Author Topic: Why is BK Precision still in business? BK8500 programmable load OEM found  (Read 30628 times)

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Offline Wartex

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Hi everyone, talked to a large test gear distributor in Canada today, found the real OEM for BK's bench multimeters and programmable loads as well as other stuff. It's not "itech", it's maynuo. I played with the DC sourcemeter and it's awesome. They are coming out with an AC sourcemeter.


Looks familiar? http://maynuo.com/english/pro.asp?tid=26
 

Offline EEVblog

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I was told by BK Precision directly that the 8500 electronic load was designed and manufactured by iTech, a subsidiarity company of the BK Precision group.
So I'm not sure what's going on here?

Dave.
 

Offline EEVblog

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I notice that the display is different to the BK precision/Itech unit. Dual line instead of single.

Dave.
 

Offline T4P

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I notice that the display is different to the BK precision/Itech unit. Dual line instead of single.

Dave.

That might require just a minor OEM change, but yeah who am i to argue ...
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Offline Wartex

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I was told by BK Precision directly that the 8500 electronic load was designed and manufactured by iTech, a subsidiarity company of the BK Precision group.
So I'm not sure what's going on here?

Dave.

I was told by BK directly that BK879 LCR was made from the scratch. It's a blatant lie as it's a stripped down Tonghui. Also whenever they say "subsidiary" it's usually an independent company that makes gear for 20 other companies. I have lost all respect for BK, they are nothing but a badgeneering shop. I'll shit bricks the day they grow a pair and respond to criticism and admit they design ZERO products.
 

Offline FenderBender

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Yeah I used to think "BK Precision. Good stuff right? Like a cheaper Tek/Fluke, right?" Wrong. There's nothing special about their products. They're not bad, just not unique...and how can you be when some overseas company is doing the engineering and production?

Only thing they might provide is customer service if you need it..
 

Offline olsenn

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Nah, this isn't the same as the BK/Itech ones; the specs are different, the displays are different, and I tried out their software with my IT8511 and it doesn't communicate with it, meaning the PC interface is different as well. They just look similar... in fact it was probably the Maynuo that copied BK, as BK is the most popular/famous company of the bunch.
 

Offline T4P

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Nah, this isn't the same as the BK/Itech ones; the specs are different, the displays are different, and I tried out their software with my IT8511 and it doesn't communicate with it, meaning the PC interface is different as well. They just look similar... in fact it was probably the Maynuo that copied BK, as BK is the most popular/famous company of the bunch.

And also a high probability "Itech" copied Maynuo and changed many things

Yeah I used to think "BK Precision. Good stuff right? Like a cheaper Tek/Fluke, right?" Wrong. There's nothing special about their products. They're not bad, just not unique...and how can you be when some overseas company is doing the engineering and production?

Only thing they might provide is customer service if you need it..
That's what they did with their scopes also ...
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Offline Christe4nM

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Since I'm wondering what is going on here I took a moment to compare the specs of BK Precision's 8500 vs Maynuo's M9711. At first glance the Maynuo actually seems to have a bit better specs; at least greater accuracy than the BK.

Now I have no idea how to know whether to trust the specs stated by a manufacturer, nor how to now whether a Chinese manufacturer is only 'Chinese' (the common way we know their products...) or actually a high quality manufacturer. Yet since Manyuo's DC load is marketed as new, I don't think it to be odd that their specs are better; BK's one is around for quite a while now. I just wish we could see a teardown of the Maynuo to see the build & component quality.

There's very little information on the web about Maynuo, and so far I haven't been able to connect BK and Maynuo. Maybe the OP can shed a bit more light on this?

As far as look go I like Maynuo's load better, the light blue touch is kinda fresh ;-)

Maynuo M9700 specs
BK Precision 8500 Datasheet

Edit: Maynuo actually has a valid CE certificate. I know CE marking doesn't say anything, but at least we know it's not China Export. (This is of yet only for their PSU range though)
« Last Edit: August 15, 2012, 06:10:35 PM by Christe4nM »
 

Offline Christe4nM

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To add to the confusion:
This is the Maynuo with Atten brand added. Zooming in on the upperleft corner shows Maynuo's name next to the Atten brand logo.

