Siglent Technical Support join in EEVblog

[rf-loop]

Update instructions
Very important!
Version5.1.3.13 optimizes self-calibration for the each channel. Perform a self-calibration once if the machine is updated from any version <5.1.3.13

After oscilloscope warm up least 30 minutes, do self cal and of course nothing connected to any input BNC's.

Yes, I read the instructions and performed the self-calibration after the update as described.

But anyway, I don't have an issue with the accuracy of the measured samples. The voltage readings seem ok on the measure/statistics display and on the grid. It is the cursor display and don't see the technical reason why the cursors should be affected by the self-calibration or by the accuracy of the analog front-end since they are just a display feature for reading plotted values.

After you note that you do not at all mean signal accuracy and you just mean cursor positions error I download your images and change image gamma so that I can clearly see your images display graticule on my monitor I can immediately see problem.

For look this problem there do not need any signal - this also keep thinking out from signal levels and focusing thinking just for cursors positions. Just enough bright display graticule and vertical (Y) cursors.

I have now seen it with my SDS1202X-E and I can confirm, there is problem in this FW 5.1.3.13

I will later try test more about it. This error do not exists with all setups. Need more investigations.

I will later continue more my tests and I will report it to Siglent after I have done test enough for sufficiently extensive documentation.

This is clearly FW error and it need repair in next possible FW where this fix can schedule. This is clearly FW bug and it need repair in next possible FW where this fix is possible to schedule.

Thank you for the good finding and the emergence of it

[rf-loop]

Update instructions
Very important!
Version5.1.3.13 optimizes self-calibration for the each channel. Perform a self-calibration once if the machine is updated from any version <5.1.3.13

After oscilloscope warm up least 30 minutes, do self cal and of course nothing connected to any input BNC's.

Yes, I read the instructions and performed the self-calibration after the update as described.

But anyway, I don't have an issue with the accuracy of the measured samples. The voltage readings seem ok on the measure/statistics display and on the grid. It is the cursor display and don't see the technical reason why the cursors should be affected by the self-calibration or by the accuracy of the analog front-end since they are just a display feature for reading plotted values.

After you note that you do not at all mean signal accuracy and you just mean cursor positions error I download your images and change image gamma so that I can clearly see your images display graticule on my monitor I can immediately see problem.

For look this problem there do not need any signal - this also keep thinking out from signal levels and focusing thinking just for cursors positions. Just enough bright display graticule and vertical (Y) cursors.

I have now seen it with my SDS1202X-E and I can confirm, there is problem in this FW 5.1.3.13

I will later try test more about it. This error do not exists with all setups. Need more investigations.

I will later continue more my tests and I will report it to Siglent after I have done test enough for sufficiently extensive documentation.

This is clearly FW error and it need repair in next possible FW where this fix can schedule. This is clearly FW bug and it need repair in next possible FW where this fix is possible to schedule.

Thank you for the good finding and the emergence of it

This error math/logic  is quite simple and clear now.
Error is that if channel offset is other than 0V and probe multiplier other than 1X there is error in Y1 and Y2 levels. Cursors Y Delta is not affected.

In FW 5.1.3.13 changelog we can see they have touched cursors.

1. Cursor values not correct if probe attenuation was not set to 1X
7. Corrected cursor measurements for active Zoom with FFT
10. Fixed decode threshold levels for 10X probe attenuation selection.

Somehow they have forget one thing - unbelievable mistake. They have forget channel offset voltage correction with probe multiplier for calculate cursors vertical levels.   

Cursors have positions relative to display center line. If signal offset is 0 then vertical level in center line is 0V.

For cursors Y1 and Y2 voltage values relative to signal zero there need subtract vertical offset value from Y values for show correct Y1 and Y2 values. Delta Y value is not affected, it looks like always ok.

Error is now that when probe multiplier is what ever other than 1X they still subtract vertical offset value from Y1 and Y2 as it is if probe multiplier is 1X. 
Example:

1.
 if set scope for 1X probe mult, vertical V/div 10mV and user set 0mV vertical offset (vert. center).  Then cursors are set for Y2 +30mV and Y1 -30mV. Cursors display Delta Y 60mV and Y1 -30mV and Y2 +30mV. All is ok.
All is ok also if now change probe multiplier from 0.1X to 10000X.  All is ok with this error only because vertical offset is zero. Subtracting 0 from Y1 and Y2 values do not show error. As long as Vertical offset is 0 it do not show this error what is now inside FW.

