BenchVue 3.0 now available – ask the BenchVue team anything

[BenchVue Team]

Hey EEVBlog members! We’re part of the Keysight BenchVue team and we are here to answer your questions on BenchVue. We’ll be monitoring this thread to answer your questions. Ask us anything!

Our new 3.0 release has some really useful new features that enhance your bench. Some new features include:
-   An all new design of the digitizer section of the DMM app
-   WaveGen support for over 70 oscilloscopes. WaveGen is the function generator option built into many oscilloscopes
-   New models are supported for a total of over 300 Keysight instrument models
-   A smaller download package that includes apps for the most commonly used instruments
-   New Test Flow app that allows you to create automated  sequences within BenchVue. This app is designed for you to rapidly prototype customize your own tests. Check out our BenchVue Test Flow Youtube Playlist for more information.


-   A new app tab that shows you what apps you have installed and information about each app including what instruments are supported by that app. You can use the app tab to update apps, initiate trial periods, and install licenses.

For more information about BenchVue we have a bunch of videos found here:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2XuMA5AwNUxs50YwvEy_5AHu8Hg6l8VM

You can download the new version at www.keysight.com/find/benchvue.

Regards,
David
Brian
Jeff

[AndyC_772]

Hi guys,

I tried out a previous version of BenchVue shortly after I bought my 34465A meter.

As I know you appreciate, test equipment needs to be boringly dependable and reliable. Your instruments generally are, which is why I've more-or-less standardised on them in my lab. They generally work really well.

That's why I was disappointed with the stability of BenchVue. The install process didn't go smoothly, and the software itself just wasn't stable enough in use. I'd love to give you more details, but alas I uninstalled the software soon after deciding I was better off without it.

Has reliability, stability and ease-of-use been a high development priority in this release? Or has it been primarily about adding features?

Much as I hate to say it, I was also disappointed to see silly limitations in the free version, like the limit on data logging time. I've spent a lot of money on HP / Agilent / Keysight equipment, and finding myself being asked to pay even more just to remove artificial limitations on a tool which would help them all work together is irksome. Please reconsider this business decision.

Andy.

[tszaboo]

Hello,
Based on the user guide:
I see there is still no support for the 3458A, no matter the interface or Ethernet bridge. I'm very disappointed.
The software team had to spend several days to write a calibration (for our stuff) script for it, and now modifying it, or writing a new one is a management decision, being a big hassle.
I would really like if one of your software would finally really support that unmatched meter.
Also, I would like an interface which looks like it is designed by and for engineers. Meaning ribbon and white background, not some fancy gray something with custom buttons and such.
For the moment I've updated from 2.xxx and it crashes on start, so not very happy about it.

[gslick]

Any chance you would add support for the Mobile Communications DC Source 663xx series?

I have some 66309D that might be interesting to use with BenchVue.

[AndyC_772]

If we're on the subject of equipment support, is there any chance it'll ever be able to download data from my HP 4395A network analyser?

(Long shot, I know, but it would be really worthwhile... not sure how much longer it'll be physically possible to use floppy discs to get data off it!)

[AlxDroidDev]

I just bought a Keysight DSO1072B, but I am forced to use an outdated version of IntuiLink.

Is there any chance Keysight will make BenchVue compatible with my DSO1072B ?

[Macbeth]

Any chance you would add support for the Mobile Communications DC Source 663xx series?

They could start by writing a driver for the 663x series System DC PSU's. Then it is just another few SCPI commands to tack on for the 663xx versions.

[G0HZU]

If we're on the subject of equipment support, is there any chance it'll ever be able to download data from my HP 4395A network analyser?
(Long shot, I know, but it would be really worthwhile... not sure how much longer it'll be physically possible to use floppy discs to get data off it!)

You could try using Softplot but this isn't free.

http://www.aphena.com/sptorder.htm

I use this at work a fair bit. However, despite having loads of old HP4396 analysers at work, I don't think I've tried using them with Softplot. But it does work fine with oldish analysers like the HP8714 or the 8753 series. You can export plots or S parameter data from the VNA via GPIB. It also works with various spectrum analysers.

I tried out Benchvue at work nearly a year ago to do a load of screenshot captures from a PSA spectrum analyser. It did OK but was a bit fussy to run and it wasn't totally stable. However, it got the job done.

The alternative is to write something yourself.

For my old E4406A signal analyser I wrote a Windows app to grab high quality screenshots from it via GPIB to PC. This was heavily based on Agilent's own E4406A VBasic sample code for this and it works really well so I hardly had to change their code to suit my needs. You can grab and view and save multiple screenshots in gif format like taking pictures with a camera if you customise their code a bit and provide the screen space on the PC monitor to hold all the images. It saves them all to the HDD at the same time.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Hey EEVBlog members! We’re part of the Keysight BenchVue team and we are here to answer your questions on BenchVue. We’ll be monitoring this thread to answer your questions. Ask us anything!

Is the BenchVue Mobile Android app available via other means than Google Play store only?

http://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=GB&lc=eng&ckey=2428702&nid=-32762.1080833&id=2428702

Considering that not all Android devices can have Google Play (and not everyone wants to run Android with the invasive Google Services), and that this is an app that targets technically savy people (engineers), I'd think that a direct download of the apk file could be offered. Failing that, at least put it on the Amazon Android Store as well.

[BenchVue Team]

AndyC_772 - BenchVue's quality goal is the same as for our hardware; uncompromising quality. Our R&D team has strived to design and test as many combinations and scenarios as we can. BenchVue has had some road bumps in stability and we have received reports of crashes. This release and past releases have tried to address those. If a particular user setup has caused some stability issues, please use BenchVue's built-in reporting to send a report to our support team. We take all of our support issues seriously and try to resolve them with either the user or with our development team.

BenchVue's design focus is to be easy to use. We strongly feel that many engineers are starved for time and learning an instrument can be time consuming especially when using it with a PC. BenchVue tries to offer a software tool that allows for the most common tasks to be completed easily with a short learning curve. We are hard at work trying to add new features but at our core we need to be simple to learn.

As for the limitations in the free version, we are always looking at business scenarios and determining what is most valuable for the consumer and how Keysight's business is affected. T&M is a very competitive space and we want to keep providing valuable free offerings.

~David

[BenchVue Team]

Hello,
Based on the user guide:
I see there is still no support for the 3458A, no matter the interface or Ethernet bridge. I'm very disappointed.
The software team had to spend several days to write a calibration (for our stuff) script for it, and now modifying it, or writing a new one is a management decision, being a big hassle.
I would really like if one of your software would finally really support that unmatched meter.
Also, I would like an interface which looks like it is designed by and for engineers. Meaning ribbon and white background, not some fancy gray something with custom buttons and such.
For the moment I've updated from 2.xxx and it crashes on start, so not very happy about it.

Thank you for your input. The 3458A is a special DMM, I had the pleasure of redesigning the production test system for it many years ago and it is still the highest performing DMM in Keysight's arsenal. While the 3458A is not supported at this release, we are continuing to add new models all the time. I will make sure that it is included in our product planning and considered for future support.

This will be true for all requests in this thread. Development and SQ (software quality) takes time and resources but please voice your opinion on what types of instruments you would like to see supported. We will be keeping track of this thread and are actively working to add instruments.

BenchVue is designed by engineers for engineers. The engineers that we focus on are users that aren't programmers and want to be able to accomplish a task simply. BenchVue is Keysight's answer for users that have struggled to connect their PC to their instrument. For users that need to document their results but still use a camera to take a screenshot. For users that need to visualize their results in a graph but might struggle with the various data types and keeping track of results. We have had feedback on our user interface and are constantly working on improvements. I can't speak of future plans in detail but the gray background feedback has been taken to heart.

If you are already experiencing crashes, please use the built in feedback tool that BenchVue has (if BenchVue allows you to get that far). If not, we would be glad to work with you to solve your problem. Feel free to PM us on the EEBlog and we can work with you to get it resolved.

~David

[AndyC_772]

BenchVue is Keysight's answer for users that have struggled to connect their PC to their instrument. For users that need to document their results but still use a camera to take a screenshot.

OK, this is cool. Capturing screen shots from an instrument with an Ethernet port and a built-in web server is easy, but there's a massive opportunity here to update and support older equipment.

I know my 4395A is old, but it works perfectly, and it's providing me with a capability that there's simply no way I could have if I had to pay for newer kit with luxuries like USB and Ethernet built in.

If you're looking for reasons to charge for BenchVue, don't do it by putting in limitations and then charging to take them out again. Do it by adding support for instruments that are still in service but which would otherwise be difficult to interface with modern equipment.

I'd pay for a software package that would let me control my 4395A from a PC via a generic GPIB-to-USB adapter. Not silly money, of course, because I *can* still use floppy discs, but the current cost of the 'full' version of BenchVue would certainly become justifiable.

[nctnico]

I have not looked at Benchvue at all so my question may be stupid: I see a lot of requests for supporting additional instruments. Is there a way to add support for an instrument by yourself (scripting, DLL, etc)?

[Macbeth]

How about adding "plug-ins" with a standard API so people could develop instrument drivers themselves and share with community? All that work on the nice GUI and stuff has been done, more instrument drivers are going to be behind the scenes SCPI and maybe some image uploads to make it all pretty. Good ones could be included by Keysight as standard distribution with new versions of BenchVue?

[rosbuitre]

Hi guys
Good to see you around here, have always responded to all question of my BV, excellent predisposition, is appreciated 

Regards
Osvaldo - Rosario

[HighVoltage]

Thank you for the release v3 of BenchVue
I have been using BenchVue for over a year now and it works really great for the applications I had.

Integrating more instruments, like the counters 53220A and 53230A would be really great!

[georges80]

I have a 33250A and have tried your benchlink waveform software. The 'trial/unlicensed' version is quite limited and the 'list' at $766 for the complete version is a heck of a lot of $$ for not much capability.

Seems a very rudimentary piece of software to charge so much for. Given the test equipment is already premium priced and a large investment, the software costs are just another painful pill to swallow/justify. Maybe a large company doesn't see that as an expense, but for the little guy that's a lot of money for what is just a 'drawing' program...

cheers,
george.

[BenchVue Team]

How about adding "plug-ins" with a standard API so people could develop instrument drivers themselves and share with community? All that work on the nice GUI and stuff has been done, more instrument drivers are going to be behind the scenes SCPI and maybe some image uploads to make it all pretty. Good ones could be included by Keysight as standard distribution with new versions of BenchVue?

As of right now we have a list of instruments that BenchVue supports (www.keysight.com/find/benchvueinstruments). What does BenchVue instrument support mean? By plugging your supported instrument into your PC via USB, LAN, or GPIB. BenchVue can recognize the instrument model number, come up with a small thumbnail of the actual instrument, and recognize what type of instrument it is so that the right app opens. When the right app opens, the appropriate controls and measurement capabilities are shown.

I am very encouraged to hear that people recognize the nice value that BenchVue brings and want the ability to add their own. Message has been received and we will see what we can do about it.

As a side note, if you are a bit of a programmer, you can use the SCPI block in BenchVue Test Flow to send commands to any SCPI enabled instrument. Test Flow is a new app and it brings a level of flexibility that BenchVue has not had before.

~David

[BenchVue Team]

Hey EEVBlog members! We’re part of the Keysight BenchVue team and we are here to answer your questions on BenchVue. We’ll be monitoring this thread to answer your questions. Ask us anything!

Is the BenchVue Mobile Android app available via other means than Google Play store only?

http://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=GB&lc=eng&ckey=2428702&nid=-32762.1080833&id=2428702

Considering that not all Android devices can have Google Play (and not everyone wants to run Android with the invasive Google Services), and that this is an app that targets technically savy people (engineers), I'd think that a direct download of the apk file could be offered. Failing that, at least put it on the Amazon Android Store as well.

I'll see what I can do about this. Give me a few days and I'll update this thread.
~David

[nctnico]

How about adding "plug-ins" with a standard API so people could develop instrument drivers themselves and share with community? All that work on the nice GUI and stuff has been done, more instrument drivers are going to be behind the scenes SCPI and maybe some image uploads to make it all pretty. Good ones could be included by Keysight as standard distribution with new versions of BenchVue?

As of right now we have a list of instruments that BenchVue supports (www.keysight.com/find/benchvueinstruments). What does BenchVue instrument support mean? By plugging your supported instrument into your PC via USB, LAN, or GPIB. BenchVue can recognize the instrument model number, come up with a small thumbnail of the actual instrument, and recognize what type of instrument it is so that the right app opens. When the right app opens, the appropriate controls and measurement capabilities are shown.

I am very encouraged to hear that people recognize the nice value that BenchVue brings and want the ability to add their own. Message has been received and we will see what we can do about it.

As a side note, if you are a bit of a programmer, you can use the SCPI block in BenchVue Test Flow to send commands to any SCPI enabled instrument. Test Flow is a new app and it brings a level of flexibility that BenchVue has not had before.

That SCPI block sounds interesting. One of the purposes I can think off is to set an RF generator to a certain output frequency and then read the level from a spectrum analyser. A poor man's spectrum analyser with tracking generator so to say.

[Macbeth]

And by the sounds of it, not using some perverse GUI programming method like LabVIEW! (that thing twists my melon man - even after I have deleted all files in a project, de-installed and re-installed LabVIEW, nothing short of reinstalling Windows on clean HDD stops it from "remembering" some fuckup I did. I really HATE it for that!)

[Fred27]

Hey EEVBlog members! ... Ask us anything!

Why are cows big and mice small? Why don't you get cows the size of mice, or mice the size of cows?

[Messtechniker]

Hey EEVBlog members! We’re part of the Keysight BenchVue team and we are here to answer your questions on BenchVue. We’ll be monitoring this thread to answer your questions. Ask us anything!

Well, unfortunately the BenchVue 3.0 update did not work out well for me. The older version (2.7 I think) worked but did not see much use. The update installed with an error message of some sort which I don’t remember. My Keysight 34465A appeared at the bottom in the list but when selecting it for operation BenchVue 3.0 crashed (Windows 7 32 bit with dual screens). After this I uninstalled the whole affair because I was bent on doing something productive (see my contribution here - No. 4 in https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/building-your-own-voltage-reference-the-jvr/60/), instead of troubleshooting a programme I intended not to use very much anyway. Sorry folks.


Yours – Messtechniker

[BenchVue Team]

That SCPI block sounds interesting. One of the purposes I can think off is to set an RF generator to a certain output frequency and then read the level from a spectrum analyser. A poor man's spectrum analyser with tracking generator so to say.

Exactly! Even though BenchVue doesn't currently support RF Sig Gens, if Connection Expert can find it, BenchVue's SCPI block allows you to control it, and I did so with an N5182B MXG. It's only a few commands to set the power level, mode and frequency and turn on the output. Now, synchronizing an MXA with the MXG to make a network analyzer, well, that's not as trivial, although you certainly could do it point by point in a loop, export the data to Excel and use Excel to plot it. The SCPI block allows you to read data, but it has to be fairly simple - boolean, double or string. So you can't do a screen capture for example. Still, it is a great new feature. We had a lot of requests for that.

Brian

[nctnico]

No way to show such a graph in Benchvue?

[LaurentR]

Hey EEVBlog members! We’re part of the Keysight BenchVue team and we are here to answer your questions on BenchVue. We’ll be monitoring this thread to answer your questions. Ask us anything!

Well, unfortunately the BenchVue 3.0 update did not work out well for me. The older version (2.7 I think) worked but did not see much use. The update installed with an error message of some sort which I don’t remember. My Keysight 34465A appeared at the bottom in the list but when selecting it for operation BenchVue 3.0 crashed (Windows 7 32 bit with dual screens). After this I uninstalled the whole affair because I was bent on doing something productive (see my contribution here - No. 4 in https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/building-your-own-voltage-reference-the-jvr/60/), instead of troubleshooting a programme I intended not to use very much anyway. Sorry folks.


Yours – Messtechniker

I reported the 34465A bug to Keysight last week and they confirmed it and said they are working on a hot fix.

Looks like the issue is that they are trying to use a DIG-option function, and if the option is not enabled, the DMM returns an error, which spooks BV.

Looks like they only tested on fully optioned units ?
Works fine on the 34461A.

Laurent

[LaurentR]

One thing I'd like to see in BV is synchronized acquisition/display of multiple instruments (DMMs in my case), i.e.  having the same time base / x axis and two curves on the y axis instead of having different fully independent windows.

[BenchVue Team]

Hey EEVBlog members! ... Ask us anything!

Why are cows big and mice small? Why don't you get cows the size of mice, or mice the size of cows?

A: Evolution.  Also, don't plan on that being the case forever.

Well, unfortunately the BenchVue 3.0 update did not work out well for me. The older version (2.7 I think) worked but did not see much use. The update installed with an error message of some sort which I don’t remember. My Keysight 34465A appeared at the bottom in the list but when selecting it for operation BenchVue 3.0 crashed (Windows 7 32 bit with dual screens). After this I uninstalled the whole affair because I was bent on doing something productive (see my contribution here - No. 4 in https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/building-your-own-voltage-reference-the-jvr/60/), instead of troubleshooting a programme I intended not to use very much anyway. Sorry folks.

Truly sorry you experienced installation issues Messtechniker.  If you do decide to give BenchVue another try please contact us directly via PM and we will attempt to resolve the issue you encountered.  We are aware of a current issue with the 34465A without the digitizer option, that fix is coming shortly.  Without knowing more about your situation I can't claim its the issue you encountered.

No way to show such a graph in Benchvue?

Edit: Not presently.

One thing I'd like to see in BV is synchronized acquisition/display of multiple instruments (DMMs in my case), i.e.  having the same time base / x axis and two curves on the y axis instead of having different fully independent windows.

Great idea, we'll make sure the team considers it for future improvements.
~Jeff

[Wuerstchenhund]

Hey EEVBlog members! We’re part of the Keysight BenchVue team and we are here to answer your questions on BenchVue. We’ll be monitoring this thread to answer your questions. Ask us anything!

Is the BenchVue Mobile Android app available via other means than Google Play store only?

http://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=GB&lc=eng&ckey=2428702&nid=-32762.1080833&id=2428702

Considering that not all Android devices can have Google Play (and not everyone wants to run Android with the invasive Google Services), and that this is an app that targets technically savy people (engineers), I'd think that a direct download of the apk file could be offered. Failing that, at least put it on the Amazon Android Store as well.

I'll see what I can do about this. Give me a few days and I'll update this thread.
~David

Great! Thanks!

[Messtechniker]

Truly sorry you experienced installation issues Messtechniker.  If you do decide to give BenchVue another try please contact us directly via PM and we will attempt to resolve the issue you encountered.  We are aware of a current issue with the 34465A without the digitizer option, that fix is coming shortly.  Without knowing more about your situation I can't claim its the issue you encountered.

Thank you for you fast response an your offer to resolve the problem.
Since a remedy is in the pipeline and the matter is not urgent to me,
I can easily wait for the hot fix. Just ring the bell when its ready .

Yours  - Messtechniker

[BenchVue Team]

I have a 33250A and have tried your benchlink waveform software. The 'trial/unlicensed' version is quite limited and the 'list' at $766 for the complete version is a heck of a lot of $$ for not much capability.

Seems a very rudimentary piece of software to charge so much for. Given the test equipment is already premium priced and a large investment, the software costs are just another painful pill to swallow/justify. Maybe a large company doesn't see that as an expense, but for the little guy that's a lot of money for what is just a 'drawing' program...

cheers,
george.

Hi George.  We appreciate you taking the time to provide the feedback.  Keysight's prices do attempt to reflect all the engineering, manufacturing, support and yes marketing that goes into creating and selling the products.  I don't have an alternate answer for you at this time but did want to acknowledge your comment.

Thank you for the release v3 of BenchVue
I have been using BenchVue for over a year now and it works really great for the applications I had.

Integrating more instruments, like the counters 53220A and 53230A would be really great!

Thanks for the positive feedback, the team feeds off of all the customer compliments the product has got over the past year.  Regarding the counters, we will make sure our team considers them in future versions.  As a longer term user you know we continue to add support for new models regularly.

~Jeff

[lukaq]

If there is any way, use less number of services in windows in future builds, if that is possible. Don't use BV all the time and since am on pretty limited resource machine, I need to turn off BV services, since I can't do nothing like that from BV itself

[SimonD]

Hi BenchVue guys,
i have an old good HP 54602B oscilloscope. Is there any chance for all of us with old good stuff to see any support for BenchVue in the near future ?
Thanks in advance for your answer.

[tszaboo]

Thank you for your input. The 3458A is a special DMM, I had the pleasure of redesigning the production test system for it many years ago and it is still the highest performing DMM in Keysight's arsenal. While the 3458A is not supported at this release, we are continuing to add new models all the time. I will make sure that it is included in our product planning and considered for future support.

This will be true for all requests in this thread. Development and SQ (software quality) takes time and resources but please voice your opinion on what types of instruments you would like to see supported. We will be keeping track of this thread and are actively working to add instruments.

BenchVue is designed by engineers for engineers. The engineers that we focus on are users that aren't programmers and want to be able to accomplish a task simply. BenchVue is Keysight's answer for users that have struggled to connect their PC to their instrument. For users that need to document their results but still use a camera to take a screenshot. For users that need to visualize their results in a graph but might struggle with the various data types and keeping track of results. We have had feedback on our user interface and are constantly working on improvements. I can't speak of future plans in detail but the gray background feedback has been taken to heart.

If you are already experiencing crashes, please use the built in feedback tool that BenchVue has (if BenchVue allows you to get that far). If not, we would be glad to work with you to solve your problem. Feel free to PM us on the EEBlog and we can work with you to get it resolved.

~David

Well, thank you, it is good to hear. I'm pleased with the 3458A, if only data collection would be a little easier.
I have a special thinking about UIs, most of the time, less is more. I also dont like programs, which "reinvent the button" for the user interface, but at least this one is consistent.
After a restart, the 3.0 version started working, so I'm going to say it was an user error.

[Wuerstchenhund]

I have a 33250A and have tried your benchlink waveform software. The 'trial/unlicensed' version is quite limited and the 'list' at $766 for the complete version is a heck of a lot of $$ for not much capability.

Seems a very rudimentary piece of software to charge so much for. Given the test equipment is already premium priced and a large investment, the software costs are just another painful pill to swallow/justify. Maybe a large company doesn't see that as an expense, but for the little guy that's a lot of money for what is just a 'drawing' program...

Hi George.  We appreciate you taking the time to provide the feedback.  Keysight's prices do attempt to reflect all the engineering, manufacturing, support and yes marketing that goes into creating and selling the products.  I don't have an alternate answer for you at this time but did want to acknowledge your comment.

I just want to chime in and say that I have to agree with George, the individual 'Pro' modules are pretty expensive for what they do.

I regularly buy test equipment for medium-sized and large corporations, and the general interest in BV seems to be pretty limited, mostly due to price. There's a (not completely unjustified) view that Keysight's instruments are already priced at the upper end of the spectrum, and it's expected that some of that price should carry the availability of add-on tools like BV and that at least some of the charged for functionality should reasonably be included in the free version of BV, plus the 'Pro' upgrade price should be lower.

At the end of the day, from what I see I'm sure that Keysight could sell a lot more 'Pro' modules if the price was closer to $300 to $400 than the $700+ as it is now.

Also, don't forget that the availability of a decently priced test software can be a great marketing tool.
 

[Wuerstchenhund]

Hey EEVBlog members! We’re part of the Keysight BenchVue team and we are here to answer your questions on BenchVue. We’ll be monitoring this thread to answer your questions. Ask us anything!

Another thing:

The BenchVue Spectrum Analyzer module seems to support the PSA Series, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to include the E4406A VSA (which is essentially just a cut-down PSA).

I know that the E4406A is unsupported, but considering that it's basically just another PSA it would be great if it could be supported in BV. There are still lots of E4406A's around and in use.

[BenchVue Team]

If there is any way, use less number of services in windows in future builds, if that is possible. Don't use BV all the time and since am on pretty limited resource machine, I need to turn off BV services, since I can't do nothing like that from BV itself

If you are not actively running an activity in BenchVue the CPU consumption should be very small, if you see something different please let us know via PM and we'll attempt to diagnose the cause.  Is it possible are you referring to RAM utilization while keeping BV open in the background?

Hi BenchVue guys,
i have an old good HP 54602B oscilloscope. Is there any chance for all of us with old good stuff to see any support for BenchVue in the near future ?
Thanks in advance for your answer.

Glad to hear your HP scope continues to serve you well.  There is a chance of future formal support but we are focused on supporting our more recent products.  It is possible to use the SCPI Block in Test Flow to do some things via BenchVue, but it is a more manual process not reflecting the turnkey functionality found in the BenchVue oscilloscope app.

I just want to chime in and say that I have to agree with George, the individual 'Pro' modules are pretty expensive for what they do...

Thanks for the feedback.  We do regularly evaluate our pricing strategy based on all the things I mentioned earlier.  BenchVue does provide a lot of capability for no cost, but as a consumer ourselves we certainly appreciate wanting to get as much value as possible when buying things.   

The BenchVue Spectrum Analyzer module seems to support the PSA Series, but unfortunately that doesn't seem to include the E4406A VSA (which is essentially just a cut-down PSA).

I know that the E4406A is unsupported, but considering that it's basically just another PSA it would be great if it could be supported in BV. There are still lots of E4406A's around and in use.

Like the other requested models, we will be certain to include this VSA for consideration in future support.  Thanks.

~Jeff

[PioB]

Over the past week I measured input leakage currents of a few MCU using a loaner BV2902 SMU. The test flow update could not have come timelier, thank you very much. The scratch-inspired programming made it very easy to set the measurement up and run it. Two enhancements I would greatly wish for are
-an undo-button for whatever I did last, change in program, setting,...
-directly editable fields for text entry (at the moments it's pop ups with the cursor never at the location I need it) I wish to be able to click somewhere in a file name e.g. and stay typing right there and not have to click at the correct spot in a second window.
Thank you very much for a very helpful  program and for listening to your customers and for your excellent support, also via mail.

Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk

[free_electron]

@keysight : Great work guys !

[BenchVue Team]

One thing I'd like to see in BV is synchronized acquisition/display of multiple instruments (DMMs in my case), i.e.  having the same time base / x axis and two curves on the y axis instead of having different fully independent windows.

Although you can't get one graph in BenchVue, you can now synchronize multiple DMMs by using the vastly improved Digitizer option in the DMM Pro app. Using external trigger, it is easy to set up multiple DMMs to capture various signals at the exact same time. Use "Export All" to put exported data from all DMMs into a single Excel spreadsheet, one DMM per tab. Each DMM will have the same timestamps, all relative to 0 instead of time of day as before. This makes it easy to cut and paste the data columns from all tabs into one, then use Excel's standard charting feature to get them all on one graph. I've made a video showing how to do this, available on Dropbox at:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/232v7ecojkyntne/two_dmm_digi.mp4?dl=0

And by the way, the video shows how to use multiple external triggers and 1 Sample/trigger, so that two completely different DMMs with different internal sample rates can be synchronized. This requires another instrument to generate the triggers. I used a 33521 as a pulse generator for this. If precise timing is not required, you can instead use the VM Complete output out of one to trigger the other, making the data for the 2nd DMM off by one measurement period. If you have two identical DMMs, such as two 34465As, you can use a single external trigger and then change the sample count (and sample interval) to gather the data. The sample subsystem can be run faster than the trigger subsystem, but both modes are now available to you.

Brian

[LaurentR]

One thing I'd like to see in BV is synchronized acquisition/display of multiple instruments (DMMs in my case), i.e.  having the same time base / x axis and two curves on the y axis instead of having different fully independent windows.

Although you can't get one graph in BenchVue, you can now synchronize multiple DMMs by using the vastly improved Digitizer option in the DMM Pro app. Using external trigger, it is easy to set up multiple DMMs to capture various signals at the exact same time. Use "Export All" to put exported data from all DMMs into a single Excel spreadsheet, one DMM per tab. Each DMM will have the same timestamps, all relative to 0 instead of time of day as before. This makes it easy to cut and paste the data columns from all tabs into one, then use Excel's standard charting feature to get them all on one graph. I've made a video showing how to do this, available on Dropbox at:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/232v7ecojkyntne/two_dmm_digi.mp4?dl=0

And by the way, the video shows how to use multiple external triggers and 1 Sample/trigger, so that two completely different DMMs with different internal sample rates can be synchronized. This requires another instrument to generate the triggers. I used a 33521 as a pulse generator for this. If precise timing is not required, you can instead use the VM Complete output out of one to trigger the other, making the data for the 2nd DMM off by one measurement period. If you have two identical DMMs, such as two 34465As, you can use a single external trigger and then change the sample count (and sample interval) to gather the data. The sample subsystem can be run faster than the trigger subsystem, but both modes are now available to you.

Brian

Thanks!
BTW, in BV2, there was a poor man's digitizing function for the 34461A which was really nice. Strangely, that function was not available on a 34465A without the DIG option, which doesn't make sense. Is BV3 different? I'd check but BV3 doesn't work with the 34465A without DIG option :-)

[Karel]

Somehow I can't find the download link for the Linux version...

[BenchVue Team]

Thanks!
BTW, in BV2, there was a poor man's digitizing function for the 34461A which was really nice. Strangely, that function was not available on a 34465A without the DIG option, which doesn't make sense. Is BV3 different? I'd check but BV3 doesn't work with the 34465A without DIG option :-)

The Digitizer option in the DMM App was pretty basic in BV2, so we gave it its own tab and greatly enhanced it in BV3. The 34465A/70A won't bring up the Digitizer tab unless you have the DIG option in the instrument. The 34461A didn't have that option. And BV3 *will* work with the 34465A without the DIG option shortly. That's a bug we have fixed and are testing now. You won't get the Digitizer tab, but you'll be able to use the instrument.

Brian

[TiN]

First off, it's great to see you guys and this thread here. It does pay off to get direct feedback from pro's and hobbyists, who using T&M gear daily. Sub'd to thread.

Also join 3458A support request, as this special DMM have the performance, just lack easiness of modern gear interfacing, specially on high-speed digitizing aspect of it. While supplied documentation does provide code examples and extensive details how to interface meter, it all require somewhat obsolete programming, and need to be adjusted for modern standards.

