Question about FLIR One for Android

[Macbeth]

Fraser, I know you are a Louis Rossmann fan but doesn't infuriate/amuse you how he checks for shorted ICs using heat detection with his lips and a regulated PSU (HP 6632A?)  That same trick would be so much quicker and easier with a F1G2 for not much money at all.

I have certainly used it. At least a few repairs allow me to justify the £200 and 2 month wait anyway! £60 is a no brainer.

[Fraser]

Hi Macbeth,

I have not been watching Louis of recent. The video channel went a bit 'off-tune' for my tastes.

Yes I saw Louis using parts of his anatomy to check surface temperatures. He says be does not want to waste money on the thermal camera. Fair enough if his process works for him. It is only in very recent years that thermal cameras have been affordable to the 'common man' so we techs always tended to use sensitive parts of out bodies to check temperatures on IC's etc    Burnt lips is not pleasant so most of us used a finger tip first, then the back of the hand, and lastly lips if feeling brave, I have never needed  to go beyond the back of my hand though !

I am biased. I love thermal imaging technology so no no excuse to use it in repairs. It helps me understand what is, or is not running properly on a PCB. Louis has his own approach though and I cannot criticise it if it works for him.

I now own four F1G2 cameras as I want to experiment with one or two without having to worry about trashing £200+

Fraser

Fraser

[frenky]

Now that you have mutiple F1G2 you could make a thermal VR headset. 

P.S.
I watch Lois too and he is using soldering iron for about 1000$, microscope for about the same amount, but check for shorts with alcohol and hand. 
I do not know if he is aware of F1G2 existance...

[Fraser]

Frenky,

I already have the parts for a Thermal VR headset...... multiple sets of Olympus FMD200 and the better FMD700 headsets 

Fraser

[-jeffB]

what is the most common use for thermal imaging at home for consumer besides the fun factor? I mean what it is good for for casual people at home.

With a head-mounted or otherwise hands-free version, I'd use it ALL THE TIME for cooking.

[allstone]

what is the most common use for thermal imaging at home for consumer besides the fun factor? I mean what it is good for for casual people at home.

With a head-mounted or otherwise hands-free version, I'd use it ALL THE TIME for cooking.

@-jeffB you can do it try using USB extension cable from Flir to your phone, while the phone should be on your forearm (near wrist). Usb cable would then go from forearm, upper arm, should to your head, to the camera itself. You can attach camera to any cheap cap available. Now while cooking you just face the thing you are cooking in front, camera sees it as it is positioned so, you pull your wrist in front of you and you can just check the screen for the image.

[Fraser]

How about an app that duplicates the image side by side on the phone and then you can use one of those cheap stereoscopic mobile phone VR headsets that I keep seeing

[vze1lryy]

Fraser, I know you are a Louis Rossmann fan but doesn't infuriate/amuse you how he checks for shorted ICs using heat detection with his lips and a regulated PSU (HP 6632A?)  That same trick would be so much quicker and easier with a F1G2 for not much money at all.

I have certainly used it. At least a few repairs allow me to justify the £200 and 2 month wait anyway! £60 is a no brainer.

Kissing something that will later burn you is well within my zone of familiarity.

The problem I've had with any thermal camera is that, I put it above the board, and 90% of the board turns red. So what is hot.. oh the entire board you say... well yes mr. thermal camera, I was aware the short is on the board? But where? It's infuriating! There are over 130 components within the range of the "red dot."

When thermal cameras are 720p and $200 I will jump on it. I was so excited for this, and then I actually demo'd some $6000 FLIR cam and jeez.. absolutely amazing tool for telling where the cold air leaks are in my apartment, but I'd drive myself nuts using that present technology for troubleshooting.

Just goes to show, use what works best for you!!

[Macbeth]

Louis, you are not wrong. It is sometimes hard to appreciate how tiny the stuff you work with actually is! I really should get an Amscope and see for myself!

[Fraser]

For high density 0402 type PCB work a thermal camera really needs to have a resolution of at least 320 x 240 pixels,  and, importantly, it needs both span and centre temperature manual adjustment capability. It will also require the fitting of a decent close-up lens, as most cameras do not focus well at the very close range required for 0402. With such a configuration good thermal mapping may be carried out and individual components seen.

