Today´s alternatives to Flir InfraCam, cost effective

[Martin72]

Hi everyone,

Since 2006 we (Testfield) use a Flir ThermalCam for failure analyzing mostly on pcbs.
I would use one for home too, with the same imaging quality.
My thoughts about it:
Yes, this one wasn´t cheap - In 2006.
Now we have 2019...

Are there any cams affordable for an hobbyist on the market, which fit the specs of this oldie but goldie ?
Say till 500€ ?
Got a seek thermal for android, it was no competion to the ThermalCam.

Any suggestions ?

Martin

[Fraser]

I personally still recommend the FLIR Exx range of cameras as they are a very capable and complete solution. IIRC the Thermacam had a Resolution of 120 x 120 pixels, manual focus and was 9fps. That would suggest you should look for a camera with at least 160 x 120 pixels. The manual focus, high quality, E30 and E40 are available at reasonable cost on the used market and may be upgraded to 320 x 240 pixel E60+ specification. Owning two such cameras, I can say that they are a joy to use. They are also high frame rate models 

Now the bad news. Your budget is a bit low for an Exx series cameras. Think more like 1000 Euros and up.
The cheaper alternatives tend to be phone dongle type solutions that I personally do not get on with. They rely on a decent host for their performance and are not, by themselves a self contained solution. They are more affordable however. Other forum members like the Therm-App and Thermal Expert dongle type cameras. Just make sure your phone is up to the required spec or you will need to add the cost of a powerful mobile phone to the purchase cost ! Sometimes you just have to bite the bullet and spend a bit more than intended to get something very special that you will not outgrow. Buy once and buy well. Buyers remorse is a killer and often leads to a further purchase and a higher end cost.

Do not turn your back on the used thermal camera market as there are some nice FLIR cameras coming onto the market as companies upgrade to the latest models. There seem to be quite a few Exx series cameras being sold recently. If buying one, look at its condition to assess whether it has been well cared for.
Upgrading the Exx series cameras to release their dormant full potential is detailed on this forum.

Fraser

[frenky]

 Check out this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/need-recommendation-flir-ets320-vs-te-q1/

[Chanc3]

Ugh, we manage a service contract for a large fleet of vessels for an oil & gas company and many of them are using ThermaCams. Full of issues such as failing triggers, firmware corruption and crappy buttons.

Fraser hit the mark though, would definitely recommend the Exx series.

[Martin72]

Check out this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/thermal-imaging/need-recommendation-flir-ets320-vs-te-q1/

The TE-Q1 Looks very interesting to me....
Only the limitation to 150°C....Resistors could getting hotter without taking a damage - So if the cam shows >150°....What will it be, 160, 180 or 220 and too much ?
Although I could measure the temp above 150 with an ordinary infrared Thermometer.
Therefore...TE-Q1....very interesting, a shop sells it actually for 599€

[frenky]

Limit to 150*C is only fictional. 
Module can measur temps over 200*C.
Android app will show max temp 150 but windows app will show actual temp.
PCB with resistors over 150 is weird because pbsn solder melts at 183...

[Martin72]

Android app will show max temp 150 but windows app will show actual temp.

Ah, ok.

PCB with resistors over 150 is weird because pbsn solder melts at 183...

We got snubber resistors with more than 190°C - They could handle it, to provide the solder for melting or the pcb for damages, those "hotties" are mounted on ceramic distance bushes.

[Miwer]

Therefore...TE-Q1....very interesting, a shop sells it actually for 599€

Interesting... would you mind sharing the shop name/address? All I could find were prices like €899/999 (non-plus/plus), which for me is a bit too much. Found a pre-owned TE-Q1 Plus from Austria on e-bay for €839, still way too much.

Br,
Miwer

[Martin72]

Hi,

Here:

https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/waermebildkamera-android-te-q1-384x288-fuer-elektronikentwicklung/1061431588-173-6273

Interesting : It´s the same dealer as in eBay.

I would buy it too, but I´m a little confused about the connection type.
Got a Motorola with USB-C.

[Vipitis]

So I have been in contact with the reseller recently to get the multiple listings cleared up. They are an electronics store in Austria, they have a website setup for ThermalExpert cameras here: https://www.thermalexpert.eu/english-1/product-overview/

currently you can get the 30hz upgrade option without additional cost through this website or get the starter sets which include the accessories kit for basically free(these are limited 1 per person).
If you want to take advantage of a cheaper listing off eBay or eBay-Kleinanzeigen, you should start the contact from there.

I am on the edge of either buying the M1 30hz for 399€ and hoping for a hackable firmware/app(the thread sadly dried out). The other option would be a used FLIR E40 for almost 3 times the price but a confirmed hack available and many more features.

[Miwer]

Here:
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-anzeige/waermebildkamera-android-te-q1-384x288-fuer-elektronikentwicklung/1061431588-173-6273

Interesting : It´s the same dealer as in eBay.

I would buy it too, but I´m a little confused about the connection type.
Got a Motorola with USB-C.

Hmm... I'm not sure I would trust that site. Is it even affiliated with eBay in any way? Also terrible rating on trustpilot... 
Thanks anyway.

[Vipitis]

 It is part of eBay for local deals in Germany. And the seller of that listing is the official European reseller for ThermalExpert so you can trust it.

