Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Specmaster]

What is that specifically that you want to do then? It just strikes me that these days meters are all terribly expensive given that what they do is really pretty basic stuff 90% of the time. I'd love to be able to afford to buy stuff new each time but then the head kicks in and I get to thinking is it really justified for the amount of usage these things would get. Perhaps if the there tools of my trade and I had my own business then I could justify the money. For the same amount of money I think I could get so many pieces of equipment secondhand that are still potent bits of kit and that way extend my capabilities even further, more bang per buck factor.   

[Mr. Scram]

What is that specifically that you want to do then? It just strikes me that these days meters are all terribly expensive given that what they do is really pretty basic stuff 90% of the time. I'd love to be able to afford to buy stuff new each time but then the head kicks in and I get to thinking is it really justified for the amount of usage these things would get. Perhaps if the there tools of my trade and I had my own business then I could justify the money. For the same amount of money I think I could get so many pieces of equipment secondhand that are still potent bits of kit and that way extend my capabilities even further, more bang per buck factor.

I'm looking for something that does multiple measurements at the same time, as this saves buying yet another meter, has LabView integration for automated testing and logging, is 5 1/2 digits or better and of a somewhat reputable make. I think I would prefer 6 1/2 digits, so it can function as a reference for other gear.

I'm willing to forego the reference idea if all the other conditions are met. Like you say, somehow the meter market is densely packed with nothing interesting near the bottom and a relatively expensive top. Though I must admit I don't need a bench meter right this moment. I could hold out and go for a Maynuo load first, as power supply efficiency testing would be the first task at hand for whatever device I end up buying. Obviously, a load is more specifically suited for this job, but a multimeter would be more versatile later on.

[Specmaster]

Are you involved in some form of production and testing of loads of identical items, such as electronic sub assemblies etc then? I'm asking because I'm curious why you need labview and also automated testing and data logging. I think my Fluke 8505A can do that, I'm too sure about Labview working it though, but I know that it can be programmed via a computer program, offsets can stored like max and min values and then when testing it will report back one of three conditions, LOW, HIGH or PASS etc, is this the sort of thing you're looking for?

All the meters I've looked that can do two measurements at the same tend to towards the middle to top of meter class world and the prices reflect this as well. Most of the ones I;ve seen can only do 2 displays simultaneously of related things, like ACV and frequency otherwise they require additional leads etc to accommodate being connected to 2 or test points. Personally I like to use separate meters for each function then you have no compromises being made.

[Mr. Scram]

Are you involved in some form of production and testing of loads of identical items, such as electronic sub assemblies etc then? I'm asking because I'm curious why you need labview and also automated testing and data logging. I think my Fluke 8505A can do that, I'm too sure about Labview working it though, but I know that it can be programmed via a computer program, offsets can stored like max and min values and then when testing it will report back one of three conditions, LOW, HIGH or PASS etc, is this the sort of thing you're looking for?

All the meters I've looked that can do two measurements at the same tend to towards the middle to top of meter class world and the prices reflect this as well. Most of the ones I;ve seen can only do 2 displays simultaneously of related things, like ACV and frequency otherwise they require additional leads etc to accommodate being connected to 2 or test points. Personally I like to use separate meters for each function then you have no compromises being made.

Well, there's needing it and there's it being convenient. Even though I'm just tinkering at the moment, I like to take an organised approach. This means reproducible testing. The current project is developing a switching converter. Just characterizing that is worth automating the process. Obviously, the ability to test changes to the design without having to do the whole thing manually yet again is also an advantage. I'm not sure about LabView just yet, but automation is a given, and if something is compatible with LabView it's generally compatible with everything else.

Depending on how things go, I might get a bit more serious about electronics. The biggest hurdle seems to be compliance and liability, frustratingly enough.

[tautech]

Are you involved in some form of production and testing of loads of identical items, such as electronic sub assemblies etc then? I'm asking because I'm curious why you need labview and also automated testing and data logging. I think my Fluke 8505A can do that, I'm too sure about Labview working it though, but I know that it can be programmed via a computer program, offsets can stored like max and min values and then when testing it will report back one of three conditions, LOW, HIGH or PASS etc, is this the sort of thing you're looking for?

All the meters I've looked that can do two measurements at the same tend to towards the middle to top of meter class world and the prices reflect this as well. Most of the ones I;ve seen can only do 2 displays simultaneously of related things, like ACV and frequency otherwise they require additional leads etc to accommodate being connected to 2 or test points. Personally I like to use separate meters for each function then you have no compromises being made.