Does this mean Atten just rebranded this instrument, or that it's Atten quality :-(
 

Offline EEVblog

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Guys, I have asked BK Precision and they have responded and cleared this up.

To quote them:
Quote
To answer your question: Maynou was found by a former Itech engineer who left the company and took with him the technical documentation of the Itech line, which made it easy for him to copy many products in a very short time. As you may know this is a common practice in China. For the skeptics amongst your readers: Itech has been around since 2004 and this DC loads series was one of their first products. We started selling the 8500 shortly thereafter. Evidence of this can be found here : http://wayback.archive.org/web/*/http://itech.sh
Plug in the Maynuo URL and you can see that they have been around for only 2 years.

And there is more on how they add value to the Itech products, but I'll leave it up to BK to fill you in directly here. Just wanted to clear up the OEM confusion quickly.

Dave.
 

Offline FenderBender

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So much incest in this test equipment industry!
 

Offline Wartex

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Guys, I have asked BK Precision and they have responded and cleared this up.

To quote them:
Quote
To answer your question: Maynou was found by a former Itech engineer who left the company and took with him the technical documentation of the Itech line, which made it easy for him to copy many products in a very short time. As you may know this is a common practice in China. For the skeptics amongst your readers: Itech has been around since 2004 and this DC loads series was one of their first products. We started selling the 8500 shortly thereafter. Evidence of this can be found here : http://wayback.archive.org/web/*/http://itech.sh
Plug in the Maynuo URL and you can see that they have been around for only 2 years.

And there is more on how they add value to the Itech products, but I'll leave it up to BK to fill you in directly here. Just wanted to clear up the OEM confusion quickly.

Dave.

"Joy at MCS" messaged me today, he sells the BK stuff and they told him the same thing. So the ODM is iTech, and BK is a rebrand and Maynuo is a redesign of the original iTech product.

PS: Any chance you can ask them where they copied the BK879 LCR from (honest answer this time hopefully)?
 

So the ODM is iTech, and BK is a rebrand

BK owns iTech (both BK and iTech say so). So I guess we can forgive them for putting a BK label on an iTech device.

As for the Maynuo story, I don't know if I should laugh or cry. Laugh, because an Asian company stealing technical documentation from another Asian company instead of a Western company. Cry, because yet another Asian company stealing ...
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Offline LaurenceW

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This is an interesting thread for me, as i am in the market for an electronic load. it is for home/hobby use, so my budget is limited, and i cannot stretch to a "genuine" Itech or BK load. The Maynuo range had caught my eye, and they can be had on ebay (for the spec I want - >300V DC rated M9712B) for about GBP£470, landed.

The two products are indeed so incredibly similar, that I am prepared to believe (as BK appear to have confirmed) that the Maynuo is a pretty direct and simple-ish copy, albeit with a more detailed display. Maynuo must have had access to the original microcontroller source code, and recompiled it for a different display. The specs are very similar, so I am now left wondering whether the Maynuo does perform to the quoted spec, or they just copied the spec sheet, too!?

VERY little info about on Maynuo, but I did find this . It seems to exist, and work (not an in-depth test, but prrof the device is out there)

I have looked at cheaper Beich and Array "brands" of electronic loads but I suspect these may be "slower" to react to load changes. Also, markedly poorer (if still not actually poor) accuracy quoted for these.

And yes, Maynuo loads appear in ATTEN variants, too. No doubt about that.

If I do land one (in final negotiations with the Financial Controller at the moment!), I will of course "do a Dave"  - Dahnt turnit on, taykit apairt! (sorry, Dave ;))

Oh, and I think Joy at MCS would like me to confirm her gender. Definitely a lady of the female persuasion.
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Offline saturation

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Atten makes a look a like too.  Since even the knobs and face are identical, it looks like B&K, if they were the designers, whomever they OEM it too made copies ad lib:



Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline mianchen

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This is an interesting thread for me, as i am in the market for an electronic load. it is for home/hobby use, so my budget is limited, and i cannot stretch to a "genuine" Itech or BK load. The Maynuo range had caught my eye, and they can be had on ebay (for the spec I want - >300V DC rated M9712B) for about GBP£470, landed.

