Fraser's latest acquisition - The FLIR A40 M - an impressive beast :)

[CatalinaWOW]

Fraser, you would love an all reflective optical zoom that I once worked with.  Part of a lab setup it also could change zoom ratio extremely rapidly.  Needed a crane to move and kW to operate but could do some really interesting stuff.  Since its application was superseded by technology decades ago it probably is sitting in a surplus lot somewhere or has been broken up for scrap metal. 

[Chanc3]

Fraser, I believe you'll have to use the older FLIR Researcher Pro software to connect to the camera via firewire. I think it's from the same generation as our SC640, which we use with firewire to fibre optics to firewire on our 30m mast. Pretty sure I've seen the settings for it on there.

Sent from my ONE A2003 using Tapatalk

[Fraser]

Chanc3,

Many thanks for that information.

I read the FLIR FAQ's for Firewire cameras and also noted that it is best to use the standard Windows XP supplied Firewire host chipset drivers rather than any vendor specific drivers ! Odd but true.

I have several different  FLIR image analysis and reporting packages that may work with the A40. I will build a Firewire equipped laptop to test them. From what I can establish even my FLIR TOOLS+ software will work with the A40.

I have a sneaky suspicion that the A40 may be electronically similar to the 'P' series cameras.

Fraser

[sam1275]

Thank you for your reply.
I've seen some continuous optical zoom thermal cameras, but they all seems to be with a cooled MWIR sensor, I've also noticed their lens aperture are all small (f4-5 or so).
I think maybe the lens aperture can't be as big as fixed FOV ones, otherwise the zoom lens will be too huge/expensive, so smaller aperture need cooled sensor which have higher sensitivity.

[amexlive]

Hello Friends,
I have the same camera Flir A40 with FireWire port. Could you please write me how I can use it via USB or LAN, maybe have adapters FireWire to USB or LAN ...
Thnak you in advance!

[Spirit532]

FireWire is realtime serial, and it physically cannot be converted to USB, Ethernet, or any other packet-based host-driven protocol.

[Fraser]

+1

You have to use Firewire to connect this camera to a computer. It will, of course, operate on its own without a computer, using its keypad and provide video out on its BNC port.

Firewire to USB converters for AV control,applications have existed but I have read nothing good about them. As has been stated by Spirit532, Firewire is a continuous data stream format that is totally different to USB or Ethernet. The AV world has been looking at ways to use Firewire products with USB for years. The conclusion the AV community came to is to purchase a Firewire PCMCIA or PCI card, depending upon the PC used. It is often cheaper to buy a used laptop with Firewire already present, than to buy any sort of so called Firewire to USB converter. Such converters are basically just an embedded computer that tries to cache the Firewire data and convert it to USB or Ethernet. Modern laptops often do not have a PCMCIA port so are not useable in this scenario. Also note that when using a Firewire card of any sort, FLIR recommend using the Microsoft generic driver rather than the cards included driver as incompatibilities can otherwise occur. Also note that Microsoft ceased TCP-IP support after Win XP

For info, I use a Dell Latitude X300 laptop that is running XP Pro on its M 1.2GHz Based hardware. I use FLIR Researcher 2.10 and ResearchIR 4 Max on that laptop.

Fraser

[Fraser]

If desperate to try a Firewire to USB converter.... I know of only one that was commonly available, namely the Pinnacle Moviebox that is pebble shaped, not the later square shaped model. It could wrap Firewire data in packets that were sent over USB2. The PC has a driver installed that fools software into thinking the data is coming from a Firewire interface rather than a USB port. This may or may not work with FLIR software as I know such can be fussy !

The unit it worked for Camcorder DV data transfer, but with very mixed user experiences. It worked on some computers, but not others due to differing USB port chip sets plus driver incompatibilities and it could be hard to get working on more modern laptops. These units sell for silly expensive prices on eBay, so think carefully before spending your money. For the same or less money you can buy a good used i7 laptop from HP that has either an integral IEEE-1394 port, or an Extresscard slot to add one.

The Moviebox went obsolete some time ago and Firewire is now considered a legacy interface by many. There is no money in producing such a converter again and the risks of incompatibility make it a poor buy unless very cheap. The Moviebox could be purchased for $100 when released. They are now being sold 'new' on eBay at around $170 due to rarity. Used units sell for around half that price.

I cannot recommend the converter route as it carries high risk of failure and makes little economic sense with so many cheap Firewire equipped used laptops around these days. Some people actually had to buy another laptop that was compatible with the Moviebox ! Pure madness when laptops were still available with a IEEE-1394 port built in. That being said, some people bought the Moveiebix for analogue video capture. The DV to USB converter was just an added feature that many did not even use.

