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Products => 3D printing => Topic started by: metrologist on September 05, 2017, 02:04:42 am

Title: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on September 05, 2017, 02:04:42 am
I contracted a 3D illness this weekend and was watching videos covering some popular models, such as CR-10 and Tevo Little Monster. Are they worth considering yet?

The CR-10 almost always has good reviews, the Tevo was a bit mixed, but I kind of like the build of that one.

Any thoughts or suggestions? It's not something for which I have a direct need, just an interest, and it would mostly be for functional / somewhat structural parts, to complement my metal machine shop.

And to add, I really have no insight into the nuances of 3D printing, such as the types of heads, software workflows, etc. - just what I gleaned from an afternoon on youtube...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Rerouter on September 05, 2017, 03:45:16 am
Cant say anything about the models you suggested as i've never seen them

Main points:
Set aside a few hours after you have it set up and properly calibrate / level the thing, auto-leveling is a bit of a crutch, (I have a G2S Pro but would only recommend it to machinists willing to length match the diagonal rods and resurface the build plate)

Your build plate should be rigid, if its mounted on springs, ditch them and make it a rigid mount, otherwise the leveling will change 5 times a day

Any adjustment screws for endstops should have a locking nut to make sure they cannot move, these things jerk and vibrate all over the place.

Printers with longer "Bowden" tubes, (The tube that feeds the filament) need the larger filament rolls, those hand sized 500g rolls will curl too much for the motors to handle

The retract length is very easy to find, with it cold and filament stuck in print head, press the filament release, push the filament down the tube lightly, mark it against the top of the tube, then tug it and measure the difference, this is your exact retraction

Each filament, even different colours from the same manufacturer will have slightly different working temperatures

They are slow if your aiming for bigger than your hand.

For PLA, uniform cooling of the printed material makes everything better.


To clarify on the springs and locking nuts, I have on multiple occasions thrown my cheap chinese delta in the car to drive around to someone elses house, plugged it in, and it just works
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: sokoloff on September 05, 2017, 11:54:43 am
Set aside a few hours after you have it set up and properly calibrate / level the thing, auto-leveling is a bit of a crutch,
I strongly agree with this point (and the rest of @Rerouter's post), but I'd modify it slightly to say:
Get the printer, get it roughly setup, and screw around with it for a few weekends. Print some crap. Have fun.

Then print a dial indicator holder for your particular printer, buy a dial indicator, and go through a detailed setup and calibration process. Plan to spend the better part of a full day doing it.

First use the dial indicator to tram the bed and get it precisely square to the X-Y plane. You can certainly get it within 0.002", but can probably get it within 0.001". Anything inside of 0.004" (0.1mm) will produce "OK" results, but the better you can get it trammed, the less aggravation you'll have later. Tram the bed with the machine at operating temperature (including a hot hotplate if you have one); be careful.

I used something like this (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1388496), this (https://www.harborfreight.com/1-inch-travel-machinists-dial-indicator-623.html), this (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1637), this (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1363023), and something like this guide (http://print.theporto.com/posts/how-to-calibrate-your-3d-printer-for-accurate-printing/) (though that's not the exact guide I remember using) and this guide (http://www.sailfishfirmware.com/doc/tuning-slicer-calibration.html) (that one I did use). (None of those are affiliate links or anything that I'm connected to.)

Print the complex test object above before you start and then again when you're done to get a sense of how much improvement you were able to achieve.

When printing, use skirt always. I print ABS directly on clean Kapton tape (usually without any or with very little ABS/acetone slurry).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Rerouter on September 05, 2017, 12:57:13 pm
A dial indicator is a little overkill in my books, but be aware its a mechanical system. so tolerances will show you up if you don't account for them.

A fair bit of this is in relation to Delta Printers, but the ascpects overlap.

So as a simple start, a commercial kit or printer will generally not have an error in the angle of the vertical rods, (120 degrees), Its hard to measure and the influence from it is tiny. More likely your rods may not be quite parallel to each other, this causes binding or resistance in the carriages as they move up and down. which causes failures that may be dependent on temperate or minute changes.

Next in the chain is the carriages that travel up and down the vertical rods, depending on the bearings used they can rock side to side, in or out, etc, for a number of these, you can bias the bearing holders to reduce this motion, It is a source of backlash, and sadly most devices don't place the pivot for the diagonal rods at the center of rotation of the carriages, this alone would mostly eliminate it. you may see modders making carriages with more than 2 bearings to remove it, but biasing accomplishes the same task

Ok moving on the diagonal rods, My cheap choice of printer has had the majority of people recieve different length rods, due to the geometry of a delta if they are not very similar in length its impossible to make its travel level, a quick way to see if this is the case without disassembling a delta is to have it move along the A,B and C axis's of travel, the print head should not rotate at all. These rods are also where a number of people have tired to hunt down backlash, generally by rubber banding them, where in reality there issue is generally the metal pieces that attach to the sleeve bearing are not the right length and just need a nick of a file to bring rigid.

And finally all that's left in the middle is the print head plate. the lower the mass here, the less backlash and overshoot on fast direction changes your likely to see, dont go crazy, but lower weight here can mean a faster average print speed without issues like speed wobble as the motion rings out for a few mm past a 90 degree corner. Generally I havent seen things go wrong here, but a metal piece will last far longer than plastic as the hot end will deform it over time.


Ok so moving on to calibration. Delta's are a little hard to visualize at first glance, its part of what makes the math so weird, but in general as long as the build area is dead flat, and secured rigidly, it being perpendicular to the rods is not so critical, 2-3mm out of plane to the vertical rods can be calibrated out just by the end stops.

Ok, so first up, a Delta's true axis's of motion are A, B and C, towards and away from each tower, there may be a Y axis or and X axis depending on your machine but there is never both, 1 is just calculated. as such calibrating on X and Y axis only hides a lot of the information the movement is trying to tell you.

The first thing I adjust on a delta is its tramming per axis, You move it from one end of a towers axis and back again, noting which end it was out of tram, if it was low towards the tower, you want the end stop position higher, and vice verse, you will likely have to run through this step on each axis a few times in a circle, as it does slightly effect the other axis's as you tram one, but it does converge pretty quickly,

Next up is the Delta Radius, The math to convert a delta's radius based motion to XYZ is based upon an assumed radius of motion, If this radius is too high, the print head will raise towards the center of the build area, and fall towards the outside, and vice versa, most open source printer controllers (marlin or repeater firmware) let you correct this, generally saved to eeprom or by uploading a revised program over USB

And finally is build volume height, rather than touch your carefully adjusted end stops, instead lock them down and just tell the printer its taller or shorter to raise or lower the nozzle to the surface.

Now at this point i would always print a filled 1 layer high circle as a confirmation, generally by eye, looking at how translucent a printed piece is you can spot extremely tiny errors, on the level of a few microns, as the amount of smoosh between adjacent lines changes. this allows for some final small tweaking in.

At this point you should be ready to print something to tolerance, PLA loves cooling, ABS loves heating, for pla get some painters tape and a UHU glue stick, smear a very thin layer of the glue over the tape and you will be set, I've done well over 200 prints without applying new glue or changing the tape (I will eventually need to change it, its starting to discolour) For ABS, go with Kapton tape, a mist of Acetone on the build plate a minute or 2 before printing generally gets the level of adhesion i need (trace amounts of abs still embedded on kapton)

Things to be aware of, When you first run filament through a hot end, it will come running out at you, same for when it heats up to temp the expansion will cause some to shoot out the hot end, this is normal, if you can hear it sizzling, its either quite moist (humidity) or your running it too hot, for PLA humidity is generally fine, for ABS its more of a pain in interlayer bonding, so those rolls should be stored with a desiccant if your not using it for more than 2 weeks,

You will through a little bit of trial and error stumble upon the correct speed and temp for a given filament, e.g. the PLA i use reguarly, the white is 217C for speeds up to 50mm/s ramping up to 230C if i wanted to get to 85mm/s (the heat needs to fully melt the center of the filament), while the Black PLA i use, melts just fine at 182C, but I cannot run it faster than 30mm/s without crazy stringing, In both cases it relates to viscosity, but there will generally be a sweet spot that works best for you, both these filaments came shipped as (195C), but its never exact in my experiences.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: thm_w on September 05, 2017, 09:14:30 pm
You don't need a dial indicator as the tevo has a bltouch (a switch that can probe the bed, to calibrate most aspects of the unit).

But don't get a delta unless you are willing to put the work in, and treat it as a bit of a hobby. If you only care about how cool it looks (I felt the same way), and its within your budget, then get it.
If you want minimal screwing around, get something like a prusa i3 mk2 (looks similar to the CR-10). Although that his a kit as well, it should go together simpler, and less chance of QA issues.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on September 06, 2017, 02:26:17 am
Thanks for all the detail. I'm still back here at the pondering stage and working through which style (Cartesian vs Delta) I'd investigate further.

The lion's share of what I see coming off of the the inexpensive printers does not interest me, but then I come across a few videos where folks produce something like a workable nylon gear and other somewhat structural ABS parts. I saw a review of the Tevo by both RCLifeON and GreatScott with drastically different results, so then I wonder how much is dependent on the operator and setup vs just getting lucky once in a while?

From what I gather, a Delta style printer is more finicky and suffers some kind of "salmon skin" effect, but typically offers more printing volume at significantly increased speed. The Tevo also supposedly can print all of the common filaments and has a hotter bed than many of the inexpensive Cartesian models, but i do not necessarily need it to be the cheapest option.

I seem to have gotten caught up in the maker type crowd and many of the reviews come from donated machines, so the users may have limited insight or otherwise biased. I'm just amazed at how many different makes and manufacturers there are now.

What about the different head/nozzle designs? I saw one product that had electronic circuit or "smart" nozzles. Reminded me of HP smart ink heads and cartridges. Anyway, there are probably some basic elements that are to be avoided and some that would be desired, and worth paying more to have.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Muttley Snickers on September 06, 2017, 09:28:45 am
I'm yet to be afflicted by the bug and have enough on my plate already with projects and other stuff to finish first, anyway I watched a video yesterday  where Keith Fenner assembled and had a play with a 3D printer which was given to him by Bang Good, the video is a bit long winded at an hour and three quarters but I don't mind Keith so I watched it all through.

I'm not up to speed on these to make any real judgement but from what I saw they do appear to be somewhat flimsy, others will know whether these types of machines are any good or worth the effort and I expect that Keith will tell it like it is after he becomes more familiar with these products.

Keith Fenner 3D Printer
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i_osfu0QeM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4i_osfu0QeM)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Rerouter on September 06, 2017, 01:03:10 pm
I have been using mine for engineering level stuff, PLA is stupidly strong when you get above 3mm wall thickness's, oddly 95% infil is much stronger than 100% as it can bend a lot more before permanent deformation,

Things i have designed and printed

18,800RPM 1.8L wine bottle radial centrifuge (wall thickness of the plastic was 5.1mm, any less and it would shatter from a speed wobble), estimated acceleration was in the ballpark of 20,000G's

Screw Clamps for science glassware

Replacement Gears for Paper Shredder (This was mostly a challenge to learn my CAD tools, nothing like inclined curved teeth to confuse a newbie)

Various Test Enclosures.

High power DC motor Mounting clamps, so i can use a commonly available motor and bolt it in place.

95% of a quadcopters frame, Every time i broke something, i just modeled it up, printed out a new one and was flying the next day. (also a few sacrificial bits of armour)




Most delta's without some level of cross bracing will wobble a little up the top, but unless your printing something quite tall it generally does not effect the dimensions.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: jfr on September 06, 2017, 03:32:46 pm
After watching some reviews I finally got the CR-10. I've been watching the printers off and on for a while and finally decided to bite the bullet.

It's a pretty decent machine. I need want one to do some quick and dirty prototyping and parts generation. I've since realised that some of the 'issues' people have had with 3D printers are them being overly picky. These sub $500 machines have better output than the "you need special permission" machines we had in college in the early 2000s. Some of the reviewers want a replicator.

The self leveling is a bit overkill IMHO. I got some feeler gauges and balanced the 4 corners and replaced the warped glass plate with a mirror tile.

One of the biggest selling points was that it was already mostly assembled. I had a print going in under an hour. While I sometimes enjoy mucking around with electronics and DIY projects I wanted a "print me this thing" device and for that the CR-10 is perfect. After some minimal configuration I printed a near perfect benchy: http://www.3dbenchy.com/ (http://www.3dbenchy.com/) I'll usually run a build a day. One off toys for my son, RaspPi cases, Ardunio Cases, etc. Mostly stuff I find on thingiverse.

There are quite a few questionable design decisions and home made improvements that the users have found. The facebook group is fairly active to help. I'm probably going to knock off the design and make my brother one for Christmas rolling in the build improvements.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on September 06, 2017, 07:59:13 pm
Muttley, that's funny you found Fenner's video. I skimmed the first part of it and then went off looking for info on that model, and ended up finding RCLifeON's review- where he said the CR-10 was better. If the code works it would only be ~$10 more for it too, but I would not mind a build project. I also found the3dprintingnerd had some videos about the Tevo delta and succumbed to an hour+ live stream for community help - contrast that with RCLifeON's review of the Tevo (and what's with the stepper motor dangling in the air over the head?).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzF5YnUuN4Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzF5YnUuN4Q)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbmdwBwm7BU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbmdwBwm7BU)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0ihx9_1iFY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X0ihx9_1iFY)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKc5NDRzTKo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kKc5NDRzTKo)

a point by volume
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atu3L6MieLA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atu3L6MieLA)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiaHHB2kvIc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CiaHHB2kvIc)

Then there is the Makers Muse

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZn-5leg_q0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZn-5leg_q0)

Moer?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: branadic on July 21, 2018, 12:11:55 pm
Hi,

I know this thread is somewhat old, but it's a good place to talk about Anycubic Photon. We brought one of this 3D printers, that is currently running at around 450€ on ebay, just for testing if this is any good.
We do have a Prusa FDM printer for mounting tools, prototype cases and such.We also do have a Prodways DLP printer for more advanced stuff, with some high performance material, that we use for injection mold inserts, 3D substrates where we attach tracks to realize 3D circuits and novel sensors. So we are used to handle DLP printed parts and messing with IPA but also familiar with the smell of the resins, so the 3D printing lab does have air ventilation etc.
And now we do have this really amazing bit of kit. I don't want to make any promotion, but this is a wonderful addition to what we already have at hand. Instead of printing avatars and similar sort of stuff this is a wonderful, precise and fast way to get specific prototype cases, mounting tools, holders of very good quality instead of sausage printers, even though you can get ceramic filaments, that can be sintered afterwards. The only drawback is the somewhat poor sclicer software, with it's poor capabilities of auto placing support structures.

Someone over here who uses Anycubic Photon for electronic developement to share experience and knowledge?

-branadic-
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on July 22, 2018, 04:43:08 am
Hi,

very nice selection of Printers   8)

as my recent acquisition CR-10S gets in the groove maybe it is time for either a dedicated thread on 3D printers and using them for Techie (non skull and statues  ::) ) uses? I got mine for Cases, mounts and similar uses rather than decorative too.

The Resin Print Technology looks great for precision work but to messy for non continuous use yet IMO. I am sure you have done it but there is some really good info on the Anycubic on YouTube too.

First slightly complex print off my CR-10S - new fang fan mount. Slightly melty at 220C so a little lower temp now.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 22, 2018, 12:39:36 pm
I suspect your retractions are a little low.. Pesky bowden.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on July 22, 2018, 01:00:04 pm
Lots to learn and variables to play with. The Fang works a treat with a noticeable improvement on a Test Benchy. Also much more visibility over the stock setup on the lower layers.

Working on top mounting the extruder and remote mounting the spools above that to straighten the bowden a little. The Braces are actually on the printer to stiffen the Z axis to help that work better along with taller prints.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: NiHaoMike on July 22, 2018, 03:15:33 pm
as my recent acquisition CR-10S gets in the groove maybe it is time for either a dedicated thread on 3D printers and using them for Techie (non skull and statues  ::) ) uses? I got mine for Cases, mounts and similar uses rather than decorative too.
A forum for 3D printing and CNC would be a good idea. Who else agrees?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: all_repair on July 22, 2018, 04:16:37 pm
 Get a magnetic base so you can peel off the print easily.  You can paste your blue tape on the magentic base further to prolong their life.  I cut my thumb badly when removing a print that was stuck to the bed before I got the magnetic base.  The cut needed 7 stitches, cost me the price of a 3D printer.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: NiHaoMike on July 22, 2018, 04:59:47 pm
A magnetic build plate is standard with the Prusa MK2.5 and MK3. Not sure why other manufacturers like Creality aren't getting onboard with that. Maybe patents?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on July 22, 2018, 11:46:05 pm
I thought the Prusa was Open Source? There are issues with 'most' magnets and elevated temperatures if you are going DIY and Spring Steel sheets will be a PITA to get in small quantities of the correct gauge.

I had a few test prints come unstuck so I went to tape as I have a stack of it around and it seems reliable. The Hairspray I got locally was rubbish and no one in town sells glu stick (small town issues). I will get away from Tape and look at other surfaces in time. Santa has promised me an Ender 3 so worst case I will have to wait a bit ;D

Seems I got out of bed to early the overnight print needs a little more cooking  :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on July 23, 2018, 02:49:22 am
Levelling the bed is something that will make you tear your hair out at first, but also something you'll quickly learn the knack of. Rather than lengthy levelling and relevelling, many people can even adjust things on the fly during the first layer. If you add a brim to your print you're set before the actual print starts.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: NiHaoMike on July 23, 2018, 03:16:55 am
The MK3 auto levels when starting a print. Some other printers like the CR-10s can be upgraded to do the same.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on July 23, 2018, 03:26:25 am
The MK3 auto levels when starting a print. Some other printers like the CR-10s can be upgraded to do the same.
You don't really need it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on July 23, 2018, 03:50:42 am
I did break out the Moore and Wright squares, Calipers, Dial indicators and levels before turning the power on partly as my printer arrived as a CR-10 with the later arrival of the upgrade 10S kit. I also fitted X & Y stepper dampers  :)

Plenty of loose wheels, belts and a mixed bag of screw tensions (or lack of  :palm: ) initially but starting square and level makes any CNC easier.

So Bed leveling didn't present to many issues. Auto bed leveling looks like a nice add on particularly if you are running the printer hard or running a bunch for light production.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on July 24, 2018, 03:06:00 am
Nearly 17 Hours and 84% into a print - LEVEL SHIFT  |O

Pub O'Clock  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on July 24, 2018, 11:02:40 am
Nearly 17 Hours and 84% into a print - LEVEL SHIFT  |O

Pub O'Clock  :popcorn:
That's the proper 3d printing experience.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on July 24, 2018, 11:56:17 am
Been to the big smoke and got some glue stick today so I am running some tests back on glass only with a small brim - so far so good  :)

After I dropped the support materials off the failure I think it while ugly will do the job (top brackets for the frame brace) and seems stiff enough. I will reprint it sometime later most likely.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: aargee on July 24, 2018, 12:06:42 pm
I use glass and hairspray, works a treat. Mostly printing in PLA and TPU.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: ANTALIFE on July 25, 2018, 02:03:02 am
+1 for Prusa i3 MK3, since changing to this printer from Makerfarm i3v I have to say printing is a breeze.

The MK3 has an auto bed leveling function before you start each print so all you have to do is slice your model and hit go, rather than fluff around for 10-20min making sure your 1st layer is good enough to continue.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on July 25, 2018, 08:38:46 am
+1 for Prusa i3 MK3, since changing to this printer from Makerfarm i3v I have to say printing is a breeze.

The MK3 has an auto bed leveling function before you start each print so all you have to do is slice your model and hit go, rather than fluff around for 10-20min making sure your 1st layer is good enough to continue.
In my experience you only need to mess around with levelling for that long when you just start out. After a few prints you simply tweak the level when the printer is laying down the brim.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: branadic on July 25, 2018, 07:52:53 pm
Since we started to work with Anycubic Photon the big question was, what is the Best Slicing Strategy for SLA / DLP 3d Printer (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7eZWHUOhoAw). This little video I found after a while on youtube perfectly represents the experiences we made during the first days.

The 250ml green resin that was coming with the printer was used up very quickly. So we turned over to gray resin and that seems to be more tolerant with the same parameters given in the upper video.

Next question is, are there alternative and maybe cheaper resins that could be used? I think this is the most interesting question in combination with what are the best settings for it on Anycubic Photon? A first experience can be found on Monocure3d Rapid Clear Resin - Quality and best printing settings (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9H3unWZZKjM). Sharing this information with the community is one of the golden keys and many people could benefit from it.

For example, there are castable resins (http://www.3dgarage.it/4/bluecast_3799359.html) for 405nm available, that could be interesting for certain projects, but that haven't been tested on Anycubic Photon yet.

And there are also ceramic resins available for 405nm, that can be burned after printing for higher temperature applications.

-branadic-
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on July 28, 2018, 03:03:50 am
Uhu Powered Stick  :-+

Much nicer than tape even as a newbie. Small brim and so far nothing has come unstuck or warped on PLA with a 50 degree bed. Makers Muse test print without supports in progress.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on August 01, 2018, 10:58:56 am
Couple of 'failures' trying Vase mode to make a lampshade. I think a soft glowing LED lamp inside the trimmed bits might be in order  :)

Also trying out sli3er Prusa Edition and like in much more than the sli3er.org vesion  :-\ Interesting just how differently they slice some of the layers using the identical config file.

Just to confuse my Brain (not difficult) I have also downloaded Ideamaker too.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Fred27 on August 01, 2018, 01:57:35 pm
Thanks for linking to those videos branadic. I'm considering an Anycubic Photon at the moment.

As I tend to make structural rather than decorative pieces, how easy is it to get accurate dimensions? I saw 7.1% shrinkage mentioned for one resin. That can't be right - it would be almost unusable.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CJay on August 01, 2018, 02:46:13 pm
All this mention of glue sticks made me realise what's on the build bed of my Flashforge, now I need to work out how to get rid of the stuff.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: janoc on August 01, 2018, 03:39:20 pm
All this mention of glue sticks made me realise what's on the build bed of my Flashforge, now I need to work out how to get rid of the stuff.

If it is the usual cheap PVA glue, just wash it off with water. That glue is water soluble. If it is an old residue, let it soak for a few minutes and then use a normal Scotch-Brite kitchen sponge - it cleans right off.

I personally prefer this to hair spray and such because the glue stick goes only where needed and not everywhere like the aerosol (e.g. gumming up the linear bearings or lead screws). It is also easier to clean off.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CJay on August 01, 2018, 05:48:05 pm
If it is the usual cheap PVA glue, just wash it off with water. That glue is water soluble. If it is an old residue, let it soak for a few minutes and then use a normal Scotch-Brite kitchen sponge - it cleans right off.

I think it was glue stick or maybe PVA (I'm not sure that's water soluble when cured?) Two minutes under a tap with a srubbing brush and it's all gone, lovely clean blue printing bed now and the first print of the day is about to start to see if it sticks.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Muxr on August 01, 2018, 06:15:57 pm
I upgraded from my Printrbot Simple Metal to CR-10 about 6 months ago. I didn't have a heated bed on the PSM and the upgrade would have been just as much as getting a new printer. So I said WTH, I'll just get the CR-10 which people were raving about. Heated bed really helps with eliminating warping and in my opinion is a must for 3D printing these days.

Quite happy with the purchase. I was in business printing fairly quickly, after about 5 tries to print using Slic3r and Cura, I bit the bullet and gave Simplify3D a try. They already have the CR-10 profiles pre-set perfectly. And it's a very nice product I highly recommend. It's a few extra dollars you have to spend but it's really worth it in my opinion.

First few things I printed which were an absolute must were larger print bed leveling knobs. The one that come with the printer are painful to use. At some point I will do the auto leveling mod because I find leveling a pain. I mess it up every once in a while an having to cancel a print and start a new one is annoying. Although to be honest it really isn't a big deal.

My workflow looks like this:

- Fusion360 or SolidPython: Depending on the complexity of part I have to make I use these two tools to design my 3D objects.

- Simplify3D.. this is where I convert the STL I designed into .gcode for the printer. With all the settings Simplify3D allows. Simplify3D has a really nice interface for supports. So it's really easy adding supports to difficult to print shapes.

- RaspberryPi (1st gen) running OctoPrint.. it lets me control the printer wirelessly (I had this in my previous setup with Printerbot so I just used it with CR-10. I highly recommend using a 3d print server) It is much easier using the web interface than having to navigate the UI on the printer itself. I just upload my .gcode files and print from a web interface.

