Author Topic: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious  (Read 9507 times)

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Offline rf-loop

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #150 on: February 17, 2018, 09:07:41 am »
Rigol is 1.5GHz and Siglent is 3.2GHz

But here R-S both noise floors 0-1.5GHz with 30, 100 and 300kHz RBW, P-Pk detector.

S: rf-loop, R: TurboTom





Of course this is not just first parts in front end but when I see this Rigol first what I think is ... why?
But I like to see Siglent front end how it is now. I still have some mutual imagine that they have changed some, just there.



If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline TurboTom

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #151 on: February 17, 2018, 11:39:50 am »
From the plain figures, noise-wise the Rigol appears to be 10dB worse than the Siglent. But there is one little detail that may affect the relation somewhat: The Rigol DSA accepts 10dB higher signals at the mixer before producing significant distortion than the Siglent. This means, at the same signal level, you can run the Rigol with 10dB less attenuation than the Siglent which puts the noise level approximately on par. Of course, at very low signal levels, the Siglent is better off. Also, the Siglent SSA is the more modern machine with all the benefits of better semiconductors and the like. Anyway, this thread isn't covering the differences of the Rigol vs. Siglent spectrum analyzers, I just wanted to point out in my previous post that there still may be more questions than answers regarding the front-end designs.

Cheers,
Thomas
 

Offline RFDUK

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #152 on: March 04, 2018, 09:06:07 pm »
Quick update on our SSA3032X.

Several weeks on and the instrument performance on the problem spur has remained typical and stable at -71dBC.

I also measured this with the instrument coming from 12 hours in a +4 degree C environment too, immediately after switch on from cold and again -71dBC. Very happy.
Weak signal comms specialist. Very low noise amplifier & precision calibrated noise source manufacturer. Embedded antenna design services. http://www.g8fek.com  http://www.rfdesignuk.com
 

Offline trevwhite

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #153 on: March 21, 2018, 11:34:36 pm »
I had a SIGLENT SSA3021X which suffered from the input spurious problem. I had bought the unit from Batronix and contacted them. They were brilliant and said they would get the unit repaired. I commented that I did not want it repaired because I believed the original unit was sent out faulty and I did not like the idea of someone opening the unit up and messing with it. I said I would prefer a replacement new unit. They said no problem. It arrived today.

This kind of service is great and makes me want to buy more from Batronix in the future. Big thumbs up to them for great after sales service.

Note I have not had chance to test the input spur yet but its a new unit.

 

Offline GDK_ATL

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #154 on: March 21, 2018, 11:51:32 pm »
Please let us know how it is.

I'm still trying to decide if it's worth returning my unit. If I do, it looks like it'll have to go to the Siglent facility in Ohio, as Saelig seems to want to pass the buck to them, instead of replacing the unit, which not only doesn't meet the spec, but was delivered with a loose part rattling around inside.
 

Online tautech

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #155 on: March 21, 2018, 11:54:50 pm »
Please let us know how it is.

I'm still trying to decide if it's worth returning my unit. If I do, it looks like it'll have to go to the Siglent facility in Ohio, as Saelig seems to want to pass the buck to them, instead of replacing the unit, which not only doesn't meet the spec, but was delivered with a loose part rattling around inside.
Have it repaired ! Does it still rattle ?
The cause of that rattle needs be identified and reported to the production guys.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist & NZ Siglent Distributor
 

Offline GDK_ATL

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #156 on: March 22, 2018, 12:03:38 am »
Well like I said, Saelig seems to think it's not their problem. It sounds like a loose nut rattling around. If it turns out the -65dBc spec can't really be met reliably even by newly manufactured units, then I'll probably just bite the bullet, void the warranty, and open the unit to fix the loose screw myself.
 

Online tautech

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #157 on: March 22, 2018, 12:06:40 am »
Well like I said, Saelig seems to think it's not their problem. It sounds like a loose nut rattling around. If it turns out the -65dBc spec can't really be met reliably even by newly manufactured units, then I'll probably just bite the bullet, void the warranty, and open the unit to fix the loose screw myself.
Please don't open it.
It's not Saelig's problem, it's Siglent's and yes, new units meet spec.
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Offline rfspezi

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #158 on: March 22, 2018, 12:29:50 am »
I had a SIGLENT SSA3021X which suffered from the input spurious problem. I had bought the unit from Batronix and contacted them. They were brilliant and said they would get the unit repaired. I commented that I did not want it repaired because I believed the original unit was sent out faulty and I did not like the idea of someone opening the unit up and messing with it. I said I would prefer a replacement new unit. They said no problem. It arrived today.

