Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 907024 times)

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Offline URI

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3050 on: October 22, 2017, 08:26:46 am »
Thanks, bitseeker. -Ah, another story:

After I had put the "new" HP 3335A near my bench (not enough room, have to clear things up), I switched my oscilloscope on.
Well, I tried.
In that very moment the power switched lost its latching function.  :wtf:

Since I didn't want to press down that switch all the time I was testing I had to repair it. Opened the oscilloscope (Philips/Fluke PM3065), pulled out the power supply PCB, identified the broken switch and found two in stock at the local Conrad Electronic store. A march of ~1h later I had two drop-in replacement switches.
Two? You'll never know..  :palm:

I desoldered it with my freshly arrived Solder Peak SP-1010DR desoldering station. What a relief compared to using a desoldering hand-pump! Strange enough: Isn't that a remarkable coincidence: I have to desolder a switch that just became defective on the same day the desoldering station was delivered?  :)

Well, having the PM3065 open once I threw in a 60mmx60mmx25mm 12V fan as the oscilloscope was always getting rather warm after half an our on or so virtually cooking the electrolytics to death quicker than necessary. Interestingly the PM3065 uses the housing the higher models are also built with -and those have a fan in it; there's a mounting space where the fan can be just clipped in without need for screws.  :rant:

To get the 12V fans supply I took a +5V and a -6.4V line out of the same secondary winding of the supply that's unused in the PM3065 because it doesn't have the digital storage functionality of the higher models installed.
Knocked up a little protective circuit using a diode, an electrolytic capacitor and an 22ohms/5W resistor and put that in.

Well after more than three ours on with fan the PM3065s surface is only slightly above room temperature.  :-+

Should never have been shipped without a fan installed, imho.  :palm:
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 09:30:49 am by URI »
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3051 on: October 22, 2017, 08:43:51 am »
I guess your scope saw the new desoldering station and decided it was a good time to get your attention. ;D
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3052 on: October 22, 2017, 09:11:09 am »
There great arent they, much much better then wicking all the time. :-+
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Offline Cubdriver

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3053 on: October 22, 2017, 10:44:00 am »
neo & URI - sounds like you both won the eBay 'lottery' this weekend - congrats!   :-+ :-+

That's great news!

-Pat
If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 
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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3054 on: October 22, 2017, 02:44:13 pm »
Turns out i have a half of a fully functional 7A26 at some point something whacked the bottom and hard. Still works though the volt/div knob is thrashed as is the position knob. Well actually the position knob is fine except for the vernier in it and the volt/div switch is fine except for its vernier.

The bulb for "left vertical" is burnt out.

Pressed single shot and heard a loud snap.

7B53 doesn't appear to work perfectly, no lights on the plug in and all it does do is affect he readout some.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2017, 04:20:07 pm by neo »
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3055 on: October 22, 2017, 08:08:45 pm »
Turns out i have a half of a fully functional 7A26 at some point something whacked the bottom and hard. Still works though the volt/div knob is thrashed as is the position knob. Well actually the position knob is fine except for the vernier in it and the volt/div switch is fine except for its vernier.

The bulb for "left vertical" is burnt out.

Pressed single shot and heard a loud snap.

7B53 doesn't appear to work perfectly, no lights on the plug in and all it does do is affect he readout some.
Oh dear boxing day has arrived equally early then. I have seen 7A26 modules on Ebay but not sure what they go for, or it might be better to have a parts mule. Either way it takes the excitement out of what was thought to be a brilliant bargain but it could still be a good purchase, keep looking.

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Online neo

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3056 on: October 22, 2017, 08:45:27 pm »
You see i have an interesting way, i enjoy it for a while then i start actively looking for problems.  :-DD
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Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3057 on: October 22, 2017, 09:23:35 pm »
Every 7000 series plug in I see on eBay has broken knobs.

Really pisses me off how these sorts of things are handled by disposal companies. Just smash and slam them around.
 

Offline khs

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3058 on: October 22, 2017, 09:29:52 pm »
Do you believe in santa? I may have to reconsider my stance, killer deal, delivered a day early, and last callibrated in '96.  :-DD

The packaging was well worth the 80 bucks shipping, wrapped in 3 inches of bubble wrap with another 3 inches of polyethylene foam sheet on every side.

All 4 channels in working order, all accurate to each other, and excluding the 2nd 200MHz channel free of bugs. The only glitch on the 200MHz channel 2 is that it constantly says "IDENTIFY" and has its volts/div know missing with the push in/out out vernier broken off.
7A26   calibrated 06/12/96 by STK
7A18   calibrated 07/27/95 by Instrument Repair Labs.
7B85   calibrated 10/24/96 by STK
7B53   calibrated 07/27/95 by Instrument Repair Labs.
7704A calibrated 04/14/96 by STK

The test is a bit of a quick test, same signal going to all channels. I have it sitting on an old typewriter table i bought for 10 bucks, not a perfect fit but it is pretty close.

