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Author Topic: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread  (Read 1110 times)

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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« on: July 16, 2017, 09:34:12 PM »
[EDIT] There is a already a thread for this scope here. However, that thread has a lot of pre-release argument in it about whether Siglent will fix the few known bugs in a timely fashion; if you want to join in at that level please do so; what I will try to do here is maintain a brief summary of the current status e.g. when firmware updates are released etc.

I have bought this nice (IMHO) scope from www.saelig.com with an EEVBLOG discount.  Apart from the link above, the scope is mentioned in many different posts but mainly under a "Siglent SDS1202X-E vs <insert your choice of scope here>" format so I decided to give it it's own summary thread.  Siglent have a support thread here on the EEVBLOG forums but, as others have already said, they are causing confusion by requesting all bug reports and suggestions for improvements for all their products to be placed in that one thread.

Status as of July 16, 2017
The SDS1202X-E can be purchased in the US for around $360 which is excellent for a 200 MHz, 1 Gsps, 2-channel scope with free serial decoding built in.  It's one of the first pieces of test gear to use a Xilinx Zynq 7020 FPGA (which I have recently done a project for), that FPGA features a dual-core ARM A9 processor which means it's got a lot of hardware horsepower.  Mine is working fine and I would not hesitate to recommend it to anyone looking for a capable low end scope (no I don't work for Siglent).  There are 2 or 3 known bugs that will, according to Tautech, be addressed in a revised firmware version due out 'soon'.

Please try to limit postings here to information and questions on the SDS1202X-E only.

Reviews & Links
Dave has done a full tear down
Dave has a brief video review of the decoding features
Defpom has a full video review
Tonywilk Started a thread here in which he details a couple of know bugs and how to work around them
« Last Edit: July 16, 2017, 10:39:17 PM by Gandalf_Sr »
 
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Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: The UNOFFICIAL Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #1 on: July 16, 2017, 09:43:34 PM »
With all respect, but there is already an official thread for that oscilloscope, initiated by myself at the launch date.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-sds1000x-e-oscilloscope-based-on-xilinx-zynq-7000-soc-architecture/

Please use the same!
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 12:16:51 AM by pascal_sweden »
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: The 'Official' Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #2 on: July 16, 2017, 10:07:01 PM »
Hmmm, the title of your thread is what confused me, I searched for "SDS1202X-E" and did not find it.  However, readers of this thread may want to use your link to get there.
 

Online tautech

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #3 on: July 16, 2017, 10:42:39 PM »
[EDIT] There is a already a thread for this scope here. However, that thread has a lot of pre-release argument in it about whether Siglent will fix the few known bugs in a timely fashion; if you want to join in at that level please do so; what I will try to do here is maintain a brief summary of the current status e.g. when firmware updates are released etc.
:)
I've been thinking of doing exactly this to tidy up little threads from all over the forum.
Re the expected FW, it has been bumped back a couple of times but just a few days ago I was told mid July so it should come soon we hope.

Let me drop Pt 2 from Defpom here too:


Avid Rabid Hobbyist & NZ Siglent Distributor
 
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #4 on: July 16, 2017, 10:53:21 PM »
Thanks Tautech, I'm not trying to steal anyone's thread and I'm certainly not trying to confuse anyone, I created this thread because I searched for "SDS1202X-E" and didn't find the one Pascal_Sweden subsequently told me about.  For people who are thinking of buying or who have bought this scope, what's needed is a summary thread - anyone who wants to link across to any of the other threads is free to do so.  Next I think this thread needs a simple summary of the known bugs with workarounds if there are any.
 

Offline pascal_sweden

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #5 on: July 17, 2017, 12:17:22 AM »
In my original thread the focus is also around the Zynq-7000 SoC architecture, which is an important and unique aspect of this oscilloscope.

http://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-siglent-sds1000x-e-oscilloscope-based-on-xilinx-zynq-7000-soc-architecture/
 

