Author Topic: Thermal Imaging Gallery  (Read 115050 times)

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Offline Vipitis

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #150 on: February 08, 2018, 07:24:10 pm »
Resolution isn't the main selling point, high framerates up to 240fps on a crop and 120 full sensor(if I read the datasheet correctly) as well as radiometric video is worth the money. It is a targeted towards research anyways.
 

Offline David C

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #151 on: February 08, 2018, 10:17:03 pm »
If I would like to get into thermal photography (not research or measurements), what are the best options out there for this application ?
 

Offline Vipitis

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #152 on: February 09, 2018, 01:42:05 am »
Ultrapurple is the best example. He had multiple ThermApp imagers. Those aren't targeted towards thermography like the consumer products from Flir.

You can apply a lot, but not all, photography tricks to thermal photography to make the best out of your image. But there is a resolution threshold you need to create something that is displayable on a computer screen or mobile phone. 80x60 won't cut it, even if you try really hard. You need at least 6times such a resolution in my eyes: 480x320 or greater. Next feature that is doing a big part in the quality and creative capabilities is lenses. You want the option to change lenses, not just put more in front. Also the focussing of a good Ge lens will improve the image by a big margin.
It's always great to have powerful software to finalize your images in post. But don't just shoot something raw I the field and make up the final look at home. Best is to bring the idea for color, stretching and gamma before you take the shot.
For flir radiometric images you can use various software: FLIR tools and Pallette generator by MyThermalWorld. The sticky in this subforum contains a really powerful piece of software that works with different cameras and file types and let's you edit thermal images in post.
There isn't really a market for Thermal Photography - more for Thermal Imaging; but it's doable and really interesting.
 

Offline Ultrapurple

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #153 on: February 12, 2018, 02:10:03 pm »
I agree with Vipitis (and thank you for your kind words).

Most of my cameras are not intended for precision thermography, which makes them much more affordable. But resolution and lens choice are vital.

You can get good results with a 320 x 240 or 384 x 288 sensor, which is roughly the same as a VHS video tape (remember them?), which the market considered acceptable for moving images for years. Using superresolution (shaky hand) techniques can improve on the effective resolution by up to about a factor of 1.5 or 2; multiple exposures (pan and scan) can give you extremely high resolution of a fixed subject, provided your lens is capable of breaking the subject down into small chunks. Think in terms of visible-light gigapixel photos made with a camera on maximum zoom.

Higher resolution sensors can give sharper results. The 640 x 480 class is very nice, although if I could afford it I would definitely buy an XGA (1024 x 768) or SXGA (1280 x 1024) sensor. I'm hoping that the new generation of sensors from China may make this possible in the next several years.

The right lens - or interchangeable lenses - make a difference, too. Wide- or narrow-angle lenses need to be chosen to suit the subject. I would love to have one of the 25-250mm (class) motorised zoom lenses that are out there, but they remain well beyond my pocket. For general looking around a short focal length (eg 6.8mm) works fine but for detailed work a longer focal length is very useful. Also, if you have more than one lens you can combine them for microscopy and similar work.

Most of the time I find I do my thermal work in black and white, although I have managed some pleasing images in false colour. Vipitis is right, that one can do a lot in post-processing if you choose. I tend to use ThermViewer with my Therm-App cameras, because (a) it gives decent results and (b) outputs a data file of the actual values of each pixel. I haven't started using these files yet but I figure they're a kind of insurance: I have rescued several visible light photos courtesy of the RAW files, and I suspect I will have the same latitude in the future with the thermal equivalent.

Frame rate is an interesting concern. I find it much easier, and quicker, to focus my 25Hz Therm-App cameras than their 9Hz brothers. Trying to maintain good focus on a moving object is quite difficult with a 9Hz frame rate.

That leads me on to focus. If you are considering using a thermal camera for 'photographic' purposes then adjustable focus is a must, which narrows the choice of devices. Any number of thermal images that would be very attractive are, in my opinion, ruined by the poor focus - either due to the limitations of the device, or because the operator didn't really understand what they were doing. Despite the remarkable things that one can do with software, sharpness really cannot be dialed-in in post!

