Author Topic: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!  (Read 1258 times)

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Online ali6x944

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Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« on: July 27, 2017, 01:20:25 AM »
Hi everyone,
I have purchased a DS1054Z scope in Feb 07, 2016 form a eBay store by the name tool-boom, with it came a 3 year warranty and the full list of items that suppose to come with the scope.
I have this scope for almost the second year and it have never failed me once, except 3 week ago when the vertical ranging problem of CH2 of the scope started, I tried the other 3 channels and they were fine, and didn't have such problems.
the problem is incredibly strange in which the ranges from 760mv/div to 3.3v/div with fine adjust or 1v/div to 2v/div in coarse adjust worked fine, and displayed expected 3.00v square wive @ 1KHz cal signal, below 760mV/div or above 3.3v/div in fine adjust and the scope max out the trace and dose not show the signal, yet the the scope returns to displaying signal normally at 35.5v/div to 100v/div in fine adjust or 50v/div to 100v/div in coarse adjust.
note that I didn't update the firmware from the current version 00.04.03.sp2.
I contacted on July 5,2017 rigol and they didn't contact me with anything useful to me or contributing to solve my problem since...
if anyone have faced a similar problem and knows a solution please post...
thanks.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 01:25:47 AM by ali6x944 »
 

Online alm

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #1 on: July 27, 2017, 02:45:00 AM »
Sounds like something might be open in the input attenuator. Was it exposed to any voltages beyond its maximum input ratings, taking into account frequency derating?

Is it still in warranty? Then Rigol might be the place to go. Shipping it back to them may be expensive.
 
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Offline georges80

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #2 on: July 27, 2017, 03:05:14 AM »
There's clicking relay sounds as I flip the 1054z that I have access to when I go from 2V to 5V per division and from 2.8V to 2.85 up/down (on fine) - obviously range changes going on in the input stage.

Do you get the correct relay 'click' sound on the bad channel? Compare to a good channel.

Maybe a relay is not operating or contacts are 'dirty'. I've seen small signal relays sometimes fail as the internal contacts oxidize (so they click but the contact electrical path remains 'open').

But, if under warranty, that may be your best bet, other than shipping costs as was mentioned above.

cheers,
george.
My 'job': www.taskled.com
 
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Online ali6x944

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #3 on: July 27, 2017, 03:08:41 AM »
Sounds like something might be open in the input attenuator. Was it exposed to any voltages beyond its maximum input ratings, taking into account frequency derating?

Is it still in warranty? Then Rigol might be the place to go. Shipping it back to them may be expensive.
I was measuring will in its capability, I was doing measurements in 5v range @~4MHz for the NSC800N computer project I'm doing, I was powering the circuit from an isolated supply, and I was using all the channels and as I said all of them worked fine, until I turned the scope on in another session and pressed AUTO key and since then its like that...
and for the warranty yes it is in warranty.
 

Online ali6x944

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #4 on: July 27, 2017, 03:12:34 AM »
There's clicking relay sounds as I flip the 1054z that I have access to when I go from 2V to 5V per division and from 2.8V to 2.85 up/down (on fine) - obviously range changes going on in the input stage.

Do you get the correct relay 'click' sound on the bad channel? Compare to a good channel.

Maybe a relay is not operating or contacts are 'dirty'. I've seen small signal relays sometimes fail as the internal contacts oxidize (so they click but the contact electrical path remains 'open').

But, if under warranty, that may be your best bet, other than shipping costs as was mentioned above.

cheers,
george.
Yes there is a relay click sound but with no difference to the good channel...
 

Online ali6x944

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #5 on: July 27, 2017, 12:59:04 PM »
Note that the scope measures correctly at the working ranges in CH2 compared against other channels...
But max out in the faulty ranges... :-BROKE
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 06:11:48 PM by ali6x944 »
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #6 on: July 27, 2017, 06:39:56 PM »
Note that the scope measures correctly at the working ranges in CH2 compared against other channels...
But max out in the faulty ranges... :-BROKE

Broken, maxxed out after the relay switches on that channel?
 
