Author Topic: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017  (Read 83698 times)

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Offline dos

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #800 on: July 24, 2017, 04:47:11 PM »
PS I suggest a four channel model (even if it comes at cost) for two reasons: 1) differential measurements (remember all channels connected to the ground, you cannot just connect probes in arbitrary way) 2) I often have multiple DUTs it's convenient to dedicate, say, channel 4 for quick-n-dirty measurements without disconnecting probes from the main device.

Really the two analog plus one digital channel of the Keysight is fine for my uses, of course ideally I would like a 4 channel model, and I'm looking really hard at the Siglent 2102X which Saelig has on sale for just under $800. I'm just not sure I want to spend that much on a Siglent (no offense Siglent employees, insert any Chinese brand there and I feel the same)
They're a big step from CML and ~twice the physical size. To get one fully spec'ed (DC, FG, LA) will cost a lot more but you'd probably never want anything better. Yep, I have a 2304X as my personal unit.
PM me you you want to know more.

I just went back and looked and the model I was talking about that was $800 was a 2 channel, for some reason I had a brain fart yesterday. All the 4 channel models of that series are definitely out of my price range and if I was going to get a 2 channel Siglent I would spend half of $800 and get the 1202X-E. I am not sure why Siglent has a big gap of nothing where a cheap 4 channel model should be to compete with Rigol and Instek.
 

Offline tautech

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #801 on: July 24, 2017, 05:29:22 PM »
PS I suggest a four channel model (even if it comes at cost) for two reasons: 1) differential measurements (remember all channels connected to the ground, you cannot just connect probes in arbitrary way) 2) I often have multiple DUTs it's convenient to dedicate, say, channel 4 for quick-n-dirty measurements without disconnecting probes from the main device.

Really the two analog plus one digital channel of the Keysight is fine for my uses, of course ideally I would like a 4 channel model, and I'm looking really hard at the Siglent 2102X which Saelig has on sale for just under $800. I'm just not sure I want to spend that much on a Siglent (no offense Siglent employees, insert any Chinese brand there and I feel the same)
They're a big step from CML and ~twice the physical size. To get one fully spec'ed (DC, FG, LA) will cost a lot more but you'd probably never want anything better. Yep, I have a 2304X as my personal unit.
PM me you you want to know more.

I just went back and looked and the model I was talking about that was $800 was a 2 channel, for some reason I had a brain fart yesterday. All the 4 channel models of that series are definitely out of my price range and if I was going to get a 2 channel Siglent I would spend half of $800 and get the 1202X-E. I am not sure why Siglent has a big gap of nothing where a cheap 4 channel model should be to compete with Rigol and Instek.
Why would they want to if they can do better............but you'll have to wait a little bit.  ;)
Avid Rabid Hobbyist & NZ Siglent Distributor
 

Offline dos

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #802 on: July 24, 2017, 09:43:17 PM »
Well we've discussed Siglent for a while here in this Keysight thread, but to get back on topic can any owners of this scope give some feedback on it? I would really like to know if it has an intensity graded display because the datasheet makes no mention of it while the DSOX2000 series datasheet does. I know they have the same Megazoom ASIC and a very similar operation so it seems obvious that it would but who knows. I would also like to know how this scope stacks up against other low cost scopes you've used and what you think it's good and bad points are.
 

Offline Keysight DanielBogdanoff

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #803 on: July 25, 2017, 04:55:49 AM »
Hi dos,

Yes, it does have an intensity graded display. There's a button for it on the front panel right below the "entry" knob.

If you've used a 2000, 3000, 4000, or 6000 X-Series InfiniiVision oscilloscope you'll feel right at home on the 1000 X-Series.

I'll let other speak to their experience because I know that my word on the matter likely a bit skewed, but I'm always relieved to get back on the 1000 X-Series after playing around with the other low cost oscilloscopes.
 
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Offline TK

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #804 on: July 25, 2017, 07:55:43 AM »
I have both the 2000X and the EDUX1002G (1000X) and I love them.  The 1000X looks and feels like a scaled down 2000X.  UI is very responsive and knobs feel the same in both scopes.
 
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Offline FlyingHacker

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #805 on: July 25, 2017, 12:33:24 PM »
I have been using this 1000x with the wave gen for a month or two now. Overall I am happy. The probes are a bit lacking (one of them doesn't always snap back to clamp on to things when you pull back the witch's hat). I have other probes, so it is not a major concern, but that is really the biggest complaint.

I really wish I could set the trigger source more easily (front panel button or double tap the channel or something). It requires about three or four presses right now. I am used to analog scopes with a knob or switch to change the trigger source.

Would be nice to be able to set AC/DC coupling with a button. Again, something you take for granted on an analog scope. This is pretty easy on this scope, though. These are some very commonly used features that should be readily accessible, IMO.

The scope is generally quite fast. Though a big FFT will start to make is sluggish like a cheaper scope.

