Any idea where to get a cheap SWIR or MWIR camera?

[Vipitis]

so you say it is the IP that goes into it... probably a bunch of patents on how to manufacture the sensors. The R&D cost for the sensor it self and the production line isn't cheap either. Looking at the company linked previously, I see that they own seven manufactoring facilities, so they have to fund the silicon manufacturing themselves as well.

Interesting to see that they reinvest 9% into further R&D

[CatalinaWOW]

It is not just the IP though that is also involved, and as Frasure says, well justified.  The methods to make these are actually fairly well documented.  You could do the research and find what is actually required to make these things yourself.  Everything from CVD ( or other method, the choice is yours) manufacture of sensor material to design of the readouts and hybridizing the two.  We'll forget about the secret sauce in getting all the equipment up and running.  All those process engineers and Phds are just getting free money for there time.  After you put together the equipment list and supplies think about it.  I'll sign up right now for 10 of your product at $2500 a piece if it meets the specs of the referenced device.

[Vipitis]

Semiconductor manufacturing, even for silicon, is difficult and expensive. A lot goes into R&D. Testing and building the assembly line.

I have been to a research center for semiconductors. They were researching into new materials and manufacturing techniques with graphene for example. For professors you build a lot of transistors, a pixel is different and so is a photodiode.

for GPUs it is possible to simulate the chip layout on supercomputers. But for other parts it is not. So it is a difficult testing process.  And a production plant can cost billions.

now detectors are different to computer chips, but the effort my be comparable.

[Ben321]

Ben321,

Whilst I understand your frustration at the cost of some specialist parts, maybe a little story will help you better understand the situation......


I decide to put some of my hard learnt knowledge into a new imaging sensor that can detect previously unknown "Geek" particles in space. I spend a year of my life designing the imaging sensor and another year searching for Unicorn Tears that are essential to the sensors operation. Boy those Unicorns are hard to find, and as for making them cry.... well that was so hard until I used the Tazer on them !

...

Interesting story. So you are saying that the initial manufacturer of InGaAs sensors (whatever company that may be) has a patent on the process to make them? Well that would explain why no matter what company you go to they are ALL expensive. Each company that wants to make an InGaAs imager sensor chip needs to have a contract from the company with the patent, and part of that contract states that the company getting the contract with the patent holder shall not sell their InGaAs sensor chip at any price below what the patend holder company sells it for. In other words there is some MAJOR PRICE FIXING going on in the industry. That's MUST be illegal.

[Fraser]

 

It's a story with a message. Do not take it literally.

[CatalinaWOW]

Don't blame it on the patents until YOU do the research and find out how long patents last and when they were filed.  Whining and excuses are not the material of engineering.

[Fraser]

CatalinaWOW,

Ben321 clearly has some strong personal views on the World. I am leaving him to get on with his life as I have little spare time to waste these days.

Fraser

[CatalinaWOW]

CatalinaWOW,

Ben321 clearly has some strong personal views on the World. I am leaving him to get on with his life as I have little spare time to waste these days.

Fraser

Agreed.  Good decision which I will copy.

[eKretz]

CatalinaWOW,

Ben321 clearly has some strong personal views on the World. I am leaving him to get on with his life as I have little spare time to waste these days.

Fraser

Agreed.  Good decision which I will copy.

Motion seconded (once removed) and passed....

[Vipitis]

This thread is really hostile. Some people just have the wrong attitude in here.

We have had a thread about kindness and generosity in here recently, where is all of that?
You should remember that participation in this forum is voluntary. People have contributed amazing stuff that took them hundreds of hours to make. You should be thankful and respectful, not demanding. Nobody wins anything in this kind of arguments.

It is okay to have different opinions and state them. But to keep this a civil discussion you need to respect and understand other people's perspective.

[Fraser]

Vipitis,

I just did a quick read through of the thread.

It does not read as hostile. People have contributed good comment to assist the OP in his understanding and needs. Then exasperation creeps in as it is clear the OP does not want to hear what is being said.

I even tried to lighten the 'atmosphere' with my darned Unicorn story ! It had a clear message but that got lost in translation.

This is not the first time that the OP has challenged the way the World works. I think Microbolometer cost was another example. As stated he has strong views on these matters and that is his right.

in my case, I called time on my participation in the discussion. It was going nowhere. I think the participants in this discussion have actually tried to assist the OP and have been quite reserved in their comments.

I am concerned that you think this thread unfriendly as I do not think that was the intention of the participants. Frustration sometimes leaks in to responses though.

Anyway, from my perspective, this thread is 'dead' and life moves on.

Best Wishes to all

Fraser