Apple 2 PCB's anyone want one?

[rthorntn]

I ordered some of http://www.willegal.net/appleii/appleii-first_page.htm PCB's from PCBWay, I ordered 15 to get to the "cost sweet spot", this isn't so much a sale as a cost price giveaway, apologies if I should have put it in the for sale section, feel free to move it Dave.  Does anyone in AU want one, they work out to be $27 aussie?

[Ampera]

Would actually be sort of neat to have something like this, maybe to gather parts to populate it as I go along. Not in Australia, so the price sweet spot wouldn't make much sense for me, but this might be an interesting idea for a kit to put together some day to make my own Apple 2. I think I might get MTM Scientific's 5150 kit first, as I have a stronger connection to the IBM PC and compatibles, having used them all my life.

Would also make for good streaming content, but my gear is so shit, I'd probably be laughed at the moment I turned the camera on.

[austfox]

I wouldn't mind getting 1 of these. PM sent.

[EEVblog]

I'll take one thanks.
Let me know how to pay by PM or email

[MarkF]

No need
  The Apple II and two flop drives was my first computer
    I still have it
      It still works

[james_s]

I'll take one thanks.
Let me know how to pay by PM or email

I look forward to the video demonstration once you've built the thing. The Apple II is such an iconic machine, it really what kicked off the PC revolution, making computers accessible to average households.

An interesting thing I learned when a UK friend pulled an Apple II out of his attic several years ago is that the UK models only had B&W video, while the US models produced something roughly resembling NTSC color. The color graphics displayable on an ordinary TV were fairly revolutionary at the time.

[GregDunn]

I look forward to the video demonstration once you've built the thing. The Apple II is such an iconic machine, it really what kicked off the PC revolution, making computers accessible to average households.

An interesting thing I learned when a UK friend pulled an Apple II out of his attic several years ago is that the UK models only had B&W video, while the US models produced something roughly resembling NTSC color. The color graphics displayable on an ordinary TV were fairly revolutionary at the time.

Woz found that by setting up the video timing correctly and syncing it with the memory reads, he could not only get "free" memory access (most computers at that time had to steal cycles from the video generator in order to read and write to video memory) but as a bonus, he could set some of the image data bits appropriately and inject that signal into the video at a point where it nicely simulated the color burst signal of a standard NTSC TV.   Of course, the burst signal was entirely wrong for PAL video.  Changing that would have required a redesign of the hardware for each video system.  He only designed it to run through a standard US TV because it was just a clever thing he did to show his friends - it wasn't originally intended to be a product for sale worldwide...

[BradC]

An interesting thing I learned when a UK friend pulled an Apple II out of his attic several years ago is that the UK models only had B&W video, while the US models produced something roughly resembling NTSC color. The color graphics displayable on an ordinary TV were fairly revolutionary at the time.

I had a PAL RF modulator card that sat in slot 7 which gave a quite usable PAL colour output.

[ebastler]

[...] it nicely simulated the color burst signal of a standard NTSC TV.   Of course, the burst signal was entirely wrong for PAL video.  Changing that would have required a redesign of the hardware for each video system.  He only designed it to run through a standard US TV because it was just a clever thing he did to show his friends - it wasn't originally intended to be a product for sale worldwide...

Apple did modify the Apple ][ for European PAL output, launching it as the "Apple ][ Europlus". I believe this happened in the course of 1980. My machine, bought at an authorized German distributor in April 1980, is still a regular Apple ][ plus.

[barbeque]

It's really cool that there are Apple II replica PCBs - that is a lot of hard work for basically free on the part of the designer. I just got a IIe; it's in good shape except it didn't come with a disk drive (or cards) and a few of the key switches don't work.

Any plans for the case and keyboard? I remember plans to convert a PS/2 keyboard to something the II motherboard understands, but it would be interesting (if RSI-inducing) to build it with a compact laptop keyboard, maybe with a microcontroller and an I/O expander to run the matrix.

edit: Looks like the fellow who designed the replica board also makes a PS/2 -> Apple II keyboard adapter. One stop shop.

