Which Spectrum analyzer would you get?

[luckyflyer]

Trying to decide which spectrum analyzer to get.

[pascal_sweden]

Why didn't you put the Rigol DSA815-TG in the list?

BTW: I noticed that Rigol launched an Economy version of the DSA832, called the DSA832E.
Does anybody know here on the forum what the difference is between the E version and the normal version? I could not find the difference based on the specifications

[jjoonathan]

DSA832E combines the dirt-slow update rate of the DSA815 with the sky-high price of the DSA832.

[pascal_sweden]

I understand that the Siglent wins miles from the Rigol if the low-end model can be "upgraded" to the high-end model

[razberik]

I am in favor of old 8560E, because I simply love ancient instruments built like tank.

[joeqsmith]

I keep looking at the Signal Hound to replace one of my old relics.  Looks like they offer a tracking generator. 

   

[Wuerstchenhund]

Trying to decide which spectrum analyzer to get.

Any reason why your choice is between an old HP antique and a Chinese B-brand? I mean, not that the HP is a bad instrument, but there are various other alternatives on the market.

You also didn't say what you want to do with it, what RF performance or features you want, or what bandwidth you require. Or what your budget is.

If I had to choose between these two then I'd go for the HP if it's in good condition (but I'd never pay anywhere near $1900 for it), simply because it's superior RF performance and because I don't trust Siglent with firmware. If not then I'd take neither of them as not too long ago I paid less than $1k for a 13.2GHz Anritsu SA manufactured in 2012.

[rf-loop]

I understand that the Siglent wins miles from the Rigol if the low-end model can be "upgraded" to the high-end model

And if it stay 2.1GHz (SSA3021X) it still outperform Rigol  clearly if we compare DSA815.  SSA3021X and SSA3032X are just  same in all things exept frequency.
In all other things they are same, not like low-end and high-end if think how we normally classify things to "low-end", "high-end" and "state of art" categories.  All these spectrums, whole DSA800 serie and SSA3000X series are in "low-end" category if we talk stand alone table top spectrum analyzers. Bit, there is "low-end" category SSA3000X is in top corner, far over DSA815.

Just only one example:
Due to low near carrier phase noise down to < -90dBc/Hz @100Hz distance from carrier (-91dBc/Hz in this image including RBW normalization to 1Hz and then +2.5dB correction for 1Hz noise BW)  you really can use RBW10Hz
You can not do there just anything with  DSA815. Same if you try put cow to fly.

This is standard SSA3021X out from factory box.  Trace A, signal from HP8644B free running with its own internal reference and SSA free running with its own reference. Trace B signal from SSA own 10MHz reference out. (this is from very different work but it can use also here as example.)
In this image trace C is also on but not visible but it is there if move screen to more down, C is there for detect displayed average base noise level (in this case -127dBm/Hz)

[nctnico]

If I had to choose between these two then I'd go for the HP if it's in good condition (but I'd never pay anywhere near $1900 for it), simply because it's superior RF performance and because I don't trust Siglent with firmware. If not then I'd take neither of them as not too long ago I paid less than $1k for a 13.2GHz Anritsu SA manufactured in 2012.

Same here. I had a similar choice recently and I went for proven technology. Good deals on spectrum analysers from Anritsu and Advantest (both Japanese) can be found on Ebay so no need to put up with incomplete firmware.

[JPortici]

I think I would go with older hardware, provided it's calibrated and tested, because it would be easier to service...

Even though the new siglent looks very promising both in the teardown (set of separated boards so in case of servicing worst case scenario you replace the input board/the acquisition board/the TG board/ power supply, ...) and in the software updates that are happening very fast and all the software features

If it's an old uncalibrated spectrum analyzer... no i will go for the siglent.

[Wuerstchenhund]

I think I would go with older hardware, provided it's calibrated and tested, because it would be easier to service...

Tested, sure, but I don't care if it comes with a calibration certificate or not.

If it's an old uncalibrated spectrum analyzer... no i will go for the siglent.

I wouldn't. Not every older SA requires constant re-adjustment to maintain its specs. Especially instruments made in 2000 and later usually exhibit excellent long-term spec adherence, and many come with self-calibration functionality that compensates for any parameter shifts due to ageing. There also isn't a lot to adjust in a newer SAs anyways.

And as calibration is concerned, good luck trying to get a Rigol or Siglent SA calibrated by anyone else than the manufacturer. Most bigger calibration facilities won't touch them if you require traceable calibration.

[dxl]

Over the last year i bought a HP 71910A Wideband Receiver (which basically is a 26.5GHz Spectrum Analyzer with up to 100MHz Bandwidth) for about ~2K. While this device is about 30 years old and probably wasn't calibrated during the last years, it still matches the Keysight MXA i have at work which is calibrated periodically. So i would also go with an older SA except if size and weight is important. The old HP SAs are build like a tank, but also much heavier than any Siglent/Rigol.

