Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 756172 times)

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Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16550 on: September 20, 2018, 08:20:52 am »

I believe we need to declare war on 9V batteries; let them die like those stupid 15V 411/208 cells. No, actually, we need to kill them OFF. I tried to buy one for my DE-5000, and all I could find at Squalid-Mart was a 4-pack for $14-effing dollars.  |O

mnem
"Squalid-Mart: Help spread the squalor around."

OK...so you won't need to buy any for a while. Now quit your fussing and on with the demo.  :-DD
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16551 on: September 20, 2018, 08:26:49 am »
I believe we need to declare war on 9V batteries; let them die like those stupid 15V 411/208 cells. No, actually, we need to kill them OFF. I tried to buy one for my DE-5000, and all I could find at Squalid-Mart was a 4-pack for $14-effing dollars.  |O

I rather like 9V batteries. Two or four of them taped together make a great quiet floating supply for small analogue circuits, either ad-hoc ones or more permanent ones.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline bd139

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16552 on: September 20, 2018, 08:58:48 am »
They are rather good things. I use quite a few of them dotted around to run little boards that do things.

By coincidence, here's one of the things that usually gets one. It's another "fuck it lets build some test gear" moment. I blew up my power meter earlier. This was the W7ZOI power meter depicted many pages back which was basically an AD8307 log amp with some support circuitry. Very useful bit of test gear that for RF-ey type things. Tends to get used as a power sensor for filter sweeps and with the return loss bridge I made earlier etc. Unfortunately I can't work out what is toasted in this one as the thing is a rat's nest.

So I looked at paying some money for one, then remembered all the poor orphaned HP power meter units lacking sensors, then found Keysight want your spinal cord as payment for a decent one.

Thus, bugger it and back to cheap-land. So I just spent 3 hours in Kicad 5, which incidentally rocks and knocked up a completely SMD board for it that will fit in a suitably poor mans Hammond box rather than a rich person's Pomona box. Plus Kicad has a ray tracer now which makes your shitty boards look sexy:



Some odd choices of components like a massive 1A reg as it mostly consists of what I already had lying around. L1 is actually a small loop of wire.

Hopefully I haen't screwed this board up like the last two. I will publish this on OSHpark if it isn't a complete cock up with some instructions.

Also, I EFFING LOVE SMD. Especially those little SOT-23-5 opamps you can whizz the pins anywhere you want. The whole board is actually single sided really with double sided stitched ground plane with no routing difficulties and no bloody TH pins to get in the way. I am going to chuck all my TH components I think. Don't ever touch them these days and they take up more room.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 09:03:18 am by bd139 »
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16553 on: September 20, 2018, 09:48:50 am »
I rather like 9V batteries. Two or four of them taped together make a great quiet floating supply for small analogue circuits, either ad-hoc ones or more permanent ones.
There's very little power in them, though. A few AA or even AAAs will last you a lot longer.
 

Offline Cerebus

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16554 on: September 20, 2018, 10:21:22 am »
I rather like 9V batteries. Two or four of them taped together make a great quiet floating supply for small analogue circuits, either ad-hoc ones or more permanent ones.
There's very little power in them, though. A few AA or even AAAs will last you a lot longer.

Try getting a ±15V or ±18V supply out of them, that would be 20 or 24 of the little sods. Much easier to accept that you're only going to get a few hours or tens of hours out of 9V batteries rather than run up a battery pack that's going to weight over a pound and require a lot of jiggling to put together.

Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16555 on: September 20, 2018, 10:38:58 am »
Try getting a ±15V or ±18V supply out of them, that would be 20 or 24 of the little sods. Much easier to accept that you're only going to get a few hours or tens of hours out of 9V batteries rather than run up a battery pack that's going to weight over a pound and require a lot of jiggling to put together.
Yes, fair game. It does depend on the application and whether you're going to power op-amps or not. For TTL they don't make a lot of sense.
 

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16556 on: September 20, 2018, 10:41:14 am »
I like them for analog stuff like low noise amps or even HV power supplies for tube noise sources.

See here:

https://electronicprojectsforfun.wordpress.com/power-supplies/battery-operated-power-supplies/a-120v-40ma-battery-operated-power-supply/
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16557 on: September 20, 2018, 10:52:20 am »
I like them for analog stuff like low noise amps or even HV power supplies for tube noise sources.

