Author Topic: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815  (Read 615656 times)

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Offline Rufus

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #75 on: May 18, 2012, 01:30:03 am »
I also observed a shift when the TG was switched on, however far less that the 150 Hz you recorded, the shift on my instrument was only in the order of 2-3 Hz...

The amount of shift varies with the setup, haven't figured out exactly how. Span, RWB, and SWT make a difference.
 

Offline cliffyk

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #76 on: May 18, 2012, 05:21:48 am »
My first SA was Tek 496P, purchased 18 or so years ago for $5300 which was at the time a deal.  I sold it in 2005 for $2500 and replaced it with the Instek GSP-810 (breaking even more or less), and as stated in a previous post recently sold the GSP-810 for $1300--meaning that I have a net current expense for the DSA-815 of $300 after eBay, PayPal, and UPS got their cut.

My point is that from a performance and overall capability perspective the DSA815 is 2 or 3 (perhaps several) orders of magnitude superior to the 1985 Tek 496P, and at least one order superior to the GSP-810, and cost 1/2 to 1/4 of what its predecessors cost. 

So here we are discussing "inaccuracies" of tens and hundreds of Hz, when the best my previous spectrum analyzers could hope to muster were errors in thousands, or even tens of thousands , of Hertz...

Short story, I really like this instrument!!!
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Offline cliffyk

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #77 on: May 18, 2012, 05:47:27 am »
This is neat...

I run a small (8W) neighborhood pirate FM station and do my best to keep the signal from not interfering with commercial stations; and making sure it meets FCC specs just-in-case. 

Using the DSA815 N dB BW function, and MaxHold,  I could easily and accurately record the occupied bandwidth (the FCC spec is 240kHz at -25dB).



What I found was that even though my modulation meter said I was kissing 75% I was only occupying 183kHz.  A little bit of tweaking my compressor/limiter gained me a bit more punch...

I like this little sucka'
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Offline olsennTopic starter

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #78 on: May 18, 2012, 05:21:30 pm »
Rigol seems to have re-designed their webpage (www.rigolna.com). They have like 6 different websites and at any point in time one is more up-to-date than the others. As of now it looks like this one is the latest and greatest for getting new info about the DSA815 or other Rigol products.

Also, I notice that a version of UltraSpectrum is available for download (free) on this site as well! Can someone tell me if this is the same as the one people are paying $300 for?
« Last Edit: May 18, 2012, 11:38:12 pm by olsenn »
 

Offline cliffyk

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #79 on: May 19, 2012, 01:12:30 am »
I downloaded the UltraSpectrum application (15-day trial) and though I have just played with it a bit I have not yet found anything about it that is worth $260.

To get it to work with the DSA815 you have to edit the UltraSpectrum.ini file it will load into the C:\Program Files\RIGOL Technologies, Inc\Ultra Sigma\Instrument Tools folder.  The highlighted line shown below must be added to indicate the DSA815 is a supported instrument:



I also shortened up the folder and application name that had both been absurdly long;

The folder being RIGOL_DSA1000A_Tools_UltraSpectrum_V00.01.00.10

With the .exe, .ini and .aliases files being the same with the appropriate extension.

Here is what the "Base" screen looks like:



Note that none of the analyzer's settings are populated, I don't know if this is an issue with the '815 or the software.

There is an "Advanced" screen also:



I was unable to make anything on the lower panel work, however I must admit I have not read the help file as yet.

I was able to compile, debug, and modify their VB6 demo application to talk to the DSA815 via the ethernet connection, adding commands to grab the center and span frequencies,  RBW, etc.  I am going to work on reconfiguring my Instek GSP-810 app to work with the '815, should be fairly easy.



Here is the trace data retrieved from the instrument, plotted in Excel:



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Offline echomancer

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #80 on: May 20, 2012, 04:39:36 pm »
Quote
About demodulation function...
I tried to use it as FM radio with FM antenna,but I can't receive even the strongest signal station here.
Usually I can receive FM radio with R3361B,setting up RBW and VBW etc.
The sensitivity is quite bad,or my function is broken?LOL
Maybe some made-up FM strong modulated signals,like set up by DG4000 series something can be decoded,but as FM radio,it has problem,I think.
If anybody can receive FM station with FM ANT,plz let me know.

I have no problem picking up FM stations in my area (NS, Canada) with just a plain piece of wire as an antenna. Make sure you set the center frequency to the desired station and adjust the span to 10KHz or whatnot, and also, just in case you forgot, make sure to turn the headohone output on and the volume way up.