I did not study all BenchVue documentation, but is there a function to have it upload CSV/data automatically using FTP/file mechanism? For long-time (days+) experiments and data-logging it's a needed feature, when user can leave little PC running BenchVue to collect data and upload to server for realtime data access remotely. If not, it should not be very difficult to implement, given standard OS APIs, AFAIK. I used LabView for 34970A for that matter, but it's overkill for simple data gathering into CSV on network share.

One more thing. I know it's lot to ask, but perhaps in some future (v4.0? ) would be great to see BenchVue support 3rd-party DLL/scripting API to expose SCPI interface, so people can add custom functionality to support their equipment. It could possibly widen usability of BenchVue for many more people, than just Keysight instrument owners. That's what other products like NI's LabView have stronghold in, can work with anything, not limited to single brand/tool. Free hint - you can even have some section on website for users to share their setups and libraries across, just like what happening now here when someone post piece of software to interface particular tool, and others use it.

[free_electron]

Somehow I can't find the download link for the Linux version...

Try at www.microsoft.com

[lukaq]

If there is any way, use less number of services in windows in future builds, if that is possible. Don't use BV all the time and since am on pretty limited resource machine, I need to turn off BV services, since I can't do nothing like that from BV itself

If you are not actively running an activity in BenchVue the CPU consumption should be very small, if you see something different please let us know via PM and we'll attempt to diagnose the cause.  Is it possible are you referring to RAM utilization while keeping BV open in the background?

App is closed, not open in the background. CPU is at 0%, since process for BV is not running, but there are some other processes that are needed once you run BV, that are always running. I can find which they are and are needed for BV3. Some may be for older version of BV, the "Agilent DMM"

[nctnico]

Somehow I can't find the download link for the Linux version...

On that note: Is anyone running Benchvue from Virtualbox? It would be nice if I know it works or not before trying...

[BenchVue Team]

I did not study all BenchVue documentation, but is there a function to have it upload CSV/data automatically using FTP/file mechanism? For long-time (days+) experiments and data-logging it's a needed feature, when user can leave little PC running BenchVue to collect data and upload to server for realtime data access remotely. If not, it should not be very difficult to implement, given standard OS APIs, AFAIK. I used LabView for 34970A for that matter, but it's overkill for simple data gathering into CSV on network share.

One more thing. I know it's lot to ask, but perhaps in some future (v4.0? ) would be great to see BenchVue support 3rd-party DLL/scripting API to expose SCPI interface, so people can add custom functionality to support their equipment. It could possibly widen usability of BenchVue for many more people, than just Keysight instrument owners. That's what other products like NI's LabView have stronghold in, can work with anything, not limited to single brand/tool. Free hint - you can even have some section on website for users to share their setups and libraries across, just like what happening now here when someone post piece of software to interface particular tool, and others use it.

There is no automatic upload utility. You can export to a CSV file at the completion of logging. But there's no real-time upload capability.

As for SCPI, you can use the SCPI block on any instrument that can be located by the IO Libraries - even 3458's (non-SCPI, but any ASCII language is supported as long as responses have a "?" in the command string) and competitive equipment. It shows up as a "hidden" instrument in an icon at the lower right of the instrument bar. The VISA address can be selected from a pull-down list in the SCPI block.

Brian

[Mr Simpleton]

If we're on the subject of equipment support, is there any chance it'll ever be able to download data from my HP 4395A network analyser?

(Long shot, I know, but it would be really worthwhile... not sure how much longer it'll be physically possible to use floppy discs to get data off it!)

I would not shell up £1400 for a data transfer software... but have you tried out the free (as in gratis) VNA utility from John Miles? Works like charm and I use it for both the 8753 and 8510 and a NI GPIB-to-USB dongle. www.ke5fx.com Could not be simpler

[BenchVue Team]

One thing I'd like to see in BV is synchronized acquisition/display of multiple instruments (DMMs in my case), i.e.  having the same time base / x axis and two curves on the y axis instead of having different fully independent windows.

Although you can't get one graph in BenchVue, you can now synchronize multiple DMMs by using the vastly improved Digitizer option in the DMM Pro app. Using external trigger, it is easy to set up multiple DMMs to capture various signals at the exact same time. Use "Export All" to put exported data from all DMMs into a single Excel spreadsheet, one DMM per tab. Each DMM will have the same timestamps, all relative to 0 instead of time of day as before. This makes it easy to cut and paste the data columns from all tabs into one, then use Excel's standard charting feature to get them all on one graph. I've made a video showing how to do this, available on Dropbox at:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/232v7ecojkyntne/two_dmm_digi.mp4?dl=0

And by the way, the video shows how to use multiple external triggers and 1 Sample/trigger, so that two completely different DMMs with different internal sample rates can be synchronized. This requires another instrument to generate the triggers. I used a 33521 as a pulse generator for this. If precise timing is not required, you can instead use the VM Complete output out of one to trigger the other, making the data for the 2nd DMM off by one measurement period. If you have two identical DMMs, such as two 34465As, you can use a single external trigger and then change the sample count (and sample interval) to gather the data. The sample subsystem can be run faster than the trigger subsystem, but both modes are now available to you.

Brian

Another alternative solution might be of interest to those reading this thread as well. Using the Test Flow app, you can easily have two DMM readings one after another. While this isn't truly time synchronized (the readings will be offset by the time it takes the first DMM to take a reading) it might be a solution for those who are not as sensitive to time.

In the attached image I created a simple sequence that sweeps a function generator output from 1Vpp to 5Vpp (so a loop is created for 5 measurements). You can see the sequence on the left hand side of the image. I then placed two DMM readings inside of the loop.

On the right hand side, we now see a visual representation of the data and sweep. The line colors on the graph match the block colors in the sequence. You can see that this is all on the same X axis. The Y axis is variable depending on the graph so we do not show Y axis values unless you mouse over the points. The table below the graph shows the data points with a gross timestamp. Both the graph or table data can be exported.

Time it took to create this? About 60 seconds.

~David

[BenchVue Team]

At the end of the day, from what I see I'm sure that Keysight could sell a lot more 'Pro' modules if the price was closer to $300 to $400 than the $700+ as it is now.

Also, don't forget that the availability of a decently priced test software can be a great marketing tool.

Wuerstchenhund, I know that Jeff addressed this but I wanted to chime in too on the pricing subject since price ranges were mentioned for the Pro versions of the apps.

The Pro upgrades for the DMM and Power supply apps are $200 and $150. Other Pro upgrade licenses range up to $500, with an exception for the Function Generator Pro license which is up there at $750. I'm not saying that these prices are better than the free value that the base apps provide, but not all are up in the $700 range.

~David

[LaurentR]

One thing I'd like to see in BV is synchronized acquisition/display of multiple instruments (DMMs in my case), i.e.  having the same time base / x axis and two curves on the y axis instead of having different fully independent windows.

Although you can't get one graph in BenchVue, you can now synchronize multiple DMMs by using the vastly improved Digitizer option in the DMM Pro app. Using external trigger, it is easy to set up multiple DMMs to capture various signals at the exact same time. Use "Export All" to put exported data from all DMMs into a single Excel spreadsheet, one DMM per tab. Each DMM will have the same timestamps, all relative to 0 instead of time of day as before. This makes it easy to cut and paste the data columns from all tabs into one, then use Excel's standard charting feature to get them all on one graph. I've made a video showing how to do this, available on Dropbox at:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/232v7ecojkyntne/two_dmm_digi.mp4?dl=0

And by the way, the video shows how to use multiple external triggers and 1 Sample/trigger, so that two completely different DMMs with different internal sample rates can be synchronized. This requires another instrument to generate the triggers. I used a 33521 as a pulse generator for this. If precise timing is not required, you can instead use the VM Complete output out of one to trigger the other, making the data for the 2nd DMM off by one measurement period. If you have two identical DMMs, such as two 34465As, you can use a single external trigger and then change the sample count (and sample interval) to gather the data. The sample subsystem can be run faster than the trigger subsystem, but both modes are now available to you.

Brian

Another alternative solution might be of interest to those reading this thread as well. Using the Test Flow app, you can easily have two DMM readings one after another. While this isn't truly time synchronized (the readings will be offset by the time it takes the first DMM to take a reading) it might be a solution for those who are not as sensitive to time.

In the attached image I created a simple sequence that sweeps a function generator output from 1Vpp to 5Vpp (so a loop is created for 5 measurements). You can see the sequence on the left hand side of the image. I then placed two DMM readings inside of the loop.

On the right hand side, we now see a visual representation of the data and sweep. The line colors on the graph match the block colors in the sequence. You can see that this is all on the same X axis. The Y axis is variable depending on the graph so we do not show Y axis values unless you mouse over the points. The table below the graph shows the data points with a gross timestamp. Both the graph or table data can be exported.

Time it took to create this? About 60 seconds.

~David

That is pretty cool. I need to look at that Test Flow app. I have done things like this on occasion, but usually putting together a couple hundred lines of MatLab...

Laurent

[georges80]

At the end of the day, from what I see I'm sure that Keysight could sell a lot more 'Pro' modules if the price was closer to $300 to $400 than the $700+ as it is now.

Also, don't forget that the availability of a decently priced test software can be a great marketing tool.

Wuerstchenhund, I know that Jeff addressed this but I wanted to chime in too on the pricing subject since price ranges were mentioned for the Pro versions of the apps.

The Pro upgrades for the DMM and Power supply apps are $200 and $150. Other Pro upgrade licenses range up to $500, with an exception for the Function Generator Pro license which is up there at $750. I'm not saying that these prices are better than the free value that the base apps provide, but not all are up in the $700 range.

~David

Since I mentioned the high cost of the benchlink waveform PRO software, why is it so expensive? I have a 33250A and it would be nice to easily create ARB waveforms for some of my test cases, but the trial mode is very brain dead. I can't justify $750+ to enable a few more editing features that would make the application useful. I'm sure there are a whole suite of wonderful things the PRO paid version provides, but what I need is just an easy way to create ARB waveforms without spending a ton of money beyond what a 33250A already cost.

The trial version essentially makes the benchlink waveform program useless for any real work and I'm left creating various pulse waveforms on the front panel of the function generator.

I could see charging a fee to enable all the automation features, since those are typically what a larger company needs to automate various tests, but for us small guys it would be real nice to enable all the waveform features so creating/downloading ARB waveforms is easy.

cheers,
george.

[BenchVue Team]

At the end of the day, from what I see I'm sure that Keysight could sell a lot more 'Pro' modules if the price was closer to $300 to $400 than the $700+ as it is now.

Also, don't forget that the availability of a decently priced test software can be a great marketing tool.

Wuerstchenhund, I know that Jeff addressed this but I wanted to chime in too on the pricing subject since price ranges were mentioned for the Pro versions of the apps.

The Pro upgrades for the DMM and Power supply apps are $200 and $150. Other Pro upgrade licenses range up to $500, with an exception for the Function Generator Pro license which is up there at $750. I'm not saying that these prices are better than the free value that the base apps provide, but not all are up in the $700 range.

~David

Since I mentioned the high cost of the benchlink waveform PRO software, why is it so expensive? I have a 33250A and it would be nice to easily create ARB waveforms for some of my test cases, but the trial mode is very brain dead. I can't justify $750+ to enable a few more editing features that would make the application useful. I'm sure there are a whole suite of wonderful things the PRO paid version provides, but what I need is just an easy way to create ARB waveforms without spending a ton of money beyond what a 33250A already cost.

The trial version essentially makes the benchlink waveform program useless for any real work and I'm left creating various pulse waveforms on the front panel of the function generator.

I could see charging a fee to enable all the automation features, since those are typically what a larger company needs to automate various tests, but for us small guys it would be real nice to enable all the waveform features so creating/downloading ARB waveforms is easy.

cheers,
george.

Thank you George for coming back to this subject. I was following up with some colleagues before replying. While there are no plans to change the pricing of the Function Generator Pro/Waveform builder, I do have a solution that might be of use to you and others reading this thread.

Command Expert (CE) is another no cost software product from Keysight. At it's heart it helps with easy programming of SCPI commands to instruments. There are also plug-ins that you can use to integrate CE into programs like Excel. With the Excel plug-in you can create your arb in the Excel cells and use CE to upload your arb into your 33250A. By using the powerful Excel equation tools you can generate your own custom arbs for upload.
www.keysight.com/find/commandexpert

~David

[georges80]

Thank you George for coming back to this subject. I was following up with some colleagues before replying. While there are no plans to change the pricing of the Function Generator Pro/Waveform builder, I do have a solution that might be of use to you and others reading this thread.

Command Expert (CE) is another no cost software product from Keysight. At it's heart it helps with easy programming of SCPI commands to instruments. There are also plug-ins that you can use to integrate CE into programs like Excel. With the Excel plug-in you can create your arb in the Excel cells and use CE to upload your arb into your 33250A. By using the powerful Excel equation tools you can generate your own custom arbs for upload.
www.keysight.com/find/commandexpert

~David

Thanks David. Sounds like an interesting solution that may be exactly all I need. I'll check it out for sure.

cheers,
george.

[KE5FX]

If we're on the subject of equipment support, is there any chance it'll ever be able to download data from my HP 4395A network analyser?

(Long shot, I know, but it would be really worthwhile... not sure how much longer it'll be physically possible to use floppy discs to get data off it!)

I would not shell up £1400 for a data transfer software... but have you tried out the free (as in gratis) VNA utility from John Miles? Works like charm and I use it for both the 8753 and 8510 and a NI GPIB-to-USB dongle. www.ke5fx.com Could not be simpler

VNA.EXE won't work on the 4395A, unfortunately, unless there's some sort of 100% 8753- or 8510-compatible command mode I haven't heard about.  

[MarkL]

Somehow I can't find the download link for the Linux version...

Here, let's try it it as a question since they are inviting any and all...


BenchVue Team:  When will the Linux version be available?

[Someone]

I can't see pricing for the Apps in Australian dollars, hopefully that will propagate through and not require quotes. But reading through the BV3 manual about the test flow:

Yearly renewable license.

Is the renewal required to continue running the test flows? Or just for creation of them? How do you plan for people to develop and then deploy tests using this flow?

[LaurentR]

To state this in a separate post, I'd really like to see the low-speed digitizing function available on the 34461A also made available on the 34465A without the DIG option. It makes no sense for that function to not be available just because the DIG option is not there. The 34465A is a superset of the 34461A, so why would that function not be available?

It was that way on BV2. On BV3, I don't know (BV3 on 34465A without DIG is broken so who knows whether that is still an issue), but I would certainly like to see this fixed.

[nfmax]

One minor (?) issue. The software seems to be very profligate of pixels - great big borders, massive icons, big chunky title boxes etc. It looks great on the big monitors used for the screenshots & brochures, but typically I only have room on my already crowded bench for a small monitor. This means the information density of BenchVue screens is poor. Would it be possible to implement a re-skinnable UI, with maybe some skinnier skins for tiny monitors?

[BenchVue Team]

One minor (?) issue. The software seems to be very profligate of pixels - great big borders, massive icons, big chunky title boxes etc. It looks great on the big monitors used for the screenshots & brochures, but typically I only have room on my already crowded bench for a small monitor. This means the information density of BenchVue screens is poor. Would it be possible to implement a re-skinnable UI, with maybe some skinnier skins for tiny monitors?

You can minimize sections of the screens using the little arrow buttons so that only the parts you care about are visible. For example, there is one on the instrument bar that shrinks the bar down. And there are sliders at the junction of all the windows so that you can adjust the size to your liking. You can also "pop out" any app into its own window, which will maximize screen real estate since you won't have the BenchVue specific sections visible, just the app you are using.

But yes, a large monitor does help and is a good investment (not just for BenchVue). We are also looking into offering different skins and your suggestion will be added to the list. You're right, on a small monitor, every pixel counts.

Brian

[BenchVue Team]

To state this in a separate post, I'd really like to see the low-speed digitizing function available on the 34461A also made available on the 34465A without the DIG option. It makes no sense for that function to not be available just because the DIG option is not there. The 34465A is a superset of the 34461A, so why would that function not be available?

It was that way on BV2. On BV3, I don't know (BV3 on 34465A without DIG is broken so who knows whether that is still an issue), but I would certainly like to see this fixed.

We have fixed the broken code that was keeping the 34465A app from starting unless you had the DIG option, and that update will be on the web site shortly. One thing we changed in 3.0 was to break all apps into independent pieces, so they can be updated individually without having to release a new version of BV itself. So the DMM 3.1 release will be available as soon as we can get it uploaded. I can also make it available on Dropbox if anyone urgently needs it now. Remember that you can reach support (me) directly at bv_support at keysight dot com. You can also use the "Report an Issue" option in the gear icon to zip up log files and add comments or ask for help. All such emails go to me and I respond to every one as fast as I can.

All that said, I will look into allowing the 34465A to be used as a digitizer without the DIG option. As I understand it, the 34465A has much more memory with the DIG option, and we use that to store readings so it can run at the high speed usually needed for digitizing.

Brian

[LaurentR]

You can also use the "Report an Issue" option in the gear icon to zip up log files and add comments or ask for help. All such emails go to me and I respond to every one as fast as I can.

Talking about which, I don't think the email-based issue reporting scheme in BV is a good idea. Inputting either my personal or corporate email credentials in a third-party app is generally a big no-no. And a lot of modern email requires things like specific clients, ports, secure protocols, 2-factor authentication... which makes this not that useful. For the couple of issues I have reported, I tried using this but never managed to configure it properly, then I thought I could use the attachment creation method, but nothing says to which email address and Subject to send it to...

I think it would be better to at least:
* Use the OS mailto: handler to open an email window with the right To: and Subject: lines
* Or clearly state where/how to send an email manually.

Even better would be to somehow upload the issue report and not have to go through email, but that's likely more involved.

[BenchVue Team]

Somehow I can't find the download link for the Linux version...

Here, let's try it it as a question since they are inviting any and all...
BenchVue Team:  When will the Linux version be available?

Mark, thank you for voicing the question. It is true that we do not have a Linux or OSX version of BenchVue for 3.0. We are working at adding improvements and cross platform functionality is on the list. I can't commit formally or publicly about a cross platform release, but it is functionality that we have looked into and continue to investigate.

On that note: Is anyone running Benchvue from Virtualbox? It would be nice if I know it works or not before trying...

There is some hope for users of non-Window's OS's. I can't claim full support of Virtual Machines but Keysight has informally tested using a Virtual Machine and did not see a problem. My understanding is that there might be some VM cases where the USB port needs a special configuration but that is not specific for BenchVue or T&M but all USB drivers. We'd love to hear if users have successfully used a VM with BenchVue, and we can offer some limited support if there are issues.

~David

[BenchVue Team]

I can't see pricing for the Apps in Australian dollars, hopefully that will propagate through and not require quotes. But reading through the BV3 manual about the test flow:

Yearly renewable license.

Is the renewal required to continue running the test flows? Or just for creation of them? How do you plan for people to develop and then deploy tests using this flow?

Greetings! The Test Flow license enables use with live instruments. Users may create and share the .bvseq files (our clever acronym for BenchVue sequences) without the license. But in order to work with a real instrument on your bench, the license is needed.

If anyone is interested in trying Test Flow without purchasing it, for a limited time we enabled a generous 90 day trial period for Test Flow. This will get you full access to Test Flow to try out, learn, and hopefully fall in love with. We really do believe that it will enable you to do your work a lot quicker with no programming. Don't forget that we have a Test Flow playlist on Youtube, its posted on the first post of this EEVBlog topic.

To enable your 90 day trial, you can go to the Apps tab (at the very top center)  in BenchVue, then click on the Test Flow icon. Once the description page opens there should be a button to start your trial.

~David

[nfmax]

In my experience, activating a limited-time trial license is a signal for Management to immediately switch me off one project and on to something completely different, which will occupy me fully until just before the expiry of the trial period, by which time I have completely forgotten what it was I intended to try out. Just sayin'.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Wuerstchenhund, I know that Jeff addressed this but I wanted to chime in too on the pricing subject since price ranges were mentioned for the Pro versions of the apps.

The Pro upgrades for the DMM and Power supply apps are $200 and $150. Other Pro upgrade licenses range up to $500, with an exception for the Function Generator Pro license which is up there at $750. I'm not saying that these prices are better than the free value that the base apps provide, but not all are up in the $700 range.

Thanks for the reply, David! I have to admit that I didn't check the DMM and PSU options as they weren't really relevant for us, and I agree that the pricing of up to $200 sounds much more reasonable for what these modules seem to offer (although it's still not cheap by any means).

However, the main gripes are the prices for the Function Generator Pro app (as you said $750), the Spectrum Analyzer Pro app ($500), the Oscilloscope Pro app ($400) and the Power Meter Pro app ($500), which most of the customer I talked to found excessive (and I have to agree). Don't get me wrong, the apps are nicely done, but when I pay in excess of $3500 for a 30MHz AWG it's hard to justify spending another $750 just to be able to edit some waveforms (and btw, Tektronix offers their Waveform Editor ArbExpress for free!).

Same with the oscilloscope Pro app, which essentially offers roughly the same as for example LeCroy's WaveStudio, which is completely free and unlimited.

As to the Spectrum Analyzer Pro app, again it's nicely done but doesn't really offer any notable advanced functionality that could justify the $500 price tag.

I'd say that a price at the $300 to $350 for the Function Generator Pro app would be much more reasonable (and even then it would still be expensive, and it would still be the by far most expensive waveform editor application on the market!). The scope Pro app shouldn't really cost more than $200 to $250, same for Spectrum Analyzer Pro and Power Meter Pro.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I do like BenchVue, but from a professional point of view I simply can't see good value for money at these price points. And I guess for hobbyists (who are often notoriously cash-strapped) it's not much different.

[hognala]

Somehow I can't find the download link for the Linux version...

On that note: Is anyone running Benchvue from Virtualbox? It would be nice if I know it works or not before trying...

Yep. Its working fine on the latest VirtualBox running on Mac OS X with a Windows 10 guest and IO Libraries Suite 17.1 Update 1. If you are going to use USB or a USB/GPIB adapter, don't forget to install the VirtualBox Extension Pack, enable USB 2 EHCI and install the Guest Addition CD image in the Guest OS (and attach to the USB device from the Devices --> USB menu of VirtualBox)

[LabSpokane]

My biggest complaint about BenchVue is the large amount of overhead driven by the use of .NET. I realize the virtue in using it as a lot of higher-level functionality comes for free, but it nearly demands a dedicated CPU which seems silly to me. If there is any way to pare down the CPU load, that would be appreciated.

I also still dislike the inability to leave a log file list persistently sorted. I prefer having the newest logs at the top of the list, but by default newest goes to the bottom. This seems like a trivial gripe until one must sort through many many files or reset the sort each time.

[Someone]

I can't see pricing for the Apps in Australian dollars, hopefully that will propagate through and not require quotes. But reading through the BV3 manual about the test flow:

Yearly renewable license.

Is the renewal required to continue running the test flows? Or just for creation of them? How do you plan for people to develop and then deploy tests using this flow?

Greetings! The Test Flow license enables use with live instruments. Users may create and share the .bvseq files (our clever acronym for BenchVue sequences) without the license. But in order to work with a real instrument on your bench, the license is needed.

If anyone is interested in trying Test Flow without purchasing it, for a limited time we enabled a generous 90 day trial period for Test Flow. This will get you full access to Test Flow to try out, learn, and hopefully fall in love with. We really do believe that it will enable you to do your work a lot quicker with no programming. Don't forget that we have a Test Flow playlist on Youtube, its posted on the first post of this EEVBlog topic.

To enable your 90 day trial, you can go to the Apps tab (at the very top center)  in BenchVue, then click on the Test Flow icon. Once the description page opens there should be a button to start your trial.

~David

Thank you, I have watched the videos but the licensing terms are not clear. So each instance of the software that runs with real instruments will require an annual license maintained to run the test flows? I am comparing this to the free deployment model that competitive systems offer.

[joeqsmith]

Hey EEVBlog members! We’re part of the Keysight BenchVue team and we are here to answer your questions on BenchVue. We’ll be monitoring this thread to answer your questions. Ask us anything!

Regards,
David
Brian
Jeff

You seem to make point that your package requires no programming.   To me, that is not a selling point.  If I am hooking an instrument to a PC, it is to automate some test.  I am not sure if Sparkfun still sells the kit with the water marked version of Labview for $50.   It was basically their base package.   So, it can't be cost.   

I purchased Benchlink or something for my HP33120A and HP34401A when I bought them new.  Both programs were very limited in what they could do.  I am not even sure I could run that software on a modern PC today.    I can still run Labview code that I wrote more than 20 years ago.

What is the reason anyone would purchase a canned program like this over Labview?   Is it like you stated,  that there is no need to do any programming?   

[georges80]

Benchvue Team:

Ok, I've installed the Command Expert and have Excel 2013 showing a command expert button. I click on it and then click on Create Sequence and it brings up command expert. I can then connect to my 33250A and it displays a mostly blank worksheet in Excel. It's not clear at all what I do next.

Are there any canned example work sheets I can download (for the 33250A)? How do I enter in values/voltages etc to control my 33250A.

The whole experience at this point is very poor and I'm glad this piece of software is free since I'd be demanding a refund if I'd actually had to purchase it. Very unfriendly interface.

Please help explain or point me to where I can actually learn how to get an ARB waveform going.

thanks,
george.

[hognala]

Benchvue Team:

Ok, I've installed the Command Expert and have Excel 2013 showing a command expert button. I click on it and then click on Create Sequence and it brings up command expert. I can then connect to my 33250A and it displays a mostly blank worksheet in Excel. It's not clear at all what I do next.

Are there any canned example work sheets I can download (for the 33250A)? How do I enter in values/voltages etc to control my 33250A.

The whole experience at this point is very poor and I'm glad this piece of software is free since I'd be demanding a refund if I'd actually had to purchase it. Very unfriendly interface.

Please help explain or point me to where I can actually learn how to get an ARB waveform going.

thanks,
george.

Hey georges80,

There are a couple good ways to learn how to use Command Expert:

• In Command Expert we've included lots of Tutorials that take just a few minutes to complete (but at the end you should understand everything you can do in Command Expert). I'd recommend that you 
  • first go through the Command Expert Application Tutorial to understand how to navigate and use Command Expert,
  • then do the Excel Add-in Tutorial: Authoring Workbooks to understand how to use the Excel integration.
  You can get to the Tutorials by clicking Help->Command Expert Tutorials->pick the tutorial you want
• You can also check out all of the Command Expert examples that we include in the product to get a feel for how they work. The examples are on the right side of the Welcome Screen, which you can navigate to by clicking File->View Welcome Screen
• You can also check out some of the videos we've got on YouTube, such as this video for using a DMM with Command Expert in Excel -

Let us know if you get stuck, we're glad to help!

Alan Copeland
Lead Connectivity Support Engineer @ Keysight
 

[BenchVue Team]

My biggest complaint about BenchVue is the large amount of overhead driven by the use of .NET. I realize the virtue in using it as a lot of higher-level functionality comes for free, but it nearly demands a dedicated CPU which seems silly to me. If there is any way to pare down the CPU load, that would be appreciated.

I also still dislike the inability to leave a log file list persistently sorted. I prefer having the newest logs at the top of the list, but by default newest goes to the bottom. This seems like a trivial gripe until one must sort through many many files or reset the sort each time.

LabSpokane, thank you for your feedback! We are continuing on improving the BenchVue experience and the processing power needed is always a sensitive topic both with users and our internal Keysight team.

I'll capture the sorting request and will see what can be done to keep the sort settings. I agree that it can get frustrating if you have a lot of data logs to sort through.

~David

[georges80]

Alan, thanks. I'll check out the tutorials etc, definitely need some of that to find out how to use the plug-in. An example excel sheet that created a somewhat arbitrary pulse train would have been nice.

I'll post an update if I get stuck.

cheers,
george.

[BenchVue Team]

Hey EEVBlog members! We’re part of the Keysight BenchVue team and we are here to answer your questions on BenchVue. We’ll be monitoring this thread to answer your questions. Ask us anything!

Regards,
David
Brian
Jeff

You seem to make point that your package requires no programming.   To me, that is not a selling point.  If I am hooking an instrument to a PC, it is to automate some test.  I am not sure if Sparkfun still sells the kit with the water marked version of Labview for $50.   It was basically their base package.   So, it can't be cost.   

I purchased Benchlink or something for my HP33120A and HP34401A when I bought them new.  Both programs were very limited in what they could do.  I am not even sure I could run that software on a modern PC today.    I can still run Labview code that I wrote more than 20 years ago.

What is the reason anyone would purchase a canned program like this over Labview?   Is it like you stated,  that there is no need to do any programming?

Hi Joeqsmith! Programming is a great skill. I have programs that I wrote myself 12 years ago that I still refer to or use because they do exactly what I want. Programming does provide more flexibility to solve each problem at hand. However, programming is also an investment in time. It takes time to not only learn the nuances of each language, but also to create each custom program even for some simple tasks. Take a look at LaurentR's comment of needing 100's of lines of code to create a simple sweep. A lot of people do not have the skill or time to continue to create their own custom tests. This is especially true for Test and Measurement which also requires knowledge of SCPI, IVI-COM drivers, VISA, IEEE 488.1 and other acronyms that only make sense to T&M veterans.

BenchVue's goal is to take the most common tasks and make it easy to accomplish them without the learning curve that programming requires. Plug and play instrument control. We provide a single interface that looks and feels the same for different types of instruments and with Test Flow you can use them together to create custom sequences. Hopefully with luck, continuous development, and  acceptance BenchVue will have the longevity that LabView has enjoyed. Using BenchVue today will save you time immediately by allowing easy data capture. You will be able to spend your time on the problems of your design, not fighting the instrumentation.

If BenchVue is a program that you find useful please use it, most of the functionality is available at no cost. For users that do need more capability we do have some upgrade options but it is not compulsory to upgrade.

~David

[BenchVue Team]

I can't see pricing for the Apps in Australian dollars, hopefully that will propagate through and not require quotes. But reading through the BV3 manual about the test flow:

Yearly renewable license.

