BenchVue 3.0 now available – ask the BenchVue team anything

[BenchVue Team]

At the end of the day, from what I see I'm sure that Keysight could sell a lot more 'Pro' modules if the price was closer to $300 to $400 than the $700+ as it is now.

Also, don't forget that the availability of a decently priced test software can be a great marketing tool.

Wuerstchenhund, I know that Jeff addressed this but I wanted to chime in too on the pricing subject since price ranges were mentioned for the Pro versions of the apps.

The Pro upgrades for the DMM and Power supply apps are $200 and $150. Other Pro upgrade licenses range up to $500, with an exception for the Function Generator Pro license which is up there at $750. I'm not saying that these prices are better than the free value that the base apps provide, but not all are up in the $700 range.

~David

[LaurentR]

One thing I'd like to see in BV is synchronized acquisition/display of multiple instruments (DMMs in my case), i.e.  having the same time base / x axis and two curves on the y axis instead of having different fully independent windows.

Although you can't get one graph in BenchVue, you can now synchronize multiple DMMs by using the vastly improved Digitizer option in the DMM Pro app. Using external trigger, it is easy to set up multiple DMMs to capture various signals at the exact same time. Use "Export All" to put exported data from all DMMs into a single Excel spreadsheet, one DMM per tab. Each DMM will have the same timestamps, all relative to 0 instead of time of day as before. This makes it easy to cut and paste the data columns from all tabs into one, then use Excel's standard charting feature to get them all on one graph. I've made a video showing how to do this, available on Dropbox at:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/232v7ecojkyntne/two_dmm_digi.mp4?dl=0

And by the way, the video shows how to use multiple external triggers and 1 Sample/trigger, so that two completely different DMMs with different internal sample rates can be synchronized. This requires another instrument to generate the triggers. I used a 33521 as a pulse generator for this. If precise timing is not required, you can instead use the VM Complete output out of one to trigger the other, making the data for the 2nd DMM off by one measurement period. If you have two identical DMMs, such as two 34465As, you can use a single external trigger and then change the sample count (and sample interval) to gather the data. The sample subsystem can be run faster than the trigger subsystem, but both modes are now available to you.

Brian

Another alternative solution might be of interest to those reading this thread as well. Using the Test Flow app, you can easily have two DMM readings one after another. While this isn't truly time synchronized (the readings will be offset by the time it takes the first DMM to take a reading) it might be a solution for those who are not as sensitive to time.

In the attached image I created a simple sequence that sweeps a function generator output from 1Vpp to 5Vpp (so a loop is created for 5 measurements). You can see the sequence on the left hand side of the image. I then placed two DMM readings inside of the loop.

On the right hand side, we now see a visual representation of the data and sweep. The line colors on the graph match the block colors in the sequence. You can see that this is all on the same X axis. The Y axis is variable depending on the graph so we do not show Y axis values unless you mouse over the points. The table below the graph shows the data points with a gross timestamp. Both the graph or table data can be exported.

Time it took to create this? About 60 seconds.

~David

That is pretty cool. I need to look at that Test Flow app. I have done things like this on occasion, but usually putting together a couple hundred lines of MatLab...

Laurent

[georges80]

At the end of the day, from what I see I'm sure that Keysight could sell a lot more 'Pro' modules if the price was closer to $300 to $400 than the $700+ as it is now.

Also, don't forget that the availability of a decently priced test software can be a great marketing tool.

Wuerstchenhund, I know that Jeff addressed this but I wanted to chime in too on the pricing subject since price ranges were mentioned for the Pro versions of the apps.

The Pro upgrades for the DMM and Power supply apps are $200 and $150. Other Pro upgrade licenses range up to $500, with an exception for the Function Generator Pro license which is up there at $750. I'm not saying that these prices are better than the free value that the base apps provide, but not all are up in the $700 range.

~David

Since I mentioned the high cost of the benchlink waveform PRO software, why is it so expensive? I have a 33250A and it would be nice to easily create ARB waveforms for some of my test cases, but the trial mode is very brain dead. I can't justify $750+ to enable a few more editing features that would make the application useful. I'm sure there are a whole suite of wonderful things the PRO paid version provides, but what I need is just an easy way to create ARB waveforms without spending a ton of money beyond what a 33250A already cost.

The trial version essentially makes the benchlink waveform program useless for any real work and I'm left creating various pulse waveforms on the front panel of the function generator.

I could see charging a fee to enable all the automation features, since those are typically what a larger company needs to automate various tests, but for us small guys it would be real nice to enable all the waveform features so creating/downloading ARB waveforms is easy.

cheers,
george.

