What make DMM so expensive

[pomonabill221]

Is decent quality DMM is overpriced? (fluke,Agilent,..)


why some DMM more expensive than entry level Osciloscope?

DMM's deal with precision and high voltage/current, a cheap scope does not.

Any scope does not have the precision of a good DMM, even the measurement readout on a scope doesn't have the resolution that a DMM has.

[Mehran]

There is loads of DMM out there. Fluke charge what they do because that's is what people are willing to pay. Fluke make a ddm, they market it and set a price...you as a consumer are free to buy any DMM you want. its business... if they ask to much or if the product is not up to snuff they will loss sales which will be the signal for them to lower there price or increase quality. witness Fluke making the 15b and 17b...

the idea that because its cost x to make or buy you should charge x + penny is just silly

there is cheaper and equally safe/usable meters out there. I have just ordered a brymen (a greenlee branded one) for my self. a perfectly usable safe off brand DMM... it wll be used for my hobby's and work with 240VAC.

[pomonabill221]

Another, often overlooked item, is the warranty and replacement of a cheap vs. expensive meter, and the capability of NIST calibration option.
Most, if not all, cheapies don't have this and the warranty may only be 90 days and limited at that.
All factors that have been mentioned add up to the overall cost.  The name IS what you are paying for, but behind the name is ALOT of items that add up and is what counts as far as the cost.

[electronics man]

Ther is lots more tech that goes into a scope lots of flags several asics a big LCD lots of Front end stuff how the hell could that cost less than a microcontroller and some other stuff and also for £300 a dmm should be perfect and no cheep stuff like 9v batteries as found in the fluke 87 even extech did it right with 2 AA batteries as found in the ex330.

[Len]

Ther is lots more tech that goes into a scope lots of flags several asics a big LCD lots of Front end stuff how the hell could that cost less than a microcontroller and some other stuff and also for £300 a dmm should be perfect and no cheep stuff like 9v batteries as found in the fluke 87 even extech did it right with 2 AA batteries as found in the ex330.

Geez, are you even reading this thread?? Much of the cost is not in the chips & wires. And ...

Never mind, I was just about to waste my time re-iterating what others have already said, which you ignored the first time. 

[Circuitous]

Ther is lots more tech that goes into a scope lots of flags several asics a big LCD lots of Front end stuff how the hell could that cost less than a microcontroller and some other stuff and also for £300 a dmm should be perfect and no cheep stuff like 9v batteries as found in the fluke 87 even extech did it right with 2 AA batteries as found in the ex330.

Geez, are you even reading this thread?? Much of the cost is not in the chips & wires. And ...

Never mind, I was just about to waste my time re-iterating what others have already said, which you ignored the first time. 

Agreed.  Electronics Man just isn't quite tuned-in.

[han]

I have Fluke 87 (my company) , and i think the price is much to expensive ..
$349.99
reference price
www.amazon.com/Fluke-FLUKE-87-V-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B0002YFD1K
i can get a rigol DS1052E for that price

and i have try fluke 289 that more expensive ($501.72 )
reference price
http://www.amazon.com/Fluke-289-True-RMS-Logging-Multimeter/dp/B0012B51HI

from the previous thread there is some opinion:
pros:
1. Quality
2. RnD cost
3. After service price
4. Calibration

cont:
1. The Bill Of Material is not that expensive
2. Overprice because Branding

i can add some comment:
1. The DMM thechonlogy is not that high (it's not a rocket science after all)
2. The DMM is already mainstream tools ( every Engineer should have it)
3. Inside DMM only adc, microcontroler and cheap LCD..Why its should cost more than Osciloscope
ref: 24 bit ADC only cost few dolar (less then a $1 in qty)
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/NAU7802KGI/NAU7802KGI-ND/2769783

4. about RnD. i think the cost RnD of a oscilloscope way beyond magnitude of DMM. think about heavy coded FPGA , DSP, ...
5. Calibration.. every Test Equipment is calibrated, even cheap weighting scale is sometime can be traced to NIST


so the big question is it marketing trick? like more expensive phone give people confidence?

[Circuitous]

so the big question is it marketing trick? like more expensive phone give people confidence?

My turn...
   To paraphrase Len:  Did you read anything in this thread?

Honestly, that's the nicest thing I can say.

[han]

so the big question is it marketing trick? like more expensive phone give people confidence?

My turn...
   To paraphrase Len:  Did you read anything in this thread?

Honestly, that's the nicest thing I can say.

yes i read all of them.

[Circuitous]

so the big question is it marketing trick? like more expensive phone give people confidence?

My turn...
   To paraphrase Len:  Did you read anything in this thread?

Honestly, that's the nicest thing I can say.

yes i read all of them.

That's too bad.  Then I'm not sure what we can do to help you.

[pickle9000]

I don't think is as much a marketing trick as it is a simple way to make money. As with anything including the services of an EE for example. You charge enough to make your customer cringe but not enough to say no. Fluke and every company making a product is there to make money. I guess the real question is will a company come up with a competitive meter at a much lower price.

