flir MK1 I3 not charging

[pimpinge46]

My Flir is not charging . I tested the factory charger and it has its 5v out . I believe it is something wrong with the internal charger.    Just wondering if anyone has had made this repairs before and what to look for ? Also when i was trying to pull it apart , i was unable to remove the PC board from the metal housing. It seems to be hung up on something.


Thanks
dave
 

[Fraser]

Dave,

The most common failure is the protection device that protects against reverse polarity. It will sit in series with the power input socket and likely have a diode connected from it to the 0V rail. It serves to protect against reverse polarity

I have yet to open my i5 so do not know the topology of the cameras PCB.

The Main PCB is directly connected to the microbolometer via a multi pin connector. You need to gently pull the PCB away from the metal chassis plate that contains the microbolometer module.

I attach pictures of the disassembled camera taken from a reverse engineering report.

Fraser

Fraer

[pimpinge46]

That helps a lot thanks !!! Now i have to try to figure out what component is damaged .  You wouldn't of happen to have a higher res picture of the board ?

[Fraser]

Sadly no. I grabbed the imaged out of a PDF document that detailed the reverse costing analysis of the i7 camera. I was using the pictures to try to identify the locations of the case fixing screws.

I am not aware of the circumstances of your cameras failure. Did it fail in normal service in your ownership and using only the official FLIR power supply unit ? Will the camera run off of the power supply if the Lithium Battery is removed ? (It should).

If it is only the battery charging function that has failed that is likely just bad luck and the charger circuit has a fault. If the camera will not run off of the power supply with no battery connected, it is likely the protection fuse or polyfuse that has failed at the power input.

If you bought the camera as faulty and do not know the history of the fault, you are faced with two common user errors that lead to power input failure

1. Wrong power supply used - incorrect polarity.
2. Wrong power supply used - too high a voltage

In scenario 1, it is common for an input protection component to sacrifice itself. Some are auto-resetting, others fail and require repair.
In scenario 2 there is the potential for much significant damage to the camera. Input polarity protection does not help as teh polarity is correct, the excess voltage is passed to the charging circuit and the cameras power control MOSFET. If te camera has any rails directly connected to the power connector, the circuits connected to such will often be damaged. If the camera is switched on with excess voltage connected, all manner f mayhem can ensue as regulator blocks become over-volted and damaged. It is worth remembering in such scenarios that the equipment is never'OFF' it is always in a stand-by or deep sleep mode. Therefore power is always connected to circuits that control power distribution within the camera. these may be as simple as some transistors and a MOSFET, or as complex as a microcontroller driving a Mosfet.

I almost bought a faulty Extech thermal camera the other day on ebay.com. That one had a charge fault as well. As long as the camera functions perfectly in all respects except battery charging, it is not normally a difficult task to repair the charging or power control circuits. The small size of the components can make such a challenge however.

If you can post some pictures of your cameras PCB and some detailed pictures around the DC power input, I may be able to help further. Once I have my i5 dismantled I can likely provide more help, if needed.

Fraser

Fraser

[pimpinge46]

I purchased second hand .  I believe it does not  even plugged in. If i charge the battery externally and place it back in it works fine .   I will have to pull it all part this weekend and take some detailed pics and  post them. Thanks !

[Fraser]

That is helpful.

If it will not run directly off of the DC power socket, it is very likely that it is simply the protection fusible component that has failed. Hopefully a simple repair for you 

If I get time, I will reverse engineer my i5 PCB around the power input for you.

Fraser

[pimpinge46]

Here are some pics of the board that I took yesterday

[Fraser]

Is there continuity between the centre pin of the power socket and both sides of the inductor with 'DD' written on top. That inductor is part of the input filtering.

I have not had time to dismantle my i5 yet but when I do I can provide you with some more help.

Fraser

[pimpinge46]

Great thanks!

[Fraser]

I have just dismantled my i5 and will start a new thread on the teardown. I will look at the DC input circuit and report back here soon.