2.
Continue with same settings. Keep other settings untouched but change only probe multiplier to value 10X
Now cursors Delta Y display 600mV and Y2 300mV and Y1 -300mV.  Just as told also in example 1.

Then, do not touch any other settings but adjust channel Vertical position one div up to value +100mV.
Cursor Delta Y display now 600mV and this is ok. Cursor Y2 display 290mV. Cursor Y1 display -310mV and this is wrong. Wrong because added offset is still as it is if probe multiplier is 1X.
(in this example 2. offset is 10mV if probe mult is 1X)

This error continue without exceptions with all vertical offset and probe multiplier values.
It can try also using under 1X probe multiplier and result is fun but still follow exactly this explanation about error math/logic.

[clippo]

I will later try test more about it. This error do not exists with all setups. Need more investigations.

The error is systematic. It only occurs in the x10 probe channel setting and with a vertical position not equal to 0 V. Somehow the cursor offset is calculated with a x1 probe factor instead of x10. I attached some more plots where you can see that with +/- 1 V vertical position the cursor value differs only by +/-100 mV instead of +/-1 V. The Y2-Y1 difference seems to be correct.

See also another cursor measurement related post:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds-1202x-e-cursor-measurement/msg1221469/

I will later continue more my tests and I will report it to Siglent after I have done test enough for sufficiently extensive documentation.
This is clearly FW error and it need repair in next possible FW where this fix can schedule. This is clearly FW bug and it need repair in next possible FW where this fix is possible to schedule.
Thank you for the good finding and the emergence of it

Thank you for support and investigative help!

[rf-loop]

It is in my previous message. Perhaps you did not see it before you write yours.

This IS systematic error as told and it exist with all probe multiplier except 1X if also channel vertical offset is other than 0V.

But thank you, this error has come to light and is recognized now.
Also the error operation is now defined.

This need now urgently include to the FW development / correction queue with severe and  urgent flag.

[clippo]

It is in my previous message. Perhaps you did not see it before you write yours.

Yes, I saw your message afterwards. Basically, I confirmed what you already have analyzed and reported

This IS systematic error as told and it exist with all probe multiplier except 1X if also channel vertical offset is other than 0V.

You're right, it's not only with x10 multiplier as I mistakenly mentioned above.

This need now urgently include to the FW development / correction queue with severe and  urgent flag.

I absolutely agree. Cursors are a fundamental and important scope function and this bug should be fixed with a high priority.

Are you in direct contact with the FW team and will you report this bug to them?

General question (since I'm a newbie):
Which is the best way to report such kind of issues towards the OEM - is it this forum or is there any better way?

[rf-loop]

Are you in direct contact with the FW team and will you report this bug to them?

General question (since I'm a newbie):
Which is the best way to report such kind of issues towards the OEM - is it this forum or is there any better way?

I do not use direct contacts with FW development team. But if I report this kind of things to Siglent officer they go to FW tream.  I will report this directly to Shenzhen office.

Also, I know that Siglent some peoples read this forum.

When they repaired previously cursors I must say that they have done really neglectful check/test before launch new FW.  For what boss pay salary?  I think they need add some more tight reward and punishment system where the quality of work is the basis. Not only used time and how much have done but quality also in high role.

[vladi552]

I'm so sorry, but I have an issue with the SDS1202X-E. Need help. May be I'm something doing wrong.
I connect the probes to CH1 and CH2 and calibrate it by the internal SDS1202X-E generator. Please see the pics how it cal signal viewed on the screen. The shape is different for 1V/ and 2V/.
It's looking like device faulty. Or not?

[tautech]

I'm so sorry, but I have an issue with the SDS1202X-E. Need help. May be I'm something doing wrong.
I connect the probes to CH1 and CH2 and calibrate it by the internal SDS1202X-E generator. Please see the pics how it cal signal viewed on the screen. The shape is different for 1V/ and 2V/.
It's looking like device faulty. Or not?

