UNI-T UTD2102CEL vs. Rigol DS1102E?

[Rhythmtech]

UNI-TUTD2102CEL

I love the wide screen, I am wondering how this scope might stack up against other Chinese scopes like the Rigol scopes. Anybody have any experience with them?

[Kiriakos-GR]

I have an hidden wish list ( about something like that ) but not that advanced ...  

But my doctor said, to be patience , for few months more.

But hey this looks sweet too.

[Rhythmtech]

Yeah, I am feeling this one too. I am really happy with my Uni-T UT603.  I just moved to a house and have a room just for my bench so my list is growing too...  Once the mess of moving is done, maybe we can pick one of these up for reviews.   

[Mechatrommer]

its in ebay too, but $100 more expensive http://cgi.ebay.com.my/Uni-T-UTD2102CEL-1G-Digital-Storage-Oscilloscope-100MHz-/260664969798?pt=Radio_Control_Parts_Accessories&hash=item3cb0d7ca46 but free shipping . i prefer the black color (just as Kiriakos's image), coz the white is more "rigolish", but i wonder why the seller put the black unit as thumbnail but in the description... its the "rigolish" white unit? has anyone here made an order from http://www.goodluckbuy.com as recommended by OP? are they safe?

[Rhythmtech]

A friend of mine ordered a UT-30A and received it. I am sure it is like any Chinese onilne retailer - Good until you need to communicate about anything like delivery issues, status updates, returns, etc...  Some of these even have people who speak good english and provide support for US sales through their forums. They probably work on a cases resolved basis.

[DJPhil]

This one looks like it'd be worth looking into. It's almost as though someone's finally decided the hobbyist market was worth courting!

I found a blog from a fellow in Spain(English via Google translate) linked in an ebay listing. Maybe I'm becoming cynical, but I'm not completely sure it's not a fancy advertisement. It's more information at the very least.

My first concern was the screen after hearing about Owon using STN LCDs in their 7.8" models. The blog lists it as a TFT LCD, ok, good start!
Memory depth is 2x600K. Not the best, but it seems high enough for most things. I guess the real question is whether it drops off at high sample rates.
Edit: "Recording Length" is "2 x 600k sampling dot"
        "Saving Depth" is 25K Single channel, 12.5K Dual channel - Ok, that's just crap. Sorry I missed that earlier. 

The pdf manual has extended specs starting on page 73, though they don't add much.

Good find! Hopefully they'll loan one to Dave to test!

[Kiriakos-GR]

Good find! Hopefully they'll loan one to Dave to test!

The bank said cash only  ...   

[TopherTheME]

I know the folks at sparkfun recommend the Uni-T 60A DMM so I'm guessing the scope can't be to bad. They have been all over ebay for a while now, I'm surprised there isn't more info about them. 

[alm]

I know the folks at sparkfun recommend the Uni-T 60A DMM so I'm guessing the scope can't be to bad. They have been all over ebay for a while now, I'm surprised there isn't more info about them. 

A DMM is much simpler than a scope, and a quite different skill set. Building a DIY 3.5 digit DMM wouldn't be too hard (you could even use something like an ICL7106), building a basic 60MHz/1GS/s scope is much harder. Fluke make excellent low-frequency equipment like DMM's and calibration equipment. Their high-frequency equipment was usually not that well received when they still made them. Note that they currently only make industrial ScopeMeters, which have low bandwidth and poor specs compared to similarly priced bench scopes.

Not saying Uni-T scopes are bad, but the fact that they make acceptable quality DMM's doesn't mean that their scopes are similar, they could be much worse or better. There was recently a thread on this forum about the record length of an Uni-T scope, it showed that documentation was poor and inconsistent, and I don't think the poster got a response from Uni-T (at least he didn't post any). It's hard to know unless someone with enough knowledge and equipment does a thorough evaluation of the scope.

[Bored@Work]

Uni-T is like hundreds of other Asian measurement instrument manufacturers, mediocre quality and no support.

What distinguishes them, and a few others like Rigol, from the mass of Asian instrument manufacturers is they go the extra mile to produce an English manual of dubious quality. This is relatively rare. Even rarer are Asian manufacturers producing good English manuals. But because of the combination of cheap and English manual Uni-T is one of the few manufacturers people like to import.

It is not the quality that makes people buy them. Look at that UTD2102CEL mechanical construction. You immediately notice two goofs. Power supply socket sticking out of the left, making it difficult to place it in a rack or shelf with other instruments. The plug belongs at the back. And the power button is on the top. WTF? The button belongs on the front panel.

Then you notice there is only a front USB plug. The manual says it is OTG, so might work for a PC connection, too. If it does work for a PC connection, you have that USB cable hanging around on the front, not on the back.

The manual is not really clear if it can interface with a PC at all. If it can then the control commands for the PC interface aren't documented, and I bet my pants their PC software is shit.

Next thing is they don't make full use of the wide screen. The menu on the right seems to stick and take up a good bunch of the screen.

