Author Topic: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC  (Read 53758 times)

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Offline frenky

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #50 on: November 01, 2016, 12:48:26 am »
With ThermalExpert is working great. Well done!  :-+
 

Offline romanv

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #51 on: December 07, 2016, 06:07:22 am »
Hi JoeC,

Thanks for making this program I really enjoy using it!

I have a question though, I feel I may be making a basic mistake.

But when I view one of my images in Flir Tools, it registers the temperature as approximately 60 degrees on a spot check.

However in Thermovision it shows up as approximately 20 degrees.

I feel there is probably a simple oversight that I am making, if someone could give me some guidance that would be great.

Here's an example of an image I am having this issue with.

Thanks

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ylvd3u8bq5yrpjl/FLIR0448.jpg?dl=0

 
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Offline joe-c

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #52 on: December 07, 2016, 09:19:12 am »
hi romanv,

sadly this seems to be a real issue.
i read the extracted raw png image file only as 8bit image, not as 16bit.
This cause tiny differences, but not so big as in your image.

thank you for share this sample, i will look at this  :-/O
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Offline romanv

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #53 on: December 07, 2016, 10:28:12 am »
Thanks Joe!

Let me know if it would be helpful to have some more sample images, and I will send them through.
 

Offline dpenev

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #54 on: December 16, 2016, 09:52:17 pm »
Hi Joe,

Very cool software you have made, thank you!
I definitely plan to spend more time with it and my i3 T.E. Q1.
For now what I have tried is working.

As a feedback. I get hang on if I try interpolation x4 and I have to kill the application.
I run windows 10
x2 can be selected.
This issue is consistent.

I will provide more feedback soon

Thanks
Dimitar   
 

Online georges80

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #55 on: December 17, 2016, 08:21:44 am »
I've noticed a discrepancy between reported Flir temperature (through the Flir app) and the Thermovision software. This from an 'enhanced' E4

The first picture is via Thermovision and shows a peak temperature in the bounding box of 40.7C. The second picture shows Flir App reporting 45.1C. Both programs are of course using the exact same Flir captured file then downloaded to the pc.

How does Thermovision determine the temperature for both spot/box? What information from the file does it use and why the discrepancy?

Panning spot around inside the box shows the same 40.7C, so it is a consistent difference in reported reading.

Interestingly the Flir 'temp bar on the right' shows 41.1C at the top (which I though was max temp). Maybe the Flir app is at fault?

thanks,
george.

« Last Edit: December 17, 2016, 08:23:32 am by georges80 »
 

Offline joe-c

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #56 on: December 17, 2016, 10:46:34 pm »
Hello,
As a feedback. I get hang on if I try interpolation x4 and I have to kill the application.
I run windows 10
x2 can be selected.
This issue is consistent.
Thank you for your info. I tried to make it with my tablet, it has win 8.1 and works with x4 Interpolation and enabled filters, but it decease the FPS dramatically. but for now I only used the Zadig driver, not the official DLL. I will hold this in mind and focus it later.
But I have seen other problems with win 8.1 I cant change the size of the internal webcam... why ever. :-//
maybe I have to play a little bit with the compatibility modes of windows.
I've noticed a discrepancy between reported Flir temperature (through the Flir app) and the Thermovision software. This from an 'enhanced' E4

The first picture is via Thermovision and shows a peak temperature in the bounding box of 40.7C. The second picture shows Flir App reporting 45.1C. Both programs are of course using the exact same Flir captured file then downloaded to the pc.

How does Thermovision determine the temperature for both spot/box? What information from the file does it use and why the discrepancy?

Panning spot around inside the box shows the same 40.7C, so it is a consistent difference in reported reading.

Interestingly the Flir 'temp bar on the right' shows 41.1C at the top (which I though was max temp). Maybe the Flir app is at fault?

thanks,
george.
No, the Flir app is not fault. The Temperature in the scale shows only the values from were to were the temperatures of the image was mapped by the color scale. this was not the min and max temperatures of the image.

and now I have fixed the temperature issue. the problem is a false acquire of the thermal image.
Current version does following:
1. let exiftool extract the thermal values (Planck, Emissivity...)
2. use the raw max and raw min to calculate the min and max of the image
3. let exiftool extract raw png file
4. read the png in 8 bit mode and map the values from min to max
but the raw png was linear to the thermal radiance, not to the temperature. because that the temperatures are false.

now i read the extracted png in 16bit mode and calculate each pixelvalue to the temperature and map from the temperature the internal ushort RawFrame (16bit linear temperature map) for processings like sharpen and interpolation.

in the next 2 weeks i release the new version, it also have new features like the "visual Relief" its similar (not same) to FLIR MSX.
the attracted image from romanv works now like expected. The Image was build from 1217 different Temperatures.
but the image from georges80 has a difference from 0.1°C now... interesting.