- CR-10, mostly stock. Only change I made to it as I mentioned was the large autoleveling knobs and some zip ties to hold the PSU from falling since it's by the edge of my desk. Two upgrades I am looking to make are the new Noctua fan for the PSU and the autoleveling mod.

- I tried bunch of different hairsprays to keep the prints stuck to the glass and I found Aqua Net Extra Super Hold Professional Hair Spray is by far the best one. Ever since I started using it I never had a part come unglued from the glass. I just wash the glass with some warm water and detergent between prints.

What do I think about CR-10? The hype is real. For the price you get a very nice printing platform. The community behind it also large and very helpful.. there are tons of upgrades and mods you can make to the printer.

For my personal needs I only wish it was a bit smaller, because bench space is at a premium but on the other hand it is nice knowing I can do larger prints if need arises.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: janoc on August 01, 2018, 07:23:49 pm
If it is the usual cheap PVA glue, just wash it off with water. That glue is water soluble. If it is an old residue, let it soak for a few minutes and then use a normal Scotch-Brite kitchen sponge - it cleans right off.

I think it was glue stick or maybe PVA (I'm not sure that's water soluble when cured?) Two minutes under a tap with a srubbing brush and it's all gone, lovely clean blue printing bed now and the first print of the day is about to start to see if it sticks.

The cheap white glue sticks (UHU and similar) for gluing paper and similar are all PVA-based glues. All water soluble. Some are even marketed as "washable". It is the same stuff as "Elmer's glue".

PVA is even used as a water-soluble support material for 3D printing - instead of laboriously removing the support material (and risking damage to the print) you let it soak and then wash it out.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: NiHaoMike on August 01, 2018, 08:56:46 pm
- CR-10, mostly stock. Only change I made to it as I mentioned was the large autoleveling knobs and some zip ties to hold the PSU from falling since it's by the edge of my desk. Two upgrades I am looking to make are the new Noctua fan for the PSU and the autoleveling mod.
The Noctua fans are highly overrated for that application. Something much cheaper like a Cooler Master fan would work at least as well and you won't be able to tell the difference since the stepper motors are what make the most noise.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: branadic on August 01, 2018, 09:51:13 pm
Thanks for linking to those videos branadic. I'm considering an Anycubic Photon at the moment.

As I tend to make structural rather than decorative pieces, how easy is it to get accurate dimensions? I saw 7.1% shrinkage mentioned for one resin. That can't be right - it would be almost unusable.

Can't answer for the moment as we found out that our z-axis is misaligned in almost each direction. We need to fix this issue first, before I can make any statement on shrinkage und dimensional accuracy/mismatch. You won't see this issue when printing figures, but if you go into functional parts you see every imperfection that happened during assembly of the printer.
I wonder that noone else out there documented this issue before.

-branadic-
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Muxr on August 01, 2018, 09:54:45 pm
- CR-10, mostly stock. Only change I made to it as I mentioned was the large autoleveling knobs and some zip ties to hold the PSU from falling since it's by the edge of my desk. Two upgrades I am looking to make are the new Noctua fan for the PSU and the autoleveling mod.
The Noctua fans are highly overrated for that application. Something much cheaper like a Cooler Master fan would work at least as well and you won't be able to tell the difference since the stepper motors are what make the most noise.
You're right of course. But I like Noctua and have been using them on all my gear for years. The fan in question isn't that expensive: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009NQLT0M/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B009NQLT0M/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on August 01, 2018, 11:24:58 pm
Since changing my CR-10 to the Fang cooler the heat break fan is running a little quieter as it now has no intake shrouding and isn't contained in a metal resonance chamber ;)

Stepper Dampers on X and Y are a must do IMO and should really be fitted as standard from the factory. Creality's Aliexpress Store sells them just need to be nudged to fit them on new units :horse:

Touch PLA/wood the Lamp shade is at 57% (12 hours) and running nicely. Interesting even with it in vase mode on the Prusa sli3er it is breaking that on some layers to add a series of secondary supports at the points :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on August 02, 2018, 08:50:06 am
 :phew: 22 Hours Later and a very nervous 28mm Hole drilled in the base.

Not where it is going to live but the light and dark variations depending on viewing angle works great with a 5W LED globe inside. 210mm Tall and about 150mm diameter.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CJay on August 03, 2018, 03:21:47 pm

The cheap white glue sticks (UHU and similar) for gluing paper and similar are all PVA-based glues. All water soluble. Some are even marketed as "washable". It is the same stuff as "Elmer's glue".

PVA is even used as a water-soluble support material for 3D printing - instead of laboriously removing the support material (and risking damage to the print) you let it soak and then wash it out.

Well it came off nicely when I scrubbed it (fairly gently) under the tap, you're right PVA is water soluble, I really thought it wasn't, tried a few prints, some lifted, some stuck, no immediately obvious pattern so I gave it a second scrub with IPA and now things seem to be sticking to the bed nicely.

I've ordered a pack of replacement 'blue' stuff for the bed, precut squares, so I've got spares but I don't think it wears out?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: janoc on August 03, 2018, 03:58:53 pm

Well it came off nicely when I scrubbed it (fairly gently) under the tap, you're right PVA is water soluble, I really thought it wasn't, tried a few prints, some lifted, some stuck, no immediately obvious pattern so I gave it a second scrub with IPA and now things seem to be sticking to the bed nicely.

I've ordered a pack of replacement 'blue' stuff for the bed, precut squares, so I've got spares but I don't think it wears out?

The tape will always wear out and get damaged over time. The blue stuff is a normal masking tape you can get cheaply in any hardware store, certainly much cheaper than the rip-off prices people charge when the "for 3D printing" label is used.

I personally prefer the glue - it is much easier to put on and clean up than tape and works also for ABS. Tape is not really  good for ABS.

After cleaning the glue off you should degrease the bed - IPA or even normal alcohol will work fine.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: branadic on August 03, 2018, 10:44:18 pm
Thanks for linking to those videos branadic. I'm considering an Anycubic Photon at the moment.

As I tend to make structural rather than decorative pieces, how easy is it to get accurate dimensions? I saw 7.1% shrinkage mentioned for one resin. That can't be right - it would be almost unusable.

Can't answer for the moment as we found out that our z-axis is misaligned in almost each direction. We need to fix this issue first, before I can make any statement on shrinkage und dimensional accuracy/mismatch. You won't see this issue when printing figures, but if you go into functional parts you see every imperfection that happened during assembly of the printer.
I wonder that noone else out there documented this issue before.

-branadic-

Disassembled z-axis aluminium profile today. Instead of milling the surface of the profile they just have sawn and filed it. No big wonder that the    mounting surface was skewed. Corrected for that (had to remove 0.2mm to get an angled surface), mounted everything together and checked geometry of the profile in respect to the red platform and the display. However, the printer still doesn't produce geometric correct parts. Need to dig into that further next week, there is still a systemetic error that needs to be found.

-branadic-
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: aandrew on August 04, 2018, 01:50:21 am
This is a timely post. I *just* (as in yesterday) received a Creality Ender 3. I've had an M3D for about a half year before that and a half-built Prusa i2 that has been collecting dust for what I think is the last four years now.

I am *amazed* at how good this printer is, right out of the box! I can only assume that they have built it, calibrated it, then took it apart for shipping. Zero backlash, dimensionally accurate and almost zero tweaking. The M3D is garbage compared to it, and I bet I'd have been futzing with that old i2 for another year to get to this kind of print output.

The only things I did were to print a couple of filament guides to help prevent the filament from having sharp bends before it enters the extruder, and a better cooling fan guide for the printed material. Oh, and I picked up a small square cut of mirror from the local glass shop ($16) for the print bed, as the aluminum bed it has is warped, which is common. I'm very, very seriously impressed with this printer. It was CAD$325 shipped free (amazon prime). Took about an hour from unboxing to printing.

What I'm currently printing (as I type this):

(https://i.imgur.com/t5QQE7L.jpg)

(https://i.imgur.com/qJFXCtJ.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on August 04, 2018, 03:51:42 am

The cheap white glue sticks (UHU and similar) for gluing paper and similar are all PVA-based glues. All water soluble. Some are even marketed as "washable". It is the same stuff as "Elmer's glue".

PVA is even used as a water-soluble support material for 3D printing - instead of laboriously removing the support material (and risking damage to the print) you let it soak and then wash it out.

Well it came off nicely when I scrubbed it (fairly gently) under the tap, you're right PVA is water soluble, I really thought it wasn't, tried a few prints, some lifted, some stuck, no immediately obvious pattern so I gave it a second scrub with IPA and now things seem to be sticking to the bed nicely.

I've ordered a pack of replacement 'blue' stuff for the bed, precut squares, so I've got spares but I don't think it wears out?

Have a look around on youtube for using PVA for dis-solvable supports for 3D printing (dual extrusion printers). Much happier with Glu Stick without the tape and I got a bottle of Elmers branded glue to water down and try as a mist on the bed.

Mmmm Ender 3 I 'need' a second printer  >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: branadic on August 08, 2018, 04:55:20 pm
Thanks for linking to those videos branadic. I'm considering an Anycubic Photon at the moment.

As I tend to make structural rather than decorative pieces, how easy is it to get accurate dimensions? I saw 7.1% shrinkage mentioned for one resin. That can't be right - it would be almost unusable.

After some tests we performed I can now state something to the dimensional accuracy, even though test's are still in progress.
First of all, z-axis was fully misaligned. So we disassambled z-axis and found that the mounting surface looked like it was sawn and filed and thus fully out of angle.  :palm: We removed 0.2mm with the milling maschine, reassembled the z-axis and it's now perfectly in angle to the red anodized platform in each direction. Anycubic should have spend this little step during their fabrication of the printer  :--
We then started our tests. Test object is a cube with 10mm feed size arranged in 8 different angles on the plattform, with an 8mm circle being 1mm deep on one of the surfaces, an equal-sided triangle of 8mm height with 1mm depth as well as an indication number on a third surface. These cubes were sliced with the following parameters:
- layer thickness (mm): 0.05
- normal exposure time (s):10
- Off time (s): 6.5
- Bottom exposure time (s): 50
- Bottom layer: 8
- Raft: 1mm + 1mm support structures
- Resin: Anycubic Gray

What we found so far is, that there is a compression of the part in z-direction of ~0.41µm per layer, resulting in an overall compression of the printed part of 170µm along 20.7mm length. The website states a z-accuracy of 1.25µm, but it's not mentioned wether this is an absolut accuracy or a relative accuracy. I guess it's the latter and means that the deviation per layer adds to a total error that we observe.
Since there is currently no possibility to correct for that by an average offset error per layer we can't compensate for that.
We have a last test running right know. We found a spreadsheet about Anycubic Photon Resin Settings (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1crvzMnt_8NJXAsABinoIhcOjE8l3h7s0L82Zlh1vkL8/edit#gid=0). So we changed parameters to values given in the spreadsheet today and started the job:
- layer thickness (mm): 0.035
- normal exposure time (s):14
- Off time (s): 1
- Bottom exposure time (s): 90
- Bottom layer: 8

We will see how that turns out tomorrow. If nothing helps we will contact Anycubic for support and ask for a new firmware with the additional average offset value per layer, which would be a neat feature as you only have to print a dimensional part, measure the difference and divide the difference by the number of layers you printed.

-branadic-
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Fred27 on August 09, 2018, 06:09:07 pm
Thanks. I ended up getting a Photon as managed to snap one up for £350 (about 390 Euro) new on eBay. In fact it's printing its first test print now - the lattice cube - just to rule out any user error in slicing / orientation etc.

Next will be reference cube(s) to check dimensions. I like your idea about varying orientations. Then I might try a gear bearing (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:53451), which I'm tempted to try printing flat without support despite that not being the usual way to do thing for SLA/DLP.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on August 11, 2018, 10:40:48 am
Not Electronics 'yet' but I am overhauling a couple of my older Large Coffee Grinders to include some modern smarts (timers, counters etc) and new hoppers.

Enter 3D printing, Rough Sketch after Lunch, to Fusion 360 for 20 minutes (beginner skills) to make the model, Under 10 minutes to slice and get the prototype on the Printer. Go do something else for nearly 2 hours. Find the tolerances to tight for the stainless hoppers, 10 minutes to tweak the model, reslice and back on the Printer. Mk 2 is a winner :-+

Instead of going to another town with hopper and grinder and most likely paying $50+ (If I was lucky) time and fuel to get this done just so nice to be able to crank this out using some time a bit of power and under $1 of filament. As I need 3 of them the next two are dead easy.

So yep 3D Printer time is now 8)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: branadic on August 15, 2018, 06:21:31 pm
Quote
Our after-sales engineers will provide you with solutions within 1 working day

Disappointing, they state a 1 working day response. After almost a week no answer :(

-branadic-
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on August 25, 2018, 12:50:29 am
Anyone got any advice on bed preparation for PETG over Glass or is it time to look at a dedicated print surface?

For no reason at all a few shots of one of this weeks jobs for my shack. Custom backpack designed in Fusion 360 for a Samsung monitor without rear mounting screws and a crusty old Windoze 7 Tablet to run my Laser and small CNC mill from. Clips printed side down for strength, main platter was 16+ hours (should have laser cut it) ::)  4mm fixings into Brass knurl nuts. Way overkill in time and effort but I did it as much for the Fusion skills as anything.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: branadic on September 02, 2018, 12:37:11 pm
After many days of waiting I received an answer from Anycubic with a file. It's the machine parameter file, where you can change setting such as distance per step.

M8010 S0.000625

The motor is driven using 1/16 step mode, so the initial value per step is 0.625µm. By changing this value one can account for the real spindle pitch. The ideal value for it is 2mm per revolution. So printing a cube of known size, measuring the real height (z-value) one can calculate the true value of it and calculate the real value for M8010 with the following equation:

(real spindle pitch) / (( 360 / 1.8 ) * 16 )

Type in the new value into the gcode file, save it and print this file on your Anycubic Photon. Reprint your cube. Now the size in z-direction should match.

-branadic-
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Fred27 on September 02, 2018, 03:20:08 pm
Interesting - although not many other settings seem that useful.

How do you use it? Do you just leave it on the USB stick or do you "print" the gcode file to update the settings?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: branadic on September 02, 2018, 03:26:39 pm
Quote
print this file on your Anycubic Photon

-branadic-
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 05, 2018, 08:47:51 am
Bit painful on your customer 'support'  :--

So research on PETG much playing and a change of Gluestick from UHU to Bostik. The Bed is now starting at 70C for the first layer reducing to 65 for the prints and 245C Filiment. I was having fairly major issues with Oozing using my modified PLA profile so increased the retraction, reduced the outer perimeter speed a little and made it print that one first rather than the defualt Slic3R last. Still a little stringing but the rework station looks after most of those.

This print is 280x110mm printed on the diagonal. Really easy release on a cooled bed  :-+

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 18, 2018, 05:18:44 am
Few Metres of clear PETG on the roll LED diffuser experiment. under 1M for the bullets (12) and under 2M for the 7 with ribs.

Anyone else got any good electronic uses for the ends of rolls?

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on September 18, 2018, 08:27:48 pm
That's awesome.

I see the CR-10 is over $480USD at gearbest. I probably would have bought the s model if it were in the mid $300 range. I guess the price jump is due to tariffs? Maybe the good times are over...  :scared:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on September 18, 2018, 08:41:06 pm
Just bought a Creality Ender 3.  It is like a smaller version of the CR-10.  Paid $169 and I am delighted.  Set up and debugging took just a couple of hours.  Have already printed a couple of knobs to replace broken vert channel knobs on an oscilloscope and next will come a new housing for an old favorite DMM that actually never had a back.  Was purchased many moons ago as a bag of non-economic to repair parts from the warranty provider.  I got one good meter and a bunch of spare parts out of the deal.

The Ender 3 has a build volume which is roughly 220 mm on a side (about a foot for us old units guys), more than enough for the kind of things I want to build.  Also more than enough for the kind of things that I am will to wait for the print.

The toughest part of the whole thing is the 3D modeling aspect.  Much to learn there, including picking a suitable program and learning it.  Blender makes pretty models, but I haven't found an easy way to set real dimensions.  Solidworks does a great job (for those up the learning curve) but my access to it is limited.  I've tried a couple of others and am not ready to recommend anything yet.  Cura is working well for me for the step from model to g-code.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 18, 2018, 11:15:33 pm
The 3D CAD does take some getting your head around. The last 'formal' training I had on CAD was about 30 years ago HP Mini computer system and very very early version of Autocad :palm:

When you start getting the hang of it simple bits like those diffusers were 10-15 minutes of cad time and I have done a bunch of simple mechanical bushes and knobs for various jobs. The Fusion 360 'Revolve' command makes these really simple.  :-+

Draw the profile of the bush/knob/widget, revolve and add some fillets on the corners.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Red Squirrel on September 18, 2018, 11:21:27 pm
I kinda want to get a 3D printer but have not done much research yet.  I use Linux and I imagine most of them probably require Windows. Linux lacks pretty badly in the CAD department, most of the tools are kind of tedious and unintuitive to use.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on September 18, 2018, 11:36:16 pm
I kinda want to get a 3D printer but have not done much research yet.  I use Linux and I imagine most of them probably require Windows.

Not at all.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CJay on September 19, 2018, 05:46:14 am
The 3D CAD does take some getting your head around. The last 'formal' training I had on CAD was about 30 years ago HP Mini computer system and very very early version of Autocad :palm:

When you start getting the hang of it simple bits like those diffusers were 10-15 minutes of cad time and I have done a bunch of simple mechanical bushes and knobs for various jobs. The Fusion 360 'Revolve' command makes these really simple.  :-+

Draw the profile of the bush/knob/widget, revolve and add some fillets on the corners.

I've spent a bit of time getting to know how to 'draw' things in various CAD programs, it took a little practice but soon  got the grasp of it and have made a few electronics related things, potentiometer shaft extensions with splines, brackets to hold boards and parts like this battery case for a Yaesu handheld:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 19, 2018, 08:56:34 am
I am enjoying learning the CAD. Today's project (about 3 hours) is a custom project box design to neat fit 7x9cm evilbay boards. As the design is parametric via Fusion 360 scaling up or down is a matter of minutes. That is scaling in any dimension is a couple of clicks and holes etc remain the same.

This design will print with no supports and is made to take 3mm knurl nuts in the body and 3mm countersunk screws through the lid. Small self tappers to lock the board to the body of the box. Either a laser cut lid of this one could be used depending on the job.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 20, 2018, 09:03:02 am
About 9 hours of printing. Direct on clean glass at 55 degrees C with PLA filament. Photos as shown with zero mechanical cleanup other than inserting the knurl nuts. Bed was still cooling at 36C when all done for the photos. :-+

The Body of the box is 3mm on the sides and base but I will tweak the design to 2.2 or maybe 2.5mm to save a little time and material. The finish on the upper and lower surfaces without adhesive is fantastic one corner of the box lifted by fractions of a mm so maybe a brim needed?

Other than that very happy  8)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: aargee on September 20, 2018, 12:58:55 pm
I use hairspray on glass, works a treat.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on September 20, 2018, 02:32:48 pm
I'm a little torn on the Ender 3. MakersMuse did not seem to have a favorable review. I mean he recommended it, but just about every print he showed had flaws and he had to replace the feed system to get it to work at all. The RC life on guy showed it perform beautifully out of the box, and a couple others were OK. I just could not watch Naomi's unboxing (she's been back online for a while now, I guess).

Anyway, gearbest had a good $169 price, but have no stock and there is at least a hundred unit backlog/wait list for the US plug - that's cheap enough I won't care much how it does, if I have to just toss it, etc.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: SeanB on September 20, 2018, 04:25:06 pm
Well, today I picked up something from one of our suppliers, who asked if i wanted something they had for free. Got a CubeX Duo printer, now have to get together everything i need to actually use it. Even got some new reels of filament as well.

Time to make a new Vm with XP image and get the software running on it. Will save that for the weekend, just reading up the manual, then get the software and decide if i keep it as is or retrofit it, though probably will keep it as is for now.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 20, 2018, 06:19:03 pm
I'm a little torn on the Ender 3. MakersMuse did not seem to have a favorable review. I mean he recommended it, but just about every print he showed had flaws and he had to replace the feed system to get it to work at all. The RC life on guy showed it perform beautifully out of the box, and a couple others were OK. I just could not watch Naomi's unboxing (she's been back online for a while now, I guess).

Anyway, gearbest had a good $169 price, but have no stock and there is at least a hundred unit backlog/wait list for the US plug - that's cheap enough I won't care much how it does, if I have to just toss it, etc.

The Capricorn Bowden is nice and better fittings are a must IMO. The Creality fittings on my CR10S were rubbish and I was having some issues with the tubing at PETG temperatures. So far so good with the Capricorn at 245C.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: rdl on September 20, 2018, 07:41:45 pm
I bought a Monoprice Select Mini today. I'm still trying to figure out why because I surely didn't need one. It's a refurb and was really cheap. I guess that's reason enough. It should arrive sometime next week.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 21, 2018, 04:26:38 am
If anyone wants to have a play I have attached the Fusion 360 file and STL's for the Box and Lid. Needs 3x10mm C/Sunk screws and 3x5mm knurl nuts both easy to get on evilbay. You could always mod the hole sizes to take self tappers instead on the drawing then make new STL's but a stash of knurl nuts is worth it.

This drawing now has the floor and lid shelled out to 2mm and the side walls reduced to 2.5mm. The CR-10S print times are back to about 8 hours and 25m of Filament for both. So the cost per box is under $3 plus a bit of power with the hardware.

Printing with a 6mm skirt is keeping it locked down to the glass better still with no adhesive. I have tried one flavour of Hairspray and it didn't go well, bare glass for PLA seems to work fairly well but I am still playing. In stock size it takes an Arduino UNO and Shield as per the photo vertically so it should be a decent all round enclosure.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on September 22, 2018, 07:01:55 pm
After a few days use I am less pleased with the Creality Ender 3.  It failed.  Dead power supply.   On opening up found a surge limiting thermister had violently let the smoke out.  I have not yet determined the value so repair is on standby.  I went ahead and did a network buy of a replacement unit (under $20 shipped).  But in the meantime I pulled out one of my linear boat anchor supplies to power up the machine.  Works great and has a built in current meter.   Which shows that during bed heating this puppy draws 30 amps.  Which is an issue since the supplied power box is rated at 15A.  No wonder it blew. 

Apparently they are getting away with this overload because the initial heating phase only lasts a couple of minutes.  After that the average power draw is down in the couple of amp range.   Some large number of them must be surviving for at least a few months.

This still is a good buy (price vs performance), but anyone pulling the trigger on this unit would be well advised to buy the available (from several sources) exact same form factor supply rated at 30 amps.  It costs a few dollars more than the replacement I bought, and it seems likely one of these will be in my future.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on September 22, 2018, 07:04:08 pm
After a few days use I am less pleased with the Creality Ender 3.  It failed.  Dead power supply.   On opening up found a surge limiting thermister had violently let the smoke out.  I have not yet determined the value so repair is on standby.  I went ahead and did a network buy of a replacement unit (under $20 shipped).  But in the meantime I pulled out one of my linear boat anchor supplies to power up the machine.  Works great and has a built in current meter.   Which shows that during bed heating this puppy draws 30 amps.  Which is an issue since the supplied power box is rated at 15A.  No wonder it blew. 

Apparently they are getting away with this overload because the initial heating phase only lasts a couple of minutes.  After that the average power draw is down in the couple of amp range.   Some large number of them must be surviving for at least a few months.

It's a 24V supply - there's no way it should be drawing 30A. Something is wrong.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: NiHaoMike on September 22, 2018, 07:35:57 pm
Check to make sure the bed heater is actually a 24V version?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on September 22, 2018, 11:15:22 pm
That is the current at 24 volts.  Not the current from the mains.  I will look into the heater rating, but it is the one supplied.  It is in one of the pre-assembled parts of the kit.  If it is indeed not intended for 24 volts, or if it is connected improperly for 24V, that is merely a different error on Creality's part.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on September 22, 2018, 11:20:39 pm
That is the current at 24 volts.  Not the current from the mains.

Well of course not, I didn't imagine I was implying such. It still should not be anywhere remotely that high.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 23, 2018, 12:18:26 am
I thought the Ender 3's were 24V beds from release? Could be you have a short in the bed element? Check the heat across it on startup and see if it heats evenly  :-//

Check under the bed and see if it reads like this link. 220W 24V etc https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1PCS-3D-Printer-Parts-Black-Hotbed-Aluminum-Heated-bed-for-Ender-3-send-by-FDE-DHL/3033013_32877094231.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.10.26fe2035WoAhnM (https://www.aliexpress.com/store/product/1PCS-3D-Printer-Parts-Black-Hotbed-Aluminum-Heated-bed-for-Ender-3-send-by-FDE-DHL/3033013_32877094231.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.10.26fe2035WoAhnM)


I have spent 12 hours with a Prusa i3 Mk3 in a shopping cart, have the cash ready and I keep seeing minor niggles with them online. Coin toss coming up :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: NiHaoMike on September 23, 2018, 02:09:37 am
I'm thinking the supplier might have accidentally sent a 12V version. Happens every once in a while.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on September 23, 2018, 04:23:27 am
I'm thinking the supplier might have accidentally sent a 12V version.
I was thinking that as well.