This kind of service is great and makes me want to buy more from Batronix in the future. Big thumbs up to them for great after sales service.

Note I have not had chance to test the input spur yet but its a new unit.

Just because it's new does not mean the spurious problem is gone.
I got a replacement unit that is fabricated in Jan.2018 and it has -65,9dBc which is only 0.9dB within spec. (@22°C)!
Although i wish the device did better, i keep the unit since i am fed up sending the device back and waiting for another "try".
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #159 on: March 22, 2018, 01:10:30 am »
I had a SIGLENT SSA3021X which suffered from the input spurious problem. I had bought the unit from Batronix and contacted them. They were brilliant and said they would get the unit repaired. I commented that I did not want it repaired because I believed the original unit was sent out faulty and I did not like the idea of someone opening the unit up and messing with it. I said I would prefer a replacement new unit. They said no problem. It arrived today.

This kind of service is great and makes me want to buy more from Batronix in the future. Big thumbs up to them for great after sales service.

Note I have not had chance to test the input spur yet but its a new unit.

Just because it's new does not mean the spurious problem is gone.
I got a replacement unit that is fabricated in Jan.2018 and it has -65,9dBc which is only 0.9dB within spec. (@22°C)!
Although i wish the device did better, i keep the unit since i am fed up sending the device back and waiting for another "try".

Why -60dBc specified input related spurious in comparable Keysight SA is not problem and price is lot of higher than Siglent (and not only this detail in specs).  Yes I know Siglent need be better - other ways it is bug, issue or problem.
 ;)
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline GDK_ATL

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #160 on: March 22, 2018, 01:35:32 am »
Not sure what you're trying to say. Are you asking a question, or making a comment? Looks like maybe you are trying to say that the Keysight SA spec is only-60dBc so we have nothing to complain about with the Siglent SA. I didn't buy the Keysight unit, I bought the Siglent SA, so I'd like it to meet the published specs whether Keysight is better, worse, or whatever.
 

Offline RFDUK

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #161 on: March 22, 2018, 02:18:00 am »
Agreed GDK.
Comparison with the generic input related spurious spec of -60dBC for 'budget' SA, Keysight, Rigol and the rest is not acknowledging that this spur is ALWAYS there at ANY input frequency. I'm sure Keysight wouldn't put their name on any SA product that did that.

An occasional input related spurious that just pops up at certain frequencies at -60dBC would not be nearly so problematic as this Siglent issue.
Weak signal comms specialist. Very low noise amplifier & precision calibrated noise source manufacturer. Embedded antenna design services. http://www.g8fek.com  http://www.rfdesignuk.com
 

Offline RFDUK

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #162 on: March 22, 2018, 02:30:12 am »
Another thing ... comparing to Keysight if we must ... how does a -51dBC spurious instrument (the second one delivered here), at any input frequency, get through final functional test at the factory. Again, doubt Keysight would have delivered that.

On a positive note, the Siglent SA is fine value for money and we like it very much!
Weak signal comms specialist. Very low noise amplifier & precision calibrated noise source manufacturer. Embedded antenna design services. http://www.g8fek.com  http://www.rfdesignuk.com
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #163 on: March 22, 2018, 02:44:39 am »
Not sure what you're trying to say. Are you asking a question, or making a comment? Looks like maybe you are trying to say that the Keysight SA spec is only-60dBc so we have nothing to complain about with the Siglent SA. I didn't buy the Keysight unit, I bought the Siglent SA, so I'd like it to meet the published specs whether Keysight is better, worse, or whatever.

If your Siglent do not meet its specifications it need repair. If it meets specs (and this specification is hard limit, not "typical" value). < -65dBc measured using pure sinewave and mixer level -30dB etc.  If below this limit it is in specs and ok for this,  but this do not mean it is good or exellent in my mind. Relative to price....well..maybe...hmm...so-so.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline PP7BB

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #164 on: April 17, 2018, 10:12:32 pm »
Siglent.eu offers ssa3021x as new units with latest hardware installed (serial number above 60110). I wonder if it means that components have been changed or only aluminium block is properly manufactured...
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #165 on: April 17, 2018, 11:02:44 pm »
Siglent.eu offers ssa3021x as new units with latest hardware installed (serial number above 60110). I wonder if it means that components have been changed or only aluminium block is properly manufactured...

