Author Topic: SeekThermal Compact Pro (Read 36644 times)

Motero · « **on:** May 31, 2016, 01:25:55 pm »

Hello people,

Seek Thermal launches a new product: Seek Thermal Compact PRO
With a sensor of 320 x 240 pixels, increase the resolution of their previous models. It must be attentive to see that enhancements associated with this new model.

More information here: http://www.lk-shop.com/neuheiten/461/seek-thermal-compact-pro
Regards
Marcos

Chanc3 · « **Reply #1 on:** May 31, 2016, 02:32:19 pm »

That's pretty damn impressive for the size - if only they supported USB type C!

frenky · « **Reply #2 on:** May 31, 2016, 08:24:20 pm »

I'm really interested in image quality.
But even if it's still poor it will probably help bring down the price of ThermalExpert and maybe Therm-App.

ebclr · « **Reply #3 on:** May 31, 2016, 11:19:57 pm »

I own a seek, It's cool but useless for electronics, it's better to find people or animals at night on dark nights

frenky · « **Reply #4 on:** June 01, 2016, 06:10:37 am »

For electronics just put cheap ZnSe lens (with 100mm or 4" focal length) in front of Seek. Ebay: http://goo.gl/aeRLm6
You will get sharp image at approx 10cm(4") distance which is great for finding faults.

It seems that Reveal will get upgraded too:
http://www.lk-shop.com/neuheiten/460/seek-thermal-reveal-pro

Image frequency 30 Hz
Use buildings / Industrial
Range up to 300m
type monocular
Size Pocket Size
Resolution 320x240 pixels
Recording Yes
Weight up to 400g

encryptededdy · « **Reply #5 on:** June 01, 2016, 06:34:03 am »

niceeeee.

I'll be interested to see how this stacks up with the Therm-App, ThermalExpert and E4+

frenky · « **Reply #6 on:** June 01, 2016, 07:11:59 am »

True. Someone with deep pocket or a group of people should do a comparison shots showing the same subjects.

hikanio · « **Reply #7 on:** June 01, 2016, 07:37:50 am »

Just very strange that these new products seems to appear on the web site of a small German dealer first, while there is absolutely nothing on the SEEK web site or any press release...

Would be a nice strategy for a small dealer to get some attention to his web site, wouldn't it? ;-)

Cheers
Hikanio

frenky · « **Reply #8 on:** June 01, 2016, 07:52:22 am »

I don't think it's fake. Probably just too early leaked for promotional purpose or just an error on the store manager side.

Old:

New:

And it seems that the app will get upgraded to:

frenky · « **Reply #9 on:** June 01, 2016, 08:14:06 am »

Mistake...

encryptededdy · « **Reply #10 on:** June 01, 2016, 08:51:47 am »

My only problem is that the lens appears the same size as the Seek Compact (non-pro) and certainly much smaller than the lenses on the ThermApp or ThermalExpert (idk about the relative size of the E4 lens).

Would this imply the lens has a small aperture or perhaps they are just able to use a smaller lens due to the 12um microbolometer.

Motero · « **Reply #11 on:** June 01, 2016, 02:50:23 pm »

In the LK-SHOP WEB they have removed references to this product

We can boast that we now have an exclusive news

, although it may prove adventurous
Time will tell, but I bet if.

Regards
Marcos

frenky · « **Reply #12 on:** June 03, 2016, 12:52:52 pm »

LK Shop is rotating this two banners on the front page: http://www.lk-shop.com/

So it should be available in this month...

Redshift1340 · « **Reply #13 on:** June 04, 2016, 09:12:26 am »

Quote from: frenky on June 03, 2016, 12:52:52 pm

LK Shop is rotating this two banners on the front page: http://www.lk-shop.com/

Looks like they just removed the banners as well. I hope this is a real product and that this website just accidentally let the cat out of the bag early, and that's why the info was pulled down.

Fraser · « **Reply #14 on:** June 04, 2016, 12:48:23 pm »

I do not know about this new product. I am a little disappointed.

I was truly hoping that SEEK Thermal might decide to release a competitor to the FLIR Ex camera range.

