Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown

[SeanB]

From the teardowns the module is not there, but the footprints for it are, so it will be easy to just get a compatible one and solder it in and have it work.

[ds]

@Nemonic

Don't change the content of XOR_SECRET, its the value
used to generate the XOR keystream. This string value is
not my invention, its from the firmware.

[Nemonic]

....

Restricting access to the tools and information will if anything breed a "for a fee" upgrade business. The info and tools will leak but less people will have access to avoid the "for a fee". It would also make the accomplishments achieved in this thread more difficult or impossible.

I don't really see why this is the forums concern either. This forum seems to be based on the principle of helping get information out there, publicly available and its members helping each other. Based on everything i've seen in this thread that's exactly what is happening and its great to see such an open helpful community achieving such great things.

First, it is not a small Fee.

And is it ok or not, is not for you or me to say.  It is for those who have put in the time and efforts doing the hack to say.  And they have spoken loudly.

Fair point, those who published their work should rightly have say over how it is used, but i am also not sure how correct this is in regards to a crack. Surely trying to control the usage of software/information which circumvents and alters the usage of another which is also most likely under license a rather strange position? Cake and eat it situation?

In any case i don't want to debate the morality about it, just to say that the information should be free and made available. Any attempt to prevent it through restriction or license will most likely just make things worse and hobble the community with matters it probably shouldn't be worrying about.

What the contributors choose to do is entirely up to them, and i respect that, but i just wanted to share my thoughts on it.

[daves]

Great work guys !

I was few days out and I see you just did it :-D

[uski]

Hi,

From the teardowns the module is not there, but the footprints for it are, so it will be easy to just get a compatible one and solder it in and have it work.

You've seen a teardown of an E30(bx) ?
Not the same hardware as an E4 - I thought of creating another thread for that Exx serie but as the OS is so similar to the E4 and the hacking info is the same, I think it's better to post it here and share (after all the menu hack uses files from the Exx series)

[tomas123]

For those of you with an E30(bx) (not E4) PN 40xxx-xxxx with firmware 2.23.14, you can add Bluetooth by :
- Adding a cheap USB bluetooth dongle (there's the bluetooth USB driver in the OS), see the attached picture
- Modify the \FlashFS\system\services.d\config.d\conf.cfg to enable Bluetooth
...
Another option is to add the driver of a USB Wifi dongle.

curious,
user funzt upgraded the E30 with WiFi and Bluetooth to 320x240 (without a dongle)

E30 has same components inside, WLAN and bluetooth is on board!!!
So it regognize my WLAN android hotspot,

edit:
we talked about this topic on February 12

Thank you tomas123
....
I just hope I can hack it !...

[lewis]

I agree with Nemonic. The ebay sellers are providing a value added service and charging for it. In a free market economy potential buyers can decide for themselves if they wish to pay for the modification or not: a quick google of 'Flir E4 hack' brings this thread pretty close to the top, and any buyers can make their own decision whether they wish to chance the hack themselves or buy from a seller with a known hacked unit. The ebay sellers alleviate some of the risk for the buyer which comes at a price.

If I was one of those ebay sellers (which I'm not) then I would be worried about warranty claims and further repercussions down the line, but there should be nothing to 'stop' entrepreneurial types making a quick buck from otherwise free information. Let customers decide for themselves how to proceed.

Having said all that, I wasn't involved in producing the hack, so those involved may differ in opinion.

[all_repair]

.....The ebay sellers are providing a value added service and charging for it. In a free market economy potential buyers can decide for themselves if they wish to pay for the modification or not.......

From your records, most likely your are not a e4-8 seller on ebay.  I think you have been misled by those who are.  Those selling on e4-8 are not been out front.  The premise of free market is not there. They are the ones forcing the hands of FLIR to stop the hack.  Eevblog or hackaday buyers for e4 are almost a nett gain to FLIR and their resellers as they would not buy a more expensive version or might not have bought a E4 without the hack.  The hacked e4-8 on ebay with the inflated price are reaching out to those who could have bought more expensive version.  The ebay e4-8 represented a Recorded, Loud, and lost sale to FLIR.  It is very difficult for FLIR not to react when people are selling hacked e4-8 on a worldwide online market like EBAY or Amazon at a very high price. 

[solarbot]

Hi All,

I have been looking around to see if it is possible to enable locking the MIN/MAX temp range on the E4 Hacked version - at the mo the two options are auto and locked.  I believe the E8 has this option so hopefully it is possible?

Anyone had any luck with this?

Cheers.

[lewis]

They are the ones forcing the hands of FLIR to stop the hack..........It is very difficult for FLIR not to react when people are selling hacked e4 on a worldwide online market like EBAY or Amazon at a very high price.