See here:

https://electronicprojectsforfun.wordpress.com/power-supplies/battery-operated-power-supplies/a-120v-40ma-battery-operated-power-supply/
That looks great. I like the printed battery tray. Maybe it'd help you to sprinkle some fillets around. It should make your parts much more robust at virtually no cost.
 

Offline Wolfgang

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16558 on: September 20, 2018, 11:05:27 am »
Hi, I saved on material because it went to an external 3D print shop and also to minimize warping.
The part is made from ABS and quite sturdy as it is.
The next version will have a fuse and some mini PCBs with 6.3mm terminals.
I also thought of a neon indicator and a pushbutton to check if it is still charged - maybe overengineering.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16559 on: September 20, 2018, 11:47:09 am »
Hi, I saved on material because it went to an external 3D print shop and also to minimize warping.
The part is made from ABS and quite sturdy as it is.
The next version will have a fuse and some mini PCBs with 6.3mm terminals.
I also thought of a neon indicator and a pushbutton to check if it is still charged - maybe overengineering.
Technically fillets allow you to save material, as a thinner part will be equally sturdy. :)
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16560 on: September 20, 2018, 12:28:21 pm »
I believe we need to declare war on 9V batteries; let them die like those stupid 15V 411/208 cells. No, actually, we need to kill them OFF. I tried to buy one for my DE-5000, and all I could find at Squalid-Mart was a 4-pack for $14-effing dollars.  |O

mnem

Few years ago when I was torn between DE-5000 vs MS5308 (both use identical chip sets), decided to skip DE-5000 because of that evil 9V cell, hate it so much. Also the MS5308 has much larger LCD that put much less stress to my aging eyes. Never regret the decision and its happily powered by LSD cells that took me only once to recharge at moderate used for the last 3 years.

 

Offline VK5RC

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16561 on: September 20, 2018, 01:13:22 pm »
Slight 9v fan here also, never had one s**t itself inside test equipment, unlike every other cell type!
Just repacked the rechargeable pack for my trusty old HP 45 calculator, (used eneloops).
Can anyone explain why how most modern equipment has cr*p button feel compared to late 1960s stuff?
Whoah! Watch where that landed we might need it later.
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16562 on: September 20, 2018, 01:46:36 pm »
Slight 9v fan here also, never had one s**t itself inside test equipment, unlike every other cell type!
Just repacked the rechargeable pack for my trusty old HP 45 calculator, (used eneloops).
Can anyone explain why how most modern equipment has cr*p button feel compared to late 1960s stuff?
Today's items tend to be commodity items, while the stuff back then was more expensive. There's also survivor bias. The better stuff is more likely to have survived.
 

Offline GregDunn

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16563 on: September 20, 2018, 02:09:12 pm »
The early HP calcs had extremely close attention paid to the feel of the buttons - The fit/finish was nearly as important to the company as the accuracy and speed of the calculator itself.

Remember, the HP45 on introduction was $395 - about 2 months' rent on an apartment (I can confirm that) or about 2 weeks' salary for a newly employed engineer.  At that cost, it darn well better have been a quality product.  ;D  My HP-35 is still ticking along nicely, though I haven't bothered to put new batteries in it; on the occasions I take it out of its case and fire it up, I just use the AC adapter.
 

Offline mnementh

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16564 on: September 20, 2018, 02:35:57 pm »
I believe we need to declare war on 9V batteries; let them die like those stupid 15V 411/208 cells. No, actually, we need to kill them OFF. I tried to buy one for my DE-5000, and all I could find at Squalid-Mart was a 4-pack for $14-effing dollars.  |O

mnem
"Squalid-Mart: Help spread the squalor around."
I was beginning to wonder why we had not seen anything about your DE-5000, no fecking power man. You can't ban 9v batteries, how the feck will I power up my Fluke 27's and my 2 chinese component testers etc NNNNoooooooooooooooooooo
You've had your warning. Go buy a good stock of Lixx 9V batteries off AliEx now!!!  We're coming for you, and your little 9Vs too!!! :-DD
OK...so you won't need to buy any for a while. Now quit your fussing and on with the demo.  :-DD



I actually have a shitload of pics I'm going through right now because like Dave, I didn't turn it on; I took it apart while I was waiting for my wife to come home with a dead battery.  :-+  Here's one showing the eeebil 9V battery and all the effing WASTED SPACE that COULD have been used for civilized AA cells or better yet, 18650s.

