Author Topic: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread  (Read 1374147 times)

URI, mnementh, xrunner, Cubdriver, wch, med6753 and 9 Guests are viewing this topic.

Online tautech

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 14557
  • Country: nz
  • Taupaki Technologies Ltd. NZ Siglent Distributor
    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29800 on: April 20, 2019, 05:46:02 pm »
Isn't that overshoot what we call Step Response ?

There should be instruction of how to trim it out against a suitably fast edge source.
RTFM.  ;)

If it is "step response" Tek doesn't call it that. He just demonstrated with his last post that the pre-amp section is OK and should not require any adjustments. The issue is the attenuator adjustments in the switch deck. Yes, the manual tells you how to do it but I'm warning him that there is ALOT of interaction that the manual doesn't mention and can frustrate a "first timer"  |O
OK yeah, there's no overshoot on some V/div ranges which as you say points to individual attenuation adjustments.
Could just one be possibly damaged and affect a few others ?

Yes, there is some interaction between ranges which can catch you off guard. If you make an adjustment you basically have to go back and check everything again. It can be quite tricky.  :scared:
Would you ever suspect one setting to have been damaged maybe with an over-voltage event ?
If that was the case would you check to see which setting is most effected and then check the attenuator components for accuracy before attempting to trim it out ?
Or would such an event more likely damage something else in the inputs ?
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 

Online med6753

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2681
  • Country: us
  • Tek nut
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29801 on: April 20, 2019, 06:45:51 pm »
Isn't that overshoot what we call Step Response ?

There should be instruction of how to trim it out against a suitably fast edge source.
RTFM.  ;)

If it is "step response" Tek doesn't call it that. He just demonstrated with his last post that the pre-amp section is OK and should not require any adjustments. The issue is the attenuator adjustments in the switch deck. Yes, the manual tells you how to do it but I'm warning him that there is ALOT of interaction that the manual doesn't mention and can frustrate a "first timer"  |O
OK yeah, there's no overshoot on some V/div ranges which as you say points to individual attenuation adjustments.
Could just one be possibly damaged and affect a few others ?

Yes, there is some interaction between ranges which can catch you off guard. If you make an adjustment you basically have to go back and check everything again. It can be quite tricky.  :scared:
Would you ever suspect one setting to have been damaged maybe with an over-voltage event ?
If that was the case would you check to see which setting is most effected and then check the attenuator components for accuracy before attempting to trim it out ?
Or would such an event more likely damage something else in the inputs ?

Yep, the attenuator blocks can get damaged by an overload event. Usually causes it to burn out and open up. That's one reason why I'm waiting on a 4x attenuator for a 465B. In trying to fix all the issues with it's channel 2 I discovered a partially open 4x attenuator.
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Online bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9454
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29802 on: April 20, 2019, 06:55:44 pm »
Also it appears that the thick film resistors can actually come off the substrate as well. Had one like that and no sign of burning or overload. Was just bubbly inside the attenuator module.

Edit: appears that Herpes are delivering my TF2015 signal generator today  :-+
« Last Edit: April 20, 2019, 09:01:47 pm by bd139 »
 

Offline beanflying

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2969
  • Country: au
  • Toys so very many Toys.
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29803 on: April 20, 2019, 09:07:58 pm »
Sample on the printer. Few more parts than might seem needed but it makes the printing much more simple without needing supports.

Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order :)
 
The following users thanked this post: mnementh

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6598
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29804 on: April 20, 2019, 09:10:12 pm »
Also it appears that the thick film resistors can actually come off the substrate as well. Had one like that and no sign of burning or overload. Was just bubbly inside the attenuator module.

Edit: appears that Herpes are delivering my TF2015 signal generator today  :-+
I just saw the driver drop kick it at North Weald it's a glorious day here in the sun.

My filters will be delivered before 1400 on Tuesday, can't wait to fire them up again. Think I'll pull the trigger on some very bright LEDs for the back lights and they should be good.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

Who let Murphy in?
 

Online bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9454
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29805 on: April 20, 2019, 09:14:55 pm »
Hahaha doesn’t surprise me. Always sign as “not checked”  :-DD

Sample on the printer. Few more parts than might seem needed but it makes the printing much more simple without needing supports.

That’s a mighty fine looking buggery stick  :-DD
 

Offline beanflying

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2969
  • Country: au
  • Toys so very many Toys.
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29806 on: April 20, 2019, 09:21:29 pm »
Hahaha doesn’t surprise me. Always sign as “not checked”  :-DD

Sample on the printer. Few more parts than might seem needed but it makes the printing much more simple without needing supports.

That’s a mighty fine looking buggery stick  :-DD

Teamed with a MOT other inappropriate HV Transformer and call it Hermes Temporal Lobe Adjuster  >:D
Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order :)
 

Online bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9454
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29807 on: April 20, 2019, 09:22:32 pm »
I’ll take three please!  :-DD
 

Offline nixiefreqq

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 252
  • Country: us
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29808 on: April 20, 2019, 11:04:32 pm »
That's a lot of damn caps... a few were leaking, most check okay, a few a bit week.  This is the Boeschert power supply out of my second 53310a, caps on order.

