Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog

[pantelei4]

New SHS1000 and SHS800 series firmware is now available on Siglent websites.
Release Date 06.07.18

Yes! I installed the new firmware successfully. The most important bug with bad work in normal and single modes is fixed.
- Single mode, the long memory runs correctly, it's very encouraging.
- Normal mode, long memory does not work, but you can agree with this.
- In all modes, the captured waveforms are scaled correctly.
Finally, the device can be used. Siglent corrected his mistakes, it pleases.

[pantelei4]

New bug. In the normal mode, automatic measurements do not work correctly. If you scale previously captured signal  Volt / div, Time / div,  the measured values change in proportion to the scale factor. When you update the screen with a new captured waveform, automatic measurements are corrected.

[pantelei4]

3. Multimeter Trend. Seemed to work fine at first but then if you move the cursor around you get peaks in the trend which you can reproduce (see BMP below testing a battery) Also when trying the other keys you can get the 4.181V i was measuring to instantly turn into 4.181mV or even 100K ohms!!!

The recorder's bugs are not fixed.
At me instead of mV, kOm too jumps with new firmware, nothing has changed.
Screenshot multimeter trend plot, voltage in the absence of the probe and moving the cursor during their measurements.
Skope trend also does not work as expected. 
Probably we have little to put Siglent face in the shit, so that they fix all the bugs.

[DazA1]

Just to update other users of these scopes, it seems my SHS1062 has been bricked after some very helpful assistance from Jason at Siglent i have been trying to reset the scope following their procedure (lots & lots of presses of the SCOPE button). 60 plus attempts and i got nothing, at power on i get one relay click and nothing (should be another 3 second later) guessing it's not getting far enough in the boot sequence.

Originally I was quoted a price to fix the scope because i have had it for 4 years, later this was changed to a free repair (i was to pay the shipping). The fact that Siglent even thought i should pay to fix the scope bricked by their firmware update says a lot about how the owners of the SHS portable scopes are seen by them. I am sure that their bench top equipment is very good but i would just ask those Siglent users would they put up with a function on their scope that ignored the probe attenuation settings completely? (the SHS Scope trend function) I ask because it has only just been fixed in this 2018 update (I also own the SHS806 bought 2012). I would say it's not really a bug it just completely ignores your probe settings that's all.

I have been a loyal user of these scopes since 2012, i have made a lot of excuses for the short comings in the firmware of these units over that time, even documenting and sending them direct to Siglent. Their lack of interest and partial firmware fixes (see the Scope trend probe issue above) always annoyed me but now that their firmware has bricked my scope (btw an update i was really looking forward to using) and the fact they were going to charge me to fix it means i am out of patience and more importantly out of trust with Siglent.

One good thing to come out of this is that i now appreciate the value of trust in your equipment, Its amazing how quickly you lose it.

@Pantelei4
Just by playing around with my successfully updated SHS806 i have found at least 3 bugs in the new firmware.

I am now looking at the Fluke 120 & 190 series of portable scopes.

Thanks Darren.

[autko]

Hello,

have two question:

1) I'm interested in SDM3045X but in the review below a serious bug was shown (58min):
 

Was the issue of DC measurement with AC signal present (ie. supply voltage with AC ripple) sorted out?

2) I do own SDS1072CML (note- without the plus sign at the end and was looking for firmware update as there are some issues with the scope (ie. with the stability of the trace). On the Siglent web page I see only firmware for SDS1000CML+ series: will it  suit my equipment?

[tautech]

Hello,

have two question:

1) I'm interested in SDM3045X but in the review below a serious bug was shown (58min):

Was the issue of DC measurement with AC signal present (ie. supply voltage with AC ripple) sorted out?

2) I do own SDS1072CML (note- without the plus sign at the end and was looking for firmware update as there are some issues with the scope (ie. with the stability of the trace). On the Siglent web page I see only firmware for SDS1000CML+ series: will it  suit my equipment?

Welcome to the forum.

No, you must use the pre Plus CML version.
It's on the Shenzhen website.
http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P32.rar

I can only see one new FW version for SDM3045X and the changelog does not mention any changes to measurement accuracy but sometimes these things are not stated but repaired anyway. We'd need to ask tech support at ask the product manager.

[autko]

Hello,

thank you Tautech for immediate reply

No, you must use the pre Plus CML version.
It's on the Shenzhen website.
http://old.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/firmware/SDS1000CML_SSP_V100R005B01D02P32.rar

Although it's 3am here in PL I decided to make a quick firmware update and... it helped significantly- thanks a lot!  

I can only see one new FW version for SDM3045X and the changelog does not mention any changes to measurement accuracy but sometimes these things are not stated but repaired anyway. We'd need to ask tech support at ask the product manager.

In such a case, lets wait for the tech support

[BillB]

Hello,

have two question:

1) I'm interested in SDM3045X but in the review below a serious bug was shown (58min):
...
Was the issue of DC measurement with AC signal present (ie. supply voltage with AC ripple) sorted out?

