Author Topic: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog  (Read 227309 times)

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Offline kvd

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #950 on: December 14, 2017, 09:35:28 am »
Maybe I should have made myself more clear:

The actual probe attenuation is not visible in the main display. Of course I know that you can find the attenuation in the channel menu, but I'd prefer it to be permanently visible on the main screen. Permanently visible instead of the input impedance, which is always 1M anyways.

See the attached pictures:

actual: this is the actual screen as it is now with the latest firmware. It shows impedance but not attenuation
wish: this is a copy from one of the sds1000 manuals, where it shows the attenuation in the channel display, and also the impedance
text: this is the text from the latest manual which seems to apply to the sds1202x-e

 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #951 on: December 14, 2017, 09:56:05 am »
Maybe I should have made myself more clear:

The actual probe attenuation is not visible in the main display. Of course I know that you can find the attenuation in .....
You are quite clear.....to me anyway.

Not at all an unreasonable request so I'll shoot it through to Tech support and see if Siglent will add it in FW.
Of course large attenuation factors will be hard to find room to display on the ch tab and it may be a reason why it is not implemented in the channel tab.
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Offline kcbrown

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #952 on: December 14, 2017, 10:16:03 am »
Maybe I should have made myself more clear:

The actual probe attenuation is not visible in the main display. Of course I know that you can find the attenuation in .....
You are quite clear.....to me anyway.

Not at all an unreasonable request so I'll shoot it through to Tech support and see if Siglent will add it in FW.
Of course large attenuation factors will be hard to find room to display on the ch tab and it may be a reason why it is not implemented in the channel tab.
Maybe display the attenuation in dB?



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Offline skander36

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #953 on: December 15, 2017, 07:05:23 pm »
This ^ is being looked at in greater depth. Thanks for bring it to Siglents attention.
Thanks !
They will sending me a new mainboard as soon as in Hamburg will arrive the new boards (next month).
It seems that Siglent really care about customers .  :-+

Yesterday I received the new mainboard (a green one instead of red) that greatly improve the accuracy of the autosetup function from 30% to  75-80 % success .
The 2 capacitors missing (compensation issue) was already soldered in place .
Now the using experience of this scope is greatly improved .
The communication with Siglent Europe support (Michael Zeng)  was very pleasant and helpfull .

ERRATA - After self calibration I was able to obtain a very good rate of succes , 98-99% , so in my opinion the problem is completely solved . It was just a defective main board .
I was not doing of self cal. initially because it was told me that the board is tested and calibrated which was seem to be . But it seem that is a good idea to do a calibration after install on a new bench .
« Last Edit: December 17, 2017, 10:23:49 am by skander36 »
 

Online borjam

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #954 on: December 15, 2017, 09:28:05 pm »
Maybe display the attenuation in dB?
That would be very counterintuitive. The x1, x10 thing (when speaking of probes) has now become second nature for all of us I guess.

 
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Offline dpenev

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #955 on: January 02, 2018, 07:26:38 am »
Hello,

SDG6022X (it may affect older families as well?)
I am not sure if this was reported already
 
- output1 = ch1 + ch2
- ch2 adjust frequency but this doesn't affect the output signal
- output 1 off and then on => all is OK now.

 

Offline df8jb

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #956 on: January 04, 2018, 05:00:02 pm »
Hello all,

I'm Klaus from Germany and I am new to this forum.
I've only got my 1202X-E from Batronix for a week now and there seems to be an odd behaviour when positioning the zero lines up and down the screen.
The problem is most obvious on the zero center line:

CH1 and CH2 set to 500uV/div, Coupling = GND, Trigger = Auto (obviously).

CH2 set to zero by pressing position knob
CH2 switched off
CH1 zeroed by pressing position knob:
CH1 yellow line matches position of yellow arrow

CH2 switched on:
CH1 line jumps down 200uV leaving the arrow in place.

CH2 switched off again:
CH1 jumps back to correct position

There are random offsets jumps between lines and arrows (both channels)  when positioning manually as well, most noticeable on the lower part of the screen.
With settings of 1mV/div and 2mV/div offsets are less, and not noticeable with all other higher settings.

Seems to be a problem with analog front end amp compensation/linearity.
Can anybody see a similar behaviour on their scope or is it only mine doing this?

Regards, Klaus
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #957 on: January 04, 2018, 05:57:26 pm »
I have one of the earliest SDS1202X-E, HW Version 0c-01

I was not able to replicate your observation.

I have also tried to position CH1 at the bottom of the screen (-4 div) and there is indeed an additional offset error of some -200µV, even when the input coupling is set to GND. But this does not change at all whether CH2 is turned on or off.