If the camera is left in Auto span and centre temperature mode it will try to cover all bases and not provide the detail required for such work. By setting the span to a relatively small range the centre temperature may be increased and decreased to reveal the components that are operating at the different temperatures in an area if the board.. A full span view covering maximum to minimum temperatures in the FOV can also provide a useful overview on occasions but you can get the large area confusion detailed by Louis.

Good PCB temperature profiling can be done with the right tools and effort. Is the F1G2 the camera for such tasks as Louis is involved with? IMHO, no. Does Louis need a thermal camera to do his job, IMHO his current methods work, so no. 

I am spoilt with the nice industrial cameras that I have in my collection so have not had problems working on PCB's. However I fully understand that such expensive camera technology used in Lois's situation would take a very long time to pay for itself, if ever.

Cheap, budget cameras tend to disappoint. The latest Thermal Expert and similar cameras are getting better images though.

For info, there are such things as thermal microscopes. I own the optics from such a unit. It has X15 magnification
I may use the lens assembly on another camera in the future.

Frsser

[Bill W]

I find that the key to thermal camera fault finding, and indeed making sure the errant part does not catch fire before you fix it, is a very short power on.  Even one second is enough to warm up the fault enough to see it and does not cause the red spread that Louis notes.  All you need is 1 degree rise.

For someone doing enough work, a day out spent making a camera using the core from a second hand fire cameras would surely be worthwhile.  Yes it will have all the aesthetics of a brick but it would be free-standing, 320x240, video out or own display, manual focus and 30Hz, plus possibly manual gain / iris depending on model.  Yours for somewhere around GBP250-500 and a bit of fun putting it together.

regards

Bill
(who may have an interest in this suggestion    )

[allstone]

I find that the key to thermal camera fault finding, and indeed making sure the errant part does not catch fire before you fix it, is a very short power on.  Even one second is enough to warm up the fault enough to see it and does not cause the red spread that Louis notes.  All you need is 1 degree rise.

For someone doing enough work, a day out spent making a camera using the core from a second hand fire cameras would surely be worthwhile.  Yes it will have all the aesthetics of a brick but it would be free-standing, 320x240, video out or own display, manual focus and 30Hz, plus possibly manual gain / iris depending on model.  Yours for somewhere around GBP250-500 and a bit of fun putting it together.

regards

Bill
(who may have an interest in this suggestion    )

I still would like to make Flir One work for that too. I will use it to find out which motor/ESC is bad or does not work correctly on my quadcopter. Or maybe if I have cold solder joints, as its a regular thing to resolder something on quadcopter.  320x240 not really a necessity, I believe good quality dots on lepton even smaller amount of them of 160x120, is ok. It is portable enough to bring to the field and check on quadcopter just after the flying session.

[Fraser]

After Bill's comment i have to say, I love working on thermal cameras so I am very biased. That said ........

The advantage of building your own 'thermal workbench' is that you, the user, can set it up as an overhead view PCB profiler with the right lens settings for the job, manual focus lens to as short a distance as you want (without needing a close-up auxiliary lens) and it will all cost a lot less than a commercial built camera. Such a system would be far more practical for electronics than messing around with a FLIR One G2 or SEEK camera.

I am always amused when I see thermal fire fighting cameras being sold at knock down prices. Many people searching for a cheap thermal camera pass these by, thinking they are old or poor performance. Such could not be further from the truth. They were built to a standard rather than down to a price. They contain well known high quality imaging cores with superb large diameter Germanium lenses and may be stripped down easily. Just because a fire fighting thermal camera is built in a certain format, does not mean it has to stay in that format. As an example, the ARGUS 2's that I just repaired are basically a nice aluminium chassis onto which are bolted the self contained composite video Viewfinder PCB, EEV controller PCB, Raytheon Core PCB and Imaging sensor with Optical block attached. I have long intended to reformat one of these cameras into a more lab friendly format. You could even have the imaging core separated from the EEV controller and viewfinder boards, like the LAB cameras that had the CCD head separate form the rest of the camera electronics.

Well that is enough of my off F1G2 topic comment but potential FLIR One G2 owners should consider some of the more bulky thermal camera formats if they have the ability to remodel such to a custom solution that better suits their needs.