Wishing a nice weekend
Joe-c
FLIR E4 hardware mods 
Freeware Thermal Analysis Software: ThermoVision_Joe-C
Freeware Remote Software for some FLIR Cameras: Ex Tools
 

Online georges80

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #57 on: December 18, 2016, 06:17:53 am »
Hi Joe, thanks for looking into the temperature problem AND fixing it.

I look forward to the new release!

I wonder if the 0.1C variation is just a rounding/truncation issue - seems possible to me ??

cheers,
george.

 

Offline joe-c

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #58 on: December 19, 2016, 08:21:34 am »
I wonder if the 0.1C variation is just a rounding/truncation issue - seems possible to me ??
I found it... and no, its not a rounding thing.
The CSV extraction of FLIR Tools shows the maximum of 45.105
after read in the ThermoVision the max is 44.96954 (with "settings from file" enabled, because i have 25°C Apparent Temp and you 17°C)
then i changed with FLIR Tools the Distance from 1.0 to 0 and extract again...
now the max is 44.97 and match.

So i have to expand my calculation by distance  :-/O
FLIR E4 hardware mods 
Freeware Thermal Analysis Software: ThermoVision_Joe-C
Freeware Remote Software for some FLIR Cameras: Ex Tools
 

Online georges80

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #59 on: December 19, 2016, 08:39:05 am »
Great, thanks for your perseverance in tracking the discrepancies down.

Your software is a great replacement for the Flir tools which I find very limited in features for what they want to charge for it.

You should create a paypal button (or similar) on your development page for folk to buy you a beer or pizza or etc... :)

cheers,
george.
 

Offline joe-c

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #60 on: December 20, 2016, 07:14:51 pm »
You should create a paypal button (or similar) on your development page for folk to buy you a beer or pizza or etc... :)
Thanks,
i have a Button, in the Window->About with additional info's about external modules  8)

But much work was done from thomas123 and his posts about the temperature calculation from FLIR.
http://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/flir-e4-thermal-imaging-camera-teardown/msg342072/#msg342072
That was a great help to port this formulas in my application.
FLIR E4 hardware mods 
Freeware Thermal Analysis Software: ThermoVision_Joe-C
Freeware Remote Software for some FLIR Cameras: Ex Tools
 

Online georges80

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2016, 03:25:23 am »
^ hah - never clicked on about... (not obvious enough for me :) )

Anyhow, I've sent a bit of beer/pizza money sent your way, thanks for the work you've done!

Thomas123 doesn't have a button (I'll just have to thank him instead) - so you win :)

cheers & have a great xmas & New Years!
george.
 

Offline joe-c

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #62 on: December 30, 2016, 09:40:27 pm »
New Version 1.4.0.0 is done.

Link to FE (full extensions) 5.5MB: https://goo.gl/dqxVkH
(Include tools to read FLIR *.jpg image and official DLLs for Thermal Expert Camera Live Stream, using official driver.
Thermal Expert live stream with the Zadig driver (same way like Seek thermal) will also work in normal Version)
Link to normal 1.1MB: https://goo.gl/dcYzaU

Small changes:
- Movie Function can acquire now from 2 Sources:
 MainIR (the only way in previous version, Movie Resolution depends on Interpolation factor)
 Visual (Movie Resolution depends on Visual Resolution. In this Mode the Interpolation can be changed)
- Movie Function has now a "max Performance" Mode, this disables the most preview Controls. there is no images shown while recording, this incase the frame rate on slower PCs.
- Visual Blending in MainIR (previously called "Visual Overlay", the Settings are in "Functions->Illustration->Visual Blending")
- New Measurement: 2 Point Difference (bases on Measurement Line and it was set similar)
 Here the destination point was subtracted from the starting point (from mouse down[start] to mouse up[end])
- for Thermal Expert Q1 Images: now the Acquisition of the additional byte map can be disabled. since the new update the App stores the Temperatures no more in 4x4 format, its 1x1 now. But the additional hi res Byte map reduces the thermal difference to byte level (<255)
- Image Rotation (in degree °) implanted for the Visual Image and overlay.
- Image Flip (north/south or west/east) and Rotation (+90°,+180°,-90°) for the Visual Image.
- Some Improvements for the DIY-Thermocam V2 (coming soon)
- new strange value for Gaussian blur filter (range 0.1-0.9, the higher the blurrier)
0.1 = low gausian
0.5 = normal gausian
0.9 = similar to median

Image Fileversion 1
all stored images has a 500 byte "Dataset" in times past, containing the Positions of Spots, their Names, Settings of Boxes, Isotherm colors and some other stuff. Because this space the name for Spots was limited to 10 chars and 20 for box or line.