[BenchVue Team]

At the end of the day, from what I see I'm sure that Keysight could sell a lot more 'Pro' modules if the price was closer to $300 to $400 than the $700+ as it is now.

Also, don't forget that the availability of a decently priced test software can be a great marketing tool.

Wuerstchenhund, I know that Jeff addressed this but I wanted to chime in too on the pricing subject since price ranges were mentioned for the Pro versions of the apps.

The Pro upgrades for the DMM and Power supply apps are $200 and $150. Other Pro upgrade licenses range up to $500, with an exception for the Function Generator Pro license which is up there at $750. I'm not saying that these prices are better than the free value that the base apps provide, but not all are up in the $700 range.

~David

Since I mentioned the high cost of the benchlink waveform PRO software, why is it so expensive? I have a 33250A and it would be nice to easily create ARB waveforms for some of my test cases, but the trial mode is very brain dead. I can't justify $750+ to enable a few more editing features that would make the application useful. I'm sure there are a whole suite of wonderful things the PRO paid version provides, but what I need is just an easy way to create ARB waveforms without spending a ton of money beyond what a 33250A already cost.

The trial version essentially makes the benchlink waveform program useless for any real work and I'm left creating various pulse waveforms on the front panel of the function generator.

I could see charging a fee to enable all the automation features, since those are typically what a larger company needs to automate various tests, but for us small guys it would be real nice to enable all the waveform features so creating/downloading ARB waveforms is easy.

cheers,
george.

Thank you George for coming back to this subject. I was following up with some colleagues before replying. While there are no plans to change the pricing of the Function Generator Pro/Waveform builder, I do have a solution that might be of use to you and others reading this thread.

Command Expert (CE) is another no cost software product from Keysight. At it's heart it helps with easy programming of SCPI commands to instruments. There are also plug-ins that you can use to integrate CE into programs like Excel. With the Excel plug-in you can create your arb in the Excel cells and use CE to upload your arb into your 33250A. By using the powerful Excel equation tools you can generate your own custom arbs for upload.
www.keysight.com/find/commandexpert

~David

[georges80]

Thank you George for coming back to this subject. I was following up with some colleagues before replying. While there are no plans to change the pricing of the Function Generator Pro/Waveform builder, I do have a solution that might be of use to you and others reading this thread.

Command Expert (CE) is another no cost software product from Keysight. At it's heart it helps with easy programming of SCPI commands to instruments. There are also plug-ins that you can use to integrate CE into programs like Excel. With the Excel plug-in you can create your arb in the Excel cells and use CE to upload your arb into your 33250A. By using the powerful Excel equation tools you can generate your own custom arbs for upload.
www.keysight.com/find/commandexpert

~David

Thanks David. Sounds like an interesting solution that may be exactly all I need. I'll check it out for sure.

cheers,
george.

[KE5FX]

If we're on the subject of equipment support, is there any chance it'll ever be able to download data from my HP 4395A network analyser?

(Long shot, I know, but it would be really worthwhile... not sure how much longer it'll be physically possible to use floppy discs to get data off it!)

I would not shell up £1400 for a data transfer software... but have you tried out the free (as in gratis) VNA utility from John Miles? Works like charm and I use it for both the 8753 and 8510 and a NI GPIB-to-USB dongle. www.ke5fx.com Could not be simpler

VNA.EXE won't work on the 4395A, unfortunately, unless there's some sort of 100% 8753- or 8510-compatible command mode I haven't heard about.  

[MarkL]

Somehow I can't find the download link for the Linux version...

Here, let's try it it as a question since they are inviting any and all...


BenchVue Team:  When will the Linux version be available?

[Someone]

I can't see pricing for the Apps in Australian dollars, hopefully that will propagate through and not require quotes. But reading through the BV3 manual about the test flow:

Yearly renewable license.

Is the renewal required to continue running the test flows? Or just for creation of them? How do you plan for people to develop and then deploy tests using this flow?

[LaurentR]

To state this in a separate post, I'd really like to see the low-speed digitizing function available on the 34461A also made available on the 34465A without the DIG option. It makes no sense for that function to not be available just because the DIG option is not there. The 34465A is a superset of the 34461A, so why would that function not be available?

It was that way on BV2. On BV3, I don't know (BV3 on 34465A without DIG is broken so who knows whether that is still an issue), but I would certainly like to see this fixed.