No matter what your views about FLIR, I believe they produced a very ergonomic camera in their iX, Ex and Exx series. The pistol grip with trigger capture is just so comfortable to use.

I had hoped that SEEK would produce their own version of the pistol grip shape and install their new microbolometer behind a decent sized lens. I am no optics expert but cannot help feeling the small size of the current size SEEK cameras is a limitation for performance. Chalcogenide lens material is, after all, a reasonably priced product that can be mass produced.

It would also be interesting to see whether SEEK Thermal have overcome the FLIR Patent limitation that forced every 15th pixel to be inactive in an image.
SEEK Thermal dis suggest that their next microbolometer would overcome this issue.

I really hope their new product is a step up in image quality, both in terms of resolution, noise content and image processing. I suspect it will not be long before a higher resolution 'Reveal' model arrives on the market as well.

Fraser

encryptededdy · « **Reply #15 on:** June 04, 2016, 03:12:28 pm »

Yeah, I'm not sure how to feel about this. It's a 320x240 sensor, yes, but I'm highly skeptical about whether it would be able to produce a good image - I don't think we should get too hyped. Seek cannot only improve their sensor; their optics and image processing have to be improved massively.

Remember when the original seek was announced and everyone was hyped over it's 200x150 resolution, only to find out that the actual resolvable detail was less than most 160x120 resolution cameras?

With that said, I'm happy to be proven wrong here and see Seek being a truly very competitive product to market.

efahrenholz · « **Reply #16 on:** June 04, 2016, 07:05:42 pm »

I don't believe it. The images look fake, so if anything it's just a mock up. I'd love to be wrong, but I just can't see how they managed to stuff a 320x240 sensor in the same die area (look at the lens, same size as mentioned.) What's likely is a fast frame version of the compact, since it's all that's really required to achieve this is a firmware swap at the factory, different badging on the compact and a small modification to the package.

A 320x240 sensor would raise the price of this thing significantly. That would require a new board, new firmware, all the FCC testing to boot, and anything else I missed. They went crazy with those stupid reveal devices, so a lot of time engineering them and preparing for sales. When would they have had the time to design and implement this new image core? My understanding is Seek is a small company. R&D would require extensive resources. This isn't FLIR, and even they took significant time to push out revisions to the Lepton.

Therefor I'm raising the BS flag.

hikanio · « **Reply #17 on:** June 20, 2016, 09:11:27 pm »

Well, now it's official and on the web site http://www.thermal.com

No date confirmed yet, price below $500.

encryptededdy · « **Reply #18 on:** June 21, 2016, 02:17:22 am »

I'm very excited to see what kind of quality this sensor delivers. My main concern is the lens - judging by it's size I'm afraid it might be a rather small aperture - ie. f/1.4 or less as opposed to the f/1.1 and f/1.0 lenses found on the ThermApp or ThermalExpert. This would obviously reduce NETD in addition to the fact that it looks like Seek haven't released official specs for NETD.

frenky · « **Reply #19 on:** June 21, 2016, 02:37:44 am »

Quote from: encryptededdy on June 21, 2016, 02:17:22 am

I'm very excited to see what kind of quality this sensor delivers. My main concern is the lens - judging by it's size I'm afraid it might be a rather small aperture - ie. f/1.4 or less as opposed to the f/1.1 and f/1.0 lenses found on the ThermApp or ThermalExpert. This would obviously reduce NETD in addition to the fact that it looks like Seek haven't released official specs for NETD.

http://www.warmtebeeldcamera.nl/nl/seek-thermal-compact-pro-ios-fastframe.html

Specs on this site say <75mK.

Fraser · « **Reply #20 on:** June 21, 2016, 09:58:11 am »

30Hz frame rate on the Reveal version. >15Hz on the mobile phone version.
An interesting and welcome development if such frame rates are made available in Europe.

I see they also offer a neat little tripod mount for the phone version as well.

All good to see but the quality of the image is the key factor for me. Specifications mean little if the image produced is poor.

Fraser

Chanc3 · « **Reply #21 on:** June 21, 2016, 10:02:39 am »

Press release just launched:

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/seek-thermal-announces-its-first-affordable-professional-grade-infrared-thermal-imaging-camera-for-the-smartphone-300286845.html

frenky · « **Reply #22 on:** June 21, 2016, 10:10:48 am »

In the press release it's <70mk sensitivity.

