Author Topic: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?  (Read 74562 times)

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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #50 on: March 25, 2011, 12:05:00 pm »
Thanks for the excellent videos Mike and for posting the links on the Velleman forum.

The response from Velleman (reproduced below) is at least open to the idea that they may have a problem and will investigate it.

From Velleman:

"We appreciate your feedback.
Possible problem has not been reported yet.
We are currently looking into this issue and we will post an update a soon as we have more info."
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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #51 on: March 25, 2011, 01:28:25 pm »
GOOD NEWS  :)

Velleman support is as good as ever and have just posted the following on their forum:
====================================
Velleman response:

"We have managed to simulate the problem and source the cause of troubles.
It appears to be related to the firmware, not the hardware.
Unfortunately, for copyright reasons, we cannot supply .hex code.
We can offer a free firmware update if you return the scope to our tech. dept.

Velleman Instruments Tech. Dept.
Legen Heirweg 33
9890 Gavere
Belgium

Please include a copy of this conversation.
As a courtesy, while your scope is here, we can offer a free custom splash screen for your scope.
If you send an 128x64 bitmap (2 colour) to support (at) velleman (dot) be then we will include it in your scope.

Once again, thank you for your feedback and sorry for any inconvenience."
=======================================

Now that's what I call fast and correct response to a situation  :)

Many thanks to Mike for highlighting this problem and generating the excellent videos for us.
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Offline saturation

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #52 on: March 25, 2011, 05:05:11 pm »
Great, if its purely firmware, both Mike and your good work brought to light something they weren't aware off.  If you get the firmware upgraded, it would be good to retest its performance again.
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline FreeThinker

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #53 on: March 25, 2011, 06:02:00 pm »
Just a thought but was it excellent customer service or 'Dave Power'? Seems that a lot of manufacturers keep an eye on the EEVBLOG and this can generate fast responses
Machines were mice and Men were lions once upon a time, but now that it's the opposite it's twice upon a time.
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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #54 on: March 25, 2011, 07:23:37 pm »
From past positive support experience I have had with Velleman, I would like to think that they continue to offer very good customer support.

I would however say that no decent manufacturer wishes to have negative comments about their 'new baby' splashed across the internet  ;)

In this case I am just very pleased that my HPS-140 will recieve a 'fix'.

I will test it again after it returns but will leave Mike to do any video's hr thinks appropriate as he has a knack for it and I don't  :D

I hope Velleman are genuinely pleased that I reported the issue to them but I must  admit that I am very surprised at the support route these days. I used to contact them by direct and private email but they now like to receive questions via the support forum. I don't like complaining to a good company in public as that's a bit like washing their dirty laundry in public and can be considered a tad aggressive at the earliest stages of a complaint. Velleman gave me no choice in this case so I went into print to show my dissappointment. It has aired the issue though, so other customers may benefit which is good.

I have no axe to grind with Velleman and honestly believe them to be a decent European company.

« Last Edit: March 25, 2011, 10:48:42 pm by Aurora »
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Online Zero999

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2011, 09:42:02 pm »
Looks good but that means I've got to post the meter off to Belgium, hoping it gets there in one piece. I'll have to look into recorded delivery.

Oh well, at least the money I've saved though buying it earlier should more than make up the shipping costs which I doubt Vellemen will reimburse me for.
 

Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2011, 10:53:49 pm »
Agreed.

Last time I reported an issue with their PCG10/K8016, they sent me a new PAL chip and offered me two of their kits FOC as compensation and thanks for my help in identifying an issue. BUT that was when I was dealing with a service manager and not discussing the matter via a support forum.
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #57 on: March 25, 2011, 11:35:42 pm »

I hope Velleman are genuinely pleased that I reported the issue to them but I must  admit that I am very surprised at the support route these days. I used to contact them by direct and private email but they now like to receive questions via the support forum. I don't like complaining to a good company in public as that's a bit like washing their dirty laundry in public and can be considered a tad aggressive at the earliest stages of a complaint. Velleman gave me no choice in this case so I went into print to show my dissappointment. It has aired the issue though, so other customers may benefit which is good.

A public forum thread showing how efficiently they dealt with it is good for them in the long term. Most things don't go wrong most of the time. It's the attitude of a company when things do that seperates the good from the bad.

Now what to put in that custom graphic....
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Online Zero999

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #58 on: March 26, 2011, 06:25:28 pm »
I've just realised what you mean about the poor battery management. It doesn't even have a low battery warning. I was using it today to measure the output from my signal generator when the display went dim, then it started rebooting repeatedly like a Windows PC with a virus.