[BravoV]

My turn...
   To paraphrase Len:  Did you read anything in this thread?

The op seems just wants to hear that all of us to agree with his argument and probably want all of us to chant it too, I bet that will make him happy and content. 

[nanofrog]

I don't think is as much a marketing trick as it is a simple way to make money. As with anything including the services of an EE for example. You charge enough to make your customer cringe but not enough to say no. Fluke and every company making a product is there to make money. I guess the real question is will a company come up with a competitive meter at a much lower price.

Given all the things we see things such as reduced features, input protections, cheap leads, ... in the less expensive models in order to meet their price points, I'd be shocked if this is actually possible at current production volumes.

Even in the case of Brymen (assuming it's not a rebranded unit), I suspect most of the savings we do see are the result of using cheaper leads and lower voltage rated fuses in at least some models, and reduced warranty periods and lack of after-support (by comparison to giants such as Fluke or Agilent) across their entire lines.

Reasonable compromise for hobbyists in the case of Brymen IMHO (given the value & quality you do get), but perhaps not so much for business clients where the after support can be extremely important.

[taemun]

Not to bait the troll, but how often do you push mains voltage direct into the BNC input of your $350 Rigol?

How often do you ask it to measure mains current, with the potential that you hooked it up wrong (putting mains across the 10A fuse, rather than through it)?
(If you don't use your DMM to probe mains, don't think that no one does.)

Scopes and DMMs do different jobs, and have very different safety requirements. I would hope to not lose a hand when the DMM fuse pops.

Also, to put it bluntly - if the other companies could charge as much for their DMM as Agilent or Fluke, they would.

[Derick Freese]

I'm a beginner that only recently purchased a Fluke.  It's one of the low end utility models, but it still helps me diagnose automotive wiring safely.  A Rat Shack one blew apart on me once.  The force wasn't enough that you'd be injured, but it didn't fail safely.  For now, the only thing I'll use anything else on is low current work.

[nukie]

Find me a cheap DMM with lifetime warranty.

[pickle9000]

I don't think is as much a marketing trick as it is a simple way to make money. As with anything including the services of an EE for example. You charge enough to make your customer cringe but not enough to say no. Fluke and every company making a product is there to make money. I guess the real question is will a company come up with a competitive meter at a much lower price.

Given all the things we see things such as reduced features, input protections, cheap leads, ... in the less expensive models in order to meet their price points, I'd be shocked if this is actually possible at current production volumes.

Even in the case of Brymen (assuming it's not a rebranded unit), I suspect most of the savings we do see are the result of using cheaper leads and lower voltage rated fuses in at least some models, and reduced warranty periods and lack of after-support (by comparison to giants such as Fluke or Agilent) across their entire lines.

Reasonable compromise for hobbyists in the case of Brymen IMHO (given the value & quality you do get), but perhaps not so much for business clients where the after support can be extremely important.

I do think there are good meters out there (depending on the application of course). I also think Fluke makes a quality product and should be rewarded as long as they can keep it up. You can bet if they slip up (or any company does) there will be another one waiting to hone in on their action. Good incentive for Fluke.

[Wytnucls]

Fluke's lifetime warranty is a bit misleading. It is in fact a limited warranty:

Each Fluke 20*, 70*, 80*, 170 and 180 series DMM will be free from defects in material and workmanship for its lifetime. As used herein, "lifetime" is defined as seven years after Fluke discontinues manufacturing the product, but the warranty period shall be at least ten years from date of purchase. *(Lifetime Warranty applies to products manufactured after October 1996)
In what way is the warranty limited?
•It does not cover batteries or fuses.
•It does not cover abuse or usage outside of specifications.
•It does not cover normal wear and tear of mechanical parts.
•It covers the LCD for 10 years only (state-of-the-art for LCDs).
•It covers original user purchaser only.


Still, one of the best warranties offered by multimeter manufacturers. Agilent and Gossen instruments come with a three-year warranty only.

[PeterL]

Thes things are just mostly for professionals hobbiests don't need to touch them they are a waste of mony as you ccan get a decent cheaper one that will serve you well. I don't think fluke and Agilent has opened up to the hobiest maket yet. It would be nice if the could produce a dmm that costs about£100 it doesn't need to be as good as there other products I just think they could do very well out of it and I would defiantly get one. I feel they are missing out on a massive market.

like this one?
http://nl.farnell.com/agilent-technologies/u1231a/multimeter-digital-hand-held-4/dp/1903369

It lacks Current measurement, so you need Dave's uCurrent..

[PA4TIM]

Randmode on:

The title of the topic should be: What make DMM so cheap !!

Now you say a cheap meter is fine, so the more expensive are to expensive, while it is often the opposite. They make a design and then try to find everything that can not be left out. The thing must at least survive the first hours (you do not want to loose your  ebay rating, will you ?) and then just let out the rest.
Let the marketing department make the specs with a lot of typicals in it, and put it in a nice colored giftbox.