Fraser

[Fraser]

A word of caution to those thinking of using a thermal camera to monitor solder joints. Such are highly reflective and have very poor emissivity. As such you see your own body heat reflected off of them. The solder joint surface temperature is very hard to measure unless a high emissivity coating has been applied to it first. It would be possible to see localised heating of the PCB around a poor quality high current solder joint. Much depends upon the exact topology of the PCB being examined.

A FLIR One G2 would really need a close-up lens in order to make any sense of a modern model flight controller. They are small.

Fraser

[faboaic]

The problem I've had with any thermal camera is that, I put it above the board, and 90% of the board turns red. So what is hot.. oh the entire board you say... well yes mr. thermal camera, I was aware the short is on the board? But where? It's infuriating! There are over 130 components within the range of the "red dot."

it depends on the density, etc.

From my point of view it can be good enough for many things.
E.g. a defective ESC on the quadcopter:

https://youtu.be/81KTsn3Yo1k

https://youtu.be/qxtDaJcAIm4

Cheers,
Fabian

[allstone]

The problem I've had with any thermal camera is that, I put it above the board, and 90% of the board turns red. So what is hot.. oh the entire board you say... well yes mr. thermal camera, I was aware the short is on the board? But where? It's infuriating! There are over 130 components within the range of the "red dot."

it depends on the density, etc.

From my point of view it can be good enough for many things.
E.g. a defective ESC on the quadcopter:

https://youtu.be/81KTsn3Yo1k

https://youtu.be/qxtDaJcAIm4

Cheers,
Fabian

Exactly! And when u see on esc which part is overheating, you can always place a small heatsink on that part as to better dissipate the heat if you haven't got a spare on hands.

[G0MJW]

Hi All

I am having some issues getting this to work on the lastest RPI raspian distribution. Its a newer kernel which may be an issue but I think the real problem is the steps are scattered all over this thread so its not really clear what needs to be done and which is the latest driver e.g. flir8p1 is newer than flir8l3. 8p1 contains an already compiled executable but I can't clean and remake it, whereas I can with 8l3 but both give the same error which is an issue with v4l.

[ 2494.720659] usb 1-1.4: new high-speed USB device number 7 using dwc_otg
[ 2494.822165] usb 1-1.4: New USB device found, idVendor=09cb, idProduct=1996
[ 2494.822191] usb 1-1.4: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
[ 2494.822208] usb 1-1.4: Product: FLIR ONE Camera
[ 2494.822225] usb 1-1.4: Manufacturer: FLIR Systems
[ 2494.822241] usb 1-1.4: SerialNumber: FLIRONEF03G4F004AFF

sudo ./flir8p1 Rainbow.raw
Successfully find the Flir One G2 device
Successfully set usb configuration 3
Successfully claimed interface 0,1,2
using output device: /dev/video2
flir8p1: flir8p1.c:168: startv4l2: Assertion `fdwr1 >= 0' failed.

sudo ./flir8l3
Successfully find the Flir One G2 device
Successfully set usb configuration 3
Successfully claimed interface 0,1,2
using output device: /dev/video1
flir8l3: flir8l3.c:136: startv4l2: Assertion `fdwr0 >= 0' failed.

ls -al /dev/video*
ls: cannot access /dev/video*: No such file or directory

v4l-utils and v4l2loopback are both installed.:

pi@raspberrypi:~/flir8l3 $ dpkg --get-selections |grep v4l
libv4l-0:armhf                                  install
libv4l-dev:armhf                                install
libv4l2rds0:armhf                               install
libv4lconvert0:armhf                            install
v4l-utils                                       install
v4l2loopback-dkms                               install

So why the assertion error? Note this PI works fine with a webcam. I am missing a driver installation step - hence the request for a procedure.

Mike

Postscript

I was right about there being something missing. The v412loopback driver. Installing this is Raspian is a bit of a trial. It required kernel headers, but no, not the ones that you can install from apt-get which are missing a build directory.