I suppose it's good they're fixing the triggering problem so quickly, not many companies would do that. I think I'll wait a week or so before sending mine of, in the hope others find more bugs which can be fixed. I'll be mentioning the poor battery management to them, in the hope they fix that too but I'm not going to hold my breath. I'll also bring the cost of shipping to their attention but wouldn't expect the money back, just an apology and some gift vouchers would be nice.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #59 on: March 29, 2011, 01:08:10 pm »
Just noticed that the thread has been deleted from the Velleman forum.
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Online Zero999

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #60 on: March 29, 2011, 05:18:15 pm »
Just noticed that the thread has been deleted from the Velleman forum.
Sounds ominous.

There again, perhaps they've rectified the problem and recalled all existing units from the retailers? If so they should've just closed the thread.
 

Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #61 on: March 29, 2011, 05:42:18 pm »
I noticed the thread deletion today as well. I needed the text to send with my unit. As it happened I had the relevant text posted in this thread so just cut & pasted it into my letter.

I mentioned 'airing dirty laundry in public', well I suspect Velleman are thinking the same. They have received our complaint, responded well, and probably contacted their distribution network to put sales on hold (?). As to what happens to people who have already purchased the unit, well I suppose if they don't complain they will never know that this issue has been identified.

Velleman may have had concerns regarding my somewhat direct writing in the original message. They would not wish sales of the HPS-140 to suffer as a result and the firmware issue. The whole matter will likely be old news soon and I suppose it could cause confusion ?

I was surprised to see it deleted though. Better to have issued a formal statement detailing effected firmware versions, and then locked the thread.

For info: The cost to return my unit by Royal Mail International 'Signed For' with £100 cover was GBP10.34 which is unwelcome but we will see what Velleman offers me by way of compensation.

UPDATE:

Maplin Electronics(UK) are now showing "Preorder" against the HPS140 on their web site and they had plenty of stock a few days ago.
I suspect they are awaiting new stock with the fixed firmware.

« Last Edit: March 29, 2011, 05:51:02 pm by Aurora »
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Online Zero999

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #62 on: March 29, 2011, 06:00:27 pm »
Do you think it's worth contacting Maplin about the problem?

Is it possible they might exchange it for one with fixed firmware? I'd rather pop in to my local store than put it in the post.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #63 on: March 29, 2011, 06:07:28 pm »
Quote
There again, perhaps they've rectified the problem and recalled all existing units from the retailers?
Or are hiding it to prevent more people requesting upgrades.
My local store only had one in stock so maybe they just sold out after the publicity here..!
For a new product like this they probably did a small initial batch to fluch out any problems anyway.
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #64 on: March 29, 2011, 06:08:43 pm »
Do you think it's worth contacting Maplin about the problem?

Is it possible they might exchange it for one with fixed firmware? I'd rather pop in to my local store than put it in the post.
Seems unlikely anyone at Maplin would even know what firmware is...
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Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #65 on: April 05, 2011, 04:26:38 pm »
My HPS-140 has just returned from Belgium  :)

All looks to be in order with no scratches or damage to my nice new 'toy'  :D

The firmware version now shows version 1112 on boot.

A bit of a busy evening ahead but will endeavor to test the trigger performance and repot findings ASAP.

P.S. I asked for a scope probe by way of compensation for the hassle and postage cost, I received one in the returned package so I now have an HPS-140i as opposed to the HPS-140.... thanks Velleman  ;D
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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #66 on: April 05, 2011, 04:30:35 pm »
Seems unlikely anyone at Maplin would even know what firmware is...

Customers might. lol

Opportunistic Aurora...let us know if it has been fixed.
 

Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #67 on: April 05, 2011, 05:30:05 pm »
OK, I've run a real quick and dirty test using my 20MHz function generator.

Velleman have significantly improved the triggering but it isn't perfect. Read on.....

With a Sine wave input the HPS140 triggers fine up to 6.3MHz but you are getting signal shape distortion by that point due to aliasing.
When a Square wave is input, the trigger remains locked until 7.6Mhz but above that frequency you get garbage displayed and not a waveform.

One remaining weakness is the 250nS timebase limit. 100nS would be more helpful as signals start to get cramped as you approach 4 MHz.

When I said it was improved but not perfect, I should state that for my use it is perfectly acceptable. The waveform does have slight jitter remaining due possibly to slight trigger point variation or trigger processing tolerances. It is interesting to note that the UT-81 also has similar amounts of jitter and the HPS-140 seems no worse. The HPS-140 now provides an adequately stable waveform at 4MHz which is what I expect of a 40MS/s DSO.