But even with the menu occupying the screen, the claimed 800 pixel horizontal resolution doesn't add up. They have 12 horizontal divs. So they must cram like 50 or 60 samples in a horizontal div to make use of that resolution. And it would be hard to discern individual samples at that 50 samples/div resolution. Or they just cram the usual 10 samples in, and draw lines between them (shudder). In the manual they say they start interpolating 2:1 at some point (shudder). That would mean they still cram 25 or 30 real samples in a div, still hard to discern individual samples.

Also obvious, they still haven't sorted out their memory length vs. memory depth specification confusion. Only that they now introduce the terms recording length and saving depth, too. So is it 2 * 600k (recording length), or 25k (1 channel) / 12.5k (two channels) (saving depth)?

The advertising says it has a special print screen feature. Again over that single USB plug? Memory stick, PC, printer all over one USB plug? BTW, I can't find mentioning of that print feature in the manual. Again, they don't manage to come up with a clear specification.

That UTD2102CEL is just the typical Asian lucky bag. It is left to the buyer to figure out what he got. Uni-T won't care once they have your money.

[PeterG]

The UNI-T scope has 25k memory depth......enough said. Go with the Rigol DS1102E for the longer memory depth, i have had no problems with mine at all.

[DJPhil]

Wow, I should have dug deeper. I corrected my previous post about the poor memory depth (if that's what "saving depth" is).
This one seems like a lemon, and it's probably a moot point, but

But even with the menu occupying the screen, the claimed 800 pixel horizontal resolution doesn't add up. They have 12 horizontal divs. So they must cram like 50 or 60 samples in a horizontal div to make use of that resolution. And it would be hard to discern individual samples at that 50 samples/div resolution. Or they just cram the usual 10 samples in, and draw lines between them (shudder). In the manual they say they start interpolating 2:1 at some point (shudder). That would mean they still cram 25 or 30 real samples in a div, still hard to discern individual samples.

I think I sorted this one out.
From page 77 in the manual: "Display resolution: 800 horizontal x RGB x 480 vertical pixels (color)" and "Waveform display zone: Lateral 12 div, 25 dot/div, Longitudinal 8 div, 25 dot/div"
Using the screenshots from the blog I mentioned before (which were actually 400x240) I measured the waveform zone at 301x201. At least that matches what they have in the manual! For comparison the Rigol's full screen size is 320x234, shares the same number of major divisions (12x8) and the menu pops out, so I'd expect the waveform displays to be roughly the same number of pixels. It looks like they're actually rendering at 400x240 and blowing it up digitally to 800x480. What a waste! And that doesn't even address your concerns about samples per pixel. I'd look into it further, but there doesn't seem to be much point after all the rest!

I'm pretty easygoing about some quirks. I know I'm not speaking for everyone, but I don't mind an inconvenient plug or power switch if I'm getting a good deal. This one seems like a lemon though, and a far cry from Rigol territory.

[PeterG]

A lot of bleeding edge tech comes from Asia.
When i am looking for test gear, i only ask one thing.

Will it do what i need for the price i am willing to pay?

If the answer is yes, then i buy it. I dont care what color it is as long as it works and it made by a reputable company such as Rigol.

Regards

[Mechatrommer]

and to compare with rigol screen, i copied a picture from http://cgi.ebay.com.my/RIGOL-DS-1052E-Digital-Oscilloscope-DS1052E-50MHz-2ch-/320563639805?pt=BI_Oscilloscopes&hash=item4aa314f5fd and made the crudest comparison method ever. from my conclusion, even without menu in rigol, uni-t still got larger graph (with menu). but it is sad if its true that the menu is sticky, still no evidence on this. the menu on/off button has been replaced with print copy button. i hope pressing the feature menu button twice will off the menu.

[Kiriakos-GR]

I will do to it the EMI tests , because its the easy part ...      

[PeterG]

Well Dave has reviewed the DS1052E which it the same scope just clocked down to 50Mhz. We need to know a lot more about the UNI-T scope and also more about the company.

Regards

[Kiriakos-GR]

From my end ( EU ) everything is covered with 2 years warranty no matter what ...

All that I need are to find an local reseller with the lowest price .

If you care about parts and cost .... call them  ( email ) !! 

[Rhythmtech]

Uni-T is like hundreds of other Asian measurement instrument manufacturers, mediocre quality and no support....

Yup, but that is at this point a legitimate market that has appeal. You seem to be assuming there are hundreds of idiots who are buying cheap Chinese test equipment without any thought to crappy support.  Personally I'd much rather have one of the LeCroy WaveAce scopes, but at 4-5 times the cost, I cannot afford one.  I almost won an older model LeCroy 9310 on ebay for ~$100 earlier this week, but it got sniped while I was trying to snipe it...

I am somewhat lucky in that I have access to equipment that I know is calibrated and working correctly to compare units I've purchased from eBay with. Under most circumstance any product more than ~$400 is cost prohibitive and I am unable to justify owning it for hobbyist home use.  Not to mention, that purchasing a scope from eBay brand name or not for more than say $200 becomes a costly gamble.  So a Chinese scope coupled with a forum like this one would give me adequate support.