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Online ebastler

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #7 on: July 27, 2017, 08:16:42 PM »
the problem is incredibly strange in which the ranges from 760mv/div to 3.3v/div with fine adjust or 1v/div to 2v/div in coarse adjust worked fine, and displayed expected 3.00v square wive @ 1KHz cal signal, below 760mV/div or above 3.3v/div in fine adjust and the scope max out the trace and dose not show the signal, yet the the scope returns to displaying signal normally at 35.5v/div to 100v/div in fine adjust or 50v/div to 100v/div in coarse adjust.

That is indeed a strange problem scenario. It is not clear from your description to what extent you have gone back and forth, and have been able to solidly confirm the systematic dependency you describe. (Vs. maybe being tricked by intermittent faults, which might have led you to wrong conclusions.) Hence, my apologies if you have already ruled out the following:

When you state that the problem occurs on CH2 only, have you exluded the possibility that it is tied to the probe, rather than the scope's input channel? Have you used another probe, or a BNC cable, on CH2 and still seen the error?

(The Rigol standard probes are known to sometimes have problems with the 1x/10x range switch. A remaining plastic burr from the injection molding process prevents the switch from being moved all the way, causing unexpected jumps in the signal level. It is quite conceivable that this problem only shows up over time, as the switch contacts loosen up.)
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #8 on: July 27, 2017, 09:23:39 PM »
Warmi up for half an hour and start autocal... See what it says..
 
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Offline GeorgeCh

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #9 on: July 27, 2017, 11:02:47 PM »
I had the same problem on CH2. After a few hours of debugging  |O  I  found the culprits:two transistors. To this day I dont know for sure what the cause for this fault was, because I was working with low voltage circuits. I replaced them with MMBT2222(all I had close to the original) and the scope worked again.
See the attached photo for the fault I had. I really hope this helps you.

PS:Dave,be blessed by the holy trinity- RLC  :-DD because if not for your DaveCAD I'm sure I couldn't repair this nice scope.
« Last Edit: July 27, 2017, 11:04:41 PM by GeorgeCh »
 
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Online ali6x944

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #10 on: July 27, 2017, 11:57:14 PM »
Thanks GeorgeCh for awesome suggestion :-+
but I don't have smd transistors and I don't want to void the warranty, but still awesome work m8 :-+
Note that the scope measures correctly at the working ranges in CH2 compared against other channels...
But max out in the faulty ranges... :-BROKE

Broken, maxxed out after the relay switches on that channel?

no, its maxed out as the relay switches...

Warmi up for half an hour and start autocal... See what it says..
I tried but with no luck, the autocal stays stuck in CH2 testing for hours without changing....

the problem is incredibly strange in which the ranges from 760mv/div to 3.3v/div with fine adjust or 1v/div to 2v/div in coarse adjust worked fine, and displayed expected 3.00v square wive @ 1KHz cal signal, below 760mV/div or above 3.3v/div in fine adjust and the scope max out the trace and dose not show the signal, yet the the scope returns to displaying signal normally at 35.5v/div to 100v/div in fine adjust or 50v/div to 100v/div in coarse adjust.

That is indeed a strange problem scenario. It is not clear from your description to what extent you have gone back and forth, and have been able to solidly confirm the systematic dependency you describe. (Vs. maybe being tricked by intermittent faults, which might have led you to wrong conclusions.) Hence, my apologies if you have already ruled out the following:

When you state that the problem occurs on CH2 only, have you exluded the possibility that it is tied to the probe, rather than the scope's input channel? Have you used another probe, or a BNC cable, on CH2 and still seen the error?

(The Rigol standard probes are known to sometimes have problems with the 1x/10x range switch. A remaining plastic burr from the injection molding process prevents the switch from being moved all the way, causing unexpected jumps in the signal level. It is quite conceivable that this problem only shows up over time, as the switch contacts loosen up.)
I tried changing the probe but with no change, connecting it to the cal and lift it floating but no change,  I tested the probes independently with both my multimeter and the fine channels in the scope...
the probes were fine.
I tried no probes yet the problem is still present.
 

Online ali6x944

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #11 on: July 29, 2017, 08:23:31 PM »
I will post a video detailing the problem soon....
 

Online Fungus

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #12 on: July 29, 2017, 09:46:22 PM »
Sounds to me like the relay's stuck. Give it a good whack, see if that fixes it.