Cost of hardware is the big stumbling block for most people, me included. I would recommend putting money into the best sensor you can buy, along with a single middle-range lens, with the idea of getting more lens options later. The smartphone 'dongle' thermal cameras generally offer good value for money, but don't have quite the same performance as the research-grade imagers. For 'photographic' use I would usually choose more pixels over accurate thermography - but at the same time it's really important to make sure the camera has good noise performance. Granted, noise reduction algorithms can help, but - as with focus - you're always better off getting the highest possible quality in the first instance.

Finally, don't forget that whatever equipment you may or may not have, image composition is key. I know I have made (and published) many badly composed images but the basic rules of composition work just the same whether you're working with paint, pencils, photography or thermography. 

I know I've rambled on, and I'm sure many others will be able to add their wisdom in far fewer words. But if anyone wants to discuss thermal photography privately, I'm happy to do so via PM and thence email.

       
 
« Last Edit: February 12, 2018, 02:45:43 pm by Ultrapurple »
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Offline mahony

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #154 on: February 25, 2018, 01:44:52 pm »
My first panorama test using the TE-Q1 with FLIR 36mm f/1.2 lens.
This is a ~3MPixel stitch with Photoshop using every 12th image from a raw video sequence exported as PNG (132 images in total). The greyscale conversion was adjusted to cut some of the real dark/bright spots to get reasonable contrast in the raw basic images. The first one is without any further processing, the second one has increased contrast and some sharpening.
 

Offline Vipitis

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #155 on: February 25, 2018, 02:44:39 pm »
these are really impressive. Was it a single pan? The noise seems to be very low, does photoshop stack images while stiching?
 

Offline Ultrapurple

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #156 on: February 25, 2018, 03:12:13 pm »
That's really nice.

Manipulating the tone curve gives the image even more punch:
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Offline Paw85

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #157 on: February 25, 2018, 04:10:06 pm »
Subject: Turbo in car (BMW 116i)
Camera: Flir "E60bx+"
Lens: 18mm f/1.3
Exposure time: 1/7s
Image manipulation: 1st panorama (Microsoft ICE) / 2nd direct from imager, 200% upscaled.
 

Offline mahony

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #158 on: February 25, 2018, 07:37:15 pm »
@Vipitis: Thanks! It was 5 or 6 sweeps. The total sequence has ~1800 images and just took every 12th without any checking of sharpness and so on. I am not sure if Photoshop does stacking. I have a quite old PS3 version which I think just blends parts of the images together. The noise actually is quite low on the TE-Q1 and I have to admit the temperature range of this shot is quite high: from ~-30°C (bare metal reflecting the cold sky) up +35°C (of sun heated black roof tops) apparent temperatures - so the noise is not really visible here.

@Ultrapurple: yes without doubt, but as I exported 8bit pngs only it did not want to push it and play very much. At some point I will try to export to 16bit tiff and stitch those together which should then give a lot more possibilities for post-processing.

I just tried the same or similar with the Lepton3 and 13mm lens but. The issue here is I had to sweep by hand w/o much control of the image and so a lot of images are blurry and it turns out that Photoshop limits to 200 images for stitching... Not too much for such small input images. Plus the images are really small and often without a lot of features to detect which makes it almost impossible to get a useful stitch. I tried quite a while but PhotoShops manual assisted stitching always crashes at some point... attached is the most I achieved with this so far. Autostitch also didn't do too good (see the second image).

Nice Turbo there ;-)

Edit: @Vipitis I actually messed up the sweeping a bit as you can see in the raw stitch of the above image (scaled down 2x).



« Last Edit: February 25, 2018, 08:08:58 pm by mahony »
 

Offline jean-paul

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #159 on: March 03, 2018, 01:37:47 pm »
Hello,

This is an interesting video with a 1.2 Giga Pixel thermal image!
 

Offline Spirit532

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #160 on: March 03, 2018, 03:21:02 pm »
With huge zoom lenses from Janos, too!
The whole thermal imaging subforum couldn't afford that setup even if we crowdfunded :D
 

Offline Vipitis

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #161 on: March 03, 2018, 03:35:31 pm »
yeah, they use a top end camera, two different lenses. And motorized pan tilt. It is like making a scanner again, but with a 1million pixel detector, and 2 hour capture time.

