Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 14564446 times)

McBryce and 21 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline neo

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1694
  • Country: us
  • The specialist.
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16850 on: September 24, 2018, 08:55:03 pm »
Another brick in the wall reference then, how many of us like Pink Floyd?

One of my favorites, also up for consideration is Led Zeppelin.
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 09:00:12 pm by neo »
A hopeless addict (and slave) to TEA and a firm believer that high frequency is little more than modern hoodoo.
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23018
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16851 on: September 24, 2018, 09:23:16 pm »
I'm still sitting on the fence, waiting for the actual test results against the Atlas and the Chinese tester. I'm not convinced that it's going to be better then the XJW01 other than it does have higher frequencies if you need them which to be honest you RF guys need more than I do..... but you never know.

Now that's always an interesting point. Both the DE-5000 and XJE01 are impedance bridges. I reckon they'll come out about the same.

Some of the other meters, particularly the AADE units now no longer available as the owner popped it, use a different method of measuring inductance and capacitance. They stuff it in a resonant circuit with a reference capacitor and use it to drive an oscillator. What happens is quite sneaky. The resonant frequency is f=1/(2*pi*sqrt(L*C)). So assume a fixed C of 100pF you can derive the L relatively easy if you can measure f which is cheap with a microcontroller. Now there's a clever mathematical trick that someone came up with. If you have another random C in parallel and switch out the reference C and measure the delta of f, you can rearrange all the stuff in terms of only the reference capacitor and the differential frequency to get L out. F is derived from a crystal controlled oscillator and is good to at least 0.00001% with the crappiest of crystal and timer register and known C is usually good to 0.5% if you buy a nice silver mica cap for a couple of quid. That means you null the fixture and oscillator capacitance out as well. Like I said, very sneaky. That's probably more useful for me and is roughly what I've been doing manually with this bugger, the TF930 and excel:



reference cap is not pictured as it's not in circuit there - it usually gets wedged across the ground plane and FET coupling cap by hand. I tried making a fixture as discussed in another thread but my original protoype above worked and was finished unlike that one  :-DD
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 09:27:05 pm by bd139 »
 

Offline Johnny10

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 899
  • Country: us
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16852 on: September 24, 2018, 09:28:23 pm »
Specmaster   (Being printed in PLA at 50 microns thickness for a even higher resolution all for a total £4.25)

Was this price for 1 ?
I need 24 similar for TDS7104.
Will be following your result.
Tektronix TDS7104, DMM4050, HP 3561A, HP 35665, Tek 2465A, HP8903B, DSA602A, Tek 7854, 7834, HP3457A, Tek 575, 576, 577 Curve Tracers, Datron 4000, Datron 4000A, DOS4EVER uTracer, HP5335A, EIP534B 20GHz Frequency Counter, TrueTime Rubidium, Sencore LC102, Tek TG506, TG501, SG503, HP 8568B
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14483
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16853 on: September 24, 2018, 09:44:15 pm »
Specmaster   (Being printed in PLA at 50 microns thickness for a even higher resolution all for a total £4.25)

Was this price for 1 ?
I need 24 similar for TDS7104.
Will be following your result.
Well, I have just had an email to say that they have actually printed me 2 of these knobs for the same price of £4.25 because that way they achieve a far better finish and I shall be collecting them tomorrow morning, so thats a real result so far. I'll know more tomorrow and I'll post pics on here and my thoughts as well tomorrow.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23018
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16854 on: September 24, 2018, 10:14:02 pm »
Interested to see what comes out.

Just did my first parts order from LCSC. RS price was £42.30. LCSC £8.94 for the same parts  :-DD
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14483
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16855 on: September 24, 2018, 10:24:40 pm »
Enjoy it while we can, if we don't Brexit reversed that won't be the case then, infact our addiction is going a bloody lot more expensive.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23018
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16856 on: September 24, 2018, 10:35:33 pm »
Yes indeed although if it doubles in price it'll still be half the price of RS.

So far our government is putting this on the table: crashing currency, all EU flights cancelled, no customs in place for EU border, medicine supply problems, food supply problems, fuel supply problems, all the large companies bailing out to Europe and most importantly damn expensive test gear  :-- ... And both our leading political parties want to hammer on with this despite the vote only going 51.4% in favour and due to the age distribution of the voters, enough people have actually died to flip it the other way now  :palm: BUT SOVERINTY (misspelled intentionally). Mnementh: if you think Texas is bad...
« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 10:38:12 pm by bd139 »
 

Offline Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9810
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16857 on: September 24, 2018, 10:48:07 pm »
Interested to see what comes out.

