Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[Specmaster]

I think it is moisture that has crept in over a long period of rest on a shelf where the unit has not been used for a while. This could be due either the casing suffering a degradation over a period of time due the heating / cooling effect normal switching ON/OFF cycles that causes the casing to either crack and allow moisture in that or it gets to become porous through microscopic holes developing in the case as it ages and the heating effects.

[mnementh]

So a combination of the two then.

Failure of the envelope COULD be cured with better polymers, and electro-thermal breakdown could be addressed with polymer electrolytes. Though current Kemet product doesn't APPEAR  to have the latter... It's possible they're better.

One of those that's 50% "Time will tell" and 50% "How long will the manufacturer drag it out before actually DOING something" I'll wager. 

mnem
*At-the-Park-ily*

[tautech]

Most distressing was a Kenwood Chef while the missus was on a Christmas cake binge. 

Ooh we've got one of them and it hasn't blown up yet. Might take it to bits and exorcise the bastard.

IIRC it was just a single RIFA cap of the translucent case variety not a mains filter assembly.
Might've been in a snubber circuit, I honestly can't remember. 
It's slowly coming back......from memory it lost speed control and went into warp #10 operation spewing smoke all the while. 
Easy fix but you wouldn't want it running like that for too long as it was heaps faster than normal full speed operation........cooking motor and mix in one pass ! 

BTW White and brown trim model KW Chef.

[tautech]

So a combination of the two then.

Failure of the envelope COULD be cured with better polymers, and electro-thermal breakdown could be addressed with polymer electrolytes. Though current Kemet product doesn't APPEAR  to have the latter... It's possible they're better.

One of those that's 50% "Time will tell" and 50% "How long will the manufacturer drag it out before actually DOING something" I'll wager. 

mnem
*At-the-Park-ily*

Only rule:
If it's a translucent enclosure be wary/warned.

[Specmaster]

So a combination of the two then.

Failure of the envelope COULD be cured with better polymers, and electro-thermal breakdown could be addressed with polymer electrolytes. Though current Kemet product doesn't APPEAR  to have the latter... It's possible they're better.

One of those that's 50% "Time will tell" and 50% "How long will the manufacturer drag it out before actually DOING something" I'll wager. 

mnem
*At-the-Park-ily*

Only rule:
If it's a translucent enclosure be wary/warned.

Yes, its always those type that have failed on me as well.

[Cerebus]

Only rule:
If it's a translucent enclosure be wary/warned.

I agree. All the ones I've seen do the flaming fandango have been beige-ish translucent, almost transparent, plastic.

[tautech]

Only rule:
If it's a translucent enclosure be wary/warned.

I agree. All the ones I've seen do the flaming fandango have been beige-ish translucent, almost transparent, plastic.

Yep so with a fairly high degree of certainty we know the hermetically sealed case fails and in the case (excuse pun  ) of these translucent ones (2nd pun omitted) can be easily identified by 'crazing' or fine cracking of the enclosure. They'll often be crazed for some length of time but once the cracks manifest themselves all the way through it's only a matter of time before ..... BANG !

[bd139]

Yep. Before they pop the plastic case seems to have cracks/stress marks on it. My 3478A has the symptoms so it's being sorted (tomorrow if CPC turns up!)

Schaffner mains filters are bastards too. I was in an office when one of them went off. Fireballs, the lot.

[Specmaster]

Rule of thumb is to inspect them before powering up, any sign of distress, no matter how small it is, replace them without undue delay, especially if the equipment could be left connected and unattended at anytime.

[GerryBags]

I have a couple of unused ones that I got along with a load of bits as a job lot. The plastic envelopes seem less yellowed than the ones that came out of the scope, but that could be down to batches. I can't see a date code on them, but they're Rifas rather than Kemet, so older than that deal. If it wasn't a complete impossibility I'd say that the nicotine yellowing looks like many of the old polymers do after a few years of UV bombardment. Perhaps heating and cooling cycles have a similar effect on the plastic as UV, making it moisture-permeable.

