Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera review

[Fraser]

I had a phone call from my local FLIR distributor today. I had downloaded some literature and that automatically invokes a call from your local agent to introduce himself.

It was an interesting conversation. He was unaware of any delays in the Ex series supply chain but is checking with FLIR. When I advised him that I had purchased from PASS he said that they buy in bulk, and that is one of the reasons that they can discount. He was impressed with the amount of discount I achieve and the inclussion of the free Exx case/pouch.

So, in the UK, it looks like it is worth asking PASS for their best price, and see what they can offer. I achieved 6% discount, what can you get ?

Another member managed to get an excellent discount, as his company had a trade account with an agent. It may be worth checking if your employer has trade accounts with any FLIR agents or distributors, as some will alow a staff discount as well.

[olsenn]

I just asked a FLIR rep why the E4 does not have a tripod socket ?

The answer...... what for it........ "its a handheld device"

So there you go. FLIR believe that the E series is ONLY to be used in your hand ,and that no other possibilities exist.

Yet the Exx series has such a mount option. Go figure ?

The Ex-Series and Exx-Series are designed differently to accommodate different markets. Having a tripod mount would be more useful, but then again, so would having the ability to add external lenses and manually focus. The Ex-series was made more cheaply than the Exx-Series, and it was designed to be for quick and simple inspections (turn it on, point it at your target, turn it off again).

If you absolutely need a tripod mount, see Mike's video on the matter. He shows how to add one

[Fraser]

Yes, but how many expensive cameras do you know of that do not have a tripod mount, if only for a lanyard fixing ? It is so cheap to incorporate that cost is unlikely a factor. As you say, FLIR designed it for a specific role but I was just surprised that they scrapped the socket.

I am already pursuing several options for mounting the camera on a tripod and will advise when I have a decent solution 

[G0HZU]

I would definitely be interested in a way to fit a decent tripod mount

At work we use the Irisys 4010 with a tripod and it is very easy to tilt the tripod mount 90deg and get the camera to look straight downwards at an RF PCB. To do this with the E4 would need something along the lines of Mike's tripod mount plus an angled interface bracket because the E4 can't stare vertically downwards with a 90deg tilt otherwise.

I've managed to go over 24hours without turning on and playing with the E4 so some of the 'new toy' effect is wearing off However I suspect my neighbours will be keen to have a free thermal survey around their property so it will see a bit of use again over the weekend

[Fraser]

I am aware that some members of the forum are interested in the manufacturing to delivery time line.

To help, I attach the details of my consignment as tracked by TNT.

09 November 2013      - E4 unit s/n 639065xx Calibrated  ( FW 1.19.8 )
11 November 2013 PM - E4 shipped from Tallinn, Estonia with TNT EXPRESS service
12 November 2013 AM - E4 arrives with PASS in the UK
12 November 2013 AM - E4 shipped to me
13 November 2013 AM - E4 arrives at my doorstep

Not bad ! The Calibration is certainly nice and fresh.

[Fraser]

G0HZU,

I will let you know how I get on with mounting options. For a straight down view you may be better off with a plank of wood with a nice large hole in it for the E4's head to rest in. Then place a suitably sized block under the handle to support it. Crude but effective.

The adding of a bracket assembly is not as easy as I had hoped due to the handle shape. Velcro retainers look effective if used with a U channel to hold the handle. It will be interesting to see how effective the Golf Umbrella holder is. Much will depend upon the design and quality of the retainer.

I even had the local hardware store guys scratching there heads over the problem today, Its an old fashioned shop with Gentlemen who have gathered much knowledge over the years. Their thoughts... its daft to not fit a tripod thread to a camera, even a thermal camera  They had some ideas but all would have scuffed the rubber on the handle badly over time.

Watch this space.

[Fraser]

The utiisation of the Golf Umbrella mount idea may be a bust.

The unit arrived this morning. Its a really well made item with an excellent finish. The bad news is that, as I feared, the diameter of the tube is slightly too small for the bulbous section of the E4's handle. The undersize is approx 2mm. The plastic wall of the tube is very thick and may not repond to an attempt to oval it using the application of heat. it looks pretty rigid in its design.

If I can't use it as supplied I may try more invasive modification  of the tube as it is really niceley constructed. My recent experience with 3D printed shapes is not wonderful so the idea of my making a 3D printed mount is presently on hold until I establish the limits of the 3D printing technology available to me in the UK.

More updates on this as an when I have news.

Update 29 Nov.

No more has been done with the umbrella holder as Georges80 designed a very neat adapter to aid tripod mounting. I had the adapter 3D printed and it is far better than the umbrella holder idea that I had. Take a look at the E4 Useful information thread for more info.