[pascal_sweden]

The user interface on these old devices, doesn't look bad at all. On the contrary, it looks beautiful!

[tautech]

The user interface on these old devices, doesn't look bad at all. On the contrary, it looks beautiful!

That image only shows the GUI, not the UI.

[Siglent America]

"And as calibration is concerned, good luck trying to get a Rigol or Siglent SA calibrated by anyone else than the manufacturer. Most bigger calibration facilities won't touch them if you require traceable calibration."

In North America, Transcat is a calibration partner with Siglent. They have 23 calibration labs in the USA, Canada, and the Caribbean. They do offer traceable certified calibration.

[1design]

Maybe I am the only one that thinks boat anchors are mostly for anchoring boats. Most of them have unobatnium front ends, custom bonded mixers/attenuators and other components. Many have dried capacitors all over them etc. I think they are a wonderful way of spending time working on them if that is the goal. A nice repair and the feeling of satisfaction that comes with it is something I can understand and have experienced before.

If I look from a user perspective, I would never buy something I am dubious about its reliability due to normal aging. Especially when I need to do other projects with it and don't want to spend additional time on something I already spent a lot of money on. Maybe it is just me, since I see instruments as tools, I guess if you are a carpenter you don't want to spend 20-30% of your time fixing your saw or being afraid it might brake soon.

It is like buying an old car for the sake of fixing it, then it is a project not a usable every day car that you use to drive to work and run errands.

BR

[luckyflyer]

Point taken, the reason I listed these 2 in the poll is because they are the 2 that I've done my research on. These two represent in some ways the two ends of the spectrum if you will (pun intended). Meaning on the one hand we have an over built American unit with great performance and reliability, a proven track record whose main draw back is its age. On the other hand a lightly built and likely a well engineered Chinese unit with not nearly the history of the Hp units and questions of support by some regarding firmware etc. I acknowledge that there are many good choices out there but constraints on my time have limited me to these two. I'm not in a big hurry so as time permits I will start investigating some of the other brands.

Regarding the Anritsu my question would be do they have the numbers of in service units that Hp/Agilent/Keysight has. Is there the base of knowledge and spare parts available for the Anritsu that there is for the old Hp's? And finally do they hold their value. These factor weigh heavily with me and are questions that will be ask of any brand I consider.
Regarding the what are you going to do with it question. Initially it will be used for HF work checking filters and band pass shapes, looking for spurs etc. Mundane stuff really, but it would be nice to have an analyzer that has the ability grow as my needs expand. That is where the Siglent has an advantage imop, pay for it enter a code and bam the feature is there. $2k is my ceiling for price for now but that changes from month to month. Aah so many choices, so little time.

Trying to decide which spectrum analyzer to get.

Any reason why your choice is between an old HP antique and a Chinese B-brand? I mean, not that the HP is a bad instrument, but there are various other alternatives on the market.

You also didn't say what you want to do with it, what RF performance or features you want, or what bandwidth you require. Or what your budget is.

If I had to choose between these two then I'd go for the HP if it's in good condition (but I'd never pay anywhere near $1900 for it), simply because it's superior RF performance and because I don't trust Siglent with firmware. If not then I'd take neither of them as not too long ago I paid less than $1k for a 13.2GHz Anritsu SA manufactured in 2012.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Regarding the Anritsu my question would be do they have the numbers of in service units that Hp/Agilent/Keysight has. Is there the base of knowledge and spare parts available for the Anritsu that there is for the old Hp's? And finally do they hold their value. These factor weigh heavily with me and are questions that will be ask of any brand I consider.

Anritsu is, among Rohde & Schwarz and Keysight, one of the key supplier of the mobile phone industry for RF test kit. They have support centers all across the globe, and offer support and spares for their gear.

As to "holding their value", I don't know what you expect when the purchase price is already a lot lower than what you pay for a much older device from a company with a more widely known name (for fun, check out how much you'd pay for a Keysight 13Ghz SA from 2012, I'd bet it's a lot more than just $1k or even $2k). Resale value shouldn't matter much when you buy used gear which you plan to keep for a considerable amount of time, especially not when you consider going for an 20+yr old boat anchor.

[pascal_sweden]

As with all HP test gear, there is a self-test in the device, that produces a specific error code when there is an issue with the device. These error codes can vary a lot, and the total list of error codes is very big.

Here is an overview of the error code list for the HP 8560E in particular:
https://www.custom-cal.com/Spec_8560E_1E_2E.aspx

When I saw that list, I was wondering if there is a similar list of error codes in Rigol and Siglent test gear?
I mean, suppose you buy a second hand Rigol spectrum analyzer, or a Siglent spectrum analyzer, is there any way to run a self-test to build up some basic confidence?