The two products are indeed so incredibly similar, that I am prepared to believe (as BK appear to have confirmed) that the Maynuo is a pretty direct and simple-ish copy, albeit with a more detailed display. Maynuo must have had access to the original microcontroller source code, and recompiled it for a different display. The specs are very similar, so I am now left wondering whether the Maynuo does perform to the quoted spec, or they just copied the spec sheet, too!?

VERY little info about on Maynuo, but I did find this . It seems to exist, and work (not an in-depth test, but prrof the device is out there)

I have looked at cheaper Beich and Array "brands" of electronic loads but I suspect these may be "slower" to react to load changes. Also, markedly poorer (if still not actually poor) accuracy quoted for these.

And yes, Maynuo loads appear in ATTEN variants, too. No doubt about that.

If I do land one (in final negotiations with the Financial Controller at the moment!), I will of course "do a Dave"  - Dahnt turnit on, taykit apairt! (sorry, Dave ;))

Oh, and I think Joy at MCS would like me to confirm her gender. Definitely a lady of the female persuasion.

This gentleman has quite a lot of interesting videos...thanks good find :)
 

Offline kmel

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Re: Why is BK Precision still in business? BK8500 programmable load OEM found
« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2012, 04:36:40 PM »
So I'm not sure what's going on here?
After I saw your EEVblog #281 it was clear to me: I need an Electronic Load.
So I did some digging as BK is too pricey for me.
Found Gossen Metrawatt K851A, as pricey as BK, but "Made in Germany"  PAH! Looks like a cheap ATTEN on aliexpress.

So here is what I know so far, datasheets and features are not yet evaluated:

BK Precision
- BK850x: 1 line VFD, carrying handle, front rubber
- owns ITECH

ITECH:
- IT851x: 1 line VFD, carrying handle
- started in year 2005
- ex chief designer: Xiao Tony

ARRAY:
- 371x: 4 button knob, 2 line LCD
- ex chief designer: Xiao Tony

MAYNUO:
- M971x: 2 line VFD, carrying handle, front rubber
- started in year 2009
- owner: Xiao Tony

Gossen Metrawatt:
- K851x: 4 button knob, 2 line LCD
- are from ARRAY, OEM

ATTEN:
- ATZ3710A: 4 button knob, 2 line LCD, is from ARRAY, OEM
- ATZ971x: 2 line VFD, carrying handle, front rubber
- ATZ9712 is from MAYNUO, OEM

REK:
- RK851x: 2 line VFD

BEICH:
- CH871x: 2 line LCD, carrying handle

EASY:
- EEL-660x: 2 line LCD, carrying handle, front rubber

Applent:
- AT851x: 3 line VFD, carrying handle

MCH:
- EL363x: 2 line LCD, carrying handle


I think I will go with MAYNUO, because there is the chief designer now, after ARRAY and ITECH.

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kmel
« Last Edit: September 13, 2012, 10:30:04 PM by kmel »
 

Offline T4P

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Re: Why is BK Precision still in business? BK8500 programmable load OEM found
« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2012, 07:50:48 PM »
So pretty much every 150W/300W 360V common rectangle shape loads were traced to Xiao Tony

Go figure! ...  ;D
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Offline saturation

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Re: Why is BK Precision still in business? BK8500 programmable load OEM found
« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2012, 09:07:06 PM »
Very interesting information kmel.  How do you know Xiao Tony is/was the designer from these companies?  Do you have a reference or a source?   If true, he is a righteous dude, he knows his stuff.

It would makes sense why the Array 8510a and 8511 are decent product yet Amazon reviews for their PSUs, are not as reputable as the e-loads: its not the same person in charge.  The Array 3701a I'm testing is true to its spec sheet and the cheapest available that does basic e-load tests.  Luckily, the quality control hasn't suffered.