I don't have a 3D printer (yet) but my reading has shown me it is common for a 12V supply to be rated for 20A - with the heater for the bed taking the lion's share of that ... around 15A I believe.


Did the bed heat up really quickly?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 23, 2018, 04:54:50 am
24V seems to be getting more common in the last year or so even with the Chinese. My CR-10S came with a 12V 20A however.

So Prusa lost out after several more hours of youtube videos and research.

Enter the Ender 3 PRO with a 'Magnetic' Bed (not much detail on what it actually is) and ordering a Flexion Extruder for semi flexibles and higher Temperature filaments to fit to it. The Ender/Flexion combo is close to 50% the cost of the Prusa.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on September 23, 2018, 03:13:54 pm
The heater on mine is marked 24 V and 220 W.  But the cold resistance is about 0.8 ohms.  Yet another confirmation of ohms law. 

So either the hot bed is mismarked or defective.  I guess I'll be finding how the Chinese warranty works.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 23, 2018, 11:31:29 pm
Creality direct has been good for the two issues I have had with the CR-10. Doesn't mean you get to the techie crew directly but the focus on the customer felt fairly good. Yesterday's Ender Pro I ordered from Crealities Drop Ship warehouse partly because of this ex Sydney as it was the same price as Aliexpress and due to some BS Tax changes cheaper than Gearbest and I haven't dealt with Bangood before.

Paypal or even your Credit Card is always a good backup depending on the issue too  :-\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on September 24, 2018, 01:44:53 pm
I saw that the bed heater supply wiring is often a culprit. The plugs were said to be good enough.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on September 25, 2018, 01:57:40 am
More info on the Ender-3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l56yY2kMKs (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4l56yY2kMKs)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 25, 2018, 02:26:58 am
I watched that one a while back. 80 Parts extra most of which do nothing cable ties and junking the stock bowden fittings won't fix for $3.

The Pro version I have on the way is fitted with a Meanwell Supply and has had some other tweaks done to it so it should be interesting to compare to the original. Features for $ it is fairly hard to go past in the lower price bracket.

As to revues on Youtube all of them need to be taken with a grain of salt including this 'honest' one with the attached 'discount' coupon link. 'Free' revue printers seem to be the standard for youtube accounts over even 5k subscriptions and there is plenty of stilted ones out there to get another freebie one later it seems even Prusa ones have some punches pulled by reviewers. :horse:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: arthurhopkins on September 26, 2018, 01:07:16 am
I contracted a 3D illness this weekend and was watching videos covering some popular models, such as CR-10 and Tevo Little Monster. Are they worth considering yet?

The CR-10 almost always has good reviews, the Tevo was a bit mixed, but I kind of like the build of that one.

Any thoughts or suggestions? It's not something for which I have a direct need, just an interest, and it would mostly be for functional / somewhat structural parts, to complement my metal machine shop.

And to add, I really have no insight into the nuances of 3D printing, such as the types of heads, software workflows, etc. - just what I gleaned from an afternoon on youtube...

I have 3D Da Vinci 1.0 Pro and its powerful to create my action figure  ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 27, 2018, 02:39:01 am
So Part A arrived today from Sydney. Tiny compared to the CR10. Seems they have fixed the issue with the exposed grill below the front of the bed so no need for a print to fix it. :-+

The 3D Printed base for the power supply is an abomination and worse than any print I have dne that reached completion   :wtf: I will take it up with Creality and see how they respond to their  :palm:

Power Supply is a Meanwell LRS-350-24 btw.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: linux-works on September 27, 2018, 04:09:49 am
I started with the cr7 from amazon a bit more than a year ago.  a month ago, I found an ender-3 for $199 and grabbed it.

its not bad and for the price, hard to beat.  I dislike the lack of 2 z-steppers.  it needs it.  you can get print errors (dragging head across the print) when one z is higher than the other.  the cr7 didn't need 2 z's but this ender 3 sized thing does.  I hope there is a mod soon.

also, the print head is rather small.  when I upgraded to one of the more standard hotends, I could print much faster.  now that I'm back to the stock head, I print at 50% of what I'd want.  its not bad quality, but its kind of slow if you want good prints.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 27, 2018, 04:48:51 am
I was thinking of belt drive for the second Z might be a decent option to keep it simple? I was considering this before purchase but thought I would give it a go first.

Had an initial reply offering to sort my problem within an hour of sending an evilbay message too :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 27, 2018, 08:14:43 am
And in under 5 hours I have the STL from them Sliced it and printing on the CR-10S  :-+

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on September 27, 2018, 12:28:45 pm
You don't really need a second drive on the Ender 3. As long as it's properly assembled it should not be able to drop.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 27, 2018, 12:41:44 pm
The X gantry seems to be able to be made solid with only the one drive by adjusting the wheels on either side. Minor glitch with mine the non drive end is sitting a few mm higher than the driven compared to the bed and frame. 10.30pm so a tomorrow job as it needs a disassembly of the gantry.

Random thing I didn't think to look at is bed levelling seems to be not on the firmware on the PRO? I know it can be added with a reflash but odd not to include it as far as I can see.

Other than that it is driving smoothly on all the axis.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on September 27, 2018, 06:05:22 pm
Working through the Gearbest warranty dept on my issues.  They are cooperative in many ways, but it could be just a slow slog to hoping I will go away.  First step was they demanded a video of the fault.  Video of it not powering on?  Video less than 5 Mbytes.  With good lighting and focus.  I finally got a short video showing the thing not working and then drawing high current when powered through an auxiliary supply down to 5 Mbytes.  My hat is off to you video bloggers, Dave especially.  Got it uploaded (I think) through their not very user friendly process.  They have now forwarded it to their technical experts for evaluation.

Meanwhile I am continuing to use the thing powered by the external supply.  In answer to an earlier question - yes the bed does heat fast - well under three minutes though I haven't put a stop watch to it. 

I am reminded daily how fussy these things can be.  Make sure your table is rock solid.  For convenience I set the printer on top of the external supply.  It is an HP 6012A, a heavy monster of a boat anchor.  But not solid enough.  The platform was resonating all over the place and noticeably degrading print quality.

There are a myriad of print settings and minor and obscure changes can be the difference between trash output and something very nice.  Geometry of the parts matters a lot.  Settings that are good for a tall slender knob can be a complete fail for a box.

The photo shows one completed and functional knob next to a print that failed due to sitting on top of the power supply.  (The dial ring was obviously not printed).  This was one of the primary goals for purchasing this printer, and it is meeting my expectations on the better prints.  Hopefully as I get things dialed in they will all be that good.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 28, 2018, 07:05:37 am
So my first Ender Pro print turned out to be a real Dog  ::)

Squared everything fairly carefully ran the bed in 50mm steps to 200mm and it was under 0.5mm on all 4 corners at each stop. Manually set the bed with paper at the corners and kicked off print number one for nearly 6 hours. Not very demanding but the uniformity of the surface is excellent, photos were either flash or strong overhead to show the finish. Release HOT from the magnetic bed was easy and I am sure cold would just about fall off.

Only mod other than the replacement PS case is replace the junk Bowden fittings and the Tube with Capricorn.

Flexion Extruder next week due to Australia Post  :horse:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 30, 2018, 10:46:57 am
So printed a small lot of parts on the Ender Pro. Consider me impressed for the $$  :-+

Not sure if I like the textured finish on the bed but it does better match the other surfaces I suppose? Cranked out another box to test dimensions rather than a boring test cube. The lid printed on the CR-10S dropped straight in which given I gave it no tolerance between lid and box initially is pretty shmick. I may have a play with my first layer settings and see if I can improve the look on the bed.

Printed a few little add ons for the printer in spite of me giving the video above a bit of a rev. None of them mechanically change the printer they are cosmetic clips, tray and spool adaptors. So far mechanically it doesn't seem to need any.

Onto today's Fusion 360 project. Thin wall (0.8mm in places) tiny dual USB case playing with shells and lofts. I made a clunky dual output adaptor a while back using a commercial case (complete with foam tape for spacing  :P ) for some decorative lighting running off a 12V supply. The adaptors are these https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Best-6-24V-12V-24V-to-5V-3A-Car-USB-Charger-Module-DC-Buck-Step-Down-Converter/162448848369?hash=item25d2b4b5f1:g:aL4AAOSwTM5Y21tE (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Best-6-24V-12V-24V-to-5V-3A-Car-USB-Charger-Module-DC-Buck-Step-Down-Converter/162448848369?hash=item25d2b4b5f1:g:aL4AAOSwTM5Y21tE) and available from a heap of suppliers.

STL Files below if anyone is interested and either CA or even a run of tape around the outside to hold them together. About an hour total print time, no supports and plenty strong for the job. Not a money or even a time saver but a better result than a commercial case could do.

*** Note Version 2 of the ZIP. minor issue fixed  2x 12 year old Scotch's does not make 12+1 = 12 -1 .....  :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 04, 2018, 07:58:50 am
If I budgeted $20/hour for time spent .....  :palm:

Learned heaps on Fusion 360. My first real assembly drawing and design. I still think it is easier to draw separate components like the boxes above but I can see the benefits on more complex items to check clearance and fit.

Uses stock fans and wiring to the Hotend for the ender (or CR-10S) all I need extra is an extension for the extruder. Swapping it back to original or to the Flexion will be under 30 minutes.

3D printed fan carrier is split to save a heap of supports and you get a stronger part where needed. Splitting to the stepped profile was actually easy when I got around to it.

Aluminium insert is for extra heatsinking rather than strength the stock Flexion seems light on for the heat break.

Nozzle Fan Duct is a rip from Thingyverse as I have spent way to much time on this already. Printing tomorrow at this stage.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 04, 2018, 03:29:43 pm
OK, the Ender 3 was $169+shipping and that made it time. It arrived the other day and assembly was OK.


I had to fuss a bit with the T-nuts and I ended up putting the supply side beam in facing the wrong direction. I installed the supply last and found out when installing the screws as they would not seat into the groove without the machined relief. I did not notice where they specified the screws so figured I'd find out by the leftovers. First print using Cura's default settings of some dog off thingiverse. Good thing I was made aware that the sample filament would only print 1/3 the test print.

I got something much smaller, about 25mm diameter, and here is the 1st test print, which is within my expectations. Not better nor worse. I hope it can do better though. It took about 12 minutes to print.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 06, 2018, 05:05:08 am
The tiny samples included with the Ender are pointless. When I got my CR-10 direct from Creality/Aliexpress it was sold with 200G standard and a good price on a 2kg add on for initial stocks of PLA.

Finalised (for now) the design of the mount. If I can be bothered I would include 3mm knurl nuts and blocks on the print for the main fan instead of nut and bolts. 2mm knurl nuts and extra mounts on the drawing/print for the part fan.

Wasn't happy with the fans I found and how they fitted around the heatblock/silicone so I decided to roll my own. Had to print it with 0.1mm layers to get the thin walls to work well but still under 2 hours. Version 2 being designed at present for easier printing.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 07, 2018, 08:40:37 am
So many more hours later :palm: The sweep function on Fusion 360 is "Quirky"

I now have a high flow part cooling fan adaptor. Printed walls down to 0.6 in places so the unit was printed at 0.1 layer height. Printed with no supports flat on glass. Photo is pre tidy up.

Extruder is calibrated fairly close on PLA so after having to do some actual 'work' over the weekend I should fire it up properly tomorrow.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 08, 2018, 01:12:35 pm
It doesn't look like the nozzle comes lower than the shroud, but perhaps that is just the picture?

My Ender 3 seems to hit the left X limit switch pretty hard. It slams the physical stop on homing. Is that normal?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 09, 2018, 12:19:06 am
The Ender Pro compared to the CR-10 does slam the limit switches and I think shares the same board. I have never looked at the Marlin Firmware but maybe something in there to tweak even tweak the pot on the driver board? If it is hitting a hard stop then time to change the position of the switch the Pro seems to be 5-6mm clear of anything on the X axis. I believe there may be enough memory on the board to add Bed Levelling too.
 
The Stock Nozzles on the Flexion extruder are short compared to the Creality ones and the Silicone  sleeve adds some depth to the block making it difficult to get in close. I have tweaked the duct design again to get a little more clearance over the bed/job (angled the ducts down). That one in the photo was down to 2mm from the nozzle tip.

I had a job go a little wrong dimension wise (bottom part didn't go where it was supposed to) so I tweaked the design into a lid to do another job :) Pin Punches are perfect for popping supports out of holes BTW. Lettering -0.2 printed at 0.2 layer, more playing with depths and layer heights to improve it.

Also re measured and fixed the dimensions for it's initial purpose.  :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on October 09, 2018, 01:54:10 pm
Slamming hard could indicate they're not using interrupts on the limit switches, or possibly just homing way too fast.

Also possible the limit switch inputs are just too slow - my Anet board came with 10uF(!!) caps as 'filters' on all the limit inputs, this was rather a problem for my Z probe. China..
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 09, 2018, 02:08:32 pm
Found a reddit topic and seems a few have commented similarly, and posted a video. One said they bent the switch levers out to give more time and that helped.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI__gCKPFEA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tI__gCKPFEA)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 10, 2018, 02:01:56 am
Re: Ender 3 hitting the stops. I did just as I read on reddit, I bent the x home switch lever end slightly out with needle nose pliers. Now homing is soft and nice. I need to bring the Z limit and bed down to maximize height. I am now printing a dimensional "turner's cube"
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 10, 2018, 07:50:13 am
Cubes are boring find something interlocking and test it ;)

WIP just tweaking the clearance between the lid and base (forgot to allow for a side wall on the base :palm:) As I broke my hacked case for my TS-100 I reworked a split enclosure design I have been playing with into a light compact shell to throw in my onsite bag. Allen Key has a holder under the solder. Beats the hell out of travelling with a Weller soldering station/Inverter.

The Enclosure is made from two identical parts +- whatever mounts or cutouts get added. I have designed a TPU sleeve to keep them together when I get the Flexion/Ender dialled in.

Good news on the switch too  :-+


** Sorted, Samsung S7 for comparison. Case is 160x0x16.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 10, 2018, 01:20:43 pm
The cube is just a dimensional reference of the printer's accuracy. Worst is (+0.5 -0.13)mm. That is pretty much with default settings all around and using Cura. I downloaded FreeCAD and gave it a spin for this test.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on October 10, 2018, 02:55:16 pm
Still going back and forth with GearBest on warranty for my Creality Ender 3.  They appear to be giving me the rope a dope treatment.  "Thanks for your contact.  We will get back to you within two business days."  Repeat when questioned on status.

I have been coming up the learning curve on FreeCAD and am pretty happy at the moment.  There are some quirks that may be unique to the Windows implementation on numeric entry (can't enter numbers from numeric keypad, but can from number keys - can't enter fractional numbers for scaling until existing zero pad is erased and similar things), but so far most of the problems have been getting me up to speed on solid modelling terminology and methods.  I am looking forward to trying the Electrostatic and Fluids solvers in the FEM module once I get over the initial hump.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 10, 2018, 03:16:24 pm
I did not understand the "toolpaths" that I ended up with. I created a thin-walled cube and it printed from corner to corner in a back and forth way, but would move to an adjacent corner for every "wall" - just my guess. I did not quite get what number of walls mean in Cura. Anyway, crumby cellphone picture. It can't print the top part of a vertical hole very well.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: georges80 on October 10, 2018, 03:25:33 pm
Still going back and forth with GearBest on warranty for my Creality Ender 3.  They appear to be giving me the rope a dope treatment.  "Thanks for your contact.  We will get back to you within two business days."  Repeat when questioned on status.

I have been coming up the learning curve on FreeCAD and am pretty happy at the moment.  There are some quirks that may be unique to the Windows implementation on numeric entry (can't enter numbers from numeric keypad, but can from number keys - can't enter fractional numbers for scaling until existing zero pad is erased and similar things), but so far most of the problems have been getting me up to speed on solid modelling terminology and methods.  I am looking forward to trying the Electrostatic and Fluids solvers in the FEM module once I get over the initial hump.

Numeric pad? Works for me. Do you have numlock active, otherwise it'll just function as cursor keys.

Fortunately both my sons are studying mech eng, so I just ask one of them to create the 3D models (they use solidworks) for me :) Though I really need to get proficient at it myself...

cheers,
george.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on October 10, 2018, 03:50:18 pm

Numeric pad? Works for me. Do you have numlock active, otherwise it'll just function as cursor keys.

Fortunately both my sons are studying mech eng, so I just ask one of them to create the 3D models (they use solidworks) for me :) Though I really need to get proficient at it myself...

cheers,
george.

It is weird.  Numlock is active (my default condition).  Problem shows up predominantly in the scaling process.  But when setting a scaling factor can only enter positive integers using the keypad.  I can enter positions, sizes and so on just fine when using the numeric pad.  It may still be something about the way I am using the program.  Or something specific to Win10. 

As with much GNU stuff the documentation is voluminous, but not necessarily informative.  Fortunately it shares a lot of fundamental concepts with commercial modelling programs and I have a couple of good books on Solidworks to guide me.

I am sure there are better ways to do some of what I have done.  For example, the only way I could figure to get a complex regular, but non standard shape in was to set up the equations for the shape in Excel, plot it there, use the Snipping tool to copy and paste to Inkscape, trace that bitmap graphic in Inkscape and then export the result as an .svg file for import into FreeCAD.  Works a charm, but probably there are a couple of easier ways to do it.  One would be to write a Python script (yet another learning curve).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 10, 2018, 07:04:41 pm
Did you try any of the FreeCAD youtube tutorials? To get off the ground I watched this one, and his second has a different approach using a constrained system that might be more interesting to you.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLf2KVrtGew (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TLf2KVrtGew)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3AiEmfm2Bg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l3AiEmfm2Bg)

There is a Learn FreeCAD channel too...

Note that I too had some issues entering values, usually for positioning a part. Click and it highlights the field, type numbers and rather than changing the numeric value in the highlighted field, the view angle would change. I was trying to figure out what I did wrong. I was sure I selected the part first.  :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on October 10, 2018, 11:29:13 pm
I have looked at several of the help files and tutorials.  The two you posted were new to me, and some of the better ones.  I picked up a couple of things from them.  But I am still left with mysteries that are glossed over in the videos.  He quickly moves things around using the placement values to get things lined up.  But where he got the values used is a little mysterious.  In the first video it apparently comes because he knows the zero reference for the primitives.  I say apparently because in my own fiddling around they sometimes get put in in strange places, and you end up just trying values until it gets to where you want it.  It also gets strange when making two or more fairly complex assemblies and then putting them together.

He did make the use of constraints clearer than other "tutorials" I have read and watched. 

He places his focus on the Part and Part Design workbenches.  So far I have found it necessary/useful/clicks with me to add the Draft and Sketcher workbenches.  I think the key is groking the FreeCAD hierarchy of coordinate systems and inheritance.  I'm not there yet.

I will repeat that I am finding FreeCAD better than any other low cost tool I have tried and at least as far as I can tell nearly as good as the very high end tools.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 11, 2018, 10:43:18 am
Much as Autodesk has issues Fusion 360 Free plan is a good option too.

Nothing to do with Electronics in particular other than my shacks Espresso machine in down for a proper overhaul (my 'real job) :o Brewed Coffee saving the day on that front.

What has 8 top, bottom and perimeter layers and 50% infill? This jig and some 6mm wood inserts is what. I have made it a tap on with a hammer fit then screw in the locators and break out the big stilsons. Last time I did this was a very horrid hacked up thing drilled and tapped from scrap steel since lost in the pile. 5 hours to print this one and should be fine for a few uses and cheap to make another if it breaks or wears out.

The Wood inserts are 'interesting' to use but doable with 180-200 on the rework gun to warm the insert and general area before winding in. I had 6mm knurl nuts but these have better side area for this job.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 16, 2018, 01:56:01 am
Due to a shift in Beer choices  :popcorn: I needed a stubbie opener in the shack (and on the keyring), a trip to thingiverse got me an STL to use as a base with a 0.01 Euro coin. I have a big baggy of Aussie 1C coins that are out of general circulation so I made a new Fusion 360 drawing to suit.

6 layers all round and printed side down is plenty strong enough but I will try a 4 layer one before I make a little stash as company/friend giveaways. Just warm the coin slightly if you make the slot just undersized as I did for mine and press in.

Dave got a dirty head as I had a bad idea to use permanent marker to colour it in (bleed down the layer lines) maybe nail polish or enamel paint in the cut might work?

Due to the variations in coins or washers you might like to use I have included the Fusion drawing below along with an STL EEVBlog logo opener to take the Aussie Peso if anyone is interested.

Nothing to do with Electronics for the other project but interesting putting together some learned CAD skills to roll a complete R/C Glider fuselage. Without chopping it into smaller bits it is max size for the CR-10 and will suit 1.2-1.5m wings. Basically 0.8-1mm walls seems to be plenty stiff and strong and the nose sheath gets a double layer if you dork it in  :palm: Lots more to do with the internal structure/mounts etc. but I have started work on a laser cut wing kit for one of my other toys to make.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 16, 2018, 07:35:34 am
I think like Trump, Dave does not imbibe. Coincidentally, I heard on the news tonight that global warming is expected to hit the barley and hops hard, so price should rise accordingly.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 18, 2018, 08:10:15 pm
Well, now the fun begins. I'm starting to have bed adhesion issues and some other anomalies at the start of the print.

In some cases, I've seen the first layer or so simply start to lift at some narrow edge or corner. If a small amount and there is enough buildup, the print can continue with a minor defect. But usually, the head will come across and hit the lifted section. Other times I notice a small fuzzball or artifact mysteriously appear almost immediately. After that, the nozzle will hit that and break that section free of the bed. I haven't figured out what's going on there as it's almost impossible to focus on the nozzle when it's that close to the bed. I almost want to say I see some plastic curling up around the nozzle that eventually sticks to the part, or other times it looks a piece of the plastic just curls up from the part layer.

Maybe I am experiencing the issue with the bowden tube working its way out of the head because of poor quality tube and quick connect fittings. Also, the center of my bed is getting smooth due to the scrapper and trying to work the finished parts off. The bed had immense grip on the first prints - it was too good! That was certainly a better problem than what  have now, so I was thinking of a way to restore some of the texture. I may also get a thin piece of glass or mirror and have it coarse sandblasted. Maybe I'll keep one smooth for variety.

Another question, if bed leveling, or rather, Squish is so important, how is that addressed when printing thin layers? Is that done by the extrusion rate relative to linear motion? I might have the nozzle too close as I usually use a skirt adhesion and it is typically much flatter than anything like a D shape, but I am also using thinner layers than when I started out. There are so many settings it's getting hard to remember what I did and changed. Cura does provide a list of deviations from the default settings, however. Time to start serializing these combinations and marking the prints.

I finally figured out how to get "vase" mode by selecting Spiralize Outer Contour under the Special modes...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: linux-works on October 19, 2018, 01:41:38 am
I run my first layer at half speed or sometimes even slower.

I now have a heated bed, but you don't need that for pla, at least.  the 'build tak' style platforms are great, them them a try.  once I went with build-tak style, I never have pla issues anymore.

also, I make the bottom layer 101% thickness, so that lines touch each other more than normal, just to get that first layer sticking better.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 19, 2018, 03:24:50 am
Thanks! I found Initial Layer Height in mm and Initial Layer Flow in %. I cleaned the bed well and 'roughed' it up with a small stainless 'tooth' brush, and slowed the initial layer speed to 20mm/s. I'm printing a reference rocket and it's working better now - perfect actually.

There may not be a Cura setting, but I'd like to turn off the heated bed after several layers as it seems unnecessary to keep that hot.

Here we go, I guess it's about a buck in material alone to print this size rocket, and that is not something I'd buy in the dollar store. The fun I'm having though is almost priceless, and maybe I'll learn something too...  :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: branadic on October 19, 2018, 08:04:12 am
@ beanflying

You can print as much samples as you want, but this printer remains a simple sausage printer for me with poor quality of the parts and bad ecological fingerprint as it is a source of micro plastic. Sorry, but had to say that.

-branadic-
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on October 19, 2018, 12:21:38 pm
I don't see how this printer is any worse than any other 3D printer as a source of microplastic.  It is my understanding that PLA is biodegrade able, so not a huge issue.