Excuse the red, it is just what my camera does if you turn off the flash.

 :-+ :-+ :-+ :-+

7B53 doesn't appear to work perfectly, no lights on the plug in and all it does do is affect he readout some.
There are no lights in the 7B53A, because it's designed for the 76x3 series.

Now your are on a new level of GAS. Take a look at the nice plugins like the 7A13 or 7A22. A must have.

Then you will see, one mainframe is no mainframe, because if your nice 7804 fails, all of your plugings are worthless. And so on...  :-DD
   
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3059 on: October 22, 2017, 09:35:45 pm »
There are a couple 7A26's on offer on the UK ebay site, any good to you?
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3060 on: October 22, 2017, 09:54:17 pm »
Every 7000 series plug in I see on eBay has broken knobs.

I've seen boxes full of 7000 plugins at hamfests. If I had room for the mainframe, I might think about getting a sampling plugin.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3061 on: October 22, 2017, 10:11:28 pm »
Really pisses me off how these sorts of things are handled by disposal companies. Just smash and slam them around.

The problem is the disposal companies employ people with no nous at all, of a similar calibre to the idiot taking down scaffolding outside my house at this very minute who was just dropping lengths of scaffolding pole vertically into the street until I shouted at him.

A adjacent company went to the wall back around the the turn of the century and someone got the job of clearing their offices. I came in one morning to see a brand new, still crated, unused STM-4 multiplexer dumped in a skip. There's two things wrong with this: (1) At was at least £100,000 worth of kit, (2) it was BT site equipment, waiting to be fitted.
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Offline URI

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3062 on: October 22, 2017, 11:53:15 pm »
[HP 3335A for parts/repair]
Quick testing of it showed that the internal OCXO ist so far off the unit won't lock on it.
[..]
I will have to look for the reason why the OCXO is inaccurate. It's stable on the other hand -that's on the plus side.
[..]

Well, I was glad the OCXO is off but stable. It isn't, really.
The oven heated up and the OCXO seemed to creep to a stable frequency but it's effectively unregulated. Cooling the OCXO directly changed the frequency and resulted in a transient oscillation of the frequency with time constant of 30 minutes and longer. Absolutely no control/regulation.  :-//

I took the oven apart and checked a few things.
Solder joints didn't look good all the way so I reworked them. No effect.
Interestingly after that the heater drew no current at all.   :wtf:

The darlington transistor MJE700 driving the heater was ok but with a DC current gain of 45. The datasheet says minimum 100 (up to 750).
I replaced it with a single PNP transistor I had laying around (gain >300..) but no effect.
With the spare transistor connected to the heater circuit I eventually tried to get control over temperature again by turning the 5k trimmer that's hidden when the OCXO is assembled. With a very strange behaviour did the heater heat or did not heat randomly while turning the trimmer.
It turned out that this 5k trimmer is totally down the drain: It switches (!) between >1Meg and 1ohm.  :-- (first photo)

Throwing a 50k trimmer in (adjusted to 2.5k) the heater control came to life again controlling the temperature precisely.  :-+ (second photo)

I don't have the right parts on hand so I'll have to wait till tomorrow. Hope the OCXO will be working correctly after repair.
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Offline W8LV

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3063 on: October 22, 2017, 11:58:43 pm »

A genuinely true anecdote...

When my wife was out one weekend I slept with my Marconi 2019A RF generator. Neither of them will forgive me.

Incidentally this was because the dining table, kitchen sides were covered wth crap, the kids had wrecked the living room sofas, it was 2AM and I'd spent 5 hours trying to get a Telequipment D83 to trigger and the sig gen was already in the bed because there was nowhere else to stick it so I thought what the hell.