The headers are found from https://www.niksula.hut.fi/~mhiienka/Rpi/linux-headers-rpi/

You need to know your kernel:

$ uname -a
Linux raspberrypi 4.4.21-v7+ #911 SMP Thu Sep 15 14:22:38 BST 2016 armv7l GNU/Linux

Download the appropriate headers and install with:
$ sudo dpkg -i /home/pi/linux-headers-4.4.21-v7+_4.4.21-v7+-2_armhf.deb

Its important to get the right ones, your world might end otherwise. Then you can download and make:

$ git clone https://github.com/umlaeute/v4l2loopback
$ cd v412loopback
$ sudo make    [I needed sudo - normally you don't]
$ sudo make install

But I has to insmod rather than modprobe, I am still thinking about that.

e.g. sudo insmod v4l2loopback/v4l2loopback.ko video_nr=0,1,2,3


I an not running a gui so to make it do something useful I piped it to another PC and opened it in vlc (rtp://@:1234) based on the advice further up this thread:

From the directory I compiled the flir package in I ran:

$ sudo ./flir8p1 Rainbow.raw

and in another terminal

This needs avtools
 
$ sudo apt-get install libav-tools
$ avconv -f video4linux2 -i /dev/video3 -vcodec mpeg2video -r 25 -pix_fmt yuv420p -me_method epzs -b 2600k -bt 256k -f rtp rtp://192.168.1.100:1234






 

[tomas123]

Hi Mike,

Now flir8p1 with v4l works fine?

(Sorry but currently I'm not working with my raspberry pi.)

[G0MJW]

Hi Thomas - not the version that comes with Jessie-lite. It seems to be necessary to compile the loopback module but that means getting the kernel headers and these are not where they should be but need to be downloaded from the site I mentioned.

[rbalint]

I see use use the last driver from cynfab

Here is my latest version of the driver, it has a few "improvements" over the last one posted here.
flir8p1.zip

Is this pipe correct?
"Phantom 3 Pro" with Android mini pc (Raspberry pi 3) running a "VirtualHere USB Server"  -> wifi ->   Linux tablet with flir8p1 software and VirtualHere USB Client

Based on the PM discussion with tomas123 I added copyright info to the files. Tomas123 kindly agreed to license the code and other content under GPL 2+ and I think I tracked down the origin of font5x7.h, too.

Clarifying licensing is needed because I would like to add some improvements and share it on GitHub - I'll post the repository URL here.

[cynfab]

You are welcome.

[tomas123]

Clarifying licensing is needed because I would like to add some improvements and share it on GitHub - I'll post the repository URL here.

I agree with the GPL license. 
Please post the link to your github project.

[pbash]

Thanks to Tomas and Cynfab for the great work on the Flir One G2 and the flir8p1.c program that I am using stream thermal images.

I'm looking to improve the accuracy of the temperature readings and have extracted most of the calibration constants from CameraFiles.zip and updated Planck.h:
.calib.extRBF.ds120C_weRB_apNOA_fiNOF_le.B double 1494.1                      PlanckB
.calib.extRBF.ds120C_weRB_apNOA_fiNOF_le.F double 1                                PlanckF
.calib.extRBF.ds120C_weRB_apNOA_fiNOF_le.J0 double 1223                        Planck0
.calib.extRBF.ds120C_weRB_apNOA_fiNOF_le.J1 double 81.587158
.calib.extRBF.ds120C_weRB_apNOA_fiNOF_le.R double 20628.172                PlanckR1

However, I cant find the PlanckR2 constant for my camera in calib.rsc and hence using the default value from the planck.h file. Unfortunately, I dont have an Android phone to get an image file that I have seen can be used with exiftool to obtain the values. Appreciate any pointers on how to find PlanckR2 and again thanks for the great work.

[tomas123]

this is a good question
I will help you:

from my radiometric jpg:

Code: [Select]

$ exiftool -planck*  flir_20160319T173259.jpg
Planck R1                       : 16528.178
Planck B                        : 1427.5
Planck F                        : 1
Planck O                        : -1307
Planck R2                       : 0.012258549

from CameraFiles.zip

Code: [Select]

$ grep CameraFiles/system/calib.rsc
.calib.extRBFCalc.curData.cProt.ds120C_weRB_apNOA_fiNOF_leExFOL2.const text "R 16528, B 1427.5, F 1.00 (J0 1307, J1 81.575722)"
1/81.575722=0.01225854918
(-1)*-1307 = 1307
 

[Uho]

 The use of macro lens with a 25mm focal. With germanium lens 15mm focal seen the sweat glands on the hand.