I have seen high quality prints from this printer and made a couple myself.  Are you asserting that other printers are less sensitive to the myriad of settings involved?

My personal issue with a defective component is being resolved (after a threat to get my credit card company involved).  Since I can't compare defect rates between various venders/suppliers I don't know if there is a valid quality knock against Creality or the retailer I purchased it from.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 19, 2018, 01:50:39 pm
I wasn't sure if branadic was referring to his Anycubic Photon or generally FDM printers, and general failure rates.  :-//

So far I've had very little waste in the projects I've done. It is certainly orders of magnitude less than if I were machining parts from bulk stock plastic.

So now I have planned to print a case for my LCR component tester (~10m of filament) and will design something I fancy for my Arduino LCD shield. The designs I found on Thingiverse use too much plastic (~30m).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 20, 2018, 03:52:54 am
@ beanflying

You can print as much samples as you want, but this printer remains a simple sausage printer for me with poor quality of the parts and bad ecological fingerprint as it is a source of micro plastic. Sorry, but had to say that.

-branadic-

PLA prints are the bulk of what I am doing so plant based and to a fair degree biodegradable over time even without proper recycling. ABS, PETG etc are a different matter and as generally parts lack recycle numbers or proper waste stream access for a lot so. As humans we generally tread heavy in the environment  :(

Quality for one offs or prototypes please give me a better and more cost effective process? There is NO better alternate I am aware of on quality to cost for this purpose!

Balsa Bashing for model making was faster than belows effort  :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 20, 2018, 02:14:47 pm
The two cases I mentioned, and a straw to replace something I did...

Note: I tried to sand and then use a torch to smooth the fuzzies. PLA is quite flammable and those cases caught fire! Maybe not as suitable for electronics...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on October 20, 2018, 02:20:24 pm
You should try ABS, then. Jeez that stuff can get an inferno going.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 20, 2018, 11:10:36 pm
As most plastics are insulators I don't see a problem with using 3D printed or any plastic enclosures for light duties. Elevated temps or harsh environments then use what you need to. I have set up gear in explosive UL rated enclosures before $$

Use a heat gun or rework station rather than if I read you right you were using naked flame  :o Also up you retraction in your slicer by 1-2mm should sort out some more of the fuzzy bits.

Yesterdays slightly pointless but handy kit to keep the place nicer. Designed and put to CAD over a beer then printed while I slept. Woke up this morning to this good but slightly imperfect solution (wire is still a bit untidy).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 23, 2018, 03:55:36 am
Guise! I keep getting these blobs after being well into the print. The bottom part of the image and all the rest is fine, but hopefully you can see the blob happening there. The nozzle smacks into these blobs. It's odd because it happens almost identically on the same parts, for example I was printing 8 of these and they all had the same problem at the same spot. The rest of the infill looks practically flawless. That blob is nearly as high above the current printing surface as the part is thick!  I measure the part thickness at 0.61mm and the total height at the blob is 1.42mm :scared: Oh, the bottom first layer is perfect under that too. It would have made it to the 4th layer, 0.15mm before stopping the print..

These are designs I downloaded and wonder if there is not something inherent in the design of the part? Another thing I notice is smaller defects arise from the plastic curling up behind the nozzle. Usually that gets "ironed" down on the next layer.

Any ideas?

Oh, I measure the raft and bed height seems perfect. Rafts measure 0.2 or 0.15mm, correlating to the slicer settings...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: ANTALIFE on October 23, 2018, 06:31:07 am
First thought you are extruding too much filament, here is what I would do:

Check your actual filament diameter with some calipers, though it might say 1.75mm you are likely to find it being a bit higher/lower. Make sure to measure at multiple points and then average the value. Change setting in slicer and try again, tell/show us how it goes
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 23, 2018, 02:11:03 pm
I am definitely going to have to start writing things down and labeling the parts. The bulkhead is large and the rest looks good, so it's a puzzle of how to fix it given they all had that same spot fail. Also, the fuzzy part closer looked to be under extruded on some, I could see some very small voids, but the surface there was smooth and mostly complete. I'll see if all the settings can be exported to a spreadsheet as bringing them up in the GUI is cumbersome and not as easy to spot changes.

I was having some other problems printing small (5x6mm)rivets. The best looking one in upper center (1) came from a lot of 16, where one did not adhere to the plate. I tried printing one-off using the same slicer settings and the results were far different. The lower right (2) was the first try and it looked over-extruded and too hot, and it wiggled off the bed. I made changes to the printer by tuning the print speed lower to help with bed adhesion and hopefully let it cool while printing upper left (3). It at least finished but still looked too hot or over extruded, and it wiggled on the bed. I resliced with a brim, then lowered the temp in the upper right (4), then lowered the flow in the lower left (5). These were just small changes, one click of the dial moves a value from 100% to 96%, for example. Nozzle is set to 200° It might be this PLA, I was having great prints with another black and the sample white.

One more thing I can say is that this orange PLA runs out a lot during the end of initial heating, I do not recall that on the other colors... :box:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on October 23, 2018, 03:47:02 pm
I have found printing multiples very different also.  The cooling time before the next pass changes greatly.  Same kind of effect based on size of part.  I am thinking of making an enclosure to make the temperature warmer and more stable.  I'm sure that will require a whole new round of optimisations, but maybe less sensitivity to size and quantity.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 24, 2018, 01:33:18 am
Not sure about your slicers but Sli3er Prusa had the option for sequential printing so one after the next rather than layer by layer for all. You just need to spread the bits apart to clear the print head and allow for the height of the tallest object. I have done it both ways but for buts you need better strength or quality then sequential.

The filament runout sensor microswitch on my CR-10 fell apart from having a knob of plastic pulled backward past the blade  :palm: I had some leftover limit switches from my CNC mill and I wasn't happy with the 'upgraded design' I printed from thingiverse some months ago for the stock board. So off to fusion 360, swap the 3 pin jst header for a 4 pin one, chop down the board a bit, print the new design and off it goes again. My Filament rolls sit on top on the CR-10 like the Ender so some sweep on the design is built in along with a Teflon liner as per the pictures. Version 1 with a vertical board just didn't work so re rolled the design and built a dustcover into it too. Cable holder is included to bring it more inline with the Bowden tube than the stock one. If anyone wants the STL's let me know but it is built with top mount spools so won't suit the stock CR-10.

There is also an Ender version spun out of the same design if anyone wants it for personal use. I only did this as I was made a very good offer by Creality on another Ender Pro with a glass bed  ::) I have attached the STL below for this one, just snip a bit of bowden tube, smooth the end and push it in to the stop point (about 3mm inside the outlet point) If the Bowden it to tight to push in then warm the print as needed to soften it a little.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 24, 2018, 01:46:48 am
This is a small pumpkin (~17mm diamter) I printed a few days ago using Cura's "vase" mode, spiral contour or something like that. It is thin as anything and impressed me to death. Such a night and day difference to my rivet... I've made several of these with full top as earrings using the default fine 0.15mm layer setting...this one broke the top off with handling...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 25, 2018, 05:29:59 am
So I built a light pipe/box to use up some leftover Labware. 0.8mm walls on the sides and box and no need for fasteners to hold the 3mm base on. Russian Dolls might be the next model  >:D

Still need to play with what goes in the tubes but I am leaning toward Glow in the dark pebbles (concrete industry) filled to the top with resin to cut down the dusting. Then how much light under it is the next thing.

Getting the supports out of the pipe section was a   |O !

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 25, 2018, 02:04:42 pm
I missed your filament guide post. It looks sturdy. I tried a clip-on one from thingiverse and it does not stay. Now I'm just using a plain old drinking straw to keep the filament off the lead screw. That has been a potential issue for so many printers I'm not sure why they haven't addressed it?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 25, 2018, 10:22:48 pm
Like the filament runout sensor Creality shipped with initially it was an add on from the original CR-10 so it just slid over the mount. Any side or vertical loads dragged the filament into the lead screw  :palm:

The STL for the Ender is in the Zip file above. Print it with supports from the bed ONLY (or your hole get filled  >:D ) at 0.1 or 0.15 layer height and give it a go.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 27, 2018, 01:25:37 am
3D Printer Yet?  YES :-+

Four Custom tools to make stripping and reassembly of one of my coffee toys easier. Yes the tools are available but for the wrong side of $200 commercially. Lever Spring clamp, Spring compressor, Piston Removal Nut, Piston Insertion tool. Stripped de-calcified after 8 years of ownership, new seals and teflon guides all round and sipping the reward  8)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 31, 2018, 07:35:18 am
Doing battle with cloud based Fusion 360 without terrestrial broadband is a major PITA (contractors cut the line during an 'upgrade' still two more days of BS). Seems you need internet to export STL's from it so tethering to a mobile periodically  :wtf:

Couple of this weeks projects.

Arthritic or Damaged hand Crown decapper. Either Twist or just push down. Works a treat this one is off to a worthy cause.

Double overhead adjustable spool holder. Will take 150 or 200mm drums with clearance spare  2nd Ender Pro at work on most of it. 20 hours plus  :-+

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 31, 2018, 02:54:59 pm
I'm still having mountain ranges. My last print I wanted to complete so heated the scraper and "ironed" them down during the print. Once they start they just seem to grow, but only and consistently in the same places. I've tried temps and lower seemed to help a bit, like 195, but then I'd have more adhesion problems. I tried lowering extrusion and that helped a bit, but then under-extruded in other places and adhesion problems. The mountains start on the first few layers where there is solid fill. Once I ironed them down the print usually gets into a partial fill and will be fine.

I also cut a glass bed. It was a little thicker glass than I wanted, but that's what was there. Adhesion is fine once I get the flow going, which is hit and miss at the start. PLA is not sticking as well to the glass and could break loose later in the print, and once the glass cools it is ready to fall off, so I need to keep the bed hot. I may try to find a place to sand blast one side. I thought sandpaper would cause scores and might crack.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on October 31, 2018, 10:35:57 pm
Finally getting somewhere on this.  The first picture shows a gallery of the attempts to print a replacement knob for a Tektronix scope, running left to right.  The farthest left is my best attempt at resin casting these.  Wasn't getting there.  The next three are my first attempts at printing.  They aren't bad, which is good, I might have given up on the whole idea if the ones in the middle had come first.  The shape is not right due to depending on the low cost version of TurboCAD.  The model doesn't match the original perfectly, but was fully functional.  The faceting is obvious as is the lack of taper in the fluted section of the knob, but the banding turns out to be a heated bed failure I mentioned earlier in this thread.  The next three are after a switch to FreeCAD.  The model now matches the original very well but but the prints are sparse due to a couple of things, the interface between the model details and the slicing program and problems in the extruder nozzle.  A couple of software updates on the slicer program (Cura) didn't help either.   Switched material for the rest, primarily for a better color match, but also hoping for help in the fill and strength.  The rest of the way to the end is just working through details in slicer/print setup and for extruder problems.  The final result in the second picture is fully acceptable to me, in spite of a few minor remaining flaws.  I think I know where to look for those and will hopefully improve future efforts.

I hope others can take hope from all of the failures and realize that there really is a light at the end of the tunnel.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 31, 2018, 11:24:48 pm
I'm still having mountain ranges. My last print I wanted to complete so heated the scraper and "ironed" them down during the print. Once they start they just seem to grow, but only and consistently in the same places. I've tried temps and lower seemed to help a bit, like 195, but then I'd have more adhesion problems. I tried lowering extrusion and that helped a bit, but then under-extruded in other places and adhesion problems. The mountains start on the first few layers where there is solid fill. Once I ironed them down the print usually gets into a partial fill and will be fine.


Lower Temps will reduce the viscosity of the molten plastic and so reduce oozing. That isn't a solution due to the poor layer adhesion so put that back to 200-205 (what I use on generic evilbay PLA).

1: Measure your filament some of mine has varied from 1.69 - 1.75, may not sound like much but it is over 3% which translates to under extraction if you are set at 1.75. Raising the extrusion multiplier to mask this isn't correct set it properly as a diameter in your slicer.

2: Setting an extrusion multiplier. Mark a bit of filament at 100mm apart and manually set your printer to extrude 100mm, check where the back mark is and set your multiplier based on that for a start. My CR-10 got tweaked to 1.03 and as I based my Ender profiles on that they are also 1.03 and are producing the results as per the photos.

3: Blobbing will be generally systematic and patterned as it related to retraction and to what I have seen if step 1 & 2 are somewhere near it then that is the case. Speed and amount of retraction are what you should have control over in your slicer. This is best done by experiment and I produced many many Benchy's playing with this  ::) In the end 3mm retraction and 40mm/sec worked well on PLA on my printers.

4: If your Blobs or mountains can't be fixed by this then my only other thoughts would be one or more of your axis is tight or loose causing inconsistent acceleration of the head. So basically the head passes one point to slow so it over extrudes. This isn't likely IMO but just a thought.

Be systematic, change ONE setting at a time print a sample, observe, add a note to the sample and tweak and repeat.

Only one more day of tethered internerd or else you !@@#ing contractor  :horse:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on November 01, 2018, 06:54:55 am
Got inches millimetres to spare  ;D Room for 8 rolls of filament and two on the rollers. Most likely remount most of the electronics under the cabinet, add some additional heating if needed and certainly an exhaust for ABS or other similar plastics.

Sometimes not everything can be fixed with 3D printing but hotsnot and self drilling screws are also needed. Aldi gas lift chair repair btw.

Woohoo slowDSL2band is back on.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on November 03, 2018, 02:29:22 am
One of my problems - not yet totally resolved - is blobbing which is caused by leakage around the back of the nozzle.  Tightening the nozzle has helped but I am already beyond Gootentight(with the hot end heated).  Haven't found a torque spec, and even if there was one it would be meaningless in a used hot end with residual polymer in the threads.  Most times I check tightness there is no obvious bottom, but one two occasions there seemed to be a bottom.  Either the nozzle loosens during operation or these weren't bottoms as I have subsequently been able to get more turns.

So one more possibility for you to look at Metrologist.  Look for a slowly growing blob growing around the base of the nozzle.  When it grows to the tip it messes things up.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on November 03, 2018, 03:18:20 am
You shouldn't be getting plastic between the s/steel barrel and the nozzle or near the threads. There are some very good videos on youtube about removing and reinstalling nozzles and setting the heat break correctly but the basis of it is to adjust the heat break so it mates flush with the back of the nozzle when tight. So install the nozzle back out a 1/4 turn then snug the barrel down reassemble then tighten the nozzle in lastly. If you don't do this you can get plugs of plastic stuck in this area which causes all sorts of extrusion or lack of issues.

(https://www.cnx-software.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/06/E3D-Bowden-Connector.png)

https://youtu.be/tDq1Du9gaWM (https://youtu.be/tDq1Du9gaWM)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: rdl on November 03, 2018, 05:12:48 pm
I think something like this must be what's wrong with the used Select Mini I bought a while back. It goes through the motions, but prints garbage. Now that I look, I can see plastic has oozed out where it shouldn't. I just don't have a real need to print anything right now. I guess it will go to storage for now. Good thing I didn't pay much for it, though it was probably too much anyway.

You shouldn't be getting plastic between the s/steel barrel and the nozzle or near the threads. There are some very good videos on youtube about removing and reinstalling nozzles and setting the heat break correctly but the basis of it is to adjust the heat break so it mates flush with the back of the nozzle when tight. So install the nozzle back out a 1/4 turn then snug the barrel down reassemble then tighten the nozzle in lastly. If you don't do this you can get plugs of plastic stuck in this area which causes all sorts of extrusion or lack of issues.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on November 05, 2018, 12:54:27 am
As the costs of reasonable quality printers has dropped it makes it a tough sell for any branded secondhand printer. It's not just printers by any means either the secondhand market has been ratbagged across a range of industries.

Get it fixed make a design then sit up until after midnight Sunday waiting for it to finish so you can put the base on before you get to bed  :palm:

160mm diameter, 0.1mm layers, 0.4mm walls no supports. Was getting a little touchy on the top overhang but the shallow layers kept it going. Time to try out sli3er's new selective supports and see if I can complete the ball top and then remove them without destroying the thin walls  :scared:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on November 07, 2018, 04:05:01 am
So I cheated and printed a top cap to glue in. Much faster than printing and removing the supports from a full globe. It's actually a bit bright for the small room I am testing it in with a 4W filament type LED bulb inside (very low heat output). Shadowing isn't anywhere near as pronounced to the eye.

Trip down memory lane to a hammer I made in school about 35+ years ago. Nylon Injection molded heads have finally run out so until I get some nylon to play with PETG will have to do. The 7/16 14TPI thread printed really nicely at 0.2 layer.

Rhombicuboctahedron version 1 & 2 because #1 was never going to release from the supports I started with (Da Vinci never considered 3D printing when he drew it in 1509) |O Even the reduced support one was a PITA for over 2 hours of cleanup. There is an electronic'ish purpose for the structure.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on November 09, 2018, 12:43:01 pm
Several platters of printing finishing and gluing I have a 330mm spiky ball  :o

It is actually my take on a Moravian/Christmas Star which is based on the frame from a few days ago. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moravian_star There is a few variants already around for 3D printing but none where what I wanted in virtually frameless and certainly zero fill to keep it optically as pure as possible for no internal shadowing when lit.

I have a plan to make the frame printable in a couple of parts to remove the issue of supports and the removal of |O The spikes print easily with support for the first 2mm to cover the locator lip and they are single layer wide (0.4-0.5) which are plenty strong enough just a lot of them to print. Bit of cleaning up on the seams but simple.

Anyone interested in this I will rework the frame tomorrow and post up the STL's.

Lower spikes will get glued in after the LED's Lipo and other gear goes in.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Rerouter on November 24, 2018, 09:41:18 am
To the people having extrusion issues,

1. Pull down your extruders, most of the housings have a certain level of slack in the screw holes, so you can rotate it to adjust the fit, out of the box mine prevented the release bar from properly tensioning on the filament, so I was getting poor layer adhesion and voids, and bumping up the multiplier just made things worse (leave him at 100%),

2. Measure your retraction when cold at the top of the extruder, the filament has a certain amount of stretch, so while holding the release down, note how much you extra you can push / pull at the top of the extruder, for Cartesian with direct extruders this is likely very small, but for deltas, it can be mm,

3. Have a look into your printers extruder settings if they are available, most that I have seen have there jerk rates set way too low, and acceleration too low, meaning there are times your controller is waiting for the extrusion to catch up to your motion rate.

4. for PLA, cooling is key, Even and complete coverage is best, on my delta I printed a duct to lightly blow air over the whole circumference but not directly on the nozzle, it doesn't need much in the way of flow rate, you just want the filament to solidify a few mm from when it exits the nozzle so its ready for the next layer on smaller shapes.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on November 25, 2018, 11:07:23 pm
Busy playing with my new 1000x600 CNC Router but still running some 3D printing jobs as needed.

Needed a mitre box for aluminium sections so I rolled one out (based on a lightweight flyscreen one) rather than wait for a decent one from overseas that would have cost me more $ anyway. Designed for 30x30mm maximum (180 long) but could easily be scaled up if you need. I printed mine at 4 layers and 30% infill but maybe do another layer or two if you want it really rigid. STL files in the ZIP if you want.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on December 02, 2018, 07:34:41 am
In need of a Kris Kringle present for that 'special' someone? This could be the answer.

Thanks or No thanks to the TEA thread the a Rude Octopus turned up so off to Thingiverse I went https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2986959 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2986959)

I randomly built a 555/4017 chaser circuit a while ago for fun and a demo job pre 3D printers came into my shack. Randomly the diameter of the LED's fits perfectly into Occi's errr 'feeding hole'. The effect of the rear finger is now animated and oscillatory in nature and I think works nicely. Plenty of room inside for circuitry, LED's and or a battery (or tealight as intended) but I will most likely do a variation on the chaser.

If you decide to build it watch the bottom surface it isn't dead flat so some supports are needed for the lower layers. Sorry for the poor low light video too.

https://youtu.be/UJGe3Onw5Fo (https://youtu.be/UJGe3Onw5Fo)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on January 07, 2019, 12:38:18 am
Interesting test on Breakdown Voltages of thin PLA shims. The Video is VERY LONG but the basics of it show single layer 0.2mm (single layer) breakdown about 10kV. Maybe not something to use as a reference for commercial production but good for confidence on your own projects.

https://youtu.be/ZqXQRq8As1o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Inverted18650 on January 07, 2019, 03:11:40 am
Interesting test on Breakdown Voltages of thin PLA shims. The Video is VERY LONG but the basics of it show single layer 0.2mm (single layer) breakdown about 10kV. Maybe not something to use as a reference for commercial production but good for confidence on your own projects.

Is this you and your channel?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on January 07, 2019, 03:17:27 am
No last name isn't Wong ;) .

Kerry Wong, deserves way more followers than he has but the style can be a little hard for people to enjoy I guess. Plenty of good content on all sorts of Electronics.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1TtnT24NS1v12Si2qstYZA (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1TtnT24NS1v12Si2qstYZA)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Inverted18650 on January 07, 2019, 04:06:17 am
No last name isn't Wong ;) .

Kerry Wong, deserves way more followers than he has but the style can be a little hard for people to enjoy I guess. Plenty of good content on all sorts of Electronics.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1TtnT24NS1v12Si2qstYZA (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC1TtnT24NS1v12Si2qstYZA)

I sub to Wong already, didnt click the link....DUHHHH |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 24, 2019, 04:52:14 pm
I'm gonna copy this over from the TEA channel since it is relevant... and this thread deserves more activity.  ;)

Currently printing up a couple of these; I acquired a much newer Sony BluRay for the LR, and it's a little bit thicker than my old one. These will go under the back feet of my DTS receiver to match the height so it can sit on top of the BluRay player. Old-school passive-cooled Pioneer from the "transition to DVD" period; too much heat from the top vents to have anything covering them.

I'll show y'all some pics of the finished application in the morning when they're done.  ;D

mnem
 :=\

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=686001;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=686631;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=686637;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=686643;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=686649;image)   


All done. Parts popped off the tile ready to use this morning; zero cleanup required.  :-+  It's applications like this where I see FDM 3DP being a real, reasonable change to our everyday lives; simple widgety things where you need something that fits "just right" but would be more hassle than its worth to make by hand.

Literally 10 minutes in Fusion and Cura; 5 minutes prep on the printer (including cleaning and fresh coat of hairspray...  :P ) and 5-6 hours of the printer working by itself while I do other things.  ;D

mnem
"widget... widget-widget..."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 24, 2019, 08:35:39 pm
This thread does need some more love. Content in TEA gets lost all to fast  ;)

I heard this following video was coming up hopefully Stefan (highly recommended channel) will do a followup with some smaller sizes more commonly used in electronics. I use a bunch of them in my designs from M2-M6. From M5 or 6 and up I do a mix of inserts or modeled threads.

My recent double fan mount with M4's inserted works a treat.

https://youtu.be/iR6OBlSzp7I
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: NiHaoMike on March 24, 2019, 10:04:19 pm
One trick for the displacement type self tapping screws is to start tightening it until you feel resistance, then back out and in about 1/4 or a turn or so a few times and it would have heated up by friction to the point it softens the plastic, at which point the screw will go a little further then before. Repeat until the screw is all the way in, then wait for it to cool down. The result is well formed threads for that particular screw.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 25, 2019, 02:37:07 am
I've been doing RC modeling for 4 decades; the Japanese and later Chinese/Tiawanese manufacturers of plastic aircraft, boats and vehicles all have done whole vehicles assembled with machine screws threaded directly into plastic, some as small as m2. Nylon and poly both lend themselves to this kind of assembly, as the self-threading process acts as a locking mechanism, as long as your threaded boss is sufficiently over-deep. ABS is tricky, as it will gall at low temperature, ripping the material off the walls of the hole.

There are tables for the more common nylon, poly and GF nylon that include raw hole size, RPM and feed rates and even ambient temperatures for best "machine screw self-threading" results in these materials. I can't find them right now, but Tamiya and Kyosho both have published this info at one time or another.

@beanflying - Smeesh! I've bolted down 120mm fans with a couple m2 screws because that was all the material I had to work with... m4 is a bit excessive even by my standards, at least when you consider that these fans are most commonly installed into plastic bosses with m2.5 or m3 self-tappers.  :o

Of course, this project is a great choice for getting practice at installing those brass inserts; they do require different techniques depending on the manufacturer and how they've knurled the outer surface.  :-+

Cheers,

mnem
MAXIM 37: "There is no 'overkill.' There is only 'open fire' and 'I need to reload'."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 25, 2019, 02:49:56 am
Fan holes were 4mm and I had the 4mm hardware on hand already. Weight is a non issue and cost differential $0.50 maybe?