Just did my first parts order from LCSC. RS price was £42.30. LCSC £8.94 for the same parts  :-DD
Is LCSC a trustworthy party? Original parts, not too old stock?
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23018
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16858 on: September 24, 2018, 10:53:25 pm »
About to find out. They're under the same umbrella as JLCPCB and EasyEDA. I've used JLCPCB a lot. They ship huge volumes and stock so I imagine it's pretty fresh.

I ordered Yageo R/C passives, ON/NXP/diodes inc discrete semis, microchip opamps all for production. Also picked up some Holtek regulators, some no brand MLCCs to evaluate as I'm looking at cutting costs on some of the more expensive generic parts plus with the MLCC shortage it's a PITA.

They're quite industrious at least so far!  :-DD



I imagine it looks like this inside:

« Last Edit: September 24, 2018, 10:56:31 pm by bd139 »
 

Offline mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 17541
  • Country: us
  • *Hiding in the Dwagon-Cave*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16859 on: September 25, 2018, 12:15:42 am »
It actually IS true 4-wire AT THE PANEL. Each blade is 2-sided; giving 2 contacts for shield/guard, and 1 each for signal/sense on each probe. It is ONLY the termination at the end of the wires that makes it not true 4-wire; the alligators and tweezers are where the signal/sense are tied together. It actually is a pretty clever design; the blade contacts automatically short for calibration when there's no component plugged in.

This is why I was asking.

If we design a plugin breakout board, we can make it so it ONLY uses the 4 signal/sense wires, OR we can design it so the back of the thing is a solid fill connected to the GUARD/SHIELD.

Considerations are: Common mode noise created by that large fill, random stray inductance/capacitance created in reference to the signal/sense fills, and inductance introduced by the use of vias to bring the connections from one side of the board to the other.

If we design it with ONLY the 4-wire, we can design so that there is as little covalent area between the 4 pads as possible; we can make it so that they're all on the same plane with traces to the blades as far apart as possible, and as little overlap as possible between the two sides. This will be much more difficult if we have a GUARD/SHIELD on the back side.

Each approach has pros & cons; that's why I was asking your opinion. YOU know the way you'd want to use it. ;)

Here's a quick sketch of what I was thinking for just a 4-wire board.

mnem
*Thinking too much*

That all makes sense now. Thanks for the time to explain it :)

TBH on that basis I'm happy with an out of the box fixture. The little crocodile clips are bi-wired and 4-wire so that's good enough. Rigid fixture is less important then. Probably fine above a couple of pF and a few tens of nH.

Added to the "to buy list". TBH I'd buy one now but I think I'd get shot.
   Well, fuckit then.  :-DD
https://www.ebay.com/itm/352456893391

Yes, I knew these details from prior research; it's why I was looking at the DE-5000 at its price range instead of THIS:

When I found this highly rated vendor and realized I could get the DE-5000 full kit with both 'gators AND tweezers for $88 the next time eBay put up a 15% off coupon, it shot right to the front burner.

Now I'm having the unfortunate realization that it really is a lot more machine than even I thought... damn thing may be too smart for me. ;)

Honestly... I've been good with the Atlas and a cheap Mastech MS8910 tweezer for years for most of the puttering I do. I just wanted to get into something that could reasonably accurately measure larger value SMDs; the MS8910 is just too flaky and dependent on getting JUST the right grip. And I lose about every third part I try to pick with it...  :palm:



I'm trying to figure out now how to zero the thing for accurately measuring L; as compared to this thread on measuring C. Maybe a similar jig, only with SMD-spaced steps set up with shunts?

Cheers,

mnem
*grilled cheeze time*
alt-codes work here:  alt-0128 = €  alt-156 = £  alt-0216 = Ø  alt-225 = ß  alt-230 = µ  alt-234 = Ω  alt-236 = ∞  alt-248 = °
 

Offline Carl_Smith

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 288
  • Country: us
    • MegaMicroWatt - Carl Smith's Blog
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16860 on: September 25, 2018, 12:41:29 am »
Well damn it. Did it again. Bought something I shouldn't have :scared:

Fluke 87V. New (seller says) or very lightly used (most likely) at most with full probe pack. Sticky thing still on the screen. Looks like 2017 manufacture based on the date code on the probe pack.