Welcome to the forum.

Yes, it's a recently identified issue and the factory team are working on it. They hope to offer a solution this coming week.
You can see others have spotted the same issue.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-compensation-issue/

[vladi552]

Thank you for reply. I have only 12 days to create a disput on AliExpress. It's very impotant to know is there a HW or SW problem. Looking like HW.

[rf-loop]

Thank you for reply. I have only 12 days to create a disput on AliExpress. It's very impotant to know is there a HW or SW problem. Looking like HW.

FW can not affect/repair input capacitance differeces between vertical bands. Period.
It is pure HW feature.

There is small differences between separate vertical ranges input reactance. (when it change range there can hear relay click)

If you can not live with it, then simply just return it!

But,
 if this is borderline what you can accept then think carefully what are important things for you and what not. Every scope model have pros and cons. Every user have different needs and for some people one feature is much more important than some other feature. Same for some disadvantages.
Example in this price call there is no other stand alone scope what can do over 400ksegment/s  or what have always backround running history buffer  and together with 1M FFT or full speed mask test or 500uV/div true full resolution and full BW input.

But this input capacitance thing Siglent need solve.  This can accept in many cases  but it is still true lack of performance and it need develop better also so that worst case individuals are inside more tight tolerances.

It is possible that due to components tolerances some other individual scope have less this effect. Also PCB is component what have tolerances and there can be small variations with separate route input capacitance. There is not internal adjustment for match these 3 pathways input capacitance.

[borjam]

But this input capacitance thing Siglent need solve.  This can accept in many cases  but it is still true lack of performance and it need develop better also so that worst case individuals are inside more tight tolerances.

Maybe it can be solved changing some parameters in the front-end configuration?

There will be some tradeoff, for sure. Let's see what they come up with.

Whatever, please, Siglent dealers, make sure they understand that it's mandatory to have a serious description of the fix so that we can maintain a reasonable level of trust on the instrument. A magical "hey, it's solved" only to find a software kludge will be a bad idea I think.

[rf-loop]

But this input capacitance thing Siglent need solve.  This can accept in many cases  but it is still true lack of performance and it need develop better also so that worst case individuals are inside more tight tolerances.

Maybe it can be solved changing some parameters in the front-end configuration?

Yes, in hardware. In analog front end there is nothing what can do with software (for this feature). Analog front end is pure hardware. There is no software interface for change anything what affect input reactance for eliminate this "feature".  There is just some discrete components including PCB and relays.


EDIT:

Solution can find here. (Hardware modification)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1202x-e-compensation-issue/msg1333094/#msg1333094
You can find there two attachments (Instructions)

Please contact your Siglent dealer if you need any help for this! 
If you want do it yourself you need skills and tools for SMD soldering. Also work need do with good ESD practices. Do NOT yourself if you are not sure you can do it right.
Also note for front panel knobs removing.  In some units some knob may be really tight. If knob is tight do not damage encoders when you pull. Use right tools and pull just axial direction without any bending force or radial forces.

[vladi552]

Ok. The compensation problem is not all what we need to fix. You say 'Siglent tech support'? You need suggestions? We have it! Are you really ready?

I'm and my friends bought this SDS1202X-E devices on AliExpress in September 2017. We been hope, this generally the best devices in market 2017. We put our old Huntek DSO5202BM 200MHz and pack it to the rest... But once we received Siglent devices we stay to be very disapointed in fact. I talk not about powerful hardware but how the settings and measuring data are represented on the display. It's looking terrible. I prepare small pic and suggestions:
1. Small font for all measured values (4pcs max) on the bottom of the screen. It size anywhere near the 'viewing border'. Look to the Hantek decision. I can view it's data from up to 2 meter from the scope.
2. Why u place 'static' settings values (trigger opt, ch settings) at the 'right column' on the screen? This less useful against 'dynamic' measured values to be displayed.
3. The scope have totally unused space on the display. You kidding me? Horrible!
4. Most users share the scope screenshots. It is so difficult to explain them again and again what does it mean: Curr, Trig'd, DC1M and other original 'garbage'.
5. Menu ON/OFF so stupid realesed! If no menu, the screen must be zoomed in to occupier all after available screen area. As option 'right column' also can be hidden for zoom in.