Not shown is the length of silicone model aircraft fuel tube wedged between the two chambers for the single fan test push pull test. I no longer have need of Methanol and stinky planes so a good use for it ;)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 25, 2019, 03:06:10 am
Good thinking! We don't want that fan cavitating.  :-+

I thought about trying to seal to the surface of those fins when I made my suggestion earlier, as the way you have those sinks assembled really does pretty well isolate things; but it seemed just cutting a bit of cardboard to slip in the right slot and done with it was a lot less ass-ache.  ;)

mnem
*toddling off to ded*   :=\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 28, 2019, 05:41:30 am
The following might be of use to those with 300x300x400 CR-10's and their clones. In my case done for keeping the printer clean and also raising the ambient temperature around the prints.

CR-10 Enclosure 1 sheet 1220x2440x18 MDF. Old school 8'x4' size is needed for the plan attached and it could be squeezed on a metric 1200x2400 but it is already squeezy in height and width. The electronics will be mounted outside on the wall and the spool holder will sit inside on the left hand side. Length of the enclosure could be shortened slightly but leaving it long allows plenty of room for the bed heater wiring and the spool at the front.

Rather than have neat dowel or biscuit joints I opted for an easy solution using the accurate 900 cut rear panel and 4 lengths of aluminium angle and screwed together with a bead of glue on the joints. I suspect this is as strong or stronger than dowels.

Front doors are overlapping 5mm acrylic to minimise heat loss and full length piano hinges for the same reason. Plenty of other ways to do it but this allows the printer to easily be installed or removed for any major reason. I haven't decided to fit upper and lower draught door seals yet but there is a phase two planned for maybe additional heating and fume extraction. If anyone wanted to save some money then using some more of the sheet with smaller acrylic windows makes sense. Acrylic cost as much as the sheet of timber in my case.

First two coats of oil based varnish and one more to go should do it. No plans to finish the inside with anything as it isn't needed.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 04, 2019, 07:21:18 am
So it now has doors, draught stoppers and magnetic latches. 3D printed door hardware apart from the Piano hinge. It doesn't really need an upper magnetic latch but I think I will fit one regardless. All parts printed on the Ender Pro in PLA.

Magnets are 20x5x3 and are buried 2.5mm into the base and still plenty of power to hold the doors closed. Had to use salvaged screws as I generally keep only s/steel in stock  :palm:

The 'spare block' was actually a drill guide I made from the Fusion 360 sketches. I have been making these for some builds as the measurements are already there and as a one shot don't take long to print and make for a better and easier assembly job.

Time for the electrical fit out on the side and get it back into service.  :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 05, 2019, 10:10:30 pm
Awww, man... all these renovations are gonna make my rent go through the roof!  :-DD

Surprised you didn't print up multiple sets of lift-off or spring-loaded ball snap-in hinges. 3 a side should do, even with flexy-plexi.

mnem
I still wanna move in tho. Is next Tuesday good?  :P

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 06, 2019, 12:02:24 am
I seriously looked at making hinges but decided the piano option gave me sufficient draught stopping I needed as well. Top door gap was set to under 1mm so I haven't worried about a seal along it at this stage.

If my current tenant throws a hissy fit and leaves I will let you know what the rent is  ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 09, 2019, 03:38:07 am
 :-DD

mnem
*unhinged*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 14, 2019, 11:27:41 am
Random Clippy bit on a set of shack shears on Sunday Night. Original got dropped while open and broke off. 11 minute print drawn in the add breaks while watching a Movie sipping on a Scotch. Not cost effective if you factor time spent but satisfying.

Whoever said Males cant multitask was wrong  ;)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 19, 2019, 08:13:48 am
Random Clippy thing. My desoldering gun has had cable ties on it to hold the Vac line to the power line as all but two of the original clips had broken. Should suit 5.5-6mm Cables or hoses of various sorts for otyher things too.

STL in the Zip and if you need it don't be lazy and learn some CAD Basics and make your own :horse:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 23, 2019, 03:41:17 am
I'm going to post this in here for those who don't frequent the TEA; it is 3DP brilliance:

https://youtu.be/xoxhDk-hwuo

Heh.  :-+

mnem
3DP: It's what's for dinner.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 23, 2019, 07:47:14 am
The inclusion of the Fart Bomb took it up another several hundred percent on the bastard scale :-DD

Random on my Youtube today was a young kid (Young to me but I am old) who made a small centrifugal separator. Needs a post filter on the outlet  but otherwise it might suit Electronics use under the bench for removing dust bunnies from gear without the need to roll out the Shop Vac. Think I will roll one to fit to my small 3020 Router rebuild/enclosure project.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3574173 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3574173) Link to the STL's

https://youtu.be/RtGDuiBodaQ (https://youtu.be/RtGDuiBodaQ)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 23, 2019, 02:41:03 pm
I know... the fart bomb was sheer genius, plus it actually has strategic as well as personal satisfaction value!  :-+

I'm guessing that the last victim though... Mark totally (and probably unintentionally) nerd-sniped (https://xkcd.com/356/) him; instead of throwing it away, I think he took it apart and actually got himself a bit of a prize. 4 phones to eBay, plus some custom parts to tinker with... if he were really ingenious, he could nuke/pave the phones and co-opt the whole damned thing; play the same prank on someone else!



Thanks... now you've got me thinking about ways to mod his design to fit a brushless motor and incorporate the dust box... Like I don't already have enough to think about.  |O

mnem
You just LIVE to poke dwagons with a stick, donchoo?!?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 24, 2019, 03:14:58 am
And in case anyone wants to build the 3d Printed CNC shown he designed. Also covered in an Indestructable and a bunch of other videos on his channel. https://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-3D-Printed-Dremel-CNC/ (https://www.instructables.com/id/DIY-3D-Printed-Dremel-CNC/)

Someone should hire this kid before he finishes School.

https://youtu.be/8LewIrPtyYs (https://youtu.be/8LewIrPtyYs)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 24, 2019, 05:19:32 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=714840;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=714882;image)

I'm back, baybee!


This all started when bitseeker finally decided to adopt my venerable old 454 and give it the attention it deserves but I could no longer provide. Once I had a taker on the old girl, I realized I would need to pack it so it got there in one piece; I literally spent half a day trying to think of a way I could pack it and reasonably expect it to make it all the way there without one or more delicate knobs getting effed up... in the end I realized there was no other way but to print up a front cover for it, as the real thing is pretty much rare as unicorn poop, and priced accordingly.

So I spent another afternoon designing it, and then I had some issues with my printer not liking the Gcode and randomly trying to print the damned thing at like 60% scale one time and then 100% the next... with the same exact file! I resliced it and STILL the same problem... so I powered through and eventually got a good start printing.

After a 40 hour print, it FINALLY printed successfully... and I put it on the floor and STOOD ON IT with all my 300 lbs.  :scared:  And it HELD.  : :-+  I'm pretty pleased, actually... all the fails manifested right at the beginning, and were relatively easy to resolve before finally setting my Tornado to print for a FULL WORK WEEK straight!

Trial-fitting was less than perfect; it was a "tight press-fit". I had to thump the cover on with the heel of my big ol' Shrek hamhands, but it would at least go on all the way. I found that the radius of the corners was NOT a perfect match to the outer bezel of the 454; this may have been an error on my part measuring the radius, or it may have been due to my having to rescale the entire model to 0.982 because of a measurement error I made when I was starting the project.  :palm:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=715248;image)   Once I touched up the inside corners with a heat gun I was able to get a moderate press-fit on the 454's outer bezel, I declared success and took a few victory pics, then it was time to pack up my old beast...  :-[  ...and now to the details of the print:

So... what settings?

0.2mm LH, 60/30mm speed, 30% GRID infill with "Connect Infill Lines" enabled at 10% overlap for strength. 1.2mm on all outer surfaces, 200°C printhead temp for PLA+, 75°C bed temp with 12x12 Lowes mirror tile print surface. Brim adhesion enabled, with supports everywhere at default angle.


The supports actually seemed to help; they only generated a few layers around the area between the brim and the front curved surface, but those compound curves turned out much more uniform with zero "straggler" strands of filament in the outer surface.  :-+

And YES, I used hairspray... I was NOT going to give Murphy an excuse to eff things up halfway through such a long print!  :P And I got a near-mirror surface anyways, so win-win!

I've been having issues with pulling/premature release on the outer edges/corners of large prints correlating with measured uneven heating on the bed with the mirror tiles. I suspected this was due in part to heat loss caused by layers of ceramic-glass bed and glass tile with essentially an insulative layer of plastic (the clone Build-Tak surface) in between. In hopes of maintaining adhesion over such a long, large print... I cranked up the bed heat to 75°C to compensate. It worked here... but as many have warned it would do, the Tevo "Build-Tak" clone print surface has bubbled. I'm going to have to remove it.  |O But SUCCESS HERE ON THIS PRINT!  :clap:

You all have NO IDEA how hard it was for me NOT to plaster the thread with all these pics, as I checked in on the print over a day and a half:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=714846;image)   1) A good start...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=714852;image)   2) Good inner face and walls...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=714858;image)   3) Almost...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=714864;image)   4) Done! Now... to wait an hour for it to cool completely so I don't rip its face off trying to separate it...  EFF THAT!!! Turn the ceiling fan on high and crank the AC down to 67°F!!! 30 minutes of snap, crackle, pop later... it jumped off by itself right into my hot little hands!  >:D

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=714870;image)   5) I totally eyeball-measured the location of this slot for the latch-catch... I got it pretty close. But the depth I deliberately got just right so you COULD add spring-steel hooks to snap onto these catches, if you so desire.  :-+

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=714876;image)   6) However, I did NOT make allowances for the rubber feet that belong here. That didn't even dawn on me until it was halfway through the print.  :palm: I still don't care; I'm dead-chuffed with the results, because:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=714882;image)   7) MONEY SHOT!!!  :clap:

mnem
Thanks bean, for giving us a place to natter about our silly little projects! :-+

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 27, 2019, 01:50:21 am
Guess the print's application. 5 printed parts on slotted holes on the main saddle and two small heatsinks. The lower flanges are a 4" clearance fit.

1/2 way there only 10 more hours to go barring mishaps  :palm:

Hows the Drawing tweakage coming along @mnementh?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 05, 2019, 06:00:09 am
So today I had a Ender Pro Fail issue with a chunk coming out of the Magnetic Surface. It has been coming for a while now and I have had the Glass since before Christmas waiting for the Magnetic Bed to fail.

Several reasons to dump the magnetic one, operating temperature being one, the magnets limit it's use to PLA or careful PETG use. It also struggles at 0.1mm layer heights of which I do a fair bit of as it is soft and gives rather than holds level under the nozzle making it hard to get a good first layer. So Glass it is and I chose to give the Creality Borosilicate one a go eBay auction: #142880909672 Plenty of options to buy but I got mine from their local drop warehouse.

The old magnetic bottom layer peeled much easier than I expected with the adhesive staying bonded to it over the Aluminium. The Glass was still in range of Adjustment without changing the Z limit switch but I did move it up about 2mm to avoid squashing the springs to much.

Would I re buy another Magnetic plate over glass? NO for me but at well into 100-200 prints it isn't a deal breaker at $0.15-30/print and if you kept at 0.2mm layers most likely a lot more.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: aargee on May 05, 2019, 08:14:17 am
I think the extra Boro glass is a bit overrated compared to normal glass. I've been using glass mirror tiles in preference to my borosilicate sheet I have (initially because the boro sheet was sharp and not bevelled edges).
Mirror tiles are cheap, I bought 200x200mm as a pack of five, they are sold often for wedding table decorations, they are all primed with hairspray and can be swapped as needed. I've had absolutely no problems with heat or cracking up to 60C bed temps.
May be a little small for Enders but work fine on my Cocoon/Wanhao i3s.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 05, 2019, 10:01:05 am
The Edges on the Creality/Ender Borosilicate are in line with the edges on my CR-10 so no issues on that front. Touch wood I am still on the first Glass on my CR-10 but mirror tiles seem like the cheap and good way to go.

Generally I use 55C on uber clean Glass for PLA without adhesive which seems to work for me but 70C for PETG. Now I have my printers in enclosures I want to have a bash with ABS and some of the other odd ones.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 07, 2019, 01:03:34 am
Now done a few prints on the Boro and also a couple on the back smooth side with Glu stick. Front side at my stock PLA temps works well and releases easily when cool no evidence of lifting and I have done the duct shown and another flat 130mm panel plus some smaller ones.

Calling it a good thing at this stage but I might chase up a plain glass one for my other Ender Pro.

Airflow Meter 4" ID Duct clip on adapter shown
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on May 07, 2019, 06:05:04 am
Following this thread is going to get me into so much trouble....
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 07, 2019, 11:09:28 am
Following this thread is going to get me into so much trouble....

Only a little more trouble than you are in already I suspect. Start with some CAD/Fusion it is a no cost gateway drug  :-DD

Today's project I want a universal mount system to suit the Uni-T Enviro range. http://www.uni-trend.com/html/product/Environmental/Environmental_Tester/Mini/ (http://www.uni-trend.com/html/product/Environmental/Environmental_Tester/Mini/) I have a couple of these and want a simple way to mount them to things by a few different options from tripods to woven straps or anything needed. The BT versions do come with a 1/4-20 insert for tripod mount but the entry level ones don't.

Fusion workflow start by modelling the dimensions and design of the Uni-T and then use that to extrude an over size block into effectively a hollow one. Next step is cut away the bits I don't need and start adding a bit of shape.

Just to make sure it will fit drop a rough one onto the Printer then tweak as needed. When it is a good solid fit then add the mounts needed to the lower plate and finish styling. Part of this approach gives my the basics of another matching enclosure for devices of my own concoction.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 08, 2019, 01:34:57 am
So V1 was a little tight for length. So take the inner model and use the very handy Shell command in Fusion to increase it by 0.6mm on all faces. Reprint overnight and shake inverted to test  :-+

Now for the easy bits adding some mounts for the bottom. But first the Coffee!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: NW27 on May 08, 2019, 12:05:36 pm
Hi
Did you print that on its end?
Layer wise this would be the strongest but a bit of a challenge to print.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 08, 2019, 12:14:54 pm
On the Flat. From the first to second prints as well as making it bigger I also fattened up the vertical webs a touch. I am printing PLA 200C so the layer adhesion is fairly good. As none of the angles are below 45 degrees either it doesn't need supports. None of these devices weigh much either.

Finished of the lower part design today and went two part held together with 3mm c/sunk screws and knurl nuts. Has a slot for 1" webbing and a 1/4-20 Tripod thread. Or if it was going to be shaken badly a cable tie could be run through the slot too.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 09, 2019, 11:36:31 am
Love it when a plan comes together - Hannibal Smith/Peppard not Neeson ;D

Simple print because of the split and works a treat. Yep the rubberised feet on the tripod need some glue.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a07cBdQ1DTY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a07cBdQ1DTY)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 14, 2019, 10:34:57 am
Calling the bed a winner 24 hours in and out to the bed limits with no lifting only another 8 or so hours to go. Ordering a matching one for my CR-10S

Toilet seat for a Leprechaun maybe?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 22, 2019, 10:05:15 am
Needed a set of Din Rail mounts for a personal job. Grabbed this set of mounts https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3640994/files (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3640994/files) dragged them into Fusion 360 and converted the STL to a Brep format. Added the top I needed and mirrored the body. Easy with practice, maybe not up to a full blown commercial switchboard but more than up to my horizontal 100kg lump of hardware.

Installed and done in under a few hours.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: MyHeadHz on September 23, 2019, 03:01:54 am
I see a big fan sucking heat from that box... aren't you worried about the PLA getting hot enough to fail?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 23, 2019, 03:26:14 am
There is several layers of steel and a large airgap between the gear bay for a start Above that bay there is a constant airflow drawing air from low to high on the roasting chamber. Generally peak temps are circa 50C in the middle of the bay. I must get around to getting some ABS for these sorts of jobs now I have my printers in cabinets or I could have dropped some PETG in too but the PLA was already loaded.

If it was a vertical mount or subject to mechanical strain/vibration then a different material would be well worth it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 01, 2019, 05:52:11 am
Moving into a more appropriate discussion space.....

The idea of getting a 3D printer has been floating around my head for some time.  So has the idea of a laser cutter.

My big ideas centre around a motion system supporting a laser cutter that can operate over a work area of 3' x 4' (915mm x 1220mm).  The frame will allow pass through access for material so that a 4ft wide sheet of something can be worked on without having been pre-dissected.  Ultimate objective is to be able to take a 2.4m x 1.2m sheet of 12mm plywood and cut pieces out.  That is in the concept stage and for the mean time, I'll be absorbing as much info as I can from others (Yes, I am taking in Russ Sadler's material, among others.)

Should such a beast ever come to be, I would venture a thought in adapting the motion system for 3D printing - but there are several not insignificant hurdles that may make such a proposition impractical.  But, hey, trying to see how far I could go will keep me off the streets.

Nevertheless, in the short term, entering the 3D printing world has progressed from building a DIY, cheap-ass clone of the Prusa I3 with scrap from around the garage to a complete kit.  I have no qualms about assembly.  I would enjoy that.

Beanflying and others had me interested in the Ender 3 - enough for me to have added it to my eBay watchlist with a strong intent to pull the trigger next payday.  However, the price has increased enough to make me baulk.  I had prepared myself for a spend something under AUD$400, which needed to include some extra filament.  With the price increase, that filament list got shorter.   :(

One of my concerns is getting decent quality filament at a reasonable price, so once I dive in, any pointers would be very helpful.  Yes, I'll start out with PLA - but down the track I will certainly want to try things in PETG and ABS .. perhaps even getting more adventurous.  But I'm getting ahead of myself.


For the present, my immediate interest is in acquisition of a 3D printer.  This will be my first machine, but it does not have to be cocooned.  The ability to have broad control over operation suits my brain.  Heated bed is a must and I would want a build volume no smaller than the Ender 3.  Speed would need to be reasonable and accuracy of the motion system must not be crap.

So I invite those who have achieved success in this field to sing the praises of their favourites - and any recommendations for a supplier that can competently handle a customer in Sydney, Australia will be appreciated.  This also goes for filament.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 01, 2019, 06:08:45 am
Pricing seems similar to what I paid. The best deal is not always the obvious one with Creality and a lot of Chinese sellers.

About the best deal on an Ender Pro from Creality themselves with a 'free' roll of black PLA is here eBay auction: #143029694885@ $352 AUD (so printer circa $330). Much as some debate goes on about the Pro vs Stock IMO the extras are worth it and so is the Glass Bed at some stage over the Magnetic one in particular you will need to for ABS and you are pushing the magnets fairly hard even at PETG temps.

One of the suppliers I had used for PLA a bit in Sydney seems to have dropped carrying Filament but there will be plenty @ $20-22/roll for PLA.

Re Laser Russ's videos are great. This DIY as his second build looks worth a follow too. https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ72zDm2feverqV7qAbNH7Q (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ72zDm2feverqV7qAbNH7Q) Also maybe swing by here https://rdworkslab.com/ (https://rdworkslab.com/) seems I know one of the moderators  :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 01, 2019, 06:58:40 am
About the best deal on an Ender Pro from Creality themselves with a 'free' roll of black PLA is here eBay auction: #143029694885@ $352 AUD (so printer circa $330).

Doesn't seem to have the glass bed.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 01, 2019, 07:02:34 am
That one doesn't but for $346 (same link) you get the glass bed but no PLA so either or for about the same $. The Magnetic bed (it will still do PETG circa 70C bed) is in some ways easier to get started but I prefer the glass and the higher temps are a factor as I do a bit of PETG. There is nothing to be saved by looking overseas as by the time you get slugged GST from most platforms ex Sydney is cheaper.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tautech on October 01, 2019, 07:26:16 am
Waddabout Banggood ?
https://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-3D-Printer-and-Supplies-c-3533.html?akmClientCountry=NZ&from=nav (https://www.banggood.com/Wholesale-3D-Printer-and-Supplies-c-3533.html?akmClientCountry=NZ&from=nav)

If you link to there from Defpom he gets a tiny cut.
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2z3V9RkHQE1CvQF2iDmPqMtYvrKE73v0 (https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2z3V9RkHQE1CvQF2iDmPqMtYvrKE73v0)
Find one of his vids with some Banggood links listed below.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 01, 2019, 07:41:27 am
Would finish up 10% on top of those prices which are about the same as the Creality store in Sydney. I got my first Creality printer ex China on Ali Express just before our wonderful politicians decided to collect Tax on all imports regardless of value instead of $1k+ as it had been for 15+ years. This was part of the reason I brought my Sig Gen local over a cheaper base price ex USA.

What this has done is in some ways a good thing in that Chinese online suppliers have setup local drop shipment arrangements which are in a lot of cases very close to or cheaper than ex China. Not to mention next or day after for Brumby and even 3-4 days to me.

Just checked the Bangood option btw ex Au drop shipped $330 + 10% GST so $366 for the magnetic bed option without a 'free' roll of filament.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 01, 2019, 08:24:13 am
About the best deal on an Ender Pro from Creality themselves with a 'free' roll of black PLA is here eBay auction: #143029694885

Which begs the question: Just how much filament is on those rolls?  I can't find any reference to that in the listing.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 01, 2019, 08:43:59 am
300m generally. 'Normal' spools of PLA are either 1 or 1.2kg (less common)

To give you an idea that split case I sent you in the goody bag a while back is just on 10m of Filament per half. So you get 15 cases per $20 roll as a rough number. The Jiffy box case is about 25m of filament so under $2 each.

These rough costs will vary with perimeter and infill ratios but 4 layers and 25% for them is what the numbers are based on.

Suggested re filaments for a first stash Black, Clear and a colour but Red or Orange maybe. White has a place but I prefer the look or the clear in nearly all use cases.

Files for the jiffy box here btw https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg1838297/#msg1838297 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg1838297/#msg1838297)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 01, 2019, 10:02:48 am
I'm doubting that for this listing.  The difference between "with" and "without" is $10 ... and they have "sample" rolls of 0.2 kg separately available for $11.60.  I'd go with those being the ones included.

I can see filament costs as something to keep an eye on.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 01, 2019, 10:17:55 am
The 200g rolls are 'cute' but that is about all. As you will find even if you are to fit up a filament sensor having to change rolls mid print doesn't always go well.

Costs really are moderate this lamp shade for example was only about 30m of Filament https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg1717796/#msg1717796 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg1717796/#msg1717796) so even allowing for some power to run the printer well under $4 ready to install. It's the big bulky thick parts that chew up time and filament but with some playing with infill or even sculpting parts of it away if not needed for strength that can be reduced a lot.

The $0.01 cent stubbie opener back earlier in this thread I tweaked is what I run to use up scrap or end of rolls. Depending on what you finish up using it for figure out one that needs less than 10m of filament be it a kids toy etc.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: MyHeadHz on October 01, 2019, 05:35:01 pm
Here's my knowledge dump for you.  Hopefully you will find some information below that is useful for you.  :)

Firstly, both the Ender 3 and the CR-10 that were mentioned are both good choices.

That being said, testimonials in the 3d printing world are all but useless.  A huge proportion of the issues blamed on the printer, the filaments, print quality, and overall success rate in general is operator error.  There are several major factors, but the most common ones are: improper settings (software/input), improper setup (hardware and installation), and improper maintenance (which includes moist/non-dry filament).

Someone mentioned in another thread about the Ender 3 and the CR-10.  One major difference is printable dimensions (build volume).  For the CR-10, it is 12x12x15.5 (inches).  For the Ender 3, it is 8.6x8.6x9.8 (inches).  Keep in mind that those are max dimensions, assuming that everything was set up perfectly. In reality, nothing is ever perfect (many factors come into play), so your build volume will be slightly to significantly smaller, for all practical purposes.  You should expect to get 85-95% of the stated useful dimensions, if set up properly.  Also keep in mind that you might be able to print outside of that area, but your dimensional accuracy will go down and your chances of a failed or poor quality print go up.

Size.  The Ender 3 is a nice product at a nice price, but it really limits you on build volume.  You can make up for it somewhat by printing at an angle, but sometimes that is not practical for structural rigidity of the part or other reasons.  Carefully consider what items you would and would not be able to produce into your budget for the projects.  It may be in your best interest to hold off until you can put some more into it.  The other size issue is physical size.  Look at the dimensions and take a tape measure to your desired place for it.  It needs to be sturdy and level, and big enough to work and for you to be able to adjust and work with it.  The CR-10 is significantly bigger and takes up more space.  So just do the math and measurements and pick what is best for your purposes.  It is also worth mentioning that you need to reserve that space for the printer, and and make sure you're OK with that.  Moving or re-packing it requires significant effort, and that is a pain in the butt, which discourages use of it at all. 