:popcorn:


(No, don't. I'm only posting this to horrify people. OTOH it might work, you never know...)

 
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Online ali6x944

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2017, 04:48:18 PM »
Sounds to me like the relay's stuck. Give it a good whack, see if that fixes it.

:popcorn:


(No, don't. I'm only posting this to horrify people. OTOH it might work, you never know...)


I think I'll do it...
its a month since I contacted RIGOL but no replay... :(
 

Online ali6x944

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #14 on: August 11, 2017, 10:48:06 AM »
The costumer service in Rigol is not the best |O
But what can you do....
 

Online alm

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #15 on: August 11, 2017, 12:02:07 PM »
Stop buying from them and switch to manufacturers providing decent service?
 
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Online Fungus

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2017, 07:04:13 PM »
Stop buying from them and switch to manufacturers providing decent service?

At only three times the price.
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #17 on: August 11, 2017, 07:40:13 PM »
OP bought equipment from Hong Kong into Saudi Arabia, that has no official partner for the country.
Standard procedure is to return product to company that sold him equipment (Tool Boom). Only if you have problem with them, then manufacturer will step in.

Not many manufacturers have global warranty that will accept product for sales in Asia, privately imported in to country, and then given for service to some other country...
Good luck with that, even with big brands.

Also, if he bought Keysight in Saudi Arabia, not only his start price for the scope would 3x more, but local sales channel have huuuuge markups.. His price would be easily 6x more...
High enough to just buy new Rigol and say: "ehh.. better luck next time.." And still saved a lot of money...

Also, it is not known whether input channel defect is factory defect (for warranty) or maybe a damage to input during measurements... Inputs are CAT I 300V RMS and not that hard to damage... So maybe it isn't a warranty claim, but a service request..
In which case Rigol should have responded with instructions what to do and what are his options.

 
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Online alm

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #18 on: August 11, 2017, 09:59:28 PM »
They should at least respond to e-mails in a timely manner. If you keep buying from companies that provide poor service, they have no incentive to improve. Are there no other affordable manufacturers like GW-Instek, Siglent or Micseg who provide better service?
 
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Online ali6x944

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2017, 05:18:59 PM »
OP bought equipment from Hong Kong into Saudi Arabia, that has no official partner for the country.
Standard procedure is to return product to company that sold him equipment (Tool Boom). Only if you have problem with them, then manufacturer will step in.

Not many manufacturers have global warranty that will accept product for sales in Asia, privately imported in to country, and then given for service to some other country...
Good luck with that, even with big brands.

Also, if he bought Keysight in Saudi Arabia, not only his start price for the scope would 3x more, but local sales channel have huuuuge markups.. His price would be easily 6x more...
High enough to just buy new Rigol and say: "ehh.. better luck next time.." And still saved a lot of money...

Also, it is not known whether input channel defect is factory defect (for warranty) or maybe a damage to input during measurements... Inputs are CAT I 300V RMS and not that hard to damage... So maybe it isn't a warranty claim, but a service request..
In which case Rigol should have responded with instructions what to do and what are his options.


True, absolutely true...
This is what I faced when I bought my scope  |O
Just to note I contacted toolboom first and they said contact rigol, furthermore is unlikely that CH2 got damaged from measurement except if you would consider 5v high voltage...
 

Online ali6x944

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2017, 05:31:17 PM »
They should at least respond to e-mails in a timely manner. If you keep buying from companies that provide poor service, they have no incentive to improve. Are there no other affordable manufacturers like GW-Instek, Siglent or Micseg who provide better service?
I don't think that rigol's costumer service is that bad, because I had an issue with the alligator lead of the probe, they response time was relatively quick,but this time for a much more important problem the response time is pretty pathetic compared with last time...
I would say there is a lot of variability in the time response, which is highly annoying from a costumer point of view.
 

Online ali6x944

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #21 on: August 13, 2017, 01:44:56 AM »
So far rigol's efforts are  :palm: worthy...
 

Online ali6x944

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Re: Vertical Ranging problem in a RIGOL DS1054Z!!!
« Reply #22 on: August 14, 2017, 04:06:03 AM »
I think they are just taking too long to reply... :-//
 


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