My conclusion at the November 2017: the Siglent SDS1202X-E is a story how the powerful hardware leveled by a poorly designed interface.
Maybe I should unpack the Huntek? )

[tautech]

But this input capacitance thing Siglent need solve.  This can accept in many cases  but it is still true lack of performance and it need develop better also so that worst case individuals are inside more tight tolerances.

Maybe it can be solved changing some parameters in the front-end configuration?

There will be some tradeoff, for sure. Let's see what they come up with.

Whatever, please, Siglent dealers, make sure they understand that it's mandatory to have a serious description of the fix so that we can maintain a reasonable level of trust on the instrument. A magical "hey, it's solved" only to find a software kludge will be a bad idea I think.

Yes, we are expecting a detailed document of changes required. How simple or not they will be to undertake is what we are unsure of....yet.

[tautech]

Ok. The compensation problem is not all what we need to fix. You say 'Siglent tech support'? You need suggestions? We have it! Are you really ready?

I'm and my friends bought this SDS1202X-E devices on AliExpress in September 2017. We been hope, this generally the best devices in market 2017. We put our old Huntek DSO5202BM 200MHz and pack it to the rest... But once we received Siglent devices we stay to be very disapointed in fact. I talk not about powerful hardware but how the settings and measuring data are represented on the display. It's looking terrible. I prepare small pic and suggestions:
1. Small font for all measured values (4pcs max) on the bottom of the screen. It size anywhere near the 'viewing border'. Look to the Hantek decision. I can view it's data from up to 2 meter from the scope.
2. Why u place 'static' settings values (trigger opt, ch settings) at the 'right column' on the screen? This less useful against 'dynamic' measured values to be displayed.
3. The scope have totally unused space on the display. You kidding me? Horrible!
4. Most users share the scope screenshots. It is so difficult to explain them again and again what does it mean: Curr, Trig'd, DC1M and other original 'garbage'.
5. Menu ON/OFF so stupid realesed! If no menu, the screen must be zoomed in to occupier all after available screen area. As option 'right column' also can be hidden for zoom in.

My conclusion at the November 2017: the Siglent SDS1202X-E is a story how the powerful hardware leveled by a poorly designed interface.
Maybe I should unpack the Huntek? )

You don't like the UI, fine but it's been around for some years and when necessary ALL the info needed for screenshots can be incorporated. More time spent using the X-E will reveal how.
Small example:

Other models that share this UI use the vacant space to the full extent already AND without sacrificing the 14 div horizontal display.
There's a bigger picture you probably aren't aware of and when these instruments are used for more complex tasks the apparently now vacant UI IS fully utilised.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/

#1. Changes have been asked for.
#2. Will remain as it is.
#3. As #2, reasons explained above.
#4. Inexperience.
#5. When using Decode especially, it is valuable to hide menus and have the decode string accommodate that space.

There are many screenshots in threads on the forum demonstrating the UI, many are in this thread starting here and over following pages.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-sds1000x-e-oscilloscope-based-on-xilinx-zynq-7000-soc-architecture/msg1192654/#msg1192654

Maybe you can't adapt to the UI, that is OK but I urge you to spend some real time with it to see why it has been designed this way....and is still being improved upon.

[boggis the cat]

The Siglent UI is pretty good.  I would like an option to make the measurements a larger font size (eyesight deteriorating with age), and also think that there could be better utilisation of the space to the right of the trace window.  The menu area below the trace window could be reduced in height to allow for a larger measurements font, and selected measurements could be 'pinned' to the right.

Some of your complaints appear to be misunderstanding what is being presented (the frequency counter in the top right is a hardware readout, useful for sanity checking if you bork up the settings).  The Hantek has some equally inscrutable symbols in the UI, and you always have to learn what the designers have decided to use.  The Rigol series of low-end 'scopes are very successful despite having an awful UI, so it seems that most people are willing to adapt to the design choices.

[borjam]

In my opinion (I own both) the Siglent SDS1202X-E has a better UI than the Rigol DS1000Z.