Is the renewal required to continue running the test flows? Or just for creation of them? How do you plan for people to develop and then deploy tests using this flow?

Greetings! The Test Flow license enables use with live instruments. Users may create and share the .bvseq files (our clever acronym for BenchVue sequences) without the license. But in order to work with a real instrument on your bench, the license is needed.

If anyone is interested in trying Test Flow without purchasing it, for a limited time we enabled a generous 90 day trial period for Test Flow. This will get you full access to Test Flow to try out, learn, and hopefully fall in love with. We really do believe that it will enable you to do your work a lot quicker with no programming. Don't forget that we have a Test Flow playlist on Youtube, its posted on the first post of this EEVBlog topic.

To enable your 90 day trial, you can go to the Apps tab (at the very top center)  in BenchVue, then click on the Test Flow icon. Once the description page opens there should be a button to start your trial.

~David

Thank you, I have watched the videos but the licensing terms are not clear. So each instance of the software that runs with real instruments will require an annual license maintained to run the test flows? I am comparing this to the free deployment model that competitive systems offer.

My apologies that the documentation is not clear on licensing. The difference between a demo version and a licensed version of Test Flow is the ability to use live instruments with your Test Flow sequence. We do not currently have a run time version of the Test Flow app for deployment.

~David

[BenchVue Team]

To state this in a separate post, I'd really like to see the low-speed digitizing function available on the 34461A also made available on the 34465A without the DIG option. It makes no sense for that function to not be available just because the DIG option is not there. The 34465A is a superset of the 34461A, so why would that function not be available?

It was that way on BV2. On BV3, I don't know (BV3 on 34465A without DIG is broken so who knows whether that is still an issue), but I would certainly like to see this fixed.

We have fixed the broken code that was keeping the 34465A app from starting unless you had the DIG option, and that update will be on the web site shortly. One thing we changed in 3.0 was to break all apps into independent pieces, so they can be updated individually without having to release a new version of BV itself. So the DMM 3.1 release will be available as soon as we can get it uploaded. I can also make it available on Dropbox if anyone urgently needs it now. Remember that you can reach support (me) directly at bv_support at keysight dot com. You can also use the "Report an Issue" option in the gear icon to zip up log files and add comments or ask for help. All such emails go to me and I respond to every one as fast as I can.

All that said, I will look into allowing the 34465A to be used as a digitizer without the DIG option. As I understand it, the 34465A has much more memory with the DIG option, and we use that to store readings so it can run at the high speed usually needed for digitizing.

Brian

The DMM update has been published. For those that have 3.0 installed, you may update only the DMM app within BenchVue. We suggest this method since it is faster and easier than other options. To see and install the update go to your Apps tab (at the top bar) then you should see a little green update flag on the DMM icon. Clicking on the icon will bring you to a description and you should see an update button to initiate the update. Internet and FTP access is necessary for this update.

[HighVoltage]

To see and install the update go to your Apps tab (at the top bar) then you should see a little green update flag on the DMM icon.

Thanks for the update, but I do not see a green update flag.
May it is because my Pro Trial DMM App has expired?

[joeqsmith]

David,

Thanks for responding. 

"However, programming is also an investment in time. It takes time to not only learn the nuances of each language, but also to create each custom program even for some simple tasks. "

I agree, it's an investment in ones self.   I have limited time and and try to choose my tools wisely. LaurentR's comment was using Mathworks which is not really designed for the T&M like Labview.  Setting up automated tests is pretty simple with it. 

"Test Flow you can use them together to create custom sequences."

  This sounds like programming to me.   If I were to invest time learning a T&M control language, wouldn't I be better served learning something that has been around a very long time with a vast user base and support for pretty much any equipment I desire?

"If BenchVue is a program that you find useful please use it, most of the functionality is available at no cost. For users that do need more capability we do have some upgrade options but it is not compulsory to upgrade."

I doubt very much I could use it as all of my equipment that is HP branded is more than 15 years old with the majority more than 25.   It would be hard to justify new Keysight equipment for my hobby use.    Are you planning to support other 3rd party equipment in the future? 

[LabSpokane]

I'm not trying to alienate anyone, but the simple fact is that Keysight cannot develop an application with features and a price point attractive to the hobbyist market.  It is just not their business model.  I think some of the pricing is a bit steep in light of the current performance, but I'd rather see the performance issues addressed and increase the value proposition.

Another option would be to offer BenchVue on a dual licensing model of perpetual or an annual subscription model to get the cost of entry down. People will still complain, but it could be a more sustainable revenue stream.

========

And thank you Keysight them for acknowledging the current performance issues. I'd love to see you get the support from corporate to break away from .Net and reinvent the application as part of a 4.0 or 5.0 release. The overhead of .Net really makes BenchVue painful to use. I don't regard that issue as a team failure. I see that as a management issue. 

[Macbeth]

You can also check out some of the videos we've got on YouTube, such as this video for using a DMM with Command Expert in Excel -
Let us know if you get stuck, we're glad to help!

Alan Copeland
Lead Connectivity Support Engineer @ Keysight

Wow! I never knew this existed. It's brilliant! Especially because it will work with ANY SCPI instruments plus IVI COM and IVI C and it's free. This is better than BenchVue to me 

I've only had a quick play but my Rigol IVI-C driver is working and my Keithley IVI-COM should work. This is a damn sight better than having to create wrapper code myself.

The instrument command sets - is there a way for me to generate these myself from Generic SCPI commands? Or would I have to write IVI drivers to do this?

Also, exporting into  C, C#, VB.NET, MATLAB, and Excel is great. But Excel exports as CSV (which I guess is used by the Excel Add-In) but I can't find export for old fashioned VBA / VBScript code - which is what Excel uses.

Anyway I have to play with this some more...

[Macbeth]

I'm not trying to alienate anyone, but the simple fact is that Keysight cannot develop an application with features and a price point attractive to the hobbyist market. 

Au contraire, that Command Expert is free and works for all manufacturers instruments. It seems very easy to use, even for none programmers. Very easy to experiment with instrument commands and results as you go.

Of course the Keysight provided command sets are nicer to use than the more arcane IVI stuff or hard coded Generic SCPI, but if there is some way of users making compatible command sets (maybe an XML format?) then that would be excellent.

[LabSpokane]

I'm not trying to alienate anyone, but the simple fact is that Keysight cannot develop an application with features and a price point attractive to the hobbyist market. 

Au contraire, that Command Expert is free and works for all manufacturers instruments. It seems very easy to use, even for none programmers. Very easy to experiment with instrument commands and results as you go.

Of course the Keysight provided command sets are nicer to use than the more arcane IVI stuff or hard coded Generic SCPI, but if there is some way of users making compatible command sets (maybe an XML format?) then that would be excellent.

I was referring to BenchVue. SCPI commands through Excel have been available for many years. This new tool makes it much easier than it used to be, so Bravo! Keysight.

[plesa]

I just tried Test Flow and it can be quite handy. Thumbs up!
Are you going to offer some bundles like Test Flow+DMM+FG+PS+DAQ+OSC?

I propose to implement following in future changes:
-Undo and redo actions
-Add scale on Y axis in line chart mode - multiple needed in case more instruments used
-used configurable/custom blocks (e.g for unsupported instruments)

In Testflow I also find way how to display data from multiple DMMs in one graph.

[ralphrmartin]

OK, here is a question. Can you get rid of the stupid warning about the clock jumping forward? It makes the product unusable. I run Benchvue under a Virtual PC, as I have a Mac, so every time I reload the Virtual PC, the clock jumps forward a few hours or even days. I then get told I am trying to trick the licence software, and should put my clock back if I am not to get into trouble. This is a real pain.

[Macbeth]

OK, here is a question. Can you get rid of the stupid warning about the clock jumping forward? It makes the product unusable. I run Benchvue under a Virtual PC, as I have a Mac, so every time I reload the Virtual PC, the clock jumps forward a few hours or even days. I then get told I am trying to trick the licence software, and should put my clock back if I am not to get into trouble. This is a real pain.

Surely that is a problem with your Virtual PC setup? Why would its clock jump forward? I would think if anything it would be held back, but you should be able to set it up to obtain time from an NTP server in Windows settings.

Unless BenchVue has some stupid DRM or something to detect it running in a VM?

[ralphrmartin]

Because I suspend the virtual PC. I then come back to my electronics a few days later and unsuspend it, and the clock then gets synced to the current Mac clock by NTP. Bam. The clock jumps forward 72 hours say.

There's no problem with the virtual PC. It's the assumptions that Keysight are making that are wrong. They are assuming I am messing around with my clock to extend the life of a licence, but I am not.

In fact, their logic is wrong. There's nothing wrong with clocks jumping forward. Its when they jump back that there's something odd going on.

[HighVoltage]

Why don't you sync the clock of the virtual windows PC, before you start any Keysight services or application. You can even automate this during the startup of your virtual PC

[LabSpokane]

Why don't you sync the clock of the virtual windows PC, before you start any Keysight services or application. You can even automate this during the startup of your virtual PC

That's not how the suspend feature on a virtual machine works. And the clock is automatically adjusted once the VM is back up. The problem isn't BenchVue. It's the license manager that runs in the background as a service.

This fussing over the clock has puzzled me as well.

[BenchVue Team]

Thanks for the update, but I do not see a green update flag.
May it is because my Pro Trial DMM App has expired?

The pro trial should not have any affect on the ability to see and download the update. Let me know if you still aren't seeing the update as it's been a few days since it has been published.

I doubt very much I could use it as all of my equipment that is HP branded is more than 15 years old with the majority more than 25.   It would be hard to justify new Keysight equipment for my hobby use.    Are you planning to support other 3rd party equipment in the future?

Joeqsmith, tools are a personal choice. BenchVue is an option has a valuable place in the market, the choice is yours if we are offering what you want or need. Feedback like this forum is valuable to us so that we can continue to pursue new capabilities and offer what users want. All of this interaction is helping us build a better product and this helps to develop a product that users want. I think that we have a good start. I appreciate your interest and if today's BenchVue doesn't meet your needs, please keep us on your radar as we continue to develop and offer new capabilities, pricing, and bundle options. All are on the table for the BenchVue team and we are continuing to work to ensure that we provide value for our customers and the company.

As of 3.0 we are not supporting third party instruments. I can't publicly commit on future release features but we do hear this feedback quite a bit.

And thank you Keysight them for acknowledging the current performance issues. I'd love to see you get the support from corporate to break away from .Net and reinvent the application as part of a 4.0 or 5.0 release. The overhead of .Net really makes BenchVue painful to use. I don't regard that issue as a team failure. I see that as a management issue.

Resources are always an issue whether you are a hobbyist or a development team. The BenchVue team does what we can with our limited resources, it might take a while for us to deliver everything that every customer wants. However, that is not going to stop us from trying to deliver a good product that will help you do your job. Thank you for your support!

OK, here is a question. Can you get rid of the stupid warning about the clock jumping forward? It makes the product unusable. I run Benchvue under a Virtual PC, as I have a Mac, so every time I reload the Virtual PC, the clock jumps forward a few hours or even days. I then get told I am trying to trick the licence software, and should put my clock back if I am not to get into trouble. This is a real pain.

hi ralphrmartin! We are aware of this behavior and its something that we hope to change in future builds. LabSpokane is correct in that the license manager is causing the alert. Of course, its all Keysight software and we need to work internally to ensure that users don't have these types of experiences. Your use case and feedback has been captured and I hope to see a positive fix for this issue in future releases.

~David

[BenchVue Team]

The instrument command sets - is there a way for me to generate these myself from Generic SCPI commands? Or would I have to write IVI drivers to do this?

Also, exporting into  C, C#, VB.NET, MATLAB, and Excel is great. But Excel exports as CSV (which I guess is used by the Excel Add-In) but I can't find export for old fashioned VBA / VBScript code - which is what Excel uses.

Anyway I have to play with this some more...

Macbeth, I'm glad that you find Command Expert so valuable. This software is more focused on beginning programmers to T&M and I believe that many users can benefit from the CE experience. If BenchVue doesn't provide what you need, perhaps Command Expert might. Command expert does not enable the capability for users to generate their own command sets from SCPI commands. Its a bit of a complicated story but it involves access to instrument firmware and other internal bits of information that is generally not available for the public.

If you are able to generate IVI drivers, the CE will automatically import the command set which means that you can use third party ivi drivers.

~David

[HighVoltage]

Thanks for the update, but I do not see a green update flag.
May it is because my Pro Trial DMM App has expired?

The pro trial should not have any affect on the ability to see and download the update. Let me know if you still aren't seeing the update as it's been a few days since it has been published.

No, still the same, I do not see an update button or flag for that App
I will install it tomorrow on another PC, may be that one will work.

[LabSpokane]

BenchVueTeam,

Thanks for jumping on here and enduring the armchair software engineering.  I know it is not easy to be on the receiving end.  

[GlowingGhoul]

BenchVueTeam,

Thanks for jumping on here and enduring the armchair software engineering.  I know it is not easy to be on the receiving end.

Yes, definitely. Please don't get scared off. Keysight engaging with users this way reflects very well on the company. Please, keep it up!

[quantumvolt]

Tangent Topic / RE: Command Expert


Cannot find DependencyProperty or PropertyInfo for property named 'VirtualizationMode'. Property names are case sensitive.  Error at object 'System.Windows.Controls.TreeView' in markup file 'Agilent.CommandExpert.CommandExpertLib;component/controls/misc/examplepane/examplepane.xaml'.

Orphaned:

Forum question:
http://www.keysight.com/owc_discussions/thread.jspa?messageID=120503&tstart=0

Comment in:
' www    .youtube.com/watch?v=lEtoUvfB5TE '

Same message on an Acer Aspire 4540 winsleaze xp sp3 box on download a few days ago. Another similar os 2009 or so Compaq runs the same CE download w/o problems.

[Wuerstchenhund]

@Bencvue Team:

The Excel plugin of Command Expert doesn't seem to work with the 64bit versions of Excel (I've tried 2010 and 2013), although there's no warning or similar when installing. Are there any plans/an ETA for when Command Expert will be compatible with 64bit Excel?

[rosbuitre]

BenchVueTeam,

Thanks for jumping on here and enduring the armchair software engineering.  I know it is not easy to be on the receiving end.

Yes, definitely. Please don't get scared off. Keysight engaging with users this way reflects very well on the company. Please, keep it up!

 

[BenchVue Team]

BenchVueTeam,

Thanks for jumping on here and enduring the armchair software engineering.  I know it is not easy to be on the receiving end.

Yes, definitely. Please don't get scared off. Keysight engaging with users this way reflects very well on the company. Please, keep it up!

 

We appreciate the warm welcome and the Dave's blessing to speak with the community here. We have wanted to engage for a long time and don't plan on going anywhere.  If it takes a while for us to respond at times it just means we are working on BenchVue, we'll answer when time permits.

Regarding the Command Expert questions above, we are not CE experts but will work on getting some answers and private message folks on those.

~Jeff

[georges80]

@Bencvue Team:

The Excel plugin of Command Expert doesn't seem to work with the 64bit versions of Excel (I've tried 2010 and 2013), although there's no warning or similar when installing. Are there any plans/an ETA for when Command Expert will be compatible with 64bit Excel?

How doesn't it work? I have Excel 64 bit 2013 (running on windows 7 64bit) and the plugin seems to work just fine. I've transferred data from it to my 33250A via the plugin and it transfers correctly and the ARB waveform works as it should.

cheers,
george.

[ralphrmartin]

Why don't you sync the clock of the virtual windows PC, before you start any Keysight services or application. You can even automate this during the startup of your virtual PC

You guys are missing the point. The Mac and Virtual PC clocks are in sync. When I stop using the virtual PC it goes to sleep at whatever time I stop. When I start using it again 3 days later, just think of it like one of the clock pulses on my PC lasted 3 days. The Virtual PC software resyncs it to the Mac clock, and the Keysight license server goes "oops, clock just went forward 3 days", then puts up endless dialogs warning me about trying to fiddle with the clock to defeat the licencing. I'm afraid the software design has not realised that the clock could *validly* jump forward 3 days.

[ralphrmartin]

hi ralphrmartin! We are aware of this behavior and its something that we hope to change in future builds. LabSpokane is correct in that the license manager is causing the alert. Of course, its all Keysight software and we need to work internally to ensure that users don't have these types of experiences. Your use case and feedback has been captured and I hope to see a positive fix for this issue in future releases.

~David

Excellent. I look forward to an update to the licence server. I'd be happy to test any newer version if you want me to try it out.

[plesa]

@Bencvue Team:

The Excel plugin of Command Expert doesn't seem to work with the 64bit versions of Excel (I've tried 2010 and 2013), although there's no warning or similar when installing. Are there any plans/an ETA for when Command Expert will be compatible with 64bit Excel?

I'm using 2013 x64 bit version and it works. If the tab with Command Expert is missing in Excel just run the file c:\Program Files (x86)\Agilent\Command Expert\Keysight.CommandExpert.Addons.Excel.vsto
If there is any error try it again. After that it should be working.
I hope this helps.

There are also other possibilities how to control instruments in Excel  for example by Visual basic. Tutorial made by Bill Griffith:



I did not find the tutorial xls file, maybe other will find it:)

[BenchVue Team]

Thanks for the update, but I do not see a green update flag.
May it is because my Pro Trial DMM App has expired?

The pro trial should not have any affect on the ability to see and download the update. Let me know if you still aren't seeing the update as it's been a few days since it has been published.

No, still the same, I do not see an update button or flag for that App
I will install it tomorrow on another PC, may be that one will work.

Is it possible that you have turned off the automatic checking for updates? This setting can be found by going to the Gear icon on the top right, then click on Settings.

The Settings box will then pop up. Go to the Updates/Privacy Tab. From here, you may initiate an update check immediately or set BenchVue to automatically check for updates on startup at various periods. See attached image for reference.

~David

[Macbeth]

There are also other possibilities how to control instruments in Excel  for example by Visual basic. Tutorial made by Bill Griffith:



I did not find the tutorial xls file, maybe other will find it:)

Will watch these to see if my wonder at no VBA support are unfounded...

ETA: Nope! Both videos show Connection Expert being used purely to get the VISA address of the instrument on the clipboard. All the code is hand written.

I find it puzzling that Command Expert does not produce VBA code for Excel, yet produces everything else from VB.NET, C, MATLAB, even Python code! Of course it's not difficult to go and generate the code in one format and manually change it to VBA but it defeats the purpose.

I can only imagine the VBA code gen was actually in there and then some pointy headed manager demanded its removal, as the Excel Plug-in "should" be more than good enough 

Then again maybe I am not looking hard enough for it. But these videos of how to use Command Expert for your VBA code are very cringeworthy.

Can I ask the Keysight developers why it is so difficult to implement VBA code generation, when you can do a brilliant job with everything else? 

[HighVoltage]

Is it possible that you have turned off the automatic checking for updates? This setting can be found by going to the Gear icon on the top right, then click on Settings.

The Settings box will then pop up. Go to the Updates/Privacy Tab. From here, you may initiate an update check immediately or set BenchVue to automatically check for updates on startup at various periods. See attached image for reference.

~David

Hello David
The automatic checking was turned on (check mark set)
I removed the check mark, restarted BV, set the check mark again, restarted BN.
The flag is still not there.
I also checked manually for updates and none were found.
And the flag is not showing up in the DMM APP.
Hmmm...

[Kean]

Just as a data point, my BenchVue DMM app updated to 3.1 just now without a problem.

I'm quite liking BenchVue v3, even if it is a bit slow and wasteful of screen space.  I hadn't tried BV v2, and I was still using the old Agilent DMM and BenchLink Data Logger apps.  Nice to now have one program that talks to both my 34401A and 34970A.

All of my existing HP/Agilent gear is 2nd hand (because it generally works fine, and I can get more gear for the same $$), but I think this new version of BV has helped me to finally decide to go ahead with a purchase of a brand new 34465A.

It is a pity the non-Pro DMM app can only log for 1 hour, but at least the non-Pro DAQ app can do long term logging.  But after playing with Command Expert I am inspired to have a go at writing my own logging app in C#.  I don't need all that fancy UI just to query and write some numbers out to disk.

[BenchVue Team]

Just as a data point, my BenchVue DMM app updated to 3.1 just now without a problem.

I'm quite liking BenchVue v3, even if it is a bit slow and wasteful of screen space.  I hadn't tried BV v2, and I was still using the old Agilent DMM and BenchLink Data Logger apps.  Nice to now have one program that talks to both my 34401A and 34970A.

All of my existing HP/Agilent gear is 2nd hand (because it generally works fine, and I can get more gear for the same $$), but I think this new version of BV has helped me to finally decide to go ahead with a purchase of a brand new 34465A.

It is a pity the non-Pro DMM app can only log for 1 hour, but at least the non-Pro DAQ app can do long term logging.  But after playing with Command Expert I am inspired to have a go at writing my own logging app in C#.  I don't need all that fancy UI just to query and write some numbers out to disk.

Glad to hear we've been "instrumental" in helping you decide to order a 34465A!

Your comment about screen space has been echoed by others here. I'm actually in a meeting as I type this in which we are discussing how we might make the screen space more efficient, especially on small monitors. If anyone has specific suggestions and ideas, we'd love to hear them.

Brian

[alanambrose]

>>>
Thank you for your input. The 3458A is a special DMM, I had the pleasure of redesigning the production test system for it many years ago and it is still the highest performing DMM in Keysight's arsenal. While the 3458A is not supported at this release, we are continuing to add new models all the time. I will make sure that it is included in our product planning and considered for future support.
<<<

I don't want to seem ungrateful but this meter launched in '88, so you've had a while to think about it...

Alan

[Messtechniker]

If anyone has specific suggestions and ideas, we'd love to hear them.

Well to start with, why not stick more to the standard windows design guide?
This is a well tried and tested GUI which because we are used to it, is operation-wise
to my mind more efficient albeit less sexy that that big black Benchvue hole.
Man, we are doing measurements and can do well without eye candy.

Yours - Messtechniker

P.S.: My 34465A now works with BV 3.1. Thanks for the update anyway.

[Alex Nikitin]

Thank you for your input. The 3458A is a special DMM, I had the pleasure of redesigning the production test system for it many years ago and it is still the highest performing DMM in Keysight's arsenal. While the 3458A is not supported at this release, we are continuing to add new models all the time. I will make sure that it is included in our product planning and considered for future support.

Hi David,

Perhaps you could at least arrange a command set for the 3458A to be added to the Command Expert?

Cheers

Alex

[IanJ]

Am new to BenchVue but so far it's proving invaluable.

One thing though, using the DMM Datalogger, when I stop the log then restart again I always have to rescale the vertical scale, I.e. Reset to 20uV/div.........be nice if there was an option to have it remember ALL the previous session graph settings.

Ian.

[Kean]

... when I stop the log then restart again I always have to rescale the vertical scale

I'm guessing this is because you have the Y axis auto-scale enabled.

[blackdog]

Hi David, 

I use BenchVue over a year now and it keeps getting better. (Yes i have a license for my two 34461A DMM's)
I do find it very odd, that your very best DMM the "3458A" was not addet as one of the first in BenchVue.
Yes its special, yes its old, yes its verry good, please, please, please ad it to BenchVue!

Thank and kind regarts,
Blackdog

[BenchVue Team]

I don't want to seem ungrateful but this meter launched in '88, so you've had a while to think about it...

Alan

Hi David,

Perhaps you could at least arrange a command set for the 3458A to be added to the Command Expert?

Cheers

Alex

Hi David, 

I use BenchVue over a year now and it keeps getting better. (Yes i have a license for my two 34461A DMM's)
I do find it very odd, that your very best DMM the "3458A" was not addet as one of the first in BenchVue.
Yes its special, yes its old, yes its verry good, please, please, please ad it to BenchVue!

Thank and kind regarts,
Blackdog

Hi Alan, Alex, and Blackdog (and all of the 3458A users reading this)!

Thank you for your usage of our great DMM and the interest that you have in getting the 3458A into BenchVue. As I said before, the 3458A is a special DMM and it has been out there for a while. Part of the reason why we haven’t been able to support the 3458A so far is because it is so different than our modern DMMs. The commands, data reporting, and lower level GPIB events are very different than the DMMs that handle SCPI compliant commands. Getting the 3458A to work with BenchVue (and Command Expert) is  not a trivial task. Many of the instruments in a instrument app have similar commands with a few variations, so it allows us to get more bang for our buck. Due to resource limitations, we decided to support more instrument types and expand our BenchVue solution to support users that have Power meters, DAQ, Spectrum analyzers, and network analyzers. To date our current 3.0 version supports 8 types of instruments with over 300 models. 

With that said, the more that we hear from our customers (including all of you!) about a certain type of instrument, the more likely the instrument will be added to BenchVue. So I do encourage all of you to comment in this forum, speak to your Keysight representative (that includes a distributor like Newark or Allied), and use the email link found at the bottom of www.keysight.com/find/benchvueinstruments.   We love feedback and hearing the voice of the user. I’ve captured the feedback so far from this forum. If more people want to chime in about which instrument, including the 3458A or others already noted, it will provide us more data points to direct our resources.

~David

[IanJ]

... when I stop the log then restart again I always have to rescale the vertical scale

I'm guessing this is because you have the Y axis auto-scale enabled.

No, it's disabled.

Ian.

[Fgrir]

I love the new support for the WaveGen in my MSO-X 3000, but is there any plan to support all the waveform modes?  Sin/Square/Ramp/Pulse/DC limitation is sort of annoying when you want to use Sinc, Arb, etc.

[PioB]

Hi,

at work we acquired a 34465A. Unfortunately, Benchvue seems to not like it very much and crashes often ( which I thought should be ok now, after page 5).
It says "data log running" upon starting it, but nothing is displayed, no values; if I hit stop, nothing happens for about a minute, then it seems to exit. I attached a screenshot of the app.
 This problem did not exist with a 34401A or a 34410A.
 (Or is the "Digitizer" option the data logger? Then the tab should not be visible at all for the 34465 or is there a special "Digitizer" tab?)

Benchvue: 3.0.1510.08
Library: 1.2
DMM Pro, licensed, V.  3.1
34465A, A.02.09-02.37-02.09-00.49-02-01

My other wishes are still
-an undo-button for whatever I did last, change in program, setting,...
-directly editable fields for text entry (at the moments it's pop ups with the cursor never at the location I need it) I wish to be able to click somewhere in a file name e.g. and stay typing right there and not have to click at the correct spot in a second window.

Thank you very much for your help and for a very helpful tool.

[PioB]

After writing the previous message, I changed back to benchvue and without disconnecting the instrument or touching the USB connectors at either end, I get the message "connection to instrument lost".

The field "Error:" is empty and nothing happens upon clicking "resume", after some time the window blanks out.


ETA: Excuse the double posting, but I didn't see any option to add another attachment to the previous post.

[BenchVue Team]

After writing the previous message, I changed back to benchvue and without disconnecting the instrument or touching the USB connectors at either end, I get the message "connection to instrument lost".

The field "Error:" is empty and nothing happens upon clicking "resume", after some time the window blanks out.


ETA: Excuse the double posting, but I didn't see any option to add another attachment to the previous post.

Hi Pio,

Sorry you're having this problem. It looks like you may be using NI IO Libraries. I can tell because there is no "star" icon in the lower right corner of the BenchVue screen and because of all the red X's on the unsupported instruments. If this is the case, then BenchVue would be using NI's VISA libraries. If they are broken, it can cause all sorts of problems. I would suggest removal of NI IO Libraries (which will remove visa32.dll), followed by a "Modify" of Keysight's IOLS to make it Primary (which will restore visa32.dll). If that is not desirable in your case, I would try uninstalling VISA 64 and IVI Shared Components, then re-installing Keysight IOLS 17.1. This should fix any VISA issues that might be causing the problem.

The reason you don't see a digitizer tab on the 34465A is because your DMM does not have the DIG option. BenchVue requires 34465A/70A models to have this option before the digitizer code is enabled.

Thanks also for the other suggestions.

If you continue to have troubles, please use the gear icon to "Report an Issue", which will zip up some log files and attach them to an email which you can then send. Those emails go directly to me, and I look at them as soon as they are received.

Brian

[BenchVue Team]

I love the new support for the WaveGen in my MSO-X 3000, but is there any plan to support all the waveform modes?  Sin/Square/Ramp/Pulse/DC limitation is sort of annoying when you want to use Sinc, Arb, etc.

I've added this enhancement request to our system.

Brian

[plesa]

Running promo to obtain PRO version of DMM, DAQ, FG.
Bench DMM: 34401A, 34410A, 34411A. 34450A, 3446xA 34470A
Bench Function Generator: 33210A, 33220A, 33250A, 33521A, 33522A, 33509B, 33510B, 33511B, 33512B, 33519B, 33520B, 33521B, 33522B, 3611A, 33612A, 33621A, 33622A
Bench Data Acquisition: 34970A & 34972A
Unfortunately it does not apply to instruments purchased in past
I will expect this kind of offer to registered instruments and not only new purchases

https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=GB&lc=eng&ckey=2620987&id=2620987&cmpid=1-7025931885

There is another running promo for 16M memory upgrade of 33511B, 33512B, 33521B, 33522B, 33611A, 33612A, 33621A, 33622A
https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=AE&lc=eng&ckey=2496226&id=2496226

[PedroDaGr8]

Well, I wanted to try BenchVue but  can't even get it to start. It just loads the splash screen and then crashes. It then offers to show me the location of a zip file since I don't have an email client installed on my home pc. I'm not sure WHERE to send the zip file to, it would be nice if it told you this in the message that shows me where the zip file is.

Systems Stats:
OS: Windows 10 64-bit Build 10565
CPU: Intel Core i5-3210M CPU @ 2.50GHz 2.50GHz
Installed Memory (RAM): 4.00GB (3.89GB usable)
HDD: Samsung EVO 850 500GB  (404GB Free)

[BenchVue Team]

Well, I wanted to try BenchVue but  can't even get it to start. It just loads the splash screen and then crashes. It then offers to show me the location of a zip file since I don't have an email client installed on my home pc. I'm not sure WHERE to send the zip file to, it would be nice if it told you this in the message that shows me where the zip file is.

