BenchVue 3.0 now available – ask the BenchVue team anything

[BenchVue Team]

Hey EEVBlog members! We’re part of the Keysight BenchVue team and we are here to answer your questions on BenchVue. We’ll be monitoring this thread to answer your questions. Ask us anything!

Regards,
David
Brian
Jeff

You seem to make point that your package requires no programming.   To me, that is not a selling point.  If I am hooking an instrument to a PC, it is to automate some test.  I am not sure if Sparkfun still sells the kit with the water marked version of Labview for $50.   It was basically their base package.   So, it can't be cost.   

I purchased Benchlink or something for my HP33120A and HP34401A when I bought them new.  Both programs were very limited in what they could do.  I am not even sure I could run that software on a modern PC today.    I can still run Labview code that I wrote more than 20 years ago.

What is the reason anyone would purchase a canned program like this over Labview?   Is it like you stated,  that there is no need to do any programming?

Hi Joeqsmith! Programming is a great skill. I have programs that I wrote myself 12 years ago that I still refer to or use because they do exactly what I want. Programming does provide more flexibility to solve each problem at hand. However, programming is also an investment in time. It takes time to not only learn the nuances of each language, but also to create each custom program even for some simple tasks. Take a look at LaurentR's comment of needing 100's of lines of code to create a simple sweep. A lot of people do not have the skill or time to continue to create their own custom tests. This is especially true for Test and Measurement which also requires knowledge of SCPI, IVI-COM drivers, VISA, IEEE 488.1 and other acronyms that only make sense to T&M veterans.

BenchVue's goal is to take the most common tasks and make it easy to accomplish them without the learning curve that programming requires. Plug and play instrument control. We provide a single interface that looks and feels the same for different types of instruments and with Test Flow you can use them together to create custom sequences. Hopefully with luck, continuous development, and  acceptance BenchVue will have the longevity that LabView has enjoyed. Using BenchVue today will save you time immediately by allowing easy data capture. You will be able to spend your time on the problems of your design, not fighting the instrumentation.

If BenchVue is a program that you find useful please use it, most of the functionality is available at no cost. For users that do need more capability we do have some upgrade options but it is not compulsory to upgrade.

~David

[BenchVue Team]

I can't see pricing for the Apps in Australian dollars, hopefully that will propagate through and not require quotes. But reading through the BV3 manual about the test flow:

Yearly renewable license.

Is the renewal required to continue running the test flows? Or just for creation of them? How do you plan for people to develop and then deploy tests using this flow?

Greetings! The Test Flow license enables use with live instruments. Users may create and share the .bvseq files (our clever acronym for BenchVue sequences) without the license. But in order to work with a real instrument on your bench, the license is needed.

If anyone is interested in trying Test Flow without purchasing it, for a limited time we enabled a generous 90 day trial period for Test Flow. This will get you full access to Test Flow to try out, learn, and hopefully fall in love with. We really do believe that it will enable you to do your work a lot quicker with no programming. Don't forget that we have a Test Flow playlist on Youtube, its posted on the first post of this EEVBlog topic.

To enable your 90 day trial, you can go to the Apps tab (at the very top center)  in BenchVue, then click on the Test Flow icon. Once the description page opens there should be a button to start your trial.

~David

Thank you, I have watched the videos but the licensing terms are not clear. So each instance of the software that runs with real instruments will require an annual license maintained to run the test flows? I am comparing this to the free deployment model that competitive systems offer.

My apologies that the documentation is not clear on licensing. The difference between a demo version and a licensed version of Test Flow is the ability to use live instruments with your Test Flow sequence. We do not currently have a run time version of the Test Flow app for deployment.

~David

[BenchVue Team]

To state this in a separate post, I'd really like to see the low-speed digitizing function available on the 34461A also made available on the 34465A without the DIG option. It makes no sense for that function to not be available just because the DIG option is not there. The 34465A is a superset of the 34461A, so why would that function not be available?

It was that way on BV2. On BV3, I don't know (BV3 on 34465A without DIG is broken so who knows whether that is still an issue), but I would certainly like to see this fixed.

We have fixed the broken code that was keeping the 34465A app from starting unless you had the DIG option, and that update will be on the web site shortly. One thing we changed in 3.0 was to break all apps into independent pieces, so they can be updated individually without having to release a new version of BV itself. So the DMM 3.1 release will be available as soon as we can get it uploaded. I can also make it available on Dropbox if anyone urgently needs it now. Remember that you can reach support (me) directly at bv_support at keysight dot com. You can also use the "Report an Issue" option in the gear icon to zip up log files and add comments or ask for help. All such emails go to me and I respond to every one as fast as I can.

