Higher frame rate for Lepton?

[Fraser]

Please do not consider me an authority on the Lepton or any thermal camera really. I have just used and repaired a lot of thermal cameras, so learned about them along the way.  I have also been given some very helpful insights into the designs, and technology used, from friends within the thermal camera manufacturing industry. When able, I share some of that knowledge here.

Fraser

[-jeffB]

It is just like working with dangerous voltages.  More power to you if you realize what you are getting into.

I agree, but I might have chosen different phrasing. 

[david_geng]

why not take off the asic and fly wire for reverse engineering the signals and then make a circuit to do what ever you like. just a thought. 

[Fraser]

It would be simpler to buy a microbolometer from ULIS and build your own camera that way

[David1234]

I have overclocked the Lepton 2, 2.5 and 3 to get slightly faster frame rates. The issue isn't the frame rate for me though. My issue is that they actually have a significant delay programmed in to them. In other words, not only are these cameras 9Hz, the frames are delayed about a half second or more.

[mikeselectricstuff]

I have overclocked the Lepton 2, 2.5 and 3 to get slightly faster frame rates. The issue isn't the frame rate for me though. My issue is that they actually have a significant delay programmed in to them. In other words, not only are these cameras 9Hz, the frames are delayed about a half second or more.

That delay is probably the signal processing rather than any intentional crippling. AFAIK export controls make no mention of latency so there is no reason to intentionally increase lag. Also any delay needs memory to store images, so it adds cost. It is possible there is some configuration to set the tradeoff between power consumption and processing speed.

[David1234]

I have overclocked the Lepton 2, 2.5 and 3 to get slightly faster frame rates. The issue isn't the frame rate for me though. My issue is that they actually have a significant delay programmed in to them. In other words, not only are these cameras 9Hz, the frames are delayed about a half second or more.

That delay is probably the signal processing rather than any intentional crippling. AFAIK export controls make no mention of latency so there is no reason to intentionally increase lag. Also any delay needs memory to store images, so it adds cost. It is possible there is some configuration to set the tradeoff between power consumption and processing speed.

There shouldn't be any delay on my end. I process the signal with an FPGA and display valid pixels immediately when they are marked valid by the lepton. I'm also giving it a 150% clock rate. The only way to really verify your theory is to play with their 30Hz version, if they even exist, and compare the lag. I can't find them for sale anywhere though...

[mikeselectricstuff]

I have overclocked the Lepton 2, 2.5 and 3 to get slightly faster frame rates. The issue isn't the frame rate for me though. My issue is that they actually have a significant delay programmed in to them. In other words, not only are these cameras 9Hz, the frames are delayed about a half second or more.

That delay is probably the signal processing rather than any intentional crippling. AFAIK export controls make no mention of latency so there is no reason to intentionally increase lag. Also any delay needs memory to store images, so it adds cost. It is possible there is some configuration to set the tradeoff between power consumption and processing speed.

There shouldn't be any delay on my end. I process the signal with an FPGA and display valid pixels immediately when they are marked valid by the lepton. I'm also giving it a 150% clock rate. The only way to really verify your theory is to play with their 30Hz version, if they even exist, and compare the lag. I can't find them for sale anywhere though...

Lepton will be doing significant processing internally to make the data look pretty - that's where the lag will be coming from.
30fps Leptons do exist, but aren't available for general sale.

[frozenfrogz]

http://www.flir.com/cvs/cores/knowledgebase/index.cfm?view=35781

Is an export license required for Tau2, Quark2 thermal imaging cameras?

Yes, except if the video frame rate is factory set to be less than 9 frames per second (fps). For FLIR OEM cameras that would otherwise have a 30 fps rate, the reduced frame rate is achieved by replicating one frame four times for NTSC (30 divided by 4 = 7.5 fps) or three times for PAL (25 divided by 3 = 8.33 fps). FLIR refers to this configuration as "slow video". Note that slow video frames are not averaged, rather, each frame is simply replicated either three or four times in succession, depending on whether the camera is set for PAL or NTSC.

You can easily buy 30fps thermal cameras within the EU.

https://www.infraredcamerasinc.com/thermal-infrared-resources/shipping-export-restrictions/

[David1234]

Lepton will be doing significant processing internally to make the data look pretty - that's where the lag will be coming from.
30fps Leptons do exist, but aren't available for general sale.

Do you know where can I buy them from and what steps I need to take to be eligible to buy them? I'm willing to do a decent amount of work to be eligible to buy them. I don't want to buy them in bulk though, just to realize they still have that lag.

-David

[Fraser]

The only way to obtain such a core is to contact FLIR direct.

You will need a business proposition and commitment to purchase in large quantities. Less than 100 pieces and I doubt they will even want to discuss the matter.

FLIR were quite reserved when it came to supplying even the Lepton2 core. The Group Get team managed to persuade FLIR to sell to them in batches of 100 cores. As a large manufacturing company, FLIR are not really into individual Lepton core sales. Samples are not normally given away unless attached to a very large order.
They tend to sell via either Group Gets or the large electronic component trade suppliers like Digi-Key.

I doubt you will be able to get your hands on a Lepton 3 30fps core. Sorry it is not better news.

Fraser

[frozenfrogz]

You can order them via Digikey or am I mistaken?

Edit: Sorry, I saw it is only 9Hz after posting :/

[mikeselectricstuff]

The 30fps core has been a round a while - I imagine there must be some products using it - anyone know any ?
( though probably too expensive to harvest modules from)

[Fraser]

Here.....

http://tplogic.com/thermal-solutions/t12/

http://tplogic.com/thermal-solutions/thermal-imager-t12-c/

Torrey Pines Logic can provide rifle sights using a Lepton running at 30fps.

Fraser

[Fraser]

Interestingly, the 'K2' budget Fire Fighting thermal camera that uses a Lepton3 core is the 9fps version.Fire Fighting cameras tend to be the higher frame rate of either 30fps or 60fps due to the need fro fast movement.

http://www.flir.com/fire/k2/

I would have expected FLIR to offer a 30fps version of the K2 for domestic markets and licenced export. The K45 and above are 60fps Fire Fighting cameras.

http://www.flir.com/fire/display/?id=60239


Torrey Pines Logic make a Fire Fighting version of their Lepton based rifle sight but no frame rate is stated in the brochure.

http://tplogic.com/thermal-solutions/firefighting/

http://tplogic.com/V2/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/T12_F.pdf

Fraser

[Fraser]

The TPL T12 30fps model costs £759 in the UK !

https://www.scottcountry.co.uk/thermal-imaging/hand-held/torrey-pines-t12-w-30hz-mini/

Fraser

[Uho]

I did an upgrade T10-M . He has 30 Hz on the lepton base. It's just a toy. On such a base it is very difficult to make a good thermal imager.
https://youtu.be/gUOvAg0dGxY

[Vipitis]

Hey Boris,

I have been following your work for a little and I would really love to build something myself.

I got a cat S60 phone which has the Lepton 2 and basically acts like an old flir one.

Parts of your scope appear to be 3D printed, would you mind sharing your designs? In terms of parts used(lenses) and measurements for distances etc?

[Uho]

Hey Boris,

I have been following your work for a little and I would really love to build something myself.

I got a cat S60 phone which has the Lepton 2 and basically acts like an old flir one.

Parts of your scope appear to be 3D printed, would you mind sharing your designs? In terms of parts used(lenses) and measurements for distances etc?

Unfortunately I do not have works for cat S60 phone. Only a macro lens can be made to it. Any telephoto lens requires accurate alignment. It is technically very difficult to make it for cat S60.