Systems Stats:
OS: Windows 10 64-bit Build 10565
CPU: Intel Core i5-3210M CPU @ 2.50GHz 2.50GHz
Installed Memory (RAM): 4.00GB (3.89GB usable)
HDD: Samsung EVO 850 500GB  (404GB Free)

Sorry you're having trouble. The zip file should be sent to benchvue dot support at keysight dot com. All such reports go directly to me and I answer all of them as soon as I can, often within minutes,, so please do send it along. I'm particularly interested in seeing what might be wrong with your Windows 10 installation. We have tested it on W10, but there are lots of variables. I'll look at the logs and see what I can do to get you going.

Brian

[BenchVue Team]

Well, I wanted to try BenchVue but  can't even get it to start. It just loads the splash screen and then crashes. It then offers to show me the location of a zip file since I don't have an email client installed on my home pc. I'm not sure WHERE to send the zip file to, it would be nice if it told you this in the message that shows me where the zip file is.

Systems Stats:
OS: Windows 10 64-bit Build 10565
CPU: Intel Core i5-3210M CPU @ 2.50GHz 2.50GHz
Installed Memory (RAM): 4.00GB (3.89GB usable)
HDD: Samsung EVO 850 500GB  (404GB Free)

Sorry you're having trouble. The zip file should be sent to benchvue dot support at keysight dot com. All such reports go directly to me and I answer all of them as soon as I can, often within minutes,, so please do send it along. I'm particularly interested in seeing what might be wrong with your Windows 10 installation. We have tested it on W10, but there are lots of variables. I'll look at the logs and see what I can do to get you going.

Brian

I looked at the logs, and found that SQLite is failing to start. This is a database we use for the library. It also looks like you may be using a pre-release version of Windows 10 that may not have the required libraries that are used with SQLite. I poked around online for an answer and found a blog that describes how to get SQLite working on pre-released copies of W10 (see attachment). But it would probably be best to make sure your W10 installation is current.

Brian

[PedroDaGr8]

Well, I wanted to try BenchVue but  can't even get it to start. It just loads the splash screen and then crashes. It then offers to show me the location of a zip file since I don't have an email client installed on my home pc. I'm not sure WHERE to send the zip file to, it would be nice if it told you this in the message that shows me where the zip file is.

Systems Stats:
OS: Windows 10 64-bit Build 10565
CPU: Intel Core i5-3210M CPU @ 2.50GHz 2.50GHz
Installed Memory (RAM): 4.00GB (3.89GB usable)
HDD: Samsung EVO 850 500GB  (404GB Free)

Sorry you're having trouble. The zip file should be sent to benchvue dot support at keysight dot com. All such reports go directly to me and I answer all of them as soon as I can, often within minutes,, so please do send it along. I'm particularly interested in seeing what might be wrong with your Windows 10 installation. We have tested it on W10, but there are lots of variables. I'll look at the logs and see what I can do to get you going.

Brian

I looked at the logs, and found that SQLite is failing to start. This is a database we use for the library. It also looks like you may be using a pre-release version of Windows 10 that may not have the required libraries that are used with SQLite. I poked around online for an answer and found a blog that describes how to get SQLite working on pre-released copies of W10 (see attachment). But it would probably be best to make sure your W10 installation is current.

Brian

The build is actually a post-release build. The final release build was version 10240 (mine is 10565). I actually forgot that I was on the developer chain of builds. I will take a look at your information and get back to you. A)t worst, I'll hop off the developer chain of builds and do a clean install to test this software out. Cheers!

[PedroDaGr8]

Well, I wanted to try BenchVue but  can't even get it to start. It just loads the splash screen and then crashes. It then offers to show me the location of a zip file since I don't have an email client installed on my home pc. I'm not sure WHERE to send the zip file to, it would be nice if it told you this in the message that shows me where the zip file is.

Systems Stats:
OS: Windows 10 64-bit Build 10565
CPU: Intel Core i5-3210M CPU @ 2.50GHz 2.50GHz
Installed Memory (RAM): 4.00GB (3.89GB usable)
HDD: Samsung EVO 850 500GB  (404GB Free)

Sorry you're having trouble. The zip file should be sent to benchvue dot support at keysight dot com. All such reports go directly to me and I answer all of them as soon as I can, often within minutes,, so please do send it along. I'm particularly interested in seeing what might be wrong with your Windows 10 installation. We have tested it on W10, but there are lots of variables. I'll look at the logs and see what I can do to get you going.

Brian

I looked at the logs, and found that SQLite is failing to start. This is a database we use for the library. It also looks like you may be using a pre-release version of Windows 10 that may not have the required libraries that are used with SQLite. I poked around online for an answer and found a blog that describes how to get SQLite working on pre-released copies of W10 (see attachment). But it would probably be best to make sure your W10 installation is current.

Brian

The link you showed is intended for developers using Visual Studio, not for end-users. I tried copying the SQLite dlls to the SYsWOW64 folder and it didn't help.

[BenchVue Team]

Hi Pedro,

Here is the relevant error message from the log file that you sent:

Type: System.IO.FileNotFoundException
Message: Could not load file or assembly 'System.Data.SQLite, Version=1.0.77.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=db937bc2d44ff139' or one of its dependencies. The system cannot find the file specified.

The most likely missing prerequisites are .NET 4.0 and VC++ 2010 redistributable. Please make sure those are on your system. Our installer should be installing them, so if it's not, we need to know about it!

I started BV on my PC and ran Process Explorer to see what dll's are loaded that are connected to SQLite. The path is:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Keysight\BenchVue\Common\3.0\Dependencies\SQLite\System.Data.SQLite.dll

A related file is C:\ProgramData\Keysight\BenchVue\BenchVue\Library\AgilentDatabase.SQLite

So make sure those are present.

Brian

[MarceloYared]

Hi BenchVue Team!

Very nice your attitude on being here and answering all the questions from the users. Congratulations!

I´m a very happy user of two o´scopes from Agilent and Keysight, but I have to say I´m disappointed about the no availability of promo for upgrade of old customers, It´s available only for new acquisitions.

Best regards,

[BenchVue Team]

Unfortunately it does not apply to instruments purchased in past
I will expect this kind of offer to registered instruments and not only new purchases

I´m a very happy user of two o´scopes from Agilent and Keysight, but I have to say I´m disappointed about the no availability of promo for upgrade of old customers, It´s available only for new acquisitions.

Best regards,

Hello plesa and MarceloYared, thank you for not only using Keysight products and BenchVue but wanting more of it! I can understand frustrations when promotions come after you have made your purchase. As consumers its not a nice feeling when a sale comes out soon after you purchased a product. Unfortunately our promotions aren't retroactive for past purchases. It would be pretty nice if we could retroactively give promotions for all of our products for the last 20 years! Promotions are usually time bound and sometimes limited to different regions (as is the one you are referring to). We do our best to keep our customers happy but there are cases where the business side of things shows itself and our program is dependent on business to keep us in development. 

~David

[bingo600]

..
.. Snip
..
Thank you for your usage of our great DMM and the interest that you have in getting the 3458A into BenchVue. As I said before, the 3458A is a special DMM and it has been out there for a while. Part of the reason why we haven’t been able to support the 3458A so far is because it is so different than our modern DMMs. The commands, data reporting, and lower level GPIB events are very different than the DMMs that handle SCPI compliant commands.
..
.. Snip
..
~David

I have the solution to that 

Release a 3458 Rev 10.0 firmware with BOTH the old commandset and a new SCPI compliant commandset 

/Bingo

[plesa]

Hello plesa and MarceloYared, thank you for not only using Keysight products and BenchVue but wanting more of it! I can understand frustrations when promotions come after you have made your purchase. As consumers its not a nice feeling when a sale comes out soon after you purchased a product. Unfortunately our promotions aren't retroactive for past purchases. It would be pretty nice if we could retroactively give promotions for all of our products for the last 20 years! Promotions are usually time bound and sometimes limited to different regions (as is the one you are referring to). We do our best to keep our customers happy but there are cases where the business side of things shows itself and our program is dependent on business to keep us in development. 

~David

What I see is that your promo is retrospective. Similar case was when DSOX series was launched, where lot of user received free signal generator option. Only email to Agilent support was required. This will increase the amount of users and feedback for your improvement.
Based on my experience the inputs from real users is the most valuable feedback, but after the trial expired the amount of feedback on this forum will drop and users will return to the DMM connectivity utility ( unlimited logging), their own Excels,Python scripts, Labview, Matlab and other programs.
Exception can be FG option, where is almost more efficient to buy new generator with promo if case someone really needs this option
Once again thanks for test flow, it is really good direction I think, compare to Kickstart.

[BenchVue Team]

Hi Pedro,

Here is the relevant error message from the log file that you sent:

Type: System.IO.FileNotFoundException
Message: Could not load file or assembly 'System.Data.SQLite, Version=1.0.77.0, Culture=neutral, PublicKeyToken=db937bc2d44ff139' or one of its dependencies. The system cannot find the file specified.

The most likely missing prerequisites are .NET 4.0 and VC++ 2010 redistributable. Please make sure those are on your system. Our installer should be installing them, so if it's not, we need to know about it!

I started BV on my PC and ran Process Explorer to see what dll's are loaded that are connected to SQLite. The path is:

C:\Program Files (x86)\Keysight\BenchVue\Common\3.0\Dependencies\SQLite\System.Data.SQLite.dll

A related file is C:\ProgramData\Keysight\BenchVue\BenchVue\Library\AgilentDatabase.SQLite

So make sure those are present.

Brian

Good news everyone -- after a lot of trial and error, it appears that PedroDaGr8's problem has been solved. The latest update to Windows 10 finally fixed it and he's able to run BenchVue on Windows 10. We've tested BenchVue on Windows 10, but as you know, there are multiple versions out there and it is still pretty green (and I don't mean in the ecological sense!). So please let me know if you run into difficulties with BenchVue as you migrate to Windows 10.

Brian

[BenchVue Team]

Hey EEVBlog members! We’re part of the Keysight BenchVue team and we are here to answer your questions on BenchVue. We’ll be monitoring this thread to answer your questions. Ask us anything!

Is the BenchVue Mobile Android app available via other means than Google Play store only?

http://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=GB&lc=eng&ckey=2428702&nid=-32762.1080833&id=2428702

Considering that not all Android devices can have Google Play (and not everyone wants to run Android with the invasive Google Services), and that this is an app that targets technically savy people (engineers), I'd think that a direct download of the apk file could be offered. Failing that, at least put it on the Amazon Android Store as well.

I'll see what I can do about this. Give me a few days and I'll update this thread.
~David

It took us longer than a few days to generate the new download page and get everything published according to internal requirements. The speed of corporate business is sometimes slower than expectations. But users that would like to download the apk files for BenchVue Mobile can now do so right from Keysight.com. Those interested in downloading the apk can now go to
www.keysight.com/find/benchvuemobile.

There is a link for the  new apk page in the webpage linked above with some basic instructions for downloading and installing the apk.

~David

[plesa]

Is there any plan to implement support for Keysight counters into the BenchVue? Or rather use the TestFlow?
Also can we expect implementation of "64997A Oscilloscope Spectrum Visualizer (OSV) Software" into the BenchVue or it will remain standalone application forever?
In past there were application like "Agilent DMM connectivity utility" which ended up in BenchVue.

[smgvbest]

I'll second the counters question.  I have a 53131A that I'd love to hook up to BenchVue.
I know this isn't the design intent but any possibility of a user defined module so we could integrate over equipement?

[BenchVue Team]

Hi Plesa and smgvbest, I can't deny or confirm the inclusion of future instruments or capability in a public forum like the EEVBlog. However, we are constantly working on adding new instrument support to BenchVue along with other requests (many that have been brought up here in this forum!). We definitely appreciate the feedback provided in this forum and some of you might get what you want in 2016.

Keep up the requests, we are tracking what users want to see in BenchVue.

~David

[rosbuitre]

Hi
Any news about new version of BV and Firmware for 34461A?

Regards

[plesa]

Hi Plesa and smgvbest, I can't deny or confirm the inclusion of future instruments or capability in a public forum like the EEVBlog. However, we are constantly working on adding new instrument support to BenchVue along with other requests (many that have been brought up here in this forum!). We definitely appreciate the feedback provided in this forum and some of you might get what you want in 2016.

Keep up the requests, we are tracking what users want to see in BenchVue.

~David

Thanks, I understand that you cannot share your plans and roadmap.

[Sparky]

@BenchVue Team

Is it possible to set fixed min/max values for the graph y-axis. e.g. 0A to 10mA?  Even though I turn the auto-scale y-axis feature off, I haven't found a way to specify custom upper and lower limits of the graph window. 

Aisde from normal measurement mode I'm interested in doing this when using the Digitize feature (I have the DIG option for my 34465A) with continuous streaming.  For example, acquiring 10k measurements at 5kHz with the data graphed periodically.  The x-/y-axis scale/zoom buttons are disabled during the acquisition, but I would like to set y-axis scale (e.g. 0.1mA per division) with bounds (e.g. 0 to 10mA) and then start the acquisition and not have the scale or limits change as the data is graphed. 

If it's not possible to do this already, can this be added to the list of requested features?

[jc101]

@BenchVue Team (or anyone else really)

Is anyone having issues using BenchVue 3 in a virtual machine?  I'm on a Mac with VMWare Fusion running Windows 8, I start BV and it sees my 34465A, and I have basic control etc.  I go into the Digitiser option and as soon as a I try to change the sample size it locks up and dies.

Edit: If I just type large numbers into the samples box it changes the range from Sa to GSa etc., however if I click the dropdown to change the range the software just locks up.  Oddly it also died when digitising some readings from the 34465A.  It left the DMM just displaying "digitising" on the display, had to reboot that too. 

All comms is over ethernet if that makes any difference.

Any pointers welcome (and, no, I don't want or need to buy a PC).

[Sparky]

@BenchVue team:

I've been using Digitizing mode and saving "infinite" number of data logs...I found I run low on HDD space on drive C: and I looked around for the option to change the data log directory.  I'm surprised the option to change the directory doesn't exist!

I think we really need an option for changing the directory where the data logs are stored so we can use a different HDD partition, different drive, even an external USB drive.  Please look into this option for future software update.

[Sparky]

@BenchVue Team:

I am using 34465A (running firmware 2.11) with the DIG and MEM options installed and when using Digitize mode I can set the maximum sample rate to 50kHz on the front panel.  When I use Digitize mode from within BenchVue I can only set a maximum sample rate of 25kHz.  (This is also the case if using the button to auto-configure for maximum acquisition rate.)  If I manually type "50 kHz" I get an error that "50 kHz is greater than the maximum of 25 kHz". 

This problem only appeared recently when I upgraded my 34465A firmware from 2.09 to 2.11; I could achieve 50kHz from within BenchVue with the 2.09 firmware.

Could you please look into this?  I would like to get the 50kHz option within BenchVue back. 

[BenchVue Team]

I just tried both 2.09 and 2.11 on a 34470A with BenchVue, and both of them worked the same - 25kSa/s max, so I don't think it's a firmware issue. I'm looking into it.

Brian

[Sparky]

I just tried both 2.09 and 2.11 on a 34470A with BenchVue, and both of them worked the same - 25kSa/s max, so I don't think it's a firmware issue. I'm looking into it.

Thanks for the update; I'll look forward to the details.  I hope we will be able to achieve the 50kSa/s option from within BenchVue digitize mode.

Sparky

[plesa]

@BenchVue Team:

I just found that in BenchVue is quite limited support for 34420A, I would like to use it for logging both channels ( ratio measurement and scan mode).
But it is not available in BV. And for instance if I needs to measure channel 1 I needs to select it manually and after that run BV.
In there any short term plan to add full support for 34420A?
Thanks

[BenchVue Team]

Unfortunately, there are no short term enhancements planned for the 34420A, but I have added it to the list! Thanks for suggesting it.

Brian

[smgvbest]

Hi Plesa and smgvbest, I can't deny or confirm the inclusion of future instruments or capability in a public forum like the EEVBlog. However, we are constantly working on adding new instrument support to BenchVue along with other requests (many that have been brought up here in this forum!). We definitely appreciate the feedback provided in this forum and some of you might get what you want in 2016.

Keep up the requests, we are tracking what users want to see in BenchVue.

~David

Great to hear,  I'm maybe purchasing a 34465A soon,  do wish TEquipment offered the edu discount on it.  it's awesome being able to combine edu and the eevblog discount when you can (totally unrelated to BV)

[Sparky]

@BenchVue Team:

Any plan to add 53200 Series RF Frequency Counters/Timers to BenchVue app?  If not, I think I am not the first or second person to make the recommendation

Thanks!
Sparky

[plesa]

@BenchVue Team:

Any plan to add 53200 Series RF Frequency Counters/Timers to BenchVue app?  If not, I think I am not the first or second person to make the recommendation

Thanks!
Sparky

Count me in
Good start point can be Timelab http://www.ke5fx.com/timelab/readme.htm

[Sparky]

@BenchVue Team:

Any plan to add 53200 Series RF Frequency Counters/Timers to BenchVue app?  If not, I think I am not the first or second person to make the recommendation

Thanks!
Sparky

Count me in
Good start point can be Timelab http://www.ke5fx.com/timelab/readme.htm

Thank you plesa!  Perfect timing  It's an immediate help

[ECEdesign]

I am looking to get a HP/Agilent/Keysight 34401A (likely used since I'm a student).  What can I do with the free version of this software with that multimeter?  Assuming I figure out how to interface serial with my computer.

[plesa]

I am looking to get a HP/Agilent/Keysight 34401A (likely used since I'm a student).  What can I do with the free version of this software with that multimeter?  Assuming I figure out how to interface serial with my computer.

You can use the DMM connectivity utility or you can try to apply for Free BenchVue DMM Pro.
https://www.keysight.com/main/editorial.jspx?cc=GB&lc=eng&ckey=2620987&id=2620987&cmpid=1-7025931885

Check thread
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/free-benchvue-dmmfgdaq-pro/

It has similar functionality like free Agilent DMM connectivity utility.
http://www.keysight.com/en/pd-2307503/digital-multimeter-dmm-connectivity-utility-software

Which is the best if you do not want to make your own scripts in Python.
Another possibility is to use Excel macro for logging directly to spreadsheet ( it is posted few pages back).

[PioB]

Pleasant surprise, Benchvue just updated itself to 3.1.1602.19. Unfortunately, I cannot find a changelog. New instrument support perhaps as at the surface it seems to look the same?

Edit: Miswrote 3.3 instead of 3.1. Corrected.

[rosbuitre]

Version 3.1

http://www.keysight.com/main/software.jspx?ckey=2417463&lc=eng&cc=US&nid=-536902435.1058513&id=2417463

Regards

[Sbampato12]

I've tried the E3632A power supply with benchvue, and the voltage range 15V works OK, but the software shows the second range as 20.6V instead the 30V of the power supply.

By front panel (manual operation) I'm able to change the voltage range to 30V and choose any voltage inside the range.

May it be a kind of bug, or I'm doing something wrong?

PS: I'm using GPIB interface.

[deepskyridge]

Any chance of adding the 33120A function gen to benchview ??

Thanks
Gary

[BenchVue Team]

Hi All, this forum always seems to be on top of things. We did release our newest BenchVue platform release this last week, the latest version is 3.1. The platform releases are a maintenance release so you won't see much difference besides some performance enhancements and the odd bug fixes.

We also released updates to 3 of our apps this week as well. The Power Supply app, Spectrum Analyzer app, and Network Analyzer app have all been updated and you should be able to update via the app tab in BenchVue.  New instruments have been added to each of these apps along with additional defect fixes.

We also released an Electronic Load app that should help those of you doing power characterization. This Eload app allow you to control your electronic load. Characterize your power by data logging power, current, and voltage. For those that need an easy method of controlling parallel channels, you can do that easily with our parallel channel configurator. Once you've setup your parallel channel, you can control the parallel channels as if they were a single load. You can also automate your measurements with other instruments with our Test Flow app.

The latest list of supported instruments is located at
http://www.keysight.com/find/BenchVueInstruments

~David

[BenchVue Team]

I've tried the E3632A power supply with benchvue, and the voltage range 15V works OK, but the software shows the second range as 20.6V instead the 30V of the power supply.

By front panel (manual operation) I'm able to change the voltage range to 30V and choose any voltage inside the range.

May it be a kind of bug, or I'm doing something wrong?

PS: I'm using GPIB interface.

This is a known bug. Please try updating to version 3.1 and let me know if you still have the problem.

Brian

[Sbampato12]

I've tried the E3632A power supply with benchvue, and the voltage range 15V works OK, but the software shows the second range as 20.6V instead the 30V of the power supply.

By front panel (manual operation) I'm able to change the voltage range to 30V and choose any voltage inside the range.

May it be a kind of bug, or I'm doing something wrong?

PS: I'm using GPIB interface.

Yep, thats right. I've had problems with update (two attempts, both failed) but then I've downloaded it again (the new one) from website and installed. It works now!

Thanks.
This is a known bug. Please try updating to version 3.1 and let me know if you still have the problem.

Brian

[surachoke]

Any plan for Benchvue support on the InfiniiVision 6014L low profile oscilloscope?

As far as I know, the 6000A version can be utilised with Benchvue.

[plesa]

It is quite unlikely to add support for this scope, but it is still active product. Try to change identificator of scope from 6014L to 6014. I do the same trick for L4411A DMM, which also do not have support in BenchVue ant it works like charm.

[surachoke]

Could you please show me how to change the identificator?

Can this be done on the Benchvue or Keysight IO Lib.?

It is quite unlikely to add support for this scope, but it is still active product. Try to change identificator of scope from 6014L to 6014. I do the same trick for L4411A DMM, which also do not have support in BenchVue ant it works like charm.

[Karel]

Hi All, this forum always seems to be on top of things. We did release our newest BenchVue platform release this last week, the latest version is 3.1. The platform releases are a maintenance release so you won't see much difference besides some performance enhancements and the odd bug fixes.

What's the status of the Linux version?

[plesa]

Could you please show me how to change the identificator?

Can this be done on the Benchvue or Keysight IO Lib.?

It is quite unlikely to add support for this scope, but it is still active product. Try to change identificator of scope from 6014L to 6014. I do the same trick for L4411A DMM, which also do not have support in BenchVue ant it works like charm.

On L4411A I modified multimeter firmware. For DSO6000 try to look in configuration files for BenchVue, because firmware seems to be shared with non L version.

[6thimage]

Hi All, this forum always seems to be on top of things. We did release our newest BenchVue platform release this last week, the latest version is 3.1. The platform releases are a maintenance release so you won't see much difference besides some performance enhancements and the odd bug fixes.

What's the status of the Linux version?

Unlikely I'm guessing. Benchvue appears to be written in matlab (with the matlab/mathworks copyright on the about screen), so it should be possible for it to be compiled for linux, but keysight's IO library is windows only, and I doubt they will ever release a linux version.

However, benchvue works quite well in a virtual machine.

[VK5RC]

Hi David, 
Can I also put a vote in for B-V to be able to control a 3458a, it is your high end DMM and I feel should be included.
Thanks
Robert

[Dr. Frank]

I updated to BenchView, PRO DMM 3.2, and also my 34465A to latest FW 2.14, which has now 2MB of memory.
FW 2.14 got an improvement in internal timing, to avoid "possible race conditions".

It is now possible over LAN to digitize with full 50kHz rate, without any 20µs delay, or so, and also without crashing the BV software.

The samples really occur in 20µs steps.

For longer sample counts, like 4MSa, anyhow, BV takes much longer than the calculated 80sec.

I can't figure out yet, what happens here, obviously the instrument and/or the BV program have still problems with direct data transfer.

Frank

[Messtechniker]

BenchView does not honour math

For example: my trusted 34465A indicates (locally) -0.100 dB.
And BenchVue indicates -0.100 VAC. BenchVue should rather indicate -0.100 dB
- which I would prefer - or the proper pre-math value of 0.766 VAC.

Yours - Messtechniker

[FivePoint03]

I updated to BenchView, PRO DMM 3.2, and also my 34465A to latest FW 2.14, which has now 2MB of memory.
FW 2.14 got an improvement in internal timing, to avoid "possible race conditions".

It is now possible over LAN to digitize with full 50kHz rate, without any 20µs delay, or so, and also without crashing the BV software.

The samples really occur in 20µs steps.

For longer sample counts, like 4MSa, anyhow, BV takes much longer than the calculated 80sec.

I can't figure out yet, what happens here, obviously the instrument and/or the BV program have still problems with direct data transfer.

Frank

Can you share your 50k setup - I have BenchVue Pro 3.1.1602.19 / DMM Pro 3.2 trial / FW A.02.14-02.40-02.14-00.49-02-01 / library 1.21, and still only 25k.  I really need 50k!

[Dr. Frank]

Here's my working setup. The signal is a 10V reference with chopper spikes.
By zooming in, you can clearly see the 20µs / 50kHz sample spacing.

Currently I connected the instrument via USB, to avoid any network and firewall problems over the internal LAN network. (The 1 GBit LAN does work also, anyhow).


The highest rate of 50kHz can not be set consistently, sometimes I also get this limitation of 25kHz, or a forced trigger delay of 20µs, which I can not get rid of via BV.

Root cause, is that the 34465A is not set properly to DIGITIZING, but will stay in CONTINUOUS mode instead, which implements this 20µs delay.
I think, the initialization to fastest setting is not working correctly.

In this case, I set the instrument to local, and set it manually to DIGITIZING, zero delay, and so on.

If I select DIGITZING over BV afterwards, it will usually work, and you can now also set zero delay in the BV menu, as displayed.

If I use long samples as 1MSa or so, the digitizing and data transfer takes much too long.. obviously, the data were not transferred fast enough over the bus.
One problem is the wrong data format, ASCII, instead of binary (8 byte real number).

See command log, by using IOMonitor and command logging.

As a summary, BV is still not optimized for digitizing at fastest rates.
I recommend to get the 2M memory option (you'll get it for free, currently), and then sample at 50Khz directly into the instrument, creating a file afterwards, which you may import to PC over USB or LAN.

Frank

Update:
I have the 2nd DMM Pro license installed on a much faster machine, also USB, same problems. So the speed of the PC is not the crucial parameter.
 
It's working with 50kSa/sec, if I go to local <shift key> => <Acquire> => <Digitize>

If I chose 1MSa/Trigger , 1 Trigger, it takes 40sec instead of 20sec to digitize and upload.
It takes 3 minutes, if I set 1Sa/Trigger and 1M Triggers.

Root cause is also the simple READ command to transfer data: "R?"
This FiFo transfer, using the output buffer, slows everything down.
This has to be programmed differently, w/o buffering, directly reading, or DMA transfer, and again, using 8 byte REAL format, instead of 16bytes ASCII format.
Keysight should also change 34465A firmware to have the elder 4 byte REAL format available, like in the 34411A. (also for compatibility reasons)

Keysight anyhow uses the VISA / IVI interface and drivers for MatLab, where data transfer is probably not optimized for fast acquisition.
Or maybe they need to use a different command set / macro for DMA, I'm not familiar with that package.

Update II:

LAN, including several switches and central router seems to slow down transfer to 25kSa/sec.
Over USB, it works up to 2 MSa.

data transfer is about 100kB/s on the first 40s, where the 34465A is busy digitizing.
After that, data rate increases to about 700kB/sec, where 34465A can respond to data requests with full speed.

A 2byte integer format would be better, (like the 3458A), then the 34465A state machine would be able to transfer data in real time.

Digitizing sample depth with BV is limited to the depth of the 34465A internal memory (50kSa or 2MSa), plus a certain percentage of data transfer during the digitizing phase.
Additional samples will be skipped.

[6thimage]

I've just come across a different bug with BenchVue - it incorrectly displays small current values on the instrument settings. When set to 1 uA (DC) the multimeter flashes up something like 0.000 004 uADC but BenchVue shows 0.000 4340 uADC. Strangely, the data logging and digitising show the correct value.

One problem is the wrong data format, ASCII, instead of binary (8 byte real number).

I'm really quite surprised at this (it's the reason I fired up BenchVue today) - I'm surprised it works (to a limited extent) and that Keysight aren't using the binary mode, the whole reason the binary mode is available is for digitising (hence why it is not enabled on the 34460/61A), especially considering the 3446xA only have 10/100 MBit network interfaces. I can only guess that the developers at Keysight are testing under ideal conditions (i.e. no network traffic on small networks).

[D3f1ant]

Is there any plans to add a Benchvue SMU App for the 2900 Series? Basically just a benchvue implementation of the rather clunky looking (but functional) Quick IV Measurement software would be nice.

[6thimage]

Just came across another problem with benchvue - when zooming into data on the graph that is not towards the beginning of the capture, the data is incorrectly displayed - I'm guessing your resampling for the lower zoom rates is not being correctly removed. I've attached two pictures of a repetitive signal, the first picture is the first falling edge, the second is of the second falling edge. The cursors are positioned as close together as benchvue would allow - in the first picture this cursors are on consecutive samples, in the second picture they are not. Just in case you want to try it, I've also attached the data.

Just a couple of side notes - I like that you have now added the ability to upload the data already in the multimeter's memory, it's very useful, and could you list an email address as to where the bug reports / issues are meant to be sent - I use a fairly minimal virtual machine, so benchvue says to install an email client and then email a zip, but it doesn't say where to.

[BenchVue Team]

It looks like we haven't been checking the forum enough recently! Allow me to give a quick response to some of these questions, some of the more detailed feedback will require us to look into the apps a little bit more deeply before we can adequately address them.

Thanks everyone for using BenchVue, taking your time to write these comments, and being passionate about test and measurement!

@Surachoke - I've added your request for the 6014L to our requests log. Hopefully we'll get progress in this area as it shouldn't be too difficult to integrate the commands. However there could be additional considerations for a faceless scope that we'll need to investigate.

@ Karel - Thanks for your interest in a Linux version. This is under serious consideration from Keysight but as you can imagine its not a trivial task. Once there is an early preview of the Linux version, can I call on you for some alpha/beta testing and feedback?

