Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[tautech]

Some other forums you’re not allowed to mention eBay (due to problems with rip off merchants) so it gets renamed.

@specmaster: 5KV is pretty impressive. Not sure I’d want to be anywhere near it though with that potential floating around. I’ve had a 2.5KV kick off a tek CRT bias circuit and that wasn’t much fun.

No, I'd treat it with a healthy respect if I was to ever require using it on anything remotely near 1kv. It would be very much hands off approach. I have an Avo 8 which will do 3kv via dedicated terminals and a TMK 700 which does 1.5kv in a similar fashion but that does have thick insulation on leads and probes. But you'd never get me to hold either in case there was a problem.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

Did you get leads with it ? If so, are there any V ratings on them ?

Of the first few AVO's I got they some real sus leads that looked like AVO ones but ain't !
I wouldn't use the bloody dodgy things but highly value original AVO leads.
Never had any problems with the originals on a D83 EHT of -2750V. 
But a 'hands off' approach is wise for these sorts of voltages.

[Specmaster]

Yes I got leads with the TMK and the AVO, I haven't got the 1400 yet.

[med6753]

Since the past few days we've been talking vehicles I figured I'd try to tie it into test equipment and TEA.

To wit: An Actron CP9035 OBD-II Code Reader. A form of test equipment. I purchased this unit back in 2001. At that time code readers specifically for the home mechanic were few and expensive. As I recall I paid about $180 USD for this one. And all it does it read and erase DTC's (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) and nothing else. No analysis or trending. But despite that limitation it has paid for itself several times over. But unfortunately it is rapidly becoming obsolete. Starting in about 2005 or so the CAN protocol was becoming more or less the standard. This code reader cannot interface with CAN. But it can work with the older OBD-II protocols. So I can still use it on my 2004 Honda Civic but not on my 2013 Honda CR-V. But I do have a PC based OBD-II program with USB to OBD-II that I can use on that vehicle. That program handles all OBD-II protocols.



In all the years I've had this reader I've never taken it apart. Until now. Here's the main circuit board. I didn't bother to look up the chips but there's at least 1 Seimens chip and several Motorola chips. I couldn't disassemble it further to view the backside because the LM294 on lower left is riveted to the top of the case. Beats me as to why they did that.



So there you have it. Cars, test equipment, TEA.   

[Specmaster]

Since the past few days we've been talking vehicles I figured I'd try to tie it into test equipment and TEA.

To wit: An Actron CP9035 OBD-II Code Reader. A form of test equipment. I purchased this unit back in 2001. At that time code readers specifically for the home mechanic were few and expensive. As I recall I paid about $180 USD for this one. And all it does it read and erase DTC's (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) and nothing else. No analysis or trending. But despite that limitation it has paid for itself several times over. But unfortunately it is rapidly becoming obsolete. Starting in about 2005 or so the CAN protocol was becoming more or less the standard. This code reader cannot interface with CAN. But it can work with the older OBD-II protocols. So I can still use it on my 2004 Honda Civic but not on my 2013 Honda CR-V. But I do have a PC based OBD-II program with USB to OBD-II that I can use on that vehicle. That program handles all OBD-II protocols.



In all the years I've had this reader I've never taken it apart. Until now. Here's the main circuit board. I didn't bother to look up the chips but there's at least 1 Seimens chip and several Motorola chips. I couldn't disassemble it further to view the backside because the LM294 on lower left is riveted to the top of the case. Beats me as to why they did that.



So there you have it. Cars, test equipment, TEA.   

I recently got one of the newer ones to use on my Skoda Superb from AliExpress which cost me IIRC £2.50 seems to work really well over WiFi to my phone.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

[bd139]

OBD-2 cables FTW. Also got one, a USB jobby and Multi ECU scan. Allows me to kick off the DPF regen before emissions test (thus prolonging the vehicle life and wallet contents) and kill the service indicator every time I don't get it serviced

med6573's one is a rather nicely engineered bit of kit though. I haven't cracked mine open but it's probably got bugger all in it.

[bd139]

6237B now fixed and operational. Diode replaced. Photo, because sexy gold PCB:



And without any adjustments, it's pretty dead on:



Got a bunch of wirewound resistors arriving tomorrow so will chuck it on load for a few hours and see if it survives!