Or even as a first owner, is there such a self-test which you can run once in a while, to double check if your spectrum analyzer is still reliable?

[luckyflyer]

As to "holding their value",

Certainly resale value should be a minor consideration (and is with me) when purchasing used equipment however the high prices of old Hp equipment is a strong testament to their popularity and underscores their longevity in the marketplace.

[G0HZU]

FWIW, of all the analysers mentioned so far, only the HP8560E would make it into our design labs at work. We still have several HP8560E and 8563E analysers and they still get used. However, the PSA and PXA are the top choice. But we have kept the HP8560E analysers and the RF performance is good enough to do some serious RF design work. For many years the HP8560E was my favourite analyser to work with. I think that all of our HP856x analysers were bought new and some are quite old now and have seen a LOT of use over the years.

But that doesn't make it the automatic winner for this poll. I think most hobbyists and small companies would be better off with something like the Siglent because it offers a warranty, and there will be a growing community of users on here to give advice etc. Also it has a modern display and modern connectivity. The HP8560E is going to look very dated when sat alongside the Siglent and the extra performance of the HP8560E probably won't be needed or appreciated by many. By contrast, I would take the HP8560E in a heartbeat but I'm a fairly serious user of a spectrum analyser and I'm used to using the high end stuff and I often need all the performance they offer.

There are a few niggly issues with the HP8560E as well. The first ones we bought all had CRT displays and the displays are looking quite dull and tired now. It could just be that the front glass needs removing and cleaning as this can often make a big difference.

Also, the front panel membrane for all the push buttons isn't very durable and I think that all of our older HP8560E and 8563E analysers suffer with a few deaf/intermittent buttons. Usually it's the up/down buttons and the 1 and zero buttons that fail first. Once it gets like this the analyser becomes more and more frustrating to use. These analysers were in constant demand/use at work and the front panel membrane only lasted a few years before the problems started to appear. It's unlikely that the average user would use these analysers this intensively but the button membrane is a weak point to look out for. Do all the buttons work OK on the one you want to buy?
I've heard rumours that the YIGs can fail in these analysers but I think all of ours have been OK in this respect. I'm guessing that we have about a dozen or so of these HP856x analysers in the various labs and production/support areas.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Certainly resale value should be a minor consideration (and is with me) when purchasing used equipment however the high prices of old Hp equipment is a strong testament to their popularity and underscores their longevity in the marketplace.

Maybe, but more than anything it's also testament to the fact that the only brand names many hobbyists know or think of are HP and Tektronix (just look at how much even a lowly ESA analyzer goes for, or old Tek gear). HP has without doubt built some great SAs (Tek not so much) but they weren't the only ones. R&S' SAs are pretty much in the same performance class as HP/Agilent/Keysight, slightly better in some areas, slightly worse in others (and some of their SAs come with some pretty unique features). Below the high-end segment there's also Advantest and Anritsu, two Japanese manufacturers who also offer some great analyzers. And pretty much all these manufacturers build their kit like tanks.

The point I'm trying to make is that HP isn't the only one who offers top-notch RF performance, and that considering a manufacturer that is less mainstream (amongst hobbyists) might get you a better deal. It's rare to find them amongst the stuff everyone rushes for, though.

[luckyflyer]

Good points Wuerstchenhund, I had a little time and checked into the  Anritsu-MS2670A. It's a 1990's era military version of one of their other sa's. It has a tg and goes for relativity cheap. One user reported that it was almost impossible to get the service manual for it but said that was a good for what he needed an sa for. So defiantly more than just a few choices out there.

[luckyflyer]

 By contrast, I would take the HP8560E in a heartbeat but I'm a fairly serious user of a spectrum analyser and I'm used to using the high end stuff and I often need all the performance they offer.

This address's my reasoning for considering the 8560E. Although I don't need all of the performance the 8560E offers now I may in the future and by going with the higher performance unit to start with it may save me from buying twice.

[Wuerstchenhund]

Good points Wuerstchenhund, I had a little time and checked into the  Anritsu-MS2670A. It's a 1990's era military version of one of their other sa's. It has a tg and goes for relativity cheap. One user reported that it was almost impossible to get the service manual for it but said that was a good for what he needed an sa for. So defiantly more than just a few choices out there.

Yes, but really, with a $2k budget, don't just look at 20+ year old kit, with a bit of patience you can find a lot younger instruments in that range.

By contrast, I would take the HP8560E in a heartbeat but I'm a fairly serious user of a spectrum analyser and I'm used to using the high end stuff and I often need all the performance they offer.

This address's my reasoning for considering the 8560E. Although I don't need all of the performance the 8560E offers now I may in the future and by going with the higher performance unit to start with it may save me from buying twice.

Maybe, or it might just fail when you need it. The older an instrument is the more likely it is to fail.