In this pdf there are two images that look like they could be from this new module:
http://www.lk-shop.com/media/pdf/compact-pro-sellsheet-eu-english.pdf

mikeselectricstuff · « **Reply #23 on:** June 21, 2016, 10:30:45 am »

I suspect you'll need a pretty powerful phone, with good USB bandwidth to get a decent framerate. High-speed data-in from USB isn't a common phone requirement so wouldn't be surprised if only a few phones can deliver decent performance

frenky · « **Reply #24 on:** June 21, 2016, 10:42:35 am »

True. They even hinted that in this pdf: http://www.lk-shop.com/media/pdf/compact-pro-sellsheet-eu-english.pdf
Made for iPhone® and Android™ top models...

And in the PR: http://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/seek-thermal-announces-its-first-affordable-professional-grade-infrared-thermal-imaging-camera-for-the-smartphone-300286845.html
Maximum FastFrame image frequency rate >15 (dependent on the user's smartphone capability)

efahrenholz · « **Reply #25 on:** June 21, 2016, 05:21:04 pm »

I don't think the USB bandwidth is going to be the problem, it's only a 320x240 size image. The main issue is the processing of the data once it's on the phone. Since Seek has to do unspeakable things to the image to make it look usable, our phones are going to be running hot. However, the jump from the current sensor to this isn't much. I suspect anything from the last year or two should be able to run it without any issues.

Given Seeks history, I wouldn't get too excited. I feel burned by the first device, and spending money on them again will take great consideration.

all_repair · « **Reply #26 on:** June 21, 2016, 09:34:58 pm »

Maybe a bit unfair to Seek. I bought a 1st version Seek too, it could have been much better. But at that time, it was the best value Thermal Cam at that form-factor. It did the jobs I had for the gear, and allowed me to skip Flir 1 and C2, and in a position to wait and to choose the next better one.

These Pro gears shall force the hands of FLIR hard.

efahrenholz · « **Reply #27 on:** June 22, 2016, 09:25:03 am »

In what way is it unfair? It's honest. Yes, we paid for what we got. Yes, the image from the sensor is pretty bad. Yes, Seek does a lot of cosmetic work to the image output to beautify it (targeted at casual gadget addicts). It's like saying it's unfair to call people on welfare poor. It is what it is.

What is truly unfair is how Seek marketed the camera. They lied about performance and used images from a high end camera in their advertisements. They lied about the effective resolution of the sensor, and they came here and tried to argue that the enormous amount of dead/disabled pixels doesn't matter due to the wavelength:pixel size ratio! They still haven't released any serious data on the sensor (sensitivity? Hello?). It's industry standard to release the full specs on a thermal imager. Yes, it matters. Even FLIR's little Lepton sensor has full details, and that thing was made originally for isheeple. Oh, and don't get me started on the smartphone software. They gave us halfway working emissivity settings and instead of fixing it, they removed it. How about the uniformity issue that pagued brand new devices out the door.

Calling it unfair to Seek isn't justified. It was unfair to the consumers who were duped. I called them dishonest long ago and I still stand by it.

simone.pignatti · « **Reply #28 on:** June 24, 2016, 12:51:00 pm »

Hello we have several Compact PRO for iOS and Android to test.
It requires a new APP which is at the moment available only via Apple TestFlight.
We expect the first delivery of Compact PRO for beginning of July, the Reveal PRO will arrive maybe one month later.
The frame rate depends from the CPU speed of the Smartphone and in our beta app we can see the changing value of the frame rate.
As added features the PRO will add:
- full radiometric data
- emissivety regulation
- 32° FOV
- 320X240 PIXELS

Attached is an early taken picture from 10cm distance, the component is 1x1cm

Ciao!

frenky · « **Reply #29 on:** June 24, 2016, 01:28:56 pm »

Please share more images. And if you can a photo of this compactPro model. All currently published images are just 3d renderings.

simone.pignatti · « **Reply #30 on:** June 24, 2016, 01:42:15 pm »

Quote from: frenky on June 24, 2016, 01:28:56 pm

Please share more images. And if you can a photo of this compactPro model. All currently published images are just 3d renderings.