Fraser

[pimpinge46]

Here are some pics I took when I took it apart if you would like to use them in your teardown post.
Thanks dave

[Fraser]

Pimpinge46,

Thanks for the pictures.

I have just sketched out the DC input circuit. Please see attached.

There is no true fuse present in the input which was a surprise. There is a component that I suspect will act like a fuse though.

Description of input......

The 5V DC adapter connects to the DC input connector. The voltage is provided with some filtering via C1 and L1. The supply passes through the surface mount ferrite inductor L1 and is presented to the reverse polarity protection diode D1. If the polarity is correct, the supply is further filtered by C2 and L2. The supply then enters the Charge and System power management IC type bq24032ARHLT. This IC will control the charging of the Lithium battery and power supplied to the cameras circuits.

If an incorrect polarity power supply is connected to the camera the protection diode D1 will conduct heavily to protect the power management IC. The high current draw through L1 will likely overload it and it will fail open circuit or even desolder iself from the PCB !  (I have witnessed such)

If an overvoltage has been applied to the cameras DC input, it is possible that the bq24032 IC has been damaged.

Where is L1 ? ..... L1 is located on the opposite side of the PCB to that of the DC connector. It looks like a large grey surface mount resistor but it is made of ferrite material. Check that it reads virtually zero ohms across its connections. Also check that the protection diode D1 has not gone short circuit by checking it with a multimeter.

Hope this helps

Fraser

[pimpinge46]

Hi fraser,
That makes it a lot easier.  I did test L1 when I first pulled it apart. I have a feeling it's the ic, but will check everything else first.
 
Thanks
Dave

[Fraser]

Hiya,

Just in case needed.... some badly annotated pictures showing component positions.

IC1 is a bit of a pig to replace I regret to say. You will definitely need a decent hot air station to remove it and to fit a new one.

Download the datasheet and have a good check around its pins before declaring it dead.

The Datasheet is too large to attach, but may be found here

http://www.ti.com/product/BQ24032A

Fraser

[pimpinge46]

Fraser,
Thank you very much!!!!  It end up being the diode  (d1) lifted one leg and now it works fine. It looks like it was shorted . I would like to replace it but need to figure out what the value is first. For now everything is working fine and I have the factory charger so I'm not to worried. Thanks again

[Fraser]

The marking on the diode is "AE" with the manufacturer ID "LF"

It is a Little Fuse TVS protection diode type SMAJ5.0A

These can go short circuit for a variety of reasons. The important thing is that it did so and saved your camera from further damage.

I attach the datasheet. Any TVS diode with similar specifications will work in this role.

Specs are as follows:

Transient Voltage suppressor type SMAJ5.0A

Reverse stand-off voltage = 5.0V
Breakdown Voltage = 6.40V to 7.00V
Maximum clamping voltage = 9.2V
Max peak pulse current = 43.5A
Max reverse leakage current = 800uA

Give the dead one a suitable burial...... it gave its life to save your camera 

Fraser

[Fraser]

Just in case anyone needs it, I attach a better image of my input circuit schematic.

I suspect that there is also a tantalum capacitor across the supply rail as well but re-assembled my camera last night so cannot check. It is sitting adjacent to the TVS diode D1 on the PCB. Tantalum capacitors can be another failure prone component and can even suffer a burn-up when they fail.

Fraser

[Bill W]

I hope the tantalum is not that exposed to the outside world or it will go sooner or later from input surge as it charges up from the 2.2mF or whatever lurking in the PSU.  Should be after L2 at least and 25V, or Al electrolytic.

Bill

[Fraser]

I hate not knowing so I disassembled my i5 again.

The Tant capacitor near to D1 IS NOT connected to the DC input circuit. It just looked like it might be, hence I thought I had missed it off of the sketch I did.

I should also correct my sketch to show D1 as a TVS diode that protects against transients and over voltage situations, as well as reverse polarity. Can't be bothered to do so at the moment though

Fraser

[pimpinge46]

Just a quick update. The unit charges fine , shows when it plugged in the screen and led on the light up and changes color when charged. The only strange thing that it does is, if you remove the plug the led will not shut off unless u pull the battery or hit the reset button. The only thing I can think of is mabye the chip got damage at some point. But that's something I can live with just happy it's charging now and I allready replaced the protection diode so no more damage will occur.