The improvement in the waveform display performance on the Velleman HPS-140 is significant and satisfies me so I am a happy customer.

It is also pleasing that Velleman gifted me the 60MHz oscilloscope probe as they were under no obligation to do so. This tends to support my view that Velleman respect their customer base. Interestingly, there was no report provided with the returned unit, just a shipping note.

When comparing the HPS-140 against the UT-81B, I have to admit the UT-81B is a superior product considering the similar cost when I purchased it (GBP90) The UT-81 has the benefit of a larger and clearer display offering better resolution and detail especially when looking at complex signals like a CCIR TV picture waveform. I want the HPS-140 for maximum portability. Where tiny size is not so important but a portable handheld DSO is required, the UT-81B would be my recommendation.
« Last Edit: April 05, 2011, 05:41:45 pm by Aurora »
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Online Zero999

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #68 on: April 06, 2011, 04:41:40 pm »
Good, I think I'll send it off then.
 

Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #69 on: April 06, 2011, 06:16:16 pm »
I sent mine Royal Mail international 'signed-for' plus £100 insurance and it cost around £10.

This is why I asked for a free HPS-140 scope probe. and I suspect why they sent me one. It would be worth you asking as well.

Note: I used a well padded box that originally contained a new HDD and this ensured safe transit for the DSO. Velleman used the same box to return my unit. It would be sensible to take similar precautions to avoid transit damage. (Padded envelopes get chucked around)
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Offline gazzzman

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #70 on: April 07, 2011, 02:18:57 pm »
hi there folks!
I have just bought the HPS140 from CPC to suplement my old (valve ::) ) scope!
as it is a little lighter!
before I have even charged it, I came looking for info LOL!
now my question.. my firmware version says 1041 and that "sounds" a lot older than the 1111 I saw mentioned above!
am I being paranoid?

funny really, been in electronics 30+ years and on the internet since 97 and this is the first time I have ran across this forum!
so cyberspace really IS that big LOL!
 

Online FraserTopic starter

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #71 on: April 07, 2011, 05:14:14 pm »
Hi gazzzman,

Your firmware is older but that does not mean it has the problem described in this thread. I can't remember what firmware was fitted in mine before I sent it off to be upgraded  :(

If your unit has a stable trigger at above 1 MHz you are OK. If not, it will need to go to Velleman for an upgrade of firmware.

One of the other members should be able to tell you the firmware revision that has the bug in it as they may not have sent their DSO off for upgrade yet.

Newer firmware may have other bug fixes as well so it might still be worth getting it upgraded to the latest revision.


A thought... not all firmware version numbers are sequential numeric updates. I have a suspicion that Velleman use a YYWW format. i.e 1112 could mean the version produced in the 12th week of 2011. No proof but 1041 would be the version produce in the 41st week of 2010 which fits the release date pretty well.
 
Fraser
« Last Edit: April 07, 2011, 09:49:03 pm by Aurora »
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Offline gazzzman

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #72 on: April 08, 2011, 08:39:04 am »
hi Aurora!
thanks for the reply :)
I will go and find someone with a reasonable function generator, and see how the scope performs!
1111 would seem also to sit right with the datecode / version theory, so we will wait and see :)
it is a real shame that Velleman didn't fit a USB port at least for firmware updates :(
there are always some bugs in release software and a provision for rectifying these bugs without sending the scope back to Belgium would have been a sane decision :)
thanks for your help!
I will report back after I have done a few tests!
 

Offline jaytourist

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #73 on: April 08, 2011, 10:05:48 am »
dude, have you tried to recharge the battery? you can try that too just to make sure it has no problem.   :)
 

Offline gazzzman

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Re: Velleman HPS140i miniature DSO - a thing of beauty or ugly duckling ?
« Reply #74 on: April 08, 2011, 12:15:39 pm »
hi there jaytourist!
yes, it's charged and appears to be working fine :)
I just don't have a reliable signal source to hand right now to assess the performance!
most of my better test gear is ancient!
my other scope for example is a Gould 50Mhz Dual beam Valve job (circa 1970) uses a pair of 807's in each of the deflection output stages! it is a monster!
but, yes. it still does the job! despite it's 65Kg!
but my Advance function generator (waveform generator actually) uses B9A valves and only goes up to 1 MHz LOL!
as I rarely bother with electronics that contain those nasty little three legged fuses (at a personal level) I rarely need any better test gear :)
work (sadly) is another matter and I sadly lament the loss of analog video and CRT's!
dealing as I do with LCD, DLP and Plasma
as far as work goes, economics dictate I am little more than a board jockey these days  ???
 


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