All that said, I will look into allowing the 34465A to be used as a digitizer without the DIG option. As I understand it, the 34465A has much more memory with the DIG option, and we use that to store readings so it can run at the high speed usually needed for digitizing.

Brian

The DMM update has been published. For those that have 3.0 installed, you may update only the DMM app within BenchVue. We suggest this method since it is faster and easier than other options. To see and install the update go to your Apps tab (at the top bar) then you should see a little green update flag on the DMM icon. Clicking on the icon will bring you to a description and you should see an update button to initiate the update. Internet and FTP access is necessary for this update.

[HighVoltage]

To see and install the update go to your Apps tab (at the top bar) then you should see a little green update flag on the DMM icon.

Thanks for the update, but I do not see a green update flag.
May it is because my Pro Trial DMM App has expired?

[joeqsmith]

David,

Thanks for responding. 

"However, programming is also an investment in time. It takes time to not only learn the nuances of each language, but also to create each custom program even for some simple tasks. "

I agree, it's an investment in ones self.   I have limited time and and try to choose my tools wisely. LaurentR's comment was using Mathworks which is not really designed for the T&M like Labview.  Setting up automated tests is pretty simple with it. 

"Test Flow you can use them together to create custom sequences."

  This sounds like programming to me.   If I were to invest time learning a T&M control language, wouldn't I be better served learning something that has been around a very long time with a vast user base and support for pretty much any equipment I desire?

"If BenchVue is a program that you find useful please use it, most of the functionality is available at no cost. For users that do need more capability we do have some upgrade options but it is not compulsory to upgrade."

I doubt very much I could use it as all of my equipment that is HP branded is more than 15 years old with the majority more than 25.   It would be hard to justify new Keysight equipment for my hobby use.    Are you planning to support other 3rd party equipment in the future? 

[LabSpokane]

I'm not trying to alienate anyone, but the simple fact is that Keysight cannot develop an application with features and a price point attractive to the hobbyist market.  It is just not their business model.  I think some of the pricing is a bit steep in light of the current performance, but I'd rather see the performance issues addressed and increase the value proposition.

Another option would be to offer BenchVue on a dual licensing model of perpetual or an annual subscription model to get the cost of entry down. People will still complain, but it could be a more sustainable revenue stream.

========

And thank you Keysight them for acknowledging the current performance issues. I'd love to see you get the support from corporate to break away from .Net and reinvent the application as part of a 4.0 or 5.0 release. The overhead of .Net really makes BenchVue painful to use. I don't regard that issue as a team failure. I see that as a management issue. 

[Macbeth]

You can also check out some of the videos we've got on YouTube, such as this video for using a DMM with Command Expert in Excel -
Let us know if you get stuck, we're glad to help!

Alan Copeland
Lead Connectivity Support Engineer @ Keysight

Wow! I never knew this existed. It's brilliant! Especially because it will work with ANY SCPI instruments plus IVI COM and IVI C and it's free. This is better than BenchVue to me 

I've only had a quick play but my Rigol IVI-C driver is working and my Keithley IVI-COM should work. This is a damn sight better than having to create wrapper code myself.

The instrument command sets - is there a way for me to generate these myself from Generic SCPI commands? Or would I have to write IVI drivers to do this?

Also, exporting into  C, C#, VB.NET, MATLAB, and Excel is great. But Excel exports as CSV (which I guess is used by the Excel Add-In) but I can't find export for old fashioned VBA / VBScript code - which is what Excel uses.

Anyway I have to play with this some more...

[Macbeth]

I'm not trying to alienate anyone, but the simple fact is that Keysight cannot develop an application with features and a price point attractive to the hobbyist market. 

Au contraire, that Command Expert is free and works for all manufacturers instruments. It seems very easy to use, even for none programmers. Very easy to experiment with instrument commands and results as you go.

Of course the Keysight provided command sets are nicer to use than the more arcane IVI stuff or hard coded Generic SCPI, but if there is some way of users making compatible command sets (maybe an XML format?) then that would be excellent.

[LabSpokane]

I'm not trying to alienate anyone, but the simple fact is that Keysight cannot develop an application with features and a price point attractive to the hobbyist market. 

Au contraire, that Command Expert is free and works for all manufacturers instruments. It seems very easy to use, even for none programmers. Very easy to experiment with instrument commands and results as you go.

Of course the Keysight provided command sets are nicer to use than the more arcane IVI stuff or hard coded Generic SCPI, but if there is some way of users making compatible command sets (maybe an XML format?) then that would be excellent.