since this version there is a dynamic length for the dataset. So the size is lower if all is disabled, but it grow if needed. now the Names of all Measurements has up to 50 chars space. There is additional up to 3000 chars for a note, stored in the image.
And now there is one byte to store only the Version information. So a later version of the File can be handle different.
Additional there is a optical change. the min and max values are in the upper row from the preview image.
If there is no visual, the rectangle with the size is gray. but with visual its greeen.
It is possible to store in the old format, if wanted : Menu->options->(check)Use old File format (Fixed 500)
it is also possible to disable the load of the dataset. in this case all measurements stay on their place (if the resolution don't was changed)
other settings was in the options menu too (no more in Functions->Export: Images)

on load both old and new Image versions was supported. The bottom bar flashes green for a Version 1 image and yellow for a Fixed500 (Version 0) Image.
 
Visual Relief
in this function, a relief was build from the Visual image, but it was drawn on top of the Thermal image.
this way is similar (not Same) to FLIR MSX function.
This function shows the difference of pixel to his neighbors. With single difference all values goes in the same direction and result in white borders (positive strange value) or black borders (negative strange value).
see example below.

FLIR Image Acquisition
now the Image was read in 16 Bit format, that incase the Image quality. Additional the Image was no more mapped by min and max values like before. Now each raw Pixelvalue was converted to the Temperature with the given parameters. I have a back layer with the raw data to recalculate a already acquired image with changed parameters. The option "Swap Bytes" was previously for older Cameras like the FLIR E45 and is no more needed, because this was auto detected.
Now only the "exiftool.exe" was used for the image. the "convert.exe" is no more used.

FLIR stores the raw sensor data in the file, because that it's possible to change settings like distance or emissivity later. The Raw value was linear to the radiation, not to the temperature.
The Thermovision Program stores the Images as a linear temperature map. Parameters like Emissivity, Ambient temperature and Distance was only used to translate a Radiation in a temperature. Because that there is no possibility to change this later.

have a happy new Year
Joe-c
FLIR E4 hardware mods 
Freeware Thermal Analysis Software: ThermoVision_Joe-C
Freeware Remote Software for some FLIR Cameras: Ex Tools
 
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Offline dpenev

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #63 on: January 01, 2017, 05:46:24 am »
Hi Joe,

I tried to play with the latest TermoVision_JoeC 1.4.0.0

I have Thermal Expert Q1 camera and in the tab 'Device: i3 T-Expert' I can connect using Intern tab.
If I press "Start Streaming" I get what my camera sees. So far so good.

Issues I have (probably some are related with my setup Windows 10)
1. I am not able to connect to the camera using Extern tab
2. I get consistent hang if I press interpolation x4 in the Image Processing window or in Illustration tab
3. I get hang if I enable the tick for the Sharpen filter
4. After a few hangs/kill/start of the TermoVision_JoeC I am not able to connect to the camera anymore. When this happen I still see i3system USB Device in Windows Device Manager (and it appears/disappear if I plug unplug the camera) but I don't hear the typical sound Windows play on enumeration of a new USB device. The only solution I found is to restart the PC.
5. I don't see any affect (in MainIR) if I click on Median, Gauss Blur, Temperature Offset and adjusting the parameters in the whole range.
6. If I see live stream using Intern -> Stream I tried the new feature Visual Blending (moved the slider) but I don't see any effect in MainIR. In fact the only thing which reflect my MainIR is the 'corners' effect.
7. More general I find hard time understanding what some of the options are supposed to do. I understand that this is a free software so no much resources for documentation but in my opinion having a small wiki or user guide for ThermoVision_JoeC will be very useful.

I can provide Team Viewer access so you can get quickly an idea if what I am facing is due to my setup, I can not use the program properly or some other reasons.

Have a happy New Year :)
Dimitar
 

Offline joe-c

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #64 on: January 01, 2017, 07:57:18 am »
Hi Joe,

I tried to play with the latest TermoVision_JoeC 1.4.0.0
You welcome :-+
1. I am not able to connect to the camera using Extern tab
 
