Velleman WFS210 wireless oscilloscope for only £20 !

[Specmaster]

Version V1.1.0.295 also downloaded from their site yesterday?

I'll install the newer one and give that a whizz later.

[bitseeker]

Since the scope has been available since 2014 and was a subject of a Hackaday article at that time I'm surprised that there has not been any other development of another interface or logger application for this beastie. I can only surmise that people started and soon lost interest in disgust.
I've searched and can find no evidence of development of such an application.

I suspect your speculation may be correct. At full price, one expects the thing to work properly or it goes back. However, at 80% off the retail price, it falls into impulse-buy, experimental territory where much more can be tolerated and software/hardware hacking flourishes.

NEWS......

Velleman have responded to my comments.

Their developer has changed some of the code after reading this thread 

Amazing news, Fraser. EEV power!

[Specmaster]

New driver installed and the functionality has not changed as far the USB connected device is concerned, so I still stand by my original comments about it best suited in that configuration to audio work. Above that frequency range the frequency reading begin to get flakey around the 1Mhz to 5Mhz, above 5Mhz, give up because it starts to read as Hz then and is miles off the target reporting something like 10Mhz as 780Hz.

[Fraser]

Specmaster,

We must remember that the ADC sampling rate on each channel is only 10Ms/S. That would normally dictate a maximum useful frequency range of DC to 1MHz (Sampling rate/10) As you climb above 1Mhz you get fewer and fewer samples per cycle and not only does the waveshape become distorted, but the triggering can also start to have trouble if it is derived from the ADC output. At 5MHz you are only getting 2 samples per waveform cycle..... not a good situation as the sample point can fall at different points on the waveform and is not representative of the waveform shape, even if a simple sine wave. For 5MHz waveforms you really want at least a 50Ms/S ADC sampling the waveform. 10 samples per cycle can produce an acceptable wave shape and a pretty solid trigger point.

I would not recommend use of this DSO for signals above 1MHz unless waveshape accuracy is not a concern and some trigger jitter can be tolerated.

Fraser

[Specmaster]

Fraser

Yes I agree with you, ideally its best in the audio spectrum because of the sampling rate, and it produces the best steady displays at below 1KHz. For me this is more of a novelty item, I would like to get working better on a tablet without the massive lag it displayed on my Galaxy and then it will be used like a signal tracer for audio circuits. It certainly is not of Velleman's best products, they are capable of producing a far better version.

[djos]

I checked the ADC and there a pin compatible 45 Meg sample per channel ADC. So  could it be a possibility to increase the sample rate

Need access to firmware to do this and velleman won't release it.
Im not sure if there's any other way around this ?

So who wants to swap one in first and see if it "just works" without FW mods?

[R_G_B_]

Its actually dual 8bit not dual 45Meg samples
I miss read the convention.

From the data sheet:

 Pin-compatible
versions of the MAX1193 are also available. Refer to the
MAX1191 data sheet for 7.5Msps, and the MAX1192
data sheet for 22Msps.

I'm not sure if it would work by just changing the ADC ?

[djos]

Its actually dual 8bit not dual 45Meg samples
I miss read the convention.

From the data sheet:

 Pin-compatible
versions of the MAX1193 are also available. Refer to the
MAX1191 data sheet for 7.5Msps, and the MAX1192
data sheet for 22Msps.

I'm not sure if it would work by just changing the ADC ?

I guess it depends on how the FW was written. eg does it have a hard limit to match the ADC capabilities or does it simply operate as fast as the ADC will allow? Could be other bottlenecks too, but heck it'd be fun to see what happens.

PS, due being QFN, not BGA, it should be easy to replace - I've only got one coming (from UK to Aus) so im not willing to try the mod on it unless someone else confirms it works first.

[Fraser]

Velleman have responded again on their forum. They appear very open to assistance with this products development.

Fraser

[bitseeker]

Velleman going from to

[Fraser]

Let us hope so 

I have always found Velleman to be helpful in the past so hoped they still are.
So far its looking promising.