I was referring to BenchVue. SCPI commands through Excel have been available for many years. This new tool makes it much easier than it used to be, so Bravo! Keysight.

[plesa]

I just tried Test Flow and it can be quite handy. Thumbs up!
Are you going to offer some bundles like Test Flow+DMM+FG+PS+DAQ+OSC?

I propose to implement following in future changes:
-Undo and redo actions
-Add scale on Y axis in line chart mode - multiple needed in case more instruments used
-used configurable/custom blocks (e.g for unsupported instruments)

In Testflow I also find way how to display data from multiple DMMs in one graph.

[ralphrmartin]

OK, here is a question. Can you get rid of the stupid warning about the clock jumping forward? It makes the product unusable. I run Benchvue under a Virtual PC, as I have a Mac, so every time I reload the Virtual PC, the clock jumps forward a few hours or even days. I then get told I am trying to trick the licence software, and should put my clock back if I am not to get into trouble. This is a real pain.

[Macbeth]

OK, here is a question. Can you get rid of the stupid warning about the clock jumping forward? It makes the product unusable. I run Benchvue under a Virtual PC, as I have a Mac, so every time I reload the Virtual PC, the clock jumps forward a few hours or even days. I then get told I am trying to trick the licence software, and should put my clock back if I am not to get into trouble. This is a real pain.

Surely that is a problem with your Virtual PC setup? Why would its clock jump forward? I would think if anything it would be held back, but you should be able to set it up to obtain time from an NTP server in Windows settings.

Unless BenchVue has some stupid DRM or something to detect it running in a VM?

[ralphrmartin]

Because I suspend the virtual PC. I then come back to my electronics a few days later and unsuspend it, and the clock then gets synced to the current Mac clock by NTP. Bam. The clock jumps forward 72 hours say.

There's no problem with the virtual PC. It's the assumptions that Keysight are making that are wrong. They are assuming I am messing around with my clock to extend the life of a licence, but I am not.

In fact, their logic is wrong. There's nothing wrong with clocks jumping forward. Its when they jump back that there's something odd going on.

[HighVoltage]

Why don't you sync the clock of the virtual windows PC, before you start any Keysight services or application. You can even automate this during the startup of your virtual PC

[LabSpokane]

Why don't you sync the clock of the virtual windows PC, before you start any Keysight services or application. You can even automate this during the startup of your virtual PC

That's not how the suspend feature on a virtual machine works. And the clock is automatically adjusted once the VM is back up. The problem isn't BenchVue. It's the license manager that runs in the background as a service.

This fussing over the clock has puzzled me as well.

[BenchVue Team]

Thanks for the update, but I do not see a green update flag.
May it is because my Pro Trial DMM App has expired?

The pro trial should not have any affect on the ability to see and download the update. Let me know if you still aren't seeing the update as it's been a few days since it has been published.

I doubt very much I could use it as all of my equipment that is HP branded is more than 15 years old with the majority more than 25.   It would be hard to justify new Keysight equipment for my hobby use.    Are you planning to support other 3rd party equipment in the future?

Joeqsmith, tools are a personal choice. BenchVue is an option has a valuable place in the market, the choice is yours if we are offering what you want or need. Feedback like this forum is valuable to us so that we can continue to pursue new capabilities and offer what users want. All of this interaction is helping us build a better product and this helps to develop a product that users want. I think that we have a good start. I appreciate your interest and if today's BenchVue doesn't meet your needs, please keep us on your radar as we continue to develop and offer new capabilities, pricing, and bundle options. All are on the table for the BenchVue team and we are continuing to work to ensure that we provide value for our customers and the company.

As of 3.0 we are not supporting third party instruments. I can't publicly commit on future release features but we do hear this feedback quite a bit.

And thank you Keysight them for acknowledging the current performance issues. I'd love to see you get the support from corporate to break away from .Net and reinvent the application as part of a 4.0 or 5.0 release. The overhead of .Net really makes BenchVue painful to use. I don't regard that issue as a team failure. I see that as a management issue.

Resources are always an issue whether you are a hobbyist or a development team. The BenchVue team does what we can with our limited resources, it might take a while for us to deliver everything that every customer wants. However, that is not going to stop us from trying to deliver a good product that will help you do your job. Thank you for your support!