Well, there's needing it and there's it being convenient. Even though I'm just tinkering at the moment, I like to take an organised approach. This means reproducible testing. The current project is developing a switching converter. Just characterizing that is worth automating the process. Obviously, the ability to test changes to the design without having to do the whole thing manually yet again is also an advantage. I'm not sure about LabView just yet, but automation is a given, and if something is compatible with LabView it's generally compatible with everything else.

Depending on how things go, I might get a bit more serious about electronics. The biggest hurdle seems to be compliance and liability, frustratingly enough.

I'm upgrading my SDM3065X demo and getting one with the factory installed 16ch scanner card option so keep an eye on the SDM3000X thread as I'll be posting some stuff about it there after I get to grips with it.
More about its capabilities here:
http://www.siglentamerica.com/prodcut-fj.aspx?id=5211&tid=37&T=2

[orin]

If you're going to go for a universal counter, watch out for the HP 5315/5316 units. They're pretty good, don't take a lot of space and are very quiet and reliable.

I was eyeing a nice unit, but I let it go because it didn't have any connectivity options. GBIP is available on one of the units you mention, but a bit of a hassle to actually run and doesn't come quite cheap either. As I've said elsewhere, to me it's a "nice to have" and not worth spending stupid money on. The nice models all seem ridiculously expensive. Thanks for the suggestion though, I don't think I've looked at those two models before.

I'm still on the fence about a Rigol DM30X8 multimeter. It should do everything I need, though somehow it doesn't quite feel like the quality mainstay meter I'm after. Then again, they're good enough for Shahriar, so maybe I shouldn't be so pretentious.

Hers an interesting fact about Rigol, in the calibration document for their meters they actually state that you need a Fluke 5520A ti do the calibration with. Most other makers state that you need their own meters etc in order to carry out a full calibration.

No real surprise there.  Agilent/Keysight use Fluke 5720A and 5725As to calibrate the 34461A, at least on the original certificate and a calibration done in 2017.

[bd139]

The cal cert on my Keysight U1241C mentions fluke

I wouldn’t go near the Rigol to be honest. It’s ok to cheap out on non critical imprecise measurement devices I.e. scopes etc but for absolute precision measurements, pay the money. I found GW Instek and Keysight mid range to be good enough for me.

[URI]

If you're going to go for a universal counter, watch out for the HP 5315/5316 units. They're pretty good, don't take a lot of space and are very quiet and reliable.

Let me throw the Philips PM6685 (one channel) and PM6680 (two channels) in.   

I have them both and do really like (and therefore use) them¹⁾.

Some pros and cons (the selection is completely subjective and therefore incomplete):
+ They measure frequency to 300MHz/225MHz (100MHz on the 2nd channel) and give you 10 Digits at 2 measurements/sec.
+ GHz-input (several different options) available as options -there are Polish and Chinese vendors offering 3rd party kits at affordable prices that have overall good reputation (don't have one myself).
+ They have no potentiometer on their user interface as it is fully controlled via push buttons.
neutral to - They can be fully controlled over GPIB if equipped with (the PM6680 more often than the PM6685).
edit: According to their data sheet the HP 5315/5316 are generally equipped with GPIB.
- A downside -the standard oscillator and the next grade, the TCXO are too poor for taking advantage of the 10 digits resolution, but:
neutral The PM6685/6680-family is equipped with a 10MHz reference input. So one can take advantage of a GPSDO..   
edit: I just noticed the HP 5316 also has a refence input..
+ Refitting a selfmade OCXO-module also isn't too complicated because these counters simply offer oven supply and reference input on a pin header and the service manual is available. 
+ The PM6680 compares well to Agilent 53131A -in some aspects it is better -so TEA isn't really triggering me to get a 53131A -and the 53131A goes for more than the PM6680 in general. 
- OK, looking at the form factor the goal goes to the HP 5315/5316 as the PM6685/6680 is only two rack units high but 395 mm (15.6 in) deep.

Fluke sold the PM6685 under its name and the PM6680 as PM6680B (haven't seen differences between it and the Philips PM6680) and an improved version with 11 digits resolution -the PM6681.

Footnote:
¹⁾ -BTW, a PM6681 will hopefully be delivered (undamaged! -fingers crossed) to me in the next week.
I'm curious how they managed to give the user 11 digits. As far as I know they use the same 10 digits display like in the PM6680/B. 
Perhaps it'll give the 11 digits resolution only over GPIB -would be OK for me because I want to use it to make long time measurements using a raspberry pi as command station.