Online nctnico

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #6 on: July 17, 2017, 01:55:30 AM »
IMHO creating a 4th thread because the other existing 3 are not helpfull in your opinion is not a good way to make things more clear. Better add a summary post to an existing thread if you feel inclined to do so.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #7 on: July 17, 2017, 04:00:22 AM »
IMHO creating a 4th thread because the other existing 3 are not helpfull in your opinion is not a good way to make things more clear. Better add a summary post to an existing thread if you feel inclined to do so.
IMHO, clogging up reasonable threads with stuff that makes it appear as if you're paid to hate Siglent is not a good way to to help people understand how a product actually performs; if those other threads weren't full of such unhelpful posts from you, I may not have been inclined to create a summary thread.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #8 on: July 17, 2017, 04:14:43 AM »
IMHO creating a 4th thread because the other existing 3 are not helpfull in your opinion is not a good way to make things more clear. Better add a summary post to an existing thread if you feel inclined to do so.
IMHO, clogging up reasonable threads with stuff that makes it appear as if you're paid to hate Siglent is not a good way to to help people understand how a product actually performs; if those other threads weren't full of such unhelpful posts from you, I may not have been inclined to create a summary thread.
This forum has moderators which will step in when necessary and I guess my posts where OK with them because they are not slanderous. Either way they don't need you for policing this forum.  :palm:
Oh and while I'm typing anyway: don't forget to add the list of bugs you promised because no summary thread is complete without those >:D
« Last Edit: July 17, 2017, 04:18:52 AM by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: The UNOFFICIAL Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #9 on: July 17, 2017, 07:02:07 AM »
With all respect, but there is already an official thread for that oscilloscope, initiated by myself at the launch date.



Official thread....   phew.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 
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Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #10 on: July 17, 2017, 11:15:10 AM »
Bugs Summary
1. Some people have had issues with triggering - this may be associated with 2...
2. If x10 is selected, thresholds don't keep up which means triggering appears not to work, may be the cause of 1
3. There's a menu item for 50 Ohm/1 Meg Ohm and it doesn't do anything
4. There's some weirdity around the menus

Tautech
says that a new update is coming out "very soon"
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #11 on: July 17, 2017, 07:01:58 PM »
Bugs Summary
1. Some people have had issues with triggering - this may be associated with 2...
2. If x10 is selected, thresholds don't keep up which means triggering appears not to work, may be the cause of 1
3. There's a menu item for 50 Ohm/1 Meg Ohm and it doesn't do anything
4. There's some weirdity around the menus

Tautech
says that a new update is coming out "very soon"

2. If I have probe set 1x  and set trigger level example 100mV and then I change probe set to 10x trigger level is now 1V.   Is it wrong. No it is right.

Every separate bug / error need some definition and  data. 

If some function is  questionable then explanation definition and arguments how it need change and why, including different situations.

After bug can regognize and repeat in what ever lab and specially in Siglent then it can repair.

Example: "Some bug in some trig functions".  This sentence is useful only for those mercenaries who want use it against Siglent.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #12 on: July 17, 2017, 07:38:59 PM »
rf-loop I already linked to the description of the bug by Tonywilk above. I'm trying to keep this a summary thread so my bug list is really only intended as an index although it might be useful for me to add links to the bugs.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #13 on: July 17, 2017, 11:21:00 PM »
rf-loop I already linked to the description of the bug by Tonywilk above. I'm trying to keep this a summary thread so my bug list is really only intended as an index although it might be useful for me to add links to the bugs.

This ok. Sorry I did not see this small link, but yers it is there..... old eyes and small monitor.  I watch this video and there I did not find any real bug and also my comment was mainly general.


Generally for all readers and testers

When (I did not say IF...) peoples report errors/bugs/opinions about develop some function most important thing is documenting so that it is as unambiguous as possible and error is replicable in what ever lab.  I'm very sceptic for errors what occur occasionally / randomly. There is nothing random inside.. No one can repair error what can not repeat.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #14 on: July 18, 2017, 12:27:04 AM »
I'm very sceptic for errors what occur occasionally / randomly. There is nothing random inside.
Unfortunately software has bugs which can act up seemingly randomly because they 'depend' on a sequence of events and/or specific values in memory. So you can't dismiss random events!
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #15 on: July 18, 2017, 01:19:23 AM »
I'm very sceptic for errors what occur occasionally / randomly. There is nothing random inside.
Unfortunately software has bugs which can act up seemingly randomly because they 'depend' on a sequence of events and/or specific values in memory. So you can't dismiss random events!
(straw man)
Who have told these can dismiss.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #16 on: July 18, 2017, 01:57:38 AM »
I'm very sceptic for errors what occur occasionally / randomly. There is nothing random inside.
Unfortunately software has bugs which can act up seemingly randomly because they 'depend' on a sequence of events and/or specific values in memory. So you can't dismiss random events!
(straw man)
Who have told these can dismiss.
Your post implied that loud and clear. In my experience with writing software the random errors are the worst to find but also the most important to fix because they make or break the customer's confidence in the software/product. I've learned to take bug reports stating some kind of random error seriously.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online tautech