That's correct. there 2 Drivers, the official from i3 and the Zadig (WinUSB) driver from here:
http://zadig.akeo.ie/
if you have installed the i3 Diver, you can only use the "intern" tab.
if you have installed the WinUSB driver you can only use the "extern" tab.
On my Dev-Machine (a x64 with Win7) I can't use the i3 Driver, the device could not started. Only the WinUSB way works.
On my Notebook both ways work.
2. I get consistent hang if I press interpolation x4 in the Image Processing window or in Illustration tab
On my Main Macine no problems... but that was the extern way. After Using the Notebook the same for Extern, but after change the Driver and using the intern way i see the Problem. Interpolation x2 works but x4 crashes.
But i see too, there is a line issue on the right side. For images I fixed this (with "patch borders" option), but on Stream using the i3 DLL this is still visible. Maybe this is the source of the Issue with the x4 Interpolation.
ok, I will note this on my TODO list  :-/O
3. I get hang if I enable the tick for the Sharpen filter
I tried with "intern" connection, but have no problems. Just the refresh rate drops, but my notebook is old.
I think this will probably have to do with the previous point 2.
4. After a few hangs/kill/start of the TermoVision_JoeC I am not able to connect to the camera anymore. When this happen I still see i3system USB Device in Windows Device Manager (and it appears/disappear if I plug unplug the camera) but I don't hear the typical sound Windows play on enumeration of a new USB device. The only solution I found is to restart the PC.
i had this problem too, a few month ago, but with my FLIR E4. Not sure, but I guess some kind of background service crash...
5. I don't see any affect (in MainIR) if I click on Median, Gauss Blur, Temperature Offset and adjusting the parameters in the whole range.
Click? that sounds like you use the buttons. the Buttons on the first page ("still") are only for Images. You maybe can't see the effect because the Camera delivers a new frame and that is not processed.
For a live stream use the Second page ("life") and the checkboxes. In that case each new frame should be affected with the selected filters.
6. If I see live stream using Intern -> Stream I tried the new feature Visual Blending (moved the slider) but I don't see any effect in MainIR. In fact the only thing which reflect my MainIR is the 'corners' effect.
the Visual Blending works only if you have a Visual image. You can manually load a visual image by right click on the Visual box and choose "load vis image" but that is for still images.
But you can use the WebcamA for get a visual image, the most internal webcams should be found. Just open the "webcam A" in Devices. on each open the list of cameras found was refreshed.
Only "corners" have a effect? relief and sharpen not? that sounds not normal...
7. More general I find hard time understanding what some of the options are supposed to do. I understand that this is a free software so no much resources for documentation but in my opinion having a small wiki or user guide for ThermoVision_JoeC will be very useful.
I think similar. but I more like to enhance the functionality instead of describe the already usable. Sadly i have less knowing about making  a wiki.
But if you have a question, feel free to ask ;)
Have a happy New Year :)
Dimitar
My Kids and Wife are sleeping (she is a nurse and have to work) our new year comes in round about 2 hours.
I maybe should go outside and burn something  ::)

happy new year too
joe-c
FLIR E4 hardware mods 
Freeware Thermal Analysis Software: ThermoVision_Joe-C
Freeware Remote Software for some FLIR Cameras: Ex Tools
 

Offline dpenev

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #65 on: January 01, 2017, 08:25:40 am »
Hi Joe,

I will go over your explanations later but as a general remark.
Do you recommend using "Zadig (WinUSB) driver" with  Thermovision_JoeC and Thermal Expert Q1?
From your explanation I feel this is the case?

Cheers
Dimitar
 

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #66 on: January 01, 2017, 03:31:58 pm »
When I save an image (x1, x2), jpg, bmp the Hot and Cold spots are missing inside the measurement box.

I assume some kind of bug?

cheers,
george.
 

Offline joe-c

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #67 on: January 01, 2017, 06:41:18 pm »
Happy New Year @ all  8)
Do you recommend using "Zadig (WinUSB) driver" with  Thermovision_JoeC and Thermal Expert Q1?
From your explanation I feel this is the case?
Yes, but it's your choose what do you like more.
the i3 DLL uses the internal DeathPixelMap and delivers calibrated temperatures. but if your DeathPixelMap has too much marked Pixels, your final image drop quality and additional the DLL limit the range.
the WinUSB way delivers raw Data, and with a self created Gain/Offsetmap the image Quality is much better.
But if you calibrate the Temperatures, they will shift if the Camera warm-up.
So you have to choose yourself:
if you want measure temperature, use the "intern" way. if you want Image Quality and can live with a Temperature offset (until I found a better way), then use the "extern" way with Zadig driver.

Notes about the Gain/Offset map.
You need 2 Frames from uniform heated scenes.
Goto "Extern"->"Create new GO-Maps"
a cold frame (i use the Wall) and a hot frame (I use the inner surface of my Hand). it's better to have a higher offset, but the Hand-Wall has round about 15°C Difference... enough to see results.
after  catch both frames, the internal maps was created and the "use extern Processing" was checked.
All Pixels from both frames, have to be in a "valid range" if not, it was marked as a Defect pixel. Additional, if there is too much or less change between the frames, these pixels was marked to.
As result the Internal Gain and Offset map will incase the Image quality and marked Death Pixels was automatically filtered (selective Median).
If you Click on "Show DPM" it shows the generated DeathPixelMap for your device.