Sticky thing on the screen doesn't necessarily mean new or unsused.  My dad has had an 87V for years and he's never taken the factory sticky protector off.  I offered to custom cut him a real screen protector from cell phone screen protector material but he didn't seem interested.  :)


But less fire. I like fire.  :-DD
(I was the official school pyromaniac)

I know a guy who once listed "Combustion" as one of his hobbies on his resume, with no further explanation.   :)

 

Offline Carl_Smith

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 288
  • Country: us
    • MegaMicroWatt - Carl Smith's Blog
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16861 on: September 25, 2018, 01:25:37 am »
What do you guys reckon you can expect when people use the word "mint" to describe the condition of a device? What does it denote in your book?

Too bad eBay doesn't allow sales of food, because I had the idea of listing a box of Junior Mints with the title "Mint in Box Mints in box."

Offline URI

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 718
  • Country: de
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16862 on: September 25, 2018, 01:43:18 am »
I contacted Keysight using their official request form on their website.

I'm a private person.
First answer from Keysight: They ask for official documents of my company as proof before they can respond to my request.
Seems I'm in a dead lock here.   :palm:   :rant:

Out of ideas at the moment, getting to catch some hours of sleep now.
A life without TEA is possible but pointless.
 

Online xrunner

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 7499
  • Country: us
  • hp>Agilent>Keysight>???
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16863 on: September 25, 2018, 01:59:50 am »
I contacted Keysight using their official request form on their website.

I'm a private person.
First answer from Keysight: They ask for official documents of my company as proof before they can respond to my request.
Seems I'm in a dead lock here.   :palm:   :rant:

Out of ideas at the moment, getting to catch some hours of sleep now.

Yep ran into that with them ordering a simple knob. They don't seem to understand that regular schmucks like us buy their test equipment.

You might contact the Keysight rep Daniel Bogdanoff on this forum he helped me out.  :-+
I told my friends I could teach them to be funny, but they all just laughed at me.
 

Offline Cerebus

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 10576
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16864 on: September 25, 2018, 02:03:14 am »
I contacted Keysight using their official request form on their website.

I'm a private person.
First answer from Keysight: They ask for official documents of my company as proof before they can respond to my request.
Seems I'm in a dead lock here.   :palm:   :rant:

Out of ideas at the moment, getting to catch some hours of sleep now.

Ring up, keep doing the "let me talk to your supervisor" thing until you find someone with a brain then explain in words of one syllable how *^&*^ stupid this is and ask them how they are going to fix it. This kind of dumb behaviour should not be tolerated. Don't be afraid to play the "bad publicity" card as truthfully, they have already generated some for themselves. The collective EEVBlog have already shifted Keysight on two PR cockups, a third shouldn't be a problem.

I once got Tesco (large UK supermarket chain) in a tizzy by phoning their PR company up. "Hi, name here, I'm a freelancer. I just wanted to get a comment on ...". Very easy to find PR contacts if you know how to look - it just took me 20 seconds to find that Keysight's internal PR for Europe is called Sarah Calnan and she's got a Reading, UK phone number.
Anybody got a syringe I can use to squeeze the magic smoke back into this?
 

Offline tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 28142
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. Siglent Distributor NZ.
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16865 on: September 25, 2018, 02:08:18 am »
I contacted Keysight using their official request form on their website.

I'm a private person.
First answer from Keysight: They ask for official documents of my company as proof before they can respond to my request.
Seems I'm in a dead lock here.   :palm:   :rant:

Out of ideas at the moment, getting to catch some hours of sleep now.
Oh yeah, F that BS !
PM this guy:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/profile/?u=114509
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
Siglent Youtube channel: https://www.youtube.com/@SiglentVideo/videos
 

Offline mtdoc

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 3575
  • Country: us
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16866 on: September 25, 2018, 03:12:42 am »
I contacted Keysight using their official request form on their website.

I'm a private person.
First answer from Keysight: They ask for official documents of my company as proof before they can respond to my request.
Seems I'm in a dead lock here.   :palm:   :rant:

Out of ideas at the moment, getting to catch some hours of sleep now.

I had that issue ordering a new meter face from them once.  But as soon as I called them and told them I was an individual not from a company, they said no problem and sent it right off. It helps to actually speak to someone sometimes.  I'd give them a call.
 

Offline mnementh

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 17541
  • Country: us
  • *Hiding in the Dwagon-Cave*
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16867 on: September 25, 2018, 03:39:10 am »
(SNIP)
But less fire. I like fire.  :-DD
(I was the official school pyromaniac)

I know a guy who once listed "Combustion" as one of his hobbies on his resume, with no further explanation.   :)

                  "Mind If I smoke?"

mnem
*toddles off to ded*
alt-codes work here:  alt-0128 = €  alt-156 = £  alt-0216 = Ø  alt-225 = ß  alt-230 = µ  alt-234 = Ω  alt-236 = ∞  alt-248 = °
 

Offline GregDunn

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 725
  • Country: us
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16868 on: September 25, 2018, 06:07:41 am »
Fire!  FIRE!
 

