Author Topic: What else can I do with RIGOL DS1054Z appart from measuring waveforms?  (Read 4753 times)

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Offline Athanasis

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Hi guys. This is a broad thread, but I would really like to ask if I can use some math functions to plot graphs (simple X-Y axis) with RIGOL DS1054Z.

In particular, I am looking into plotting the graph of dependence of Frequency coming from Channel 1 (X-axis) on  Voltage coming from Channel 2 (y - axis).

e.g Provided that input values change, is it possible to produce something similar to this with this oscilloscope in real time ?



 

Offline ebastler

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If your oscillator frequency is controlled by a voltage, you could use that voltage for the X axis instead of the frequency. In that case the scope can measure and display the two voltages directly, in X/Y mode. (The DS1054Z is not great for X/Y mode though, since it always reserves part of the display for the time trace.)

If you need to measure the frequency and use that in the plot, I don't think the scope can generate such a plot on its own. This would be a typical task for a PC-controlled automated measurement setup: Have the PC control your oscillator and scope, e.g. using LabView, and collect and plot the results on the PC.
 

Offline Athanasis

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Hi ebastler. Yes thanks for giving light on the X/Y mode function of oscilloscopes. It is not a big deal that frequency has to be voltage on the X axis  :bullshit:. I can construct a simple Voltage to Frequency circuit (there are a couple of ICs around that can do this) and then perform the measurements  :-DMM.

My main concern is that as you said, the DS1054Z is not great in X/Y mode, but I will try to test this my self to see how it shows.  :-BROKE


 

Offline Fungus

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You can get frequency-to-voltage converters...

http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lm2907-n.pdf

But yes, it's a little bit outside what oscilloscopes are designed to do out-of-the-box (and not just the DS1054Z).

 

Offline ebastler

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...  I can construct a simple Voltage to Frequency circuit (there are a couple of ICs around that can do this) and then perform the measurements  :-DMM.

Yes, that should work well.

Not sure how you had originally planned to obtain the scanned frequency signal? If you have an old-fashioned frequency generator with sweep function, it might have a sweep reference output which also supplies a voltage that is proportioal to the frequency. (For use with your favorite analog chart recorder ;).) I don't know how modern function generators implement this, since all I have ever used are older analog models, but would assume that they also offer this kind of reference output?
 

Offline ebclr

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Did you check the FFT function ?
« Reply #5 on: May 27, 2016, 11:32:27 PM »
There is Amplitude by frequency
 

Online rstofer

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What you are basically looking for is a Network Analyzer - amplitude versus frequency.  This is one of the features built in to the Digilent Analog Discovery.  See what I did there?  I got a plug in for what I consider the most useful gadget on my bench.  And I have the DS1054Z...  Different tools for different applications, I guess.

On the 1054, XY mode appears to be an afterthought and the display is rather limited.  I haven't pushed all the buttons but I was able to plot a circle from a sin(t) and cos(t) pair of inputs.  I really didn't need the YT display at the top of the screen but I didn't find a button to get rid of it and expand the XY display.  Still, it worked.

I plan to use XY quite a bit.  I may not be doing it on the DS1054Z.
 
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Offline ebastler

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Re: Did you check the FFT function ?
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2016, 02:12:16 AM »
There is Amplitude by frequency

???
Could you elaborate, please? Are you referring to an operating mode of the DS1054Z, or of frequency generators?
 

Offline Athanasis

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Re: Did you check the FFT function ?
« Reply #8 on: May 28, 2016, 02:46:07 AM »

Thank you friends.

Point is that frequency to voltage converters would not combine perfectly with the X-Y mode of any oscilloscope. X-Y mode spits out only a dot at any particular moment. It does not make whole graph curves on linear (one off) DC fluctuations between 2 points of a circuit.  ! 

I was thinking, If I could export the X & Y voltage Values into 2 respective columns in an Excel spreadsheet, then I could easily construct a graph (in Excel). I don't know if anyone knows how to do this e.g. using DS1054Z USB to PC connection !

There is Amplitude by frequency

I don't get you ebclr. What do you mean? Where?
 

Offline ebclr

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Offline ebastler

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[FFT screenshot]

Ah -- but that is very different from what the OP wants to measure. What Athanasis is looking for (I understand) is a graph showing how a system reacts to different input frequencies which are applied sequentially, one after the other. In contrast, the FFT shows what frequencies are present simultaneously in an input signal which is a complex mix of different frequency components.
 