I tried to replicate what the youtube video was showing at the 58 minute mark.  Unfortunately, I didn't have much equipment to independently verify.  The setup:

1 Siglent SDM3045X
1 Siglent SDM3055
1 Siglent SHS806
1 Siglent SDG2042X
1 Siglent SDS1104X
1 TPI 440 True RMS Scopemeter

I had the SDG generate varied .5-1 Vrms signals with 1-2 Vdc offsets at 1 KHz and 5 KHz.  All three of the Siglent DMMs behaved similarly.  The DC readings were off from the TPI meter while the AC measurements seemed OK.  I've attached some screenshots/pics of the 1Vrms+2Vdc+1KHz and 5KHz measurements from the various devices.

So, unless I'm mistaken, it seems all the Siglent DMMs still exhibit the issue (Maybe the 3065X is different?).

Edited by gnif: The image "SDS1104X-E (2VDC-1VRMS-1KHZ).png" that was attached has been removed, it was not a PNG but a Microsoft Bitmap (BMP) and crashed out this thread.

[tautech]

From tech support regarding the SDM measurement error:

For this issue, we have optimaized it in the new units. Added the filter function. Opening the filter function can remove this issue.
For the device which don't support the filter function, it needs to adjust to next bigger scale manually. It can also make the result much better.

[BillB]

Edited by gnif: The image "SDS1104X-E (2VDC-1VRMS-1KHZ).png" that was attached has been removed, it was not a PNG but a Microsoft Bitmap (BMP) and crashed out this thread.

DOH!   

I wondered what I did!  Sorry about the mess.  I thought I had converted them all as I renamed them. 

I had two more images showing the outputs on the SDS1104X, and a shot of the TPI440 also showing the correct DC measurement, but now I'm afraid to post any more pictures. 

Anyway, I'll need to double check this, but during my testing I didn't find as much of a difference between ranges as the youtuber. Also, regarding the filter, I'll re-check the 3055 with the filter applied and see if that makes any difference.  However, the 3045X doesn't have a filter. 

Finally, Siglent, please update all the EasyXXX software to save PNG images rather than bitmaps.  Thanks!

***UPDATE***
Confirmed - the 3055 filter function corrects the problem.  On both units, manually adjusting to the next scale also corrects the problem.      

[bugi]

My google-fu seems to be failing badly... or Siglent is failing badly with their marketing/info... but I just can't find any good information on the SDS2000X (or perhaps other series, too) PAS option features.

The best I could find was release notes: "Released the Power Analysis option", various sites providing the price for it, and siglent america site revealing it needs some extra hardware, too (deskew, current probe(s)). From the single screenshot I could find + the extra hardware bit + its full name (power analysis) I could deduce what it is likely meant for, but nothing about what all features it has and how it really works etc. etc.

I don't personally seem to need it, but, for the benefit for others...

Does anyone have or find links for better info about that PAS option?

[tautech]

My google-fu seems to be failing badly... or Siglent is failing badly with their marketing/info... but I just can't find any good information on the SDS2000X (or perhaps other series, too) PAS option features.

The best I could find was release notes: "Released the Power Analysis option", various sites providing the price for it, and siglent america site revealing it needs some extra hardware, too (deskew, current probe(s)). From the single screenshot I could find + the extra hardware bit + its full name (power analysis) I could deduce what it is likely meant for, but nothing about what all features it has and how it really works etc. etc.

I don't personally seem to need it, but, for the benefit for others...

Does anyone have or find links for better info about that PAS option?

The latest User manual has a section on PAS starting on P192-218/242.
https://www.siglenteu.com/download/2615/

Should offer all you need to get up and running.

Just packed my 2304X away but the internal Help files should have something in the unit for quick ref.

Edit
The only additional HW required is a current probe for some of the PAS measurement reports.
There's also an optional deskew PCB fixture to null the probe propagation delays.
https://www.siglenteu.com/accessory/df2001a/

[markus_jlrb]

Dear Siglent support staff,

I have a problem to understand why my signal measured
always change his zero level on the screen, see my attachments.
I had played arround with tdr measurements on coax cables.
Although I use the DC level for my CH1 the signals from
terminated, short and open state always change there base line.
Why? I expect all three sigs to be on the same zero base line.
It's looks like AC coupling is still enabeled for me.

Had I made an error in device control settings or has the fw
a problem with proper level drawing.

Thanks for helpful explanation on this issue and please
appologise if I'm wrong.

Markus a SDS2204C user.

[tautech]

Check Trigger level and Trigger Holdoff relationships is all that springs to mind.

[markus_jlrb]

@tautech,

thanks for your prompt replay.
As you could see in the upper right corner of my screen dump,
the trigger level is always the same and my trigger coupling is
selected as DC. So I have no explanation for the level shift.
But I have found lest week some minor fw errors, concerning
Measurements selections. Im my case a selection of Amplitude
to be displayed. But as you could see in my attachment, when
selecting the type button to select the Parameter to be displayed
(Amplitude), sometimes not always, the selection is negated.
So this observation let ma arise the question if other selections
could be negated - means selecting DC coupeling the HW is
switching to AC coupling and vice versa.