@VK5RC - Noted on the 3458A request. We've heard this many times and hopefully we'll be able to fit it into one of our upcoming development cycles.

@ Dr. Frank & @Messtechniker & @6thimage - We appreciate the feedback and characterization of the DMM app. Give our team some time to look into these points and we'll come back to the forum with our findings in the next week or two.

@D3f1ant - Some of the B2900 series are supported with BenchVue today. We currently support the B2901A, B2902A, B2911A, B2912A, B2961A, B2962A. These can be used with our power supply app.


~David

[nctnico]

A Linux version would interest me as well!

[6thimage]

A linux version would interest me as well and I would be more than happy to help in alpha/beta testing.

[BenchVue Team]

Thanks nctnico and 6thImage . It might be a while before we are ready for users to test, but we will keep you on a short list of interested Linux users!

[rosbuitre]

A linux version would interest me as well and I would be more than happy to help in alpha/beta testing.

Me too (debian) 

[Omicron]

I would second the request to add support for the DSO6000L line of rack mount oscilloscopes (DSO6014L, DSO6054L and DSO6104L). They were marketed as 100% software compatible with the DSO6000 line so should be trivial.

It seems the list of supported oscilloscopes is encoded in an XML file that is included as a resource in the AgInfiniiVision6000_06_10_0001.dll driver. I figure adding support for these scopes is as trivial as listing them there. Unfortunately the XML is signed so one can't just hack it in.

[kaz911]

I just installed latest 3.1 to test my new 34465A - but my opinion has not changed from v1.6?

The software is BLOATED - installs far to many background services - is slow - does not follow any UI design standards at all  - installs a permanently loaded "license manager" with taskbar icon?

Here is a list of what I have found running permanently so far

64-bit Agilent 82357 Server Utility - 1.6MB
64-bit Keysight E8491 I/O Server Utility - 2.0MB
64-bit Keysight IO Control - 1.4MB
64-bit Keysight USBMC/USB488 I/O Server Utility 1.6MB
ACE-Server - 20MB
Agilent IO Libraries Named Kernel Object Server 8.3MB
Agilent IO Libraries Service - 4.9MB
Agilent PXI Resource Manager (32-bit) - 3.7MB
Keysight Communications Fabric (32-bit) - 12.8MB
Keysight Licence Notifier (32-bit) - 12.6MB
Keysight License Service (32-bit) - 13.6MB
Keysight mDNS Responder Service - 1.2MB

So in total - 83.7MB of memory used while BenchVue is not open or in use. Why the F does so many things have to RUN in the background?

So in short - it might look better than the 1980's design Fluke does on their software - but it is just bloated and takes 1000 times as much space - probably because it seems to be built on top of Mathlab. It is not because of .Net...

So I will .. uninstall ... again and check version 5 when it comes out.

If you want to run it - put it in a virtual machine where it can do less harm... That is what I might do.
 
Installer bug: Installer requests a reboot - which is not needed. Then if you cancel the reboot - you get no warning - installer just quits with no message. Here it would be normal or nice to say " You can continue to install BenchVue after the reboot" - but since a reboot is not needed at all - it should not be there (On Win10 all services got installed and started without having to resort to a reboot) - just restarted the BenchVue installer and everything continued and BenchVue ran fine without any reboots. But I guess I might find more Agilent/Keysight background processes running after a reboot...

Sorry for the rant but I do not understand why Test gear software needs to be so OTT bloated for the LITTLE amount of features they have. So i'm back at CMD Expert or my own scripts.

[D3f1ant]

I had to disable the plugin it installs into excel, it seems to stop Excel prompting to save changes to documents when it's closed (old office 2010 on win10). With the plugin is disabled the prompt behaviour goes back to normal, perfectly repeatable on my machine.

I also get the occasional warning from the licence manager that my system clock is set forward from real time.

[D3f1ant]

@D3f1ant - Some of the B2900 series are supported with BenchVue today. We currently support the B2901A, B2902A, B2911A, B2912A, B2961A, B2962A. These can be used with our power supply app.

In the PSU app the only thing I can do is turn output on/off and set V and I limit, not exactly feature rich considering the capabilities available on the unit itself.

[BenchVue Team]

@D3f1ant - Some of the B2900 series are supported with BenchVue today. We currently support the B2901A, B2902A, B2911A, B2912A, B2961A, B2962A. These can be used with our power supply app.

In the PSU app the only thing I can do is turn output on/off and set V and I limit, not exactly feature rich considering the capabilities available on the unit itself.

See the Test Flow video that uses a B29xxA SMU as a transistor curve tracer:


Brian

[D3f1ant]

But that's not free, and correct me if I'm wrong but test flow is only available on a yearly renewable licence. (And still doesn't offer full control). I am just suggesting an improvement that might make me reinstall benchvue, as long as I don't have complete harmony amongst my keysight gear I don't see the point of having it installed. The Quick IV Measurement application works fine, would just be nice to have it inside benchvue. I'm sure you can find a way to cripple it just enough to make a pro version a worthwhile expense

Actually another suggestion would be to have a usable free version of Test Flow. maybe limit the number of steps or combination of instruments in the free version but I would be more likely to buy a pro version if I could play with it on my own gear.

[HighVoltage]

BenchVue v3.5 is out since 2016-06-21

"New platform features and enhanced usability. New Test Flow capabilities and added support for new apps (FieldFox, signal generator and more). Also added support for additional Keysight instruments."

http://www.keysight.com/main/software.jspx?cc=US&lc=eng&ckey=2417463&nid=-32762.0.08&id=2417463

[rx8pilot]

I installed and tried BenchVue yesterday - for the first time. The hope was to create some basic automation and logging. The first PC install failed on the C++ components - not sure what to do about that. Moved to another PC and it installed just fine, although it took a remarkably long time.

Once up and launched, the only officially compatible instrument I have (MSOX6004A) will not connect. It shows up at the bottom but without any apparent connection. I comes up in NI Visa and responds to manual commands.

I was hoping to get lucky and be able to control my older PSU's HP and Agilent 66xx series. That does not seem to be on the list. Predictably, I cannot control Keithley DMM's or Chroma DC loads which makes sense. I think I have to keep pushing forward with LabView to accomplish any automation. I feel like I will always have a brand mix of instruments needing to be automated.

Is there any plan to create a more general purpose tool or is BenchVue largely on the market to encourage buying only Keysight instruments? Totally understandable of course, but it would be nice to see this easy to use tool available for more. LabView is very powerful at the expense of complexity and a steep learning curve. Most of what I am after is fairly basic, but doing basic things in LabView requires a solid commitment in training/programming.

[HighVoltage]

My DSOX6004A connected to BV without any problems on first try and works really well.

Does your MSOX6004A show up correctly in the I/O libraries?
Can you communicate to the instrument via the I/O libraries commands?

[rx8pilot]

My DSOX6004A connected to BV without any problems on first try and works really well.

Does your MSOX6004A show up correctly in the I/O libraries?
Can you communicate to the instrument via the I/O libraries commands?

When you say I/O Libraries - do you mean the NI Explorer? That is what launches when I select open libraries. The scope shows up there and responds to *IDN? correctly. The name shows up at the bottom of the BenchVue screen - but it is not connected.  No serial # or firmware reported. The graphic is generic. Not sure where to turn first.

EDIT:
It returns data, but there is also an error.

EDIT2:
Oops. I was on the raw socket connection. Query the INSTR and it works just fine in the NI VISA Test Panel.

[rx8pilot]

....Now I am installing the Keysight IO Libraries with it's 'secondary' VISA. I didn't even know there was such a thing. Lets see if it does better now.

[rx8pilot]

That worked! Connection success. Now it's time to explore to see if BenchVue solves any of my daily challenges.

Sent from my horrible mobile....

[HighVoltage]

Great, yes you have to have the VISA connected to the Keysight libraries.
Re- Installing the I/O libraries new, usually fixed the problems for me.
I am not sure if you even could use the NI VISA.
I have only the Keysight Libraries installed and all my Agilent / Keysight gear is working perfectly with it.

[HighVoltage]

New BenchVue Version 3.7 has been officially released

http://www.keysight.com/main/software.jspx?cc=DE&lc=ger&ckey=2417463&nid=-32133.0.08&id=2417463

Release Date: 2016-12-01
Version: 3.7

Notable changes:
- Bug fixes and performance improvements
- Troubleshooting Tool installed as part of BenchVue installation
- Added new If/Then/Else block in BenchVue Test Flow

BenchVue has become an important part of my lab and for documentation purpose.
Thank you to Keysight for providing regular updates.

[nfmax]

New BenchVue Version 3.7 has been officially released

I fired up Benchvue (3.1) for the first time in quite a while last night, to check out an E3642A PSU I just scored. I checked for updates, and it told me an update was available. Clicked the download button for that - great, now I'm on 3.5. Fired that up, and it told me there was a new version of the DMM app available. Downloaded that, and it proceded to download and install Benchvue 3.6 as a prerequisite. OK, so I clicked, waited for all that to finish, fired it up, and just for a laugh, checked for updates. Only now do I see 3.7 is available. Clicked yet again for yet another 500MB download and install. Finally got there!

By this time it was 11:50pm. Now my broadband has been upgraded, I get just over 4mb/s synch speed, so the whole evening was basically wasted waiting for packets. Oh and before I could start all this there was a whole batch of critical Windows Updates to download and install.

A whole wasted evening.

Keysight, please can you get all your s**t in one sock & sort out your updates?

[HighVoltage]

I noticed the update system is far from perfect.

One way to get around all this is to download the latest version of BV from the Keysight website.
At least it worked for me.
 

[prasimix]

I'm wondering is it possible to add in BV support for a SCPI device that is not produced by Keysight?

[nfmax]

I'm wondering is it possible to add in BV support for a SCPI device that is not produced by Keysight?

I'm wondering is it possible to add in BV support for a SCPI device that is produced by Keysight?

[prasimix]

Sorry, that is not produced by Keysight

[plesa]

In Testflow app you can control instruments which are not HP/Agilent/Keysight brand.
You needs to know exact commands of course and it is not so intuitive.

[guenthert]

New BenchVue Version 3.7 has been officially released

I fired up Benchvue (3.1) for the first time in quite a while last night, to check out an E3642A PSU I just scored. I checked for updates, and it told me an update was available. Clicked the download button for that - great, now I'm on 3.5. Fired that up, and it told me there was a new version of the DMM app available. Downloaded that, and it proceded to download and install Benchvue 3.6 as a prerequisite. OK, so I clicked, waited for all that to finish, fired it up, and just for a laugh, checked for updates. Only now do I see 3.7 is available. Clicked yet again for yet another 500MB download and install. Finally got there!

By this time it was 11:50pm. Now my broadband has been upgraded, I get just over 4mb/s synch speed, so the whole evening was basically wasted waiting for packets. Oh and before I could start all this there was a whole batch of critical Windows Updates to download and install.

A whole wasted evening.

Keysight, please can you get all your s**t in one sock & sort out your updates?

I'm not on their team, but as a software engineer I can say that it is fairly common practice (even for expensive for-profit software) to require updates in sequence.  This is to i) simplify the software (each version needs only to know only one previous version's data format etc. from which to upgrade) and ii) keep the software test matrix at a manageable size.  So I'd be surprised if they are going to change that requirement.

An alternative is to uninstall the old version (and potentially throw away configuration and all old data or convert it into a 'portable' format prior).

[kaz911]

I think one of the problems with BenchVue is that each module is a 100% separate program.  Some modules save configuration in XML - others in " unknown "

So each individual module need explicit firewall pass through approval - So now I'm glad I don't have ALL 20 or so module It also means that functions in ONE module might not be mirrored in another module so each module act slightly different with logging and graphics - I find that annoying. You expect it to work one way - and suddenly one module does not incorporate that feature you expected. I will actually go so far as to say it is bad developer and project management.

but more in my upcoming review.

[coldframe]

Any chance of adding the 33120A function gen to benchview ??

Thanks
Gary

I installed BenchVue Version 3.2, Still No support 33120A
Is it hard to support 33120A?
Please offer the same kind of support as always.

coldframe.

[BenchVue Team]

Not "hard", but we are focusing on newer products. Now at 450 and counting! The 120 is now obsolete. Might be time to consider an upgrade to the TrueForm 335xx series.

Note that with SCPI and Command Expert blocks, you can at least control the 33120A from Test Flow (you'll have to use the 33220A command set). And with some upcoming enhancements to Command Expert, you'll soon be able to talk to the 3458A and other non-SCPI instruments!

Brian

[HighVoltage]

And with some upcoming enhancements to Command Expert, you'll soon be able to talk to the 3458A and other non-SCPI instruments!

Brian

What a great outlook, to finally use BenchVue on the 3458A
Thank you !

 

[HighVoltage]

The new version, BenchVue 2017 is online.

http://www.keysight.com/en/pd-2775041-pn-BV0000A/benchvue-software-platform?nid=-32133.1206973.00&cc=US&lc=eng

Notable changes:
- BenchVue 2017 supports the new “B” model apps that include instrument control, data analysis, and Test Flow
automation.
- Support for network floating licenses allows multiple users to easily share license use (requires local license
server setup).
- Updated Apps tab experience to indicate license status, “What’s New” information provided for each app.
- Ability to use and display 2 apps and Test Flow at the same time.
- Test Flow enhancements:
o Removed restrictions on model number and serial number.
o Users may now run Test Flow sequences with compatible instruments in the same series

[Messtechniker]

Thanks for rendering my Benchvue Pro licence useless 
because I will now have to purchase the DMM app for my 34465A which was free before.

As far as I am concerned that's it. I hated Benchvue anyway because
of its slowness and the black hole GUI.

Moreover, because KS forced me to install Microsoft Net x.x more thanks
go to MS for messing up (deleting half) the icons on the primary monitor.

So it's SNAFU again. 

It seems today is not my day.
BV DMM had a hard time finding my 34465A. After several attempts it finally found it. Hurray
Upon trying to use the DMM app BV crashed giving me blank white screens on both monitors.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Messtechniker,
I'm sorry to hear about the issues you've been facing with BenchVue2017. Can I ask that you email us at  benchvue.support@keysight.com so we can get you back up and running with the DMM license ( you will not need re-purchase a DMM PRO license ). We will also figure out why the DMM app crashed for you.

Also, can you elaborate more on BenchVue being slow and the blackhole GUI ? I would like to make sure we capture your comments for the next update of the DMM app.

I'll let our support team know that you'll be contacting them. Just reference you talked to Sid on the EEVBlog for context.

Thanks for your patience.
Sid

[phs]

Hi Sid,

We love our KS/Agilent/HP products and appreciate the hard work that has gone into BenchVue.   A few years ago we inherited a full license for BenchVue, and I fired it up briefly on a Virtual Machine running a personal copy of Windows XP (officially licensed).  Though we were dismayed at the size of the installation and the reliance on humongous Microsoft libraries, as well as a couple of show-stopping bugs,  it did look like BV could be useful in the future -- if it were released for Linux.  We deleted the XP VM with BV.

A number of years ago we ditched all Microsoft products to save money wasted on audits, license management, additional security requirements, and the myriad risks of agreeing to Microsoft EULA's.  The BSA can never harass us again.  Life has been great and our entire business infrastructure and development tool chain runs beautifully, Microsoft-free.  It's actually surprisingly easy, with all of the support for Linux dev tools from the vast majority of the major manufacturers these days, as well as the powerful project management, real-time collaboration, CRM, and ERP tools available.

At this point we simply don't want or need to dedicate the resources required to safely run MS products -- for our business model it would only add unnecessary risk and expense.

Though it's clear KS is now dependent on the MS framework for BV, I still want to encourage you to please release your software products on OS platforms that don't force additional risk and expense on your customers.

Thanks for your consideration, and the great hardware you folks produce.  Just wanted you to be aware of some of the issues faced by small companies struggling to keep costs down and security up by not entering into dangerous licensing terms with Microsoft.

phs

[Messtechniker]

Thanks for your patience.
Sid

OK cooled down a bit  now.

Since the network card driver was also messed up , I recovered the backup
I just made before updating Benchvue , so I am basically back to square 1.
Will give the update a second try tomorrow and see how it goes.

Yes, I know I am using an older computer for my electronics related tasks (3.40 gigahertz Intel Pentium 4, 4 GB memory, Samsung SSD 850 EVO 250GB with plenty spare space ) running W7 32 bit. All other programs I use on this computer do not tax it in any way (except  fft points over 500000 at sample rates of 192 kHz 24 bits set up on Audio Tester). But Benchvue does so massively pushing the processor to 100% over minutes.

I simply don't like that big black user interface which violates all Windows GUI guidelines. Other software (Adobe Audition CC for example) uses the same kind of GUI. Black is simply depressing. Apparently the GUI designers currently like it very much. But I don't. In the case of Adobe Audition CC it is not possible to brighten up the GUI very much. Luckily in this case I can manage quite well with the older versions (1.5 and 3.0).

Hope to get the DMM app working in trial mode.
However, I am not prepared to purchase a licence for the DMM app
as I have not used Benchvue very much in the past for the reasons given above.

Will report tomorrow how the second updating attempt goes.

[HighVoltage]

My installation of BenchVue 2017 went alright ...

1. Remove / Uninstall the old BV completely
2. Download the BV installer from the Keysight website
3. Install BV
4. Install the DMM App so far,

No problems so far. The DMM app seems to run smoother than before.





 

[plesa]

My installation of BenchVue 2017 went alright ...

1. Remove / Uninstall the old BV completely
2. Download the BV installer from the Keysight website
3. Install BV
4. Install the DMM App so far,

No problems so far. The DMM app seems to run smoother than before.

After upgrade to 2017 your licences/keys needs update ( new licence).
David Tu from Keysight send link to survey
http://www.keysight.com/find/benchvue-2017-upgrade-survey
And based on email it will trigger the key update.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi phs,
Thanks for your note, that is good feedback for us. We ( Keysight ) have been hearing similar stories across our customers ( both small business and large corporations by the way ) regarding shifting their infrastructure away from MSFT tools. It is something we are aware of and paying close attention to. Thanks for reaching out  to provide some color on the topic.
Sid

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Just a note - I would recommend waiting for David's email before filling out the form as you will need some information unique to each order.
Sid

My installation of BenchVue 2017 went alright ...

1. Remove / Uninstall the old BV completely
2. Download the BV installer from the Keysight website
3. Install BV
4. Install the DMM App so far,

No problems so far. The DMM app seems to run smoother than before.

After upgrade to 2017 your licences/keys needs update ( new licence).
David Tu from Keysight send link to survey
http://www.keysight.com/find/benchvue-2017-upgrade-survey
And based on email it will trigger the key update.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Thanks for the explanation. We do have plans to add options for a lighter theme in the future for those that don't really like the dark theme. Do let us know if you have any difficulty with the download.

Thanks for your patience.
Sid

I simply don't like that big black user interface which violates all Windows GUI guidelines. Other software (Adobe Audition CC for example) uses the same kind of GUI. Black is simply depressing. Apparently the GUI designers currently like it very much. But I don't. In the case of Adobe Audition CC it is not possible to brighten up the GUI very much. Luckily in this case I can manage quite well with the older versions (1.5 and 3.0).

Hope to get the DMM app working in trial mode.
However, I am not prepared to purchase a licence for the DMM app
as I have not used Benchvue very much in the past for the reasons given above.

Will report tomorrow how the second updating attempt goes.

[nctnico]

Hi phs,
Thanks for your note, that is good feedback for us. We ( Keysight ) have been hearing similar stories across our customers ( both small business and large corporations by the way ) regarding shifting their infrastructure away from MSFT tools. It is something we are aware of and paying close attention to. Thanks for reaching out  to provide some color on the topic.

From another (mostly) MS-free R&D lab: it would be nice if Keysight finally committed to a timeline for a Linux version because this has been a long standing request. Nowadays it isn't a good idea (investment) to develop engineering software which can only run on Windows.

[Dr. Frank]

My installation of BenchVue 2017 went alright ...

1. Remove / Uninstall the old BV completely
2. Download the BV installer from the Keysight website
3. Install BV
4. Install the DMM App so far,

No problems so far. The DMM app seems to run smoother than before.

Yep, upgrade spoiled the DMM Pro licensing.
Did you remove all components , including command expert, etc?

Frank

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Frank, your existing PRO license will not work with BenchVue 2017. Can you please contact us at  benchvue.support@keysight.com so we can get this addressed ? Also wanted to let you know that the new licenses now come bundled with a Test Flow license to allow easy automation for your DMMs.

Sid

Yep, upgrade spoiled the DMM Pro licensing.
Did you remove all components , including command expert, etc?

Frank

[Messtechniker]

My installation of BenchVue 2017 went alright ...

1. Remove / Uninstall the old BV completely
2. Download the BV installer from the Keysight website
3. Install BV
4. Install the DMM App so far,

Did this now instead of updating through the installed Benchvue prog which messed things up quite nicely.

Immediately found one silly thing with the DMM app. When using the math on the 34465A to display decibels, Benchvue will not show dB but mV instead. Like -0.19 dB is displayed by BV as - 0.19 mV .

[HighVoltage]

Did this now instead of updating through the installed Benchvue prog which messed things up quite nicely.

Yes, the update through the installed BenchVue software is terrible. I did this once before, it took hours and still did not work. Always best to remove it completely and then re-install the new one.

The APP updates worked it the past, just sometime you need to start the download of an APP again, when it hangs.
 

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

This looks like a bug - Let me feed it back to the team to fix. Thanks for pointing it out !
Sid

 Like -0.19 dB is displayed by BV as - 0.19 mV .

[Dr. Frank]

Hi Frank, your existing PRO license will not work with BenchVue 2017. Can you please contact us at  benchvue.support@keysight.com so we can get this addressed ? Also wanted to let you know that the new licenses now come bundled with a Test Flow license to allow easy automation for your DMMs.

Sid

Yep, upgrade spoiled the DMM Pro licensing.
Did you remove all components , including command expert, etc?

Frank

Hello Sid,
I received the upgraded licenses (2EA) after filling out the survey.
Unfortunately, these are obviously annual subscription licenses only, the DMMPro App already counted down from 365d to 364d left, although the certificate indicates a "transportable, perpetual license", as before.

Is Keysight kidding me?

Frank

[Messtechniker]

I received the upgraded licenses (2EA) after filling out the survey.
Unfortunately, these are obviously annual subscription licenses only, the DMMPro App already counted down from 365d to 364d left, although the certificate indicates a "transportable, perpetual license", as before.

Is Keysight kidding me?

Frank

Same here too! After going through all the hoops.

This licensing thing is a nuisance for all customer as it needs a lot of time (I reckon at least one hour net per licence) to go through all the hoops. As a customer you will have to add your hourly rate to the overall cost, even if a licence is free.

As past experience shows it will be cracked anyway in due time.

[Dubbie]

I am kinda pissed that you don't get logging functionality with the benchtop DMMs. It kinda seems like expected functionality but you have to pay hundreds of dollars to get it.

[plesa]

I am kinda pissed that you don't get logging functionality with the benchtop DMMs. It kinda seems like expected functionality but you have to pay hundreds of dollars to get it.

There are multiple free options for DMM logging, like using the Command Expert ( part of BenchVue) with Excel. Or you can use for instance Python for controlling instrument and saving to .csv files.
It is lightweight, compatible across platforms and etc.

[SimonD]

Question.
If i buy right now a used 34401A or even better a brand new 34461A can i download the Benchvue 2017 to collaborate with one of those instruments without the need to pay more money for the Software ?
Thanks!

[HighVoltage]

Question.
If i buy right now a used 34401A or even better a brand new 34461A can i download the Benchvue 2017 to collaborate with one of those instruments without the need to pay more money for the Software ?
Thanks!

You can use BenchVue 2017 and activate a trial version for 4 weeks.

Other alternatives:
1.) Use the previous version of BenchVue, but that is limited in logging time after the trial "Pro" has expired
2.) Or the older Agilent DMM logging software that is unlimited in logging time, just does not have all the nice features.

[plesa]

Question.
If i buy right now a used 34401A or even better a brand new 34461A can i download the Benchvue 2017 to collaborate with one of those instruments without the need to pay more money for the Software ?
Thanks!

Yes, it will work but  DMM logging  is limited to one hour ( ony Pro do not have limitation, but needs to be purchased separatelly) Or you can download DMM_Connectivity_Utility_1.0.2.0.exe
 where is no time limit for logging and utility is free of charge.
Or you can Command Expert and log it into Excel without time limit for free.

[Dubbie]

Yeah I've been using the old software with no time limit. Would be nice to use Benchvue tho.

[SimonD]

OK Thanks! Can i ask the cost for the license to "PRO" upgrade?

[Messtechniker]

Enclosed a screenshot why you should mostly keep to the Windows style guide to prevent other software - in this case monitor switching software - from messing up the GUI.

[Messtechniker]

And here the next GUI messup. When remotely monitoring a BV logging curve via VNC (Ultra VNC or Tight VNC) the measured numbers are displayed but not the curve .
Keeping to the Windows style guide would have prevented this.
As demonstrable when remotely viewing Profilab logging curves, for example.

Maybe the above messup is not so. And VNC did not cause this. But what is certain: BV after logging a long time (5 hours, or so) no longer displayed the logged curve. Triggering the measurements went on as usual and the measured values were displayed and updated as usual. But the curve display was lost. Will investigate furter. Obviously this will take some time.

[KE5FX]

Maybe if Microsoft weren't doing everything in their power to torpedo their own operating system, people would be more interested in following their style guidelines.

[Messtechniker]

To save SSD writes, I wanted to change the default path for the actively
logged data to an internal HDD drive other than C: which is on a SSD.
Could not find a setting for this in the BV 2017 DMM app.
Searching "path" in the DMM app help file and going through it did not tell
me anything on this. It seems the path for the logged data is fixed.

[srce]

Am I correct in thinking that the 2017 version requires a £200 license for the Oscilloscope Control module and another £200 license for the DMM module, but these were both free (at least with basic functionality) in the 2016 version?

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Frank,
The new licenses are perpetual licenses meaning you can use them forever without any restrictions. The countdown you're seeing is the number of days left in your update subscription. All licenses include a 1 year SW subscription which gives you free access to all the product updates for your application. After the subscription expires, your license is preserved. You just won't get product updates and feature enhancements that we release after the 1 year. ( Here is the online help that talks about licensing for BenchVue - http://rfmw.em.keysight.com/bihelpfiles/BenchVue/BV_2017/PlatformApp/English/Default.htm )

Sid

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Simon,
If you're planning to upgrade to PRO, would really recommend you look at BenchVue 2017 ( which doesn't have a base and PRO version ). Most product enhancements going forward will be focused on BenchVue 2017. The prices for most applications range from <$100 to ~$300 based on the type of license you want. i.e. if you want it for perpetual use or just for 1 year ( perpetual or time-based in our lingo ) and whether you want to move it around or use it for just 1 PC ( node locked, transportable or networked ) . There is more information detailed at this page --http://rfmw.em.keysight.com/bihelpfiles/BenchVue/BV_2017/PlatformApp/English/Default.htm

OK Thanks! Can i ask the cost for the license to "PRO" upgrade?

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Messtechniker,
Yes, you're right - the path for the datalogs is fixed right now. I'll add it as an enhancement to allow us to change it. In case you weren't able to find the location, what you can do is go to the Data Manager tab, right click on your datalog and select Open File Location. This will open the folder for your datalogs.

It seems the path for the logged data is fixed.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi srce,
Yes, applications in BenchVue 2017 require a paid license. However, with each license you now get full access to Test Flow for your app to allow easy measurement automation without programming. This application previously was only available as a subscription license for $300/year. A number of our 2017 apps have received numerous enhancements ( DAQ, Spectrum Analyzers, Network Analyzers, FieldFox ) with many more to come for our other apps. We truly hope you will find this continued and focused investment in our application enhancements beneficial for your measurement needs.
Sid

Am I correct in thinking that the 2017 version requires a £200 license for the Oscilloscope Control module and another £200 license for the DMM module, but these were both free (at least with basic functionality) in the 2016 version?

[D3f1ant]

Congratulations Keysight, you've done the exact opposite of what I was expecting 

I was hoping you would drop the ridiculously overpriced pro licences and make benchvue free and awesome for everybody as a selling point for your hardware. Instead, you've done the opposite, no free PC software for anybody     Oh well at least now I'll save some drive space and I no longer have any reason to keep building my harmonious Keysight environment, which will save my business a lot of money

[kaz911]

BenchVue Team

how is the pricing put together? I do understand you can buy a perceptual license - so FT/TP/NP marked. But then there is a time based as well? So is the time based the "subscription"? So if I buy a FT/TP/NP license - 1 year of FY/NY/TY is included - and FY/NY/TY is what I will have to extend my license with next year? Or is there a different update license?

And can I buy JUST the FY/NY/TY license and then just renew every year?

I find it a big mess... and very expensive for what BV provides. The MathLab with instrument extensions is actually a lot better value IMHO.

[Sparky]

@Keysight BenchVue Team: I'm finding it hard to find details of the new licensing scheme also.  Overall, I'm a bit concerned.

I bought a paid license for the BenchVue DMM application, which provided a 2 seat (movable) license and no mention of expiring upgrades to the DMM app.  In effect (to my knowledge) it was a one-time purchase on my part with (presumably) unlimited update of the BenchVue DMM app (at least while that application existed).  It seems the new BenchVue 2017 DMM app provides a 1 seat license with 1 year of "unlimited" updates...end of story.

So what happens after that 1 yr of updates?  I didn't find details about a subscription or having to renew each year, etc., but it appears something like that is the case.  Please clarify or provide a link to website with all the necessary details.  Thanks!

[Karel]

Any plans for a Linux version? Only some ladies from administration are using windows. All engineers are using Linux here...

[kaz911]

Any plans for a Linux version? Only some ladies from administration are using windows. All engineers are using Linux here...

I think BV will be hard to move to an independent platform. BV is so tied into .NET that even I'm surprised...  But I would more call it .NET abuse than .NET usage... If it was use - it would follow Windows standards - it absolutely does not follow any common GUI standards.

But yes BV2017 seems like an even bigger disappointment. So far only about 30-35 real products supported (and deviations thereof) - so it is rather limited.