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #17 on: July 18, 2017, 03:39:23 PM »
rf-loop I already linked to the description of the bug by Tonywilk above. I'm trying to keep this a summary thread so my bug list is really only intended as an index although it might be useful for me to add links to the bugs.
Let's see what's been fixed:
SDS1202X-E firmware update
Version 5.1.3.13
5.4 Mb

http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/SDS1000X-E_5.1.3.13.zip

Changelog
1. Cursor values not correct if probe attenuation was not set to 1X
2. Removed channel input impedance of 50?
3. Added external load setting to FFT menu. If using an external load, amplitudes can be shown in dBm
4. Repaired intermittent lock up after enabling decoding function
5. Optimized translation for German and English menus and pop messages
6. Removed Option label from UI
7. Corrected cursor measurements for active Zoom with FFT
8. Added telnet(port 5024) and open socket(port 5025) for LAN communication
9. Fixed blank zoom bug. With both channels at 2 ms/div, 7 Mpts, and a zoom of 500 ns/div, the zoom window would blank.
10. Fixed decode threshold levels for 10X probe attenuation selection.
11. Fixed average mode. After pressing [Run/Stop] to halt acquisition, the display changed to the last waveform, rather than maintaining the averaged waveform
12. Remain the final message for firmware update until rebooted
13. Fixed the issue with Chinese language setting after self- calibration.
14. Fixed the CAN source bug. If the source selected was CANH or CANL, decode would not work correctly.
15. Decreased waveform jitter with active measurements or math with horizontal delay out of the screen.
16. Added progress information while saving CSV files.
17. Fixed the Cycle RMS measurement does not update when the input signal changes
18. Keep “Print” picture type in accordance with the type selected from “Save/Recall”
19. Fixed user file renaming of a previously saved file.
20. Enabled decoding for time bases above 20ms/div.
21. Disable menu if cursors, measurement and math is disabled
22. Finished updates to support EasyScopeX and Labview driver.
23. Optimized channel self-calibration
« Last Edit: July 18, 2017, 07:26:21 PM by tautech »
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Offline borjam

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #18 on: July 18, 2017, 06:44:04 PM »
When (I did not say IF...) peoples report errors/bugs/opinions about develop some function most important thing is documenting so that it is as unambiguous as possible and error is replicable in what ever lab.  I'm very sceptic for errors what occur occasionally / randomly. There is nothing random inside.. No one can repair error what can not repeat.
Yes, computers are deterministic machines.

But (and it's a very big but)

Concurrency can result in such a chaotic behavior that it actually seems completely random. When I say chaotic I mean in the mathematical sense, that is, a minute change in the initial conditions causes a very important variation in the end result. Reproducing the events that lead to a race condition can be an almost impossible task. A system with an important bug can be running for ages without problems and, suddenly, fail one day because the right timing and conditions happened. It may never happen again, or happen very rarely.

At the end of the day, some bugs can be identified thanks to the frequency with which they manifest (at least it can give a hint) and the only way to prevent such problems is to design thoroughly and carefully.