Fraser

[R_G_B_]

The thing about this is if Fraser had not posted  on  thier forum
They would have carried on the way they have regardless.

Yes they are sorting it out now. But it's really their job to be sorting out problems with there product with  quality Control and testing.

It would  Be kind  of them to also  release the firmware.
Like they did the software

somebody can then  have a ago at improving firmware even  further.

[Howardlong]

The thing about this is if Fraser had not posted there on  thier forum
They would have carried on the way they have regardless.

Yes they are sorting it out now. But it's really their job to be sorting out problems with there product with  quality Control and testing.

It would  Be kind  of them to also  release the firmware.
Like they did the software

somebody can then  have a ago at improving firmware even  further.

It’s pretty astonishing that it made it through in its current state as far as retail shelves to be honest. I wonder how many of them, like mine, are sitting in drawers gathering dust after the end user gave up two years ago? I can imagine the returns rate is high.

[Specmaster]

The thing about this is if Fraser had not posted there on  thier forum
They would have carried on the way they have regardless.

Yes they are sorting it out now. But it's really their job to be sorting out problems with there product with  quality Control and testing.

It would  Be kind  of them to also  release the firmware.
Like they did the software

somebody can then  have a ago at improving firmware even  further.

It’s pretty astonishing that it made it through in its current state as far as retail shelves to be honest. I wonder how many of them, like mine, are sitting in drawers gathering dust after the end user gave up two years ago? I can imagine the returns rate is high.

Just maybe the previous complaints that they received did not have the same gravity as the one Fraser made, nor as elegantly made. In it he made reference to the fact this was a large forum / group of  hobbyists, professional electronic engineers and design engineers and the EEV blog is known worldwide and bad publicity is something that they would wish to avoid. There is a good chance that previously any complaints might well have been from individuals who did not appear to carry any significance globally, unlike this forum?

To that end, we should say thank you to Fraser for getting them to revisit this and resolve some issues. If they release the firmware as well I'm sure the product would be improved immensely.

Fraser you have done a sterling job here and I for one thank you for your efforts so far and determination to see this through, Thank you, you're a star.

[bitseeker]

I don't own one of these, yet, but I second Specmaster's sentiments and look forward to seeing how things progress.

If the software/firmware drastically improve, I suppose the price might go back up.

[jimmc]

At present the Android App does not give any indication if the WiFi link fails after being connected - the display just freezes and most, but not all, of the buttons stop working.
Would it be possible to flag link failure in a more obvious way?

Jim

[3db]

The thing about this is if Fraser had not posted  on  thier forum
They would have carried on the way they have regardless.

Yes they are sorting it out now. But it's really their job to be sorting out problems with there product with  quality Control and testing.

It would  Be kind  of them to also  release the firmware.
Like they did the software

somebody can then  have a ago at improving firmware even  further.

Velleman  are selling the thing  for £20.
Look at the shit Microsoft,Adobe etc. have been selling for decades.
It's £20 !!   

[Mr. Scram]

Velleman  are selling the thing  for £20.
Look at the shit Microsoft,Adobe etc. have been selling for decades.
It's £20 !!   

I suspect storing the stockpile has become more expensive than dumping them at cost or possibly even at a loss. Sometimes shifting things is more important than actually making a profit.

[R_G_B_]

Maybe they should also dump the firmware on the customer if that's the case.

[R_G_B_]

I have received another one of these

it seems theres a firmware problem with this not just software i was able to compare two different units with two different versions of firmware.

The one with the latter version of firmware which I posted details on here Connects more frequently and easily than the one i just received which does not work on a WiFi connection at all although it does connect because if you turn of the oscilloscope you get a pop up message on windows regarding connection being lost so a connection process is taking place somehow.  However  it will connect on windows 10 via USB.