 Not only that - support for each instrument is very limited to basic functions. Very few hardware options are usable. Like on my N6700 with power modules - BV can't use any of the fast acquisition modes which makes the high speed data logging functions in the 6700 - well unusable... So while it does support the N6700 power modules - it only supports a subset of the features - and a really small subset. Same goes for the Scope app etc. - basic functions supported to some degree. Anything above that - no support.

I think it is about 60-70% of times I want to log something - I find out that BV does not do that and ends up being faster to do in Python or Excel with command expert. And it is faster to do in Excel as BV is so sluggish and bloated due to the architecture chosen.

So saying BV supports 100's of instruments is marketing speak. It has very limited support for 100's (actually 34-36 product lines) of Product codes usually with only most basic integration with a few exceptions. And where it would be great for things like Keysights USB based products Meters/Scopes/SMU's - there is ZERO support. There you are still tied up with app's with latest release in 2013.

It is a very random product. And I'm sorry to sound so harsh - but really it has very little value for me - and I do a lot of long time data logging (days/weeks/months) - some at ultra high speed some very slow. But I have a hard time finding a use for BV.

I actually prefer the display on my 34465A when logging compared to the display on the BV. And once BV runs you have limited visualisation on the 34465A - that is for once not BV's fault but due to the implementation of remote logging.

[TheAmmoniacal]

Is the new BenchVue just as cancerous as the last? Does it install 10-11 different folders under Program Files? Does it add itself to startup? Does it still have several processes running 24/7 using RAM? Does it still put a tray icon in my taskbar that's there even if the app is not running? Is the uninstaller still useless, leaving most files and registry keys behind?

I guess nobody cares because it's always installed on someone else's computer? 

 

[FivePoint03]

Do we need a license for the BenchVue itself or just the individual apps?

[srce]

Am I correct in thinking that the 2017 version requires a £200 license for the Oscilloscope Control module and another £200 license for the DMM module, but these were both free (at least with basic functionality) in the 2016 version?

Yes, applications in BenchVue 2017 require a paid license. However, with each license you now get full access to Test Flow for your app to allow easy measurement automation without programming. This application previously was only available as a subscription license for $300/year.

Thanks, but that's unfortunately not a feature I'm interested in, so looks poor value for me, particularly given the subscription model.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi D3f1ant
I can certainly appreciate where that comment is coming from. I really hope we don't lose you as a Keysight and BenchVue customer. I assure you the decision we took for BenchVue wasn't without  considerable deliberation ( I am on the team ) given we've always prided ourselves on putting our customers above all. Our hope is that in the long run, the additional focus and investment Keysight is making into BenchVue will add considerable value and win you back over. Do let us know if there is anything we can do
Sid

Congratulations Keysight, you've done the exact opposite of what I was expecting 

I was hoping you would drop the ridiculously overpriced pro licences and make benchvue free and awesome for everybody as a selling point for your hardware. Instead, you've done the opposite, no free PC software for anybody     Oh well at least now I'll save some drive space and I no longer have any reason to keep building my harmonious Keysight environment, which will save my business a lot of money

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Kaz911,
Not quite - You have a couple of options. The licenses all have two letters.


FIRST LETTER- This dictates how much flexibility you want in moving the license around
- If you want it to just stay on one Machine, choose F ( Fixed )
- If you want it to move around different PCs, Choose T ( Transportable )
- If you want to host it on a server so multiple people have non-simultaneous access, choose N ( Network )
In terms of Price it is , F < T < N

SECONDLETTER - choose how long you'd like to use the license
- If forever, then choose a P ( Perpetual ). This includes 1 year of updates. After one year, you can continue to use your license but you need to pay a renewal fee to get updates for another year. The license types and pricing ( which will be very nominal ) for this renewal fee isn't yet available on the web but will be in the coming months.
- If you only need it for one year, choose Y ( Year ). This is generally 1/3rd the price of the perpetual. After 1 year, you can repurchase the license again and receive the updates for another year.

Your options therefore are
FP,TP,NP and FY,TY,NY

I know this is confusing right now, but we will we updating our webpages to make this very clear and provide upfront pricing for each on of these so its easy to pick and choose. Generally speaking they run from about <$100 to ~$300

how is the pricing put together? I do understand you can buy a perceptual license - so FT/TP/NP marked. But then there is a time based as well? So is the time based the "subscription"? So if I buy a FT/TP/NP license - 1 year of FY/NY/TY is included - and FY/NY/TY is what I will have to extend my license with next year? Or is there a different update license?
And can I buy JUST the FY/NY/TY license and then just renew every year?
I find it a big mess... and very expensive for what BV provides. The MathLab with instrument extensions is actually a lot better value IMHO.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi kax911,
Can I ask you to elaborate a little more on your comment ? What functionality would you like to see in BV to bring it up to par to your expectations ?
Sid

I find it a big mess... and very expensive for what BV provides. The MathLab with instrument extensions is actually a lot better value IMHO.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Sparky,
Yes that is correct. After 1 year, the license will continue to work but app won't be updated with the latest enhancements. A nominal yearly renewal/subscription/upgrade fee is needed to get updates for another year. We're currently working on providing literature that describes the update process that will take effect in April 2018.

Sid

@Keysight BenchVue Team: I'm finding it hard to find details of the new licensing scheme also.  Overall, I'm a bit concerned.

I bought a paid license for the BenchVue DMM application, which provided a 2 seat (movable) license and no mention of expiring upgrades to the DMM app.  In effect (to my knowledge) it was a one-time purchase on my part with (presumably) unlimited update of the BenchVue DMM app (at least while that application existed).  It seems the new BenchVue 2017 DMM app provides a 1 seat license with 1 year of "unlimited" updates...end of story.

So what happens after that 1 yr of updates?  I didn't find details about a subscription or having to renew each year, etc., but it appears something like that is the case.  Please clarify or provide a link to website with all the necessary details.  Thanks!

[kaz911]

Hi Kaz911,
Not quite - You have a couple of options. The licenses all have two letters.


FIRST LETTER- This dictates how much flexibility you want in moving the license around
- If you want it to just stay on one Machine, choose F ( Fixed )
- If you want it to move around different PCs, Choose T ( Transportable )
- If you want to host it on a server so multiple people have non-simultaneous access, choose N ( Network )
In terms of Price it is , F < T < N

SECONDLETTER - choose how long you'd like to use the license
- If forever, then choose a P ( Perpetual ). This includes 1 year of updates. After one year, you can continue to use your license but you need to pay a renewal fee to get updates for another year. The license types and pricing ( which will be very nominal ) for this renewal fee isn't yet available on the web but will be in the coming months.
- If you only need it for one year, choose Y ( Year ). This is generally 1/3rd the price of the perpetual. After 1 year, you can repurchase the license again and receive the updates for another year.

Your options therefore are
FP,TP,NP and FY,TY,NY

I know this is confusing right now, but we will we updating our webpages to make this very clear and provide upfront pricing for each on of these so its easy to pick and choose. Generally speaking they run from about <$100 to ~$300

Ok that was how I thought it was. So you can buy a perceptual license for X and keep the usage right or you can lease it for 1/3 of the price.

But if you want updates you still have to pay 30% - same price as for those who "lease".

Question - if I have perceptual can I then upgrade when I want - so wait 3 years and then buy another 1 year upgrade?
Comment: It seems slightly unfair to pay the same for updates (30%) - as the ones leasing the software for the same price as I would pay for updates. And to be honest - paying 30% for updates is very much on the high scales - that would require Keysight to seriously speed up development for me to consider that an option. Before I would not even consider paying $300 for Flow renewal so I think in any case I'm out.

And btw - 30% is not a "nominal" fee for renewal. Please look up the definition of Nominal... In my book Nominal would range in this case from 1-10%. Calling 30% nominal is an abuse of the word

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

HI Kaz911,
Thanks for the honest comments, that's why we're here - to get some real feedback from users. I"ll try to address for comments the best I can.

Linux - We're paying close attention to it but you are right, it will be an architectural change to make BV cross platform.
USB based products Meters/Scopes/SMU's - stay tuned, it's on its way - soon
Not enough instrument feature coverage - Yes, we hear you here. This is something we are going to be actively addressing. The reason for not have rich HW feature support is that initially most BV customers were using their instrument front panel for setup and turning to BV for data transfer. This changed in a major way over the years and we are going to be addressing it.

It sounds like you use DMMs , Scopes and Power supplies a lot. When we begin development on the next version of these apps, I'd be personally interested in getting your feedback on them if you're up for it and have the time ( that goes for others on the forum as well. We're actively looking for customers to work with us to give us feedback on apps in development )

Thanks
Sid

Any plans for a Linux version? Only some ladies from administration are using windows. All engineers are using Linux here...

I think BV will be hard to move to an independent platform. BV is so tied into .NET that even I'm surprised...  But I would more call it .NET abuse than .NET usage... If it was use - it would follow Windows standards - it absolutely does not follow any common GUI standards.

But yes BV2017 seems like an even bigger disappointment. So far only about 30-35 real products supported (and deviations thereof) - so it is rather limited.

 Not only that - support for each instrument is very limited to basic functions. Very few hardware options are usable. Like on my N6700 with power modules - BV can't use any of the fast acquisition modes which makes the high speed data logging functions in the 6700 - well unusable... So while it does support the N6700 power modules - it only supports a subset of the features - and a really small subset. Same goes for the Scope app etc. - basic functions supported to some degree. Anything above that - no support.

I think it is about 60-70% of times I want to log something - I find out that BV does not do that and ends up being faster to do in Python or Excel with command expert. And it is faster to do in Excel as BV is so sluggish and bloated due to the architecture chosen.

So saying BV supports 100's of instruments is marketing speak. It has very limited support for 100's (actually 34-36 product lines) of Product codes usually with only most basic integration with a few exceptions. And where it would be great for things like Keysights USB based products Meters/Scopes/SMU's - there is ZERO support. There you are still tied up with app's with latest release in 2013.

It is a very random product. And I'm sorry to sound so harsh - but really it has very little value for me - and I do a lot of long time data logging (days/weeks/months) - some at ultra high speed some very slow. But I have a hard time finding a use for BV.

I actually prefer the display on my 34465A when logging compared to the display on the BV. And once BV runs you have limited visualisation on the 34465A - that is for once not BV's fault but due to the implementation of remote logging.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Fair enough - We're made some improvements here. Part of the reason why there are processes running in the background is for licensing and auto detection of instrument you connect to your PC. There is also other SW that comes along with BenchVue such as IO Libraries, Command Expert, Waveform Builder, etc which is perhaps what the others folders are ... But once again, fair comment.

Sid

Is the new BenchVue just as cancerous as the last? Does it install 10-11 different folders under Program Files? Does it add itself to startup? Does it still have several processes running 24/7 using RAM? Does it still put a tray icon in my taskbar that's there even if the app is not running? Is the uninstaller still useless, leaving most files and registry keys behind?

I guess nobody cares because it's always installed on someone else's computer? 

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Just the apps, the platform itself does not need a license. Also, 30 day trials are available directly from within the platform ...
Sid

Do we need a license for the BenchVue itself or just the individual apps?

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi srce, understood that the automation aspect isn't valuable for you. Just want to point out in case there was confusion around Test Flow. It is no longer a subscription price - it's included with each app license now.
Sid

Am I correct in thinking that the 2017 version requires a £200 license for the Oscilloscope Control module and another £200 license for the DMM module, but these were both free (at least with basic functionality) in the 2016 version?

Yes, applications in BenchVue 2017 require a paid license. However, with each license you now get full access to Test Flow for your app to allow easy measurement automation without programming. This application previously was only available as a subscription license for $300/year.

Thanks, but that's unfortunately not a feature I'm interested in, so looks poor value for me, particularly given the subscription model.

[kaz911]

Sorry for being harsh - but after having developed high performance database/internet software for 25+ years i'm now back at hardware. And I'm surprised at the path the BV team has chosen. Not only have the platform decisions made it hard to be flexible - it must also be a nightmare to maintain already with each app in its own executable - probably with little sharing between each module apart from logged data and control? Am I right?

I would personally rip up the fabric completely and isolate all functions. So the Scope App (or maybe is really should be a DLL) - should ONLY have functions to interpret the measures, trigger measurements and a way to format queries. Everything else should be in the main app - even communications with each instrument and on screen presentation of the measurements in a cohesive fashion - not random like now..

Every instrument should be in classes - defined in XML or similar. So a base XML for Power supplies providing the main communications fabric. (On/Off/Set Voltage/Current / Set limits etc) - then maybe a model file for each specific standard function type over and above standard. And finally a product specific model file that could define which basic functions are supported + standard functions + the last bits of "non-standard" behaviour specific for that exact model  - And then of course open up for 3rd parties to "Inherit" from the XML and build their own Products...

I know a FEW of the modules do have XML definitions for the products - but again - waste a lot of space as the whole definition for each instrument is in each XML. I have an older Signal Gen - which I compared to the XML in the 4428C - and it would take maybe 15 minutes to change the XML to suit my older Signal Gen.. If the spec for the XML was public and I knew more about SCPI but 99% of the commands listed in the XML are compatible with my older Signal Gen - but it is not supported....

And since most products in the same group share a heck of a lot of SCPI the above approach would probably work quite well.....

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Kaz911

But if you want updates you still have to pay 30% - same price as for those who "lease".

Not quite- if you "lease", then you just buy the 1-year lease again to use it. If you buy the perpetual, you don't pay 30% for updates. We are working out final details here but it won't be same as the 30% lease charge.

Question - if I have perceptual can I then upgrade when I want - so wait 3 years and then buy another 1 year upgrade?

You can wait to renew your license after 3 years, but renewal price will be slightly more than the standard renewal price. Sorry I don't have definite numbers for you, as this will go into effect 1 year from now and we're finalizing it.

Before I would not even consider paying $300 for Flow renewal so I think in any case I'm out. And btw - 30% is not a "nominal" fee for renewal. Please look up the definition of Nominal... In my book Nominal would range in this case from 1-10%. Calling 30% nominal is an abuse of the word

Test Flow doesn't need to be renewed at $300/year - that was the old model. With the 2017 licenses, Test Flow is included with it and there is no extra purchase or renewal fee.

Ok that was how I thought it was. So you can buy a perceptual license for X and keep the usage right or you can lease it for 1/3 of the price.

But if you want updates you still have to pay 30% - same price as for those who "lease".

Question - if I have perceptual can I then upgrade when I want - so wait 3 years and then buy another 1 year upgrade?
Comment: It seems slightly unfair to pay the same for updates (30%) - as the ones leasing the software for the same price as I would pay for updates. And to be honest - paying 30% for updates is very much on the high scales - that would require Keysight to seriously speed up development for me to consider that an option. Before I would not even consider paying $300 for Flow renewal so I think in any case I'm out.

And btw - 30% is not a "nominal" fee for renewal. Please look up the definition of Nominal... In my book Nominal would range in this case from 1-10%. Calling 30% nominal is an abuse of the word

[kaz911]

Hi Kaz911

But if you want updates you still have to pay 30% - same price as for those who "lease".

Not quite- if you "lease", then you just buy the 1-year lease again to use it. If you buy the perpetual, you don't pay 30% for updates. We are working out final details here but it won't be same as the 30% lease charge.

Question - if I have perceptual can I then upgrade when I want - so wait 3 years and then buy another 1 year upgrade?

You can wait to renew your license after 3 years, but renewal price will be slightly more than the standard renewal price. Sorry I don't have definite numbers for you, as this will go into effect 1 year from now and we're finalizing it.

Before I would not even consider paying $300 for Flow renewal so I think in any case I'm out. And btw - 30% is not a "nominal" fee for renewal. Please look up the definition of Nominal... In my book Nominal would range in this case from 1-10%. Calling 30% nominal is an abuse of the word

Test Flow doesn't need to be renewed at $300/year - that was the old model. With the 2017 licenses, Test Flow is included with it and there is no extra purchase or renewal fee.

Ok that was how I thought it was. So you can buy a perceptual license for X and keep the usage right or you can lease it for 1/3 of the price.

But if you want updates you still have to pay 30% - same price as for those who "lease".

Question - if I have perceptual can I then upgrade when I want - so wait 3 years and then buy another 1 year upgrade?
Comment: It seems slightly unfair to pay the same for updates (30%) - as the ones leasing the software for the same price as I would pay for updates. And to be honest - paying 30% for updates is very much on the high scales - that would require Keysight to seriously speed up development for me to consider that an option. Before I would not even consider paying $300 for Flow renewal so I think in any case I'm out.

And btw - 30% is not a "nominal" fee for renewal. Please look up the definition of Nominal... In my book Nominal would range in this case from 1-10%. Calling 30% nominal is an abuse of the word

Ahhh ok so the maintenance fee will not be the same as the *Y prices. Ok then i'm slightly more calm. I just got the impression you had to buy another *Y license to get maintenance.

ok so while you contemplate what the renewal prices should be Nominal as in the real meaning of the word would be a great thought.. And I did not think the Flow license cost was nominal

[blackdog]

Hi Group 

Hi Sid.BenchVueTeam,
This is not personal!

BenchVue is no software to be proud of!

I use is know for more than two years and it's annoying.
This is about the logging with te HP 34461A.

Look at this picture, i'am measuring my lab 10V reference and zeroed the DMM, it is easy to make the middle of the screen "0" and to adjust the span so that its easy to readout the value.
Look +-5uV and not the BenchVue garbage  like 5,1e-6...
The drift of the value, is the meter, not my reference :-)



And now a screenshot of the: be proud of BenchVue software!
Look at the value on top, realy 100pV resolution???
Leftsite, compare this to my first picture, nicely done, good job hobby coders 
And look at the bottem, placing text on top of each other, but it can be worse...



Here i'am measuring temperature of a small oven, resolution 1uC 
Scale 200nC/div. 
Look at the value on the left site of the screen, you must be kidding...



BenchVue is using almost 400MB of memory and is using 16 processes...
Hobby coders!!!

Kind regards,
Blackdog

[Sparky]

Hi Sparky,
Yes that is correct. After 1 year, the license will continue to work but app won't be updated with the latest enhancements. A nominal yearly renewal/subscription/upgrade fee is needed to get updates for another year. We're currently working on providing literature that describes the update process that will take effect in April 2018.

Sid

@Keysight BenchVue Team: I'm finding it hard to find details of the new licensing scheme also.  Overall, I'm a bit concerned.

I bought a paid license for the BenchVue DMM application, which provided a 2 seat (movable) license and no mention of expiring upgrades to the DMM app.  In effect (to my knowledge) it was a one-time purchase on my part with (presumably) unlimited update of the BenchVue DMM app (at least while that application existed).  It seems the new BenchVue 2017 DMM app provides a 1 seat license with 1 year of "unlimited" updates...end of story.

So what happens after that 1 yr of updates?  I didn't find details about a subscription or having to renew each year, etc., but it appears something like that is the case.  Please clarify or provide a link to website with all the necessary details.  Thanks!

Thanks for the clarification, Sid.  Plus, your other post to describe the F/T/N and P/Y options is very helpful as explanation.

While the word is still out on license/subscription/upgrade pricing, my concern this moment is how my previous 2 seat Transportable DMM app license will be "upgraded" to BenchVue 2017.  Will it become a single seat Fixed license?  If so, it means I have to buy another license, or pay/upgrade to Transportable (which seems a pain just to switch between a laptop and workstation) or Network.

Can you clarify how our existing licenses are upgraded to BenchVue 2017?

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Blackdog
None taken ... You guys throw quite the punch, but that's why we're here
I'll be the first to admit that our charts in apps need an update. Some of our meters do make measurements down to 10^-9/^-12/^-15 although not in the DMM series. Bear with us as we address these concerns. I"ve already forwarded your comments and pics to our dev team as additional feedback on this topic.

Do keep sending us such feedback
Sid

Hi Group 

Hi Sid.BenchVueTeam,
This is not personal!

BenchVue is no software to be proud of!

I use is know for more than two years and it's annoying.
This is about the logging with te HP 34461A.

Look at this picture, i'am measuring my lab 10V reference and zeroed the DMM, it is easy to make the middle of the screen "0" and to adjust the span so that its easy to readout the value.
Look +-5uV and not the BenchVue garbage  like 5,1e-6...

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Sparky,
Your existing PRO license will be upgraded to 1 Transportable Perpetual ( -TP ) 2017 license. This will allow you to move them between PCs. Let me know if that doesn't answer your question.
Sid

Can you clarify how our existing licenses are upgraded to BenchVue 2017?

[TheAmmoniacal]

@Sid

We might be a bit harsh, but that's because we care! And hopefully, the reason why you are here. No use for compliments, eh? Most of us use it or have tried it, that must mean something.

Your engagement with us is much appreciated, and that alone beats the competition in my book 

[blackdog]

Hi Sid,

/Complane mode
Don't get me started... 

Several time i have made remarks about the HP3458A DMM, its not included in the DMM software! 
And most time's i get this as responce:  It actually IS different than other DMMs. It’s a beast to program
And my repley is then: Do you now understand why the HP 3458A should be supported!
That's why you need real coders! get all the 3458A possebility's in the BenchVue software, please don't start telling us it is difficult, that your job(Keysight) to code it well!

If i look at BenchVue, (sorry) i do not see the quality HP stood for all these years...
The pictures of the interface errors, i told KeySight more than 2 years ago also.
I find it unbelievable that such errors are still present in the software.

Sid think with me, how do you think i feel about the BenchVue software?
Do I have point out KeySight these simple software errors, this is realy silly?
Who the hell is in charge of this program, if i whas CEO, I would have dismissed many managers.
My opinion is that, the coders/managers have no idea of what engeneers wants to see in BenchVue.

And don't get me started about the licensing, i had a unlimited licence and now it is 1 year...
O yes, i heart someware that KeySyght want to become a software company, maybe BenchVue is the start of it all...

Brrrr

Yes i'am a happy custumer! 
friendly mode/

Kind regards,
Bram 

[blackdog]

Hi Sid,

Are you ready for more? *grin*

Test setup
1x 34461A measuring a oven temperature (5K NTC Sensor)
1x 34461A measuring a 10V LAB reference
1x 34401A measuring a 10V portable reference

The 34461A measuring the oven.



The 34461A measuring the 10V LAB reference.



The 34401A measuring a 10V portable reference.



Quad instrument vue, QUE!
Is scaling for the KeySight coders a big problem? this is realy silly, real helpful this view.



Let try horizontal view Whoehahahahah



And vertical view, i'am speechless...



And yes i know i can grab the trace and move him, but stil i cant view the hole trace!
Do you want me to go on?


Kind regards,
Bram

[nfmax]

Can I point you at:

Justin Talbot, Sharon Lin, and Pat Hanrahan An Extension of Wilkinson’s Algorithm for Positioning Tick Labels on Axes, 2010. URL http://graphics.stanford.edu/vis/publications/2010/labeling-preprint.pdf

Worth a read!

[blackdog]

Hi Sid,

Are you still there 

My last pictures about the BenchVue Interface, then i hope you understand my frustration.
These pictures i had to make with my camera, sorry for the lower quality.

It is posible to change the vertical scale, but the way to do it is anoying.
You right-click on the vertical scale, wait and then carefully move up or down with the mouse.
The scale changed than in odd steps...



And now for something completely different... hahaha
The scale setting has now a resolution of YES, 100 Atto Celsius, Whe have a winner! 



In this last picture you can see that there is a posibility to do a "auto scale", but most of the times i do not want this.
Usually I would have scaled the single image to a smaller image, including the graticule.



I hope that my pictures and remark helps to make BenchVue a better product.
And yes, i have more remarks about the software, but I hope that other users share their experiences on this forum.


Kind regards,
Blackdog,
Bram

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Blackdog
Yes very much so ! Have read all the messages ( they come directly to my Keysight email ) and have 4-5 to get back to including yours. Sorry, just been swarmed and need to carve out some time to provide thoughtful responses to all the questions and feedback.  Not scared away - on the contrary, really appreciate the honest interaction !

Sid

Hi Sid,

Are you still there 

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Blackdog,
Regarding the 3458A DMM - we hear that pretty often and is one of the most requested improvements to the DMM app. Putting on my Product Manager hat for a second, the reasoning really is what you described. the 3458A is not really compatible with the SCPI interfaces we have for the other DMMs supported in our app. Hence the effort required to add it is significantly more than say the effort to improve all our DMM graphs, data logging speed and visualizations. Support for 3458A will likely be added, we just have other basic enhancements we've prioritized over it for the short term ( that will benefit all DMM users ). Not really offering up an excuse but providing some explanation for why its taking a while to add support.

Where I dont have an explanation to offer up is your comment regarding those silly issues you've pointed out for over two years . Just an apology and a promise that we are addressing it.

Sid

Hi Sid,

/Complane mode
Don't get me started... 

Several time i have made remarks about the HP3458A DMM, its not included in the DMM software! 
And most time's i get this as responce:  It actually IS different than other DMMs. It’s a beast to program
And my repley is then: Do you now understand why the HP 3458A should be supported!
That's why you need real coders! get all the 3458A possebility's in the BenchVue software, please don't start telling us it is difficult, that your job(Keysight) to code it well!

If i look at BenchVue, (sorry) i do not see the quality HP stood for all these years...
The pictures of the interface errors, i told KeySight more than 2 years ago also.
I find it unbelievable that such errors are still present in the software.

Sid think with me, how do you think i feel about the BenchVue software?
Do I have point out KeySight these simple software errors, this is realy silly?
Who the hell is in charge of this program, if i whas CEO, I would have dismissed many managers.
My opinion is that, the coders/managers have no idea of what engeneers wants to see in BenchVue.

And don't get me started about the licensing, i had a unlimited licence and now it is 1 year...
O yes, i heart someware that KeySyght want to become a software company, maybe BenchVue is the start of it all...

Brrrr

Yes i'am a happy custumer! 
friendly mode/

Kind regards,
Bram 

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

nfmax, great resource, thanks ! I personally am not familiar with this labeling algorithm but will get our usability team's eyes on it to see if they are ...
Sid

Can I point you at:

Justin Talbot, Sharon Lin, and Pat Hanrahan An Extension of Wilkinson’s Algorithm for Positioning Tick Labels on Axes, 2010. URL http://graphics.stanford.edu/vis/publications/2010/labeling-preprint.pdf

Worth a read!

[blackdog]

Hi Sid, 


If i read your remarks aboud the HP3458A my feeling tell me it is not gonna happen

About the user interface, i hoop to see it fixt next week 


And then this, maybe its helps to get some perspective, for my Rigol scoop i installed today Rigols Ultra Scoop, what a peace of sh..
The lagging of the interface... totaly unusable.
If you install it, it ask you to switch of a important Windows Service, are they out of the Vulcan minds at Rigol...

Looking at BenchVue then, its not so bad 

Kind regards,
Bram

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Can't really promise it next week, but it'll be done  .

Regarding 3458A, honestly it's on my list of things to add for the DMM App but further down. I don't think we'll be adding it in 2017. 

Sid

Hi Sid, 


If i read your remarks aboud the HP3458A my feeling tell me it is not gonna happen

About the user interface, i hoop to see it fixt next week 


And then this, maybe its helps to get some perspective, for my Rigol scoop i installed today Rigols Ultra Scoop, what a peace of sh..
The lagging of the interface... totaly unusable.
If you install it, it ask you to switch of a important Windows Service, are they out of the Vulcan minds at Rigol...

Looking at BenchVue then, its not so bad 

Kind regards,
Bram

[Messtechniker]

Using Ultra VNC for remote access from a PC or Real VNC from a smartphone
will not display the BV graphs.  . See attachment.
Could others please check this to ensure it's just not only me.

If so, please make BV compatible with VNC programs.

A bit later:
Restarted BV after even on the local PC the graph died.
And now UVNC displays the BV graph nicely.
This seems to me a bit of a hit and miss affair.

[blackdog]

Hi Messtechniker,

I use Microsoft RDC for viewing BV, no problems with that.
But, i wil test Real VNC for you and get back about if it works.

Kind regarts,
Blackdog

[blackdog]

Hi Messtechniker and Sid (I hope you arte still watching)


I installed Tight-VNC on my measuring computer, because RealVNC demands a account for testing, NO WAY! 

So i make a connection on my workstation with the RealVNC Viewer and at the first look its fine.
I also installed the RealVNC viewer in my ASUS Nexus 7 tabled, see the picture below, its works but VNC not so responsive as i want it to be...


And now for Sid, this is my 34401A measuring a 10V reference, look at the text on the left side and on top, on top should be this value: 10.00004 and its shows 000010 VDC how about silly...
But actually I think something else 

Kind regarts,
Blackdog

[HighVoltage]

And now for Sid, this is my 34401A measuring a 10V reference, look at the text on the left side and on top, on top should be this value: 10.00004 and its shows 000010 VDC how about silly...
But actually I think something else 

Kind regarts,
Blackdog

This silly thing was pointed out by me years ago and still stayed with BV all these years.
May be it is only indicating the range instead of the actual value instrument value.

[blackdog]

Hi HighVoltage,

There are so manny "bugs" in BenchVue that's my opinion, that there is absolutly no quality control by people who know there stuf about multimeters and how to use them.
This is really silly if look at the interface of the 34461x series multimeter, KeySight dit a realy good job there!, so the knowledge is in the company, why not use it...

There is a big difference (grand canyon) between what softwarecoders think is right and what users find what is intuitively in a interface.
For the errors i pointed out in my pictures, i should fired the coders, thats why i name them "Hobby Coders" too silly for words.
How dare you to push out this code, with al the bugs... and after a year you have to pay again for hopefully les bugs...

Kind regarts,
Blackdog

[kaz911]

I think a lot of the mishaps in display is due to the usage of MathLab as the driver.

That is also one of the reasons for the bloat. Who builds a 500MB installable with so few functions in them? Only people who rely exclusively on a mish mash of 3rd party products put together with band aid.

But I find in general both Keysight & Tektronix PC software to be full of garbage to say the least. I have no idea how you can make software that does so little take so much space and be so slow. I wish they would send their programmers off to a isolated island for 3 years - and ONLY with computers w 1GB RAM and 100GB hard drive - and tell them they can come back when they have some high performance code that works on that platform. Tektronix is getting better though but very slowly.