[WarSim]

Anyone think of scanning in the handle and printing a tripod holder that way? 
I have a E30 it is likely a biff rent shape I don't know. 
Besides I am packing for a move so I can't do it now. 
Is there anyone else out there willing to try?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[svendsenstefan]

Hello everyone,

I'm in charge of buying the first IR camera for my company and I think about getting a FLIR E-series camera. I saw the very positive review on youtube, now I hope someone can help me determine if it's the right camera for us.

Main requirement:
We want to be able to check for overheated electrical components (fuses, terminals, power supplies, I/O modules etc.) in cabinets. We have had some overheating issues in the past, so now we want to check all our electrical compartments for our own sake. We do not need to make any official reports on this.

Secondary requirements:
We would like to be able to use the camera when trouble shooting faulty PCBs.
We would like to be able to use the camera when checking for overheated mechanical components (bearings etc.).
In the future we would like to be able to offer our customers an actual thermographical report of the equipment we manufacture.


We currently have no IR cameras nor any experience with them. We are all electronics/electrical/mechanical techs/engineers.

Since we have no experience with this we would prefer a camera that is easy to operate to decrease the risk of "doing it wrong".
With these requirements in mind, would there be any reason not to buy a FLIR E-series camera?

Thanks,
Stefan

[mikeselectricstuff]

Hello everyone,

I'm in charge of buying the first IR camera for my company and I think about getting a FLIR E-series camera. I saw the very positive review on youtube, now I hope someone can help me determine if it's the right camera for us.

Main requirement:
We want to be able to check for overheated electrical components (fuses, terminals, power supplies, I/O modules etc.) in cabinets. We have had some overheating issues in the past, so now we want to check all our electrical compartments for our own sake. We do not need to make any official reports on this.

Secondary requirements:
We would like to be able to use the camera when trouble shooting faulty PCBs.
We would like to be able to use the camera when checking for overheated mechanical components (bearings etc.).
In the future we would like to be able to offer our customers an actual thermographical report of the equipment we manufacture.


We currently have no IR cameras nor any experience with them. We are all electronics/electrical/mechanical techs/engineers.

Since we have no experience with this we would prefer a camera that is easy to operate to decrease the risk of "doing it wrong".
With these requirements in mind, would there be any reason not to buy a FLIR E-series camera?

Thanks,
Stefan

E4 is ideal - for close-up work you can either adjust the lens with a special tool (or use a cheap additional lens https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/flir-e4-the-useful-information-thread/
And of course there are the "Upgrade" paths to high-res and more functions https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/

[Fraser]

Stefan,

If your company is new to thermal camera usage, the E4 offers simple use combined with good performance in its 80x60 standard resolution. The higher 320x240 resolution is useful when wishing to pull out a little more detail of a specific component/part.

I use industrial thermal cameras that cost over $50000 (yes $50000), as well as my new E4. I remain impressed with what FLIR is offering for US$1000. Such an investment is a very good way to introduce staff to the technology and its capabilities. The MSX makes it a winner IMHO. Users can more easily interpret the images and content. Easier than on my industrial cameras !

Note that FLIR offer some FREE on line training E-learning courses via their training site. Take a look at their web site for details. This training would be useful to you and your colleagues. FLIR provide some useful thermal theory in the back of the full E4 manual as well, There are some free PDF books you can download from FLIR as well.

Some may disagree, but you should contact FLIR in your region and ask for a demo of the E4 by a salesman. They may even loan you a unit (they have loaned units to me in the past) As a new industrial customer they are likely to take an interest in you in the hope of future sales. A demo can be worth a thousand words ! Other models and their advantages may also then be discussed with the salesman. I have found FLIR salesmen to be very professional but they will try to sell you a better model if they can (no surprises) . They are not high pressure sales though.

[svendsenstefan]

Thanks guys, that was great information.
The E4 seems very attractive.

[Fraser]

FLIR On-line image editor with save to desktop function

I just noticed that FLIR are offering an on-line editor for images that allows you to save edited images to your desktop.

My only concern would be whether such a program logs metadata to help FLIR determine whether you have 'improved' your E4 as the product ID would not tally with the resolution. That may just be the paranoid part of my brain working overtime though !

Here is the link to it:

http://flir.custhelp.com/app/utils/fl_webViewer1

[unicorn5]

Hi, I asked this on the tear down thread but prob off topic there and nobody answered. I'll paste it here.

Don't have a sensible reason for owning something worth so much, just used as a toy. I'll be checking wherre aircon air escapes and that will help with me insulating & replacing areas.