[ebastler]

Any plans for the case and keyboard? I remember plans to convert a PS/2 keyboard to something the II motherboard understands, but it would be interesting (if RSI-inducing) to build it with a compact laptop keyboard, maybe with a microcontroller and an I/O expander to run the matrix.

edit: Looks like the fellow who designed the replica board also makes a PS/2 -> Apple II keyboard adapter. One stop shop.

For me, the original Apple II keyboard is an essential part of the original look-and-feel (with a bit of quirkyness thrown in). Having the reset key right there, in the upper right corner of your keyboard, protected from accidental use only by a stiffer spring... they don't make 'em like that any more! 

Unfortunately the original keyboards are getting rare. They don't seem to age all that well, developing dead keys or randomly generated keypresses or auto-repeats. And Apple I replica builders seem to like the Apple II keyboards for their builds. I have seen the keyboards go on ebay for > $300 (actual selling price). That's a bit crazy... so using a PS/2 keyboard adapter may be the affordable way out.

[james_s]

If original keyboards are going for such high prices, perhaps it would be worth doing as another replica project? One of the varieties of Cherry keyswitches may be close enough in feel, and making a PCB with the correct layout wouldn't be difficult. Might need to get some custom keycaps printed for at least a few of the keys though.

[rthorntn]

Thats cool, the keyboard being able to support both the I and II would be nice.

[barbeque]

If original keyboards are going for such high prices, perhaps it would be worth doing as another replica project? One of the varieties of Cherry keyswitches may be close enough in feel, and making a PCB with the correct layout wouldn't be difficult. Might need to get some custom keycaps printed for at least a few of the keys though.

I am off-and-on working on adapting an existing Chinese mechanical keyboard PCB to work on an Amiga as well as USB, since the "big box" Amiga keyboard parts are becoming rare and so expensive that it's cheaper to build a whole new one.

I don't think I have the knowledge quite yet to design a keyboard PCB, and my IIe works okay except for two switches (which I just ordered for $5/10pc + shipping). In ten years, though?

It would be really cool if someone made a replacement PCB that still fit into the II/II+/IIe case but with Cherry switch spacing.

Then you could build your own - they're pretty common and there are even some cheap "compatible" options (Gaterons) that have the same footprint out there.

The Cherry stems won't fit the Apple IIe keys as far as I know, however. Wouldn't be quite the same without the same key caps, although I'm sure someone in the mechanical keyboard nerd world could get replicas made.

[helius]

Apple did modify the Apple ][ for European PAL output, launching it as the "Apple ][ Europlus". I believe this happened in the course of 1980. My machine, bought at an authorized German distributor in April 1980, is still a regular Apple ][ plus.

This is what the poster you are responding to is talking about. The Europlus is monochrome-only for System B (not "PAL"); color graphics modes were only possible through a PAL Modulator card (which has both CVBS and RF outputs on RCA connectors). Cables were provided to connect to Belling-Lee RF jacks on televisions.

[ebastler]

This is what the poster you are responding to is talking about. The Europlus is monochrome-only for System B (not "PAL"); color graphics modes were only possible through a PAL Modulator card (which has both CVBS and RF outputs on RCA connectors). Cables were provided to connect to Belling-Lee RF jacks on televisions.

Ah, you are right. Seems that the main difference in the Europlus was just the configuration for 50Hz frame rate? (Which is not "System B" though, right? "System B" in my understanding is one specific flavor of PAL, which would still include the color subcarrier, plus the definition of 50 fps, 625 lines etc.) Hmm, I need to check how my Apple II plus got its 50Hz output -- was there a solder jumper already in the US units?

The post you are referring to is BradC's, right? I.e. not the one I was quoting and responding to, but the one directly before my post. Yes, a somewhat complex PAL Encoder card was needed to generate actual PAL color output. I can't speak from personal experience here; only had a b/w TV, and upgraded to a proper monitor eventually to resolve the 80 character/line output...

[helius]

All Apple II main boards have the jumpers that can be cut/soldered to convert the output to 50 Hz (which the manual calls "CCIR" and not System B, as it is not RF modulated. There is no RF modulator on the Apple II board either). Apple II and II+ are also the same thing: the difference was which BASIC ROM you got, Integer or Applesoft (the latter was licensed from Microsoft and had floating point).