[Fraser]

My i5 has a red LED, the light from which is just visible in the keypad area. I noted that even when I switch off my i5 that this LED remains lit. I believe this has something to do with the stanby states of these cameras.

The E4 has two standby states...... Standby 1 is after the power button is pressed to turn off the camera. This places the camera in 'Hot' standby, ready to run in seconds after the power button is pressed. After a period of time the camera goes from Standby 1 to Standby 2. Standby 2 is effectively 'Off' and when the power button is pressed the camera has to go through the complete boot sequence before it is up and running. Maybe the i5 is similar in its behaviour ?

I shall check my i5 behaviour for you today.

Fraser

[Fraser]

OK I have just placed my i5 on charge in order to check the LED behaviour. I have not used it since purchase so did not note if the charge LED stayed lit after charge.

I have taken some pictures of the cameras current LED state. The power pack is connected to the camera and the Charge LED is lit Orange. It extinguishes as soon as I disconnect the power pack. I will test it again once it has gone to green.

I have also captured an image of the very dim red LED light that may be seen coming from behind the keypad. It is dim so I had to take a picture in a darkened room to capture it. This red light is present even after the camera is switched off and I suspect it indicates that the camera is in Standby 1 state so ready for a 'Hot' start. The light is not light bleed coming from the Orange charge LED.

Finally I include a picture of the power pack that I am using with my camera. The original was missing so I bought a nice quality Sony unit that is used with their Tablet computers and rated at the required 5C @ 2A. I tend to buy new or used power packs that were intended for use with quality branded equipment in preference to @universal' or 'Generic' power packs from China. The branded units tend to be of better quality (if genuine and not Fake !) I bought several of these Sony SGPAC5V2 units from a Sony dealer at £9 each. They are perfect for this camera and my NEC AVIO F30's. The connector is also the correct size which is a bonus. For info, any charger of charge cable designed for the SONY PSP is suitable for the i5. I also bought a Sony PSP cable that has a USB A connector at one end and both a charger plug and Mini USB at the other. Perfect for the i5 and t costs around £2 from China.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Looking at the PCB pictures that i took during the i5 teardown, I can see the small LED responsible for the red glow behind the cameras keypad.
I placed a circle around the LED on the attached picture. I would expect such an LED to be a form of 'Heartbeat' indicator that shows that the camera is running, but in Standby 1 mode, ready to restart without a full boot.

Fraser

[Fraser]

OK confirmed, the Charge LED does go to Green on my camera when fully charged and it DOES extinguish when the power pack is disconnected.

This does suggest a problem remains in the camera. How serious this is depends upon its nature. Removing the battery or a full Reset via the reset button likely removes power from the peripheral circuits around the microprocessor and so so unlatches the power to the Charge indicator. I have not looked at the charge circuit in any detail but it would be worth looking at the charge status signals coming out of the charge controller and then look at any LED driver circuit associated with such. You may well find a fault in the LED driver circuit, rather than the charge controller.

I suspect your camera was exposed to an over voltage event at the DC in connector. The charge controller is exposed to damage from such but that damage will normally kill it so the TVS diode may have saved it from damage. There could be other circuits connected to the DC input jack that were not o lucky though. An simple LED driver could well be connected directly to the DC input connector as it does not require any regulation etc. The charge indicator could be some form of simple flip-flop that is driven from the charge controller. Part of it may have become damaged and once in that state, stays on until power is removed.

It is worth investigating further as using the RESET or puling the battery is not ideal and could be unhealthy for the camera.

Fraser

[pimpinge46]

The funny thing about it , is when it's fully charged and you pull the plug it goes from lite green to orange and if you plug it right back it changes to lite green.  Also confirmed that the rest button does not turn only pulling the battery. And finally it will only charge the factory battery(green one )not the afterror market one that I have. What would cause that?