Keysight U5855A TrueIR thermal imager

[HighVoltage]

At these prices they should be flying out the door.
Fraser

Well, at least one more was left, I made an offer and it was accepted, no case no accessories, no charger.
I will order a new battery from the German distributor for EUR 94,12 + MwSt  = Euro 112 total
http://www.datatec.de/Keysight-U5752A-Akku-U5855A.htm

Thank you TheSteve for pointing out this great deal on the Keysight store.

[Fraser]

Once I have my camera I will look into the battery situation.

The battery appears to be of standard format and as the latching lugs are not used I suspect another standard battery may be adapted to work. I have a battery tab welder so could extend the contact surfaces on to the end surface using nickel strips. These could be glued to the case and taped with Polyimide tape.  Such a solution would also permit the use of the modified batteries normal external charger rather than buying the Keysight external charger.

A 3D printed battery case is an option but then there is the cost of decent cells and a protection circuit. That plus the time to build might make such less desirable when an OEM battery is $120.

As a side note..... I needed a relatively simple battery holder for one of my NEC AVIO F30 cameras. It holds three AA cells and contains no electronics. It is just a battery holder, not a complete battery. The price from NEV AVIO ?
£90 plus a hefty delivery fee using UPS or FEDEX from Japan. Oh and the minimum order restriction meant that I could not order just one holder !

Suddenly the Keysight battery does not look so expensive

I found the Keysight battery for £79 + 20% VAT but including free postage, from a supplier in the UK...... Farnell.

Fraser

[nfmax]

Thanks for the tip guys! I'd been looking at these for a while before the recent price drop, but it's good to get Fraser's seal of approval . Just accepted the counter-offer of $500 +VAT including delivery for the un-broken battery-less one.

[Fraser]

OK, for those who might wish to consider the DIY battery route, I have dug out my collection of Li-Ion batteries that I have for my other NEC AVIO Cameras.

Surprise Surprise, the battery is the same dimensions as that used in the Keysight camera. The contacts are different though. The main power contacts are presented as tubes that take a spike contact in the camera. The S and T contacts are presented as much smaller tubes that take smaller spike contacts in the charger unit. I see these as eminently modifiable 


Pictures follow. I have different brands including an original NEC batery, JVC and 3rd party batteries from various sources. The caliper dimensions are the MAXIMUM I could find on the battery case as some have slightly proud joint points. Such could easily be reduced with sand paper if needed.

Enjoy 

Fraser

[Fraser]

Three shorter versions for JVC camcorders

[Fraser]

Contacts on the NEC / JVC batteries

[Fraser]

Battery dimension checks with caliper.

[HighVoltage]

Wow, Fraser, you have lots of batteries.

I ordered the original one today and got a small discount.

[Fraser]

Continued

[Fraser]

Shorter battery dimensions

[HighVoltage]

@TheSteve
Does the charger have a normal connector?
Can I use a generic 12V 3A charger or will I be surprised by some strange connection?

[Fraser]

@High Voltage,

I have a lot of NEC AVIO cameras and Intelligent remote control/displays that all use this model of battery 

I also have the high capacity JVC belt pack Li-Ion batteries that provide the required 7.2V for long duration usage 

I bought a box of ten of those high capacity sets as a bulk lot so have around 15 external battery chargers in all 

Fraser

[TheSteve]

The charger uses a standard 2.1mm 2.5mm center positive jack.

[wraper]

The price on these has now dropped to $454 !

(It has a broken strap mount)

How low will these cameras go I wonder ?

At these prices they should be flying out the door.

Fraser

If you need to measure high temperatures, they are a good deal. But if you need it for something like looking on the PCB, then not.  Pictures taken are rubbish compared with cheap i3system TE – Q1. That upscaled 320x240 resolution looks more like a marketing gimmick.

[Fraser]

Wrapper,

Not up-scaling, multi image layering, very different. You have your opinion, but to call the images produced rubbish appears myopic

The mobile phone dongles produce pretty good images but they are, and always will be, a cludge of a camera bolted on to a mobile phone. Remember the money you pay just buys a camera front end, no processing or display etc. Many users want the complete self contained solution. For such a need this camera is excellent value for money.

It is also worth remembering that thermography is not always about how 'pretty' the image looks after much processing, it is also about the quality of the radiometric measurements. The two are not always bedfellows !

It is true that an A-Si sensor image can contain more column noise. That does not make it a poor sensor however.

Fraser

[TheSteve]

I've had more time to play with the camera now and it does compensate for the parallax distortion when doing a video overlay. The trick is you do need to have the IR camera perfectly focused for it to operate well - I guess this isn't really a surprise.

For those who have bought one of the cameras sold so far none of them have had the newest firmware loaded. So once you test the camera out I recommend performing the update to version 1.30  - it is quick and easy. It is also needed if you want to stream video to a PC.

[Fraser]

@"TheSteve"

Interesting. I shall load the latest firmware as, from the version notes, it seems well worth doing. I have already downloaed all firmware and software versions from the support site.

With regard to IR focusing....absolutely. A poorly focused image can also cause temperature measurement errors. A manual focus camera lens normally produces far crisper images than a fixed focus lens that is providing a usable image from 30cm to infinity.

It is also worth noting that a ZnSe close up lens may also be used on a manual focus lens to improve its close up capability. With ZnSe lenses available with 25mm and 50mm FL, you can get in really close to components if needed.I shall be obtaining some 20mm diameter 25mm FL lenses to experiment with. I already have some 15mm FL Germanium lenses to try out some time.

Fraser

[Kilrah]

Welp, my pretty ridiculously low offer for the one with nothing and the broken strap clip was accepted after a little back-and-forth. Will be interesting to play with that and see how a "professional" camera with image blending and the lot fairs against my phone-based TE Q1.
Will see if I just use the DC in jack or if I feel motivated to try and find a battery that fits, or even design and print a case for what I imagine are 2 18650s.

There has to be a digital camera battery that fits as a direct replacement...

My feeling is that the image quality wil be a litle less good than the Q1, but the usability and temp accuracy will be way higher. TE have made some updates to the app lately but it's still quite kludgy.

[Fraser]

Some trivia on 'Super Resolution' for those interested.

The idea is actually nothing new and dates back to at least the 1970's. It is a legitimate method of increasing the effective resolution of a cameras sensor array.

In early thermal detector arrays there was a need to increase the effective resolution beyond the physical pixel count. In that period, it was common to use scanning type cameras with either one or two scan axis and one or many detector elements, depending upon the design.

In a single axis scanning camera, the thermal scene may be presented to a linear array of detector pixels. If the array consists of only 50 pixels elements, the vertical height of the image produced will be 50 pixels. Now if the detector array is moved vertically such that each pixel fills the gap between the previous scan lines you effectively achieve a 100 pixel height image after two complete scans. The movement of the detector array requires a precision mechanism operating at high speeds. IIRC Piezo Electric drives were used.

Now move forward to the present day and we have cameras stating that they have 160 x 120 pixels yet with a software feature they can produce 320 x 240 pixels. Interpolation is usually the first assumption by many. Whilst a legitimate way to upscale an image, it adds no real new scene data. As such it is flawed in terms of radiometric resolution. Vibrating the FPA sensor at high speed in X and Y planes is a mechanical way to increase the radiometric resolution as the image is effectively scanned to the blind area between pixels. Such a system is complex and expensive though.

It was realised that hand held thermal cameras already had a source of vertical and horizontal scanning..... namely normal human hand shake ! If you imagine the camera capturing a series of images to memory as you hold it in your hand and pointing at a thermal scene, the camera will move slightly between image captures and so when overlayed one on top of the other, there will be image registration errors.The image registration errors are used by the software to effectively generate a higher resolution image that contains real radiometric data samples from the pixels, rather than interpolation.

I have way over simplified the way the software handles the data but this is not just simple image layering as that would likely cause poor image sharpness and blurring. If you mount the camera on a tripod so that it cannot move, the resolution enhancement algorithms have little to work with in terms of camera movement and resultant registration errors in the captured image group. The registration errors are essential to the correct operation of the process.

Before people shout that at 9fps such stacking will severely reduce real time image update rate...... no one said the process needs to operate at the cameras display update rate of <9fps. A microbolometer can be run at 30fps or higher and the images used for Super Resolution can be grabbed out of that high frame rate data stream before the <9fps limitation is imposed on the displayed data.  In such a case, the user would notice little or no reduction in frame rate when using the Super Resolution mode. Any decrease would be due to a lack of image processing power in the cameras computer.

So I hope this helps explain Super Resolution to those who were unaware of how it functions. Interpolation it is not 

Is it a gimmick ? Well those who used it in the early days of thermal imaging when sensor arrays were seriously low resolution, did not think so. It was a vital and effective means to increase the true pixel data content in an image. Interpolation just 'guesses' the value of a non-existent pixel between others. Good for pretty images, bad for collecting real thermal scene data where every pixel is providing data that is being analysed by the user.

Fraser

[Fraser]

@Kilrah,

Glad you got a good deal.

Please be aware that these cameras are not what I would class as 'Professional'. They are more like 'entry level' or for Semi-Pro user such as electricians or plumbers. That is because they are using a 160 x 120 pixel microbolometer that needs software to increase its effective resolution.'Professional' Industrial cameras tend to be 320 x 240 pixel resolution or higher and employ very high quality microbolometerand optical blocks. They are very robustly constructed and maintain their accuracy or a very long service life without the need for re-calibration.