Here you are
We will post more pictures when the next release of the APP will be available

frenky · « **Reply #31 on:** June 24, 2016, 05:04:54 pm »

Thank you. Would you say that lens are any bigger compared to regular model?

efahrenholz · « **Reply #32 on:** June 24, 2016, 05:10:38 pm »

I don't know what to say... "I told you so" is too cliché.

That looks pretty bad for a 320x240.

in.Vitro · « **Reply #33 on:** June 25, 2016, 12:04:16 am »

Quote from: efahrenholz on June 24, 2016, 05:10:38 pm

That looks pretty bad for a 320x240.

absolutly

can you upload some Video footage from it?

hikanio · « **Reply #34 on:** June 25, 2016, 06:48:42 am »

Well, that guy on the thermal picture must be dead already telling from the temp span....

hikanio · « **Reply #35 on:** June 25, 2016, 08:35:34 am »

Beside that obvious bug with the temperature span, Seek still seems to have serious noise issues.

This is just not enough to challenge the modded Flir cameras with the 320x240 resolution. (attached picture is from modded E30)

encryptededdy · « **Reply #36 on:** June 25, 2016, 09:27:57 am »

The images are basically exactly what the price would suggest.

Better (at least IMHO, we need more comparisons) than the $250 OG Seek / FLIR One, however noticeably worse than the ~$1000 Therm-App, ThermalExpert or hacked FLIR E4

Fraser · « **Reply #37 on:** June 25, 2016, 10:21:43 am »

I just wish there was more information available about the new microbolometer. It would be interesting to see what improvements, if any, have been incorporated.

mct75 · « **Reply #38 on:** June 27, 2016, 12:10:59 am »

Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on June 21, 2016, 10:30:45 am

I suspect you'll need a pretty powerful phone, with good USB bandwidth to get a decent framerate. High-speed data-in from USB isn't a common phone requirement so wouldn't be surprised if only a few phones can deliver decent performance

I question using a cellphone to do the "heavy lifting" as there's just too much variance in specs, software etc. My phone has a 2.something GHz quad core and I still can't keep the UI from lagging. Plus, while the USB port should be good for ~400 Mbps, I've never seen anything even close to that as far as transfer, and this is including using SD cards that can max out a desktop card reader.

mikeselectricstuff · « **Reply #39 on:** June 27, 2016, 10:33:54 pm »

I've just been promised one by Seek in a couple of weeks' time

encryptededdy · « **Reply #40 on:** June 29, 2016, 01:47:49 am »

Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on June 27, 2016, 10:33:54 pm

I've just been promised one by Seek in a couple of weeks' time

I think you might need a newer phone than that Moto G if you want to get anywhere near the rated frame rate.

frenky · « **Reply #41 on:** June 29, 2016, 09:20:40 am »

Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on June 27, 2016, 10:33:54 pm

I've just been promised one by Seek in a couple of weeks' time

https://www.youtube.com/user/mikeselectricstuff

F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5...

mikeselectricstuff · « **Reply #42 on:** August 15, 2016, 03:58:36 pm »

Just had a shipping notification.

encryptededdy · « **Reply #43 on:** August 16, 2016, 03:10:25 am »

Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 15, 2016, 03:58:36 pm

Just had a shipping notification.

Make sure you also get a phone that can handle processing 30fps. The Moto G probably won't do.

frenky · « **Reply #44 on:** August 17, 2016, 07:51:43 am »

I believe this is the first review of the CompactPro:
http://blog.ivytools.com/2016/08/11/seek-compact-pro-ff-image-gallery/

Fraser · « **Reply #45 on:** August 17, 2016, 10:08:15 am »

It looks promising. Far better than the original model.

Whether it is as good as the ThermApp and Thermal Expert will likely dictate whether it is value for money though. It still has a very small lens compared to the competition in that market segment. Small span images will reveal how much noise is present in the system.