That is actually a very good point

[Fraser]

@solarbot,

If the 'Taucher' menus are added you get, amongst many other usefiul options, the selection of upper and lower temperatures and teh ability to move a set temperature 'window' up and down in terms of centre temperature. You also get a very useful Electronic Zoom feature.

[Rasz]

It is very difficult for FLIR not to react when people are selling hacked e4-8 on a worldwide online market like EBAY or Amazon at a very high price.

it is trivial for flir to block those listings as counterfeits

[tom66]

They aren't counterfeit. They are just E4 which have been "performance upgraded".

[mikeselectricstuff]

They aren't counterfeit. They are just E4 which have been "performance upgraded".

Depends on how they are described - using the original manufacturer's name for a modified product could be regarded as "passing off".

[granz]

It is very difficult for FLIR not to react when people are selling hacked e4-8 on a worldwide online market like EBAY or Amazon at a very high price.

it is trivial for flir to block those listings as counterfeits

It's not trivial to stop someone else's listings on eBay.  As a long-time eBay buyer/seller I've had experience with this.  I've reported fraudulent listings etc., it takes eBay forever to do anything about it.

[Rasz]

They aren't counterfeit. They are just E4 which have been "performance upgraded".

so what exactly is the problem? are you all jelly or something ?
I saw couple E4 sold as E8 on bay earlier, those would definitely fall under counterfeit.
There are tons of 'unlocked' Rigol scopes listed, not to mention unlocked phones. Even cars with reflashed ECU.

It's not trivial to stop someone else's listings on eBay.  As a long-time eBay buyer/seller I've had experience with this.  I've reported fraudulent listings etc., it takes eBay forever to do anything about it.

non trivial when you are nobody, too easy if you are a corporation
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/programs-vero-ov.html

[granz]

They aren't counterfeit. They are just E4 which have been "performance upgraded".

so what exactly is the problem? are you all jelly or something ?
I saw couple E4 sold as E8 on bay earlier, those would definitely fall under counterfeit.
There are tons of 'unlocked' Rigol scopes listed, not to mention unlocked phones. Even cars with reflashed ECU.

It's not trivial to stop someone else's listings on eBay.  As a long-time eBay buyer/seller I've had experience with this.  I've reported fraudulent listings etc., it takes eBay forever to do anything about it.

non trivial when you are nobody, too easy if you are a corporation
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/programs-vero-ov.html

I think you greatly overestimate the ability of large corporations to get things done in a timely manner.  Thanks for calling me a nobody btw 

[Rasz]

They aren't counterfeit. They are just E4 which have been "performance upgraded".

so what exactly is the problem? are you all jelly or something ?
I saw couple E4 sold as E8 on bay earlier, those would definitely fall under counterfeit.
There are tons of 'unlocked' Rigol scopes listed, not to mention unlocked phones. Even cars with reflashed ECU.

It's not trivial to stop someone else's listings on eBay.  As a long-time eBay buyer/seller I've had experience with this.  I've reported fraudulent listings etc., it takes eBay forever to do anything about it.

non trivial when you are nobody, too easy if you are a corporation
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/programs-vero-ov.html

I think you greatly overestimate the ability of large corporations to get things done in a timely manner.  Thanks for calling me a nobody btw 

Hey, you are a nobody .. compared to rolex or gucci try listing fake rolex and see how long it takes bay to ban your account.
Vero works similar to Youtube "dmca" takedowns. Big corp says jump, and they jump as high as they can.

[daves]

try listing fake rolex and see how long it takes bay to ban your account.

True. I was not listing any watches or cameras, but anyway I get my auction down in few hours. Luckily not banned account.
Just by using "wrong" words in my description. I guess its done by some automatic mechanism.

[Paulio]

Hi,

Many thanks for the hack, I would never have bought a TIC otherwise!

With regard to the high eBay prices, I think it has little to do with the value added by selling the unit hacked.  The prices went up due to very limited availability of hackable units (firmware < 1.21, whether supplied hacked or unopened and factory fresh).

Now 1.21 has been hacked, the prices should go back down again until supply of 1.21 units dries up and they release the next unhacked firmware.

Cheers!
Paul

[granz]

try listing fake rolex and see how long it takes bay to ban your account.

True. I was not listing any watches or cameras, but anyway I get my auction down in few hours. Luckily not banned account.
Just by using "wrong" words in my description. I guess its done by some automatic mechanism.

Yet eBay is filled with fakes (including Rolex).  Apparently you weren't putting the "right" (wrong?) words in your title + description

Anyhoo, the E4-E8 "upgraded" cameras aren't pretending to be something they aren't.  I'm nore sure how VeRO applies in this case, because it's not a copy.