If you plan to use ABS, you should enclose it for best results, FYI.  You also need good ventilation, esp with ABS.

The Ender 3 is sturdier, which will allow you to print faster before getting "ghosting" (vibration/oscillation artifacts).  The CR-10 is still capable of the same great print quality, but you need to print more slowly... perhaps significantly more slowly.  That means print times that can be 2x or more vs what would be required on the smaller printer, especially with "taller" prints.

Most 3D printers, including the two mentioned above, have bowden (aka bowden tube) extruders.  There are also "direct drive" extruders.  Bowden extruders are the best option for most, but for some use cases, like flexible filaments, you need direct drive.  The main down side for direct drive extruders is a lot more weight on the print head assembly, which can cause a lot of issues.  I recommend researching it a bit to see what is best for you, but it will probably be bowden.

Setup is very important.  Your printer needs to be on a flat surface with good contact to the surface.  If anything is wobbly or vibrates, you need to fix it for best print results.  It is also important to use a level and triangle.  This will ensure that the printer dimensions are proper among the parts of the printer, and with the ground/earth.  This all ensures that when you adjust a given axis input, you are only adjusting that one dimension.

Again, a lot of the above is optimal, but not necessarily required.  Just keep in mind that the more you skimp on doing it properly, the more likely you will end of on reviews somewhere complaining about crap products.  :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on October 02, 2019, 12:19:38 am
I think MyHeadHz pretty well nails it.  I have an Ender3 with glass bed.  After a world of teething pains involving me learning how to set it up and how to keep it set up properly I am getting reliable and usable prints with regularity.  Little things like the cable routing.  On the Ender 3 if not done properly the cables can rub the bed leveling knobs, changing this critical adjustment each time you print.  This may not be limited to the Ender 3.

I will also comment that I would not obsess about build volume.  I find that the Ender 3 can print almost anything that I am willing to wait for.  Prints that use a large portion of the Ender 3s build volume take multiple days to print.  Think of what MyHeadHz's comment about the CR-10 print speed means to the time to print something using that larger volume.

There have been a few occasions where I couldn't print a thin part because of build volume limits, but so far I have been able to re design such parts as assemblies that fit within the limits.

I have used a variety of materials and so far, after initial dial in of temps and other settings have had no problems.  Including TPU, a flexible filament using the Bowden tube.  My material of choice for general parts is TPA+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 02, 2019, 12:48:01 am
I agree about the Ender with volume. My CR-10S gets far less use by percentage of prints than the Enders do each. 'Most' of my Electronic bits in particular fit easily into the build volume of the Enders and much bigger and you find the limits of even the 10S bed. What I have found myself wanting occasionally is even more bed space than the 10S and I am considering looking at building an option for this with far less height than the normal 500x500xZ printers have 200 to maybe 300mm is plenty of Z for most of what I consider 'sensible' to 3D print.

This new Laser frame was actually printed on the Enders including the nearly 300mm Rails in PLA. Worked fine on the diagonal and screwed together with brass inserts. The CR-10 wouldn't have gained me anything in this case other than I could have dumped all four parts on the bed and set it running but two Enders was faster. https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/40w-300x200mm-laser-cutter-engraver-vollerun/msg2405631/#msg2405631 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/40w-300x200mm-laser-cutter-engraver-vollerun/msg2405631/#msg2405631)

For big flat slabs having a Laser Cutter in your toy collection is a good thing too  >:D enable enable enable .......  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 02, 2019, 08:07:29 am
Thank you all for the input so far.

I am well acquainted with the issues of speed, temperature, bed heat, levelling, rigidity and so on.  Not how to deal with them (yet), just to understand they are factors that can drastically affect results.  You can be pretty sure I will be getting the geometry spot on for any required assembly.  I know I will only be able to fully appreciate the subtleties once I have dived in - but I believe I will find my way.  (Yes, I know - that's an invitation for Murphy.)

The Ender 3 is my most likely entry point.  Build volume will be an issue at some time in the future - but I'm content to run with the Ender 3 limitations for the time being.  After that, I'll probably head down the laser path (keeping out of the path of the laser  ;D ).  I haven't decided if I will get a cheapie Chinese machine or dive headlong into my larger format DIY idea.  That decision is further down the track.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tszaboo on October 02, 2019, 09:05:24 am
I have an Ender 3 pro. I dont think I would want a printer with bigger build volume, unless it prints a lot faster. The only annoying thing about it is the bed levelling, and some of the mechanical problems, that are easy to solve. After getting it, you might want to spend a few hours upgrading it, printing stuff for upgrading the machine. You also want to spend 1-2 kg of filament learning. Otherwise it is cheap to own, cheap to run. I haven't seen a reason to print anything other than PLA, but I dont want to print load bearing structural elements or water pipes or something.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: janoc on October 02, 2019, 10:09:05 am
PLA is easier to print but PETG, Gfil and ABS are both more temperature resistant and much easier to post treat/machine than PLA is.

So if you are planning on printing anything that may need to be sanded/filed or be exposed to heat higher than 60 degrees or so, you will need other materials than PLA.

I agree with the issue of the printing volume - my Mendel90 has only about 200x200x200mm printing volume and I rarely if ever use the entire bed. It is just not practical to print objects that large - it would take ages (days) and the risk of failure (e.g. something warping/cracking or the filament running out/snapping) is much higher with such a long print.

In my experience it is best to combine the fabrication methods - use subtractive methods (sawing, drilling, milling, etc.) to manufacture the bulk of whatever large object you need to build and use 3D printing for smaller things with complicated shapes, such as various brackets, fittings, etc. And then screw/glue them together. It makes zero sense to spend hours printing a large base plate for something if it is mostly flat and can be cut out of a sheet of material in a tiny fragment of the time that it would take to print it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 02, 2019, 10:44:48 am
Composite construction techniques are something that I would definitely include in my solution seeking.  Speed of fabrication, cost of materials, reprinting one part of an assembly if it fails rather than a huge component - these are just a few of the practical application considerations that I agree should be part of the engineering.

PLA is just the filament I plan to start with.  It seems the most appropriate material to get my feet wet ... and hopefully minimal  |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 02, 2019, 11:57:40 am
I have an Ender 3 pro. I dont think I would want a printer with bigger build volume, unless it prints a lot faster. The only annoying thing about it is the bed levelling, ...

If you already know this then disregard ...

But if you don't - flash your Ender with the Marlin firmware and nuke the Creality firmware. Then enable manual mesh bed leveling menu item in the build and it will have a new menu item on the printer. This type of leveling made a dramatic quality improvement in my prints ESPECIALLY the first layer(s). You can read up on manual mesh bed leveling yourself elsewhere, but I recommend it without reservation.  :-+

http://marlinfw.org/ (http://marlinfw.org/)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Fire Doger on October 02, 2019, 12:18:58 pm
32bit MCU control board with TMC drivers.
The best upgrade to any low budget printer but needs some basic knowledge of mcu.
I use an SKR V1.3 which fits inside ender 3 compartment with a 3d printed bracket.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 02, 2019, 12:55:01 pm
TMC drivers are definitely in the line-up for my own build.

32bit MCU?  Seems a bit ahead of the curve, but it's not something I would ignore.  While I'm not against getting my hands dirty on the processor side, I'm not inclined to dive too deeply.  This is not a development area for me - just one where I would expect a reasonably modest amount of configuration.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 02, 2019, 01:58:56 pm
Because a printer doesn't have a 32 bit board isn't a reason not to buy it but for a manufacturer not to step up to 32 bit now the cost differential is nearly zero in relation to a printer the time should be coming.

Hot off youtube a newer and slightly less horrid Anet printer  :o No way I would suffer one but maybe if you are the masochistic type.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qlpdI1kTV4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3qlpdI1kTV4)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: janoc on October 02, 2019, 02:07:10 pm
TMC drivers are definitely in the line-up for my own build.

Um, guys, beware with those TMC drivers.

I have upgraded my machine with TMC2130 recently and it has not been smooth sailing, by far. In fact, unless you are annoyed by the "Terminator" noise the usual Allegro A4988 produce, I wouldn't bother. Only switch drivers if you have the TI DRV8825 or similar, which have known issues, requiring fudges like "smoothers" (= 4 diodes dropping the motor voltage to make the driver behave and sold for exorbitant prices).

The benefits of the Trinamic drivers are minimal - the fact that the driver supports 128x or 256x microstepping or step interpolation doesn't mean you will get smoother print! The machine tolerances will be a much larger factor and the stepper motor may not even be able to keep up with so fast pulse trains. So you end up with 16x or 32x microstepping as with the Allegro driver - but you have paid quite a bit more for it!

The only somewhat relevant thing you can't get elsewhere is the StallGuard feature, that could prevent damage to the machine if you manage to crash it. However, then on the Z axis the mechanical advantage of the leadscrews is such that the machine will get damaged way before the StallGuard triggers (and you can't turn the threshold so low to avoid it, otherwise it could trigger accidentally mid-print as well).

I wrote about my misadventures with the Trinamic drivers on my blog:
https://janoc.rd-h.com/archives/770

But in short:

- The drivers do get hot, heatsinks and potentially a fan are a must otherwise the driver could start limiting current or even shut down mid-print. Never had such issues with the A4988.

- The Trinamic drivers are rated for less current - ok for lights machines but my Mendel90 throwing around a heavy Wade's extruder pushing 3mm filament gives them quite a workout. Running the machine from 12V doesn't help neither, many of the Chinese printers run from 24V, so less current is needed.

- If you have dual drive on the Z axis (each screw has its own motor), the silent "stealthchop" mode will most likely go completely haywire and could even cause breakage to the machine because the motors will be driven out of sync.

- StealhChop includes also step interpolation (the "MicroPlyer" feature), which has issues with missed steps (see here:
https://forum.raise3d.com/viewtopic.php?t=6013)

So given that the biggest selling points of these drivers either don't really work well or the benefit isn't all that great, I wouldn't rush into buying them. I certainly wouldn't have had I known this. Many people have used these successfully but don't rush into buying these expecting that they will make your prints better. They won't and they may not even work in your printer to begin with.

32bit MCU?  Seems a bit ahead of the curve, but it's not something I would ignore.  While I'm not against getting my hands dirty on the processor side, I'm not inclined to dive too deeply.  This is not a development area for me - just one where I would expect a reasonably modest amount of configuration.

You definitely want a 32bit CPU. The 8bit boards based on the various ATMegas are being pushed to their absolute limits with the current Marlin. Both in terms of memory (e.g. the reason for me replacing the electronics on my machine was that the Melzi board I had just couldn't fit Marlin compiled with bed leveling support!) and also in terms of computing power.

32bit CPUs have no issues doing complex bezier interpolations, leading to much less stress on the machine (vibration) and better quality prints, all the while driving an LCD, talking to the host computer and/or communicating over wifi, all at the same time. You just can't do that with a slow ATMega, those are being pushed to their limits just driving the stepper motors already.

If you are hoping to update the machine to support some newer features like the automatic bed leveling, definitely go for a 32bit board (or a machine that has one already).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 03, 2019, 07:59:36 am
Just adding this here as well as it getting lost in the TEA thread.

Lisence Agreement - Use it hack it is all good but sell it for $ and I will hunt you down and do nasty things to you with a bit of filament  >:D

STL is in the zip file.

Slots are 7mm wide so it should take most cables. 203mm wide so it will fit on the smaller beds and more screw holes than needed.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 03, 2019, 10:55:18 am
Thanks beanflying I need a few more of those. Before my 3D printer I had to buy them.  |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 03, 2019, 11:52:52 pm
And off the printer overnight. Fingers are more than up to the job, could be made a lot lighter but it's only about 22m of filament so leaving it as is and stronger than needed.

Edit - First one installed. Sits over the PC so the leads need to be doubled but the slots work well for a straight drop and grabbing the connectors.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tautech on October 04, 2019, 12:17:26 am
And off the printer overnight. Fingers are more than up to the job, could be made a lot lighter but it's only about 22m of filament so leaving it as is and stronger than needed.
Good call, hang a few IEC leads on them and their strength will be appreciated.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 05, 2019, 02:21:32 am
Check multiple IEC's/slot and tested for deflection with additional loading - nil to very little, array of lead types and diameters and another couple of racks made. Small washer for the rear to allow clamping to the wire racks. No more untangling to get a particular colour test lead  ;D

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 09, 2019, 11:14:47 am
Well, the printer purchase seems to have been the inexpensive move - in itself.  I had expected to start outlaying for filament, but I haven't got there yet.

Before I get into printing, I wanted to establish a home for the machine.  Find space which is solid, stable, convenient and, hopefully, level.  Here is a "before" shot of the area. My desk and computer are about a metre off to the right.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=851154;image)

The item under the pink cloth is my AKAI GX-620 which, last time I checked, had one dead audio channel.  A cap and transistor replacement for these is so common, there are places that sell them as a kit.  This will get relocated.  The TDS220 just happened to be sitting there when I took the shot.  The crap to the left will get moved elsewhere.

Here's an intermediate view showing filing cabinet relocation and the general placement of the printers.  The board bridging the gap is temporary - I am in the process of preparing a single piece which spans the entire area, with a small cantilever to the left.  The gap was deliberately stretched a few millimetres so it would be 6RU wide, which allows my two 8656B's to be kept out of harms way until I get my equipment rack sorted.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=851158;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 09, 2019, 11:19:36 am
I wonder what else will crop up.

Actually ... no, I don't.  I don't want to know.   Not yet, anyway.   :scared:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 09, 2019, 11:36:07 am
Let me 'assist' you further just because I am that sort of guy :-DD Good value filament here @hobbyking  (https://hobbyking.com/en_us/2019-cyber-september/workbench/3d-printing.html?utm_campaign=62163_Standard%3A+3D+Printer+Highlight++8%2F10%2F2019&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Hextronik+Limited&dm_i=4SQP%2C1BYR%2C9SGQY%2C3TMM%2C1&___store=en_us)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 09, 2019, 12:11:13 pm
Prices look good.


 :palm: And here we go down the rabbit hole.....
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 09, 2019, 12:18:43 pm
Tempted to grab some ABS to play with for myself as some of it is very cheap.

Wouldn't maybe bother with the 250g spools but 500g ones would be a way to get a larger spread of colours initially. The eSun in particular seems to be well regarded but for PLA I wouldn't worry to much.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 09, 2019, 12:22:55 pm
Yes, I noticed the price on some of the ABS.

I've already started a cart ....  :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: NiHaoMike on October 09, 2019, 12:46:56 pm
I suspect ABS is going for cheap because of its disadvantages - needs heated chamber and unhealthy fumes being the main ones. PETG has largely replaced it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 09, 2019, 01:10:09 pm
ABS has been cheaper than PLA or PETG historically. I have chambers for my printers and I was planning to run ducts on them prior to playing with ABS and one of the Enders is setup to play with higher temp filaments too so PC, Nylon etc.

I very much doubt I would go to ABS from the other two for general use but I want to have a play and being able to add a more temperature tolerant result which hanging around coffee gear would be useful in some applications.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: janoc on October 09, 2019, 03:26:21 pm
I suspect ABS is going for cheap because of its disadvantages - needs heated chamber and unhealthy fumes being the main ones. PETG has largely replaced it.

ABS doesn't need heated chamber.

You need to protect the printer from drafts - i.e. don't operate it next to an open door or window if you want to print ABS - the temperature differentials will cause it to warp or crack.

Enclosing the machine helps, though - doesn't need to be heated (nor insulated or airtight!). A simple  box to keep the heat from the bed in and drafts out will help you a ton against warping and layer separation on larger parts*. This applies to any filament which has warping issues due to irregular/too rapid cooling (ABS, Nylon, even PETG to a degree).

I have built a simple 50x50x50cm cube from cheap acrylic to put over my Mendel90 and it easily keeps the inside at balmy 30-40 degrees while printing - completely sufficient to not have any warping issues anymore and still cool enough to not have to move the electronics outside (which would be a major issue - having the box insulated and airtight is actually counterproductive). Others have used various plastic boxes or even Ikea tables for this.

Having the machine covered up also helps with any objectionable fumes and protects the machine from collecting dust when not in use (bad for leadscrews, pullies, etc. which can get gunked up due to oil/grease picking up dust).

The unhealthy fumes are pretty much the same as with PETG - that it doesn't smell doesn't mean you aren't getting lungs full of nanoparticles (the main issue with ABS, even PLA emits those, just to a smaller degree) and some styrene (ABS) or caprolactam (PETG). Enclosing the printer helps with that. If you print a lot, you may want to add an exhaust fan and a HEPA filter.

However, if you aren't sitting for hours next to the printer (i.e. don't run it in your bedroom!) and ventilate the room well after you are done, you don't really need to worry much about this at the scales most people print at home. Of course, if you are running a production line or a hackerspace with multiple machines running non-stop, then that is a different matter.

*Even if that happens and you get cracking and layer separation on larger prints when ABS cools because you don't have the machine enclosed, it is often easy to fix - ABS is very easy to glue using acetone. Just brush on a bit of acetone and clamp the cracked bits together. After the acetone evaporates the part will be most likely fine.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 10, 2019, 06:28:09 am
I like the idea of dust protection - and the environmental temperature stability.  That gives me more confidence to try ABS and PETG.  I like more durable items.

One of the first I'm likely to try for is the screw block for the clip of the sun visor in my car.  That needs some tolerance to heat.


... but I'm getting ahead of myself.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: janoc on October 10, 2019, 09:26:46 am
I like the idea of dust protection - and the environmental temperature stability.  That gives me more confidence to try ABS and PETG.  I like more durable items.

One of the first I'm likely to try for is the screw block for the clip of the sun visor in my car.  That needs some tolerance to heat.


... but I'm getting ahead of myself.

Small parts (< ~5cm on the side) will likely print just fine even without any enclosure in ABS and almost certainly in PETG/GFil, as long as you have a heated bed, good first layer and use something to make the plastic stick to the bed (or have something like Buildtak bed). You will also want to turn off or slow down the extruder fan (if you have two, the one cooling the piece, not the hotend). Running the fan at full blast (which is default for PLA) is one of the most common reasons why people struggle with printing ABS - it will cause the plastic to cool down too rapidly, causing stresses and ultimately layer separation/warping.

I am printing ABS at around 90°C bed temperature, about 230°C hotend, on glass, using either a layer of UHU glue or, more recently, the Dimafix spray to make it stick. I have actually more reliable results printing ABS than I ever had with PLA, which is a lot more fussy when printed on glass.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 10, 2019, 12:12:57 pm
Let me 'assist' you further just because I am that sort of guy :-DD Good value filament here @hobbyking  (https://hobbyking.com/en_us/2019-cyber-september/workbench/3d-printing.html?utm_campaign=62163_Standard%3A+3D+Printer+Highlight++8%2F10%2F2019&utm_medium=email&utm_source=Hextronik+Limited&dm_i=4SQP%2C1BYR%2C9SGQY%2C3TMM%2C1&___store=en_us)

Well, there goes $120.  Some colours in PLA, a couple of ABS and a PETG.


7.5 kg should be enough to drive me around the bend.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 10, 2019, 12:21:42 pm
Speaking of which...

I was looking at getting a 0.4mm nozzle (only 0.2, 0.6, 0.8 supplied) but, as a newbie, I am yet to learn about the subtleties of various "standards" (if you can call them that).

The Micro Swiss stuff that came with my purchase makes reference to MK10.  To give me a head start on this topic - can anyone give me the executive summary on what nozzles I can use?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 12, 2019, 10:45:04 am
Scratch that.

It only took me a couple of videos to pick up on the context of the term "MK10".  Then a quick check on eBay confirmed my understanding.


The journey continues.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 12, 2019, 10:57:58 am
Buy a small pack of 0.4 nozzles as they do wear over time. 0.2 tried it once and put it away buy 0.6 and fatter layers for big prints I must give a go. 0.8 I doubt you could feed sufficient heat into the standard block heater to keep up.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 12, 2019, 11:54:47 am
The two nozzles I have that are off the machine have a shoulder between the hex sides and the thread - but some of the nozzles I've seen on eBay under the MK10 description don't.  This seems to be the case for the really cheap nozzles (like 5 for $2) - but I'm feeling wary.

If the heater block has provision for this shoulder and I get nozzles without it, then there's going to be an air gap - and that's not going to transfer heat nearly as well.  Am I right in thinking this could cause me problems - and that I should make sure I get nozzles with the shoulder?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 12, 2019, 12:02:03 pm
These guys are in Sydney and are Micro Swiss agents. Nozzle pricing looks ok https://www.bilby3d.com.au/DispCat.asp?CatID=11&SubCatID=129 (https://www.bilby3d.com.au/DispCat.asp?CatID=11&SubCatID=129) even against evilbay.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 12, 2019, 12:31:48 pm
A single 0.4mm brass MK10 nozzle from Bilby3D is $14.95 plus $12 delivery - but on eBay I can get 5 such nozzles and 2 cleaning tools from Hong Kong for $2.99 delivered.

There has to be a difference - but what is it?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 12, 2019, 12:50:10 pm
A single 0.4mm brass MK10 nozzle from Bilby3D is $14.95 plus $12 delivery - but on eBay I can get 5 such nozzles and 2 cleaning tools from Hong Kong for $2.99 delivered.

There has to be a difference - but what is it?

I bought a 10 pack of 0.4 mm nozzles from an Ebay seller a while back for around $5. I inspected them with a magnifier and saw no deficiencies. I'm printing with one now and no problems.  :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 12, 2019, 01:02:02 pm
A single 0.4mm brass MK10 nozzle from Bilby3D is $14.95 plus $12 delivery - but on eBay I can get 5 such nozzles and 2 cleaning tools from Hong Kong for $2.99 delivered.

There has to be a difference - but what is it?

Nothing generally wrong with the cloned Micro Swiss nozzles by all accounts. The local option was just to get up and going. You will want to get the clones not just a generic 0.4 nozzle as the back end spacing is likely different so the break won't mate properly.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 14, 2019, 09:03:59 am
Today's arrival.  I think I picked the right amount for the box.   ;D

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=854506;image)

There's a whole lot of potential there ...

Joy or heartache ...?    Time will tell.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 14, 2019, 09:07:33 am
I probably should have included a yellow.

Oh well, next time.



 :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 14, 2019, 12:10:50 pm
I probably should have included a yellow.

Great and you know you can switch colors in the middle of a print? It's a little unnerving the first time when you've invested an hour in a print but it really works.  :-*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 14, 2019, 12:12:15 pm
What no clear - that's another one you NEED  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 14, 2019, 12:51:50 pm
You two are a great help.


* Makes notes *
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on October 14, 2019, 02:21:33 pm
Switching colors mid print has worked for me sometimes.  But has as often failed, either obviously and immediately or by leaving a weak layer connection that separates in use. 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on October 14, 2019, 11:16:08 pm
I discovered a very slight problem with my Ender3. The bottom X-axis (left to right) guide roller of the head seems to have developed a flat spot. I suspect that occurs because it gets parked in the exact same spot after every print and stays there until I print again, so it must have taken a slight set or detent. Since there are two top rollers, they do not have the problem. The y-axis probably did not have this issue because I always move the table to some random spot when removing the print. The symptom is a slight artifact (or line) along the print's y-axis. I have only noticed it when motion runs quickly past that detent.

Make sure you park your head/table in random spots or move them periodically if not printing for a while.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tautech on October 14, 2019, 11:23:45 pm
Defpom had to do his Ender bearings:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyl-aa5dNFU&list=PL2z3V9RkHQE1CvQF2iDmPqMtYvrKE73v0&index=4&t=0s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zyl-aa5dNFU&list=PL2z3V9RkHQE1CvQF2iDmPqMtYvrKE73v0&index=4&t=0s)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 14, 2019, 11:28:04 pm
Make sure you park your head/table in random spots or move them periodically if not printing for a while.

Yes I noticed that, what I do is hold the assembly and grab a wheel with my fingers when the machine is off, and force it to rotate a little every so often, to keep them from getting the same spots parked on.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: MyHeadHz on October 15, 2019, 03:02:08 am
Is that esun filament PLA+ or just regular PLA?  You may want to pick up some PLA+ in the future to test with as well.

I got a spare set of those wheels/bearings when I set mine up because one of mine was defective.  My original plan was just to get a replacement and a spare or two, but that led me down a rabbit hole.  There are various standardized quality versions for each size, so I ended up refitting mine with higher quality bearings all around.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 15, 2019, 03:07:03 am
The Esun is ABS - in the "natural" colour.  Didn't go for PLA+ at this point - I thought the ABS and PETG in addition to all the PLA I got was enough to start out with.

I've started planning storage for filament and such... and I'm gonna need a bigger space.