[nfmax]

One minor (?) issue. The software seems to be very profligate of pixels - great big borders, massive icons, big chunky title boxes etc. It looks great on the big monitors used for the screenshots & brochures, but typically I only have room on my already crowded bench for a small monitor. This means the information density of BenchVue screens is poor. Would it be possible to implement a re-skinnable UI, with maybe some skinnier skins for tiny monitors?

[BenchVue Team]

One minor (?) issue. The software seems to be very profligate of pixels - great big borders, massive icons, big chunky title boxes etc. It looks great on the big monitors used for the screenshots & brochures, but typically I only have room on my already crowded bench for a small monitor. This means the information density of BenchVue screens is poor. Would it be possible to implement a re-skinnable UI, with maybe some skinnier skins for tiny monitors?

You can minimize sections of the screens using the little arrow buttons so that only the parts you care about are visible. For example, there is one on the instrument bar that shrinks the bar down. And there are sliders at the junction of all the windows so that you can adjust the size to your liking. You can also "pop out" any app into its own window, which will maximize screen real estate since you won't have the BenchVue specific sections visible, just the app you are using.

But yes, a large monitor does help and is a good investment (not just for BenchVue). We are also looking into offering different skins and your suggestion will be added to the list. You're right, on a small monitor, every pixel counts.

Brian

[BenchVue Team]

To state this in a separate post, I'd really like to see the low-speed digitizing function available on the 34461A also made available on the 34465A without the DIG option. It makes no sense for that function to not be available just because the DIG option is not there. The 34465A is a superset of the 34461A, so why would that function not be available?

It was that way on BV2. On BV3, I don't know (BV3 on 34465A without DIG is broken so who knows whether that is still an issue), but I would certainly like to see this fixed.

We have fixed the broken code that was keeping the 34465A app from starting unless you had the DIG option, and that update will be on the web site shortly. One thing we changed in 3.0 was to break all apps into independent pieces, so they can be updated individually without having to release a new version of BV itself. So the DMM 3.1 release will be available as soon as we can get it uploaded. I can also make it available on Dropbox if anyone urgently needs it now. Remember that you can reach support (me) directly at bv_support at keysight dot com. You can also use the "Report an Issue" option in the gear icon to zip up log files and add comments or ask for help. All such emails go to me and I respond to every one as fast as I can.

All that said, I will look into allowing the 34465A to be used as a digitizer without the DIG option. As I understand it, the 34465A has much more memory with the DIG option, and we use that to store readings so it can run at the high speed usually needed for digitizing.

Brian

[LaurentR]

You can also use the "Report an Issue" option in the gear icon to zip up log files and add comments or ask for help. All such emails go to me and I respond to every one as fast as I can.

Talking about which, I don't think the email-based issue reporting scheme in BV is a good idea. Inputting either my personal or corporate email credentials in a third-party app is generally a big no-no. And a lot of modern email requires things like specific clients, ports, secure protocols, 2-factor authentication... which makes this not that useful. For the couple of issues I have reported, I tried using this but never managed to configure it properly, then I thought I could use the attachment creation method, but nothing says to which email address and Subject to send it to...

I think it would be better to at least:
* Use the OS mailto: handler to open an email window with the right To: and Subject: lines
* Or clearly state where/how to send an email manually.

Even better would be to somehow upload the issue report and not have to go through email, but that's likely more involved.

[BenchVue Team]

Somehow I can't find the download link for the Linux version...

Here, let's try it it as a question since they are inviting any and all...
BenchVue Team:  When will the Linux version be available?

Mark, thank you for voicing the question. It is true that we do not have a Linux or OSX version of BenchVue for 3.0. We are working at adding improvements and cross platform functionality is on the list. I can't commit formally or publicly about a cross platform release, but it is functionality that we have looked into and continue to investigate.

On that note: Is anyone running Benchvue from Virtualbox? It would be nice if I know it works or not before trying...

There is some hope for users of non-Window's OS's. I can't claim full support of Virtual Machines but Keysight has informally tested using a Virtual Machine and did not see a problem. My understanding is that there might be some VM cases where the USB port needs a special configuration but that is not specific for BenchVue or T&M but all USB drivers. We'd love to hear if users have successfully used a VM with BenchVue, and we can offer some limited support if there are issues.

~David

[BenchVue Team]

I can't see pricing for the Apps in Australian dollars, hopefully that will propagate through and not require quotes. But reading through the BV3 manual about the test flow:

Yearly renewable license.

Is the renewal required to continue running the test flows? Or just for creation of them? How do you plan for people to develop and then deploy tests using this flow?

Greetings! The Test Flow license enables use with live instruments. Users may create and share the .bvseq files (our clever acronym for BenchVue sequences) without the license. But in order to work with a real instrument on your bench, the license is needed.