Edit: in the "Extern" Tab is a Slope and Offset Value. they will translate the processed raw to a temperature. its the "quick and dirty" way i know  >:D

it's a good reminder by the way... I have to contact i3 to ask about their process. things like the range limit with DLL, fixing the internal DPM and the line Issue was noted some month ago.
When I save an image (x1, x2), jpg, bmp the Hot and Cold spots are missing inside the measurement box.

I assume some kind of bug?
Hi, Yes... sorry. it was a tiny mistake with a internal variable, happens while work on the drawings for the new Image format.
its fixed.
I release in a few days.

joe-c
« Last Edit: January 01, 2017, 06:45:18 pm by joe-c »
FLIR E4 hardware mods 
Freeware Thermal Analysis Software: ThermoVision_Joe-C
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Offline dpenev

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #68 on: January 01, 2017, 11:08:50 pm »
Hi Joe,

I have managed to install Zadig driver and I have live stream now.
The Image appears mostly red. I tried to Create new Go map and used cold and warm surface but this seems doesn't improve my image much.
Few questions to make sure I understand your GUI:

1. Should I bother with Cal_Low/Hi_TE_Frame for now?
2. Create new Go-Map. Is this an alternative to the Slope Offset parameters?
    What distance to the cold, hot surface is recommended. Should it be uniform temperature? How do you use those frames?
3. Slope Offset. Can you explain what is this exactly? I tried to use it so get correct temperatures (for a typical scene in my room)
   and I got values: Slope 0.001, Offset 10. Are those values looks plausible to you?
4. I see sometimes the histogram is filled black, sometimes it has only contour what does this represent?
    How to make it wide? I was not able to do it whatever I do.
5. related with question 4. Whatever I do I get stream with to low temperature dynamic range even in the cases I point my camera to the hot soldering iron. I see the iron clearly but still the histogram is short. In addition the soldering tip  temperature appears  too low, so I think I messed up something with the slope/offset

Well I am not sure I have asked the best questions but more general with i3 original drivers the image is much more intuitive compared to the one I managed to get from  Zadig driver

Best Regards
Dimitar 
 

Offline joe-c

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #69 on: January 02, 2017, 08:46:51 am »
1. Should I bother with Cal_Low/Hi_TE_Frame for now?
this should be normaly a really simple thing:
1. Klick on "Create new GO-Maps"
2. point to the cold surface and hit the blue "get low frame"
3. point to the hot surface and hit the red "get hi frame"
4. now the "load" button have to be green. now make a right mouse click on the temperature scale and use "autoscale".
Now you should see a clear image
2. Create new Go-Map. Is this an alternative to the Slope Offset parameters?
    What distance to the cold, hot surface is recommended. Should it be uniform temperature? How do you use those frames?
no, the GO Map ist for the image quality, the Slope Offset are for the temperature.

practically the GO Map is the same calculation like the Slope Offset for each pixel. But i have this two ways to can fix temperature calibration more easier and without a full uniform heated surface.
3. Slope Offset. Can you explain what is this exactly? I tried to use it so get correct temperatures (for a typical scene in my room)
   and I got values: Slope 0.001, Offset 10. Are those values looks plausible to you?
this are the Values for a 2 Point Calibration, see here:
https://learn.adafruit.com/calibrating-sensors/two-point-calibration
and no, with my Camera i have something like that:
Slope: 0.056373
Offset: -365.030
4. I see sometimes the histogram is filled black, sometimes it has only contour what does this represent?
    How to make it wide? I was not able to do it whatever I do.
if the histogram shows a solid black, than you have many holes between the values.
For Example... you have a really small Thermal image with 3x3 Pixels
25,25,26,
26,27,27,
27,29,29
the Histogram will count following:
25 = 2
26 = 2
27 = 3
28 = 0
29 = 2
and the zero on 28°C will get from the curve to the base line and back to the curve for the next value.
This indicate that you have temperature steps inside your image.

To the Usage... the Histogram will be refreshed on each new frame. if you want to analyze, stop the stream.
with the left mouse you can drag the curve. with right mouse you get a standard context menu.
And with the middle mouse you can mark a field to zoom inside. With mouse wheel you can zoom too.
5. related with question 4. Whatever I do I get stream with to low temperature dynamic range even in the cases I point my camera to the hot soldering iron. I see the iron clearly but still the histogram is short.
it sounds normal for the i3 Driver (intern), not for the WinUSB Driver "Extern".
Have you seen this while using the "Extern" Streaming?
In addition the soldering tip  temperature appears  too low, so I think I messed up something with the slope/offset
sounds truth.
... with i3 original drivers the image is much more intuitive compared to the one I managed to get from  Zadig driver
the "Intern" image from the DLL seems to be enhanced with auto gain. this cause more holes and a "black" histogram, but the image looks better. And you don't have to work with thinks like calibration.
FLIR E4 hardware mods 
Freeware Thermal Analysis Software: ThermoVision_Joe-C
Freeware Remote Software for some FLIR Cameras: Ex Tools
 

Offline dpenev

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #70 on: January 02, 2017, 09:41:54 pm »
Hi Joe,

First of all thank you for the explanation!