And one more lesson - if something is not needed all the time - DO NOT START IT AS A BACKGROUND. AKA Keysight License "Server" and others. That should just be a DLL that can be started on a license request. No reason at ALL for that to stay alive when no other tools requesting license data is running - so no reason to install it as a service in the first place. It is a bad habit inherited from buggers like Adobe. But if you then do make a license server - then make it small and efficient - not a 100MB RAM consuming constant running background process. I can understand the NETWORK license server would need to run 24/7/365 - but not a License "client"

Yes - in slightly more polite terms than some of my fellow EEVBlog members here - please get some coders on board who can code real software and not just rely on 3rd party libraries and plugins and environments. Yes it cost more but as it is now - I'm not ready to pay anything for BV - it is still a toy - or what we in my old job would have called a "Proof of Concept Prototype".

Here I think the the best term would be "Yes - you have made the breadboard version and it kind of works - now move it on to prototype and then production"

[HighVoltage]

Tektronix is getting better though but very slowly.

To be fair, the Tektronix / Keithley software for the Keithley DMM7510 is horrible in functionality, interface and speed.
BV is light years ahead of that.

There are some nice features in BV that I am using all the time and it helps me greatly in my job. But what I really don't understand is that many silly bugs that have been pointed out by me and many others have not been fixed over the years.

[blackdog]

Hi kaz911,

One of my Dutch forum members has this under al his messages: The mind is a funny thing. Sometimes it needs a good whack on the side of the head to jar things loose
And several times i heard that the Coders of BenchVue were very proud of their work,
so i think than about the text of my forum member and to make it more clear i took the time to explane myself with a lot of pictures to prove it.

And I do not want to be rude, but sometimes it helps to be as direct as possible to make people understand what the problem is.

Kind regards, <= yes i mean this!
Bram

[kaz911]

Tektronix is getting better though but very slowly.

To be fair, the Tektronix / Keithley software for the Keithley DMM7510 is horrible in functionality, interface and speed.
BV is light years ahead of that.

There are some nice features in BV that I am using all the time and it helps me greatly in my job. But what I really don't understand is that many silly bugs that have been pointed out by me and many others have not been fixed over the years.

My reference to better is SignalVu-PC - that has gotten better but still far from great...   But I still absolutely hate the VISA driver packages from both Keysight & Tektronix. One should think it was possible to write "Serial Over Ethernet" applications that did not take up so much space and was so slow.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Question -> Is using a VNC on a PC to remote into the local PC using BenchVue a common use case or it is occasional ? Any reason for not just installing BenchVue on the remote PC and connecting directly to the instruments ( besides lag ).
Sid

Hi Messtechniker,

I use Microsoft RDC for viewing BV, no problems with that.
But, i wil test Real VNC for you and get back about if it works.

Kind regarts,
Blackdog

[KE5FX]

Question -> Is using a VNC on a PC to remote into the local PC using BenchVue a common use case or it is occasional ? Any reason for not just installing BenchVue on the remote PC and connecting directly to the instruments ( besides lag ).
Sid

I spend a lot of time accessing my PC via my iPhone and iPad over VNC.  Great for checking/restarting tests while on the road, at lunch, or just lying in bed.  If there's a BenchVue app with identical functionality that can share control with an instance running on the test PC back at the lab, that could be a reasonable substitute.  But I already have my LAN and firewall configured for VNC access, so at least for me, it wouldn't be the path of lowest loop inductance.

The test software framework that I'm developing now can actually act as a VNC server by itself.  I consider it that important.

[Messtechniker]

Question -> Is using a VNC on a PC to remote into the local PC using BenchVue a common use case or it is occasional ? Any reason for not just installing BenchVue on the remote PC and connecting directly to the instruments ( besides lag ).
Sid

Well, I use VNC all the time, because my electronics lab is in the basement and I don't want to run down there all the time just to see what's going on. VNC is a bit laggy of course , but as I don't exercise the programs, it this case does not matter much to me. Installing BV on the monitoring PCs (I have several) is not an option for me a) because BV is so bloated, b) because of licensing costs, c) for software maintenance reasons, d) because I want to keep the data in one place and e) because sometimes I want to view BV via a smart phone.

Incidentally just at this moment VNC again did not want to display the BV graph again. So for the moment I will have to give up on VNC displaying BV. By the way BV is the only program which does not like to work with VNC (or the other way round). All others except those using video overlays work fine albeit be bit slower.

What I would recommend you do with BV? I don't know.
Give up BV as it currently is completely and go back to the drawing board starting at square 1?
Invest in programming more and better Labview drivers and apps?
Go the open source route supporting/acquiring the Sigrok project (which currently is not mature enough yet), for example?

Yours Messtechniker

[kaz911]

Question -> Is using a VNC on a PC to remote into the local PC using BenchVue a common use case or it is occasional ? Any reason for not just installing BenchVue on the remote PC and connecting directly to the instruments ( besides lag ).
Sid

Hi Sid,

I think there are a few reasons for remoting (RDC/VNC) to the PC measuring. First my "Bench PC" is dedicated to live on my bench - it has some USB GPIB interfaces and some RS232 devices connected. They can be shared on the network but only with pain.

2nd - I do not want all the BV crap on my main PC. Some solves it by putting BV in a Virtual Machine and start it on demand - others like me solve it by keeping it isolated on the bench PC and then VNC/RDC into the pc for control. The ONLY things that gets on my Main PC are things I use on the road - like SignalVu-PC and my compilers/IDE's.

And if things do not show up correct on a Microsoft Remote Desktop connection - the app is not Windows compatible and is using crap hacks to display whatever is missing. 

[plesa]

Question -> Is using a VNC on a PC to remote into the local PC using BenchVue a common use case or it is occasional ? Any reason for not just installing BenchVue on the remote PC and connecting directly to the instruments ( besides lag ).
Sid

Well, I use VNC all the time, because my electronics lab is in the basement and I don't want to run down there all the time just to see what's going on. VNC is a bit laggy of course , but as I don't exercise the programs, it this case does not matter much to me. Installing BV on the monitoring PCs (I have several) is not an option for me a) because BV is so bloated, b) because of licensing costs, c) for software maintenance reasons, d) because I want to keep the data in one place and e) because sometimes I want to view BV via a smart phone.

Incidentally just at this moment VNC again did not want to display the BV graph again. So for the moment I will have to give up on VNC displaying BV. By the way BV is the only program which does not like to work with VNC (or the other way round). All others except those using video overlays work fine albeit be bit slower.

What I would recommend you do with BV? I don't know.
Give up BV as it currently is completely and go back to the drawing board starting at square 1?
Invest in programming more and better Labview drivers and apps?
Go the open source route supporting/acquiring the Sigrok project (which currently is not mature enough yet), for example?

Yours Messtechniker

I was user BV, but when I needs not only logging from Agilent/Keysight instruments I realized that the available set of functions is limited.  Windows machine needs to run continuously. So I decided to pick up Raspberry and this triggers the RasPi Lognut. You can access it remotely, easy modification of test sequence, low power consumption and etc.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/metrology/raspberry-pi23-logging-platform-for-voltnuts/new/?topicseen#new
For displaying the data is used D3js and website which is also lightweight.

You can access it over VNC/ssh or directly the website with graph on your PC.
I also tried Labview, but the RPi3 with python and D3js ( soon C3) is the winner.

[Messtechniker]

Ready for the next question?
What on earth is BV trying to tell me
upon initially loading data from my KS 34465A?

Data Upload in Progress
((Progress bar remains grey))
Fetching Data..... -77706 of 100

Also see attachment.

Yours Messtechniker

[blackdog]

Hi,

I think Sid has a terrible headache after this week reading this eevblog BenchVue topic...

Kind regards,
Blackdog

[nctnico]

Hi,

I think Sid has a terrible headache after this week reading this eevblog BenchVue topic...

I think so too. The last pages don't instill much confidence in the actual usability of BenchVue. If it was free it may be OK (but just another typical crappy software package which comes with test equipment). I guess you just have to shell out money to buy the real deal.

[nfmax]

Every time a piece of software is used by somebody new, new bugs will appear. It seems to be a law of nature. The important thing is to have a clear channel of communication between the users and the developers (such as this forum), and the resources to fix the bugs and get the fixes into the hands of the user. Good developers welcome bug reports!

[Messtechniker]

Just for fun I cobbled together a small Profilab program
for logging the 34465As output. The enclosed graph shows the drift
of a 1 kHz 0 dB sine wave oscillator. The screen shots were taken via VNC
on the remote computer by the way. I have also included the Profilab "source code"
for anyone who has Profilab. Enjoy.
Sorry for the German text. My mistake. 
If there is any demand I will englishify the prog and make an exe of it. 

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

We do have some limited support in our mobile app but not a full fledged VNC replacement - www.keysight.com/find/benchvuemobile

Question -> Is using a VNC on a PC to remote into the local PC using BenchVue a common use case or it is occasional ? Any reason for not just installing BenchVue on the remote PC and connecting directly to the instruments ( besides lag ).
Sid

If there's a BenchVue app with identical functionality that can share control with an instance running on the test PC back at the lab, that could be a reasonable substitute.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Thanks. I just filed a defect for the team to recreate and debug this.

 By the way BV is the only program which does not like to work with VNC (or the other way round). All others except those using video overlays work fine albeit be bit slower.

Yours Messtechniker

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

If you can file a defect report to send us the logs that will really help. ( Chat icon in the upper right hand corner, "Report an Issue" ). I forwarded this defect to R&D
Sid

Ready for the next question?
What on earth is BV trying to tell me
upon initially loading data from my KS 34465A?

Data Upload in Progress
((Progress bar remains grey))
Fetching Data..... -77706 of 100

Also see attachment.

Yours Messtechniker

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

no comment   

Hi,

I think Sid has a terrible headache after this week reading this eevblog BenchVue topic...

Kind regards,
Blackdog

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Yes, very much so. Just want to point out that there are two ways to get in touch with us directly from the SW. The chat icon in the upper right corner provides two options
1. Send Feedback - this comes directly to me. You can include screenshots easily along with any feedback. Do reference either the EEVBlog or your email so I can get back to you.
2. Report an Issue - this compiles all the defect logs and emails it to us. Goes to our support manager who is very responsive to customer issues.

Thanks
Sid

The important thing is to have a clear channel of communication between the users and the developers (such as this forum), and the resources to fix the bugs and get the fixes into the hands of the user. Good developers welcome bug reports!

[LabSpokane]

Question -> Is using a VNC on a PC to remote into the local PC using BenchVue a common use case or it is occasional ? Any reason for not just installing BenchVue on the remote PC and connecting directly to the instruments ( besides lag ).
Sid

Sid,

I hate to tell you this, but BV is so resource intensive that it virtually requires a dedicated PC.  I use the BV app to view remotely, but I can fully understand the desire to use VNC to view on a dedicated PC. 

I realize that you're probably too far down the line to change development platforms, but .NET and the ginormous libraries you're now beholden to are a problem. 

[HighVoltage]

Sid,

I hate to tell you this, but BV is so resource intensive that it virtually requires a dedicated PC.   

That is what I do !
I have a Win 7 Lenovo Laptop that is designated only for BenchVue because otherwise the PC is so much limited.

And don't even try to have Keithley software running on the same laptop, it messes up the Keysight and Keithley libraries.
So, one PC just for BV seems to be the solution.
But not everyone can or will afford this.

[plesa]

Sid,

I hate to tell you this, but BV is so resource intensive that it virtually requires a dedicated PC.   

That is what I do !
I have a Win 7 Lenovo Laptop that is designated only for BenchVue because otherwise the PC is so much limited.

And don't even try to have Keithley software running on the same laptop, it messes up the Keysight and Keithley libraries.
So, one PC just for BV seems to be the solution.
But not everyone can or will afford this.

The dedicated PC is complication. For this purpose I like the Keithley TSB which allow you to make script running on instrument ( Lua ). But when it comes to real world usage for me was solution in RPi and Python with webserver and C3js.

The guys from BenchVue team are doing quite job, I did not see this kind of interactions from other instruments software developers 

[blackdog]

Hi plesa,

I like that KeySight is making this kind of control software.

But the path chosen by KeySight I think is not the right way.
The way of coding which KeySight used for BV, I'm getting pimples from...
And i find it unbelievable that there are so many software mistakes, these are not bugs but incompetent coding.
Why are the coders not playing with say a 3446xa DMM with a real technician next to hem to check the software before its pushd out...

And know think about how compact the software would be in the in a 3446xA DMM...
If you need a dedicated computer for BV, wat tells this about the road KeySight have chosen, in my opinion, it is not efficient coding...

Look for example how "PicoTech" does it.
Even if you buy a low cost product from them, you get the control software for free en de software is not colossal.
The software interface is simpel en efficient, no BV monky business, and yes it still can be better, and every update its better!

But like LabSpokane says, the are too far gone to change the way they are going now.

Kind regarts,
Blackdog

[Dubbie]

I think I'd rather write my own half baked tool in python than ever reward Keysight by paying for such poorly made software.

[diyaudio]

Question -> Is using a VNC on a PC to remote into the local PC using BenchVue a common use case or it is occasional ? Any reason for not just installing BenchVue on the remote PC and connecting directly to the instruments ( besides lag ).
Sid

Sid,

I hate to tell you this, but BV is so resource intensive that it virtually requires a dedicated PC.  I use the BV app to view remotely, but I can fully understand the desire to use VNC to view on a dedicated PC. 

I realize that you're probably too far down the line to change development platforms, but .NET and the ginormous libraries you're now beholden to are a problem.

BV uses WPF, WPF is slow on old PC's (I mean dog slow) if you using a PC with low memory or GPU resources its time to upgrade don't blame the software. I used WPF in the past, I know of its short comings as well as its strengths, WPF is the only rendering engine that understands how to scale on larger screens similar to that of vector graphics compared to stretching a png file. (this is very important when working in on large screens in the lab or the education environment) where the buttons/fonts have to scale correctly.

I have an old PC I use for misc stuff its running an windows 8.1 with old generation  i5 3.0GHz with 16GB with of memory,  BV is running fine.

[BenchVue Team]

Sid,

I hate to tell you this, but BV is so resource intensive that it virtually requires a dedicated PC.   

That is what I do !
I have a Win 7 Lenovo Laptop that is designated only for BenchVue because otherwise the PC is so much limited.

And don't even try to have Keithley software running on the same laptop, it messes up the Keysight and Keithley libraries.
So, one PC just for BV seems to be the solution.
But not everyone can or will afford this.

Fun with VISA...

You can have TekVISA (used with Keithley instruments) and Keysight VISA running on the same PC. Use Connection Expert's "VISA Conflict Manager" to select which VISA you want to enable. TekVISA, like R&S VISA, does not overwrite visa32.dll; it installs separately. NI in contrast, renames Keysight's visa32.dll to "Agilent Technologies - Keysight Technologies visa32.dll" and then puts its own in the Windows\SysWOW64\ folder. Connection Expert uses agvisa32.dll (Keysight's VISA), but BenchVue uses the active - "primary" - one, which can be one of the others. If they're not working right, that can be a source of angst for BenchVue. BTW, when removing NI VISA, the NI uninstaller does not restore the renamed Keysight VISA back to visa32.dll, which breaks any apps that use visa32.dll, such as BenchVue. You have to "Modify" Keysight VISA, making it primary, in that case.

Brian
BenchVue Support

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Messtechniker,
What PC configuration are you experiencing this issue on ? The team is trying to recreate it and so far haven't been able to ( still making way through various combinations )
Sid

Thanks. I just filed a defect for the team to recreate and debug this.

 By the way BV is the only program which does not like to work with VNC (or the other way round). All others except those using video overlays work fine albeit be bit slower.

Yours Messtechniker

[Messtechniker]

Hi Sid,

thanks for looking in to this.
I have sent a BV report via email to the support team.
Luckily today I could recreate the failed graph immediately
upon starting VNC for the first time to access BV remotely.

Both Ultra VNC 1.2.1.2 on the PC and RealVNC 3.1.0.025890 on a Samsung S4 do this.

Just found out:
Simply starting VNC hinders BV from displaying the graph. When exiting VNC the graph reappears on BV. It does not matter on which screen (main or secondary) BV is running.

For the benefit of others who might want to recreate the situation
here some data:

The situation:
Accessing via VNC the remote computer running BV stops displaying of the graph on the remote computer, resp. the graph is not displayed on the local computer running VNC. However, this does not always happen. In this case it happened immediately upon launching VNC for the first time.

Sometimes BV will continue to display the graph on the remote computer but VNC will not display the graph on the local computer running VNC.

In all cases data logging continues and is visible way of the measurement data (numbers) changing in the top section of the BV window.

Note: BV is running on the secondary screen. Next I will try the recreate the situation with BV running on the main screen.

The computer running BV (at a load of 70 to 85%)
With Profilab logging the load is only around 10%:

Operating System
Windows 7 Home Premium Service Pack 1 (build 7601)
Install Language: Deutsch (Deutschland)
System Locale: Deutsch (Deutschland)

Processor
3,40 gigahertz Intel Pentium 4
16 kilobyte primary memory cache
1024 kilobyte secondary memory cache
Hyper-threaded (2 total)

Motherboard
Board: Gigabyte Technology Co., Ltd. EP31-DS3L
Bus Clock: 200 megahertz
BIOS: Award Software International, Inc. FC 09/16/2008

Memory Modules
3328 Megabytes Usable Installed Memory

Slot 'A0' has 2048 MB
Slot 'A1' is Empty
Slot 'A2' has 2048 MB
Slot 'A3' is Empty

Display
AMD Radeon HD 5450 [Display adapter]
Mirage Driver [Display adapter]
Hanns.G HX191 [Monitor] (19,1"vis, s/n 830GR3NA07047, Juli 2008)
PnP-Monitor (Standard) (19,1"vis, April 2007)

Commumications
Realtek PCIe GBE Family Controller
Connection Speed:    1 Gbps

This computer is stable since when logging the KS 34465A data with Profilab for many hours on two days and bashing it pretty often with VNC the were no failures.

Hope this helps to improve BV

Yours Messtechniker

[HighVoltage]

Fun with VISA...

You can have TekVISA (used with Keithley instruments) and Keysight VISA running on the same PC. Use Connection Expert's "VISA Conflict Manager" to select which VISA you want to enable. TekVISA, like R&S VISA, does not overwrite visa32.dll; it installs separately. NI in contrast, renames Keysight's visa32.dll to "Agilent Technologies - Keysight Technologies visa32.dll" and then puts its own in the Windows\SysWOW64\ folder. Connection Expert uses agvisa32.dll (Keysight's VISA), but BenchVue uses the active - "primary" - one, which can be one of the others. If they're not working right, that can be a source of angst for BenchVue. BTW, when removing NI VISA, the NI uninstaller does not restore the renamed Keysight VISA back to visa32.dll, which breaks any apps that use visa32.dll, such as BenchVue. You have to "Modify" Keysight VISA, making it primary, in that case.

Brian
BenchVue Support

Hello Brian,
Thanks for the feedback, this is really good advise.

This is exactly what happened to me before.
BV was running perfectly, when I installed the software for the Keithley DMM7510.
After the installation of the TekVISA, neither the Keysight BV nor the Keithley Software was running alright.
I tried to reactivate the primary VISA ("Modify" Keysight VISA, making it primary) for the Keysight software but it did not work.
Even removing the i/o libraries and reinstalling did not work.
Luckily I had a full backup, restored everything and BV worked again.

- Now I have one laptop for all the Keysight software and it runs very stable and quick.
- And other laptop just for the TekVISA and Keithley / Tektronix / NI software and it also runs perfectly stable.

May be with your above instructions, I will try to have both VISA running on the same PC.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Thanks. Brian received it this morning and has the team looking into it. Thanks for all the detail as well !
Sid

Hi Sid,

thanks for looking in to this.
I have sent a BV report via email to the support team.

[Messtechniker]

Here we go again.
What's the idea behind the BV update failure shown in the enclosed pic?
(Windows firewall fully disabled, by the way).

Yours - Messtechniker

[HighVoltage]

Here we go again.
What's the idea behind the BV update failure shown in the enclosed pic?
(Windows firewall fully disabled, by the way).

Yours - Messtechniker

Do not update the main BV program through the updater, it really sucks and most of the time will not work.
At least I have not gotten it to work, even after hours of trying.
Best to completely remove BV and install it new from a separate download.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Team's looking at it. This should work ...
Sid

Here we go again.
What's the idea behind the BV update failure shown in the enclosed pic?
(Windows firewall fully disabled, by the way).

Yours - Messtechniker

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Messtechniker,
We've tried to duplicate your setup but are unable to reproduce this problem on our test machines.

Is anyone else facing this problem as well and if so, can you post your config ?

Thanks
Sid

Hi Sid,

thanks for looking in to this.
I have sent a BV report via email to the support team.
Luckily today I could recreate the failed graph immediately
upon starting VNC for the first time to access BV remotely.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Folks,
The team is looking to overhaul the BenchVue scope application in the next few months. Are there any scope users here that would be interested in working with us to provide us some feedback through our development ? The level of engagement would be whatever your'e comfortable with. Ideally folks would be using the application on their PCs and giving us feedback on their experience with the new features. If there are any takers please email us at benchvue.feedback@keysight.com.

On a related topic, are there folks here that need to talk to their DUTs as part of their  test process - or is most testing on passive devices ? I'd love to hear your feedback on what your needs are regarding controlling your DUTs when you make measurements.

Thanks
Sid

[HighVoltage]

If there are any takers please email us at benchvue.feedback@keysight.com.

Thanks
Sid

Email sent

[rx8pilot]

Hi Folks,
The team is looking to overhaul the BenchVue scope application in the next few months. Are there any scope users here that would be interested in working with us to provide us some feedback through our development ? The level of engagement would be whatever your'e comfortable with. Ideally folks would be using the application on their PCs and giving us feedback on their experience with the new features. If there are any takers please email us at benchvue.feedback@keysight.com.

On a related topic, are there folks here that need to talk to their DUTs as part of their  test process - or is most testing on passive devices ? I'd love to hear your feedback on what your needs are regarding controlling your DUTs when you make measurements.

Thanks
Sid

Yes, and yes.

I am swamped today, but will try to gather my thoughts over the weekend about DUT control.

[Karel]

The team is looking to overhaul the BenchVue scope application in the next few months. Are there any scope users here that would be interested in working with us to provide us some feedback through our development ? The level of engagement would be whatever your'e comfortable with. Ideally folks would be using the application on their PCs and giving us feedback on their experience with the new features. If there are any takers please email us at benchvue.feedback@keysight.com.

Are takers using Linux welcome as well?

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Perfect, Thanks. Looking forward to seeing it. If you can prioritize your needs as well that would really help. generally categories for features would be

"Absolutely need it - not worth using without it"
"Nice to have but it can wait"
"This would make life a lot easier"

Sid

Hi Folks,
The team is looking to overhaul the BenchVue scope application in the next few months. Are there any scope users here that would be interested in working with us to provide us some feedback through our development ? The level of engagement would be whatever your'e comfortable with. Ideally folks would be using the application on their PCs and giving us feedback on their experience with the new features. If there are any takers please email us at benchvue.feedback@keysight.com.

On a related topic, are there folks here that need to talk to their DUTs as part of their  test process - or is most testing on passive devices ? I'd love to hear your feedback on what your needs are regarding controlling your DUTs when you make measurements.

Thanks
Sid

Yes, and yes.

I am swamped today, but will try to gather my thoughts over the weekend about DUT control.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Karel,
Certainly ! We just won't have a Linux version available so getting hands on time for you would be tricky. But from a feedback perspective - definitely
Sid

The team is looking to overhaul the BenchVue scope application in the next few months. Are there any scope users here that would be interested in working with us to provide us some feedback through our development ? The level of engagement would be whatever your'e comfortable with. Ideally folks would be using the application on their PCs and giving us feedback on their experience with the new features. If there are any takers please email us at benchvue.feedback@keysight.com.

Are takers using Linux welcome as well?

[Blue_Alien]

I upgraded Benchvue today to find that I cannot use the oscilloscope app anymore without purchasing it. Now there is no way to capture scope shots on my PC over USB.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Blue_Alien
Sorry for the troubles with your BenchVue upgrade. You're right, when you upgrade from 3.7 to 2017 one has to pay for the applications to use it. We do still have the 3.7 version available on our website for download if you'd like it continue using it.
Sid

I upgraded Benchvue today to find that I cannot use the oscilloscope app anymore without purchasing it. Now there is no way to capture scope shots on my PC over USB.

[hendorog]

One complaint:
Does the Keysight license manager really need to show a notification (twice!) every time I plug a USB stick into my PC?
First to say it is scanning for licenses, and then again to say none were found.

How do I turn that off?

IMHO License management should not be in the users face - unless it breaks and they choose to troubleshoot it.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi hendorog,
Thanks for posting some feedback. I'm going to forward this to our Keysight License Manager team so they are aware that this is causing an issue with our customers. The goal was to make it really easy to apply a license file towards SW by plugging in a USB stick and hence saving time. The messages you see are a side effect of that process. I can certainly appreciate your point that none of this needs to be seen by the end user.
Sid

One complaint:
Does the Keysight license manager really need to show a notification (twice!) every time I plug a USB stick into my PC?
First to say it is scanning for licenses, and then again to say none were found.

How do I turn that off?

IMHO License management should not be in the users face - unless it breaks and they choose to troubleshoot it.

[vokars]

Hello BenchVue Team,

I bought the DMM-App a few days ago. In general I like the software. But there are some minor issues and a major one: Is there really no average/count/stdev or do I am just not able find it?

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi vokars,
We currently display min, max, average, count in our datalogger if you switch to Table View ( go to the Data Logger tab and select the Table icon in the top right corner ) ... We don't however currently display standard deviation. I will add this to our list of future enhancements.

Can I ask you to email us your minor issues as well as any other feedback to benchvue.feedback@keysight.com ( this will come directly to me ). We do plan to overhaul the DMM app and would like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks
Sid

Hello BenchVue Team,

I bought the DMM-App a few days ago. In general I like the software. But there are some minor issues and a major one: Is there really no average/count/stdev or do I am just not able find it?

[bitseeker]

I second the spirit of vokar's feedback. Have general statistics generally available, not limited to just the table view.

Regarding the License Manager popping up twice, I find that irritating as well, especially since I use my laptop for more than just running BenchVue. The vast majority of the time, I'm inserting a USB stick or SD card with no license files and then get those pop-ups. Restricting such notifications for when there's a problem with license files would be better.

[vokars]

Hi vokars,
We currently display min, max, average, count in our datalogger if you switch to Table View ( go to the Data Logger tab and select the Table icon in the top right corner ) ... We don't however currently display standard deviation. I will add this to our list of future enhancements.

Can I ask you to email us your minor issues as well as any other feedback to benchvue.feedback@keysight.com ( this will come directly to me ). We do plan to overhaul the DMM app and would like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks
Sid

Hello BenchVue Team,

I bought the DMM-App a few days ago. In general I like the software. But there are some minor issues and a major one: Is there really no average/count/stdev or do I am just not able find it?

Hello Sid,

Thank you very much ! The table view is probabely the only view I did not check  . Meanwhile I also implemented StDev in Test Flow. That is really handy. I always liked the possibility in WPF to stack widgets but I never knew a good application for that. In Test Flow this stacking makes sense.

I recommend, to include the StDev also into the statistics. With Test Flow it can be done but the data visualization of the data logger is better. 1. In science StDev is as important as the measurement value itself. I assume that these customers are interesting for Keysight. 2. The DMMs usually can show that in manual mode and my 34411a does so. 3. It is probabely implemented in less than 1h especially because you have access to the efficient implementation of the device firmwares. So you can be shure not to show a different value (there are several different definitions of StDev).

Concerning the minor issues I actually was looking for the right way to communicate it and I appreciate your offer to email. I will try to collect these issues first (e.g. sometimes connection problems, or sometimes no notification when the device is switched into local mode, ...) and verify that the issues are not a problem of the person in front of the screen  .

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi vokars,
Sorry for the delayed response. I usually get EEVBlog emails directly to my inbox but this one seems to have not made it.

Thanks for your feedback on Std Dev. I fully agree this is needed for anyone looking to statistically characterize a parameter. i.e. a mean without a Std-dev hides most of the information. We will definitely add this to our DMM update - thanks for pointing it out. Also glad to hear you're using Test Flow. Do send us feedback about it as well. We're adding some enhancements to Test Flow ( to be released in the near future ) that you'll hopefully find useful.

Regarding the other minor issues - I'll look forward to that as well

Sid

Hi vokars,
We currently display min, max, average, count in our datalogger if you switch to Table View ( go to the Data Logger tab and select the Table icon in the top right corner ) ... We don't however currently display standard deviation. I will add this to our list of future enhancements.

Can I ask you to email us your minor issues as well as any other feedback to benchvue.feedback@keysight.com ( this will come directly to me ). We do plan to overhaul the DMM app and would like to hear your thoughts.

Thanks
Sid

Hello BenchVue Team,

I bought the DMM-App a few days ago. In general I like the software. But there are some minor issues and a major one: Is there really no average/count/stdev or do I am just not able find it?

Hello Sid,

Thank you very much ! The table view is probabely the only view I did not check  . Meanwhile I also implemented StDev in Test Flow. That is really handy. I always liked the possibility in WPF to stack widgets but I never knew a good application for that. In Test Flow this stacking makes sense.

I recommend, to include the StDev also into the statistics. With Test Flow it can be done but the data visualization of the data logger is better. 1. In science StDev is as important as the measurement value itself. I assume that these customers are interesting for Keysight. 2. The DMMs usually can show that in manual mode and my 34411a does so. 3. It is probabely implemented in less than 1h especially because you have access to the efficient implementation of the device firmwares. So you can be shure not to show a different value (there are several different definitions of StDev).

Concerning the minor issues I actually was looking for the right way to communicate it and I appreciate your offer to email. I will try to collect these issues first (e.g. sometimes connection problems, or sometimes no notification when the device is switched into local mode, ...) and verify that the issues are not a problem of the person in front of the screen  .