Fraser

mikeselectricstuff · « **Reply #46 on:** August 18, 2016, 08:10:01 am »

Just got it but no time to play.

first impressions :

Pretty noisy. Quite noticeable fixed pattern noise as well as dynamic
Manages about 6fps on my Samsung J5 2016 (1.2Ghz quadcore). I suspect things like USB performance on different phones may be at least as important as phone CPU power. Will try on others as & when I get the chance.
UI is horrible - very non-intuitive for even simple things like changing pallette
Has self-disconnected a couple of times in the 5 mins I've been using it.
Lens is bigger than the original unit, maybe 2x diameter

encryptededdy · « **Reply #47 on:** August 18, 2016, 08:28:55 am »

Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 18, 2016, 08:10:01 am

Manages about 6fps on my Samsung J5 2016 (1.2Ghz quadcore). I suspect things like USB performance on different phones may be at least as important as phone CPU power. Will try on others as & when I get the chance.

It's also likely that when developing the software Seek only optimised/tested the software for the most popular flagship devices.

frenky · « **Reply #48 on:** August 20, 2016, 08:17:35 pm »

Some images and video of Pro model:
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/467570_Seek_thermal_compact_Pro.html

mikeselectricstuff · « **Reply #49 on:** August 21, 2016, 08:07:44 pm »

Kilrah · « **Reply #50 on:** August 21, 2016, 08:46:55 pm »

Nice, thanks!

Yeah the app is pretty terrible, really feels like it's been designed by marketing gurus à la GoPro to put more emphasis around fancy-looking modern stuff and the following/sharing craze than actual usability.

The "choose default app" popup is definitely not an "android problem" but an inability from them to handle that properly, I had the same problem with the old app on 2 phones when I had my Seek, and no other device I have that uses the same principle (including my Thermal Expert Q1) has that issue, it just asks once on first connection and then it's remembered, connecting the camera launches the app and detection works straight away.

frenky · « **Reply #51 on:** September 01, 2016, 08:25:25 am »

So CompactPro in EU is 620€ + shipping: https://www.alzashop.com/seek-thermal-compactpro-for-android-d4435812.htm

IMHO way to much because you can get regular T.E. Q1 with shipping, taxes and import duties for approx 640€.

encryptededdy · « **Reply #52 on:** September 01, 2016, 10:43:35 am »

Yeah, 620 EUR is completely overpriced. There's literally no reason to buy the Seek CompactPro over the Thermal Expert.

Quote from: mikeselectricstuff on August 21, 2016, 08:07:44 pm

Considering Seek is calling this a CompactPRO, that app is atrocious. In addition to the ugly user interface, it looks really slow and just generally painful to use.

I think instead of reinventing the wheel with the UI they need to take a look at how camera apps (especially ones with lots of settings) are designed and model their app off of them.

I think the same also applies to the FLIR One - while the apps are okay for first-time thermal camera users they need to realise that for anyone but the absolute beginner having only 3 options on the screen at once and burying all the other 10 options in a series of menus is not okay

I actually mocked up a UI back when I was looking into developing a Therm-App SDK app (unfortunately that never happened) that's based off the UI of real thermal cameras.

It's pretty obvious that once can fit many more options on the screen than what they're doing right now.

frenky · « **Reply #53 on:** September 01, 2016, 10:56:57 am »

That would look pretty good on my LG G3:

If I had time I would go into making a better android app from TE Q1.... perhaps in a few months.

AranLeer · « **Reply #54 on:** September 01, 2016, 07:20:37 pm »

I really appreciate in Mike's video that he did a side-by-side comparison of the Seek CompatPro with the older model Compact and FLIR One, But would it be possible to get a side-by-side comparison between Seek CompactPro and T.E. - Q1? I don't know if anyone on this blog could get access to both, but if so that would be a valuable point of comparison since they (at least the base model Q1) are the same price.

frenky · « **Reply #55 on:** September 02, 2016, 08:52:20 am »

If somebody sends me CompactPro I can make a direct comparison... (I would return it of course)

Meanwhile you can compare photos here (CompactPro):
http://www.ar15.com/forums/t_6_18/467570_Seek_thermal_compact_Pro.html
http://blog.ivytools.com/2016/08/11/seek-compact-pro-ff-image-gallery/

With photos here (TE Q1+):
https://imgur.com/a/e0mTC

Kilrah · « **Reply #56 on:** September 03, 2016, 10:49:55 am »

Reveal Pro just announced for $700: http://www.thermal.com/products/revealpro/

Fraser · « **Reply #57 on:** September 03, 2016, 11:11:32 am »

Now that product makes sense. SEEK Thermal may have accessed an otherwise unserviced part of the market. A complete thermal viewer for $700. The E4 is close to that price now but requires 'hacking' which will not appeal to all.