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Quote from: dpenev on Yesterday at 11:08:50 PM
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1. Should I bother with Cal_Low/Hi_TE_Frame for now?
this should be normaly a really simple thing:
1. Klick on "Create new GO-Maps"
2. point to the cold surface and hit the blue "get low frame"
3. point to the hot surface and hit the red "get hi frame"
4. now the "load" button have to be green. now make a right mouse click on the temperature scale and use "autoscale".
Now you should see a clear image
My Load button is not green after GO-Maps procedure, see the Zadig picture.
Can this be related to my low color dynamic range issue?

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Quote from: dpenev on Yesterday at 11:08:50 PM
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2. Create new Go-Map. Is this an alternative to the Slope Offset parameters?
    What distance to the cold, hot surface is recommended. Should it be uniform temperature? How do you use those frames?
no, the GO Map ist for the image quality, the Slope Offset are for the temperature.

practically the GO Map is the same calculation like the Slope Offset for each pixel. But i have this two ways to can fix temperature calibration more easier and without a full uniform heated surface.
So to set Slope and Offset parameters I have to use cold and hot object.
Is the following procedure looks reasonable
1. You should know the temperature of the cold Tc and hot object Th
2. Calculate the difference Th-Tc
3. Adjust the Slope so the temperature difference shown by the ThermoVision_JoeC is close to Th-Tc
4. Adjust Offset parameter so ThermoVision_JoeC measures close to Tc for the cold object.

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Quote from: dpenev on Yesterday at 11:08:50 PM
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3. Slope Offset. Can you explain what is this exactly? I tried to use it so get correct temperatures (for a typical scene in my room)
   and I got values: Slope 0.001, Offset 10. Are those values looks plausible to you?
this are the Values for a 2 Point Calibration, see here:
https://learn.adafruit.com/calibrating-sensors/two-point-calibration
and no, with my Camera i have something like that:
Slope: 0.056373
Offset: -365.030
An idea: I believe that i3system sensors have a similar properties.
Slope and Offset probably can get a good initial values in ThermoVision_JoeC?
Sorry if this is already like that.   

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Quote from: dpenev on Yesterday at 11:08:50 PM
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4. I see sometimes the histogram is filled black, sometimes it has only contour what does this represent?
    How to make it wide? I was not able to do it whatever I do.
if the histogram shows a solid black, than you have many holes between the values.
For Example... you have a really small Thermal image with 3x3 Pixels
25,25,26,
26,27,27,
27,29,29
the Histogram will count following:
25 = 2
26 = 2
27 = 3
28 = 0
29 = 2
and the zero on 28°C will get from the curve to the base line and back to the curve for the next value.
This indicate that you have temperature steps inside your image.

To the Usage... the Histogram will be refreshed on each new frame. if you want to analyze, stop the stream.
with the left mouse you can drag the curve. with right mouse you get a standard context menu.
And with the middle mouse you can mark a field to zoom inside. With mouse wheel you can zoom too.
If I understood what you are describing is the typically way the histogram is represented - 'stem' kind of plot.
For the stem plot I would expect almost all histograms being black (as the temperature should be mostly spatially continuous, so no holes) 
However this doesn't explain for example the histogram I have on the zadig.png.
So I guess you are not doing a typical stem plot?   

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Quote from: dpenev on Yesterday at 11:08:50 PM
Quote
5. related with question 4. Whatever I do I get stream with to low temperature dynamic range even in the cases I point my camera to the hot soldering iron. I see the iron clearly but still the histogram is short.
it sounds normal for the i3 Driver (intern), not for the WinUSB Driver "Extern".
Have you seen this while using the "Extern" Streaming?
Please see the two images I have captured using i3systems USB and zadig

Quote
Quote from: dpenev on Yesterday at 11:08:50 PM
Quote
... with i3 original drivers the image is much more intuitive compared to the one I managed to get from  Zadig driver
the "Intern" image from the DLL seems to be enhanced with auto gain. this cause more holes and a "black" histogram, but the image looks better. And you don't have to work with thinks like calibration.
I am not against doing calibration or manual things. I just can not get from zadig the image quality what I get with i3systems USB driver.
I think I have some issue with GO-Maps which doesn't work in my case.
What temperature difference between wall and hand references do you recommend.
Should those objects be close to the camera, I guess they need to cover the full view?
Should those objects have uniform surface temperature?     

