Poll

Has the hackabiliy of the E4 made you buy one :  

Yes, I was already looking at the competition at a similar price, but the hack swung it to E4
274 (27.9%)
Yes, I'd not considered buying a TIC before, but 320x240 resolution at this price justifies it (as either tool or toy!)
444 (45.3%)
Yes, I was going to buy an E5/6/8 class of unit but will now get the E4
49 (5%)
No, but am looking out for a cheap i3 to hack
50 (5.1%)
Not yet, but probably will if now that a closed-box hack becomes is possible
164 (16.7%)

Total Members Voted: 803

Author Topic: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown  (Read 3770559 times)

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Offline olsenn

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #575 on: November 04, 2013, 02:05:20 pm »
I ordered one from tequipment yesterday and they have (or had at least) several in stock
 

Offline pmcouto

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #576 on: November 04, 2013, 02:58:26 pm »
Today I had an “official” E8 in my hands and the lens is the same as E4 – At least, there’s no visible difference.
The MSX feature is very useful, even at 320x240.

P.S.
No, I was not shopping for a new E4  >:D
I already have an E50.  ;D
 

Offline zapta

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #577 on: November 04, 2013, 03:21:02 pm »
Flir has a new market opened for it, TIC's for people that don't really need it.
 

Offline Petrlib

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #578 on: November 04, 2013, 03:23:12 pm »
Hello my friends. I am just waiting for my new E5. Will be possible to do "E8 hack" on this device too? Will be complicated to do for newbies as I am? Sorry for my not perfect english but I hope you will understand..
 

Offline nova1200

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #579 on: November 04, 2013, 03:31:21 pm »
Also regarding the lens, FWIW, it seems both E4 and E8 list the lens model as "FOL7" in their image metadata, and least based on an early E8 image found on the web. I used exiftool to dump the info; very nice tool which can also extract the raw thermal and visible images from a FLIR jpg.
 

Offline Pinkus

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #580 on: November 04, 2013, 03:35:22 pm »
The serial of my E4 is 639047xx (last two digits are replaced by 'x'). I assume 639 is set as model number; as Mikes serial is  639037xx. So a few thousands are in the market (if they started with 0).

I've not really looked at features of the E8 compared to other units at a similar price, but £4700 seems a lot for a unit with no manual focus, manual temp range selection, wifi, touchscreen etc. even compared to the FLir Ex0 series.
I think the E4 E8 is pretty usable now, the only feature I am really  missing is the manual temperature range selection. Wifi etc. would be nice but is not really important.
Mike: as I remember correctly, you mentioned a few days ago, that temp. range selection can be done through the UART interface. Will this be possible any time in the regular shooting mode? Then a small ATTiny solution could be possible: By using an incremental encoder with pushbutton function there would be only one external item as the user interface needed. The display would then show the selected temp. range anyway.
 

Offline Pinkus

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #581 on: November 04, 2013, 03:37:58 pm »
Also regarding the lens, FWIW, it seems both E4 and E8 list the lens model as "FOL7" in their image metadata, and least based on an early E8 image found on the web. I used exiftool to dump the info; very nice tool which can also extract the raw thermal and visible images from a FLIR jpg.
FOL is just the focal length. As the focal length is 6.5mm they are rounding up to FOL7.
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #582 on: November 04, 2013, 03:40:04 pm »
Regarding buying a TIC that you don't really 'need'...... I am fighting the urge to buy an E4. I already own several thermal cameras, four of which outperform the E series. BUT I still like the E4 with its upgrade potential. I believe it is a psychological  thing....being able to buy a relatively cheap model and upgrade it to a more expensive specification. My heart wants one but my logical side is holding me back due to the lack of manual modes and less than simple adjustment of focus.
GBP960 is still a lot of money to your average Jo, and I am no different.
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Offline mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #583 on: November 04, 2013, 03:54:56 pm »
The serial of my E4 is 639047xx (last two digits are replaced by 'x'). I assume 639 is set as model number; as Mikes serial is  639037xx. So a few thousands are in the market (if they started with 0).

I've not really looked at features of the E8 compared to other units at a similar price, but £4700 seems a lot for a unit with no manual focus, manual temp range selection, wifi, touchscreen etc. even compared to the FLir Ex0 series.
I think the E4 E8 is pretty usable now, the only feature I am really  missing is the manual temperature range selection. Wifi etc. would be nice but is not really important.
Mike: as I remember correctly, you mentioned a few days ago, that temp. range selection can be done through the UART interface. Will this be possible any time in the regular shooting mode? Then a small ATTiny solution could be possible: By using an incremental encoder with pushbutton function there would be only one external item as the user interface needed. The display would then show the selected temp. range anyway.
Yes - it's just a couple of console commands (span and level I think). You need to be in locked temp mode - not sure if you can lock/unlock via the console but may be possible. I think the values are arbitary numbers, but the onscreen temp scale does update.