Some side issues, Atten also sells Array OEM, ATTEN ATZ3710A.  The Gossen is easier to find if you use the product number, SSL150 and SSL300 for their Array models. 


So here is what I know so far, datasheets and features are not yet evaluated:

BK Precision
- BK850x: 1 line VFD, carrying handle, front rubber
- owns ITECH

ITECH:
- IT851x: 1 line VFD, carrying handle
- started in year 2005
- ex chief designer: Xiao Tony

ARRAY:
- 371x: 4 button knob, 2 line LCD
- ex chief designer: Xiao Tony

MAYNUO:
- M971x: 2 line VFD, carrying handle, front rubber
- started in year 2009
- owner: Xiao Tony

Gossen Metrawatt:
- K851x: 4 button knob, 2 line LCD
- are from ARRAY, OEM

ATTEN:
- ATZ3710A: 4 button knob, 2 line LCD
- ATZ971x: 2 line VFD, carrying handle, front rubber
- ATZ9712 is from MAYNUO, OEM

REK:
- RK851x: 2 line VFD

BEICH:
- CH871x: 2 line LCD, carrying handle

EASY:
- EEL-660x: 2 line LCD, carrying handle, front rubber

Applent:
- AT851x: 3 line VFD, carrying handle

MCH:
- EL363x: 2 line LCD, carrying handle


I think I will go with MAYNUO, because there is the chief designer now, after ARRAY and ITECH.
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kmel

Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 

Offline kmel

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Re: Why is BK Precision still in business? BK8500 programmable load OEM found
« Reply #20 on: September 13, 2012, 10:54:16 PM »
Very interesting information kmel.  How do you know Xiao Tony is/was the designer from these companies?  Do you have a reference or a source?   If true, he is a righteous dude, he knows his stuff.
I asked [email protected] who the OEM of the M9710 is.
 
Some side issues, Atten also sells Array OEM, ATTEN ATZ3710A.
Thanks, fixed my listing.

BTW the MAYNUO M9710 often sold on ebay/aliexpress isn't for international market, only CHI. I didn't find a distributor who sells it.

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kmel
 


Offline T4P

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Re: Why is BK Precision still in business? BK8500 programmable load OEM found
« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2012, 01:41:28 AM »
Thanks Jonas. Who makes the ATM8811 PSU? OK it's a maynuo
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Offline Smoking

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Re: Why is BK Precision still in business? BK8500 programmable load OEM found
« Reply #23 on: September 14, 2012, 02:07:08 AM »
Thanks Jonas. Who makes the ATM8811 PSU? OK it's a maynuo

Yes it is. ( We are working hard to get the www.maynuo.eu webshop on-line )

But what we also like about these units is there software interface!
I will put some more pictures on the shop later.
If you like more info please email us
 

Offline saturation

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Re: Why is BK Precision still in business? BK8500 programmable load OEM found
« Reply #24 on: September 14, 2012, 05:00:26 AM »
This is good news, it suggests to me if you buy Array 3710 or 3711 you are buying one of his earlier works.  I don't know about the most recent 372x series, since he had left by then.

Also, since Itech or BKPrecision are all children of his skills, they should all be good so long as the current management maintain QC as he devised.

From what I see on eBay, the Maynuo or clones cost about the same as BKPrecision in the USA.  As BK is ~ 40 years old, it would make better sense to buy a BK model to get support or warranty, if priced the same and all features being equal.


The big names, Agilent, Chroma, and others, focus far more on modular units but few or no option for small bench units.  It leaves room for Maynuo and others to carve the market for themselves, Xiao is smart to focus here.

The other models listed: RK, Bost, Easy, appears to be Maynuos or copies of it.  Applent & MCH appear different, but the pictures suggest for the same money one can do better even with a Maynuo clone.


I asked [email protected] who the OEM of the M9710 is.
 
BTW the MAYNUO M9710 often sold on ebay/aliexpress isn't for international market, only CHI. I didn't find a distributor who sells it.
--
kmel
« Last Edit: September 15, 2012, 12:03:34 AM by saturation »
Best Wishes,

 Saturation
 


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