I rather like 9V batteries. Two or four of them taped together make a great quiet floating supply for small analogue circuits, either ad-hoc ones or more permanent ones.
There's very little power in them, though. A few AA or even AAAs will last you a lot longer.
Try getting a ±15V or ±18V supply out of them, that would be 20 or 24 of the little sods. Much easier to accept that you're only going to get a few hours or tens of hours out of 9V batteries rather than run up a battery pack that's going to weight over a pound and require a lot of jiggling to put together.



I haven't used a 9V battery in DECADES that I wasn't FORCED to use by some BLEEEP!ing throwback retro-genitive piece of  BLEEPITY-BLEEP!!! equipment.  For random temporary circuits, I've used tore apart laptop packs and/or LiPo packs from my RC equipment. Any one of those pairs of cells in that plastic box will provide a usable 8V for much longer than any 9V battery, including the two AA-size 800mAH 14500 cells. If I need more than that, the 6-cell drill pack there costs all of $10 at bLowes, has convenient tabs at 4,8,12,16,20 & 24V, AND has built-in balance charging & power gauge. Plus I can charge it in 30 minutes. And I never have less than 2 or 3 of them lying around. How many effing volts did you need?  ALL OF THEM?!? Right now I have 120V worth of those packs right at hand... :-DD :-DD

The "need" for a 9V battery is usually just lazy circuit design; nearly any circuit that'll run on a 9V will run on the 7.4-7.6V nominal of two common Lixx cells. It's only the fact that some folks design their low-voltage shutoffs higher (even though they shouldn't; a 9V battery's life isn't supposed to be over til it drops below 5V) that make a 9V necessary for most equipment that uses it.

Oh, and there's some red in my meter bank  :bullshit: :bullshit: :bullshit:, just for Specmaster. ;)

@BravoV - I liked the LOOK of that Mastech unit, but the ~$170 price was more than I could justify for the amount I'll use it. Also, it would require a COMPLETE redesign of my meter tree...  :P

mnem
*Gonna go bed and lie down before I fall down*



« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 02:39:40 pm by mnementh »
 

Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16565 on: September 20, 2018, 03:40:11 pm »
Geez......You're STILL fussing and we've yet to see the demo.  |O |O |O |O :-DD :palm: :-DD :-DD :-DD :blah: :blah: :blah:
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Offline bitseeker

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16566 on: September 20, 2018, 04:10:27 pm »
mnem, when you had your DE-5000 apart, did you happen to notice if it had a reverse polarity protection diode for the 9V? I believe early ones didn't and, for all of them, the battery sockets aren't polarized to prevent reverse installation.
You don't acquire TEA. It acquires you.
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16567 on: September 20, 2018, 05:28:19 pm »
Can anyone explain why how most modern equipment has cr*p button feel compared to late 1960s stuff?
Today's items tend to be commodity items, while the stuff back then was more expensive. There's also survivor bias. The better stuff is more likely to have survived.

I guess also there is no big demands now, especially for the new generation that grew up starting with crappy game controller's buttons up to current touch screen which basically their finger sensitivity can not be compared to older generations that used to type on mechanical type writer which have such a wide dynamic range of sensitivities.

Anyone remember how it feel like by soft touch at the left shift button to disengage the capslock latch and can feel the faint soft click ? While at the same time the whole 10 fingers capable of sensing and pushing hard enough to get the consistent darkness when the ink was drying up at the ribbon. Youngster these days will never get this, its like they have 10 dumb n numb rods at their palm.  :-DD
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 05:30:17 pm by BravoV »
 

Offline Mr. Scram

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16568 on: September 20, 2018, 05:48:15 pm »
I guess also there is no big demands now, especially for the new generation that grew up starting with crappy game controller's buttons up to current touch screen which basically their finger sensitivity can not be compared to older generations that used to type on mechanical type writer which have such a wide dynamic range of sensitivities.

Anyone remember how it feel like by soft touch at the left shift button to disengage the capslock latch and can feel the faint soft click ? While at the same time the whole 10 fingers capable of sensing and pushing hard enough to get the consistent darkness when the ink was drying up at the ribbon. Youngster these days will never get this, its like they have 10 dumb n numb rods at their palm.  :-DD
Put that fist away, grandpa. ;D Mechanical keyboards are sold in bigger numbers than they ever have been and youngsters are a big part of that. We should rejoice that we have both $10 and quality keyboards.
 