Even with DC coupling for CH1, I could not spot any difference in position when turning CH2 on or off.

You should be prepared to see minor differences between single/dual channel use, especially at fast timebases, because the sample rate doubles in single channel mode. But at 500µs/div this could hardly have an impact.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #958 on: January 04, 2018, 06:12:16 pm »
Hello all,

I'm Klaus from Germany and I am new to this forum.
I've only got my 1202X-E from Batronix for a week now and there seems to be an odd behaviour when positioning the zero lines up and down the screen.
The problem is most obvious on the zero center line:

CH1 and CH2 set to 500uV/div, Coupling = GND, Trigger = Auto (obviously).

CH2 set to zero by pressing position knob
CH2 switched off
CH1 zeroed by pressing position knob:
CH1 yellow line matches position of yellow arrow

CH2 switched on:
CH1 line jumps down 200uV leaving the arrow in place.

CH2 switched off again:
CH1 jumps back to correct position

There are random offsets jumps between lines and arrows (both channels)  when positioning manually as well, most noticeable on the lower part of the screen.
With settings of 1mV/div and 2mV/div offsets are less, and not noticeable with all other higher settings.

Seems to be a problem with analog front end amp compensation/linearity.
Can anybody see a similar behaviour on their scope or is it only mine doing this?

Regards, Klaus
Please check the System status reports firmware version V5.1.3.13

If not it can be downloaded here:
http://siglenteu.com/gjjrj-xq.aspx?id=3932&tid=15

Please run the internal Self Cal even if the above version is installed and/or after installing V5.1.3.13
Ensure no probes are connected while Self Cal is in progress.

Please report your progress here after checking all of the above.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist & NZ Siglent Distributor
 

Offline df8jb

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #959 on: January 05, 2018, 12:39:36 am »
Thanks for answering!

I'm aware I have to accept minor deviations when changing ranges, but I think the arrow should go with the trace.
(on my old CR scopes there are trimpots for each channel to compensate for component aging and such things)

I forgot to mention:
before posting I checked the FW version: 5.1.3.13 and did
Self Cal as well - no joy.

Hardware Version is 0c-01
Serial# is SDS1EBAQ1R3154
(Calibrating the inputs to the probes works ok)

What bothers me most is the effect of CH2 when activated on the CH1-offset (when at center zero div line).
See the screen shots.

Klaus
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #960 on: January 05, 2018, 01:40:31 am »
I'm aware I have to accept minor deviations when changing ranges, but I think the arrow should go with the trace.
(on my old CR scopes there are trimpots for each channel to compensate for component aging and such things)

The arrow shows the nominal position and any deviation from that is just the offset error. Of course we would like it to be zero, but all equipment have offset errors, particularly DSOs with such a high sensitivity of 500µV/div like the SDS1202X-E.

For ranges 500µV and 1mV per division, the datasheet specifies the offset error as follows:

±(1% x Offset + 1.5% x 8 x div + 500µV)

The vertical position control actually adds an internal offset to the channel in order to change the trace position. This way, a DC offset of the signal can be cancelled out for instance.

If the trace is centered on the screen (position 0, equivalent to internal offset 0), only the second term applies: 1.5% x 8 x div + 500µV, where div is the channel gain setting. So for 500µV/div we get:

1.5% x 8 x 500µV + 500µV = 1.5% x 4mV + 500µV = 60µV + 500µV = 560µV.

This means, up to 560µV of deviation would still be in spec with the trace at position 0, i.e. the center position.

If the position control is used to apply an internal offset, thus changing the trace position, the first term of the specification comes into effect as well: 1% x Offset. So if we position the trace at the bottom of the screen, the offset is 4 divisions or 4 x 500µV = 2mV and an additional error of 20µV (1% of 2mV) has to be added to the permissible offset error, resulting in a total of ±580µV.

Yes, analog scopes have internal trimmers – and they used to be expensive, partly because someone at the factory had to adjust all these trimmers. These adjustments were not completely stable with time and temperature either. And then, most analog scopes had a maximum sensitivity of 5mV/div and could only go down to 1mV/div with an additional 5x multiplier, which introduced additional errors – just look at the specifications of your analog scope. You just don’t see it so clearly during practical use, because there is usually no indicator (arrow) where the trace should be on an analog scope.

Quote
I forgot to mention:
before posting I checked the FW version: 5.1.3.13 and did
Self Cal as well - no joy.

Why was self-cal no joy?

Quote
What bothers me most is the effect of CH2 when activated on the CH1-offset (when at center zero div line).
See the screen shots.