[Fraser]

I can also confirm that it is part of eBay. More like a local advertisements version as people outside Germany cannot access it via eBay. I had to register again to use that eBay platform in order to buy a very nice close up lens from a great chap in Germany.

Regarding ratings, eBay is not what I would call a safe platform when it comes to crossing paths with idiots and thieves but if you use common sense you are mostly OK. The platform is just the way for buyer and seller to meet. If the seller checks out as honourable, you should have no worries dealing with them. The problem with the German local version of eBay is that it is just that .... local only. That is to say, some sellers will refuse to sell, or not at the advertised price if shipping is outside Germany. There can be regional sales agent ‘specials’ and agreements that prevent selling outside the agents country.

The best way forward is to contact the seller and discuss any concerns you may have. Let them answer your questions about their physical shop location etc.

Fraser

[Martin72]

The offer ( 599 instead 799) is only via eBay-kleinanzeigen avaible and only for mini-usb types valid, this is what he told me a few minutes ago.

[DaneLaw]

I reckon you meen Micro USB?
as "mini-usb" is that little fat fuck there is on some of my DMMs for pc support.



And yes it is con that is it micro-USB here on the edge for the long kiss goodnight to MicroUSB,, though I reckon it would be pretty straightforward to solder a based 4 to 5pin TypeC on yourself and exchange the MicroUSB. (the TypeC versions is also just USB2 std as fare I know.)
but of course better to not should mess with it to start with, so I would also prefer TypeC.

Thermal Expert is also landing new TypeC these months in their lineup and also for sale atm but not for this lower sale-price.
I don't got any of these Thermapp, Thermal Expert og Xtherm, though been in contact with some of the Chinese and Korean vendors' but is the quality-gap that big from fx Thermal expert low key Q1 to Xtherm 284-388 version both same sensor-size and recall that Xtherm have taken the leap to Type on their model. (any users got a "head to head insight" on these two very comparable models on spec and price??)
Have any user here had there hands on both and able to compare pro / cons between Xtherm's low key version and THermal Expert Q1??.

[Martin72]

The sales-manager told me to use a mini-usb to usb-c adaptor with otg, for using the cam on my Motorola smartphone.
Otherwise I could buy the usb-c model directly, but for 200 bucks additional...

[Vipitis]

There is a side by side comparison Gallery #242 (can't find the direct link on mobile...)

But note that there is difference in image processing. To me he XTherm looks better with the screenshots given.

Thanks for sharing the information, I didn't get that clarification. My current phone is microUSB and so are all the ports on my computer. I feel like it's a good offer on this presumably "old stock", but it opens mkre questions again. Are the USB-C models newer run and therefore somewhat better in components or sensor? There is never a mention of what sensor the TE-Q1 uses and not a single word about the M1 on any i3 website. There being a option for 30hz and extended temprange also tells me that the reseller has some control over the firmware, and them being able to change the window location via app update keep my hope up.

Because I will run the camera via cable and not connector directly I might not even care about micro USB or USB-C.

[guazan]

good that user would have the TE-M1 and could photos thank you.I'm in doubt of the flir one pro and TE-M1 would use it to repair phone plate.thanks.

[Martin72]

Otherwise I could buy the usb-c model directly, but for 200 bucks additional...

I had bad experience using a adapter to usb-c and then 200 more makes 800 - actually a little too much.
So my interest goes to the flir one pro.
Interesting offer  for a new one pro, but is it 3rd. gen, is it 2nd - How can I find it out ?

Martin

[guazan]

El modelo TE-M1 también esta disponible en tipo c pero no encuentro imágenes capturadas por este modelo.

[Martin72]

Ah, the TE-M1.
Both costs nearly the same, which one is "better"....

[guazan]

I do not know which one is better I'm also in doubt I do not find anything about the TE-M1 model if there is a companion that guides us.

[Martin72]

So I look around today..
I would spend up to 500€ for a thermal cam.

The "nominated" are:

Flir One Pro (USB-C)

Thermal Expert TE-M1

Seek Thermal compact pro

Chinese brand HT-18

Which of them fits best to my needings…. ( Hot spots on PCBs localizing, other electrical stuff (cables, fuses, contactors), as close as possible (nearfield) till 1...2m distance)

Martin

[Martin72]

No Suggestions ?

[PlainName]

A suggestion: if you're intending to look at PCBs then the HT-18 gun-style form factor might be difficult to utilise. The rest plug into a host phone so easier to position and look at the screen, but the downside is that they plug into a phone - you need a fast phone and the software can be somewhat finicky.

I have a TE-Q1 and it, or the software, is very fussy about the startup procedure. Additionally, the USB connection tends to be floppy, and if you have a modern phone with USB-C you're likely needing a C-micro adapter to add more floppiness... But a big advantage is you can use a cable to mount instead, and then you can position the camera part independently from the viewing part.

An alternative is the HT-A1 which has the same features and functionality as the HT-18 but is in a flat form factor. Has the advantages of the phone+camera but in a single package, so no messing about with connectors. The downside is the firmware could be better and it's (apparently) not upgradeable so what you get is what you get. But it is cheap...

Edit: I think most of those would benefit from a close-up lens for PCB work. Some have manual focus which may be enough, though.