Fraser

[Fraser]

There are plenty of reviews and videos on the Pinnacle Moviebox available on YouTube. Do check the AV forums for user experiences though !

https://youtu.be/BthebohwsDk

Fraser

[amexlive]

Thank you very much for the super detailed information about FireWire for this thermal camera! I have now one Lenovo T61 and I can use it with PCMCIA to FIREWIRE adapter and the camera work but I want to use it to another PC (Intel NUC i5). I will try with  Pinnacle Moviebox if I can find it at good price.

[rsjsouza]

Firewire to USB converters for AV control,applications have existed

If you are in Mac world, you could always use one of these: https://www.apple.com/shop/product/MD464LL/A/apple-thunderbolt-to-firewire-adapter?afid=p219%7CGOUS&cid=AOS-US-KWG-PLA

[Fraser]

I just took a look at the NUC computers. With regret I think you could hit trouble with using a NUC + Moviebox with the A40.

1. The NUC is relatively modern and anything later than a Win XP computer can be a problem with the A40 Firewire communications.

2. The Moviebox is known to be less reliable with more modern computers. The NUC seems too modern.

3. You lose the A40 Firewire TCP-IP network capability if using an OS later than Win XP. TheA40 contains a web server and this needs TCP-IP connectivity.

I have just looked at some very nice laptops that include a Firewire port in their standard spec. Some may be able to run Windows XP. Most were less than £100 and all would likely perform better than the NUC + Movelbix.

I am not sure whether the Moviebox could cope with TCP-IP communications.

It is now clear why AV enthusiasts tended to ignore the Moviebox if they could buy a relatively cheap Firewire equipped laptop that is an 'all in one' solution.

The FLIR A40 was designed in the heyday of Windows XP and IEEE1394 communications. As such you need to consider using hardware and software of that period to ensure ease of use. Do think very carefully before wasting good money on the Moviebox that could easily buy you a very nice condition branded Laptop running an i5 or i7 Processor.

Fraser

[MrSheep]

Hey Fraser,

Were you able to get firewire to work with your A40M? Curious because I have a firewire camera that I would like to use but it still doesn't connect properly.

I've tried windows 7 and 10 using the legacy Firewire driver as stated here: https://flir.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1253/~/firewire-cameras

Could you elaborate on the windows XP and the TCP/IP.

Thanks

[Fraser]

Hi MrSheep,

Yes I have had the A40 and it’s little brother, the A20, working well via FireWire.

I used my trusty Dell Latitude X300 running Windows XP SP3 and FLIR Researcher 2.8 to control the camera. It was very simple and I met no problems talking to the camera. I was also able to access the cameras web server without difficulties.

Some time ago I read a FLIR article that stated Microsoft had deleted FireWire TCP/IP support from Windows XP with SP1. They stated that this could cause problems communicating with their FireWire cameras. That said, I have since heard that FLIR FireWire cameras work fine with Windows XP right up to SP3.

I cannot remember whether I have used the A40 with FLIR ResearchIR 4 Max. That is installed on a non FireWire laptop so maybe not.

Try accessing the web server on the A40 to test the communications link and cameras FireWire interface. I use 4 wire FireWire and power the camera from its mains PSU.

If you need and drivers etc, I can supply them, but I think FLIR has the A40 driver pack on their web site for download.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Ah, just reading your post again, I am not certain that the FireWire camera that you are trying to connect is an A40.

I have experience with other FireWire connected thermal cameras and can say that they are a bit of a nightmare if they do not “just connect”. In my experience the problems are usually caused by not having the correct driver. This was the case with NEC AVIO camera that I was trying to connect to my Dell X300 laptop. I had the official, latest, FireWire driver that was supposed to work with my camera and it worked with other NEC AVIO cameras that I have. Years later a chap wanted to buy the camera and I told him about the FireWire connectivity issue. He sent me an older version of the FireWire driver that he was using with the same model of camera and the Camera immediately connected to the PC and all was well with the FireWire link. The newer NEC AVIO driver was the problem but no older drivers were available to download. I sold the camera to the chap and we both got a good deal

Before I received that replacement driver I bought a CATC (now Teledyne) FireWire Protocol Analyzer to analyze the handshakes between the PC and camera. Sadly that did not help as the camera was behaving like it had a faulty FireWire interface and would not set up a link properly. All the time it was the darned PC driver that was at fault. Device Drivers eh ?