Yes, with these symptoms, your scope has to be faulty. Just send the unit back for replacement.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
EDIT: I thought I’d add some more information on the offset error specification.

Some might ask why that first term in the formula

±(1% x Offset + 1.5% x 8 x div + 500µV)

even exists, when it just added negligible 20µV to the 560µV of the 2nd term in the example calculation.

The answer is that the offset range is much wider than just the ±4 divisions of the screen. It is actually up to ±2V (for the gain ranges discussed here, i.e. 500uV and 1mv/div) and if this is used to cancel out a DC offset of the signal, the error margin becomes significant.

Consider an offset of 500mV, then the additional error could be as much as 5mV (1% of 500mV) and the trace might not even be within the visible screen area anymore.

Thankfully, the actual accuracy is much higher than that. See the screenshot below, where an accurate 500mV DC voltage is fed into channel 1 and a -500mV has been set on that channel.


SDS1202X-E_Offset_500mV_500uV

20MHz bandwidth limit and 16x average acquisition mode has been used in order to suppress the noise from the scope and the DC calibrator.

As can be seen, the trace is right at the center of the screen and all the automatic measurements are pretty much spot-on. Since this is pure DC, Max, Top, Mean and RMS measurements should all give identical results, and they certainly do. The most “inaccurate” results are from the mean and RMS measurements, and they are off by 60µV, which is only 0.012% of the total input (and also nominal offset) voltage!
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 06:43:46 am by Performa01 »
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #961 on: January 05, 2018, 02:54:15 am »
I forgot to mention:
before posting I checked the FW version: 5.1.3.13 and did
Self Cal as well - no joy.

Hardware Version is 0c-01
Serial# is SDS1EBAQ1R3154
(Calibrating the inputs to the probes works ok)

What bothers me most is the effect of CH2 when activated on the CH1-offset (when at center zero div line).
Performa01 is very experienced with these scopes so if the internal Self Cal has been properly run and the channel offsets are not corrected then yes there is a problem.
But, please do one more Self Cal with the DSO having been ON for some time. IIRC the manual calls for ~20 mins before Self Cal. If the trace offsets are not fixed then contact Siglent in Hamburg directly and point them to these EEVblog posts.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist & NZ Siglent Distributor
 

Offline df8jb

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #962 on: January 05, 2018, 04:27:21 am »
Quote
Why was self-cal no joy?

meaning
the result of Self Cal didn't solve the problem…

-----------

I did Self Cal again, this time IMMEDIATELY after a power on reboot of the warmed up scope, without having done anything else.
Now the influence of CH2 on CH1 is completely gone.
The first time I did Self Cal the scope had been running for abt 2 hours
with me testing a lot until I saw the strange behaviour.
Maybe something was left behind that caused Self Cal to work incorrectly…?

Anyway, I'm happy with the scope now, minor offsets at vertical screen borders are ok,
thanks to Performa01's  comprehensible explanations.

Again thanks to all of you,

regards Klaus

--
 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #963 on: January 05, 2018, 04:35:57 am »
Quote
Why was self-cal no joy?

meaning
the result of Self Cal didn't solve the problem…

-----------

I did Self Cal again, this time IMMEDIATELY after a power on reboot of the warmed up scope, without having done anything else.
Now the influence of CH2 on CH1 is completely gone.
The first time I did Self Cal the scope had been running for abt 2 hours
with me testing a lot until I saw the strange behaviour.
Maybe something was left behind that caused Self Cal to work incorrectly…?

Anyway, I'm happy with the scope now, minor offsets at vertical screen borders are ok,
thanks to Performa01's  comprehensible explanations.

Again thanks to all of you,

regards Klaus

--
Good result.  :-+

This is maybe something we need watch for so to understand better.
Maybe Default setup is required before Self Cal to ensure the Self Cal is completed correctly.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist & NZ Siglent Distributor
 

Offline Performa01

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #964 on: January 05, 2018, 06:45:32 am »
... added some more info on the offset error specification to my reply #960.
 

Offline Electro Detective

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #965 on: January 05, 2018, 04:02:03 pm »
There's always the Hardwear Reset on these if all else fails and try avoid the nuthouse   |O

I prefer to use it BEFORE doing updates in case the DSO isn't quite right

www.siglentamerica.com/operating-tips/

www.siglentamerica.com/operating-tips/sds1000xx-series/


"Oscilloscope Hardware Reset:  October 25, 2017

In some extreme hardware errors, the oscilloscope may become unresponsive or “hang” during the boot sequence.