I suppose one option would be to do a board that sits inline with the keypad cable and connects to the serial FFC connector. And work out some magic key sequences to activate your functionality.
Another option may be to mod the battery base to add buttons.
or an accelerometer that recognises a 'magic shake'
or a hall sensor so you can use an external magnet to activate.

You may be able to read data via the console to infer enough info about the UI state to be able to activate & control a mod board - you can certainly read the current span and level, so if these freeze you an infer that the range has been locked.
there might be a way to read button states as well.
While you're at it another handy extra may be a freeze button to hold the current image, again easy to do with the console.   

I wonder if you could slip in a touchscreen, or some capsense buttons between the screen and the fascia?

 
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Offline mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #584 on: November 04, 2013, 03:56:02 pm »
Regarding buying a TIC that you don't really 'need'...... I am fighting the urge to buy an E4. I already own several thermal cameras, four of which outperform the E series. BUT I still like the E4 with its upgrade potential. I believe it is a psychological  thing....being able to buy a relatively cheap model and upgrade it to a more expensive specification. My heart wants one but my logical side is holding me back due to the lack of manual modes and less than simple adjustment of focus.
GBP960 is still a lot of money to your average Jo, and I am no different.
well you could always sell one of the other ones.... (BTW was it you that picked up that Irisys people counter? - PM me if you want to sell it) 
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Offline mrflibble

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #585 on: November 04, 2013, 04:00:45 pm »
Mike: as I remember correctly, you mentioned a few days ago, that temp. range selection can be done through the UART interface. Will this be possible any time in the regular shooting mode? Then a small ATTiny solution could be possible: By using an incremental encoder with pushbutton function there would be only one external item as the user interface needed. The display would then show the selected temp. range anyway.

That's also what I recall, the temp range being settable through UART. I was thinking of an msp430 + buttons (or capsense slider) + bluetooth module as possible battery slurping additions... Or maybe an accelerometer to give it the secret handshake. :P The usability would depend a bit on how fast the respons to a range set command is + any easy to operate locations for a button.
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #586 on: November 04, 2013, 04:04:35 pm »
I suppose one option would be to do a board that sits inline with the keypad cable and connects to the serial FFC connector. And work out some magic key sequences to activate your functionality.

Yeah, thought about the mcu-in-the-middle as well for the keypad. But then you'll have to keep track of the UI state, which can get annoying real fast.

And touchscreen would indeed be funky, but that only gets to be meaningful (IMO) when you can integrate that properly into the GUI. Otherwise it's just too much hassle for what you get in return.

Custom GUI anyone?  ;D
 

Offline Fraser

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #587 on: November 04, 2013, 04:10:41 pm »
Hi Mike,

Sell one of my 'babies'  :scared:

I may sell a Talisman but the FLIR PM570's and 695's are ITAR liable so selling them is complicated  ;)

Yes I bought the IRISYS people counter.

The rear labelling says:

IRC 1004-3
CAN Master

I have not used it so would be willing to sell it on as I have other projects to get on with.

IRISYS told me that it can be easily accessed via the low voltage RS232 serial interface. I was also given the software to do so. Itsin very nice condition and has not been taken apart  :)

PM me what you think it is worth to you and I will provide a fast response.

I attach pictures.
If I have helped you please consider a donation : https://gofund.me/c86b0a2c
 

Offline firewire

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #588 on: November 04, 2013, 04:20:46 pm »
I know a few people have posted where they purchased their unit and the price. Can we start a list of Supplier names and prices?
I'm sure there are many more ready to hit the go button. Thanks

http://www.valuetesters.com/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-msx-enabled.html Advertised price is $995, but $895 if you "request a quote via email".
 

Offline mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #589 on: November 04, 2013, 04:22:04 pm »
And touchscreen would indeed be funky, but that only gets to be meaningful (IMO) when you can integrate that properly into the GUI. Otherwise it's just too much hassle for what you get in return.
Not necessarily - if you could just add maybe a strip at the bottom or side using a thin PCB, you could create some virtual buttons at fixed positions just outside the visible area - you don't really need much - just an up/down for span and level when you detect that locked mode has been entered.
 
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Offline cyr

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #590 on: November 04, 2013, 04:24:33 pm »
Resistance was futile, another E4 sale thanks to Mike...
 

Offline termi

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #591 on: November 04, 2013, 04:28:22 pm »
Another one sold ... couldn't resist for <USD880 shipped   ;D

Thanks Mike and eevblog community!
 

Offline mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #592 on: November 04, 2013, 04:38:48 pm »
I know a few people have posted where they purchased their unit and the price. Can we start a list of Supplier names and prices?
I'm sure there are many more ready to hit the go button. Thanks

http://www.valuetesters.com/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-msx-enabled.html Advertised price is $995, but $895 if you "request a quote via email".