For folks who cycle through a lot of old electronic gear, maybe some Heath-Robinson combo of an enclosed 19" rack hooked up to a dehumidifier, or fed with air that has been dried by passing it through a perlite/vermiculite filter, while the power is gradually increased with a variac might help not only with moisture in old caps, but in resistors too? For first time power-ups, I mean.

[ChrisLX200]

I spent the entire evening attempting to connect my instruments (7 of them) to the 'shop Windows machine. Finally sorted the last one - the TTi QL355TP was a real pig because the string descriptors in the *.inf were wrong. Easy fix when you know that's the issue, not so easy when Windows refuses to install drivers and neglects to say why.. 

[bd139]

I spent the entire evening attempting to connect my instruments (7 of them) to the 'shop Windows machine. Finally sorted the last one - the TTi QL355TP was a real pig because the string descriptors in the *.inf were wrong. Easy fix when you know that's the issue, not so easy when Windows refuses to install drivers and neglects to say why.. 

Oh that pile of fun. Been there.

If you think that's bad, try OSX with a TTi TF930. You can specify the UID/VID in the plist for the driver but the moment you do that, it breaks the signing key so the driver won't load it. The only option is to boot the machine insecure. Fun fun fun.

On Linux, plugged it in, ooh serial port. Done. Same with keysight U1241C.

Windows was a pig too but not as bad as OSX.

Edit: oops have I started another OS war? 

[bd139]

I have a couple of unused ones that I got along with a load of bits as a job lot. The plastic envelopes seem less yellowed than the ones that came out of the scope, but that could be down to batches. I can't see a date code on them, but they're Rifas rather than Kemet, so older than that deal. If it wasn't a complete impossibility I'd say that the nicotine yellowing looks like many of the old polymers do after a few years of UV bombardment. Perhaps heating and cooling cycles have a similar effect on the plastic as UV, making it moisture-permeable.

For folks who cycle through a lot of old electronic gear, maybe some Heath-Robinson combo of an enclosed 19" rack hooked up to a dehumidifier, or fed with air that has been dried by passing it through a perlite/vermiculite filter, while the power is gradually increased with a variac might help not only with moisture in old caps, but in resistors too? For first time power-ups, I mean.

I have some new Kemet ones here. They're more a grey than a yellow. Wonder if it's a different plastic. I remember the old RIFA ones were yellowish when new.

[Specmaster]

I spent the entire evening attempting to connect my instruments (7 of them) to the 'shop Windows machine. Finally sorted the last one - the TTi QL355TP was a real pig because the string descriptors in the *.inf were wrong. Easy fix when you know that's the issue, not so easy when Windows refuses to install drivers and neglects to say why.. 

Oh that pile of fun. Been there.

If you think that's bad, try OSX with a TTi TF930. You can specify the UID/VID in the plist for the driver but the moment you do that, it breaks the signing key so the driver won't load it. The only option is to boot the machine insecure. Fun fun fun.

On Linux, plugged it in, ooh serial port. Done. Same with keysight U1241C.

Windows was a pig too but not as bad as OSX.

Edit: oops have I started another OS war? 

Maybe you'll get banned 

No I don't think so because it very clearly is TEA related.

[tautech]

I have a couple of unused ones that I got along with a load of bits as a job lot. The plastic envelopes seem less yellowed than the ones that came out of the scope, but that could be down to batches. I can't see a date code on them, but they're Rifas rather than Kemet, so older than that deal. If it wasn't a complete impossibility I'd say that the nicotine yellowing looks like many of the old polymers do after a few years of UV bombardment. Perhaps heating and cooling cycles have a similar effect on the plastic as UV, making it moisture-permeable.

For folks who cycle through a lot of old electronic gear, maybe some Heath-Robinson combo of an enclosed 19" rack hooked up to a dehumidifier, or fed with air that has been dried by passing it through a perlite/vermiculite filter, while the power is gradually increased with a variac might help not only with moisture in old caps, but in resistors too? For first time power-ups, I mean.

I have some new Kemet ones here. They're more a grey than a yellow. Wonder if it's a different plastic. I remember the old RIFA ones were yellowish when new.

Isn't that 'yellow' just the potting compound ?