Head long down the rabbit hole ... and I haven't even fired up the printer in anger yet.   :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 15, 2019, 03:14:19 am
The ABS is the one most affected by moisture. Generally I do try and minimise colours I have open but PLA bag in its bag just folded over with desiccant sachet seems to be fine even after a month or two. Sydney being more humid at times maybe grab some zip lock bags to keep the open rolls in with some additional desiccant sachets.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: MyHeadHz on October 15, 2019, 04:00:08 pm
Yeah, moisture is a pain, and another rabbit hole.  In short, you can't trust packaging, even when sealed.  They often have a lot of moisture before they are sealed, regardless of brand.  You can print with a roll to test before printing, but I finally gave up with that and the desiccant methods.  The issue with desiccants is that they are only good at stopping additional moisture.  That is important, but once the moisture is there it is just there.  The only way to get it out is sticking the roll in an oven or food dehydrator at ~50c for 8-12 hours or so.  This is a preparation step before I print anything now, even though I keep home-made desiccant packs in the rolls in storage containers.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 28, 2019, 01:40:11 am
I need to drill some fairly accurate (vertical) holes in some larger sheets so a pedestal drill won't get it done.

So I started looking at the bits to make a plunge base for my Makita cordless drill and decided this commercial base had all the basic bits I needed for less money. BUT it is not particularly stable and wobbles a bit and also the neck ring won't adapt to my Makita. So off to fusion to make a new neck ring and slides. Then decide the wobbly base needed to go so design a new base  :palm:

The new base is designed with just a 90 and 45 degree option which is likely all I need. The notch cut out in the base plate is designed to use with the 45 degree position and allow a 9mm offset to the notch for drilling and screwing in 17-19mm sheet goods on edge. The other option is using the 3mm lengthwise slot to make and insert jigs for similar offset drilling.

So it is 4 3D Prints and use the hardware from the commercial Drill stand. Cross the fingers and see how it goes :)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 29, 2019, 12:04:30 pm
Still soaking in all the info I can while I'm waiting for the paint on the bench top I've made to harden.  There will be 3 printers sitting on this bench - a colour laser MFC, an A3 inkjet and the Wanhao 3D printer.  (I don't want any instances of printer feet forming a bond with the paint that rips the paint off if the printer gets moved.)

What I did do was pick up some (cheap brass) MK10 nozzles that came with some cleaning tools.  They came today, but I'm not sure about the nozzles.  The I.D. looks too big when compared to the nozzles that came with the machine.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=863130;image)  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=863134;image)
Newly acquired nozzles are on the right.

Comments...?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 29, 2019, 12:30:37 pm
What I did do was pick up some (cheap brass) MK10 nozzles that came with some cleaning tools.  They came today, but I'm not sure about the nozzles.  The I.D. looks too big when compared to the nozzles that came with the machine.

Don't look right to me either, all my spares are like the left one in the pic.  :(
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on October 29, 2019, 02:17:40 pm
You appear to have picked up nozzles for 3mm filament.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 29, 2019, 02:40:59 pm
That seems like a reasonable observation.  The ID of my original nozzles is about 2.0mm and the new acquisitions are about 4.0mm.

Just checked the listing - and there is no mention of filament size at all.


Will message the Seller.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 29, 2019, 02:47:28 pm
.... I wonder if this statement in the listing covers my issue:

"The measurement allowed error is +/- 1-3cm."   ::)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 29, 2019, 02:59:30 pm
.... I wonder if this statement in the listing covers my issue:

"The measurement allowed error is +/- 1-3cm."   ::)

Good thing it wasn't +/- 1-3 m or you wouldn't have a claim LOL.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 29, 2019, 03:03:41 pm
Makes you wonder what you might get with a "nominal" 0.4mm orifice.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: janoc on October 29, 2019, 05:34:40 pm
That seems like a reasonable observation.  The ID of my original nozzles is about 2.0mm and the new acquisitions are about 4.0mm.

Just checked the listing - and there is no mention of filament size at all.


Will message the Seller.

Which is totally normal (assuming you meant 0.2mm and 0.4mm - 4mm nozzle would be insane). Filament diameter has nothing to do with nozzle diameter. You can use 1.75mm filament with 0.4mm nozzle the same as you can use 3mm filament. The same with 0.2mm or any other nozzle. Most printers actually come with 0.4mm nozzles, regardless of filament they use. It is a good all around size for most prints. Even 0.4mm nozzle can print 0.1mm layers, you don't need smaller nozzle for that.

Nozzle diameter affects the layer thickness you can achieve and how fast (or slow) you can print (bigger nozzle = can do faster print with thicker layers but worse details). It is up to the extruder and hotend to supply the nozzle with sufficient amount of molten plastic to keep it going. Whether that plastic was originally a 1.75mm or 3mm diameter string is totally irrelevant as long as your extruder is designed for it and your machine settings are correct (the machine has to extrude more of a 1.75mm filament than 3mm one for the same amount of plastic).

In fact, using too small nozzles (like 0.1-0.2mm) is counterproductive because you can't print thicker layers or print fast when needed (the extruder is unable to push enough plastic through the small hole in time). Not everything needs to be printed in 0.1mm layer height (and take ages). 0.2-0.3mm layers, using 0.4mm nozzle are totally common.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: janoc on October 29, 2019, 05:37:46 pm
You appear to have picked up nozzles for 3mm filament.

Nope, see above. There are no "3mm filament nozzles". Filament diameter has nothing to do with nozzle size.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 29, 2019, 05:45:03 pm
You appear to have picked up nozzles for 3mm filament.

Nope, see above. There are no "3mm filament nozzles". Filament diameter has nothing to do with nozzle size.


He's talking about the I.D. of the nozzle where the unmelted filament is feeding into - it's too big. Look at the diagram if you don't understand -

[attach=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on October 29, 2019, 05:49:45 pm
You appear to have picked up nozzles for 3mm filament.

Nope, see above. There are no "3mm filament nozzles". Filament diameter has nothing to do with nozzle size.

https://e3d-online.com/brass-nozzles-v6
https://store.micro-swiss.com/products/reprap-m6-thread-e3d-olsson-block-j-head
https://store.micro-swiss.com/products/reprap-m6-thread-e3d-olsson-block-j-head-3mm-filament
https://e3d-online.dozuki.com/Document/SMgf2USbusbvTpKT/V6-NOZZLE-ALL-%28Edition-8.1%29.pdf

Thank you, please come again.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on November 01, 2019, 08:28:39 am
It took a couple of rounds of communication, but they finally understood.  I think this diagram helped:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=864738;image)

I've been offered a partial refund, which is reasonably commensurate with the fact that there were some cleaning tools included - which are usable.



So, I've increased my knowledge of 3D printing just that little bit more.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on November 04, 2019, 09:21:09 am
Oops Converted some calculations and hand drawn sketches I did a while back into Fusion 360 today. It based on a Bill Pentz style Cyclone for my CNC router mainly but also general use.

Split as shown the top section is well over 1 roll of Filament and 3+Days to print and maxxed out fairly much on the CR-10S  :o Back to the drawing board for a manufacturing method. Laser cut bits with some pipe sections and 'some 3D printing maybe.  Sleeping on it :-//

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on November 05, 2019, 04:13:59 am
Some time later and after taking an electronic hacksaw to the model. The top section is back to just on two days to print and under a roll of filament. All the bits will also now fit on the bed of an Ender 3 (or Prusa without checking dimensions) so I can use a couple of my printers to make it.

A commercial option for a Cyclone of this size in Oz starts out at about $400 AUpesos (about $270USD) so plenty of $ for filament and some power.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on November 05, 2019, 01:07:23 pm
I'm pretty sure you are well aware of these, but in case someone finds it interesting, a lot of woodworkers have built various size cyclone-type separators (often with post-filtering), as table saws and sanders generate a lot of dust.

The one I found most interesting was a Thien baffle style with a good post-filter, out of a couple of buckets, and such stuff; plus a custom impeller, by Matthias Wandel,
here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtUVB9gAyfk)

You might wish to watch a video where he explains the reasons behind that design, based on experience with his previous dust collector:
here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgDJ_UUzMIo)

The build video of the two-bucket cyclone is here:
here (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z-xhYnWDCd0)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on November 05, 2019, 01:23:44 pm
For a shop vac mod the baffle is a good thing I am thinking of doing a mobile cart for my vac with something like it or a baby evilbay cyclone.

I really need something a bit more serious given the layout and size of the CNC. Ducting will be 100 or 125mm and 500+CFM of fan.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on November 05, 2019, 02:56:52 pm
Bigger?

1/3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1D958u-ZLNs)

2/3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcfHYYkxTh4)

3/3 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKDsWSGNCSQ)

with a description on how he did the cyclone itself (from 0.6mm Alu sheet) here (https://woodgears.ca/reader/marius/dust_collector.html).

That said, I'd prefer to use ABS or nylon for the impeller blades, maybe buy a dozen of suitable plastic cutting boards, then reform them on wooden forms with a heatgun.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on November 06, 2019, 06:06:38 am
Way to much time on their hands  ;) In oz the 'smaller' commercial fans are not to expensive so buying one works out a lot better than getting a motor and adding the bits on the front.

At least as far as I have found there is no cheaper larger cyclones out of China and the pricing of the western commercial offerings gives some room for DIY. Plenty of builds on youtube to pick from including all sorts of materials. The idea of kicking the 3D printer in the bum while I sleep eat and drink beer to get a result needing minimal extra work appeals  ;D

I got a deal on one of the baby ones today eBay auction: #223460931127 $29 AUD ($20 USD) for the shop vac. For this sort of money there is little to no point to DIY IMO.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on November 14, 2019, 12:43:34 am
Just a warning if anyone is looking at the Tronxy D01 in particular. The then tried to have the video taken down for someone having a near miss while reviewing it :palm: Check your printers regardless of brand.

Angus politely said F Off  :-+ https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxQbYGpbdrh-b2ND-AfIybg/community?lb=UgyN7CwpC4sEj_i6wzp4AaABCQ (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCxQbYGpbdrh-b2ND-AfIybg/community?lb=UgyN7CwpC4sEj_i6wzp4AaABCQ)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4-aKOlp-cA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4-aKOlp-cA)

And after being hauled over the coals in public.

Quote
Maker's Muse
28 minutes ago
Hey all, I have some GOOD news regarding my recent video on the Tronxy D01.

After hammering home just how serious the issue was, they have been very quick to roll out new firmware for the D01 and I am told other machines as well. They also informed me that machines still in the factory will be updated, I hope this is indeed the case.

While this does not excuse the shipping of machines without Thermal Runaway Protection to users, I am happy that they are now taking this seriously. The machine updates via micro SD and the whole process is completed without user intervention in under a minute. I will be putting a video together to discuss this further, show you how to update your machines and invite all owners of Tronxy 3D Printers to seek out updated firmware as I don't believe TRP was ever implemented.

It was a stressful process and I wish a video like that wasn't the only way to make this actually happen, but overall I'd call that a win.

Happy printing!

Angus
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on November 14, 2019, 02:09:28 am
It seems to me Tronxy have but one course of action to take - own up to the problem and deal with it.  Then they could approach Angus who I am sure would add a postscript.

Trying to hide an issue in this day and age, is just silly.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on November 16, 2019, 01:09:14 am
Early version but interesting to see a lowish cost multi CNC toy. Worth seeing how it iterates and fix the flex in the CNC Router shaft :palm:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s__H_bcFvds (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s__H_bcFvds)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on November 16, 2019, 04:56:30 am
Just adding this here as well as it getting lost in the TEA thread.

Lisence Agreement - Use it hack it is all good but sell it for $ and I will hunt you down and do nasty things to you with a bit of filament  >:D

STL is in the zip file.

Slots are 7mm wide so it should take most cables. 203mm wide so it will fit on the smaller beds and more screw holes than needed.

Thanks again for this.  Had some bed adhesion problems on first attempt with PETG and then various family matters got in the way but now have it resolved and printed and it looks and works wonderfully.  Had to place diagonal on bed of Ender3 to print comfortably, but other than that no issues.  Good design.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on November 16, 2019, 08:56:37 am
No worries  :)

PETG can be a bit special for the first few goes. Initially I had to do some playing with adhesives for the glass bed on my CR-10S. The Uhu Glue stick I had been using simply didn't work with PETG, several experiments later (including thinned PVA and hairspray) Bostik glue stick is about the pick of them.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on November 16, 2019, 04:41:06 pm
In the end I got good results with glass bed, no adhesive 80 deg bed temp.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: MyHeadHz on November 18, 2019, 04:56:05 am
I added a fan on mine a while back.  My only good fan is DC, but the printer only has a PWM output.  It works fine at 255 (max) all the time, but it is a bit too strong.  Would using a linear voltage regulator and a pot be ok, or would it be much better to get a 555 timer (and learn how to use it)?

Also, I can't seem to find the acceleration/jerk settings.  Are they not available in Linux (appimage)?  All the references show screens that I can't find.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on November 18, 2019, 06:54:40 am
Which fan? Which Printer and which control board?

The 0-255 is PWM to two wire fans on all of mine unlike the PC version if that is what you are trying to compare it to?

Depending of which slicer you are using maybe try and see if there is an Advanced TAB or way to select Advanced mode?

Screen shot of the current version of Prusa Slicer below for reference.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 26, 2019, 12:04:41 am
Got one of these coming for my Ender 3. Y-Axis linear rail made by 3D Fused replaces the original and does away with the plastic wheels. Will post more pics after installed.

https://3dfused.com/product/ender-3-ender-3-pro-y-axis-linear-rail-kit/

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on December 10, 2019, 02:00:32 pm
After some holiday shipping fiascos (I'll spare you at this time ...  :palm:) I finally got the 3D Fused linear Y axis. The installation went OK. There were some issues with the spacing of the stepper pulley as it was on the original Ender Y axis, but solved it by tapping the pulley down about 50 mm. Also had to re-adjust the length of the belt as it came from the factory by removing the part they designed that holds the belt under the bed mounting plate, and pulling some length back so the belt would tighten enough. I added washers in some places because I thought they were needed due to the fitment of the screws to the hole diameter. I also chose to re-print some of their parts in red, just for looks (which I did before I tore down my printer).

It does look like it improves the general finish of the printed parts a bit, but it's hard to take a good picture of the effect. I don't think the original Ender Y axis is bad at all, but if you want to add that little bit of extra precision it does work - not an order of magnitude better but a bit. I think after the holiday shipping craziness dies off I'll go ahead and get the 3D Fused X & Z axis retrofit.

Here's the company website -

https://3dfused.com/

[attach=1]

[attach=2]

[attach=3]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on December 20, 2019, 03:40:36 am
I think I will stick to my stock CR-10S and Ender 3's motion systems at this stage. Still and interesting mod for a 'cheap' printer.

To F'ing Hot in the shack (42C and still climbing) today so I am doing some CAD in the cooler house where it is a 'pleasant 31C  :phew:

Couple of spring loaded mods for my cheap Track Saw. It is the Ozito/Bunnings one and sold in the UK and likely elsewhere by Lidl. The blade cover could have been done with Tape but I did it for the exercise. The other holds the saw down to the track on the non blade side which becomes a factor on Mitre cuts where the saw centre of mass is beyond the track and the saw is free to fall off.  :--

The cut out for this one looks for all the world like this sort of insert or kickback protector was in mind but to save a $ not fitted. Two countersunk screwholes from under the bed will be needed and brass threaded inserts in the 3D part to hold it in place.

The dust cover is a maximum thickness of 4.5mm (spring diameter from a pen salvage) so it clears the blade and also still allows the saw to run on the blade cover if needed (door trimming among other uses). It runs a 10 degree dovetail to hold the latch section in place and will use a threaded insert to hold the blade into the joint with the spring for retention.

Also trying out the local render on Fusion 360 which is something you should not do unless you have a good PC it still takes around 2 minutes to more depending on the project. I need to learn how to play with the environmental settings to get some better results. The online render for Fusion works fairly well and generally takes 10-20 minutes to come back to you from the ether.

Two of my Printers are actually working in the heat without me  :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jan Audio on December 20, 2019, 05:09:44 pm
There is also creality CR-X 2 colors.
Dont forget 2 heads = double power usage.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on December 22, 2019, 03:20:23 pm
There is also creality CR-X 2 colors.
Dont forget 2 heads = double power usage.

Nonsense. Not only do you not run both hotends at full temperature for the entire print, the hotend is not the primary power consumer.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jan Audio on December 22, 2019, 05:46:48 pm
No, then what is ?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on December 22, 2019, 06:24:52 pm
No, then what is ?

The heated bed, usually..
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on December 22, 2019, 07:56:39 pm
Interesting idea if you need to bend up a small enclosure or panel  :-+

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crT1QBAfgNU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crT1QBAfgNU)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jan Audio on December 23, 2019, 02:34:35 pm
Then i go trying bed on 30 degrees, or totally off.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Alfons on December 23, 2019, 03:25:05 pm
No, then what is ?

The heated bed, usually..

That's right. On average, the hotend consumes about 30W, with the motors in operation, controller, LCD, Raspi, Led etc. I get 78 watts without a heated bed. Since my heating bed runs on 240Volt, a small 100W power supply is sufficient. The heating bed burns most of the power when starting up. When the temperature is reached, the PID controller adjusts and this then consumes significantly less power. Usually, the devices are equipped with 200-300 watt power supplies, so a second hot end would not really be a problem (especially since both are not always heated anyway). It damages the filement if it roasts too long without any support in the hot end.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on December 27, 2019, 10:49:41 pm
More Hardcore Press tooling and testing. Anyone calls 3DP weak or fragile point them here  ::)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsxFXTKaXdI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wsxFXTKaXdI)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on January 18, 2020, 12:21:13 am
Next up - X and Z axis linear rails -

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on January 19, 2020, 03:05:35 pm
Rails installed. Works great! Need to mod the camera bracket and the fan shroud I had before (or use a different model).


[attach=1]

[attach=2]

[attach=3]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on January 23, 2020, 11:39:45 pm
Interesting PCB workstation option Jonathans take on it adds to the files and is worth a watch as is the rest of his videos.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH2_WdWDtvQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qH2_WdWDtvQ)

Files here

Original https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3615910 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3615910)

Jonathans Mod https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3969675 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3969675)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on January 29, 2020, 09:54:29 pm
Decent start to the day 12 hours in and I didn't have a visit from the Spaghetti Monster overnight :phew: about another 10 hours to go is the guesstimate. 80m+ of Filament 6 layers all over and 30% infill.

This is the main part of a Hybrid Redesign for the Bosch PDP40 Pedestal Drill. The next bits are the 3D printed knobs and hub assembly to replace the dicky wheel.

You also need a Laser cutter to make the MDF Router Template because Lasers are cool too  8)

Why 3D print the flange? Because it is far more accurate than non CNC woodworking tools for circular holes/alignment and more than up to the strength requirements due to the Steel column and bolts through the part making up for any Layer strength concerns.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on January 30, 2020, 06:34:55 am
Not the longest print I have done on the Ender but it is up there. 20 Hours and 5 minutes. Now if only the shack temperature would drop below it's current 43C on the bench maybe the print would release from the bed  :palm: Fridge as a release method anyone or do I use the big close fitting base as a lever  :o

EDIT 15 minutes in the fridge and it popped off the bed as per 'normal'  :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on January 30, 2020, 12:31:32 pm
People might not know it if they aren't familiar with 3D prints but that piece is strong and hard and tough as nails.  :box:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on January 30, 2020, 02:08:52 pm
I would call it slightly over Engineered  ;) 4 layers and 25% would be 'OK' but based on other similar bushes I have made this is bomb proof.

For others considering doing something like this I recommend getting to know your printer and the tolerances you need or print short test segments. I actually did a quick 10mm high 2 wall 25% section of the main flange to test it on the drill shaft, I wasn't to worried about the outer as the wood could be tweaked if necessary. My guess on the slight oversize (0.3mm) felt snug so I went with it. The final bush needs just a slight push on the drill for it to slide down to depth and the alignment dowel it really tight in the slot (get your collective minds out of the gutter at this point  ;) )

For 4-8mm bolts I generally make holes 0.2mm oversize unless they really need to be tight and the centre smooth diameter of the knurl nuts is a good starting point. These where possible I position so the fastener is pulling them into a wall of plastic rather than trying to push them out. The Lateral hole in the pick for example is the locking pin for the drill and there is 5mm of plastic with the knurl nut getting inserted from the internal bore (see the pic in a previous post while printing), the verticals are 6mm from memory.

Likely commercial costs on getting this made $100 and more likely $150+ (plastic or aluminium) compared to under $7 total for plastic and it would still have needed an accurate sketch or a long talk and leave the drill to get it made elsewhere. My printers now help buy me Beer with the savings  :-+

Torx Security bits because the biggest hardware chain in the country only had 8mm available with those heads  :horse:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on January 30, 2020, 06:34:07 pm
Cost savings are just one of the advantages, maybe not the most important.  My printer has nearly paid for itself printing knobs and similar bits for test equipment.  But this weeks task was a case where the cost savings are minor.  Replacement tubing caps on a piece of lawn furniture I am refurbing.  Needed six caps of one size and four of another.  With enough time searching the internet I am sure I could have found something usable for under a dollar apiece.  Even if I had to re-order a couple of times because the fit wasn't perfect on the first try the cost would have been small enough to ignore, but the whole process could have taken weeks to complete.  Even including my baby CAD skills I was able to come up with a parameterized design and have the parts printed in a couple of days.  Perfect fit and style match.  Future repairs of similar gear will be faster because I now have a flexible design in hand.  The option to monogram the caps is their and much harder to obtain from the internet.  So many reasons to 3D print.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on January 31, 2020, 12:40:01 am
Time for a Coffee while Bertha warms up, it is a 110V 220W iron made by the American Electrical Heater Co from Detroit. Normally attaches to my variac but that is buried in my container in a safe place. When hot it can easily handle roofing iron  >:D Decided the 8mm ones are beyond the normal iron.

edit: Love it when a plan comes together  ;D Flush true and centered time to swap over to the old base so it can drill the replacement. Inserts fitted and snugged into place. Tomorrow maybe play with some Shellac and Wax for finish.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on January 31, 2020, 01:07:49 pm
When Nozzles Go Bad

Getting crappy prints, take out nozzle, inspect, see dirty caking, replace, work 100% better ...

Go figure  :-DD

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on February 02, 2020, 12:51:50 am
3D printed clamps anyone?

[attach=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on February 03, 2020, 04:17:17 am
To small for my woodworking needs  ;) I am going to make some clamps to go with a Dog bench along with 3D printed Dogs. I have tweaked the diameters for accuracy and they most certainly don't need the mallet ;D

Just for completeness and for those wondering why I would make a different base for a perfectly good brand new drill. It is so I can make vertical holes in panels without the pedestal getting in the way. Without making any mechanical changes to the drill I can now see easily and drill 40-50mm below the drill on any sized panel be it metal or wood. In stock this drill is limited to 120mm to the center and most are under 200mm.

Couple of coats of Water based Varnish over the ply for some protection. Single grubscrew at the rear to slacken off and put it back on the standard base.

EDIT: Test drive on the 16 middle holes. 20mmx40mm deep into MDF  :-+ Time to Shellac the Dog Hole bench for a little protection from oopsies.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on February 06, 2020, 08:20:59 am
 :o At least is comes with Linear Rails  :-DD Mains Bed with suspect wiring what could go wrong .....

Nice  :rant:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDxpVSXmKiE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDxpVSXmKiE)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on February 06, 2020, 10:58:09 am
Don't know if this is needed but I have decided to give it a go after the success with my internal TCT 20mm champher tool I came up with an idea of making an external tool for trimming the brim from 3D prints using the same cutter.

I have a swiveling deburring tool which works well on internal holes for cleanup or adding a bit to the champher and it also works fairly well on flat sided prints but it falls over for trimming discs and outside curves in particular for smaller radius ones. Using a knife doesn't work that well and sanded or filed PLA can get a bit melty.

So this concoction is try number 1. The blade is adjustable over a 5mm travel from -1 from the face to +4 inside the face which I think would cope with most prints and 'normal' fillets and champhers I use at least. Bottom of the cutter tip sits 1mm below the underside flat as it is only designed to cut a brim back.

Thoughts, ideas are welcome and I am going to sleep on the idea before printing it tomorrow.....

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: RoGeorge on February 06, 2020, 11:12:14 am
For me, each time a 3D printer seemed to be needed, I have improvised some workaround that doesn't need 3D printing.

Already have all the parts of a custom design 3D delta printer sitting in a box for a few years now (except the printbed and heatbed), but never took the time to assemble them all together.  Should I?