You only seem to be able to display a single reference waveform along with the live waveforms. Ideally you could show both. There is no warning to overwrite a reference waveform, and no undo. It is very easy to accidentally overwrite the last reference waveform you stored. If you ask me the scope should toggle the default write slot from the last saved reference waveform to the other one so that you would be less likely to do this. Perhaps a warning as well.

The grid intensity setting gets reset when you hit the Default Setup button. I need to see if I can save my own settings as the "Default Setup," but I have yet to see that feature. I like the grid much more transparent (8%).

Using this scope is almost as snappy as using an analog scope, in terms of perceived speed. I mean there is no comparison with moving a trace up and down on an analog scope, but it is pretty close.

I do find the rotary encoders have some sort of acceleration that is frequently not quite doing what I want. They are fine for basic features like moving the trace up and down, etc. it is just the interaction when setting mainly numeric values by turning the encoders.

Black or dark grey cases on scopes show dirt less (flux fingers), and make the screen appear more contrasts and easier to read (you watch a movie with the lights off).

Those are my thoughts on the 1000X. Overall I am quite satisfied. I only bring these things up in case perhaps Daniel can add them to some sort of wishlist for firmware updates.
--73
 
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Online Someone

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #806 on: July 26, 2017, 09:52:25 AM »
The scope is generally quite fast. Though a big FFT will start to make is sluggish like a cheaper scope.
I don't think it does "big" FFTs, its limited to 64k points like the other scopes in its range yes? To compare to other popular scopes:

DSOX1000 64k point FFT, 3 updates/second
DS1054Z 64k point FFT, 1 update/second

DSOX1000 1k point FFT, 60 updates/second
DS1054Z 1k point FFT, 3 updates/second
DS4000 1k point FFT, 8 updates/second
 

Offline dos

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #807 on: July 26, 2017, 11:24:49 AM »
Hi dos,

Yes, it does have an intensity graded display. There's a button for it on the front panel right below the "entry" knob.

Thanks for clearing that up. My Siglent also has an "intensity" control but of course, it only controls the uniform brightness of the entire trace so I thought it might be something like that. Is it 64 levels like the 2000 series? Also, is there a real hardware frequency counter or is it software only like on the 2000 series (pointed out in Dave's review of that model) where you must add it as a measurement and always have it's measurement cursors on the screen when it's active. Basically I'm wondering if there is something like this as I find it useful on my current scope:



Thanks to everyone who provided feedback, it was helpful.

e:

I really wish I could set the trigger source more easily (front panel button or double tap the channel or something). It requires about three or four presses right now. I am used to analog scopes with a knob or switch to change the trigger source.

This seems to be the case with a lot of digital scopes and I have no idea what's so hard about implementing it in the way you describe. It seems like a no brainer

« Last Edit: July 26, 2017, 11:28:01 AM by dos »
 

Online Someone

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #808 on: July 26, 2017, 01:21:10 PM »
is there a real hardware frequency counter or is it software only like on the 2000 series (pointed out in Dave's review of that model) where you must add it as a measurement and always have it's measurement cursors on the screen when it's active.
There was the ability to unlock the hardware "DVM" which included a 5 digit frequency counter through the DSOXDVM option:
http://www.keysight.com/en/pd-2089401-pn-DSOXDVM/integrated-digital-voltmeter-dvm-option-for-infiniivision-x-series-oscilloscopes
That runs on the input signal so it still works even if you've zoomed in or out so far you can't see a repetitive signal on the screen. But thats now free for all the range? The data sheet is a little confusing as it says the hardware counter is enabled standard on the 1000x but I can't see how to view it unless you install the free to download DVM option.

I really wish I could set the trigger source more easily (front panel button or double tap the channel or something). It requires about three or four presses right now. I am used to analog scopes with a knob or switch to change the trigger source.
This seems to be the case with a lot of digital scopes and I have no idea what's so hard about implementing it in the way you describe. It seems like a no brainer
The trigger controls on the 1000x are just a little fiddly, the top level menu has holdoff and HF/Noise reject options but you need to press a soft key to get to the second level menu with simple options like trigger source/type/polarity. So its like they got the menu priority back to front putting the most used controls deeper and the least used controls up front. The larger scopes in the series have separate buttons to get to these two different menu levels which makes them much nicer to use. These are all the little details that a "full" review of the scope would hit on.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #809 on: July 26, 2017, 05:43:00 PM »
The scope is generally quite fast. Though a big FFT will start to make is sluggish like a cheaper scope.
I don't think it does "big" FFTs, its limited to 64k points like the other scopes in its range yes? To compare to other popular scopes:

DSOX1000 64k point FFT, 3 updates/second
DS1054Z 64k point FFT, 1 update/second

DSOX1000 1k point FFT, 60 updates/second
DS1054Z 1k point FFT, 3 updates/second
DS4000 1k point FFT, 8 updates/second
GW Intek GDS1054B: 1Mpts FFT about 2 to 3 updates/second. At shorter memory depths it gets much faster.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline FlyingHacker

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #810 on: July 27, 2017, 02:45:33 AM »
The scope is generally quite fast. Though a big FFT will start to make is sluggish like a cheaper scope.
I don't think it does "big" FFTs, its limited to 64k points like the other scopes in its range yes? To compare to other popular scopes:

DSOX1000 64k point FFT, 3 updates/second
DS1054Z 64k point FFT, 1 update/second

DSOX1000 1k point FFT, 60 updates/second
DS1054Z 1k point FFT, 3 updates/second
DS4000 1k point FFT, 8 updates/second

Wow! I would hate to use a scope with 1 update per Second! That is so sluggish to attempt to adjust anything. Even the 3 updates/sec is the little bit of lag I was complaining about.
--73
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #811 on: July 27, 2017, 04:05:18 AM »
Yess, contest time! Me too, mee too :box:

2 x 2MPoint FFT + 2 x peak freq. auto detection @ 2Hz:



Edit: Also tested simple case of 1MPoint FFT + 1 x peak freq. auto detection: 9Hz
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 05:23:07 AM by MrW0lf »
 

Offline FlyingHacker

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #812 on: July 27, 2017, 08:06:05 AM »
This is a Keysight thread, but does that Pico scope do the FFT on the computer CPU? Also, what does it cost?
--73
 

Online Someone

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #813 on: July 27, 2017, 11:50:33 AM »
The scope is generally quite fast. Though a big FFT will start to make is sluggish like a cheaper scope.
I don't think it does "big" FFTs, its limited to 64k points like the other scopes in its range yes? To compare to other popular scopes:

DSOX1000 64k point FFT, 3 updates/second
DS1054Z 64k point FFT, 1 update/second

DSOX1000 1k point FFT, 60 updates/second
DS1054Z 1k point FFT, 3 updates/second
DS4000 1k point FFT, 8 updates/second

Wow! I would hate to use a scope with 1 update per Second! That is so sluggish to attempt to adjust anything. Even the 3 updates/sec is the little bit of lag I was complaining about.
But unlike some other  scopes all the controls continue working quickly, the other traces update quickly, its only the FFT or math traces that are updating slowly.
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #814 on: July 27, 2017, 04:37:03 PM »
This is a Keysight thread, but does that Pico scope do the FFT on the computer CPU? Also, what does it cost?

Most scopes need to be used indoors. What does having a nice warm room cost? Or even worse, what does it cost to buy lab playing time from wife? Overall this was just to show that there is different approach migrated from high-end gear that is better for certain (processing intensive) tasks. But yea, if want max amount of knobs for min amount of money need get back to discussing chinese scopes :)
BTW Looking at Keysight website all their high-end stuff (9000+) is running Windows 7 which implies some pulses and some limitations also (only 1,000 wfms/s on DSOZ634A) compared to even their own mid-range/low-end gear.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 05:08:33 PM by MrW0lf »
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #815 on: July 27, 2017, 04:50:06 PM »
But unlike some other  scopes all the controls continue working quickly, the other traces update quickly, its only the FFT or math traces that are updating slowly.

What happens if press STOP? Will calculate based on last trace or leave as is?
 

Offline Keysight DanielBogdanoff

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #816 on: July 27, 2017, 05:08:16 PM »
If the 1000 X-Series scope is stopped, the FFT will continue to be calculated on whatever is displayed on the screen. So, if you move waveforms around post-capture, it'll recalculate the FFT.

Offline FlyingHacker

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #817 on: July 28, 2017, 06:38:13 AM »
This is a Keysight thread, but does that Pico scope do the FFT on the computer CPU? Also, what does it cost?

Most scopes need to be used indoors. What does having a nice warm room cost? Or even worse, what does it cost to buy lab playing time from wife? Overall this was just to show that there is different approach migrated from high-end gear that is better for certain (processing intensive) tasks. But yea, if want max amount of knobs for min amount of money need get back to discussing chinese scopes :)
BTW Looking at Keysight website all their high-end stuff (9000+) is running Windows 7 which implies some pulses and some limitations also (only 1,000 wfms/s on DSOZ634A) compared to even their own mid-range/low-end gear.

That wasn't meant to denigrate USB scopes. Just curious how that one worked, and what it cost.
--73
 

Offline MrW0lf

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Re: NEW 100MHz Keysight Scope Release on 1st March 2017
« Reply #818 on: July 28, 2017, 08:45:21 AM »
That wasn't meant to denigrate USB scopes. Just curious how that one worked, and what it cost.

Ok :) thought bashing again because some think that USB ones are stuck in times when triggering was done in software etc horrors. Sent PM with some info not to clutter here.
 


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