Must there also be a problem with older versions of the firmware regarding wifi

[WaveyDipole]

I ordered one from the Maplin outlet via Amazon and received it today. It comes without any probes which seems not to be mentioned anywhere. It would have been helpful for this to have been stated. While somewhat irritating it turns out that it did not matter in this case. Unfortunately it seems that this particular unit is having problems with connecting to Windows over USB so I couldn't do much with it anyway. Nothing came up when I first plugged it in to the USB port and it didn't get listed as a USB device when I selected the USB connection in the software. Eventually it did briefly appear as a USB serial device in the device manager on COM4. During this time I was briefly able to connect to it in the Vellman software but this was short lived and it soon disappeared again, so connection does seem to be erratic. Unfortunately I did not manage to note what firmware version it had. There is a light under the exclamation mark symbol in the triangle so I assume it must have a fault condition of some sort. The seal on the box had been broken and the tape on the plastic bag it is wrapped in was peeling off so likely had been opened before, so I can't help wondering whether this is a returns item that has been sent back out again. Looks like I will be returning it.

[Mr. Scram]

I ordered one from the Maplin outlet via Amazon and received it today. It comes without any probes which seems not to be mentioned anywhere. It would have been helpful for this to have been stated. While somewhat irritating it turns out that it did not matter in this case. This particular unit does not appear to be recognized by Windows over USB. Nothing  comes up when I plug it in to the USB port and it is not listed as a USB device when I select the USB connection in the software. There is a light under the exclamation mark symbol in the triangle so I assume it must have a fault condition of some sort. The seal on the box had been broken and the tape on the plastic bag it is wrapped in was peeling off so likely had been opened before, so I can't help wondering whether this is a returns item that has been sent back out again. Looks like I will be returning it.

The exclamation mark means that a possible difference in earth potential is detected between USB and probe. Fraser warned us about this a few pages ago. I thought I posted about the probes not being included, but I can't seem to find my post, so I guess that didn't get posted correctly somehow. Even though it's a bit curious not to include them, especially considering the original price of the unit, the Velleman product videos are upfront about what's included.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/vellerman-wfs210-wireless-oscilloscope-for-only-20-!/msg1312999/#msg1312999

[WaveyDipole]

The exclamation mark means that a possible difference in earth potential is detected between USB and probe. Fraser warned us about this a few pages ago.

Thanks for the clarification, although this light came on immediately when powering up and without a probe being connected, so there would not have been the conditions present to detect anything at this point?

I thought I posted about the probes not being included, but I can't seem to find my post, so I guess that didn't get posted correctly somehow. Even though it's a bit curious not to include them, especially considering the original price of the unit, the Velleman product videos are upfront about what's included.

Thanks for highlighting this in your previous post. Cheap probes are available on eBay if one is prepared to wait a couple of weeks for them to arrive from the far east, so its not that big a deal, especially at this reduced price, but it just would have been helpful to have had at least one basic cheap probe included with the unit. At the original price I would definitely have expected one.

BTW, I also tend to agree with your comments to 3db. This seems more of a case of a poor product that did not sell at the expected price and the vendor is now trying to shift their stockpile. Maybe I have a dud unit or an early problematic firmware. Whatever the case, this thread has been upfront in pointing out that this device is not without its problems so although disappointing, this was not entirely unexpected. Caveat emptor!

[medical-nerd]

Hiya

The exclamation mark means that a possible difference in earth potential is detected between USB and probe. Fraser warned us about this a few pages ago.

Thanks for the clarification, although this light came on immediately when powering up and without a probe being connected, so there would not have been the conditions present to detect anything at this point?

From the user manual - the light with the exclamation mark indicates:
"
USB / Charger connected.
Caution: Probe ground and charger ground at different voltage level.
Never use the WFS210 with a USB connection when the signal source is
powered trough USB.
"

So it is not an error message but indicating that there is a USB connection and that other USB connected devices should now not be probed by the device.

Cheers

[R_G_B_]

There seems to be other wireless oscilloscope on the market
This one's Bluetooth

Sampling rates only 2 meg samples but they seemed to have done a more functionality than the velleman regarding software
http://bluedso.com