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hit bitseeker,
Thanks for the feedback.

Regarding the licensing issues - yes I hear you. There was a similar comment from hendorog about scanning for USB Licenses. These posts resulted in us contacting our licensing teams and raising the issue. I will send them your feedback as well so they see it. Just want to let you know, we've heard your feedback and are acting on it.

Sid

I second the spirit of vokar's feedback. Have general statistics generally available, not limited to just the table view.

Regarding the License Manager popping up twice, I find that irritating as well, especially since I use my laptop for more than just running BenchVue. The vast majority of the time, I'm inserting a USB stick or SD card with no license files and then get those pop-ups. Restricting such notifications for when there's a problem with license files would be better.

[bitseeker]

Thanks for the update, Sid. I've generally found the various Keysight departments I've interacted with to be helpful and responsive to feedback and the BenchVue and licensing teams are no exception. Keep up the good work!

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hello folks,
We've provided your feedback regarding Keysight's USB license auto-scan and our licensing teams are looking at ways to improve it. In the interim, for anyone that wants to change its behavior, attached are two .reg files ( one for 32bit and one for 64bit windows ) that can be run with administrator privileges. This will disable our USB auto-scan. After running it you will see the following keys

On 64 bit windows:
DWORD registry key HKLM\SOFTWARE\Wow6432Node\Keysight\Licensing\DisableUsbScan  with a value of 1

On 32 bit windows:
DWORD registry key HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Keysight\Licensing\DisableUsbScan with a value of 1
 
Thanks,
Sid
benchvue.feedback@keysight.com

[bitseeker]

That worked great and didn't need a reboot. Thanks, Sid!

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

That worked great and didn't need a reboot. Thanks, Sid!

Great ! Glad it fixed your issue.
Sid

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi EEVBlog folks,

The BenchVue team is looking to make some enhancements to our user on-boarding process. i.e. the process by which a new user becomes familiar with all parts of BenchVue when they first download it - the app tab, the apps, test flow, data manager, demo mode, library etc. if anyone has input for us we would love to hear about it and your past experience getting acquainted with BenchVue. Feel free to add your thoughts here or send them to us @ benchvue.feedback@keysight.com
Thanks,
Sid

[blackdog]

Hi Sid,

How is de Interface of Benchvue goin?
Are our remarks already implemented, is there en new version on its way?

Kind regarts,
Bram

[bitseeker]

The BenchVue team is looking to make some enhancements to our user on-boarding process. i.e. the process by which a new user becomes familiar with all parts of BenchVue when they first download it - the app tab, the apps, test flow, data manager, demo mode, library etc.

Hi Sid,

From what I remember when I first used BenchVue, the on-boarding was difficult. Being greeted by the empty Bench and a message that nothing was detected along with the need to launch IO Libraries was not friendly. If the software already knows where I need to be, then it should take me there. The old software design mantra, "Don't make me click," applies.

I don't know about the latest BenchVue (I'm currently at 3.7), but having to find various disparate tools in order to accomplish tasks on the same instrument took some time to get your head around. For example, if I'm looking at the DMM app to set up some logging and decide I want to send some SCPI commands, I'd prefer to just hit a button in the DMM app to get a SCPI console rather than open IO Libraries in order to find the Connection Expert.

Once you figured out how to add and interact with instruments, it was also strange when sometimes devices would be detected automatically at the next startup, but other times you'd have to open the apps or the IO Libraries to get them to be recognized again. That might just be a bug.

Another issue that comes to mind is when using logging. After stopping a log (or it stops itself), if you change the setup, a modal dialog pops up to warn you that the log will be lost, but only when you've already partially changed a configuration value, rather than when clicking on the field. As a result, some values such as start/stop times are auto-zeroed when the interruption prevents you from entering a valid value.

Anyway, those are some things that come to mind.

[sarel.wagner]

I am a Time and Volts Nut, its a hobby thing. Soooo its dead for me, no way I am going to spend $$$ on your software. I do have a number of IEEE-488 devices however I am forced to use not your software . That sucks. I do have some HP and Agilent/Keysight gear.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Bram,
Thanks for checking in. Yes there is a new version we will be releasing soon. A number of your comments around charts, graphs etc have been implemented for our scope app which is getting an overhaul. I realize your comments were more targeted towards DMM app which we do plan to update soon as well.
Sid

Hi Sid,

How is de Interface of Benchvue goin?
Are our remarks already implemented, is there en new version on its way?

Kind regarts,
Bram

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Bitseeker,
Thanks for the feedback - just the type of input we are looking for. Looks like you've experienced a mix of connectivity issues along with general lack of instruction when first using BenchVue.  The datalogger issues might be a bug with the particular app - do you recall which instrument that was for ?

Would you be interested in talking to our usability engineer about the onboarding process ? If so, can you send me an email at Benchvue.feedback@keysight.com ? It would just be one or two 30 min interviews at times convenient for you with BenchVue running over a web meeting.

Thanks,
Sid

The BenchVue team is looking to make some enhancements to our user on-boarding process. i.e. the process by which a new user becomes familiar with all parts of BenchVue when they first download it - the app tab, the apps, test flow, data manager, demo mode, library etc.

Hi Sid,

From what I remember when I first used BenchVue, the on-boarding was difficult. Being greeted by the empty Bench and a message that nothing was detected along with the need to launch IO Libraries was not friendly. If the software already knows where I need to be, then it should take me there. The old software design mantra, "Don't make me click," applies.

I don't know about the latest BenchVue (I'm currently at 3.7), but having to find various disparate tools in order to accomplish tasks on the same instrument took some time to get your head around. For example, if I'm looking at the DMM app to set up some logging and decide I want to send some SCPI commands, I'd prefer to just hit a button in the DMM app to get a SCPI console rather than open IO Libraries in order to find the Connection Expert.

Once you figured out how to add and interact with instruments, it was also strange when sometimes devices would be detected automatically at the next startup, but other times you'd have to open the apps or the IO Libraries to get them to be recognized again. That might just be a bug.

Another issue that comes to mind is when using logging. After stopping a log (or it stops itself), if you change the setup, a modal dialog pops up to warn you that the log will be lost, but only when you've already partially changed a configuration value, rather than when clicking on the field. As a result, some values such as start/stop times are auto-zeroed when the interruption prevents you from entering a valid value.

Anyway, those are some things that come to mind.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Sarel
Understood about not purchasing our software. However, if you do have any general feedback we would be very interested to hear it as always.
Sid

I am a Time and Volts Nut, its a hobby thing. Soooo its dead for me, no way I am going to spend $$$ on your software. I do have a number of IEEE-488 devices however I am forced to use not your software . That sucks. I do have some HP and Agilent/Keysight gear.

[sarel.wagner]

  hahaha Sid, you funny..... Send me a copy and I will review and comment, DMM and Counter would be nice. Can do some ADEV. How do I feedback when I cannot afford to buy the Software?

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Sarel,
I did walk right into that one, didn't I ?

I should have mentioned that we do have 30-day free trials for all our applications. You would need to download the BenchVue Platform ( available at keysight.com/find/BenchVue ) and then any of our applications can be downloaded from the Apps tab within BenchVue. If you don't have any Keysight software on your PC, we do need to install a few other components such as Connection Expert ( our VISA library ), a license manager and a few other prerequisites.

You can confirm whether your existing instruments are supported in BenchVue @ www.keysight.com/find/benchvueinstruments.

Sid

hahaha Sid, you funny..... Send me a copy and I will review and comment, DMM and Counter would be nice. Can do some ADEV. How do I feedback when I cannot afford to buy the Software?

[bitseeker]

Thanks for the feedback - just the type of input we are looking for. Looks like you've experienced a mix of connectivity issues along with general lack of instruction when first using BenchVue.  The datalogger issues might be a bug with the particular app - do you recall which instrument that was for ?

The data logger issues were with the DMM app on 34401A and 34410A, both connected via GPIB.

Would you be interested in talking to our usability engineer about the onboarding process ? If so, can you send me an email at Benchvue.feedback@keysight.com ? It would just be one or two 30 min interviews at times convenient for you with BenchVue running over a web meeting.

Sure. I'll shoot you an email.

[coldframe]

Hi Sid,

Do you have any plan for 33120A  AWB?

[sarel.wagner]

Hi Sid, yes you did. No thank you to 30 day trials. What is the point, you think our time as hobbyists are free to use? Then when the 30 days are gone, that is if I can learn this behemoth in that time, I will need to clean it out of windows, yea right!

If Keysight is not prepared to consider a free version, or at least give some to hobbyists for free, you can keep it. The open source model works for a reason. Lots of software companies have made certain of their products available for free, even your competitors does that.

Hi Sarel,
I did walk right into that one, didn't I ?

I should have mentioned that we do have 30-day free trials for all our applications. You would need to download the BenchVue Platform ( available at keysight.com/find/BenchVue ) and then any of our applications can be downloaded from the Apps tab within BenchVue. If you don't have any Keysight software on your PC, we do need to install a few other components such as Connection Expert ( our VISA library ), a license manager and a few other prerequisites.

You can confirm whether your existing instruments are supported in BenchVue @ www.keysight.com/find/benchvueinstruments.

Sid

hahaha Sid, you funny..... Send me a copy and I will review and comment, DMM and Counter would be nice. Can do some ADEV. How do I feedback when I cannot afford to buy the Software?

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Sarel,
All fair points. We certainly wouldn't presume anyone's time to be free - just wanted to let you know we value feedback whether you're our customer or not.

We have discussed the idea of a hobbyist program for BenchVue. If you've got recommendations based on how you've seen it managed well with other companies, I would really like to hear more. It's no secret that you guys have valuable feedback for product teams.

Sid

Hi Sid, yes you did. No thank you to 30 day trials. What is the point, you think our time as hobbyists are free to use? Then when the 30 days are gone, that is if I can learn this behemoth in that time, I will need to clean it out of windows, yea right!

If Keysight is not prepared to consider a free version, or at least give some to hobbyists for free, you can keep it. The open source model works for a reason. Lots of software companies have made certain of their products available for free, even your competitors does that.

Hi Sarel,
I did walk right into that one, didn't I ?

I should have mentioned that we do have 30-day free trials for all our applications. You would need to download the BenchVue Platform ( available at keysight.com/find/BenchVue ) and then any of our applications can be downloaded from the Apps tab within BenchVue. If you don't have any Keysight software on your PC, we do need to install a few other components such as Connection Expert ( our VISA library ), a license manager and a few other prerequisites.

You can confirm whether your existing instruments are supported in BenchVue @ www.keysight.com/find/benchvueinstruments.

Sid

hahaha Sid, you funny..... Send me a copy and I will review and comment, DMM and Counter would be nice. Can do some ADEV. How do I feedback when I cannot afford to buy the Software?

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi coldframe,
We do receive requests for the 33120 from time to time. Right now we don't have plans to add support in the next year but we do keep reevaluating every few months based on feedback we receive.
Sid

Hi Sid,

Do you have any plan for 33120A  AWB?

[sarel.wagner]

Sid, just look at what CAD companies have done, no no lease ware crapware, the other stuff. Some made all products freely available for Education, and have some free products available too. Not crippled products or 30 day eval crap, proper products alongside those where they sell same to business users.

Look at Linux, Arduino and the open source community. And no you do not have to give away your source code. You sell and we happily buy your electronic products. You have IEEE 488 and now we have USB and LAN with LXi. All these are standard. If you would consider publishing API to Benchvue framework, the community can code and publish new control and automation apps. You provide the framework already and its free.

The community, (and your paying clients) can then do the things THEY want and desire. A lot smarter than doing what your budget and resources allow. You and your clients get these apps for free. A better Benchvue for all. Nothing stops Benchvue from now controlling other devices from other vendors and  manufacturers, giving us all a better future.

[daveyk]

Hi guys. Question about Benchview:
If it controls a 33250a generator, is it not real expensive? I’ve looked at it in the past at work and it seems every module was at least a $1000.00. I’m looking at creating some simple arbitrary waveforms on a 33250a more or less as a hobbiest and trying to figure out how to do so.

From what I can tell on your website Intuilink does not require a license but a download is no longer possible?

I love the idea of a completely computerized workbench which is what I think Benchview can supply, I just can’t pay for it and am only looking for control of this one generator (thru GPIB).

Educate me a bit on what my possibilities are please? Maybe there is an affordable module for Benchview to handle this?

Thanks kindly,

Dave


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi daveyk,
The BenchVue Function Generator application runs from about $90 to $340 depending on the type of license you want. This will also include a license for our Waveform Builder PRO SW which usually sells for $780. If you're looking to purchase, you're better of with the BenchVue app ( www.keysight.com/find/benchvuefg) as you get both software for a much  lower price.

Another option would be to use our Command Expert SW available for no cost to program SCPI commands to the instrument.

Sid

Hi guys. Question about Benchview:
If it controls a 33250a generator, is it not real expensive? I’ve looked at it in the past at work and it seems every module was at least a $1000.00. I’m looking at creating some simple arbitrary waveforms on a 33250a more or less as a hobbiest and trying to figure out how to do so.

From what I can tell on your website Intuilink does not require a license but a download is no longer possible?

I love the idea of a completely computerized workbench which is what I think Benchview can supply, I just can’t pay for it and am only looking for control of this one generator (thru GPIB).

Educate me a bit on what my possibilities are please? Maybe there is an affordable module for Benchview to handle this?

Thanks kindly,

Dave


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi sarel,
Thanks for your thoughts. Regarding the quoted comment, this is something we have seriously entertained. We do have a software development kit for Benchvue that would allow others to develop their own applications within the framework and utilize all its capabilities. Other teams within our company use this SDK. We decided to not launch externally given it does require a decent amount of programming investment ( as does any application development ). If you or others are interested in learning more please contact me at benchvue.feedback@keysight.com. It would be very interesting to have a dialog around it as we often discuss it internally.

Thank you
Sid

If you would consider publishing API to Benchvue framework, the community can code and publish new control and automation apps. You provide the framework already and its free.

The community, (and your paying clients) can then do the things THEY want and desire. A lot smarter than doing what your budget and resources allow. You and your clients get these apps for free. A better Benchvue for all. Nothing stops Benchvue from now controlling other devices from other vendors and  manufacturers, giving us all a better future.

[sarel.wagner]

If you not aware of this guy: http://toolguyd.com/keysight-benchvue-is-a-great-example-of-an-unfavorable-approach-to-hardware-supporting-software/ Massive following...,

[Astrodev]

I have been pointed over to this thread after venting some of my comments on the John Kenny interview thread as to why the decisions over the future of BV seems to be at odds with both the direction it was indicated that Keysight was going in as well as being against the general trend in the industry to provide base functionality S/W for the operation of modern instruments free of charge.

This approach has been seen as a way to leverage customers into buying into a specific manufacturers instruments (in the way I am sure BenchVue was originally conceived to do). But in my case the change of licencing in V2017 has had the opposite effect our decision has been to cancel all planed purchases of Keysight instruments in favour of alternatives from other manufacturers as there is now no advantage if consolidating on a specific manufacturer.

Unfortunately changes in how S/W tools are provided in the way the change in BV was implemented can have quite a destabilising  effect on procurement decisions as it starts uncertainty as to what the next change may be and long term decisions can't be made without taking these into account, I suspect that there are others who have made the same decision as well.

[D3f1ant]

Yep, what ^^^ said. We haven't purchased any keysight gear since they started charging for BV.
Still using the old free version tho, but the naggy licence server popup everytime a USB  drive is inserted is a problem. Wouldn't know of that still a factor with the latest version but it's REALLY annoying.

[Kean]

I don't want to heap on with all the others, but yeah I'm also rather put off buying any new Keysight gear based on the policy change with BenchVue licensing.  When it was free (but limited), it was still a significant factor in my purchase of a 34465A.  Being only a small business I'm not a big spender on test gear, but that is why value for money (and saving time) is so important.

Still using the old free version tho, but the naggy licence server popup everytime a USB  drive is inserted is a problem. Wouldn't know of that still a factor with the latest version but it's REALLY annoying.

See the instructions Sid provided in this earlier post to disable that wonderful feature!
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/t57461/msg1307157/#msg1307157

[Mjolinor]

I bought a 33120A new in maybe 1997 or so. That came with a version of BenchView on two floppies but it came with free upgrades for life if I remember correctly. I actually updated it in perhaps 2007 by getting in touch and there were no questions asked, I just got a new copy which I have now lost.

Am I remembering this correctly? Age does make one doubt such things particularly as the company has had so many names since then.
I am not even sure it was the 33120A I got it with but I don't remember using it with the 8591As I bought or the NVA.

[Astrodev]

The real worry with this type of change is that as instruments have their own apps on them at what point will the change result in having to purchase updates for the S/W on the actual instrument.

Oh hang on they have already done this with some instruments, I have an E5515C that is unusable due to the lack of being able to get hold of the firmware without having to pay for a new updated license and due to the version I was eventually advised to use with the instrument, it is now essentially bricked as there was a problem with the upload of the firmware.

It is because of all this that I have become sceptical over "U turn" changes in the future particularly as most T&M purchases are long term investments.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi sarel,
Thanks for sharing Stuart's link. Yes, we are aware of it and had the opportunity to further discuss BenchVue and the change with him.
Sid

If you not aware of this guy: http://toolguyd.com/keysight-benchvue-is-a-great-example-of-an-unfavorable-approach-to-hardware-supporting-software/ Massive following...,

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Astrodev,
Sorry about all the upgrade troubles. The E5515C is a little outside my expertise but if you could contact us at benchvue.feedback@keysight.com we can direct you to the right folks at Keysight to help you ( Unless you've already gone that route  )
Sid

The real worry with this type of change is that as instruments have their own apps on them at what point will the change result in having to purchase updates for the S/W on the actual instrument.

Oh hang on they have already done this with some instruments, I have an E5515C that is unusable due to the lack of being able to get hold of the firmware without having to pay for a new updated license and due to the version I was eventually advised to use with the instrument, it is now essentially bricked as there was a problem with the upload of the firmware.

It is because of all this that I have become sceptical over "U turn" changes in the future particularly as most T&M purchases are long term investments.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Mjolinor,
Do you perhaps mean Waveform Builder PRO ( keysight.com/find/33503A ) ? BenchVue was only released a few years ago and hence unlikely what you previously used ... We also had older software called Intuilink which has now been discontinued.
Sid

I bought a 33120A new in maybe 1997 or so. That came with a version of BenchView on two floppies but it came with free upgrades for life if I remember correctly. I actually updated it in perhaps 2007 by getting in touch and there were no questions asked, I just got a new copy which I have now lost.

Am I remembering this correctly? Age does make one doubt such things particularly as the company has had so many names since then.
I am not even sure it was the 33120A I got it with but I don't remember using it with the 8591As I bought or the NVA.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Kean,
Thanks for voicing your concerns - I certainly understand your position. We are evaluating all the requests for some free software offering with instruments. I'm hoping we can change your view in the future.

Sid

I don't want to heap on with all the others, but yeah I'm also rather put off buying any new Keysight gear based on the policy change with BenchVue licensing.  When it was free (but limited), it was still a significant factor in my purchase of a 34465A.  Being only a small business I'm not a big spender on test gear, but that is why value for money (and saving time) is so important.

Still using the old free version tho, but the naggy licence server popup everytime a USB  drive is inserted is a problem. Wouldn't know of that still a factor with the latest version but it's REALLY annoying.

See the instructions Sid provided in this earlier post to disable that wonderful feature!
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/t57461/msg1307157/#msg1307157

[plesa]

If you not aware of this guy: http://toolguyd.com/keysight-benchvue-is-a-great-example-of-an-unfavorable-approach-to-hardware-supporting-software/ Massive following...,

And after using old version which is free you will end up with your own scripts in Python to collect data or control instruments

[bitseeker]

Yes, rolling your own with something like Python and PyVISA is a good way to go. I will likely do that in order to get unified control over my heterogeneous array of test equipment across Ethernet, USB, and GPIB interfaces.

However, for those who don't have the skills or can't spend the time to make their own solution, it would be beneficial to have BenchVue return to providing basic desktop functionality as an included feature of HP/Agilent/Keysight hardware. Competitive products include such software, with varying levels of functionality, at no additional cost. BenchVue should be there, too. Even at the level of free features in version 3.7 (where I'm at, currently), it would be compelling as a result of the integrated virtual bench.

Adding generic apps (e.g., generic DMM, generic power supply, generic AWG) that could be customized with SCPI commands, raw strings, or scripts (embed Python?) to support older HP and Agilent equipment as well as non-Keysight devices would enable BenchVue to be the command central on the bench to handle basic control, automation, and logging.

I don't want to heap on with all the others, but yeah I'm also rather put off buying any new Keysight gear based on the policy change with BenchVue licensing.

It's good to post your feedback and experiences so that the BenchVue team sees how important these things are to the community.

[plesa]

Yes, rolling your own with something like Python and PyVISA is a good way to go. I will likely do that in order to get unified control over my heterogeneous array of test equipment across Ethernet, USB, and GPIB interfaces.

However, for those who don't have the skills or can't spend the time to make their own solution, it would be beneficial to have BenchVue return to providing basic desktop functionality as an included feature of HP/Agilent/Keysight hardware. Competitive products include such software, with varying levels of functionality, at no additional cost. BenchVue should be there, too. Even at the level of free features in version 3.7 (where I'm at, currently), it would be compelling as a result of the integrated virtual bench.

If you do not have skills the Command expert is way to go. It is free and it contains set of commands for Agilent/Keysigh instruments. By using this app you will familiarize with set of commands which you can use in Python later.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Just a general question for the community -  What free SW from other instrument vendors do you like or have you liked in the past ( besides HP/Agilent ) ?

[Someone]

To balance the dislike of the loss of free features in the software, the step to a perpetual license option was an important improvement. Previously it was the limited free option or annual licensing, more for free is always welcome but when I buy software for production it needs to be perpetual licence and not something that could stop working when the vendor decides to change the version or stop supporting it.

[HighVoltage]

Just a general question for the community -  What free SW from other instrument vendors do you like or have you liked in the past ( besides HP/Agilent ) ?

Hello Sid

I am using the Keithley KickStart software, which is free in the basic version and works for me with the 2450/2460 SMU and 7510 DMM
Also free for me was:
- BK-Precision, DC Load software
- Maynuo, DC Load software

I think people here on eevblog have a valid point, complaining about the BV licensing.
For many years, Keysight has released lots of videos on YouTube, pointing out the free BenchVue software.

Before BenchVue, it was very complicated for most people to get any data or even a screenshot from an instrument.
LXI also did not work most of the time, until one spent hours in configuring JAVA (So stupid).

With BenchVue, this has become almost child's play and suddenly Keysight was the only major manufacturer
of test equipment, that offered a simple way to connect the PC with the lab gear.

By offering a free (but limited) version, you opened the door to many newcomers, to play with instruments and software.
This door was closed with the new licensing system.

I think, the people/companies who can afford a full license, will buy it anyways.
And those who start with a free license, will eventually or possibly also buy a full license.
But I have a hard time to believe, that you will loose any sales of a full license, because you are offering a free but limited license.
On the other hand, Keysight will most likely sell many more hardware instruments with a free BV software to get the user started and "hooked".

It might be time to re-think the BenchVue strategy.

[lundmar]

Before BenchVue, it was very complicated for most people to get any data or even a screenshot from an instrument.
LXI also did not work most of the time, until one spent hours in configuring JAVA (So stupid).

In case you are looking for an extremely lean, no-fancy-UI, and truly free linux tool to grab screenshots from your LXI instruments you can take a look at this little open source project that I'm currently polishing off: https://lxi-tools.github.io

lxi-tools include a tool that can discover LXI instruments, send SCPI commands, and easily grab screenshots from supported instruments.

No need to download hundreds or thousands of megabytes

P.s. The current list of supported instrument models for the screenshot feature is short but more will be added soon. I'm looking for testers and feedback.
P.p.s: Both lxi-tools and liblxi will be available in Fedora/RHEL, Debian/Ubuntu in the near future.

[sarel.wagner]

Hi Sid,

There is sigrok. If Benchvue is payware, why dont you use the API from sigrok and support that effort. It is free and you cabn add generic and specific support. It is free.

Secondly sigrok already supports a number of older HP, Afilent and some newer equipment.

Just a general question for the community -  What free SW from other instrument vendors do you like or have you liked in the past ( besides HP/Agilent ) ?

[sibeen]

I downloaded Benchvue freeversion as the links were given a page or so back. So I've got version 3.5 and the oscilloscope module installed.

I've connected to my DSOX3024T and the connection was just seamless. But, when I'm in instrument settings and trace preview is set then the cro is going through a Run/Stop cycles every second or so and the screen refreshes on the scope (the run/stop button of the cro flashes green/red as it cycles). Is this the normal mode of operation? If I set the mode to 'screen' under the instrument settings the run/stop cycling ceases.

Also, I was hoping that there would be some way to draw an arbitrary waveform for the waveform generator. Is this available in the newer paid for version?

[Astrodev]

Sorry for some reason this post ended up in the wrong thread, it was supposed to be here.

As I mentioned in an earlier post the major problem with BenchVue at the moment is the U turn on licensing which has had the impact of pushing users away from it and indirectly away form Keysight particularly the basic bench instruments, as it is now more cost effective to use lower cost instruments from other manufacturers to offset the addition cost of using third party software that supports a larger manufacturer base.

At the present BenchVue was a good idea but because of the new licensing model it has mean't we have had to drop it and also move away from Keysight as the preferred choice unless there are compelling advantages from the instruments on offer.

I still think they were onto a winner as the BenchVue software did provide a solution to the working interface that non of the other manufacturers had addressed, up to the point they shot themselves in the foot by making it all licenced, particularly as we had to update the version on all our Win 10 PC's after a problem with the IO libraries due to a Windows update which then resulted in a total inability to use BenchVue any more.

Good one Keysight!

[HighVoltage]

I've connected to my DSOX3024T and the connection was just seamless. But, when I'm in instrument settings and trace preview is set then the cro is going through a Run/Stop cycles every second or so and the screen refreshes on the scope (the run/stop button of the cro flashes green/red as it cycles). Is this the normal mode of operation? If I set the mode to 'screen' under the instrument settings the run/stop cycling ceases.

Yes, this is normal and partially very annoying.
But may be there is no way around this.

I noticed that this seems to be slow on the 2000X or 3000X series scopes but much much faster on the 6000X series scopes.

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi sibeen,
The ARB is still not supported in the newer version of the scopes app. Regarding, the stop-start, yes this is an artifact of pulling data from the scope while the scope is displaying. We're in the middle of working around this but there are PROS and CONS to each approach. ( i.e. trading off performance when removing the start-stop cycles )
Sid

I've connected to my DSOX3024T and the connection was just seamless. But, when I'm in instrument settings and trace preview is set then the cro is going through a Run/Stop cycles every second or so and the screen refreshes on the scope (the run/stop button of the cro flashes green/red as it cycles). Is this the normal mode of operation? If I set the mode to 'screen' under the instrument settings the run/stop cycling ceases.

Also, I was hoping that there would be some way to draw an arbitrary waveform for the waveform generator. Is this available in the newer paid for version?

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Thanks for pointing me to it sarel. Added it to my list to investigate interfacing outside of BenchVue
Sid

Hi Sid,

There is sigrok. If Benchvue is payware, why dont you use the API from sigrok and support that effort. It is free and you cabn add generic and specific support. It is free.

Secondly sigrok already supports a number of older HP, Afilent and some newer equipment.

Just a general question for the community -  What free SW from other instrument vendors do you like or have you liked in the past ( besides HP/Agilent ) ?

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Astrodev,
The current free version will still work on Win10. Are you having issues getting it to run ? contact me at benchvue.feedback@keysight.com so we can take a look and get you back up and running
Sid

we had to update the version on all our Win 10 PC's after a problem with the IO libraries due to a Windows update which then resulted in a total inability to use BenchVue any more.

Good one Keysight!

[kaz911]

Hi Sid,

just installed the Dec "2018" version - it seems slightly better in license manager memory - but I'll do a compare later.

But..

I can't install the new Beta Serial Control Com port Module? Just tells me I need an internet connection to download. BV is connected and is not blocked by FW. (plus it "updated" itself - so there should be some kind of connection)

[sarel.wagner]

Hi Sid,

You gone all quiet on us here, any news about the state of Benchvue? Any updates on what is changing, or was this all in vain?

Regards

Hi Sid,

There is sigrok. If Benchvue is payware, why dont you use the API from sigrok and support that effort. It is free and you cabn add generic and specific support. It is free.

Secondly sigrok already supports a number of older HP, Afilent and some newer equipment.

Just a general question for the community -  What free SW from other instrument vendors do you like or have you liked in the past ( besides HP/Agilent ) ?

[Sid.BenchVueTeam]

Hi Sarel,
Not at all in vain - the team has been busy working on BenchVue enhancements. We just released 2018 that includes a number of enhancements to Test Flow ( a Run a Script block, Ask user block, ability to group blocks, add comments, SCPI block enhancements for non-keysight instruments), a new Beta Serial Control Application to control RS232 serial devices and automate in Test Flow. We're also launching a new scope application with a number of enhancements such as - Faster trace updates, full remote UI for LAN interfaces, Lots of charting updates, many more measurements, more trigger support, triggered data logging, waveform logging, WaveGen test flow support, segment waveform logging, support for measurement statistics and Z/V series scope support.

We have more charting updates to do that a number of folks on the forum requested. These will follow in the release of our next application.

Your request for an API into other solutions is still being looked at. We are however looking at some offerings that will allow you to integrate non-Keysight instrumentation easily into BenchVue ( outside of the SCPI and Command expert integration )

Thanks
Sid

Hi Sid,

You gone all quiet on us here, any news about the state of Benchvue? Any updates on what is changing, or was this all in vain?

Regards

[Messtechniker]

Benchvue has been updated to: 2018 Update 1 | 2018-04-27.

Even so, I won't be using it for the reasons given in this thread.

[mairo]

Hi BenchVueTeam,
What is the reason for 34980A DAQ system not being available in BenchVue, the smaller DAQ systems are? I know it has its own software, but are there any plans in enabling it in BenchVue?