[URI]

I mounted the first four storage cabinets with 198 push trays into a wooden rack I built from cheap glulam plates:


Plenty of space for all the parts in uncounted bags in hidden corners and the small parts currently populating my bench. 

I'm working step by step on rebuilding my bench console -first step: making room for storing things blocking my bench that has to be clean and tidy to be rebuilt. 

Sorry for the poor image quality -the light was low and I have such an extreme wide angle lens only on a smart phones camera. 

[Specmaster]

Looking very nice indeed, the camera explains the curved look to the cabinets.

Going to take ages labelling up each drawer though 

[guido]

Let me throw the Philips PM6685 (one channel) and PM6680 (two channels) in.   

Some pros and cons (the selection is completely subjective and therefore incomplete):
+ .....

You forgot the biggest pro...  You can use the 6680 with Timelab 

[glarsson]

Fluke sold the PM6685 under its name and the PM6680 as PM6680B (haven't seen differences between it and the Philips PM6680) and an improved version with 11 digits resolution -the PM6681.

Fluke also sold the Pendulum CNT-90 as PM6690. Nice and fast 12 digit counter.

[bitseeker]

Yeah, the C versions are better, but for the price I couldn't hold out.

I just realized the B version doesn't do ESR.

Correct. The C version does. It's odd it took them that long to add it. You can get one of the myriad "$20" component testers for ESR, unless you need high accuracy for verifying components. I just check ESR for pass/fail on old gear.

[Berni]

I think my HP 8566B spectrum analyzer is haunted.

Out of nowhere the fan on it started running. At first i thought it was a noise from outside but it didn't quite sound like it so i started looking around, narrowed it down to my test equipment rack. Nothing seamed to be turned on in there. I was half suspecting one of my Gigatronics RF synthesizers since that one always had a bit of a dicky power switch. Nope that one is off. Eventually i noticed that there is a bit of a breeze coming out around the buttons around my HP 8566B (Its normal, the inward facing fan in there is a beast). Tho none of the LEDs or the display was showing anything. I tried flicking the power switch back and forth and it didn't seam to do anything. Seeing something is seriously wrong here i disconnected the power to the rack, waited a bit and gave it power again. Seamed fine at first but then after a second or two the fan in my HP started going again and was once again not responding to the power switch.

Looks like i will need to dig out the service manuals for the thing again. These things do have a bit of a reputation for bad capacitors and this one still has the original ones in it. The last time i was repairing it the caps in the involved area seamed to be fine so i left them as is.

[URI]

I think my HP 8566B spectrum analyzer is haunted.

Out of nowhere the fan on it started running. [..]

Hey, Halloween is over!   

[URI]

Let me throw the Philips PM6685 (one channel) and PM6680 (two channels) in.   

Some pros and cons (the selection is completely subjective and therefore incomplete):
+ .....

You forgot the biggest pro...  You can use the 6680 with Timelab 

D*mn! I wanted to replace my PM6680 with the PM6681.
The Timelab manual only mentions the PM6680 -will I have to keep it?!      

[bitseeker]

Yep, sounds like you need both.

[HalFET]

Yep, sounds like you need both.

Might want a caesium beam standard as reference for them as well.

[Zucca]

I don't remember the name, there was a chemical  which has a small little brush to apply on cracked ABS. It will melt the two edge and the crack disappears. Didn't know about this ABS cement will try it on this fume extractor may be.

This: Tamiya Extra Thin Cement

https://www.amazon.com/Tamiya-87038-Extra-Thin-Cement/dp/B000BMYWYC

[Mr. Scram]

eBay is at it again. An ad clearly describes shipping elsewhere. As soon as I actually try to make the bid, it tells me "no can't do, no shipping to other countries". Why doesn't it tell you that in advance? There's apparently no way to test whether this happens, other than committing to a purchase.

All these quirks are becoming rather tiresome.

[bd139]

I've had that a few times. It's a total ball ache.

[Specmaster]

I only experienced it the other day, I wasn't too bothered though as I shouldn't have bid in the first place, couldn't really afford it if I won it 

[HalFET]

Did it again...
Keithley 194 highspeed volt meter for 60 European buckeroos.

[bd139]

 

Got my eye on something ending tonight

[Mr. Scram]

Got my eye on something ending tonight

Me too, though I have been going back and forth about buying it.