Just a hint but not knowing if I'm right with my assumption.

Thanks for further clarification on this issue.

Markus

[tautech]

Markus, that's weird !
Just to check, are you running latest FW: 1.2.2.2R10 ?

Please reinstall it as your mods might have something to do with the unexpected behavior. 
I'll get my 2304X out after dinner and do some checks for you.
If I find anything I'll come back with an edit.

[markus_jlrb]

In addition to my previous posting a second question concerning the
measure functions arise and need please clarification.
It's a minor issue but nasty and perhaps not necessary.
I attached tow pictures showing a measure cycle of a signal (tri-
angle - 50kHz) that was stretched in the second picture by a higher
time base adjustment. The first pic shows three periods and the
second pic only a bit more then one period.
In both cases in the right upper corner the proper frequency is displayed,
but the measurement displayed in the upper left corner of the second
pic. is not able to show the frequency value (only **** is displayed).

What is the explanation for this behavior? In one case frequency could
be detected (algorithm for upper right corner) in the second case not.

Thanks for plausible explanation on this point.

Markus
 

[markus_jlrb]

@tautech,

I will check with the orig fw. But my Amplitude selection problem
was definitively run under the last available fw.

Give you feedback tonight and thanks for additional effort .

Markus

[tautech]

In addition to my previous posting a second question concerning the
measure functions arise and need please clarification.
It's a minor issue but nasty and perhaps not necessary.
I attached tow pictures showing a measure cycle of a signal (tri-
angle - 50kHz) that was stretched in the second picture by a higher
time base adjustment. The first pic shows three periods and the
second pic only a bit more then one period.
In both cases in the right upper corner the proper frequency is displayed,
but the measurement displayed in the upper left corner of the second
pic. is not able to show the frequency value (only **** is displayed).

What is the explanation for this behavior? In one case frequency could
be detected (algorithm for upper right corner) in the second case not.

Thanks for plausible explanation on this point.

Markus

Study this thread for understanding on DSO measurement inaccuracies:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/testing-dso-auto-measurements-accuracy-across-timebases/

In brief some measurements are affected by the # of waveform periods displayed.
This is normal to some degree for many scopes that measure from the display.

For the previous Amplitude measurement selection issue I have zero problem selecting and de-selecting any measurements. As suggested, reinstall FW.

[markus_jlrb]

@tautech,

I know the problem with to short signal interval for propper
measurements calculations. But I'm wondering why in this
case the proper frequency is displayed in the top right corner.
If it would be a general problem both values have to be unknown.
And you know that the DSO stores more samples then displayed
at screen (memory depth) so there is more points available to
calculate frequency or period or other parameters from the
taken data.

So sorry to say but I'm not really happy with your explanation ;-)

Markus

[tautech]

@tautech,

I know the problem with to short signal interval for propper
measurements calculations. But I'm wondering why in this
case the proper frequency is displayed in the top right corner.
If it would be a general problem both values have to be unknown.
And you know that the DSO stores more samples then displayed
at screen (memory depth) so there is more points available to
calculate frequency or period or other parameters from the
taken data.

So sorry to say but I'm not really happy with your explanation ;-)

Markus

AFAIK the HW frequency counter measures from the trigger path.

What you see is normal 2000X behavior and how you use the DSO determines the result.
Know your equipment. 

[markus_jlrb]

@tautech,

"What you see is normal 2000X behavior"

For me it's "What you see is 2000X behavior",
but this is not normal - It's confusing and is not
consequent - sorry.

That's the reason why we discussing such issues
in this and other blogs in order to change this
"normal behavior" to "not acceptable behavior"

Just my opinion.

Markus 

[tautech]

@tautech,

"What you see is normal 2000X behavior"

For me it's "What you see is 2000X behavior",
but this is not normal - It's confusing and is not
consequent - sorry.

That's the reason why we discussing such issues
in this and other blogs in order to change this
"normal behavior" to "not acceptable behavior"

Just my opinion.

Markus

Is the Measure selection problem fixed after re-installing FW ?

I respectfully suggest you spend some time checking measurement accuracy with a known sig gen and at various timebase settings so to get to know and understand your scope.
Just my opinion. 

[markus_jlrb]

@tautech,

I could do the requested verification with the orig fw today evening.
But I will also make some comparison with the 20 year old HP54503A
DSO as well with my 10 year old HMO3524 in order to check if this
behavior is really "normal" ;-)

Give you a feedback tonight.

Markus
 

[StillTrying]

I had played around with tdr measurements on coax cables. Although I use the DC level for my CH1 the signals from terminated, short and open state always change there base line.
Why? I expect all three sigs to be on the same zero base line.

Are you sure your tdr traces are not riding on top of a lower frequency such as 50Hz mains ripple.