You can see where the caps were leaking, but the board cleaned up nicely (not in this pic).

did it do the usual tick-tick-tick-tick-tick?
"free range primate"
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6598
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29809 on: April 20, 2019, 11:18:35 pm »
Hahaha doesn’t surprise me. Always sign as “not checked”  :-DD

Sample on the printer. Few more parts than might seem needed but it makes the printing much more simple without needing supports.

That’s a mighty fine looking buggery stick  :-DD

Teamed with a MOT other inappropriate HV Transformer and call it Hermes Temporal Lobe Adjuster  >:D
My hermes driver is a nice lady and doesn't need rearranging thanks, but bd139 might need one

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

Who let Murphy in?
 

Offline beanflying

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2969
  • Country: au
  • Toys so very many Toys.
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29810 on: April 20, 2019, 11:45:28 pm »
Hahaha doesn’t surprise me. Always sign as “not checked”  :-DD

Sample on the printer. Few more parts than might seem needed but it makes the printing much more simple without needing supports.

That’s a mighty fine looking buggery stick  :-DD

Teamed with a MOT other inappropriate HV Transformer and call it Hermes Temporal Lobe Adjuster  >:D
My hermes driver is a nice lady and doesn't need rearranging thanks, but bd139 might need one

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

I could redesign you a custom version ;)

Coffee, Food, R/C and electronics nerd in no particular order :)
 
The following users thanked this post: Neomys Sapiens

Online bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9454
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29811 on: April 20, 2019, 11:53:24 pm »
Hermes didn’t destroy the signal generator and it appears to work fine including the attenuator.  Had to jump off it though as I’m cooking a roast dinner and have relatives over. Boo hiss.
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6598
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29812 on: April 21, 2019, 12:03:05 am »
Hermes didn’t destroy the signal generator and it appears to work fine including the attenuator.  Had to jump off it though as I’m cooking a roast dinner and have relatives over. Boo hiss.
That's good news, the sig gen, not the relatives

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

Who let Murphy in?
 

Online bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9454
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29813 on: April 21, 2019, 12:40:07 am »
I’m making them as unwelcome as possible so they’ll be gone soon  :-DD
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6598
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29814 on: April 21, 2019, 12:58:20 am »
I’m making them as unwelcome as possible so they’ll be gone soon  :-DD
So on the face of it, you'd recommend a Marconi Sig Gen would you? IIRC that one covers all the normal broadcast frequencies and does both AM and FM modulation.

Sent from my POT-LX1 using Tapatalk

Who let Murphy in?
 

Online med6753

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2681
  • Country: us
  • Tek nut
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29815 on: April 21, 2019, 01:18:39 am »
I’m making them as unwelcome as possible so they’ll be gone soon  :-DD

You're not a very good host are you?  ::) ;D

Psst...neither am I.  :-DD
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Online med6753

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2681
  • Country: us
  • Tek nut
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29816 on: April 21, 2019, 01:20:41 am »
Finally got the 4x attenuator for the 465B with the rebuilt channel 2 switch deck and the results have been disappointing to say the least. It did fix one or two sections but I still have other sections that have inconsistent DC continuity. After more careful examination and resistance checks I have finally tracked down the cause. I have 2 leaf switches that have lost their spring tension. In fact one of them shifts side to side due to it coming loose from it's rivet. These leaf switches are extremely delicate and all the activity from me rebuilding it plus who knows what the prior gorilla did probably contributed to this. Attempts to carefully bend the leafs to make better contact do nothing but make it worse. And even if I am successful at bending them it's probably going to screw up the high frequency characteristics. So this attenuator switch deck is junk. It's done. Toast.  :-- :-- |O

So....here's my plea. Guys in US/Canada. If you spot a 465B junker let me know. If it's on a local Craigslist or similar and they won't ship I'll pay you to get it. Across the pond in UK/EU. Again if you spot a 465B junker I'll pay. You can keep the carcass just send me one, or preferably both, of the attenuator switch decks.

Remember, it HAS to be a 465B. A 465 no suffix is not the same. Thanks everyone.   :-+
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6598
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29817 on: April 21, 2019, 01:45:31 am »
I’m making them as unwelcome as possible so they’ll be gone soon  :-DD

You're not a very good host are you?  ::) ;D

Psst...neither am I.  :-DD
Well now I'm sure that's not quite true, it depends who it is that your hosting to  >:D
Who let Murphy in?
 
The following users thanked this post: Neomys Sapiens

Online med6753

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 2681
  • Country: us
  • Tek nut
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29818 on: April 21, 2019, 01:48:59 am »
I’m making them as unwelcome as possible so they’ll be gone soon  :-DD

You're not a very good host are you?  ::) ;D

Psst...neither am I.  :-DD
Well now I'm sure that's not quite true, it depends who it is that your hosting to  >:D

Guilty as charged. You saw right through that, didn't you?  :P :-DD
An old gray beard with an attitude.
 

Offline Brumby

  • Supporter
  • ****
  • Posts: 8714
  • Country: au
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29819 on: April 21, 2019, 02:11:42 am »
Finally got the 4x attenuator for the 465B ....