From their website :
Quote
Value Testers sells worldwide.  Our sales people have a great deal of experience with international markets, as we have sold to almost 150 countries worldwide.  We provide excellent customer service that is based on building relationships with our customers who become our friends.  Value Testers helps customers to select products that exactly match their needs and at the same time are the least expensive solution.  We also help customers to find the best and resonably priced shipping.  We work as a team to help our customers.
Quote
Amprobe and Fluke products can be shipped only within US, as per agreement between manufacturers and US distributors.  The same relates to Thermal Imagers frequency 33kHz or higher.
33kHz?

Has anyone tried ordering from outside US?
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Offline Pinkus

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #593 on: November 04, 2013, 04:53:24 pm »
Yeah, thought about the mcu-in-the-middle as well for the keypad. But then you'll have to keep track of the UI state, which can get annoying real fast.
Not neccessarily: At least with the current firmware, most buttons do not have any functionality when you are in regular shooting mode. So you might either check for combinations like
Back-button (upper right button) pressed together with up / down and left/right
or just using these buttons as they do not have any function anyway:

Some ideas:
Enable manual temperature mode: pressing 'back-button' for >1 second
up/down: setting upper temperature (each short click +/- 0.5°C for example; each longer click +/- 5°C)
left/right: setting lower temperature
disable edit mode:  pressing middle button

Also a remember function might be useful: entering the edit mode and then pressing the middle push button first, will set the values used last time and exits edit mode.

Well, the above will work if you are not in locked mode, but it will also do no harm.

Any other ideas which could be useful and which can be set by the UART interface?


As my camera is still closed (only removed the front yet to get access to the UART connector): does anybody know how many wires the FPC for the keyboard has? I assume 0.5mm spacing? The current functionality indicates that the E4 is not using a matrix but single lines for each button = then 9 wires would be needed as minimum.

« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 04:56:26 pm by PeterK13 »
 

Offline mrflibble

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #594 on: November 04, 2013, 04:59:54 pm »
Not necessarily - if you could just add maybe a strip at the bottom or side using a thin PCB, you could create some virtual buttons at fixed positions just outside the visible area - you don't really need much - just an up/down for span and level when you detect that locked mode has been entered.

True, but for me that would be too much hassle for what you get in return. As in, if the only functionality I get is some fixed function virtual buttons, I think I would just go with some actual buttons. As for an actual touchscreen fully covering the LCD, do you think the case would accommodate that? I would expect so, but I haven't had an E4 in my hands yet.  :D
 

Offline mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #595 on: November 04, 2013, 05:04:37 pm »
Yeah, thought about the mcu-in-the-middle as well for the keypad. But then you'll have to keep track of the UI state, which can get annoying real fast.
Not neccessarily: At least with the current firmware, most buttons do not have any functionality when you are in regular shooting mode.
Not strictly true once hacked - blue-below and red-above palette options use up/down.
and you need to reliably determine when you are in regular shooting mode.
Quote

 
Any other ideas which could be useful and which can be set by the UART interface?
Look through the PDF linked a while ago that documents a lot of the comamnd line stuff.

Quote
As my camera is still closed (only removed the front yet to get access to the UART connector): does anybody know how many wires the FPC for the keyboard has? I assume 0.5mm spacing? The current functionality indicates that the E4 is not using a matrix but single lines for each button = then 9 wires would be needed as minimum.
Not offhand but have a look in the teardown vid in case you can see it.
I think it may be 1mm pitch - will check.
If you can get something behind the display window for some touch buttons I think that would be the neatest option. You could maybe even do sliders..!
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 05:06:55 pm by mikeselectricstuff »
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Offline mrflibble

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #596 on: November 04, 2013, 05:10:58 pm »
The FFC for the keyboard looks to have 8 connections.

Edit: and looks to be 1mm pitch yeah.
« Last Edit: November 04, 2013, 05:14:43 pm by mrflibble »
 

Offline ixfd64

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #597 on: November 04, 2013, 05:23:36 pm »
Does the original hack also enable picture-in-picture, or does that require additional steps?

Offline Pinkus

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #598 on: November 04, 2013, 05:32:50 pm »
Quote
The FFC for the keyboard looks to have 8 connections.
mmmh- 4x4 matrix then. The same PCB might be used for other Flir cameras where they are using more buttons.

Quote
Not strictly true once hacked - blue-below and red-above palette options use up/down.
Thats correct; I forgot that.
Quote
and you need to reliably determine when you are in regular shooting mode.
Not really, because if I recognize the pressed keys in parallel (= µC is not inbetween); the worst thing which could happpen, would be an accidentely sent manual temperature set which only would be accepted when in lock mode. However I shall add a time function that the edit mode will exit anyway after 5 seconds without any pressed key.
 

Offline mikeselectricstuffTopic starter

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Re: Flir E4 Thermal imaging camera teardown
« Reply #599 on: November 04, 2013, 05:40:24 pm »
Does the original hack also enable picture-in-picture, or does that require additional steps?
The only hack that doesn't do PIP is the very first one of simply running in service mode with no tweaked files. 
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