[Neomys Sapiens]

If I needed proof of the severity of my TEA, I got it. Our technicians wanted to purchase a test instrument - and what happened: our purchasing guy called me and asked if they could rent it from me for a fee + calibration. Unfortunately, I do not have it - it was about an Anritsu Sitemaster.  But that he even asked!
For a short moment, I felt tempted to aquire one. (slapping my hand with the Digikey PCB ruler)

But I might have a PQ analyzer soon.
Rifling through Ebay, I saw a BMI8800 Powerscope with manual, carrying case, and current clamp. Unit reportedly in working condition.
I was not actively searching for one, but I had already made a mental mark to find out on occasion which makes and models support 400Hz, as this is a conceivable need of mine. Sometimes I pity those sellers. 27.- (yes, you got me right - no digit missing!) including freight must make someone weep. At this point, I am always fervently hoping that the guy is a fair player and that nothing unfortunate happens to the poor thing right after. What could I do? I was prepared for a bit more, but that is where it stopped. Well, at least it will find a nice place with lots of TE for company. I could not have let the poor thing out there.

It looks definitely more capable than my Cole T1007, for which I still have no manual. There was one of them too (with manual), but that has lost it's appeal now - except if the BMI should turn out to be DOA. Ok, not exactly modern, as one can deduce from the 3.5" drive, but capable. It even detects waveform violations as a event category independent from voltage, frequency, and spikes. I am looking forward to play around with and see what it finds.
BTW, has anyone here any experience with that beast?

And again, a request for help from fellow addicts: could one of the colleagues from the UK spare two 0.25A 5x15mm(2AG) fuses? They are a pain in the rear to get here, because the only distributor with whom I regularly order does not list them. As they are used in that Cole T1007 and I only found them in the UK, I think they are as british as mint cake.

And the other way round: is anyone of you interested in a Philips PM3088 with aquisition error on channel B and slightly corroded battery contacts? It is the early flatscreen (plasma) DSO with the svivelling display,
100MHz 40Ms/s and IEC bus + RS232 - but a bit on the heavy side to carry around. I do not see myself finding the time to get it up and running again. There was a seemingly identical device named Trace 8608,
for which I have the german user's manual and english programming manual, but I am totally unclear whether 'Trace' (no other info on this company) were the original developers or just a reseller. So if anyone from this bunch gets the hots for it, let me know before I offer it elsewhere.
 

[Specmaster]

My new meter was collected at 15:00 in Leeds yesterday and arrived here at 04:00, now lets see how long it takes to complete the last couple of miles of its journey and if it made it in one piece 

[bd139]

Fingers crossed for you. I just got battery and capacitors for mine. Don’t ever bother paying CPC for next day delivery. Free delivery always seems to turn up next day

Surgery commencing shortly. Will I destroy the cal RAM. Only time will tell.   

[Specmaster]

Waiting and watching with baited breathe because I'll be treading the same path soon so I can from you on this one as I've never attempted to replace a battery used to retain vital information (other then a button cell on a MB) before.

[bd139]

Yeah same here. Am knocking up a temporary pack now (soldering two AA’s together

[Specmaster]

Yeah same here. Am knocking up a temporary pack now (soldering two AA’s together

Just ordered a double AA battery case with switch and long leads for my surgery, haven't ordered the filter caps yet, thought I'd wait till I've seen them, with a bit of luck they may already have been replaced 

[tautech]

Yeah same here. Am knocking up a temporary pack now (soldering two AA’s together

Just ordered a double AA battery case with switch and long leads for my surgery, haven't ordered the filter caps yet, thought I'd wait till I've seen them, with a bit of luck they may already have been replaced 

I'm with the solder the buggers as the risk is not worth taking for the cost of a pair of AA's that'll go in the bin after.
You can be too Scot's.....says the 1/4 Scot !

[bd139]

Yep if I drop a shit battery holder or there is a hooky connection then I'm going to have to recal. 2xAA +1n5711 is a good sacrifice

[tautech]

Yep if I drop a shit battery holder or there is a hooky connection then I'm going to have to recal. 2xAA +1n5711 is a good sacrifice

Using that flash new iron the Spec put you onto ?

[bd139]

No still using the Weller as I can't find a stand I like for the T12 yet. One day!

One battery pack with built in diode!



Going for a wee before I start this one