Offline Athanasis

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Yes, FFT is a different thing. It is like a spectrum analyzer of a single input. I was talking about graphical representation of 2 inputs on Y and X axis !  :-+
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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(photograph of fft screen display)


What you really have to ask yourself....   ;)   .... is how to get a _useful_  FFT display (and image thereof) from your DS1054z:

The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Yes, FFT is a different thing. It is like a spectrum analyzer of a single input. I was talking about graphical representation of 2 inputs on Y and X axis !  :-+

DSOs, especially low-end ones, are just not very good at displaying X-Y mode. The DS1054z is especially frustrating since you can't even show the X-Y display in a fullscreen window. But by fooling around with the settings you can usually get a semi-reasonable X-Y mode display. Still not as good as what you can get from a decent analog scope though.

You can always dump your trace data to a spreadsheet-readable file and then make your graphs from that. But to do it in realtime on the scope screen.... that will take some doing, such as using the frequency-to-voltage converter mentioned above, and then you will still be limited by the x-y display mode functionality of whatever scope you are using.


The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline smbaker

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In particular, I am looking into plotting the graph of dependence of Frequency coming from Channel 1 (X-axis) on  Voltage coming from Channel 2 (y - axis).

What you're describing is not unlike aligning a radio using a sweep generator and an oscilloscope. The sweep generator produces a sweeping frequency to drive the device under test, as well as a voltage signal to drive the X axis of a scope. The output of the device under test then goes to the scope's Y input.

I tried doing this using the XY mode on my DS1054Z, but quickly realized my old analog BK precision scope buried in a box in the garage would be more suitable and switched to that. If you want to see a really good demo of radio alignment on an analog scope, see w2aew's video, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-A_DxsxPdeI. The good news is that you can pick up sweep generators and analog scopes pretty cheap on ebay if you desire.
 

Offline nctnico

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Is there a WAV file out there for that scope clock?
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Fungus

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What you really have to ask yourself....   ;)   .... is how to get a _useful_  FFT display (and image thereof) from your DS1054z:

Here we go... the Rigol bashers have arrived in the thread.  :scared:
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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What you really have to ask yourself....   ;)   .... is how to get a _useful_  FFT display (and image thereof) from your DS1054z:

Here we go... the Rigol actual users have arrived in the thread.   :clap:

Fixed that for you.
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline alsetalokin4017

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Is there a WAV file out there for that scope clock?

The scope clock display is generated in realtime by a kit available (sometimes) from Dutchtronix.
http://www.dutchtronix.com/ScopeClock.htm
The easiest person to fool is yourself. -- Richard Feynman
 

Offline nctnico

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Buying a kit is a bit overkill to just text/play with XY mode.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline smbaker

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The scope clock display is generated in realtime by a kit available (sometimes) from Dutchtronix.
http://www.dutchtronix.com/ScopeClock.htm

Thanks. Now that $30 isn't burning a hole in my pocket anymore.

Buying a kit is a bit overkill to just text/play with XY mode.

That's what Lissajous patterns are for! A couple of frequency generators is all it takes.
 

Online rstofer

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I bought my DS1054Z for the purpose of using the 4 channels to display the SPI bus AND for the single trigger digital storage features that I can use with my Analog Computer.  I have attached a screenshot of Damped Harmonic Motion (a second order differential equation) as well as a snapshot of the front panel of my tiny AC.  Next up, track down the noise and, once that is understood, I want a larger AC.

The DS1054Z will be perfect for my applications.  Absolutely perfect!
 
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Offline Athanasis

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What you're describing is not unlike aligning a radio using a sweep generator and an oscilloscope............

I ve got this, which has a sweep generator function.



Point is that I don't know how I can get a frequency to voltage out of this thing.
 

Offline Athanasis

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.....You can always dump your trace data to a spreadsheet-readable file and then make your graphs from that.....


Wonderful clock view on the analogue screen !!!!

Thank you for your advice. The best way is to dump the data into spreadsheet and then make the graphs in excel. There is a USB port in front of my DS1054Z. I bet I can use a USB memory stick to dump the data...

 

Offline Athanasis

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What you really have to ask yourself....   ;)   .... is how to get a _useful_  FFT display (and image thereof) from your DS1054z:

Here we go... the Rigol bashers have arrived in the thread.  :scared:

Those who bash the rigol on FFT are missing something here. Even Dave made an unfair comparison in this video:


This is because Dave in his comparison didn't use the Deep Memory feature (switching the mode from "Trace" to "Memory") available in new Rigol DS1054Z firmware versions (Dave you were unfair and many people believed in your review).  This is how you get the real FFT on the DS1054Z

« Last Edit: May 28, 2016, 04:24:06 PM by Athanasis »
 
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