Don't be so skeptical, the Gates of Tannhauser are full of programmers writing concurrent code ;)
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #19 on: July 18, 2017, 07:11:02 PM »
Let's see what's been fixed:
SDS1202X-E firmware update
Version 5.1.3.13
5.4 Mb

http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Firmware&Software/SDS1000X-E_5.1.3.13.zip

Changelog
1. Cursor values not correct if probe attenuation was not set to 1X
2. Removed channel input impedance of 50?
3. Added external load setting to FFT menu. If using an external load, amplitudes can be shown in dBm
4. Repaired intermittent lock up after enabling decoding function
5. Optimized translation for German and English menus and pop messages
6. Removed Option label from UI
7. Corrected cursor measurements for active Zoom with FFT
8. Added telnet(port 5024) and open socket(port 5025) for LAN communication
9. Fixed blank zoom bug. With both channels at 2 ms/div, 7 Mpts, and a zoom of 500 ns/div, the zoom window would blank.
10. Fixed decode threshold levels for 10X probe attenuation selection.
11. Fixed average mode. After pressing [Run/Stop] to halt acquisition, the display changed to the last waveform, rather than maintaining the averaged waveform
12. Remain the final message for firmware update until rebooted
13. Fixed the issue with Chinese language setting after self- calibration.
14. Fixed the CAN source bug. If the source selected was CANH or CANL, decode would not work correctly.
15. Decreased waveform jitter with active measurements or math with horizontal delay out of the screen.
16. Added progress information while saving CSV files.
17. Fixed the Cycle RMS measurement does not update when the input signal changes
18. Keep “Print” picture type in accordance with the type selected from “Save/Recall”
19. Fixed user file renaming of a previously saved file.
20. Enabled decoding for time bases above 20ms/div.
21. Disable menu if cursors, measurement and math is disabled
22. Finished updates to support EasyScopeX and Labview driver.
And
23. Optimized channel self-calibration
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 
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Online tautech

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #20 on: July 18, 2017, 08:56:00 PM »
Along with the new firmware there's also a new version of EasyScopeX and Labview drivers:
http://siglentamerica.com/prodcut-gjjrj.aspx?id=5109&tid=1&T=2
Avid Rabid Hobbyist & NZ Siglent Distributor
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #21 on: July 18, 2017, 11:57:32 PM »
New firmware is out - cool!  Have you applied it to a scope yet Tautech?  Did you do it from EasyScopeX or did you use a thumb-drive? Did all go well?
 

Offline klaff

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #22 on: July 19, 2017, 12:04:26 AM »
The bug list covered looks pretty good. 

The one thing I don't see addressed there is that the serial decoding doesn't work properly on history frames. Specifically, the decoded content shows the value of the last frame even if you switch to previous frames. I saw this while using CAN decoding and haven't tried to check it with other formats.

Otherwise this looks very promising.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #23 on: July 19, 2017, 12:17:46 AM »
New firmware is out - cool!  Have you applied it to a scope yet Tautech?  Did you do it from EasyScopeX or did you use a thumb-drive? Did all go well?

I have updated and ok. (of course using USB stick)

How to update. Please read current user manual version E02B  and there page 159.
http://www.siglentamerica.com/USA_website_2014/Documents/UserManual/SDS1000X-E_UserManul_UM0101E-E02B.pdf
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory  is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
It is much easier to think an apple fall to the ground than to think that the earth and the apple will begin to move toward each other and collide.
 

Offline Gandalf_Sr

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Re: The Summary Siglent SDS1202X-E Thread
« Reply #24 on: July 19, 2017, 12:46:51 AM »
I too updated using the USB stick and performed a self-cal as instructed.  It now reports SW 5.1.3.13 but I now have a triggering issue.  Using the test output, I connect to Ch1 and set DC trigger at 464mV and the scope probe set to x1 with matching selection on the Ch1 menu.  As I increase the vertical sensitivity, I can get down to 200 mV/div and all is OK, then I click once more to 100 mV/div and the display goes weird - see pictures.  The horizontal time base doesn't seem to make any difference.  I'm not sure if this was there before  :-BROKE

[EDIT1] I proved this wasn't the built in ref signal generator by using an external gene.  As I turn the vertical knob from 200 mV to 100 mV, I hear a relay click and the problem appears, clearly the second trace should show the bottom of the waveform just above the [1> marker at the left with double the vertical resolution, instead the traces appear to track off the bottom of the screen and this issue remains as long as I'm at a vertical resolution <200 mV/div

[EDIT2]nctnico has pointed out that this is not a bug, it's apparently what happens to most scopes when the input circuitry is overloaded.
« Last Edit: July 19, 2017, 03:32:10 AM by Gandalf_Sr »
 


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