Spectrum Analyzer - Rigol DSA815

[Pinkus]

I did only try the PNG mode - this one is not upside down.

I understand that, but they have a bug that's gotta be pretty damn simple to fix, and they don't even touch it? I mean come on, that's just lame. The bug's been there for a long time.

OK, just for you I tried to save a JPG and guess what: still upside down. BMP and PNG is fine as I said.
Even if it is not a big deal for the user to rotate them (2x right click in picture viewer and select rotate clockwise) they should have repaired this considering they are calling the firmware now 1.16.00.03 instead of 1.15.1.00 and not just 1.15.01.01

[Pinkus]

Edit: Price of Rigol's '2FSK-DSA800' Option Activation?  Not available at this time.

I stumbled upon this link yesterday: http://www.rigol-uk.co.uk/Rigol-SSC-DSA-Signal-Seamless-Capture-p/dsa700-ssc.htm#.V2JGVlWLT0M
Price for the option is 179 GBP (225 Euro), but not available for purchase yet.
As the firmware is more or less the same on the DSA series analyzers, at some point this option will be available for all.

[I4E]

The DSA700's are built on the same "platform" as the DSA800  but I don't think they'll mix firmware/software and make the DSA700 firmware in a form for the  DSA815.

The DSA705 (500MHz) and DSA710 (1GHz) unfortunately don't have a tracking gen option. 

As a hint ,  if anyone has issues upgrading your firmware on a Rigol unit.. sometimes it's the USB stick and you need to try a different one.

We are offering a discount on options for Rigol products especially for EEVblog members regardless if you bought your unit from us or not.  Just mention the blog when contacting us.

Have a great day Everyone!

Joy Torres
Instruments 4 Engineers Ltd
Tel +44 (0) 161 871 7450
info@instruments4engineers.com

www.instruments4engineers.com

[I4E]

Hi There Ted and Everyone.

I checked with Rigol because I hadn't heard of this option previously  and there isn't anything on our current pricelist.  Rigol said that the option is for 2FSK Modulation which is typically useful in markets such as automotive.  You would have to buy the option  and the price for this hasn't been released yet. Rigol are going to be coming out with a datasheet and I'm waiting for that as well.

If anyone is interested in getting the info when I get it send me a PM  and I'll get it to you as soon as it comes in.

Have a great day Everyone!

Joy Torres
Instruments 4 Engineers
Tel +44 (0) 161 871 7450

Website : www.instruments4engineers.com

[I4E]

Welcome Ted :-)


Joy Torres
Instruments 4 Engineers
Tel +44 (0) 161 871 7450
info@instruments4engineers.com


Authorized Rigol Distributor

[pascal_sweden]

What about the noise floor level on the more high-end Rigol spectrum analyzers, such as DSA832-TG, DSA875-TG, or DSA1030A-TG3?

Are these noise floor levels all the same as in the base model Rigol spectrum analyzer, DSA815-TG?

[Mosaic]

I've been thinking about how to 'convert' or  'mod' the DSA 815-TG to  go up to say 3Ghz using perhaps 2 bands.

Superficially:
The TG has to be upconverted (1.5Ghz to 3 Ghz), passed thru the DUT and then down converted back to the stock range. Then all the instrument readings can be considered shifted by 1.5Ghz.

Perhaps an ALC stage (ref'd to the TG output) might be needed to compensate for the upconverter & HPF losses so the DUT sees the correct input power level as dialed in on the DSA.

[Velund]

I've been thinking about how to 'convert' or  'mod' the DSA 815-TG ...

It was done more than once.. 8-)

If all you need is tuning of various filters and checking SWR - you can just normalize and see "real" dB's, even without ALC and potential problems linked with it...

[Mosaic]

Any links to how it was done and the pitfalls along the way?

[I4E]

Hi There Ted

Have you been able to resolve your issue? If you need me to put you in touch with someone for help let me know.

Have a nice weekend!

Joy Torres
Instruments 4 Engineers
Tel +44 (0) 161 871 7450

Authorized Rigol Distributor   

www.instruments4engineers.com

[I4E]

Glad it's been resolved :-) We haven't gotten the datasheet yet but once I do I'll be sure to send it to you.

Have a good weekend!

Joy

[ted572]

Full DSA815 System/Firmware Information and 10 MHz Clock Calibration:

The provided PDF attachment explains how to get the DSA815 full System (Hardware and Firmware) Information and how to Adjust the 10 MHz Clock Frequency (Frequency Standard).  The access key requirement was revised in Firmware 00.01.15, +.  Credit and thanks go to PeDre (Peter) for providing the additional information for accessing the Service/Calibration Modes.  Thank you Peter.

Edit: I found a error in Steps 2a) and 2b).  The corrected (replacement) version is provided here below.  I'm sorry for the error, although grateful that no one had, or reported a problem with it.