I picked this unit up this weekend at the Dayton Hamvention and had an opportunity to spend some time with one of the lead engineers from Rigol China.  Great guys, and really enthusiastic about bringing products that "amateurs" can afford! 

I wanted to know if you (or anyone) could post a screen shot of your DSA815 while looking at the local broadcast radio spectrum.  Mine doesn't show peaks the way I would expect.  Unfortunately, I don't see that Rigol has published the sensitivity readings anywhere.  When compared to my friend's IFR 1200S using the same antenna, his monitor clearly shows the FM stations WELL above the noise floor while sitting in his basement.  Mine shows barely one peak.  I'm sure his IFR is more sensitive, but I'm surprised.

I'm going to try a longer antenna today to see.  Also, how long was the wire you attached?

I'm going to do some tests and will post a screen shot later.

Thanks!
 

Offline cliffyk

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #81 on: May 20, 2012, 05:33:00 pm »
The spectra in my above post re: the Ultra Spectrum software are all of the local FM band, however here are a couple screen dumps:

the entire 88 - 108 MHz band:


A PBS station in Jacksonville FL (35 miles away) broadcasting at 89.9 (circled above) in both analog and HD:


Note that I set the vertical scale to 4db/div.

The analyzer was fed from a 3/4 wave "slim-jim" tuned to 104.0 MHz

« Last Edit: May 20, 2012, 05:36:38 pm by cliffyk »
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Offline Rufus

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #82 on: May 23, 2012, 10:53:10 am »
I'm still liking my 815-TG, owners keep posting if you find anything interesting.

I have confirmed the 10MHz reference on mine is about 2.0 ppm high.

I have also noticed it is a bit fussy about USB memory sticks. I have one which is fine in a couple of other instruments and it works in the 815 if inserted while powering up but inserting while powered it causes the 815 to lock up for at least a minute before deciding no stick is present. Another stick I tried works fine.
 

Offline cliffyk

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #83 on: May 23, 2012, 01:59:09 pm »
I am having a ball with mine (also a '815-TG)--far superior to the Instek GSP-810 it replaced, which BTW continues to be sold for more than twice the cost of the DSA815.  For me the TG is an essential component of any spectrum analyzer.

I have not yet had the jump drive issue you reported.  I thought that perhaps it was similar to my Lecroy Wavejet 322 which computes a checksum for each drive when inserted, which with larger drives (2GB+) can be a mild annoyance--I have a 128MB stick I use with the '322 because of this.

However the capacity issue does not seem to be the case with the '815.  I have found that a drive with a large number of folders and files does slow things down a bit--but not as much as you have found.  Pulling up the "drive info" does get very slow with a lot of folders and files.

I am still working on my own software but have been slowed down by a client that decided to update their 50 workstations from XP to Win 7 by themselves.  "To save money" they told me--guess what isn't going to work out as planned?
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Offline Bored@Work

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #84 on: May 23, 2012, 04:16:42 pm »

I have also noticed it is a bit fussy about USB memory sticks. I have one which is fine in a couple of other instruments and it works in the 815 if inserted while powering up but inserting while powered it causes the 815 to lock up for at least a minute before deciding no stick is present.

Try to write a fresh file system on the stick under Windows. Many USB sticks come pre-formated with a file system that is not exactly right. Typical it is good enough to be recognized by Windows, but other implementations, e.g. in embedded systems, get upset about some missing or deviating details.
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Offline Rufus

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #85 on: May 23, 2012, 06:05:30 pm »

I have also noticed it is a bit fussy about USB memory sticks. I have one which is fine in a couple of other instruments and it works in the 815 if inserted while powering up but inserting while powered it causes the 815 to lock up for at least a minute before deciding no stick is present.

Try to write a fresh file system on the stick under Windows. Many USB sticks come pre-formated with a file system that is not exactly right. Typical it is good enough to be recognized by Windows, but other implementations, e.g. in embedded systems, get upset about some missing or deviating details.

It is happy with that stick if it is inserted while the SA powers up so I can't see it being upset by the format or contents. I tried some more, the SA locks up when the stick is inserted. Sometimes it detected the stick after about 30 seconds, one time I gave up waiting after 6 minutes. Another stick I have is reliably detected in 2-3 seconds.

The stick it doesn't like is a Kingston micro-SD reader, however, it is happy with the same micro-SD card plugged into a dirt cheap no name SD card reader.
 

Offline cliffyk

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #86 on: May 23, 2012, 06:53:02 pm »
I have been able to duplicate what you report, using a cheap Twin-MOS "8-in-1" (I never have figured out what the "8" are?)  card reader, and SD cards none of which worked at all even after waiting several minutes.  However the same "8-in-1" thingy worked fine with the various CF cards I have accumulated.