Offline BravoV

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16569 on: September 20, 2018, 06:11:09 pm »
I guess also there is no big demands now, especially for the new generation that grew up starting with crappy game controller's buttons up to current touch screen which basically their finger sensitivity can not be compared to older generations that used to type on mechanical type writer which have such a wide dynamic range of sensitivities.

Anyone remember how it feel like by soft touch at the left shift button to disengage the capslock latch and can feel the faint soft click ? While at the same time the whole 10 fingers capable of sensing and pushing hard enough to get the consistent darkness when the ink was drying up at the ribbon. Youngster these days will never get this, its like they have 10 dumb n numb rods at their palm.  :-DD

Put that fist away, grandpa. ;D Mechanical keyboards are sold in bigger numbers than they ever have been and youngsters are a big part of that. We should rejoice that we have both $10 and quality keyboards.

Getting grumpier ... stubbornly and keep denying ... and mumbling ... ".. nothing beat buckling springs ... buckling springs .. ya hear me !!!"  :-DD
 
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Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16570 on: September 20, 2018, 06:52:29 pm »
@mnementh I find it amazing that didn't download a copy of the manual for your  DE 5000 before buying it. Then you'll have known that needed 9v and either have prepared like a boy scout should be, or looked at other meters.

I always have around 100 to 240v handy and that doesn't include 9v batteries of which I normally have 27 to 36v in my spares containers.

Just think about it, had you gone for the XJW01 then you would have done your playing around and would have presented your demo by now. And no batteries to cause these problems
Who let Murphy in?
 

Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16571 on: September 20, 2018, 07:15:42 pm »
@mnementh I find it amazing that didn't download a copy of the manual for your  DE 5000 before buying it. Then you'll have known that needed 9v and either have prepared like a boy scout should be, or looked at other meters.

I always have around 100 to 240v handy and that doesn't include 9v batteries of which I normally have 27 to 36v in my spares containers.

Just think about it, had you gone for the XJW01 then you would have done your playing around and would have presented your demo by now. And no batteries to cause these problems

Perhaps we should all chip in and buy him a few.  >:D :-DD :-DD
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Offline Specmaster

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16572 on: September 20, 2018, 07:25:34 pm »
@mnementh I find it amazing that didn't download a copy of the manual for your  DE 5000 before buying it. Then you'll have known that needed 9v and either have prepared like a boy scout should be, or looked at other meters.

I always have around 100 to 240v handy and that doesn't include 9v batteries of which I normally have 27 to 36v in my spares containers.

Just think about it, had you gone for the XJW01 then you would have done your playing around and would have presented your demo by now. And no batteries to cause these problems

Perhaps we should all chip in and buy him a few.  >:D :-DD :-DD
You know I've had plenty of the normal single cells shit over the devices that they were supposed to be powering. But I honestly have never had a 9v battery crap it self yet on any of my equipment, I've seen some that were rusty in a piece of Heathkit gear, 9v FTW especially on small low power items that aren't going to be used that much.
« Last Edit: September 20, 2018, 08:31:00 pm by Specmaster »
Who let Murphy in?
 

Offline Cubdriver

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16573 on: September 20, 2018, 08:17:59 pm »
@mnementh I find it amazing that didn't download a copy of the manual for your  DE 5000 before buying it. Then you'll have known that needed 9v and either have prepared like a boy scout should be, or looked at other meters.

I always have around 100 to 240v handy and that doesn't include 9v batteries of which I normally have 27 to 36v in my spares containers.

Just think about it, had you gone for the XJW01 then you would have done your playing around and would have presented your demo by now. And no batteries to cause these problems

Perhaps we should all chip in and buy him a few.  >:D :-DD :-DD
You know I've had plenty of the normal single cells shit over the devices that they were supposed to be powering. But I honestly have had a 9v battery crap it self yet on any of my equipment, I've seen some that were rusty in a piece of Heathkit gear, 9v FTW especially on small low power items that aren't going to be used that much.

I suspect that's because they're typically made up of cells within the outer case, rather than the outer case directly containing the chemicals as it is with a normal AA, C or D cell.  That means that the nastiness needs to breach two barriers instead of just one before it can run amok corroding the crap out of the innards of one's precious and pricey piece of gear. This is a good thing, IMO.

-Pat
If it jams, force it.  If it breaks, you needed a new one anyway...
 

Online med6753

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Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16574 on: September 20, 2018, 08:39:25 pm »
It can happen. I did have a 9V battery leak and ruin a Fluke 77. I don't recall the brand of battery but it had to be either Duracell or Energizer.
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 


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