[ted572]

There is new Firmware available for the DSA815:  DSA815 Firmware_00.01.17.00.04
To get this you can go to > http://int.rigol.com/Support/SoftDownload/3   Then go to > Spectrum Analyzer.   Then Download > DSA815 Firmware_00.01.17.00.04

V00.01.17    2016-08-15
-----Added the SSC fuction
-----Cleared the LAN communication trouble
-----Resolve the front panel switch control problem

Yes, it is safe to install, and all options are still there for all the older DSA815's with Boot loader 00.01.02 and .03.  Enjoy . . .   See my previous post (Reply #784) to see the full System and Firmware Information after doing the FW upgrade.

Edit: I Do Not have the newer version DSA815 that TurboTom (Thomas) describes in his post below (Reply #786). If you have a Newer DSA815 with Boot loader version 00.01.04 then be sure to at least read post's (Reply #) 786, 787, and 790 ( * ->   may very well be a potential fix for the newer DSA815s).

FYI - All older DSA815's/TG (with Boot loader 00.01.02, 00.01.03) are all working fine as is with this Firmware upgrade.  

            Ted572

[TurboTom]

ATTENTION: All owners of the later models of the DSA815(TG) who couldn't use the Riglol keygenerator to enable the options but had to connect the WP pin of the FRAM chip to Vdd, please DON'T INSTALL the new firmware! I did and apparently, the new firmware checks if it can write to the FRAM and if it cannot, it somehow disables the trial licenses (probably in program code). It may work okay if you just for the update remove the WP-Vdd link but one never knows what might happen if the link is closed again later. I guess it's time to look for a "proper" hack for the later DSA815 models...

Good luck,
Thomas

[TurboTom]

A quick follow-up: Fortunately it's possible to downgrade back to 1.16 and the trial licenses reappear. I guess now it's time to save an image of the FRAM contents...

Cheers,
Thomas

[ted572]

A quick follow-up: Fortunately it's possible to downgrade back to 1.16 and the trial licenses reappear. I guess now it's time to save an image of the FRAM contents...

Hi Thomas:
What Boot version do you have in your DSA815?  And how (procedure used) did you downgrade your Firmware?
You are very fortunate, and I'm happy for you.

I'm asking about your Boot version because if you have 00.01.02 or 00.01.03 then you should be able to downgrade to FW 00.01.07 and use the Riglol Keygen to install the Options.  And then reinstall FW 00.01.17.
This is not possible if you have Boot version 00.01.04.  And I thought that the newer DSA815's had Boot version 00.01.04 and could not downgrade the Firmware at all.  But if you have Boot version 00.01.04 it must be that you just can't downgrade to a version that uses the older Boot version, but still able to downgrade a couple of versions.  Anyway if you need FW 00.01.07 I can help you.

   Cheers, Ted

[TurboTom]

Ted -

I've got bootloader version 00.01.04 and hardware 00.08. I downgraded the same way as I did the update -- in the storage menu with an USB stick containing only the firmware file. I experimented with this before and found it to work. Apparently Rigol hasn't blocked the "reverse route" like they did in the DS1000Z series. Yet if I remember correctly, I cannot downgrade to firmware versions that came with the previous bootloader version (I guess that's basically why the machines with the 01.04 bootloader cannot be unlocked with the "Riglol" keygen). So nothing won but also nothing lost  .

It will only get frustrating if Rigol should add some real innovations in follow-up firmware versions in future (I doubt they will...  ). But who knows, maybe someone will find a different way to "free" the later DSAs without write-protecting the FRAM.

Cheers,
Thomas

[TurboTom]

Thanks Ted, I think I've got the files you were referring to somewhere as well. As yet I'm a little reluctant to apply that patch yet, especially since I've also got the Siglent SSA3021X(+)  which makes the Rigol look rather limited. Probably I'm going to (try to) sell the rigol eventually, yet sometimes it's also quite beneficial to have two such units, especially when analyzing some "peculiarities" of one of the SAs... What I'm actully missing more than the (test) licenses on the rigol, is the 10Hz RBW. And that's the one feature I cannot get on my instrument, whatever kind of tweak I appy to the FRAM. This Siglent (with a little "help...") goes down to 1Hz RBW, quite a difference to the Rigol in its current configuration.

Cheers,
Thomas

[ted572]

Re. DSA815 Firmware upgrade 00.01.17.00.04:

See post (Reply) #785.  I have made edits to this with explanations of the issue with newer DSA815's with Boot loader 00.01.04 and a potential fix by EEVbloger Howardlong (with some info in Reply #790).  Thanks to TurboTom we have been alerted to this, and he covers it very well.  Thanks Thomas.