If anyone is interested in trying Test Flow without purchasing it, for a limited time we enabled a generous 90 day trial period for Test Flow. This will get you full access to Test Flow to try out, learn, and hopefully fall in love with. We really do believe that it will enable you to do your work a lot quicker with no programming. Don't forget that we have a Test Flow playlist on Youtube, its posted on the first post of this EEVBlog topic.

To enable your 90 day trial, you can go to the Apps tab (at the very top center)  in BenchVue, then click on the Test Flow icon. Once the description page opens there should be a button to start your trial.

~David

[nfmax]

In my experience, activating a limited-time trial license is a signal for Management to immediately switch me off one project and on to something completely different, which will occupy me fully until just before the expiry of the trial period, by which time I have completely forgotten what it was I intended to try out. Just sayin'.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Wuerstchenhund, I know that Jeff addressed this but I wanted to chime in too on the pricing subject since price ranges were mentioned for the Pro versions of the apps.

The Pro upgrades for the DMM and Power supply apps are $200 and $150. Other Pro upgrade licenses range up to $500, with an exception for the Function Generator Pro license which is up there at $750. I'm not saying that these prices are better than the free value that the base apps provide, but not all are up in the $700 range.

Thanks for the reply, David! I have to admit that I didn't check the DMM and PSU options as they weren't really relevant for us, and I agree that the pricing of up to $200 sounds much more reasonable for what these modules seem to offer (although it's still not cheap by any means).

However, the main gripes are the prices for the Function Generator Pro app (as you said $750), the Spectrum Analyzer Pro app ($500), the Oscilloscope Pro app ($400) and the Power Meter Pro app ($500), which most of the customer I talked to found excessive (and I have to agree). Don't get me wrong, the apps are nicely done, but when I pay in excess of $3500 for a 30MHz AWG it's hard to justify spending another $750 just to be able to edit some waveforms (and btw, Tektronix offers their Waveform Editor ArbExpress for free!).

Same with the oscilloscope Pro app, which essentially offers roughly the same as for example LeCroy's WaveStudio, which is completely free and unlimited.

As to the Spectrum Analyzer Pro app, again it's nicely done but doesn't really offer any notable advanced functionality that could justify the $500 price tag.

I'd say that a price at the $300 to $350 for the Function Generator Pro app would be much more reasonable (and even then it would still be expensive, and it would still be the by far most expensive waveform editor application on the market!). The scope Pro app shouldn't really cost more than $200 to $250, same for Spectrum Analyzer Pro and Power Meter Pro.

Please don't take this the wrong way, I do like BenchVue, but from a professional point of view I simply can't see good value for money at these price points. And I guess for hobbyists (who are often notoriously cash-strapped) it's not much different.

[hognala]

Somehow I can't find the download link for the Linux version...

On that note: Is anyone running Benchvue from Virtualbox? It would be nice if I know it works or not before trying...

Yep. Its working fine on the latest VirtualBox running on Mac OS X with a Windows 10 guest and IO Libraries Suite 17.1 Update 1. If you are going to use USB or a USB/GPIB adapter, don't forget to install the VirtualBox Extension Pack, enable USB 2 EHCI and install the Guest Addition CD image in the Guest OS (and attach to the USB device from the Devices --> USB menu of VirtualBox)

[LabSpokane]

My biggest complaint about BenchVue is the large amount of overhead driven by the use of .NET. I realize the virtue in using it as a lot of higher-level functionality comes for free, but it nearly demands a dedicated CPU which seems silly to me. If there is any way to pare down the CPU load, that would be appreciated.

I also still dislike the inability to leave a log file list persistently sorted. I prefer having the newest logs at the top of the list, but by default newest goes to the bottom. This seems like a trivial gripe until one must sort through many many files or reset the sort each time.

[Someone]

I can't see pricing for the Apps in Australian dollars, hopefully that will propagate through and not require quotes. But reading through the BV3 manual about the test flow:

Yearly renewable license.

Is the renewal required to continue running the test flows? Or just for creation of them? How do you plan for people to develop and then deploy tests using this flow?

Greetings! The Test Flow license enables use with live instruments. Users may create and share the .bvseq files (our clever acronym for BenchVue sequences) without the license. But in order to work with a real instrument on your bench, the license is needed.

If anyone is interested in trying Test Flow without purchasing it, for a limited time we enabled a generous 90 day trial period for Test Flow. This will get you full access to Test Flow to try out, learn, and hopefully fall in love with. We really do believe that it will enable you to do your work a lot quicker with no programming. Don't forget that we have a Test Flow playlist on Youtube, its posted on the first post of this EEVBlog topic.