Thank you once again for your efforts developing the program and helping!

Best Regards
Dimitar   

P.S. Now I've noticed that on my root folder I have files Cal_Hi_Frame.dat and Cal_Lo_Frame.dat,
not Cal_Hi_TE_Frame.dat and Cal_Lo_TE_Frame.dat.
 

Offline joe-c

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #71 on: January 03, 2017, 10:05:00 am »
My Load button is not green after GO-Maps procedure, see the Zadig picture.
Can this be related to my low color dynamic range issue?
...
I think I have some issue with GO-Maps which doesn't work in my case.
...
P.S. Now I've noticed that on my root folder I have files Cal_Hi_Frame.dat and Cal_Lo_Frame.dat,
not Cal_Hi_TE_Frame.dat and Cal_Lo_TE_Frame.dat.
that sounds not normal...
this could be a issue with the write access.
If you start the GO-Map calibration, the actual image was stored as 16 bit raw frame.
So after the process, you should have 2 new files, containing the low and high frame values.
this files was read and used to create the GO Map. Please tell me more about your environment...
what's the startup path of your thermovision folder?
Did you try it to run as Administrator?
Have you maybe some kind of virtual Sandbox  (security) system?
If I understood what you are describing is the typically way the histogram is represented - 'stem' kind of plot.
For the stem plot I would expect almost all histograms being black (as the temperature should be mostly spatially continuous, so no holes) 
However this doesn't explain for example the histogram I have on the zadig.png.
So I guess you are not doing a typical stem plot?   
The histogram has 2 Settings... 0.1° Step and 1°C Step.
on 0.1°C Step each Pixel Temp was rounded to 1 digit and counted in a linear list.
the final Histogram is just the linear count of the list.
As I told before, the i3 DLL sadly has a "stepped" value output, so your "i3systemUSB.png" shows an expected  result, with the zero values between the temperatures and the lines under the curve.
if you hold the stream and use a digital filter like sharpen or Gaussian, this lines should be disappear, because the internal Math is not stepped. I suggest to use Gaussian checkbox from "Live" Tab on setting 0.1
What temperature difference between wall and hand references do you recommend.
Should those objects be close to the camera, I guess they need to cover the full view?
Should those objects have uniform surface temperature?     
for me, round about 13°C Difference work. The Distance is not really important, just the whole screen have to be affected from the uniform heated surface.

regarding the "zadig.png"... it looks like the Raw output... no wonder if the Mapcal fails and the Button is not green but red.
the highest calculated temperature and the lowest calculated temperature was automatically set for scale.
if you have a non calibrated pixel, this single pixel incase the maximal/minimal temperature and that cause a to high scale.
in that case, you should disable the Autorange, and set the range yourself. you can scroll the level with mouse down on the Scale and with mouse wheel you can adjust the span. the Histogram is a good way get the best settings for your scale... see image.

PS: if you need screenshots, just double click on screen on the bottom left corner. ;)

Additional Note about the Offset Slope Values... if the GO Mapcal works, you can use the Calibration function in Window-> Calibration.
The Calibration window is at startup on right side with auto hide. if you click on it, you can enable the "2 Point Calibration".
this shows a yellow box which you can move an resize. the box should be inside a uniform surface and you have to know this temperature and enter it...everything outside the box don't care. The Box shows a averaged raw value and a pixelcount.
2. Click on the blue "Set Low Reference"  button
3. Move the box (or Camera) to a high uniform surface and enter the known temperature for this
4. Click on the red "Set Hi Reference" button.
Now the calibrated offset and slope values can be read below.
just copy the values to the left side in "Extern" Tab and you have calibrated values... until the camera heat up or cool down and this values starts moving.

joe-c
FLIR E4 hardware mods 
Freeware Thermal Analysis Software: ThermoVision_Joe-C
Freeware Remote Software for some FLIR Cameras: Ex Tools
 

Offline dpenev

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #72 on: January 03, 2017, 08:52:16 pm »
Hi Joe,

Thank you for the help.
The picture start to clarify a bit. :)

I have moved ThermoVision_JoeC_V1.4.0.0RelFE on my C:\ and after the Create GO Maps Load greens if it pressed.
Previously I had the program extracted at "C:\projects\Thermal Expert\ThermoVision_JoeC_V1.4.0.0RelFE" probably
it doesn't tolerate spaces in the path name?

I have managed to do "To point Calibration" and I started getting better temperature.

