640px Thermal Imaging Options

[MarcusG]

Hi all,

Been lurking here trawling various posts for a while as I've been considering a thermal imaging setup to try some things with. It would mainly be used for imaging from an almost photographic perspective, including moving targets, and some spotlighting trips for tracking down mammals/birds at night without flushing them by using my spotlighting gear. Because of this I think a 640 pixel ~25-30+Hz model would be most appropriate to cover the bases. I'm also looking for a system with the capability to change lenses reasonably easily. Budget would preferably be under $5,000 as a ballpark figure, still trying to get the man maths to add up that on though...!

The two systems which have caught my eye so far are the Therm-App Pro with the 19mm default lens and the optional 35mm lens for a bit more reach and the Thermal Expert V1, again with the default 19mm lens and optional 35mm lens. Down the track I might look at adding a 75mm or 100mm option depending on what is available. Did anyone have any experience with either of the cameras individually, or even a comparison between them? Information and reviews seem rather scarce online for the two units outside of example images (including some of the very impressive shots floating around on here!). The Therm-App Pro struck me as a more polished unit, with the mounting system looking more robust and better app selection for imaging directly from a phone (namely ThermViewer). That said the Thermal Expert also seems capable enough looking at the videos on their Youtube channel (), and would likely come in significantly cheaper based on the limited info I can find locally.

I've had a bit of a look at some of the thermal cores available, particularly the Flir Boson range as these come with a good range of lenses, haven't seen anything about them being interchangeable though. These would also need a bit more setup work to provide a handheld imaging solution from what I can determine. Not having a lot of experience with this sort of stuff I haven't really been able to make any headway regarding potential solutions using a such a setup.

Hopefully most (or at least some) of that made sense, thanks in advance for any guidance provided!

[Spirit532]

The Therm-App Pro is a much better option compared to the TE V-1, just because of the sensor used.
If you have the budget, FLIR-made devices almost always outperform the competition, but the lens options are very limited, and they're generally not designed to be changed in the field, though some series(like the HM I believe) have an actual interchangeable lens system with options.

[Mr. Scram]

A thermal camera with those specifications would be a dream, so I'm following this thread.

[Vipitis]

Look for used FLIR Txxx like a T660 but that is difficult to fit the budget. Talk to Ultrapurple for all the hands on information on the ThermApp and ThermApp Pro. I believe that there is also two ThermalExpert V1 around in this forum so you can ask both for comparison. The Xinfrared XTherm T6S also has very high resolution, but i would be very sceptical, although it is probably cheap. The X3s vs ThermalExpert-Q1 ist telling nicely how very similar specced devices look different with image processing in camera. It's difficult to judge without knowing how raw the files are and if any processing in post allows for the same latitude, you should find a comparison somewhere here... If the sensor only goes up in resolution it could be a hint. But the ThermApp Pro apparently also goes huge steps up in noise and clarity due to a totally different sensor.

Also look through places to find a total legally unmarked military Selex Merlin by chance.

[Ultrapurple]

The Therm-App Pro 640x480 is a remarkable beast. Its quoted NETD (sensitivity) is 30mK, compared with typically 50mK for most 384x288 cameras.

The difference between 50mK and 30mK is like night and day. I have a couple of regular Therm-App 384x288 cameras and one Pro 640x480 and the quality improvement is staggering.

Here is a sample video of some random middle-aged people dancing. It's jerky, because it was done on the spur of the moment and I had too much running in the background on my phone, but just look at the noise level. It's the nearest thing to a cooled camera I've ever seen.

Here is a slightly processed video of the border between Gibraltar and Spain, taken from halfway up the Rock. Resolution and dynamic range is excellent.

Here is one of my first test videos done with the Therm-App Pro. Zero out of ten for art, but it shows the thing working on a public street.

Here are some sample images from the Therm-App Pro, mostly with the 35mm lens but some with 19mm. Some are constructed from panoramas (several exposures). Click the images for larger versions.




                




There are more images made using the Therm-App 384x288 and Therm-App Pro 640x480 on the Therm-App User Group and also on my Flickr photostream (although there are also visible, X-Ray, UV and NIR images there).

[railrun]

In the video with the dancing people it looks like you have vignetting. Is this normal?

[Ultrapurple]

Yes, the explanation on the video page explains that I was using the 13mm lens for that video. The 13mm lens image circle doesn't quite fill the whole 640x480 sensor, missing out a few pixels at the corners.

[railrun]

Yes, the explanation on the video page explains that I was using the 13mm lens for that video. The 13mm lens image circle doesn't quite fill the whole 640x480 sensor, missing out a few pixels at the corners.

D‘oh [emoji23]
My fault

[Ultrapurple]

There are also some sample videos made with the regular 384x388 Therm-App (not all by me):

Feeding stray cats (9Hz)


Sunbathers and swimmers (9Hz)


Looking around the neighbourhood (9Hz)


Night driving (25Hz)


Driving in an English village (9Hz)


Cup of coffee (9Hz)


Watching squirrels (9Hz)


The last video, of a squirrel, shows the typical noise level on a just-switched-on Therm-App (384x288). The noise level does reduce as they reach thermal equilibrium, a process that takes 3-5 minutes. The Therm-App Pro is much better in that respect.

[Mr. Scram]

I hate you people. Every time you're pretty happy with what you have, someone shows you grass that's a whole lot greener. 

[Ultrapurple]

If it's greener it's probably an image intensifier, not a thermal camera