[mnementh]

Since the past few days we've been talking vehicles I figured I'd try to tie it into test equipment and TEA.

To wit: An Actron CP9035 OBD-II Code Reader. A form of test equipment. I purchased this unit back in 2001. At that time code readers specifically for the home mechanic were few and expensive. As I recall I paid about $180 USD for this one. And all it does it read and erase DTC's (Diagnostic Trouble Codes) and nothing else. No analysis or trending. But despite that limitation it has paid for itself several times over. But unfortunately it is rapidly becoming obsolete. Starting in about 2005 or so the CAN protocol was becoming more or less the standard. This code reader cannot interface with CAN. But it can work with the older OBD-II protocols. So I can still use it on my 2004 Honda Civic but not on my 2013 Honda CR-V. But I do have a PC based OBD-II program with USB to OBD-II that I can use on that vehicle. That program handles all OBD-II protocols.



In all the years I've had this reader I've never taken it apart. Until now. Here's the main circuit board. I didn't bother to look up the chips but there's at least 1 Seimens chip and several Motorola chips. I couldn't disassemble it further to view the backside because the LM294 on lower left is riveted to the top of the case. Beats me as to why they did that.

So there you have it. Cars, test equipment, TEA.       

I was one of the guinea pigs on the first USB version of Scantool.net's ELM327-based OBD2 package. Software was buggy and crashed on anything newer than XP (crashed on that too unless you were in VGA native mode), the FTDI serial-USB drivers were a total PITA, and it usually took several tries before it would connect to the car, but it was the only affordable package that could talk to J1850 cars like my wife's Saturn AND newer cars using CANBus. I still have the dongle and the software on an old ToughBook I keep around for nuking CISCOs.

They shot themselves in the foot when they tried to turn that UI into the "gateway" software for third-party vendors; the constant "their fault, not ours" runaround made both vendors look like a joke, and users made sure to tell of their misery in great detail on all the car repair forums.

Nowadays, you get better functionality than either from a $9 BT dongle and a $5 (free if you just need to read/erase DTCs and can put up with commercials) app on your android phone.

If you need full-featured Dealership diag modes, OTC does make a number of stand-alone scanners that are surprisingly comprehensive for the price. They did well enough in the aftermarket to drive many manufacturers to adopt them as their primary diag tool; but that's a story for another day.


mnem
*ploop*

[Specmaster]

6237B now fixed and operational. Diode replaced. Photo, because sexy gold PCB:



And without any adjustments, it's pretty dead on:



Got a bunch of wirewound resistors arriving tomorrow so will chuck it on load for a few hours and see if it survives!

That is spot on, no need to calibrate, but then thats what we've come to expect from HP gear in general that they hold their calibration really well. Love those gold plated tracks on their PCB's 

[bd139]

As always plus one power supply, minus one power supply. My TTi PL310 just blew up. Well not blew up but it’s reading zero volts on the output. Grrr!

[Specmaster]

As always plus one power supply, minus one power supply. My TTi PL310 just blew up. Well not blew up but it’s reading zero volts on one channel. Grrr.

You just kill your power supplies, you'll have to treat them with a little more respect. I'm struggling to get on the forum from my computer today so I won't be able to post pictures of the meter just yet. Main problem with it is battery corrosion, new battery holder coming, otherwise slight tweaking of trim pots required.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

[bd139]

This one was sourcing a whole 2mA so not exactly hammered ... currently playing with the idea of saying sod it and buying a DP832.

Forum is knackered. Lots of lag and timeouts. Same situation here.

Corrosion boo. Disappointing when you find that in something.

[med6753]

6237B now fixed and operational. Diode replaced. Photo, because sexy gold PCB:



And without any adjustments, it's pretty dead on:



Got a bunch of wirewound resistors arriving tomorrow so will chuck it on load for a few hours and see if it survives!

I forgot to comment on this before. That is a nice supply and it really cleaned up.  But I'm a little put off by what seems to me a somewhat low current capability based upon it's physical size. I would have expected at least 2 to 3 amps available for the 18 volt output. Am I missing something?