All of the dozen or so USB jump drives I have work fine.

I had a somewhat similar problem with a Lecroy 9354L 'scope that had a PCMCIA card slot requiring SRAM.  It worked fine with the older SRAM cards having replaceable backup batteries, however it froze when an SRAM card having a rechargeable non-replaceable batteries was inserted.  Yet when the rechargeables was inserted before powering up the 'scope it worked fine. 

What I found was that the initial +5V current draw of the rechargeable cards was pulling the 'scopes +5V bus low enough to glitch the instrument's microcontroller.  Oddly the rechargeable cards worked fine with the older Lecroy 9400 series 'scopes...
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Offline T4P

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #87 on: May 23, 2012, 06:57:36 pm »
I have been able to duplicate what you report, using a cheap Twin-MOS "8-in-1" (I never have figured out what the "8" are?)  card reader, and SD cards none of which worked at all even after waiting several minutes.  However the same "8-in-1" thingy worked fine with the various CF cards I have accumulated.

All of the dozen or so USB jump drives I have work fine.

I had a somewhat similar problem with a Lecroy 9354L 'scope that had a PCMCIA card slot requiring SRAM.  It worked fine with the older SRAM cards having replaceable backup batteries, however it froze when an SRAM card having a rechargeable non-replaceable batteries was inserted.  Yet when the rechargeables was inserted before powering up the 'scope it worked fine. 

What I found was that the initial +5V current draw of the rechargeable cards was pulling the 'scopes +5V bus low enough to glitch the instrument's microcontroller.  Oddly the rechargeable cards worked fine with the older Lecroy 9400 series 'scopes...

Twin-MOS ...  :o I recall having a SD card reader of the same "name"
 

Offline olsennTopic starter

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #88 on: May 24, 2012, 07:02:27 pm »
Quote
I downloaded the UltraSpectrum application (15-day trial) and though I have just played with it a bit I have not yet found anything about it that is worth $260.


A similar setup to UltraView (for their multimeters) I expect. For educational purposes, try setting your clock back after installing the 15-day trial (while it's still active) or more appropriately using a program like RunAsDate to run UltraSpectrum/UltraSigma passing it a year of 1990, and you will have a perpetual license without having to pay $260 for it.
 

Offline cliffyk

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #89 on: May 24, 2012, 07:56:59 pm »
Quote
I downloaded the UltraSpectrum application (15-day trial) and though I have just played with it a bit I have not yet found anything about it that is worth $260.


A similar setup to UltraView (for their multimeters) I expect. For educational purposes, try setting your clock back after installing the 15-day trial (while it's still active) or more appropriately using a program like RunAsDate to run UltraSpectrum/UltraSigma passing it a year of 1990, and you will have a perpetual license without having to pay $260 for it.

Thank you for the suggestions, further proof that great minds do think alike...

As an educational experience I tried RunAsDate (RaD)--aren't NirSoft's utilities amazing?--however the EXE cannot be launched independently of Ultra Sigma (USig), it pops up a dialog stating so.  When installed it creates an Ultra Spectrum.ini file in theC:\RIGOL Techologies, Inc\Instrument Tools folder,  and USig launches it from a FQPN specified in the Ultra Spectrum.ini file (ToolsSetupPath).  I added RunAsDate (with appropriate parameters) to the FQPN in the .ini file however  Ultra Sigma then did not even show Ultra Spectrum (USpc) as an available tool on the Tools drop down menu.

I even, again as an educational exercise, wrapped RaD and USpc into a VBScript, compiled to an EXE named the same as the original USpc executable.  This time it appeared on the USig Tools menu.  The compiled script launched, then launched Ultra Spectrum which complained it could not find the instrument (TCPIP connected in my case, I suspect Ultra Sigma establishes the socket provides it to Ultra Spectrum) .

If I felt there were some overwhelming need for me to utilise such an underwhelming application ( Ultra Spectrum) I might have gone further, however as my re-written GSP-810 application will do all that USpc does--and whatever I might like to do in the future--the point of diminishing returns has been passed...
« Last Edit: May 25, 2012, 12:57:56 am by cliffyk »
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Offline RigolUS_Apps

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #90 on: June 21, 2012, 08:09:58 pm »
Hello Everyone,

I just wanted to say thank you all for taking such interest in the DSA-815TG!

Just a quick reminder.. I've seen a few Blogs posted where people get angry and frustrated by an instrument or situation (not just Rigol). We try our very best to return every call and email within a few hours.

