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Author Topic: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!  (Read 12011 times)

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Offline exoticelectron

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #75 on: May 11, 2017, 01:15:30 PM »
First tests of Rev 6!

There are some minor changes I would like to make but overall the major functions, are working as expected!

The video shows both the super-high sensitivity mode detecting a thumb print on cardboard, then switching to the high temperature range to scan a soldering iron!

The code is written in C and is very simple, using a state machine with three states and interrupt driven tone generation and delay timing.

Memory space is as follows:

Memory Summary:
    Program space        used   1F9h (   505) of   400h words   ( 49.3%)
    Data space           used    26h (    38) of    40h bytes   ( 59.4%)

No floating point is used which saved a TON of memory space.

So now everything is under microcontroller control..the temperature data, tone, and LED can all be manipulated at will for who knows what features and goodies! Custom code can be uploaded using an ICD2 and MPLAB, or equivalent..I brought out the ICSP interface to the on-board 6 pin header, along with a small RJ45 adapter that will be included as an option.

Now I just need to make an .STL housing and it should be ready for relaunch soon.




« Last Edit: May 11, 2017, 01:36:42 PM by exoticelectron »
 

Offline frozenfrogz

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #76 on: May 11, 2017, 05:31:11 PM »
Nice to see the progress  :-+

I wrote you a pm regarding the encasement design - don’t know if you’ve seen it.
Also I was thinking: To get back on the request for a version for the hearing impaired. Maybe an adapted version with a small vibration motor could be easily done. Miniature vibrtion motors are available in a lot of different variations and there are some that can run of 0.3V to 3V and a couple of mA. Battery life will most likely be less than with the speaker however.
He’s like a trained ape. Without the training.
 

Offline exoticelectron

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #77 on: May 12, 2017, 01:30:16 AM »
Nice to see the progress  :-+

I wrote you a pm regarding the encasement design - don’t know if you’ve seen it.
Also I was thinking: To get back on the request for a version for the hearing impaired. Maybe an adapted version with a small vibration motor could be easily done. Miniature vibrtion motors are available in a lot of different variations and there are some that can run of 0.3V to 3V and a couple of mA. Battery life will most likely be less than with the speaker however.

I design all the housings for my projects myself but thank you for the offer. The vibrating modification would be a great project since its open source.
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #78 on: May 12, 2017, 03:36:28 AM »
Quote
an adapted version with a small vibration motor

That's an interesting idea. I wonder if lag might be a problem, and the range wouldn't be too great, but well worth a trial. Nice thinking - once I get mine I'll have a go :)
 

Offline Kilrah

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #79 on: May 12, 2017, 04:19:01 AM »
I'm still trying to understand how this can give any useful information... Yes it will allow you to recognise temperature differences, but not quantify them. Say you go over a board, there are always temperature differences as every component will run at a different temperature even in normal operation. Everytime you can hear the temperature of something is higher you'll have no idea by how much and whether it's normal or not without using another tool...
 
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Offline garnix

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #80 on: May 12, 2017, 04:32:03 AM »
Is this sensor capable of measuring absolute temperatures? If so (and I assume after some calibration) you could add  3 x 7segment LCD/LED to it to display the absolute temperature?
 

Offline exoticelectron

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #81 on: May 12, 2017, 04:34:53 AM »
I'm still trying to understand how this can give any useful information... Yes it will allow you to recognise temperature differences, but not quantify them. Say you go over a board, there are always temperature differences as every component will run at a different temperature even in normal operation. Everytime you can hear the temperature of something is higher you'll have no idea by how much and whether it's normal or not without using another tool...


Relative temperature data = thermal camera image without a legend, and just colors. A heat map, literally. There is plenty you can derive from that even before you add in what else you know, such as the nature of the circuit and the thermal signature of a properly operating board of the same type.

Generally malfunctioning parts get much hotter or much cooler than their surrounding parts, or than they are when operating normally. All this can be detected without absolute temperature data.





 

Offline exoticelectron

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #82 on: May 12, 2017, 04:37:47 AM »
Is this sensor capable of measuring absolute temperatures? If so (and I assume after some calibration) you could add  3 x 7segment LCD/LED to it to display the absolute temperature?

It is. Its something I might add in the future, but the open source design is inviting someone else to do it as well. Absolute temperature is not really important for what the deltaK is useful for, but adding it might somehow open up new uses. Still I have to not let feature creep set in and keep on adding things or it will never be finished. My goal here is to release a tool I have been using for years and found very useful for certain electronics tasks.
 

Offline exoticelectron

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #83 on: May 12, 2017, 04:56:46 AM »
FUNCTIONAL REQUESTS!!

So for the relaunch video I want to pack in as many uses as possible, demonstrating each, if I can.

Any ideas?

I can do a better circuit board scan than the original video, maybe short the output of some SMT SOIC's or put in some wrong resistors or what not.

Maybe some stud-finding to show off sensitivity

Scanning things in a running car engine

?

 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #84 on: May 12, 2017, 05:06:30 AM »
Can it detect joists under floorboards or in the ceiling/walls?
 

Offline exoticelectron

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #85 on: May 12, 2017, 05:09:44 AM »
Can it detect joists under floorboards or in the ceiling/walls?

I've detected studs in a wall before but I dont know if it would be useful for that regularly. There needs to be a temperature difference  and that might not be present in a situation where the entire wall has reached equilibrium. But I'll do some tests and see what I find
 

Online mtdoc

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #86 on: May 12, 2017, 05:41:45 AM »
exoticelectron,

The new prototype looks good except that as discussed, it will be too large and heavy to entice myself or other physicians to carry in our pockets for occasional use.

How about a second, smaller version with smaller button, switch, and speaker - powered by a smaller battery(s)?.  Battery life would not be critical for that use case.  Maybe after the initial product release?
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #87 on: May 12, 2017, 04:29:03 PM »
Quote
I've detected studs in a wall before but I dont know if it would be useful for that regularly.

I mentioned it as something you could demo in a video. Doesn't have to work perfectly every time, just the once that you're showing it off :)
 

Offline frenky

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #88 on: May 12, 2017, 09:14:11 PM »
I think that main feature missing is this:  ;D
https://goo.gl/9T1RZQ



I would love to have a tiny thermal module (able to show actual temp) on my keychain.:-+
« Last Edit: May 12, 2017, 09:17:24 PM by frenky »
 
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Offline cleaningOut

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Offline garnix

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #91 on: May 15, 2017, 07:04:04 PM »
Yes, but all those seem to have a measure time of 0.8 sec. So a “swipe operation” over an electronic board to quickly find temperature differences is not possible, you would have to point to each patch of the board for 1 sec to find the hotspot.

Nevertheless, I still like to have absolute temperature displayed - then you have like two devices in one: Swipe operation and spot-measuring. Otherwise I still need to buy two devices ;-)
 
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Online fcb

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #92 on: May 15, 2017, 08:42:01 PM »
Not sure if it's possible, but could you add an LED (red?) that illuminates the approximate area the sensor detects.

This might give the user a better understanding of what they are scanning and build up a 'feel' for the DUT (device-under-test), if you were feeling super jazzy, perhaps use a tri-colour LED and change the colour of the illuminated 'spot' depending on temperature.

 
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Online CJay

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #93 on: May 15, 2017, 09:10:31 PM »
Now I like that idea, dim the room, listen to the note and watch the LED illuminating the board change colour
M6KOX
 

Offline exoticelectron

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #94 on: May 22, 2017, 05:46:04 AM »
Hi guys, sorry for the delay, I've been swamped with major projects.

So yes, there seems to be some major misunderstandings about why the deltaK is special.

First of all, if you dont have a sub 50ms time constant for temperature to indicator, you don't have a scanner, you have a thermometer. All those devices with displays out there have very slow time constants and arent useful for scanning surfaces.

Secondly, numeric displays are useless for scanning. Tones and colors are much better. Cameras use colors because they have a fixed display you stare at. A hand held device should use a tone, that leaves your eyes free to swipe the scanner and locate where its tone is peaking.

These two things are CRITICAL. They are what make the deltaK different and special.

Adding a colored led to indicate temperature would be a gimmick only really. Different surfaces have all kinds of colors and you'd never be able to get precise temperature information from a projected color, especially if its a dark surface. Same goes for LED's you look at directly, the eye is nowhere near as sensitive to color as it is to tone, and you dont want to be watching the scanner as you also move it, that doesnt make sense.

 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #95 on: May 22, 2017, 06:07:53 AM »
Quote
dont want to be watching the scanner as you also move it, that doesnt make sense

How do you know what it's pointing at?
 

Offline exoticelectron

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #96 on: May 22, 2017, 06:13:15 AM »
Quote
dont want to be watching the scanner as you also move it, that doesnt make sense

How do you know what it's pointing at?

Thats my point..its one or the other. What its pointing at, or what temperature its indicating. Not both. There is no reason to want both. Its much simpler and works great by using an audio tone for temperature and using your eyes to scan.

 

Online fcb

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #97 on: May 22, 2017, 06:36:55 AM »
How do you set the height of the scanner?
 

Offline garnix

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #98 on: May 22, 2017, 07:05:29 AM »
I think I understand what is special about the deltaK - but at the same time I'm not sure if a lot of people (outside of detecting faults on electronics boards) initially find the scanning feature very useful, without some research what could be done with such a device - I'm not even sure if it will help for my use cases ;-)

That's why adding a color LED or vibration indicator does not really help, it would just be another GUI for the very same idea, a gimmick.

But adding an absolute temperature display would "double" your feature set. Anybody understands what a temperature measuring device is and probably some will buy it just because of that... and then later might find out the usefulness of scanning fine temperature differences.

Of course those are just my 10 cents ;-) and my guess and wishes are as good as anybody else's.
 

Offline Ben321

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Re: new $39 thermal scanner on kickstarter, the deltaK!
« Reply #99 on: May 22, 2017, 09:39:20 AM »
That's not a thermal scanner. That's an IR thermometer (and those cost about $50 at Radio Shack, so they are pretty cheap). A thermal scanner is a type of thermal imager that has a pair of motorized mirrors that scan horizontally and vertical, and only a single-element thermal sensor (rather than a sensor array and stationary optics like in modern thermal imagers).
 


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