My main problem however seems to be related  with the camera dead pixels. I guess 'Extern' mode doesn't deal
with the dead pixels?
On my images I have one relatively big dead zone which represents on my current images as 12degC. My scene is at 27DegC with variance 7degC. In this case the histogram auto scale process makes all my usefully image shifted and compressed in the hot end, histogram become short. The Median filter removes/mitigates the outlayer (I am referring to one big dead pixel group I have) and I have much better image now (thought still not as good as with the i2system driver, but probably this is a Median filter effect)

I am attaching my dead pixels image for a comments.Are those amount of dead pixels normal?

A feedback: I tried to play with the manual temperature range. Shifted the colormap with the mouse up and down and have used mouse whe?l to adjust the span. However this was not reflected on my histogram. Whatever I did start/stop stream, start/stop autorange from the Device i3 T-Expert and autoscale from the context menu of the colormap, Refresh on the top of histogram ... my histogram was not reflecting my change.  Am I missing something?       

Thank you,
Diimitar
 
 

Offline joe-c

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #73 on: January 04, 2017, 03:51:33 am »
I have moved ThermoVision_JoeC_V1.4.0.0RelFE on my C:\ and after the Create GO Maps Load greens if it pressed.
Previously I had the program extracted at "C:\projects\Thermal Expert\ThermoVision_JoeC_V1.4.0.0RelFE" probably
it doesn't tolerate spaces in the path name?
interesting, that should normally not a problem.
I tried this path with 2 spaces: C:\Temp\ThermoVision JoeC V1.4.0.0Rel\TVision_V1.4.0.0
on my x64 Win7 Machine without problems while create the maps.
have you additional start as Administrator or did you something except the move of the folder?
My main problem however seems to be related  with the camera dead pixels. I guess 'Extern' mode doesn't deal
with the dead pixels?
On my images I have one relatively big dead zone which represents on my current images as 12degC. My scene is at 27DegC with variance 7degC. In this case the histogram auto scale process makes all my usefully image shifted and compressed in the hot end, histogram become short. The Median filter removes/mitigates the outlayer (I am referring to one big dead pixel group I have) and I have much better image now (thought still not as good as with the i2system driver, but probably this is a Median filter effect)
my death pixel remove function replaces the death pixels with the value of up to 8 neighbor pixels. if you have so many defect pixels, hat the neighbors are too far, it was not fixed.
I should improve this... it's the kernel from the Seek thermal class... so far I had no camera with this problem and big Death spot on one place.
I am attaching my dead pixels image for a comments. Are those amount of dead pixels normal?
this is the second Thermal Expert map I ever seen... I don't know ;)
but I guess it's good... you have more than 98% good pixels.
... However this was not reflected on my histogram.
... my histogram was not reflecting my change.  Am I missing something?       
yes.
the histogram shows the full frame. the level and span are for the color scale to let you see a part of the whole temperature range of your image.
But next to the "refresh" button is a "Setup" Button. This open a new sub window with some settings like line thickness, line color...and maybe what you searching... the Area.
the default setting is "everything" for the whole image... but you can change to "only area", then the limit of the color scale is the limit for the histogram too. This should show you the Histogram of your image part.

Joe-c
FLIR E4 hardware mods 
Freeware Thermal Analysis Software: ThermoVision_Joe-C
Freeware Remote Software for some FLIR Cameras: Ex Tools
 

Offline dpenev

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Re: Freeware Software for Thermal Analysis: Thermovision_JoeC
« Reply #74 on: January 04, 2017, 08:39:48 pm »
Hi Joe,

Each time I start the application as a regular user.
I am under Windows 10, 64 bit. 
Anyways it is good that in my C:\ThermoVision_JoeC_V1.4.0.0RelFE the program works much better.

As for the histogram. Up to now I have thought that if I adjust the range manually I sent a
commands to the camera and camera adjusts its temperature range.
Based on your explanation about "everything", "only area" it seems it is not the case.
Can you please shed some light on this? 

Despite my efforts to use Zadig as a open driver the images I get are not as good as what I get immediately by i3Systems USB driver.
Does i3Systems USB driver deals with the dead pixels itself?
I don't see my big bad pixel with the i3Systems USB.     
After you improve the dead pixel compensation I will give Zadig a try again,
but before that I jump back to i3Systems USB.

I have played some more with the program and i2Systems USB.
Now all get more sense.
From the things I have tried I was not able to understand/make it working:
- Deleting of the MinMAx measurement
- Time Plotter, what it is about?
- Interpolation x4 -> crash
- Illustration->Sharpen ->crash
 
I will play with visual blending using my web camera as a visual camera later.
Can you explain how well I have to align the view of the thermo and visual camera? 

Thank you Joe for the great software you have done! :)
Dimitar

     
 


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