About flippin' time.  I was getting grey waiting for it to turn up!!

It's had us poor vicarious types on edge for months...
 

Offline Neomys Sapiens

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 1022
  • Country: de
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29820 on: April 21, 2019, 02:30:14 am »
And happy (b)easter to you all!
 
The following users thanked this post: grizewald

Online bd139

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 9454
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29821 on: April 21, 2019, 02:35:36 am »
Right, finally got some play time now the infernal bastards have fucked off  :-DD

Well full checkout, FM and AM modulation works fine. All ranges work fine. Attenuator seems ok although I haven't done any scientific tests yet. ALC is however good. The oscillators drift around a bit but this appears to have settled down after about 30 minutes powered up.

Don't turn it on, take it apart. Bum shot. Quite a complicated beast. All caps were good and the mains filter is not a mains filter - it's just an IEC socket. That saved a few quid. The entire device takes ~10W. Lots and lots of top quality parts in here:



RF "cabin" is separate at the top. Proper chunk of cast metal with RF seals around it and all exiting signals via hard line to the attenuator. All low frequency signals on pass-through caps. ALC /modulation board:



Main oscillators are a bunch of varactor controlled oscillators on a sub-board which hinges out. These are switched in by the front panel switch via some bog standard 1n5711's.



Outside:



Quick board detail - nice quality:



To note the dial calibration is total balls. It's useless. So far out it's unreal. I'm not sure if I'll have to re-string it or anything yet but the basic controls and a counter rammed in the counter port on the back are probably better.

Very happy.

@Specmaster asked a question: would I recommend this for broadcast radios. The answer is a resounding NO because it only covers 10-520MHz. I want this to test filters in the 130-180MHz range.  The TF2016 is what you want for that - 10KHz to 120MHz.

This does have a sweep input which 0-18V (from my soon to arrive 3310A) can sweep it across a full range. That will result in filter sweeps on a scope with my W7ZOI power meter  :-+
 
The following users thanked this post: PrecisionAnalytic

Online Mr. Scram

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6533
  • Country: 00
  • Display aficionado
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29822 on: April 21, 2019, 02:35:40 am »
Sample on the printer. Few more parts than might seem needed but it makes the printing much more simple without needing supports.
It looks like you may be able to simplify things a bit without needing additional supports.
 

Offline Specmaster

  • Super Contributor
  • ***
  • Posts: 6598
  • Country: gb
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29823 on: April 21, 2019, 02:50:42 am »
@bd139 Thanks, yes you're right it is the TF2016 that I require, TBH I thought this was a 2016, but its the 2015 but I'd expect that they are almost identical inside and I'd only expect Marconi to use top quality parts as they are essentially a Military and Broadcast (TV and Radio) focused company. I used to be the maintenance electrical engineer at a company who used to make and fit all the cabinetry into their TV outside broadcast vehicles and they were rammed solid with gear and cost £millions for the BBC and other companies and also the same for the Military.

So I'll have to add a Marconi TF2016 into my search string now as well  :-+

EDIT:
Just pulled the trigger on 100 of 5mm ultra bright white LEDs for the 7150 LCD displays so I'll have plenty of spares  :-DD
« Last Edit: April 21, 2019, 02:53:46 am by Specmaster »
Who let Murphy in?
 

Online wch

  • Frequent Contributor
  • **
  • Posts: 263
  • Country: us
  • proceed until apprehended
Re: Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread
« Reply #29824 on: April 21, 2019, 03:10:37 am »
Finally got the 4x attenuator for the 465B with the rebuilt channel 2 switch deck and the results have been disappointing to say the least. It did fix one or two sections but I still have other sections that have inconsistent DC continuity. After more careful examination and resistance checks I have finally tracked down the cause. I have 2 leaf switches that have lost their spring tension. In fact one of them shifts side to side due to it coming loose from it's rivet. These leaf switches are extremely delicate and all the activity from me rebuilding it plus who knows what the prior gorilla did probably contributed to this. Attempts to carefully bend the leafs to make better contact do nothing but make it worse. And even if I am successful at bending them it's probably going to screw up the high frequency characteristics. So this attenuator switch deck is junk. It's done. Toast.  :-- :-- |O

So....here's my plea. Guys in US/Canada. If you spot a 465B junker let me know. If it's on a local Craigslist or similar and they won't ship I'll pay you to get it. Across the pond in UK/EU. Again if you spot a 465B junker I'll pay. You can keep the carcass just send me one, or preferably both, of the attenuator switch decks.

Remember, it HAS to be a 465B. A 465 no suffix is not the same. Thanks everyone.   :-+

Oh man, that's a drag.  :--

I will keep an eye out for you. There are two 465s on CL in my neighborhood right now, but no BEEs. 

BTW, the package you sent me is finally on the west coast, though not quite in Portland. It apparently spent nine days in NJ after four in MA. You seem to be postally cursed. Who did you piss off in the USPS?    :-DD

ham radio, the TEA gateway drug... just say no to HF
 


Share me

Digg  Facebook  SlashDot  Delicious  Technorati  Twitter  Google  Yahoo
Smf