And as I have no reason to own one, my other idea was to strap the e4 onto my chest attach it to RC FPV video goggles and walk around in pitch black. Based on the lens angle of view would that be possible or is the field of view too narrow and so not really viable.  Not wide angle enough and too shakey? Maybe one of you have tried walking around your house or yard using only the e4 as your vision? I have a 4x 42mm night vision device and that works really well but don't know how to relate it's magnification and angle of view to a flir e4.

So... would any of you guys take the chance with ordering one now or just too risky blowing $1200US [australia re-ship] For me a stock standard e4 would be a disaster, it looks way too crap resolution wise. Thanks

[Fraser]

The FLIR E4 will not directly drive virtual reality glasses as it does not have a composite or RGB video output. USB video stream only, via a computer. You could use a VGA virtual reality headset connected to the VGA output of a notebook computer that was connected to the camera. Messy but workable.

Lens angle of view is 45 degrees. Work out what your 42mm night-vision sight angle of view is for comparison.

45 Degrees is pretty wide angle and plenty good enough for foot navigation. It is not a 'zoomed' view. 9Hz refresh is fine for foot navigation but not really good enough for first person view flying of a radio controlled model. Fire fighters use cameras with this angle of view for searching smoke filled rooms. The refresh rate of their cameras is higher, but this is not a major issue in your case. The IRIS fire camera actually had the thermal camera on the side if the fire fighters helmet to provide the same directional view as the eyes. A chest mounted camera would disorientate you somewhat.

Thermal cameras only show a differential in temperature, so whether the camera will enable you to see enough to navigate in the dark is dependant upon the temperature profile of what is around you. Take a look on Youtube for examples of thermal camera use at night for hunting.

A thermal camera will show you wildlife that a night vision image intensifier may miss due to natural camouflage. That is why thermal cameras are excellent in warfare and in some cases restricted export items.

Night vision using a quality image intensifier, with or without an IR illuminator, can be highly effective depending upon the ambient light level and range required. Military pilots use 'Hot Gen3' star light image intensifiers to fly the aircraft, and thermal cameras to hunt for targets. The two needs are somewhat different.

By all means buy yourself a toy to play with if you can afford it, but no one else can make this decision for you or will try to persuade you one way or the other. Do some browsing on youtube to get a feel for what a thermal camera can do for you. The situation with improvements is presently unchanged with no sign of new firmware as of builds of 25 Nov. You will not find a better value thermal camera on the market at this point in time, or likely for some time ahead.

Take a look here:

http://www.optimumenergy.com/top-five-myths-of-thermal-night-vision/

http://www.policemag.com/channel/technology/articles/2013/03/20-things-you-need-to-know-about-night-vision.aspx

[unicorn5]

Thanks for your reply, very imformative. Is there any chance a hack could be developed for this camera to output video files to usbsticks/usb hard drives or just not possible? I know none of the E series do so i'm guessing not.

I just can't help thinking I"ll be the first person to get the mythical 1.20 unhackable firmware and be stuck with something I never wanted, and never able to offload it either as i'm sure the first question a prospective customer will ask is 'what's it's firmware?'  . The story of the supply line drying up and 3 week delay is a bit chilling. I think I have to wait for the next full replenishment of stock to suppliers, and discover if new firmware is 1.20 & hope this unfortunate forum member can be assisted by the techs here. THEN BUY & get the even newer hardware upgraded unhackable version 

[amyk]

Thanks for your reply, very imformative. Is there any chance a hack could be developed for this camera to output video files to usbsticks/usb hard drives or just not possible? I know none of the E series do so i'm guessing not.

The hardware is there but it would probably require some nontrivial software effort. I'm not sure if WinCE has DirectShow but I've used that on desktop Windows for video recording. The internal flash is tiny and I doubt the processor is powerful enough to do realtime compression (maybe MJPEG). I don't remember if the USB controller supports host/OTG mode but once again, this is going to be a lot of software development effort. Much easier to hook it to some cheap Android device supporting OTG and have it record the video instead.

[mrflibble]

My only concern would be whether such a program logs metadata to help FLIR determine whether you have 'improved' your E4 as the product ID would not tally with the resolution. That may just be the paranoid part of my brain working overtime though !

Given the google lookenpeepers integration as discussed in the other thread, I think a certain level of paranoia might be justified.