Some differences are a bit subtle, but in general it's more intuitive and more meaningful functions are accessed just with a quick key press. You can enable/disable measurements or persistence, for example, just pushing the "measure" or "display/persistence" key.

I still think they should pay a bit more attention to detail but as much as I've criticized Chinese software I am impressed on how they are maturing.

[lundmar]

Does the Siglent SDS1000X/2000X series oscilloscopes support screenshot dumps via VXI/LAN?

I was looking through the programmers manual but all I could find was this sparse information:

"SCDP | SCREEN_DUMP | HARD COPY | Causes a screen dump to controller"

No mention of image format (PNG?) nor any notion that it responds with the image data to the caller.

If it does indeed support screenshot dumps via VXI/LAN I would like to know the details since I want to add screenshot support for these devices in the open source lxi-tools - https://lxi.github.io

Thanks.

[Siglent America]

Does the Siglent SDS1000X/2000X series oscilloscopes support screenshot dumps via VXI/LAN?

I was looking through the programmers manual but all I could find was this sparse information:

"SCDP | SCREEN_DUMP | HARD COPY | Causes a screen dump to controller"

No mention of image format (PNG?) nor any notion that it responds with the image data to the caller.

If it does indeed support screenshot dumps via VXI/LAN I would like to know the details since I want to add screenshot support for these devices in the open source lxi-tools - https://lxi.github.io

Thanks.

Hello.
I think we can help you but we have some questions.
Would you please email us at
info@siglent.com
Thanks

[lundmar]

Hello.
I think we can help you but we have some questions.
Would you please email us at
info@siglent.com
Thanks

I'm not sure why such question can't be answered in an open forum like this. Anyway, I've sent you an email.

[skander36]

Hi ,
I have problems with the SDS-1202X-E .
1. Autosetup function - In most cases I need to press twice this key to get properly display . First pressing I getting a small scale signal , and after second press I get a full scale as it should on first time .
This is not always happen (sometimes work from fist attempt) and is not linked to warm-up period .
2.Some times (rarely) the values measured that are displayed on bottom screen , disappeared and I need to do a self calibration to make it measure again .(interesting behavior - upper hardware counter working , but the statistics are not working , in the meantime if I press All Measured Values , they appears on-screen for a 1-2 minutes with real-time readings , after which disappear replaced by dots like statistics and the four type of measurements from bottom screen... ).

I use the last firmware - V5.1.3.13
My question is if this behavior of the autosetup is present on the others scopes  or mine is defective , because I wish to use return period for online purchasing .

Thank you !

[eurofox]

Hi ,
I have problems with the SDS-1202X-E .
1. Autosetup function - In most cases I need to press twice this key to get properly display . First pressing I getting a small scale signal , and after second press I get a full scale like it should on first time .
This is not always happen (sometimes work from fist attempt) and is not linked to warm-up period .
2.Some times (rarely) the values measured that are displayed on bottom screen , disappeared and I need to do a self calibration to make it measure again .

I use the last firmware - V5.1.3.13
My question is if this behavior of the autosetup is present on the others scopes  or mine is defective , because I wish to use return period for online purchasing .

Thank you !

I suppose it is a bug, I have the same problem with my scope.

[skander36]

I atached pics to show how the waveforms looks when autosetup fail .
On third pic one can see that at freq. over 100 MHZ the scope doesn't measure . This is happen anytime,  even when autosetup is successful . This is correct ?   
THX !

[dpenev]

Hello,

I am trying to control remotely my SSA3021X

I send SCPI command ":MMEMory:STORe PNG,print1" to the instrument but I can not find the file (in the "File" menu of the instrument).
"Save" button is printing the screen into file properly.
 
Is the :MMEMory:STORe working properly?
Do I miss something?

Thank you.

[tautech]

Hello,

I am trying to control remotely my SSA3021X

I send SCPI command ":MMEMory:STORe PNG,print1" to the instrument but I can not find the file (in the "File" menu of the instrument).
"Save" button is printing the screen into file properly.
 
Is the :MMEMory:STORe working properly?
Do I miss something?

Thank you.

From Tech support:
The command should the ':MMEMory:STORe PNG,print1.png' .  Need to add the file extension and the file will store to the local.