A lesson was learned as indicated by the scar on my arse crack: Remove the rack handles before sleeping with your test gear.
I once had an affair with an Eico and an Identical TWIN PAIR of Tektronics at the same time. I was in my early twenties, but even then, it was hard keeping up, even at my young age. And you know? It just got to be too much for me to handle... I couldn't keep one set of leads from getting confused in the middle of a lab "session" with which scope I was courting at the time.  I know it's disgusting now looking back at it all since I also had a Girlfriend, but my hands were ALL OVER these Scopes... Playing as I was with  High Voltage Fire, I didn't even observe the "keep one hand in your pocket rule" . God,  I guess we were ALL a bit wreckless back then,  before we had to worry about CMOS Static and Viruses(!) We didn't worry that just ONE touch could ruin everything...I was one of those guys in my Wasted Youth... Long Hair, Polyester Pants static generating be damned, and All Caution to the wind, though I DID least have a Pen Pocket Protector.  Here I was even putting my Girlfriend at risk, of losing her Boyfriend anyway, but I'm sure in hindsight, that even SHE would get over the shock. By the next weekend. Boyfriends like me were a dime a dozen. Especially the nonathletic types like me who spent sunny days in a dingy apartment electronics lab. After all, in those Heady GTO Days, I was driving an Oldsmobile Cutllass! Not an Oldsmobile Cutlass Deluxe. JUST an Oldsmobile Cutlass. With Massey Ferguson Tractor Red Paint over the Rusted and smashed back left quarter panel from where I had wrecked it on a Road Trip to pick up...YES! MORE Electronics Junque from Fair Radio Sales in Lima, Ohio!  You get the picture.

You know, the "twins" were very Up Town and Sophisticated. But the Eico had such an alluring Vacuum tube Smell, even though she was a bit more of a Waterfront kind of painted "Lady", with a thicker green phosphor line and all. She lacked the Badge and the Window Dressing Makeup. But she knew what to do...

And then, it happened.

My Eico was left with one of her previous "suitors" with a replacement nonpolarized plug. Some guys are like that: They just USE a scope and then take the Cheap and Undignified way out: And there she sits at the Garage Sale...until finally  she is reduced to the Landfill Status Discard..But a few LUCKY ONES are Rescued.

I had just switched apartments, trying to keep a low profile in my Obsessional Shame. Just after signing The Lease with The Landlord who bought my "cover story" of being a mere College Student who wouldn't convert the back open second story patio into an Antenna Farm resembling the roof of an Embassy and a SAM Site,  I nonchalantly plugged her in at the new domicile, without checking which way the polarity was... I gently turned up her gain. The smell of vacuum tubes, capacitor wax, and dust was overpowering. I gently touched her with the back of my hand, and the sensation of warmth was indescribable! I hadn't plugged in the Tektronics Twins yet..they didn't need to know about THIS little Test Bench Romp! Yet their empty cold CRT's stared on in blank disgust at what was about to happen.

I was simultaneously annoyed with ANOTHER smell, namely the crappy "Cost Cutter" Generic Brand pizza in the Gas oven that was way past the 45 minute wind up timer bell ding that I had set to remind me that it was ready and I always forgot about in the middle of my experiments anyway. I couldn't afford a microwave back then. Few could. But then again,  that wasn't the kind of microwaves I was interested in back in the day. So I ate lot of Burned Costcutter Pizza. There's nothing worse than Burned Costcutter Generic Pizza. Than not eating at all. Other than drinking Costcutter Generic Beer. Which is actually not better than not drinking at all. But not by much.

My Breadboard Experiment "Device Under Test" was all ready to go. This was hand carried from the "Old" apartment not disassembled and put back together at the new place...that would have been the LOGICAL way to move it: Instead, IT had made a separate and distinct trip in the Cutllass. And all the way up the steps. It was "ready", I told my Girlfriend. And would only take me a few minutes to complete. Of Course, that ACTUALLY meant three hours and fourty five minutes of futzing around with four dozen Alligator Clips, and one Frozen Pizza as I recall and reckon.

But it was ready.

You Christen a ship with a bottle of Champagne. Times being what they were, I popped the lid on a Generic can of warm beer. It was a white can, and it had a black label, that said "Beer". But it sure didn't taste like a Carling Black Label, no matter how good the price was. Somehow, it matched the Eico for the Moment of Truth.

So I plugged in my unprotected  Male Banana Plug into the Eico's Female Jack, as I had so many times before. Just as my Girlfriend entered the room as she was saying: "What are you doing in there?" from behind the closed but unocked door. Since it didn't have a lock on it

And all Hell Broke loose in a flash and lightning ball that only Thor could deliver. Or, in this case? Abraham Lincoln. Yep, that's right! Old Honest Abe Himself. (Thor WOULD come to visit me a number of years later, and luckily I lived.)

Between the pizza and the electronics, the smoke was Tremendous. White and Black and thin and thick,  all at the same time. The cooking sounds stopped first with the pizza, but the electronics were still sizzling. It's a bad sound, and it doesn't give the satisfaction of a sizzling steak on the grill. Not nearly. And you can't really stop the smell, but at least you can put out the fire with two boxes of Cost Cutter Generic Baking Soda.