[TurboTom]

I intend to "poke around" in my DSA815 a little to experiment with the FRAM and once open, I couldn't resist to peek into the RF section as well (didn't open that so far) - guess I was surprised to find something considerably different from the design shown in Dave's teardown video and the associated photos.

Actually, the RF input section and the 1st mixer had been modified excessively and some other sections as well. As far as I can tell, the VCOs were kept practically unchanged. But now there are many "permanent adjustment points", as it seems mostly for impedance matching, all throughout the areas where frequencies >500MHz are processed. Input protection also seems to have been "beefed up" a little. One very funny detail is that apparently some of the 1st LO signal is coupled to the 1st mixer output through a low pass filter. Maybe there's some feed-through in the mixer that's compensated that way??

Anyway, I always had the impression that on my DSA815 the noise floor is round about 10dB better than what's shown in Dave's TG tutorial and other videos. That modification may actually explain the improved performance of the later instruments.

I took some photos of my machine (sorry for the bad focus at the periphery sometimes - I guess I need a better lens for these close-up shots) and uploaded them to my web server: http://www.turbinemuseum.de/files/DSA815_Photos.zip (25MB). So have a look if you llike!

Of course that kept me from experimenting with the FRAM so far...but that will happen soon anyway .

Cheers,
Thomas

[TurboTom]

Okay, bad news for all who own a DSA815(TG) with the 00.01.04 bootloader: I just removed the write protection from the FRAM in my DSA and updated the firmware to 00.01.17. Before the update I had more than 34 hours of trial time on all options. After the update the "Option Type" for AMK, EMI and VSWR was set to "Trial" (TG is official) and the new SSC (2FSK) "None". But the time of all trial options was reset to zero, i.e. they were set inactive. Apparently, this information is also written to the FRAM since a downgrade to firmware 00.01.16 now didn't reactivate the trials (like it did with the FRAM write protected). Basically speaking, this new update steals your trial time and only the official options prevail.

I guess I'll contact Rigol with this issue and ask for a reactivation key for the trials (and possibly also a trial for SSC) -- I'm quite curious about their reaction.

Anyway, this could mean that the update options for "write-protected" DSA815s with bootloader 00.01.04 end at firmware version 00.01.16. I guess if this is the case, Rigol will have a hard time selling their DSA815 / 832 in future since there's a better alternative available...

Cheers,
Thomas


P.S. I read the complete FRAM contents before this experiment so I can actually write it back with the "old" options enabled, this only requires some soldering. But I prefer to wait for Rigol's answer first.

[TurboTom]

Surprise, surprise! Apparently, the firmware update to 00.01.17.00.04 has enabled the 10Hz RBW option on my DSA815-TG! Though I didn't find this specified anywhere. Either the new firmware must have enabled this or my "messing around" with up- and downgrading several times.

Okay, I just re-checked: If I downgrade to 00.01.16, the minimum RBW is again 100Hz, after the upgrade to 00.01.17 it returns to 10Hz.

So I'm quite surprised why Rigol didn't report this in their changelog, or maybe it's unintentional, a "bug" so to speak  . I love these kinds of bugs...

Now it's a hard decision, rather have the trial options or the 10Hz RBW. I guess for me the 10Hz is more valuable since I hardly used the options for anything else than playing around, while I often whished I had better frequency resolution. Lets see, if this "bug" gets eliminated in the next update...or if it's a "si(g)lent" improvement to have a better standing against the competitor .

Cheers,
Thomas

[outremer]

Hi all,

I just upgraded to firmware 00.01.17.00.04 (boot 00.01 04. Main board 00.09. RF board 00.05. Digital board 00.05) and yes the Resolution Bandwidth shows two more steps 30 Hz and 10 Hz. Though not documented in the firmware release notes it is there... and functionnal. I did never do any mod inside the SA. Concerning the options, all are out as they were under FW 00.01.16 and probably previously under FW00.01.09 which I didn't check before upgrading.

regards

Phil.

[xrunner]

I upgraded also. I tested the JPG screen shot and it's still upside down. Guess that's just too hard to fix. 

[rf-loop]

How it is now near carrier using 10Hz RBW.

Here in this image Siglent.  SSA run free with its own internal freq reference.
Signal source 8644B -004  free run with its own freq reference.
Input, 10MHz, true level exactly 10.0dBm (carrier 30Hz out from display)
RBW10Hz
100Hz from carrier < -90dBc/Hz
1kHz from carrier around -100dBc/Hz

Normalization from 10Hz RBW to 1Hz RBW  is of course 10dB but normalization from 10Hz RBW to 1Hz NBW is not 10dB, in this case it is roughly 7.5dB  and Marker function "Noise" do  this.

It now nice to see how this Rigol 10Hz RBW is useable near carrier. when there is some quite low spurs, example 50Hz mod etc.



I like to see same with Rigol