[Fraser]

The E4 is being shipped with free accessories in the UK at the moment :

http://www.pass-thermal.co.uk/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera

Looks like you get the following free:

1. Spare Battery
2. Soft Case
3. Car charger
4. Strap for case

[mpmitch2000]

hi
I hear you can hack the Flir i3 to be the same res as the i7.
I just done this trick and works. I found out about this on the net. But I hear when you reboot it goes back to normal.
Does anyone know how to stop this or if there is a way around this . Can anyone help please? can you help Mike.
Thanks
Michael

[Fraser]

Q. Is it worth providing product feedback to FLIR or their agents ?
A. In my case YES   (YMMV)

I provided product feedback, both good and bad, to FLIR and their agent in the UK. I wrote a short review of my experiences using the E4 camera, but nothing too involved. I highlighted my disappointment with the use of a micro USB connector, lack of a tripod socket, and the non ergonomic feeling when having to press the 'down' pad button with the tip of my thumb due to the moulding below. i.e. It was not 'suck up to the manufacturer' type feedback. I also reported an issue with FLIR Tools that turned out to be user error....I was using it in a 1024x600 netbook and this is not supported. I have never before received more than verbal thanks from, a manufacturer but.......

I have received the following items in thanks for my efforts:

1. Soft case of value $40
2. Spare battery of value $50
3. External Charger of value $125
4. FLIR Tools+ of value $400

All these items supplied free to me without any strings attached. In my case it has proven very worthwhile to provide feedback on the E4. If you have used the E4 and wish to send FLIR your review of its performance, you may be surprised at their generosity and that of their agents. 

[pomonabill221]

Q. Is it worth providing product feedback to FLIR or their agents ?
A. In my case YES   (YMMV)

I provided product feedback, both good and bad, to FLIR and their agent in the UK. I wrote a short review of my experiences using the E4 camera, but nothing too involved. I highlighted my disappointment with the use of a micro USB connector, lack of a tripod socket, and the non ergonomic feeling when having to press the 'down' pad button with the tip of my thumb due to the moulding below. i.e. It was not 'suck up to the manufacturer' type feedback. I also reported an issue with FLIR Tools that turned out to be user error....I was using it in a 1024x600 netbook and this is not supported. I have never before received more than verbal thanks from, a manufacturer but.......

I have received the following items in thanks for my efforts:

1. Soft case of value $40
2. Spare battery of value $50
3. External Charger of value $125
4. FLIR Tools+ of value $400

All these items supplied free to me without any strings attached. In my case it has proven very worthwhile to provide feedback on the E4. If you have used the E4 and wish to send FLIR your review of its performance, you may be surprised at their generosity and that of their agents. 

I noticed that Flir has a form on their website for contact us.... how did you submit your review?  I would like to submit a review also, whether or not they "compensate" me isn't important (but would be nice).

[Fraser]

Hi,

There is a card in the box with a message from Andrew Teich (CEO) FLIR, along with his email address. He invites direct email of comments on the FLIR products. I very much suspect that his PA actually deals with the emails though  That is the email address that I sent my comments to.

[mikeselectricstuff]

Hi,

There is a card in the box with a message from Andrew Teich (CEO) FLIR, along with his email address. He invites direct email of comments on the FLIR products. I very much suspect that his PA actually deals with the emails though  That is the email address that I sent my comments to.

It does get to him - we exchanged a few emails after I sent a link to the review video, and I got a soft case. This was before the teardown vid. but he'd seen my FireFLIR teardown/repair vid. 

[pomonabill221]

Q. Is it worth providing product feedback to FLIR or their agents ?
A. In my case YES   (YMMV)

I provided product feedback, both good and bad, to FLIR and their agent in the UK. I wrote a short review of my experiences using the E4 camera, but nothing too involved. I highlighted my disappointment with the use of a micro USB connector, lack of a tripod socket, and the non ergonomic feeling when having to press the 'down' pad button with the tip of my thumb due to the moulding below. i.e. It was not 'suck up to the manufacturer' type feedback. I also reported an issue with FLIR Tools that turned out to be user error....I was using it in a 1024x600 netbook and this is not supported. I have never before received more than verbal thanks from, a manufacturer but.......

I have received the following items in thanks for my efforts:

1. Soft case of value $40
2. Spare battery of value $50
3. External Charger of value $125
4. FLIR Tools+ of value $400

All these items supplied free to me without any strings attached. In my case it has proven very worthwhile to provide feedback on the E4. If you have used the E4 and wish to send FLIR your review of its performance, you may be surprised at their generosity and that of their agents. 

Sorry for the late reply...
Thank you for the information!  I am going to email him as well... not necessarily for the "gifts" (would be nice though), but I feel that since this is a relatively new product, feedback is probably welcome.
Thank You