[bd139]

It’s quite low output. 2x20v @ 500mA plus 1x 18V @ 1A is total 40W. However it is totally 100% passively cooled and silent. It’s designed for typical dual rail linear circuit designs with an aux channel for digital logic or something else. They do a 6236B which has 6v @ 2.5A instead of the 18V rail.

Most of the time I’m working with sub 100mA designs so meh. Occasionally I need some grunt at which point it have a monster 15V 30A and less monster 15V 4A jobby.

[med6753]

This one was sourcing a whole 2mA so not exactly hammered ... currently playing with the idea of saying sod it and buying a DP832.

Forum is knackered. Lots of lag and timeouts. Same situation here.

Corrosion boo. Disappointing when you find that in something.

Yes, the forum is extremely slow.

[bd139]

Fixed the PL310 already. Reseated the driver board connector and all is fine.

[Specmaster]

Fixed the PL310 already. Reseated the driver board connector and all is fine.

Shades of my 1740A there.

[Specmaster]

Got the 1400 meter, gave it a quick wipe over, it was filthy, more cleaning tomorrow, battery and holder was corroded and broken, new unit arriving in a couple of days, hooked up power supply and tested Ohms ranges, all seems to be Ok there. Volts are slightly off but there are 6 trimmers but not marked what does what, so a little experimentation to be done.

Meter itself is in almost new condition, one screw that holds the leather handle on is broken, probes not up to today's standards, carry case is a bit ropey and catch is rusty but it did its job and protected the meter. It even has the original users manual, just as well because info on the web about this is as plentiful as that alleged pot of gold at the end of the rainbow 

To give an idea as to the size, it the same depth and width as a AVO 8 but 15mm taller and the meter scales are the same size. All things considered I'm very happy with the price I paid for this, another specmaster special, just £7.50

Here are a few photos so far. I will photo the guts when I get the battery holder, it is different to the pictures I posted from the web.

[bd139]

Looking good. I've seen the same thing happen to earlier Thurlby battery holders made out of white plastic. They appear to go brittle and smash under stress.

[Cerebus]

Looking good. I've seen the same thing happen to earlier Thurlby battery holders made out of white plastic. They appear to go brittle and smash under stress.

I've seen that before too.

Just out of curiosity I had a go at looking up the mechanism and it looks like it might be stress corrosion cracking. A close look at the broken edge would be diagnostic as SCC leaves a very characteristic pattern. The permanent stress from the battery holder acting as a spring, combined with crack tip corrosion from residual electrolyte left behind after a leaked battery is cleaned up would appear to be a viable culprit. That suggests that if you have a nylon battery holder and its subjected to a leaking battery you ought to replace, rather than clean up, the battery holder.

I know way more than any non-materials scientist ought to know about SCC as a former flatmate did his final year university project (and subsequent PhD) on SCC and, frankly, he became a bit of a bore on the subject but it's an ill wind and all that and I ended up with quite an education in the subject. I keep on freaking out metallurgists and material scientists by even knowing what SCC is, let alone being capable of having a moderately informed conversation about it - it's surprising how often it's come up in conversation.

[Specmaster]

Looking good. I've seen the same thing happen to earlier Thurlby battery holders made out of white plastic. They appear to go brittle and smash under stress.

I've seen that before too.

Just out of curiosity I had a go at looking up the mechanism and it looks like it might be stress corrosion cracking. A close look at the broken edge would be diagnostic as SCC leaves a very characteristic pattern. The permanent stress from the battery holder acting as a spring, combined with crack tip corrosion from residual electrolyte left behind after a leaked battery is cleaned up would appear to be a viable culprit. That suggests that if you have a nylon battery holder and its subjected to a leaking battery you ought to replace, rather than clean up, the battery holder.

I know way more than any non-materials scientist ought to know about SCC as a former flatmate did his final year university project (and subsequent PhD) on SCC and, frankly, he became a bit of a bore on the subject but it's an ill wind and all that and I ended up with quite an education in the subject. I keep on freaking out metallurgists and material scientists by even knowing what SCC is, let alone being capable of having a moderately informed conversation about it - it's surprising how often it's come up in conversation.