End control, if there is any, is more to look if it does power up, indicating that probably not to many parts are forgotton to place in the meter. And solve some design faults with the shortest peace of wire .

Do you now why the cabinets are often screwed with parker srews or just clicked together ? That is only because ducktape is to expensive compared to the meter. 

Good A-grade instruments are not to expensive, a lot of instruments today are just to cheap. (You get tears in your eyes from reading the specs ,as far as you can call that specs)

And why is lousy build, not accurate, stable and unsafe good enough for hobby use ? Is it not bad if a hobbyist is killed by an unsave meter ?  Does a hobbyist not make stuff that needs accurate meters ? So expensive vacations, camara's, cars, stereo's, computers are also only for proffessionals. Spending more on Beer as your mulimeter is normal ?

For instance input protection, isolation of probes, a decent selected, A-grade and aged Voltage reference, precision resistors and shunts, precision high isolation low leakage relais, good quality pcb, good low leakage coating, some are even ultrasonic cleaned before mounting in a cabinet, (mu-metal) RF shielding, guarding, low seebeck metals and connections, Decent design regarding leakage, mechanical stress, seebeck etc, quality soldering, components that are not on the edge or beyond of the SOA, decent calibration and testing.

And for those who do not get it and only look at parts. I needed a precision 0.01% resistor for a repair. That was 34 euro, but an alternative that came very close to the original  would have costed me 130 dollars (and there where 5 of those in that instrument, the manufacturer will get them cheaper but it will be still expensive, or what about a good precision low tempco 10A shunt (can be over 50 dollar) , or a decent Fuse, That shunt will be more expensive as many cheapo multimeter, an aged LM399 or LTZ1000 is more expensive as a cheap meter. The price from many precission parts is unkown because they are on contract and often handpicked and measured, or aged. And good low EMF solid mount bananabusses are also expensive, just like good probes that will not give problems within a few years or weeks like the thick plastic one strand toys.

I do not believe in bang for bucks and if it is cheap it must be good and the rest does not matter. We left that area long ago when cheap was often a bit simpler, less features, not so pretty looking but still not bad, still save and very usable. Today if we buy Chinese junk we say, it's real good, I had to make some mods that can kill me or the meter, but hey, it's cheap so its cool. It was cheap so who cares it blows up in your face, it's cheap so who cares it's 100% off at low battery level. It's cheap so who cares the probe resistance is variable around 10 Ohm,It has a very fast beeper and the rest is not important.

Or: There was a tear down of this meter, It was the first meter the teardown guy owned and he's in to electronics for two weeks now,  so it must be good, he measured a 9V battery and the meter showed 9V, isn't that awsom. He even measured 110V and it did not explode in his hands so it must be save. It was on you tube so it must be tru, It was cheap and I want to think it is good, so I believe everything. It beeps fast so it must be good, it does not wobble on its stand, what more do you want ? We have a winner....
But why do I even care....

[han]

When your income per month is less than a decent FLUKE DMM then you will consider it not cheap.
the problem is the income gap is very large between country.

If they can  buy I phone and say DMM is expensive. then its a insult to the DMM maker.
but if the average income per MONTH is less then a Decent DMM than is fair to say it expensive..

I work with many T&M with price tag over 100K but my salary is less than unemployment benefits in USA..

I use low priced DMM for my hobby,a and i find is horribly designed.
I want a good DMM, i want a good Oscilloscope for my hobby purpose, why is so expensive...


I don't set my flag. because i not proud of it...

[idpromnut]

When your income per month is less than a decent FLUKE DMM then you will consider it not cheap.
the problem is the income gap is very large between country.

I can understand that the absolute prices are out of grasp for you, but I think that is a different problem from why are high-end DMMs so expensive.

As a side note, one of our members recently took a look at a ~21$USD multimeter from Uni-T (the UT136B I think it was) and found that it was reasonably built and not bad at all, even for the price.  Since I don't know where you are located, I will say that auctions/ebay/surplus stores can be a good source of equipment, as well as local flea markets and ham meet-ups.

[TiN]

Electronics hobby is always expensive Deal with that or quit wanting fluke/agilent tools which made for those who earn on this for living, etc .
And one single LTZ1000 makes DMM 54$ more expensive

[madires]

How long did Fluke need to acknowledge and fix the problem with the data port and bright ambient light in the 287/289 (US$450/500 DMMs)? I wouldn't pay a premium for that kind of support.

[han]

I own UNI-T and the refresh rate is so slow, and i have to overclock it https://www.eevblog.com/forum/Smileys/default/facepalm.gif

i swap the 4MHz x tal with 12Mhz crystal . and it faster than Fluke 78 ) ..but the freq and capacitance measurement became wierd...

and with FLUKE 289 . i find something weird and funny   .. when i use FLUKE 289 in loZ it have a ghost voltage (read about 2.78V ))...
a ghost voltage in mode that supposed to avoid the effect..

sorry for the out of topics but for the What make DMM so expensive answer  i expect some original answer like the gold plating in the switch or something basic...