Offline URI

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 718
  • Country: de
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16869 on: September 25, 2018, 06:58:51 am »
I contacted Keysight using their official request form on their website.

I'm a private person.
First answer from Keysight: They ask for official documents of my company as proof before they can respond to my request.
Seems I'm in a dead lock here.   :palm:   :rant:

Out of ideas at the moment, getting to catch some hours of sleep now.

I had that issue ordering a new meter face from them once.  But as soon as I called them and told them I was an individual not from a company, they said no problem and sent it right off. It helps to actually speak to someone sometimes.  I'd give them a call.

Thanks mtdoc, tautech, Cerebus and xrunner for your support!   :-+

My first idea was to sent them my certificate (graduate in electrical engineering, German: Diplom-Ingenieur).

But ehhh. Nonsense. |O

I decided to start with mtdocs advise of giving Keysight Germany a call.
When I told the Keysight representative that I'm a private person he answered that it's ok.
The Email I got was part of their standard procedure for requests from unknown Customers without company record.
I should answer to that email declaring I'm a private person and that would be it.   :)

I was too daunted. Am feeling better now.   :phew:
A life without TEA is possible but pointless.
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14483
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16870 on: September 25, 2018, 07:48:06 am »
I contacted Keysight using their official request form on their website.

I'm a private person.
First answer from Keysight: They ask for official documents of my company as proof before they can respond to my request.
Seems I'm in a dead lock here.   :palm:   :rant:

Out of ideas at the moment, getting to catch some hours of sleep now.

I had that issue ordering a new meter face from them once.  But as soon as I called them and told them I was an individual not from a company, they said no problem and sent it right off. It helps to actually speak to someone sometimes.  I'd give them a call.

Thanks mtdoc, tautech, Cerebus and xrunner for your support!   :-+

My first idea was to sent them my certificate (graduate in electrical engineering, German: Diplom-Ingenieur).

But ehhh. Nonsense. |O

I decided to start with mtdocs advise of giving Keysight Germany a call.
When I told the Keysight representative that I'm a private person he answered that it's ok.
The Email I got was part of their standard procedure for requests from unknown Customers without company record.
I should answer to that email declaring I'm a private person and that would be it.   :)

I was too daunted. Am feeling better now.   :phew:
Hopefully that will get resolved now for you but their first response requires modifying. Admittedly it will be companies in the main that buy their gear but not always.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23018
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16871 on: September 25, 2018, 10:55:00 am »
Some quick porns. Will reply to other threads later. Major busy today  :--

Excellent packaging. Literally the best I've ever seen. Double wall box. Totally rigid packed and wrapped with cut outs for fragile controls  :-+



Schwing



Underbelly



Too bust to stuff it in the mainframe at the moment. Unfortunately however it appears to be full of tantalum shaped wankers so I'll probably have to dig around in there before I fire it up and check for shorts. Some of them result in toasty resistors which is bad for the general health of the unit.

Edit: couldn't resist. Took covers off sides. There isn't a square cm in that which hasn't got something crammed in it.  :scared:
« Last Edit: September 25, 2018, 11:02:58 am by bd139 »
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14483
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16872 on: September 25, 2018, 11:04:46 am »
Pretty good packaging!

I think your wise to tear it down and inspect it before powering it up, if just one of treacherous tants breaks down in there, with that density of components it could be a major disaster before you know it.

It does however look to be in fair shape.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 

Offline bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 23018
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16873 on: September 25, 2018, 11:09:07 am »
Ok taken some time out to look at it. Literally the first tant I hit on the second mixer was short. This is going to be a long one.
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14483
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #16874 on: September 25, 2018, 11:11:13 am »
I didn't get my knobs this morning as planned, the printer said that he was going to be very busy today, in and out a lot that he would also kindly deliver them for me as I was local and that he would happen around 1pm today so not long to wait. He has also given me his direct email address so if anyone else wanted to make use of his services, we could contact him directly and not have to go through the agency and hence get a discount, if the quality is OK.

So once I have the knobs and if I'm happy with them, I'll post his email address up along with photos of the printed knobs and then if anyone who requires something printing could contact him directly.
Who let Murphy in?

Brymen-Fluke-HP-Thurlby-Thander-Tek-Extech-Black Star-GW-Avo-Kyoritsu-Amprobe-ITT-Robin-TTi
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf