New Flir products

[Uho]

I had the opportunity to test Flir One PRO  a few days. Uneven temperature values on a homogeneous surface are more than one degree celsius. Very low frequency of operation. Incorrect layout of the elements on the board - uneven heating. In many respects worse than v2. Slightly less noise in the image. This is the only but implicit improvement. I do not have information yet on reliability of work. The V2 version has a lot of breakages.

[Fraser]

It is my personal opinion that the FLIR One series are classic 'built down to a price' products. Manufactured cheaply in China and with inadequate supervision/quality assurance testing. There appear to be batches of duds that leave the factory. If you get one that works reliably for a month, you likely got a good one that will last. My original (first release) F1G2 has been very reliable.

Fraser

[jitter]

New updated version of the CAT smartphone which features the FLIR Lepton core. No detailed specs yet, but I suspect this will use the Lepton 3 module.

Looks much nicer, but I suspect poor spec and high price

https://www.catphones.com/en_gb/cat-s61-smartphone

EDIT: More details and pictures here: https://www.engadget.com/2018/02/22/cat-s61-smartphone-bullitt-thermal-camera/#/

£799!!!!

Exact specs on the used FLIR module in the S61 are unknown, but from what I gathered so far the S61 actually seems to use the same thermal sensor as the S60 but with updated software allowing for a wider thermal range and an HD (rather than VGA) overlay of the rear camera image. In other words, no Lepton 3.

Looking at the datasheet of the Lepton, it seems to me that in the S60 it is only used in high gain mode, hence the limited thermal range. In low gain mode, the thermal range is expanded to over 400 degrees C and that would explain how they can get the wider range in the S61 while still using the same thermal sensor.

My friend who works at flir confirmed it is just 80x60

Thanks for the confirmation.
I was wondering why CAT would choose to go with the same sensor rather than with the Lepton 3. It is what I guess most of us were expecting from a successor.
But no, a bigger screen, reworked MyFlir software and two extra gimmicks is what we get instead.

Cost? The Lepton 3 sensor isn't that much more expensive than the Lepton sensor.
What would be the chances of FLIR not wanting CAT to use the Lepton 3? 

[Chanc3]

New updated version of the CAT smartphone which features the FLIR Lepton core. No detailed specs yet, but I suspect this will use the Lepton 3 module.

Looks much nicer, but I suspect poor spec and high price

https://www.catphones.com/en_gb/cat-s61-smartphone

EDIT: More details and pictures here: https://www.engadget.com/2018/02/22/cat-s61-smartphone-bullitt-thermal-camera/#/

£799!!!!

Exact specs on the used FLIR module in the S61 are unknown, but from what I gathered so far the S61 actually seems to use the same thermal sensor as the S60 but with updated software allowing for a wider thermal range and an HD (rather than VGA) overlay of the rear camera image. In other words, no Lepton 3.

Looking at the datasheet of the Lepton, it seems to me that in the S60 it is only used in high gain mode, hence the limited thermal range. In low gain mode, the thermal range is expanded to over 400 degrees C and that would explain how they can get the wider range in the S61 while still using the same thermal sensor.

My friend who works at flir confirmed it is just 80x60

Thanks for the confirmation.
I was wondering why CAT would choose to go with the same sensor rather than with the Lepton 3. It is what I guess most of us were expecting from a successor.
But no, a bigger screen, reworked MyFlir software and two extra gimmicks is what we get instead.

Cost? The Lepton 3 sensor isn't that much more expensive than the Lepton sensor.
What would be the chances of FLIR not wanting CAT to use the Lepton 3?

I suspect it's all down to cost. FLIR probably have a huge surplus of the older gen, so gave CAT a great deal.

I'm done with the Lepton, waiting to see exciting things to happen with the Boson.

[jitter]

It is my personal opinion that the FLIR One series are classic 'built down to a price' products. Manufactured cheaply in China and with inadequate supervision/quality assurance testing. There appear to be batches of duds that leave the factory. If you get one that works reliably for a month, you likely got a good one that will last. My original (first release) F1G2 has been very reliable.

Fraser

Funny you should write this. I bought my CAT S60 through a Hong Kong based channel, and even though the phone was fine, the Lepton thermal sensor had a defective shutter.
Instead of sending it back for warranty, which most reviews said would be an arduous and longwinded process, I replaced the sensor myself. Before I did that, I investigated it a little, and it turned out that the sensor would actuate the shutter solenoid and that the shutter itself operated on a lab supply most of the time, but when coupled back together the shutter remained motionless completely.

It had me wondering if such a fragile mechanical part of the sensor actually has a place in a rugged phone. All reviews and tests focused on drops on conrete without breaking the screen, but none that I have seen looked closely into the FLIR module after the torture tests.

[mikeselectricstuff]

If the CAT is the only phone with a thermal imager, there is no competition, so no need for them to spend more on it to have a higher resolution.

[Uho]

jitter,
You had a problem not with the shutter. This is a poor connection connection. They use poor conductive glue.

[jitter]

Oh no, that was one of the first things I suspected and eliminated. The contact between shutter and sensor turned out to be perfectly fine.

[Vipitis]

My phone has been dropped through my occasions, the sensor and shutter work fine.

The CAT S60, also S61 are in direct competition to the C2 and C3 cameras. But the CAT is cheaper, brings higher rugged rating, better screen, battery, connectivity and a whole working phone with it. The S61 is a little more expensive, but I would still pick it over the C3, as you may get better software in the C3; but moelre software options on the CAT.

The rewired MyFlir app is probably the Flir ONE PRO app: it should in theory work on the S60 too.

[jitter]

I would say that the S61 is going to be more than "a little" more expensive than the S60, by about 50%...

It's good to know that the shutter survives drops of the phone. Then it was probably a case of bad QC why I got a defective one in the first place, and perhaps a reason why it was sold at a much lower price through the Hong Kong supplier.
I certainly hope that the MyFlir app will be backwards compatible with the S60, but somehow I doubt it. It's not in CAT's best interest that current S60 owners should get the same upgrade of the thermal image. The fact that they won't upgrade the OS to a newer version would probably also be indicative of that.

I was wondering if the S61 would be an addition to the lineup or a replacement of the S60. From what things look like now, I'd assume the latter.

[Fraser]

The fact that CAT are not going to use the Lepton3 does surprise me. The CAT phone is a flagship product for displaying a clever consumer/trades use of the technology. I would have expected FLIR to want to encourage CAT to make the move to 160 x 120 pixels and proudly advertise the thermal camera core as a Lepton3.

I apreciate that the Lepton2 is still a very clever piece of thermal camera miniaturisation but in my opinion it was just a stepping stone device to the better Lepton3. The Lepton2 is what I would expect to find in various smart sensors like people counters, object avoidance systems or flame detection cameras. It is too low a resolution to provide what I personally would consider useful images. The step up to 160 x 120 pixels is dramatic in terms of the usefulness of the images produced. The addition of MSX does help both the Lepton2 and Lepton3 when it comes to thermal scene context and ease of user interpretation. It is the wide angle lens with low resolution that is the killer here. This directly effects the minimum detectable area on a target at distance 'X'.

I really hope that we see more products using the Lepton3 but I fear that the infamous FLIR marketing and policy department have a meddling hand in the current situation They have certainly meddled with other products specifications and capabilities

Fraser

[Chanc3]

FYI the S61 will be £799 in the UK!

[Vipitis]

So there have been conflicting reports about the Lepton in the CAT S61. At first only the visible MSX resolution was increased and flir told me that the resolution is still 80x60.

First reviews are in and they said it's 160x120 12qm; so does the support chat on the catphones website.

It will be on shelves by the end of next week. I will have a look.

[DaneLaw]

Looks decent.. video state the res at 160x120 (S61)