I like that even some people at flir are interested in a photographic approach to theraml imaging, but you can see and feel the difference from a cooled MWIR to a noise uncooled LWIR microbolometer. I wonder if they managed to stich those into radiometric images so they can apply color palettes easily.

I still want to see a super high resolution portrait with like 50MP and really really fine thermal resolution of like 10mK.
 

Online Bud

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #162 on: March 03, 2018, 04:11:38 pm »
The shape of that head on the balcony is rather weird.
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Offline Vipitis

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #163 on: March 03, 2018, 07:16:44 pm »
It's a long distance, so possible atmospheric interference. A stiching artifact, or warping from the stich. For me it looks a little like bad flir interpolation with those rainbow palettes.
 

Offline Vipitis

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #164 on: March 09, 2018, 10:47:29 pm »
So let's bring back cats. I had a room heater in the background and it made this Ironbow pallette amazing.
 

Offline Ultrapurple

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #165 on: March 10, 2018, 09:39:20 am »
Yay! Cats!

I love your idea of using a room heater as 'lighting'. You've just opened up a whole new world of experiments.  :-+

(I'm not sure that I'll be trying to persuade a cat to sit still under several kilowatts of heaters, but inanimate objects might work well).
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Offline InfraMind

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #166 on: March 10, 2018, 09:44:13 am »
cat and horse
seek thermal reveal
 

Offline Vipitis

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #167 on: March 10, 2018, 10:03:14 am »
In my case the room heater was just a tool to form the pallette so it tops out higher and only a few parts of the cat turn color.

For using heat as illumination tool, you need to check out what MyThermalWorld has posted here and on his Instagram. The combination of a green hot to white cold pallette and using a heat source to heatup your subject from one direction, results in something that seems like a tinted x-ray.

I am looking forward to your experiments, as the idea could be used for a lot of objects that don't look like anything when their temperature is about the same in normal.
 

Offline jslashr

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #168 on: March 11, 2018, 05:26:32 am »
1st pic is E30+ of my husky. The depth of field on the Exx series is impressive compared to ex
2nd is E4+ one dog had just come in from the cold outdoors
3rd is E4+ - 33 week baby inside my wifes belly, if you look closely you can see her face
4th is E4+ a cat shot to stay relevant
 

Online Bud

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #169 on: March 11, 2018, 05:36:13 am »
Now that is an interesting use case (3rd) !
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Offline MyThermalWorld

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #170 on: March 27, 2018, 08:13:04 pm »
Subject: Fresh bread for breakfast
Camera: FLIR E75
Lens: 17mm f/1.3
Image manipulation: Waifu2x upscaling, Lightroom enhancemen
« Last Edit: March 27, 2018, 08:14:48 pm by MyThermalWorld »
 
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Offline SmartInfrared

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #171 on: April 07, 2018, 06:51:26 pm »
Subject: Chevy pickup front
Camera: Fotric 226, 384x288 pixels
Lens: 28°× 21° FOV, f/1.0
Image manipulation: none, radiometric
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Offline SmartInfrared

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #172 on: April 07, 2018, 06:58:21 pm »
Bread must be very tasty  :-+

Subject: Fresh bread for breakfast
Camera: FLIR E75
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Offline Vipitis

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #173 on: May 10, 2018, 10:14:35 pm »
Posting here again, to bring pictures back into the forum - it has been text post with technical stuff for weeks, and only issues being talked about in the past. I finally got a stills camera for visual and have been spending my time there leaving thermal behind, but I have to learn about processing again and therefore I picked up the Palette Generator and played around a little:

I would prefer to not have this stupid flir radiometric jpg - but blurred image to show you here. I much prefer the rendering of the Thermal Camera+ app. I am giving you all version of the file to make the comparison on your own. Maybe it is possible to take a greyscale image and apply the palette as linear scaled LUT...
 

Offline Ultrapurple

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Re: Thermal Imaging Gallery
« Reply #174 on: May 11, 2018, 12:53:06 am »
Your first tree image has a striking beauty in a class of its own - I like it a lot and it shows that high resolution is NOT always the most important issue.

   
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