OK, here is a question. Can you get rid of the stupid warning about the clock jumping forward? It makes the product unusable. I run Benchvue under a Virtual PC, as I have a Mac, so every time I reload the Virtual PC, the clock jumps forward a few hours or even days. I then get told I am trying to trick the licence software, and should put my clock back if I am not to get into trouble. This is a real pain.

hi ralphrmartin! We are aware of this behavior and its something that we hope to change in future builds. LabSpokane is correct in that the license manager is causing the alert. Of course, its all Keysight software and we need to work internally to ensure that users don't have these types of experiences. Your use case and feedback has been captured and I hope to see a positive fix for this issue in future releases.

~David

[BenchVue Team]

The instrument command sets - is there a way for me to generate these myself from Generic SCPI commands? Or would I have to write IVI drivers to do this?

Also, exporting into  C, C#, VB.NET, MATLAB, and Excel is great. But Excel exports as CSV (which I guess is used by the Excel Add-In) but I can't find export for old fashioned VBA / VBScript code - which is what Excel uses.

Anyway I have to play with this some more...

Macbeth, I'm glad that you find Command Expert so valuable. This software is more focused on beginning programmers to T&M and I believe that many users can benefit from the CE experience. If BenchVue doesn't provide what you need, perhaps Command Expert might. Command expert does not enable the capability for users to generate their own command sets from SCPI commands. Its a bit of a complicated story but it involves access to instrument firmware and other internal bits of information that is generally not available for the public.

If you are able to generate IVI drivers, the CE will automatically import the command set which means that you can use third party ivi drivers.

~David

[HighVoltage]

Thanks for the update, but I do not see a green update flag.
May it is because my Pro Trial DMM App has expired?

The pro trial should not have any affect on the ability to see and download the update. Let me know if you still aren't seeing the update as it's been a few days since it has been published.

No, still the same, I do not see an update button or flag for that App
I will install it tomorrow on another PC, may be that one will work.

[LabSpokane]

BenchVueTeam,

Thanks for jumping on here and enduring the armchair software engineering.  I know it is not easy to be on the receiving end.  

[GlowingGhoul]

BenchVueTeam,

Thanks for jumping on here and enduring the armchair software engineering.  I know it is not easy to be on the receiving end.

Yes, definitely. Please don't get scared off. Keysight engaging with users this way reflects very well on the company. Please, keep it up!

[quantumvolt]

Tangent Topic / RE: Command Expert


Cannot find DependencyProperty or PropertyInfo for property named 'VirtualizationMode'. Property names are case sensitive.  Error at object 'System.Windows.Controls.TreeView' in markup file 'Agilent.CommandExpert.CommandExpertLib;component/controls/misc/examplepane/examplepane.xaml'.

Orphaned:

Forum question:
http://www.keysight.com/owc_discussions/thread.jspa?messageID=120503&tstart=0

Comment in:
' www    .youtube.com/watch?v=lEtoUvfB5TE '

Same message on an Acer Aspire 4540 winsleaze xp sp3 box on download a few days ago. Another similar os 2009 or so Compaq runs the same CE download w/o problems.

[Wuerstchenhund]

@Bencvue Team:

The Excel plugin of Command Expert doesn't seem to work with the 64bit versions of Excel (I've tried 2010 and 2013), although there's no warning or similar when installing. Are there any plans/an ETA for when Command Expert will be compatible with 64bit Excel?

[rosbuitre]

BenchVueTeam,

Thanks for jumping on here and enduring the armchair software engineering.  I know it is not easy to be on the receiving end.

Yes, definitely. Please don't get scared off. Keysight engaging with users this way reflects very well on the company. Please, keep it up!

 

[BenchVue Team]

BenchVueTeam,

Thanks for jumping on here and enduring the armchair software engineering.  I know it is not easy to be on the receiving end.

Yes, definitely. Please don't get scared off. Keysight engaging with users this way reflects very well on the company. Please, keep it up!

 

We appreciate the warm welcome and the Dave's blessing to speak with the community here. We have wanted to engage for a long time and don't plan on going anywhere.  If it takes a while for us to respond at times it just means we are working on BenchVue, we'll answer when time permits.

Regarding the Command Expert questions above, we are not CE experts but will work on getting some answers and private message folks on those.

~Jeff

[georges80]

@Bencvue Team:

The Excel plugin of Command Expert doesn't seem to work with the 64bit versions of Excel (I've tried 2010 and 2013), although there's no warning or similar when installing. Are there any plans/an ETA for when Command Expert will be compatible with 64bit Excel?

How doesn't it work? I have Excel 64 bit 2013 (running on windows 7 64bit) and the plugin seems to work just fine. I've transferred data from it to my 33250A via the plugin and it transfers correctly and the ARB waveform works as it should.

cheers,
george.