After I got a hold of a flashlight, and turned the pizza off, since the Gas oven wasn't even mildly concerned that the electrons no longer want through our tungsten filaments or anything else for that matter, I located the breaker box. Which wasn't a breaker box.

It was a fuze box. There wasn't even a box of spare fuzes left be the previous occupant. Everybody always at least  kept a couple of spares taped to the cover if not an entire box minus one replacement...after all, there were no twenty four hour Wally Worlds back then. So if you had a Sump Pump and it was Sunday, and you didn't have a spare fuze? Guess What? That meant that you were going Swimming, that's what!

So now I figure well I have to unscrew the Old Fuze anyway, and try to come up with a replacement of the same size. From somewhere. It was Sunday.

And then I figured it out: The previous Occupant had placed a penny in the fuze box in place of a fuze. Probably on a Sunday.

I'm Certain, that all the Power plants in North America placed their Entire Electrical Output through that ONE single phase 15 Amp A.C. Circuit.

My shock was Tremendous. My Tektronics Twins Stared on in Blank Disbelief. My Girlfriend ran down the steps. I was fairly certain that she wasn't going to be back with a fuze. Or ever. When she did came back, I was trying to put the smoke back into the Eico, but the Rescue Mission quickly became a Recovery Operation, and then an Autopsy. And my Girlfriend didn't have a fuze, but she DID blow a fuze when I asked her if she had one. We got married.


73 and All the Best!

DE W8LV Bill





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Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3064 on: October 23, 2017, 12:55:26 am »
That is hilarious!!  :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD :-DD
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Offline AF6LJ

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3065 on: October 23, 2017, 02:04:29 am »
In
Memory
of the
Eico Scope
[/b]

Sue AF6LJ
Test Equipment Addict, And Proud Of It.
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3066 on: October 23, 2017, 02:09:15 am »
Thar's yer problem:

Fuze:

Fuse:
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Online WastelandTek

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3067 on: October 23, 2017, 02:51:06 am »
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 02:55:00 am by WastelandTek »
I'm new here, but I tend to be pretty gregarious, so if I'm out of my lane please call me out.
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3068 on: October 23, 2017, 04:01:55 am »
Turns out i have a half of a fully functional 7A26 at some point something whacked the bottom and hard. Still works though the volt/div knob is thrashed as is the position knob. Well actually the position knob is fine except for the vernier in it and the volt/div switch is fine except for its vernier.

The bulb for "left vertical" is burnt out.

Pressed single shot and heard a loud snap.

7B53 doesn't appear to work perfectly, no lights on the plug in and all it does do is affect he readout some.
Try this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tektronix-7A26-Dual-Trace-Amplifier-Plug-In-3-/222528208603?epid=1023298074&hash=item33cfb6fedb:g:6bAAAOSwsXFZLDi9

and there is about 18 on offer in the USA, some are supposed to be fully working, good luck.

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Online neo

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3069 on: October 23, 2017, 06:29:12 am »
Do you believe in santa? I may have to reconsider my stance, killer deal, delivered a day early, and last callibrated in '96.  :-DD

The packaging was well worth the 80 bucks shipping, wrapped in 3 inches of bubble wrap with another 3 inches of polyethylene foam sheet on every side.

All 4 channels in working order, all accurate to each other, and excluding the 2nd 200MHz channel free of bugs. The only glitch on the 200MHz channel 2 is that it constantly says "IDENTIFY" and has its volts/div know missing with the push in/out out vernier broken off.
7A26   calibrated 06/12/96 by STK
7A18   calibrated 07/27/95 by Instrument Repair Labs.
7B85   calibrated 10/24/96 by STK
7B53   calibrated 07/27/95 by Instrument Repair Labs.
7704A calibrated 04/14/96 by STK

The test is a bit of a quick test, same signal going to all channels. I have it sitting on an old typewriter table i bought for 10 bucks, not a perfect fit but it is pretty close.

Excuse the red, it is just what my camera does if you turn off the flash.

 :-+ :-+ :-+ :-+

7B53 doesn't appear to work perfectly, no lights on the plug in and all it does do is affect he readout some.
There are no lights in the 7B53A, because it's designed for the 76x3 series.

Now your are on a new level of GAS. Take a look at the nice plugins like the 7A13 or 7A22. A must have.

Then you will see, one mainframe is no mainframe, because if your nice 7804 fails, all of your plugings are worthless. And so on...  :-DD
 

That explains why the unit doesn't light up the switched, though does it explain why the screen readout blanks in the lowest and highest timebase settings?