You get what you pay for with thermal imaging cameras. Entry level units like the FLIR Ex series and these Keysight cameras are more than good enough for many users, but likely not what a serious Thermographer would choose to earn their living.

Other professional cameras are those found in laboratories that cost an arm and a leg, and those used in Fire Fighting. Both are very different to this camera and for good reason 

Why do i think this camera is good value ?

1. It is a complete solution containing all elements needed to display and store meaningful radiometric images
2. The camera has manual focus with a close focus range of only 100mm
3. The camera contains a quality 160 x 120 pixel microbolometer - good for many tasks.
4. 'Fine Resolution' mode is provided free of charge
5. There is a composite video output for live monitoring on a large display or to drive a video transmitter
6. The camera is capable of video streaming from the USB port
7. The image analysis software is comprehensive in its content and is free ! No silly upgrade fee like FLIR Tools+
8. Using the supplied software, thermal scene profiling is possible with ease.
9. The camera contains both IR and visible light cameras and has a white light illuminator for dark areas
10. It costs only $525 (£437) and requires no hacking. Yes you need to buy/make a battery, but it is still very cheap indeed.

So all of the above tell me that this camera, on offer from Keysight, will make a very worthy addition to many techie tool kits. It s versatile and let no one tell you 160 x 120 pixels is not enough to do some pretty serious thermography at home ! Early cameras I use were only 128 x 128 pixels and I still managed to do my job well. The 'Fine Resolution' mode is a significant bonus, but even without such, you will be hard pressed to find a complete camera solution of this quality and spec for $525.

I wonder how many Keysight have to sell.I know from speaking to them that each camera has been individually inspected and has a file on their computer stating its condition etc. A grand clear-out of demo units maybe ? Some have obviously been used, but lightly, whilst others look new.

Fraser

[wraper]

So I hope this helps explain Super Resolution to those who were unaware of how it functions. Interpolation it is not 

Regardless of the way how it functions, posted thermal images don't show anything particularly good about it. Actually they don't look that much better than those made by my Flir i7 with 140x140 resulution.

[Fraser]

You are looking at images taken by new owners who have yet to fully explore the cameras capabilities. I am not certain whether the 'Fine resolution' mode was active in the provided pictures and 'TheSteve' has already explained that his focus setting was not optimal for the images.

When mine arrives I will be happy to put it through its paces and get the best images that I can from it.

The new owners will soon find their feet with the camera and be able to tune the span and levels for best image quality.
I do not think those who posted claimed that they were producing the best images possible with the camera. Let us wait and see 

With regard to the newer i7, that is actually a higher resolution camera than the Keysight in terms of physical pixels 140 x 140 is higher resolution than 160 x 120. But that is just me splitting hairs  A 160 x 120 pixel camera will never 'blow your socks off' but it can still produce perfectly decent thermal images.

When it comes down to it, as i have stated, $525 for a complete camera is darned cheap, even for 160 x 120 pixels !  The E4 is still my recommended ; bargain' complete camera solution as it can be upgraded to its full 320 x 240 resolution plus additional menus. However, the Keysight camera has the advantage of price, analytical software, SD card memory, Video output, USB streaming and manual focus to 10cm.

As you have stated, some of the Dongle type cameras produce very pretty images. No doubt about that. Are they perfect ? Nope. Are they convenient  and ergonomic ? Not in my opinion but users have differing needs. The dongles are just a part of a thermal imaging solution. The other part is the powerful smart phone that does the hard work of turning the raw image data from the dongle into pretty pictures. Such phones can be very expensive.

IMHO, there will be at least three Camps when it comes to thermal camera solutions

1. The complete 'all in one' solution - pick up and use, no apps or phones to mess around with
2. The Phone Dongle solution that is 'diminutive' and for some convenient to attach to their powerful smart phone (watch out for incoming calls though)
3. The complete camera and dongle solution - to suit differing situations.

I fall into the last group. I use all types of thermal camera from Pro Industrial, right down to the FLIR ONE G2. They all have their place in terms of usefulness. I will not 'knock' any solution as it is very much a preference thing fro users of the technology. If someone is in Camp 1 however, I would not be suggesting that they buy a phone dongle solution 

Fraser

[TheSteve]

End of the day it is still a 160x120 sensor so the image was never going to knock anyone's socks off. I am very pleased so far though for my needs. I really wanted a standalone device that didn't need a phone to operate. It easily displays hot spots on PCB's, finds areas with poor insulation in my house and can locate my cat in the backyard in total darkness when he tries to be sneaky.

[mrrrwhat]

Can it be power on by power supply without battery?

[TheSteve]

Can it be power on by power supply without battery?

Yes it can.