[Bored@Work]

You seem to be assuming there are hundreds of idiots who are buying cheap Chinese test equipment without any thought to crappy support.

No, I am stating experience. If you don't want to hear experiences don't ask in a public forum. And I certainly won't prevent you from whatever you want to buy. Just don't come back whining.

[PeterG]

I see this thread is not about hi-end equipment, it is about hobbyist level gear.

BoredAtWork has a valid point, however, in this case the OP is not looking for industrial level equipment.

I am a happy owner of a "Cheep Chinese" DSO and FG. I have had no problems at all. The OP is asking for help deciding between 2 companies who both happen to be based in Asia. I don't base these decisions on where the product is made. I base my decision on whether the product will do what i need.

In this case i would have to recommend the Rigol due to them having being well known for making quality products. UNI-T has a big "Shopfront" but i have seen little of them outside of Asia. Rigol are however available retail here in Australia so i have a local contact for repairs.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Regards

[Rhythmtech]

You seem to be assuming there are hundreds of idiots who are buying cheap Chinese test equipment without any thought to crappy support.

No, I am stating experience. If you don't want to hear experiences don't ask in a public forum. And I certainly won't prevent you from whatever you want to buy. Just don't come back whining.

Good point. I probably could have worded that better.

[Mechatrommer]

yesterday, i've made a bit research on Uni-T scope....

BAND,   RIGOL,   UNI-T
50MHz,   DS1052,   UTD2052
100MHz,   DS1102,   UTD2102

what a coincidence in model numbering.

[Bored@Work]

yesterday, i've made a bit research on Uni-T scope....

BAND,   RIGOL,   UNI-T
50MHz,   DS1052,   UTD2052
100MHz,   DS1102,   UTD2102

what a coincidence in model numbering.

No coincidence. It is not unusual to number scopes in the Rigol and UNI-T category like:

digit 1 - Series
digit 2, digit 3 - Bandwidth
digit 4 - Channels

So DS1102 is a Rigol series 1000, 100 MHz, 2 channel oscilloscope.  Or take the Instek GDS-1052. An Instek series 1000, 50 MHz, 2 channel oscilloscope.

[Fraser]

Hi All,

I am new to this Forum and have just purchased a Rigol DS1052E with which I am very pleased. Thanks for the recommendation Dave  

I have been a loyal customer of UNI-TREND products for some time and have several of their multimeters and the UT-81B multimeter/oscilloscope. These products have appeared well built and to date have provided me with good service in the hobbyist role.

Now the bad news. I recently purchased one of UNI-T's more expensive bench multimeters, the UT-804. The first unit was faulty upon delivery and went into an alarm mode after being switched on. The supplier immediately sent a second unit that failed with intermittant readings after only a day of use. After sending evidence of the faults to the seller he decided they were scrap and let me keep them at no cost   What does that tell you about how much these units cost him eh ?

Upon opening the UT-804 I was confronted by a total pile of rubbish. 90% of the meter case is empty. There is a PCB running the full length of the front panel with a small daughter board for the connector fuses etc. The PCB appears to be a fibreglass type and the soldering of some SMD components is appalling. To top it off the terminals are connected to the main board by the compression of rubbish self tapper srews into cheap plastic that has cracked under the strain, no wonder I was getting poor resistance and voltage readings. The UT-804 is supposed to be a UNI-T quality product, well I can confirm that it is very poorly made and unreliable.

Consider my comments when looking at any expensive UNI-T product...... is it going to be like the UT-804 inside. I for one didn't take the risk and bought the Rigol product that had Dave's thumbs up. Maybe the UNI-T DSO is made on another production line or by someone else.... to be sure you would need to look inside and check out the build quality.

[alm]

I am new to this Forum and have just purchased a Rigol DS1052E with which I am very pleased. Thanks for the recommendation Dave 

Welcome to the forum!

Now the bad news. I recently purchased one of UNI-T's more expensive bench multimeters, the UT-804. The first unit was faulty upon delivery and went into an alarm mode after being switched on. The supplier immediately sent a second unit that failed with intermittant readings after only a day of use. After sending evidence of the faults to the seller he decided they were scrap and let me keep them at no cost  What does that tell you about how much these units cost him eh ?

Guess you should've done some research , unless you bought it before that was posted.

Upon opening the UT-81B I was confronted by a total pile of rubbish. 90% of the meter case is empty. [...] The UT-804 is supposed to be a UNI-T quality product, well I can confirm that it is very poorly made and unreliable.

Is this the UT-81B handheld meter/scope or the UT-804 bench meter?

Consider my comments when looking at any expensive UNI-T product...... is it going to be like the UT-804 inside. I for one didn't take the risk and bought the Rigol product that had Dave's thumbs up. Maybe the UNI-T DSO is made on another production line or by someone else.... to be sure you would need to look inside and check out the build quality.

I wonder if some of their products are bought from other vendors? It seems strange that the build quality of a more expensive bench meter is worse than cheap handheld meters (from what I remember from Dave's review, the $100 meter wasn't great either, but not that bad). It does show that you can't just rely on the Uni-T brand for even mediocre quality.