With this new level of GAS i actually already have a list, 7D01 (if i can ever find probes), 7L13 (if i ever find one, a second 7A26s with good knobs, a 7A26 or 18 whose knobs i can steal borrow for this one, 7CT1N, 7D14, 7D13, 7M13
And that is just for  oscilloscope plug-ins, extending the list to ALL plug-ins; FG5010, FG504, LA501 (if i ever find one), DM5120 (if i ever find one), PS5004, PS501-1 PS501-2, two PS505
As for the mainframes on this list, 7904A, 7104A and 2 rack mount TM506, I'm arguably the worst type of TEA addict, one that has a list, that is just my plug in list. :-DD

Thats just the stuff for which i can think of a use for, i'm not entirely sure how i would use 7A13 or 7A22.

Turns out i have a half of a fully functional 7A26 at some point something whacked the bottom and hard. Still works though the volt/div knob is thrashed as is the position knob. Well actually the position knob is fine except for the vernier in it and the volt/div switch is fine except for its vernier.

The bulb for "left vertical" is burnt out.

Pressed single shot and heard a loud snap.

7B53 doesn't appear to work perfectly, no lights on the plug in and all it does do is affect he readout some.
Try this http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Tektronix-7A26-Dual-Trace-Amplifier-Plug-In-3-/222528208603?epid=1023298074&hash=item33cfb6fedb:g:6bAAAOSwsXFZLDi9

and there is about 18 on offer in the USA, some are supposed to be fully working, good luck.



Thank you for your help but i'm broke for the rest of the month. Anything i spend now, beside leading to my being lynched, would also start cutting off vital necessities like internet or tv.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2017, 06:43:15 am by neo »
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Offline khs

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3070 on: October 23, 2017, 07:53:04 am »
The 7A13 is a differential comparator with +-10V internal offset. So you can display a 10V DC signal with  1 mV/div resolution.

The 7A22 is a plugin with down to 10 µV / div resolution for very small signals. I use it to display the 77.5 KHz DCF77 signal in Germany to 'calibrate' my signal generator. ( I hope there is no time-nut around)

You may take a look at the storage mainframe like the 7613 / 7623 or 7623 too. It's like a x-y or x-t plotter. I use it to display variations of a pwm signal.
 
But the real advantage is the amplifier output you find at the rear side of you 7804, so your mainframe/plugin setup is a preamplifier / signal conditioner too with 10 MOhm input impedance if you use a 10:1 probe.

The 7B53 is not only a timebase, it's a delay generator too. Just put you signal into a plugin, trigger the 7B53 with this channel and then you get from your 7B53 timebase a delayed signal to trigger a pulse generator or others..

So look around in the manuals of your mainframe / plugins and have a lot of fun with your new 7804.. :-+
 
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3071 on: October 23, 2017, 04:32:42 pm »
@W8LV: Wow, Bill, that was quite the adventure! :-DD
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Online neo

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3072 on: October 23, 2017, 05:14:06 pm »
The 7A13 is a differential comparator with +-10V internal offset. So you can display a 10V DC signal with  1 mV/div resolution.

The 7A22 is a plugin with down to 10 µV / div resolution for very small signals. I use it to display the 77.5 KHz DCF77 signal in Germany to 'calibrate' my signal generator. ( I hope there is no time-nut around)

You may take a look at the storage mainframe like the 7613 / 7623 or 7623 too. It's like a x-y or x-t plotter. I use it to display variations of a pwm signal.
 
But the real advantage is the amplifier output you find at the rear side of you 7804, so your mainframe/plugin setup is a preamplifier / signal conditioner too with 10 MOhm input impedance if you use a 10:1 probe.

The 7B53 is not only a timebase, it's a delay generator too. Just put you signal into a plugin, trigger the 7B53 with this channel and then you get from your 7B53 timebase a delayed signal to trigger a pulse generator or others..

So look around in the manuals of your mainframe / plugins and have a lot of fun with your new 7804.. :-+

Those now too are on my list.  :-DD
Small correction however, you said 7804 while mine is 7704A
A hopeless addict (and slave) to TEA and a firm believer that high frequency is little more than modern hoodoo.
 

Online mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3073 on: October 23, 2017, 11:58:30 pm »
He knows you're going to get the 7804 mainframe so you can make proper use of that plugin, sure as I'm sittin' 'ere.

'ow? Because you're sittin' 'dere, readin 'dis gorp group.  :-DD


mnem
Plugin Fever - Catch It!!!
 

Offline zucca

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #3074 on: October 24, 2017, 01:34:44 am »
I got a package delivered to me. What did I ordered? Don't remember anymore...
Yes, another TEA symptom.
Can't know what you don't love. St. Augustine
Can't love what you don't know. Zucca
 
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