If you have any questions, please feel free to contact Rigol USA.

We are here to help!

Jason

jason_chonko@rigoltech.com
 

Online bingo600

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #91 on: June 27, 2012, 04:11:37 pm »
According to this (German)
http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/261382#2732635

There ought to be a new firmware out

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Offline olsennTopic starter

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #92 on: June 27, 2012, 04:20:03 pm »
Quote
According to this (German)
http://www.mikrocontroller.net/topic/261382#2732635

There ought to be a new firmware out


Apparently it is firmware v1.05 and it fixes bugs in AM/FM demodulation (works fine for me already) and adds PASS/FAIL functionality.
 

Offline echomancer

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #93 on: June 28, 2012, 05:37:48 pm »
Do we contact Rigol and request it?
 

Offline Gunb

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #94 on: June 28, 2012, 10:32:15 pm »
I would contact support.

After flashing I find out much better behaviour of the FM/AM demodulation.


Rgds
Gunb
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #95 on: June 30, 2012, 12:33:22 am »
I would contact support.

I did after creating an account at the http://www.rigol.com customer center.

Two days later no response, not even and acknowledgement that I posted a question.

I also mentioned a nasty DSA-815(-TG) bug.

Hook up the TG to the input. Set full span, set the attenuator to 0db and pre-amp on. Set the TG to 0db. Set the sweep time to something long, say 1000 seconds.  Turn on the TG and now your analyser is locked up for 1000 seconds. It responds to nothing but the power button and if you have it set to restore the power off settings it will lock up again as soon as you power on.

To regain control remove the input signal and when you turn off the TG you will get one "IF signal out of range" warning message presumably referring to the continuous overload which locked up the analyser.

This seems not to be TG specific. If you set zero span and put in a constant signal at the centre frequency it also locks up beeping at you, sometimes with and sometimes without showing the "IF signal out of range" warning.

Smells like a constant IF overload tries to show a zillion "IF signal out of range" warnings which locks up the UI without managing to show one of them or beep if the TG is on.
 

Offline Gunb

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #96 on: July 01, 2012, 10:09:23 pm »
I would contact support.

I did after creating an account at the http://www.rigol.com customer center.

Two days later no response, not even and acknowledgement that I posted a question.


It depends whom you've contacted. Well know that Chinese support does not work,  you should contact local support. Where are you from?
 

Offline olsennTopic starter

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #97 on: July 05, 2012, 12:25:03 pm »
If anyone figures out if there actually is a new firmware, and where to obtain it, please let us know!
 

Offline Rufus

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #98 on: July 05, 2012, 12:42:57 pm »
There is 1.05 firmware which is supposed to improve demodulation.

I was emailed it indirectly from Rigol in Germany after approaching Batronix where the SA came from.

Could someone confirm or deny this bug.

Apply a -10dbm signal frequency doesn't really matter (10MHz). Turn on the pre-amp and press Auto.

When it has found the signal reduce the input attenuator till it starts beeping and showing IF signal out of range messages.

Then set zero span.

My experience is the analyzer will stop updating the trace, beep continuously and not respond to any key except the power on/off button.

It is another version of the problem with the TG providing a continuous mixer overload  locking up the UI.

You need to remove the input signal to recover.
 

Offline Gunb

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Re: Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815
« Reply #99 on: July 06, 2012, 08:59:13 pm »

I also mentioned a nasty DSA-815(-TG) bug.

Hook up the TG to the input. Set full span, set the attenuator to 0db and pre-amp on. Set the TG to 0db. Set the sweep time to something long, say 1000 seconds.  Turn on the TG and now your analyser is locked up for 1000 seconds. It responds to nothing but the power button and if you have it set to restore the power off settings it will lock up again as soon as you power on.

To regain control remove the input signal and when you turn off the TG you will get one "IF signal out of range" warning message presumably referring to the continuous overload which locked up the analyser.

This seems not to be TG specific. If you set zero span and put in a constant signal at the centre frequency it also locks up beeping at you, sometimes with and sometimes without showing the "IF signal out of range" warning.

Smells like a constant IF overload tries to show a zillion "IF signal out of range" warnings which locks up the UI without managing to show one of them or beep if the TG is on.

Hi Rufus,

The first bug you've described I can confirm. The analyzer is dead during the 1000s and as you described accurately after power-on it comes back to this state.

The second bug I cannot not reproduce. I'm also using firmware 1.05.

Your last mentioned bug I try to check the next days.

Did you already report the "1000s" bug to Rigol?


Kind regards
Gunb
 


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