The relatively small screen will also hide some of the noise in the image from the user.The Reveal series, like the original FLIR E2 (old E series) is a 'Thermal torch' and useful for security and trekking amongst other activities. I see this as the first SEEK Thermal product that has the potential to be a winner. The equivalent FLIR PS SCOUT series unit is more expensive and has no image saving capability.

I hope this is a winner for SEEK.

Fraser

encryptededdy · « **Reply #58 on:** September 04, 2016, 02:01:04 am »

This also alleviates the problem with needing a phone with sufficient performance to process the images at >15Hz. I assume the dedicated hardware in the Reveal Pro will maintain a fast frame rate easily.

I agree with Fraser on this one, however with just 3 buttons (no D-pad) and no touchscreen to control it, Seek will have to have done a really good job with the UI to make a UI with all of the advanced features accessible without digging through layers and layers of menus.

Seek needs to realise that quite a few buyers of the Reveal *Pro* will demand access to more features like span locking, max/min, emissivity adjustment etc. without having to dig through layers upon layers of menus.

Unfortunately judging from their mobile app I don't have high hopes for their UX design...

I think they would've been much better off adding a D-pad or a touchscreen to this device.

jetdail · « **Reply #59 on:** February 15, 2017, 02:16:16 pm »

new apk for compact pro ... they have improve the frame-rate (for a moto z at least reaching 18Hz) .much smoother image .less shutter clic ( wait for 2 or 3 minutes before it stabilize ).the apk as inflate from 10 to 45 meg(what the hell did they put in ? possible reason = when you "set simulation mode " instead of crashing your android phone you now have a creepy video file playing and can access radiometric data storing but i don't know how to manipulate that ) .hidden mode "preferences" doesn't show the possibility to store radiometric data when your real camera is attached , it neither wasn't working in the previous version ... after all some good improvements but still no possibility to explore radiometric data as they claim in they advertisements ( the reason why i bought this )...really hungry of felling played like a fool even if i think that camera could be satisfying with all the possibilities been released ( trying my best English, sorry for that ) ..

methael · « **Reply #60 on:** May 29, 2017, 08:05:59 pm »

Is there a way to use the seek thermal compact pro on a computer?

joe-c · « **Reply #61 on:** May 30, 2017, 07:00:26 pm »

I have no pro version.

but i know somebody who have.
i know the PID is not the same:
0x0010 (Compact + XR / Android or iPhone)
0x0011 (Seek Pro)

i tried to modify my code with resolution 320x240 and the other PID.
the Connection to the camera could be established, but the frames was not delivered.

I guess the Pro version will use another startup Byte sequence.

Ben321 · « **Reply #62 on:** June 18, 2017, 03:11:17 am »

Quote from: Chanc3 on May 31, 2016, 02:32:19 pm

That's pretty damn impressive for the size - if only they supported USB type C!

USB C plugs do not fit in USB Micro sockets. It would have been a bad business move for them to use a completely new type of plug, that works in only about 1% of the phones that people own. USB Micro works in 99% of the phones that people own, including my own, so it's a good thing that they didn't switch over to using USB C, or I wouldn't be able to use the device on my phone. And I do plan on buying a Seek Compact Pro within the next month.

Undweeber · « **Reply #63 on:** August 19, 2018, 07:28:30 pm »

iPhones have the hardest working horse of a mobile CPU, don't they render better?
proof - old iPhone 5S, considering iPhone 6S outperforms Galaxy S8, you are better off with any iPhone driving this thing


EEVblog Main Site	EEVblog on Youtube	EEVblog on Twitter	EEVblog on Facebook	EEVblog on Odysee

Author Topic: SeekThermal Compact Pro (Read 36644 times)

Share me