Yeah, I'm replacing it with a black one, not sure what the precise material is though.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]

[med6753]

OBD-2 cables FTW. Also got one, a USB jobby and Multi ECU scan. Allows me to kick off the DPF regen before emissions test (thus prolonging the vehicle life and wallet contents) and kill the service indicator every time I don't get it serviced

med6573's one is a rather nicely engineered bit of kit though. I haven't cracked mine open but it's probably got bugger all in it.

On this side of the pond annual inspections, and what it entails, is left to each state to decide. California is the strictest state when it comes to emissions testing and there are some states that have no testing of either safety or emissions. I reside in New York State and we have an annual “Safety and Emissions Inspection”. The vehicle is checked for tires, brakes, steering, lights, etc. If the vehicle is 1996 or newer the ECU is linked on line to DMV (Dept of Motor Vehicles) and scanned for current and pending DTC's. If any are found it's an automatic fail. Even if it's DTC P0440 for loose fuel cap you fail. Get it fixed then test again (and pay again).

A few months ago the Honda Civic starting puking DTC P1457. The detail is “Evaporative check valve minor leak to atmosphere”. In other words....I had a small fuel vapor leak near the charcoal canister assembly. Horrors! I'm polluting! A bit of research revealed that this is a fairly common problem in older Hondas. The evap valve and the canister are located under the vehicle by the fuel tank, exposed to the elements. The evap valve rusts and develops pin hole leaks. And individuals reported that shops and dealers charged upwards of $500 USD to fix it. So a few weeks ago I got under the Civic and checked this valve. Sure enough, it was rusted. I ordered a new valve and canister assembly. About $150 USD in parts. 1.5 hours of my labor (cheap) and the new parts were installed. Reset the DTC and drove it for a week to make sure it was fixed. It was. Last Wednesday it passed it's annual inspection with no issues. That scan tool paid for itself again.

[mnementh]

Looking good. I've seen the same thing happen to earlier Thurlby battery holders made out of white plastic. They appear to go brittle and smash under stress.

I spent a few years working in the AV Repair Shop in my High School; it was where I got my start in electronics. I've seen this particular failure mode more times than I can count in AA, C and D size battery holders of this type. Devices that get forgotten and stowed turned on tend to kill batteries such that they leak much more often; in extreme cases the resultant oxidation of the battery itself makes the battery "grow" in all directions. I've seen ones cracked apart like this where once you clean away the remains, you can see how the force of the decomposition of the battery was great enough to flatten the coil spring, and in some cases it stays flattened due to oxidation thinning and removing the temper of the remaining steel.

This seemed to be much more common with carbon-zinc batteries, however I have seen it happen with alkaline cells as well.

That is my best educated guess as to your culprit; not that it matters, because once the contacts are that far corroded, replacement really is the only option.

The fix I related earlier in this thread of cleaning with Windex & wire detail brush to neutralize the electrolyte and silicone dielectric grease to prevent corrosion relapse is really only reasonable in cases like remote controls and meters where replacing the battery contacts with new is not feasible.


mnem
*Back to the joys of parenthood*

[bitseeker]

This one's for Pat,

...

https://www.ebay.com/itm/HP-Agilent-Keysight-Label-Logo-lot-of-3-Approx-size-13mm-X-7-5mm/183244639135

GREAT find - thanks for the tip, bitseeker!   

I just grabbed some.  There's probably a pallet of the damned things buried in a warehouse somewhere, and some day a space probe will find all those that have gone missing from old gear orbiting a distant planet in a huge clump, tangled up with the trillions of single socks that have vanished without a trace from washing machines and dryers down through the years.

Sure thing. I remember some of yours were missing the little guys. Looking forward to seeing them with their facelift.

Yeah, vanishing socks, pen caps, SMT components, etc.

[bitseeker]

Cleaned the HP 6237B seeing as I have bugger all else to do this evening and am in OCD mode.

It's the cleanest HP supply I've ever seen! They're usually in a right state 

Looks like new! Wow!

Can you see the manufacturer and model of the power switch? I think it may be the same as on the HP 6114A. I got one that needs a replacement, but my good one uses a rocker switch, not flat toggle.

[Specmaster]

Yes the batteries in this were I think Carbon Zinc as they were the original ones that came with the meter, made by Toshiba and were swollen and rusty.

From mobile device so predictive text might have struck again [emoji83]