What components need change?
All new SSA from (https://www.siglenteu.com/)  Siglent Hamburg stock  are now just ok. In new units in stock there is all made with good aluminium blocks.  "Wrong" aluminium blocs case is history. If one have previously purchased unit with this problem contact your sewller for arrage solution for repair it.  (this previous aluminium block error what was reason for very much too high some input rerlated spurious was made in subcontractor who made these "wrong" blocks.) 
(I do not know how it is with distributor Siglent.eu  but this case have nothing to do with serial number  60110)

What is this serial number 60110 thing? Yes I know but why they still keep this information what is 2 years old information - only for generate extra confusion.
This was old case when early manufactrured some units have problem in Tracking Generator. After this serial number all manufactured units have better TG and - this is totally history today.

Today new units may have less also fixed frequencies internal spurs and also input related spurs well inside sprecifications (and I have some experience with these new ones) Better what example my old unit is. My opinion is that better than never before.

If you think Siglent.eu sell some bad units when they show this offer price. It is not, Siglent set this offer. This offer have nothing to do with previous historical problems in some old manufactutring lots.  This offer price is set from Siglent officially and it is not only one distributor as example Siglent.eu. You can see also all other distributors (In Europe) who have updated prices have this SSA3021X (not 3032X) limited time  offer between 16.4. - 30.6.2018.  Same offer  can also see example in highly reputable Batronix.
« Last Edit: April 17, 2018, 11:29:22 pm by rf-loop »
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline GDK_ATL

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #166 on: May 02, 2018, 07:31:53 am »
I just saw this https://www.extremetech.com/electronics/268629-ftc-promises-legal-action-if-warranty-voiding-stickers-arent-fixed-soon today. I originally found that my brand new SSA3032X had some loose hardware rattling around inside. It also had a problem with out of limit spurs discussed elsewhere so I had to send it back for repair. I would have taken it apart to find out what was loose first, but fear of voiding the warranty kept me from doing it. Turned out I didn't have to worry. FTC says if it cost more than $5.00 the warranty can't be voided by removing a sticker and opening up a product!
 

Offline DonRon

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #167 on: May 26, 2018, 03:56:29 am »
Hi to all!
ANd here is my experience with a "bad" unit:
Bought my SA december last year and my unit has the problem with the spurious response (only - 58 dBc).
So I asked the local dealer (Batronix) for an exchange unit. They were very helpul and asked Siglent to send a new unit. But Siglent denied and said they will repair the SA.
At first I was a little bit scared about this decision. Waiting patiently to get the unit back.
This week (after 5 weeks) I received my repaired SSA3021 and I immediately made some tests.
Works great now: spurios response is about -70 dBc and noise level is low. Seems to work a liitle bit better than some of the (new) exchange units several guys reported here.

So I am really happy now and a big thumbs up for Batronix!

Cheers,

Ronald
 
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Offline GDK_ATL

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #168 on: May 26, 2018, 10:56:01 pm »
Same here. I just got my unit back a few days ago. Spur is now down 70 dBc.

One problem I'll just live with though: Occasionally, (I can't reliably reproduce it) when using the tracking generator, the TG will just stop generating a signal. Actually, it may still be generating a signal, but not in sync with the frequency sweep of the SA. I can't really tell. In any case, it acts as if the TG has stopped. Nothing I've been able to do will get it going again except turning the unit off and back on. Then it's fine. This is an infrequent occurrence so I'm just going to live with it.
 

Online tautech

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Re: SIGLENT SSA3032X input related spurious
« Reply #169 on: May 27, 2018, 06:15:32 am »
Same here. I just got my unit back a few days ago. Spur is now down 70 dBc.

One problem I'll just live with though: Occasionally, (I can't reliably reproduce it) when using the tracking generator, the TG will just stop generating a signal. Actually, it may still be generating a signal, but not in sync with the frequency sweep of the SA. I can't really tell. In any case, it acts as if the TG has stopped. Nothing I've been able to do will get it going again except turning the unit off and back on. Then it's fine. This is an infrequent occurrence so I'm just going to live with it.
The latest FW apparently addresses this TG issue.
See here:
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-ssa3000x-spectrum-analyzers/msg1504198/#msg1504198

A couple of posts earlier I provide the FW link.
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