I'm not saying FLIR couldn't do something about it, but if I were them I wouldn't want to pay someone to scout eBay all the time to find the ones that slipped by (assuming there were lots listed--there are not).  Better to make sure new cameras are more difficult to hack.

[heavybarrel]

OK! First off, just signed up after watching this forum (this thread in particular) for quite some time now! Id like to add my 2 and a half cents to the mix. Id like to thank all the brilliant minds here who have created the "patch" for the e4. I never would have bought one if it wasn't for their hard work, the spoils of which i have enjoyed very much, again, thanks guys!!!!! Now i feel obligated to put a bit of calm to the panic. Apologies if you gents arent getting the same vibe that i am at the moment. Now quite a few people feel that there are sensitive issues at play here. That is surely not the case, i will try to get to most of them and i will do my best not to strike any nerves... In regard to the issue of FLIR being "taken" by those of us who are enjoying the extra features enabled by this "patch", If FLIR was paying close attention..... what they really aught to do is add more complex features to the higher line cameras and let the good community "have this one" on good faith. Afterall, i dont think anyone here can rightfully say they haven't learned something here. Besides, if you buy a brand new Chevy does the manufacturer get upset if you paint it a new color? Do they get upset if you rip out the motor and put in one that performs better? More appropriate.... Do the manufacturers get upset when you upgrade the ram, hard disk, graphics card, operating system, on your computer?? No, they don't! This is exactly the case here, users of the hardware have merely found a way to  "unlock included hardware features." If the good people at FLIR didn't want or intend this to happen, i say "oops!"  Do you think the folks at the Chevy dealership will void their manufacturers warranty if you have a new paint color, different set of rims and tires, and a new stereo? I think not! FLIR should probably at this point call it a wash because there have been "ABSOLUTELY NO LAWS BROKEN HERE!!!" International law states that it is the manufacturers position to provide a product that can not be used for harmful or destructive purposes, i highly doubt any of the cameras in the e series could be used for such unless you used one to hit yourself on the head. Even then, they are actually made pretty soft and comfortable!!
Lets look at the sales facts for a second shall we!
1000 dollar camera upgraded to a 6000 dollar camera purchased by someone who can afford 1000 = no loss to FLIR
1000 dollar camera sold on ebay for "eeehhh mayyyy beee  too much" = No loss to FLIR
1000 dollar camera sold by FLIR for 1000 = no loss to FLIR
1000 dollar camera sold by FLIR without the patch = no loss to FLIR
6000 dollar camera sold by FLIR that people wouldn't normally buy or be able to afford = no real loss to FLIR taking into account sales to business that would normally not care about the price (right off!! = freebie)
We should remember that these aren't available at your local wal mart, all of these cameras come from FLIR distributers,  there is no money being lost here, only gained. With that said, its ALL LEGAL fellas!!! Now if someone is advertising a FLIR e4 as an e8, yes that's a problem. If it is advertised as what it actually is.... buyer makes the choice.
Having laid out my position on the matter i look forward to the rest of the ee's and the like here keeping up the good work!!

Cheers to all of us!!

[granz]

...
1000 dollar camera upgraded to a 6000 dollar camera purchased by someone who can afford 1000 = no loss to FLIR
1000 dollar camera sold on ebay for "eeehhh mayyyy beee  too much" = No loss to FLIR
1000 dollar camera sold by FLIR for 1000 = no loss to FLIR
1000 dollar camera sold by FLIR without the patch = no loss to FLIR
6000 dollar camera sold by FLIR that people wouldn't normally buy or be able to afford = no real loss to FLIR taking into account sales to business that would normally not care about the price (right off!! = freebie)
We should remember that these aren't available at your local wal mart, all of these cameras come from FLIR distributers,  there is no money being lost here, only gained. With that said, its ALL LEGAL fellas!!! Now if someone is advertising a FLIR e4 as an e8, yes that's a problem. If it is advertised as what it actually is.... buyer makes the choice.
Having laid out my position on the matter i look forward to the rest of the ee's and the like here keeping up the good work!!

Cheers to all of us!!

It disturbs their projected sales to each market segment (or perhaps they believe it could).  Makes the marketing folks upset 

[heavybarrel]

I would bet their projected sales of the e4 have gone off the paper! Again, FLIR hasn't lost a penny on this one. In fact, they have probably made more that i do in 10 years of hard work! My personal property (the e4) is happily doing what id like it to! Hope FLIR has no issues with that. ??

[cuda12]

My Problem with the ebay sales since the beginning is the title and description on a lot of the ads are a bit misleading to the general public. E-4 -E8 in the title etc. I mean after all a real e-8 comes with an extra battery and a warranty.But like they say a fool and his money....