To enable your 90 day trial, you can go to the Apps tab (at the very top center)  in BenchVue, then click on the Test Flow icon. Once the description page opens there should be a button to start your trial.

~David

Thank you, I have watched the videos but the licensing terms are not clear. So each instance of the software that runs with real instruments will require an annual license maintained to run the test flows? I am comparing this to the free deployment model that competitive systems offer.

[joeqsmith]

Hey EEVBlog members! We’re part of the Keysight BenchVue team and we are here to answer your questions on BenchVue. We’ll be monitoring this thread to answer your questions. Ask us anything!

Regards,
David
Brian
Jeff

You seem to make point that your package requires no programming.   To me, that is not a selling point.  If I am hooking an instrument to a PC, it is to automate some test.  I am not sure if Sparkfun still sells the kit with the water marked version of Labview for $50.   It was basically their base package.   So, it can't be cost.   

I purchased Benchlink or something for my HP33120A and HP34401A when I bought them new.  Both programs were very limited in what they could do.  I am not even sure I could run that software on a modern PC today.    I can still run Labview code that I wrote more than 20 years ago.

What is the reason anyone would purchase a canned program like this over Labview?   Is it like you stated,  that there is no need to do any programming?   

[georges80]

Benchvue Team:

Ok, I've installed the Command Expert and have Excel 2013 showing a command expert button. I click on it and then click on Create Sequence and it brings up command expert. I can then connect to my 33250A and it displays a mostly blank worksheet in Excel. It's not clear at all what I do next.

Are there any canned example work sheets I can download (for the 33250A)? How do I enter in values/voltages etc to control my 33250A.

The whole experience at this point is very poor and I'm glad this piece of software is free since I'd be demanding a refund if I'd actually had to purchase it. Very unfriendly interface.

Please help explain or point me to where I can actually learn how to get an ARB waveform going.

thanks,
george.

[hognala]

Benchvue Team:

Ok, I've installed the Command Expert and have Excel 2013 showing a command expert button. I click on it and then click on Create Sequence and it brings up command expert. I can then connect to my 33250A and it displays a mostly blank worksheet in Excel. It's not clear at all what I do next.

Are there any canned example work sheets I can download (for the 33250A)? How do I enter in values/voltages etc to control my 33250A.

The whole experience at this point is very poor and I'm glad this piece of software is free since I'd be demanding a refund if I'd actually had to purchase it. Very unfriendly interface.

Please help explain or point me to where I can actually learn how to get an ARB waveform going.

thanks,
george.

Hey georges80,

There are a couple good ways to learn how to use Command Expert:

• In Command Expert we've included lots of Tutorials that take just a few minutes to complete (but at the end you should understand everything you can do in Command Expert). I'd recommend that you 
  • first go through the Command Expert Application Tutorial to understand how to navigate and use Command Expert,
  • then do the Excel Add-in Tutorial: Authoring Workbooks to understand how to use the Excel integration.
  You can get to the Tutorials by clicking Help->Command Expert Tutorials->pick the tutorial you want
• You can also check out all of the Command Expert examples that we include in the product to get a feel for how they work. The examples are on the right side of the Welcome Screen, which you can navigate to by clicking File->View Welcome Screen
• You can also check out some of the videos we've got on YouTube, such as this video for using a DMM with Command Expert in Excel -

Let us know if you get stuck, we're glad to help!

Alan Copeland
Lead Connectivity Support Engineer @ Keysight
 

[BenchVue Team]

My biggest complaint about BenchVue is the large amount of overhead driven by the use of .NET. I realize the virtue in using it as a lot of higher-level functionality comes for free, but it nearly demands a dedicated CPU which seems silly to me. If there is any way to pare down the CPU load, that would be appreciated.

I also still dislike the inability to leave a log file list persistently sorted. I prefer having the newest logs at the top of the list, but by default newest goes to the bottom. This seems like a trivial gripe until one must sort through many many files or reset the sort each time.

LabSpokane, thank you for your feedback! We are continuing on improving the BenchVue experience and the processing power needed is always a sensitive topic both with users and our internal Keysight team.

I'll capture the sorting request and will see what can be done to keep the sort settings. I agree that it can get frustrating if you have a lot of data logs to sort through.

~David

[georges80]

Alan, thanks. I'll check out the tutorials etc, definitely need some of that to find out how to use the plug-in. An example excel sheet that created a somewhat arbitrary pulse train would have been nice.

I'll post an update if I get stuck.

cheers,
george.