If your oscilloscope is frozen, will not boot, or appears to be unresponsive, you can attempt a hardware reset by following these instructions:

1. Disconnect all USB, LAN, and input cables. Leave the power cord connected.

2. Power cycle the instrument by pressing the power button.

3. Immediately begin pressing the MATH button repeatedly at a rate of 2 to 3 times a second while the instrument boots up.

4. If the instrument does not boot up properly, retry steps 2 through 4.

NOTE: If you continue to have problems, contact your nearest SIGLENT office for service." 
 

Offline toomuchesr

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #966 on: January 14, 2018, 02:25:01 am »
Hi!

Will the SDS1104X-E have LXI in the future? As far as I can tell there is currently only VXI11 supported.

BR
 

Offline lundmar

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #967 on: January 14, 2018, 04:15:39 am »
Hi!

Will the SDS1104X-E have LXI in the future? As far as I can tell there is currently only VXI11 supported.

BR

It is not LXI certified but it is however fully LXI compatible so I don't think you are missing anything except the LXI sticker.

I've recently tested the SDS1204X-E with lxi-tools and I can say it features the fastest LXI interfaces that I have seen so far (SCPI/RAW, SCPI/VXI11).

I've written about it here (includes benchmark results etc.):
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/open-source-lxi-tools-and-liblxi-v1-0-released-for-gnulinux/msg1394796/#msg1394796
https://lxi-tools.github.io - Open source LXI tools
https://tio.github.io - A simple TTY terminal I/O application
http://dc-power-supply.github.io - OSHW DC power supply project
 
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Offline mojoe

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #968 on: January 14, 2018, 01:20:11 pm »
I bought two SPD3303X-E power supplies when they first came out. Because of the loose fitting banana jacks, I have been using some spade-to-banana adapters. This works, but makes it difficult to place the power supply on a shelf or table - the adapters hang downward.

I thought that I read elsewhere on the forum, that later supplies had tighter fitting banana jacks. Is it possible to have two sets of the better fitting jacks sent to me, so I can replace them myself?

Thanks.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #969 on: January 14, 2018, 01:33:42 pm »
I bought two SPD3303X-E power supplies when they first came out. Because of the loose fitting banana jacks, I have been using some spade-to-banana adapters. This works, but makes it difficult to place the power supply on a shelf or table - the adapters hang downward.

I thought that I read elsewhere on the forum, that later supplies had tighter fitting banana jacks. Is it possible to have two sets of the better fitting jacks sent to me, so I can replace them myself?

Thanks.
We'll see if it's possible.
Emails sent.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist & NZ Siglent Distributor
 

Online pantelei4

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #970 on: January 14, 2018, 07:36:26 pm »
A year has passed since my report on Siglent SHS806.
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-technical-support-join-in-eevblog/msg1105079/?PHPSESSID=d6ud1u86e6cle7t4il76qdfgop#msg1105079
What is this shitty company, no answers, no firmware?
 

Offline StillTrying

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #971 on: January 15, 2018, 12:54:30 pm »
"A year has passed since my report on Siglent SHS806."

I know the feeling, I think you have to be lucky and get something that they don't give up on.

Offline DazA1

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #972 on: January 15, 2018, 10:47:31 pm »
"A year has passed since my report on Siglent SHS806."

I have had the same frustration with Siglent regarding these scopes i even wrote up my problems in a pdf (see post #934).

Apparently Siglent see the handheld scope market as a growing area and are looking to produce more handheld products in the future.
 

Offline toomuchesr

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #973 on: January 16, 2018, 12:29:10 am »
I've recently tested the SDS1204X-E with lxi-tools and I can say it features the fastest LXI interfaces that I have seen so far (SCPI/RAW, SCPI/VXI11).

I've written about it here (includes benchmark results etc.):
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/open-source-lxi-tools-and-liblxi-v1-0-released-for-gnulinux/msg1394796/#msg1394796

Thanks a lot, will have a look!

BR
 

Online Siglent America

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Re: Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog
« Reply #974 on: January 17, 2018, 04:11:37 am »
I bought two SPD3303X-E power supplies when they first came out. Because of the loose fitting banana jacks, I have been using some spade-to-banana adapters. This works, but makes it difficult to place the power supply on a shelf or table - the adapters hang downward.

I thought that I read elsewhere on the forum, that later supplies had tighter fitting banana jacks. Is it possible to have two sets of the better fitting jacks sent to me, so I can replace them myself?

Thanks.

Hello, Mojoe.
I sent you a PM but haven't seen it go through yet.
Either way, please contact us at
info@Siglent.com
and we will get you the later-version banana jacks.
Thanks
Steve
 
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