So far it looks like an unnecessary yet another tool to fiddle with (most probably at each print), and periodically clean the dust off of it.  Also fumes (used inside), and buzzing stepper noises for hours, not to say the risk of it catching fire when left to print unsupervised.

Does it all worth?  Does a filament 3D printer justify itself once you have it?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on February 06, 2020, 12:30:25 pm
Fumes with PLA are a non issue but for ABS you will really need a cover over it to raise the temperature for printing and then extracting the fumes is a really good idea. The cover fixes the dust issue too ;) My two Enders fit inside a converted glass fronted commercial fridge so the noise in minimal. I haven't run ABS but I have ducting and fans to add to the fridge in the next few months for extraction.

In the last few daysI have been doing a small run of custom Dogs for a woodworking bench and the champher cutter above. These bits in metal would have run well over $100 USD for me to buy instead I have a cost of sub $10 and a bit of power.

There were 15 prints in total all on one of my Ender 3's and apart from removing the prints from the cooled bed and starting the next one from the SD card and letting it do it's thing I haven't even cleaned the bed or had to adjust a thing. The printer has just chugged along while I do other things.

As to a DIY delta personally I wouldn't bother 'now' as the entry cost and likely perfomance of even an Ender as an example will be better for way less $.

As you have a chunk of the parts changes that a little if you proceed and most likely go through a bunch of teething problems I doubt I would want to spend the time and suffering but if you do let us know  :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on February 06, 2020, 01:13:31 pm
So far it looks like an unnecessary yet another tool to fiddle with (most probably at each print), and periodically clean the dust off of it.  Also fumes (used inside), and buzzing stepper noises for hours, not to say the risk of it catching fire when left to print unsupervised.

Does it all worth?  Does a filament 3D printer justify itself once you have it?

You're really the only one that can say, it's one of those "inner self" things - if you don't have the fire-in-the-belly to go after it, I wouldn't bother either because there will be frustrations. There is fiddling and time learning and failed prints and background noise - all that is true. But for the most part it does work.

Like all of us, If you want to justify not doing it, then you will find a way to do that. If you want to justify doing it, then same answer. Good luck on your decision.  :popcorn:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on February 06, 2020, 02:03:15 pm
So far it looks like an unnecessary yet another tool to fiddle with (most probably at each print), and periodically clean the dust off of it.  Also fumes (used inside), and buzzing stepper noises for hours, not to say the risk of it catching fire when left to print unsupervised.

Does it all worth?  Does a filament 3D printer justify itself once you have it?

You're really the only one that can say, it's one of those "inner self" things - if you don't have the fire-in-the-belly to go after it, I wouldn't bother either because there will be frustrations. There is fiddling and time learning and failed prints and background noise - all that is true. But for the most part it does work.

Like all of us, If you want to justify not doing it, then you will find a way to do that. If you want to justify doing it, then same answer. Good luck on your decision.  :popcorn:

A very good answer.

Many tools I have fall in that category.  A lathe.  eCAD software and many more.  There are work arounds for all of them.  Most of the world uses those work arounds, and just purchase a finished product or does without. 

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on February 07, 2020, 01:52:41 am
I reckon it is more fun to roll your own better quality workarounds ;)

As part of upping my woodworking tool collection I added a Bobbin sander to the toys, partly for finishing off Templates, Enclosures and Laser Cut edges as well as general use.

Triton thought of on board holders for ALMOST everything but forgot about the spindle tension washers which will almost certainly get lost over time  ::) There are six different dust plates and one will almost always be fitted in the sander so it leaves a slot free to make a 100mm diameter disc to hold the washers. So out with Fusion 360 and roll up a model to 3D print. This could have also been Laser Cut as shown in acrylic or 3mm Ply with the front face where the large washer sits would need a heavy engrave or sanding as it is a touch over 3mm thick.

With the model I made for 3D printing it took me under 10 minutes to create the Laser version using the same basic sketch as shown so 3D print or Laser use the process that suits best. Currently making the 3D printed one and I might make an Acrylic one next time I have some on the Laser.

Someone better find me some TEA worth buying woodworking gear is sending me broke  ;D

Edit Added a picture of the printed item.

Edit of the Edit Added a couple of pics of a Laser cut MDF one while I was cutting some other bits.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: RoGeorge on February 08, 2020, 07:19:52 pm
Does a filament 3D printer justify itself once you have it?

You're really the only one that can say

Noooo!  Not the answer I was looking for.  Was waiting for an enthusiastic  "Yes, absolutely!  Anybody should have at least one!".   ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on February 09, 2020, 01:06:02 pm
Noooo!  Not the answer I was looking for.  Was waiting for an enthusiastic  "Yes, absolutely!  Anybody should have at least one!".   ;D

Well why didn't you say so?

Yes, absolutely!  Anybody should have at least one!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: RoGeorge on February 09, 2020, 05:17:55 pm
Yes, absolutely!  Anybody should have at least one!

Thank you!   :D
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/building-a-3d-printer/new/#new (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/building-a-3d-printer/new/#new)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Canis Dirus Leidy on February 09, 2020, 07:21:50 pm
Does it all worth?  Does a filament 3D printer justify itself once you have it?
It depends. For example, this guy uses a printer to create shell moulds (https://3dtoday.ru/blogs/gammer/kak-kyrkovat-doma-i-pro-koshku-kotoruyu-ne-umeyut-gotovit). More convenient than messing with wax.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on February 12, 2020, 10:38:11 pm
Here's a comparison of cheap no-name Chinese filament to USA-made Atomic filament. As soon as I opened the plastic wrap the difference was apparent. Atomic filament looks like a glass rod and the no-name looks like a rough pipe. There is even a dirt speck in the cheap filament.

I'm printing a tool holder right now for comparison, but from what I see on the bed already, it will be a knockout winner over the cheap stuff.  :box:

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on February 14, 2020, 08:52:07 am
I have figured out what temperature my Creality Borosilicate surface releases at it releases at Aussie Summer -10C  :phew: Six small prints for the day and each one meant take the bed off each time and shove it in the fridge to release then take it out wipe dry and clean with IPA and do it all again |O

Not sure what others have found but it is somewhere in the high 20's C and no way above 30 to get it to release.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: aargee on February 14, 2020, 10:12:44 pm
Have you tried one of these? I find they work very well, prints just pop off with little force when they cool down. I haven't used my BS or glass mirror tiles since getting this.

https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/240-310mm-Anycubic-Ultrabase-Glass-Build-Platform-For-3D-Printer-MK2-MK3-Heatbed/292563200860?hash=item441e202b5c:m:mvpnMB6ewX1CIZ92knXainA:sc:AU_StandardDelivery!4305!AU!-1 (https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/240-310mm-Anycubic-Ultrabase-Glass-Build-Platform-For-3D-Printer-MK2-MK3-Heatbed/292563200860?hash=item441e202b5c:m:mvpnMB6ewX1CIZ92knXainA:sc:AU_StandardDelivery!4305!AU!-1)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on February 14, 2020, 10:14:45 pm
I have figured out what temperature my Creality Borosilicate surface releases at it releases at Aussie Summer -10C  :phew: Six small prints for the day and each one meant take the bed off each time and shove it in the fridge to release then take it out wipe dry and clean with IPA and do it all again |O

Not sure what others have found but it is somewhere in the high 20's C and no way above 30 to get it to release.

Printing on glass is a bit archaic..

Perhaps move on to a spring steel bed with a suitable surface.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on February 14, 2020, 10:23:03 pm
Have you tried one of these? I find they work very well, prints just pop off with little force when they cool down. I haven't used my BS or glass mirror tiles since getting this.


As per this post https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2894318/#msg2894318 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2894318/#msg2894318) The Creality is very similar to the Ultrabase it just won't release above 30C which is fine for most it is just a PITA in an Aussie Summer.

With Spring steel how do the magnets stand up long term if you want to run ABS bed temperatures?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on February 14, 2020, 10:25:58 pm
With Spring steel how do the magnets stand up long term if you want to run ABS bed temperatures?

Just fine if they're the proper type. My Prusa runs up to 120C happily.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: aargee on February 14, 2020, 11:36:52 pm
Well, I'm using mine in an un-air conditioned Queensland summer. I use the heated bed at 50 degrees, so I'm not sure if that makes it work with a temperature differential between printing and not.
I've just not had a bad experience with the Ultrabase. Prints stick really well too but YMMV.
Now when using glass... that's where the release problems were happening, the prints either stuck too well and not releasing or I was too slack with re-doing the hair spray coating, and weren't sticking well enough.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on February 15, 2020, 12:09:56 am
When the bed temp sensor is still sitting at 35C after 30 minutes and the print is stuck then the Creality Base is an issue. It is not a bad thing just a PITA thing. Yesterday the shack was toward the high 30's C for most of the day. In Victoria it is only a real issue I guess for 30 days a year and I tend not to do a lot of work when it gets toward 40C so generally not an issue.

I am still using plain Glass on the CR-10S but I have a brand new Ultrabase styled top for it too but I like the mirror finish I can get straight off Glass with no adhesive using PLA. Just keep it super clean and pre wipe with IPA and it still has a place for cosmetic reasons. The slight dimpling with the Ultrabase I don't mind either just I prefer the smooth finish. Where I see the Ultrabase top being a good thing is for PETG where I am hoping not to need another adhesive.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on February 15, 2020, 11:56:11 pm
Much cooler today so the bed released much quicker without the fridge. Two layers of 3mm Laser Cut Acrylic teamed with a small sliding 3D printed knob on top and steel threaded insert underneath. Still need to grind a point on the 2mm pin and glue the two bits of Acrylic together.

Custom Router/Trimmer Circle cutting Jig.

Bits in the background are a Router Table insert and 3D printed dust inserts.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on February 16, 2020, 12:45:25 am
I got a new glass bed today. I ordered it because I didn't like some things about the one I had which was Creality branded. I don't know who really makes this one - I don't think it's Creality - but I do know this - it made a very big change in my first layer adhesion and quality.

It's this one - eBay auction: #233438591228

That stars test pattern has never printed as well as it did on this bed.

The black pattern/material surface doesn't appear the same as the Creality bed under a magnifier. Also - and I never thought this was a good thing - the Creality bed has large white letters painted right over the adhesion surface smack dab in the center! This one is left completely blank - no paint decorations. And the prints are really sticking to this one. So it's pretty interesting what this bed is doing for me now.  :-+

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on February 25, 2020, 01:52:27 am
Random 3D printing video. Very good results given it is over 3 years old and a bit inspiring given the age of the designer not to mention some good ideas on practical printing. Woodworking sort of bias but some Jigs, guides and bits for us Electronic nuts too. Seems to be using a Prusa MK II.

Tie in a shop with rotating machines without a clip is a throwback but  :scared:

Proof you are never to old to learn a new skill  :-+

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIeFfB2iqH0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HIeFfB2iqH0)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: VK3DRB on February 25, 2020, 11:59:25 pm
The 3D filament brand eSun has their head office is in Wuhan. Their manufacturing plant is in another city in Hubei. A local supplier is concerned in a few weeks he won't be able to get product, due to COVID-19.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on February 26, 2020, 12:09:35 am
Given the sea freight lag we won't be seeing any effect for another few months with any of the cheaper Chinese Filaments in Oz.

There is at a pinch always locally made (more expensive) https://aurarum.com.au/ plus plenty of US or European for a bit more again. Unlike some of the Electronics industry there is alternates at least without going broke waiting.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jan Audio on February 28, 2020, 02:53:25 pm
I cant find any cheap filaments on aliexpress or ebay.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on February 28, 2020, 10:49:37 pm
I've been playing with the Linear Advance option in Marlin 1.1.9. It can be enabled in the Configuration_adv.h file by uncommenting this line

#define LIN_ADVANCE

in the Marlin source code. You can read about it here -

https://marlinfw.org/docs/features/lin_advance.html

It compensates with pressure changes in the nozzle as the movement changes while extruding material. It actually works, as you can see in the pics.

First pic is without the option compiled, using a test pattern you can get generated here -

https://marlinfw.org/tools/lin_advance/k-factor.html

You can see the changes in the extruded line width at different speed and accelerations (the control algorithm is not compiled here).

Second is with the option compiled and the test pattern running using different values of "K". It looks like I'll be using a K value of 1.0 for all my future prints, which is set by issuing an M900 command,

M900 K1.0

which can be included in the gcode at the beginning of your files.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 01, 2020, 04:46:14 am
I must do some more looking at Marlin in my 'spare' time'  :palm:

Finally got around to using a simple print I made last week. Teamed with a good chunk of Laser Cut Acrylic and a Steel Weld Nut for the pivot lock.

Sometimes 3D printing is the bit to make it all work and be bodge free rather than the entire project ;)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: chickadee on March 03, 2020, 07:05:43 pm
I got this prusa and upgraded it to the latest revision but these hobby level printers seem incredibly limited in real world usefulness.  Does anyone on here have a commercial machine like a stratasys?  Was it worth it?  It seems like there are some great deals from liquidators and all you need to do is handle the transportation (and have a 3 phase power outlet or 3 phase converter available).  Then you can print...  Anything?  3D printing projectile weapons is getting big in USA and it seems that a machine like this would put you head and shoulders above anyone doing it with a hobby machine.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 03, 2020, 08:11:46 pm
I got this prusa and upgraded it to the latest revision but these hobby level printers seem incredibly limited in real world usefulness. 

Not exactly sure how you are using the term "real world usefulness" here. I can say without a doubt I have made use of mine for "real world usefulness" tasks, and so has beanflying and others here.

Perhaps I don't understand what you mean by "real world usefulness"  :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: chickadee on March 03, 2020, 09:01:45 pm
I'm talking about using engineering grade materials to create engineering grade prototypes, or even production grade pieces with high dimensional accuracy and mechanical robustness.  The more I learn, the more it seems that heated chamber is obviously required, but choices are limited and the cost is much higher!  It appears that the older stratasys machines have been thoroughly hacked, and I'm curious if anyone on here has one?  If so, how are you powering it?  All of the specs I see indicate that they require 3-phase power and I'm curious what parts inside the printer are actually depending on the 3 phase input.  Most of the BLCD drivers I see will work with 3 phase, but can be configured for single phase as well... I wonder if the stratasys machines could be reconfigured in such a way?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on March 04, 2020, 08:46:41 am
... hobby level printers ...
... commercial machine ...
Do you notice the distance between these two options...?  It's like the difference between a hand operated pan brake and a 100 ton hydraulic press.

Don't grumble when you get a wheelbarrow and it doesn't perform like a dump truck.


Quote
3D printing projectile weapons is getting big in USA and it seems that a machine like this would put you head and shoulders above anyone doing it with a hobby machine.
Projectile weapons?  That's a worry (to me, at least) - but, yes, you should expect a commercial machine to be far more capable - even if more expensive to acquire, operate and maintain.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on March 04, 2020, 12:43:43 pm
What does "engineering grade" mean?  Engineering is the art of achieving goals with available materials and processes.  I make wrenches, structural joints and other parts using a hobby grade 3D printer.  You just have to be aware of material limitations.  And realize that one tool doesn't fit all applications and some applications are just out of reach for some tools.

There has been much hype about 3D printed projectile weapons, but the reality is not really more worrisome than the decades old zip gun made with pipes, piano wire and scrap. 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: chickadee on March 04, 2020, 01:49:25 pm
... hobby level printers ...
... commercial machine ...
Do you notice the distance between these two options...?  It's like the difference between a hand operated pan brake and a 100 ton hydraulic press.

Don't grumble when you get a wheelbarrow and it doesn't perform like a dump truck.

I really don't see that much of a difference if you consider what people are paying for higher end hobby printers vs. the used prices on the commercial machines - It looks to me like you can get a "commercial" grade machine that may need some repair for under $5,000 USD easily.

Quote
Projectile weapons?  That's a worry (to me, at least) - but, yes, you should expect a commercial machine to be far more capable - even if more expensive to acquire, operate and maintain.

It isn't a worry in the USA due to the number of weapons steadily climbing towards 1 billion already, as well as easy availability over the southern borders for stuff not normally sold in USA.  For other countries with more tyrannical rules on self defense and weapons, I can understand how it would be a worry for the bureaucrats but it's really only a good thing for the freedom minded.  Imagine this scenario:  Someone is breaking into my house!  Oh no! *prints weapon before murderer makes it through the door* (I know, this is a silly situation, but would make for a funny short film :D



What does "engineering grade" mean?  Engineering is the art of achieving goals with available materials and processes.  I make wrenches, structural joints and other parts using a hobby grade 3D printer.  You just have to be aware of material limitations.  And realize that one tool doesn't fit all applications and some applications are just out of reach for some tools.

There has been much hype about 3D printed projectile weapons, but the reality is not really more worrisome than the decades old zip gun made with pipes, piano wire and scrap.

To me it's material vs. dimensional stability and repeatability.  It really doesn't look like you can print a lot of the more exotic materials without a heated chamber, or rather, you can't print them w/o a heated chamber if you care about the dimensional stability/repeatability.  Also layer bonding for some of them.  I'm not an expert in any way, I am learning about this and deciding if I want to get a commercial grade machine.

The 3D printed weapons aren't hype, these new glass and carbon filled exotic materials are pretty amazing, people just aren't talking about these efforts online much since it tends to trigger(lol!!!) the bureaucrats.  I think we'll see some exciting developments in coming years, it may become very close to the new Lost In Space series (which I higly recommend watching!!!)

Danger, Will Robinson, danger!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on March 04, 2020, 02:34:28 pm
... hobby level printers ...
... commercial machine ...
Do you notice the distance between these two options...?  It's like the difference between a hand operated pan brake and a 100 ton hydraulic press.

Don't grumble when you get a wheelbarrow and it doesn't perform like a dump truck.

I really don't see that much of a difference if you consider what people are paying for higher end hobby printers vs. the used prices on the commercial machines - It looks to me like you can get a "commercial" grade machine that may need some repair for under $5,000 USD easily.
Really?  You get a Prusa and then start referring to machines in the $5000 range?  You really need to compare apples with apples.

Quote
Quote
Projectile weapons?  That's a worry (to me, at least) - but, yes, you should expect a commercial machine to be far more capable - even if more expensive to acquire, operate and maintain.

It isn't a worry in the USA due to the number of weapons steadily climbing towards 1 billion already, as well as easy availability over the southern borders for stuff not normally sold in USA.  For other countries with more tyrannical rules on self defense and weapons, I can understand how it would be a worry for the bureaucrats but it's really only a good thing for the freedom minded.  Imagine this scenario:  Someone is breaking into my house!  Oh no! *prints weapon before murderer makes it through the door* (I know, this is a silly situation, but would make for a funny short film :D
:palm:  Typical.

You pick up on the "guns" issue (mentioned in passing) and completely ignore my comment on the core subject matter of your posting.... the capabilities of 3D printers.


Quote
What does "engineering grade" mean?  Engineering is the art of achieving goals with available materials and processes.  I make wrenches, structural joints and other parts using a hobby grade 3D printer.  You just have to be aware of material limitations.  And realize that one tool doesn't fit all applications and some applications are just out of reach for some tools.

There has been much hype about 3D printed projectile weapons, but the reality is not really more worrisome than the decades old zip gun made with pipes, piano wire and scrap.

To me it's material vs. dimensional stability and repeatability.  It really doesn't look like you can print a lot of the more exotic materials without a heated chamber, or rather, you can't print them w/o a heated chamber if you care about the dimensional stability/repeatability.  Also layer bonding for some of them.
You need to understand the process - the considerations, limitations, environment, materials ... and a whole lot more before you start getting 'angry' that the technology doesn't do what you want.

Quote
I'm not an expert in any way,
That is clear.

Quote
I am learning about this
As am I.

Quote
and deciding if I want to get a commercial grade machine.
From what I have read so far, you have quite a way to go before you will be able to make an informed decision - but stick to it.  Get familiar with making your Prusa do what it is capable of and go from there.  Baby steps, or you might find yourself getting totally exasperated (rather than just annoyingly frustrated).

Quote
The 3D printed weapons aren't hype, these new glass and carbon filled exotic materials are pretty amazing, people just aren't talking about these efforts online much since it tends to trigger(lol!!!) the bureaucrats.  I think we'll see some exciting developments in coming years, it may become very close to the new Lost In Space series (which I higly recommend watching!!!)

Danger, Will Robinson, danger!
Yes, the materials science that is emerging around 3D printing is fascinating - but these exotic materials sometimes require special considerations, special processes or both to be used.

But - before you build your rocket ship, understand your ultralight and get it flying straight and true.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: sassywren on March 05, 2020, 04:10:44 am
............. completely ignore my comment on the core subject matter of your posting.... the capabilities of 3D printers.
Quote

I don't understand... You said it worried you and I said not to worry....  Sorry?

......................

Quote
I'm not an expert in any way,
That is clear.

Ok so now you're just being nasty and that isn't helpful at all......

Quote
I am learning about this
As am I.

Then why are you even attempting to offer advice?

Quote
and deciding if I want to get a commercial grade machine.
From what I have read so far, you have quite a way to go before you will be able to make an informed decision - but stick to it.  Get familiar with making your Prusa do what it is capable of and go from there.  Baby steps, or you might find yourself getting totally exasperated (rather than just annoyingly frustrated).

It just seems like you wanted to make a post and picked me as your innocent victim  :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 05, 2020, 04:25:18 am


It just seems like you wanted to make a post and picked me as your innocent victim  :-//

You are hardly an Innocent and stop being a dick with multiple accounts already  :palm: Your original account must be nearly unbanned by now.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: sassywren on March 05, 2020, 04:31:40 am


It just seems like you wanted to make a post and picked me as your innocent victim  :-//

You are hardly an Innocent and stop being a dick with multiple accounts already  :palm: Your original account must be nearly unbanned by now.

I wasn't trying to be mean!  I just read through his entire post looking for something.... And it was not...
And now your post.  Were you going to give feedback to my question?

I am just wondering if anyone on here has acquired a used/broken/etc commercial grade printer and what their experience has been, with powering it, with using it, with repairing it?   There seem to be a lot of them out there, and if there is anyone on here doing engineering grade work then there must be someone who has something like this?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on March 05, 2020, 04:42:43 am
I am just wondering if anyone on here has acquired a used/broken/etc commercial grade printer and what their experience has been, with powering it, with using it, with repairing it?   There seem to be a lot of them out there, and if there is anyone on here doing engineering grade work then there must be someone who has something like this?

This is the first time you've expressed yourself with clarity.

Your previous efforts indicated a severe lack of understanding and were becoming indistinguishable from trolling.

As for this:
Quote
I am learning about this
As am I.

Then why are you even attempting to offer advice?

 1. It seemed I knew a little more than you.
 2. Only seeking advice from people who know it all will end in silence.


Anyway - since you've now expressed a clear question, I will stand aside, as I do not have any experience to contribute to that area.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: sassywren on March 05, 2020, 04:44:38 am
I'm sorry I asked the question originally and then responded like 3 times and the question was basically lost so it's really my fault  :-\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 05, 2020, 10:39:51 pm
More toys to play with for the Ender - a Bigtreetech TFT35-E3 touch screen display ($35) and a new control board Bigtreetech SKR Mini E3 v1.2 32 bit with TMC 2209 silent stepper drivers ($37). Will be installing in the next few days.

Trinamic silent stepper technology -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0sJlGh9WNY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0sJlGh9WNY)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 06, 2020, 12:01:20 am
More toys to play with for the Ender - a Bigtreetech TFT35-E3 touch screen display ($35) and a new control board Bigtreetech SKR Mini E3 v1.2 32 bit with TMC 2209 silent stepper drivers ($37). Will be installing in the next few days.

Trinamic silent stepper technology -



So hows you 'budget' $1k Ender 3 actually doing  :-DD

This ran across my youtube feed this morning over coffee the STL files for the buckets are in the video discription and for those without woodworking skills or interests then find some shallow square edged plastic tubs (food industry has heaps of options) Wonder how many days of printing and how many kg of filament  :o

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHFK5sY8ToE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHFK5sY8ToE)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 06, 2020, 12:08:28 am
So hows you 'budget' $1k Ender 3 actually doing  :-DD

It's a little over-budget at this time.  :-DD

Hey it turned into a hobby in and of itself - it keeps me off the streets at night.  :clap:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 06, 2020, 02:20:28 pm
Wonder how many days of printing and how many kg of filament  :o

*** Rough Estimate ***

I made a box with cut outs for an El Cheepo frequency counter. I used this for a basis for an estimate (see pic). The box has 2mm walls - his wall might be bigger. I estimated how much more plastic it would take to fill the holes in the box by adding some scrap, then weighed it. It was 23.6 g. I'm going to just use 25 g for my starting point. Then, how much bigger are his smallest boxes (the red ones). Twice as big? So that's 50 g/box. Let's just use that for now. So we have this from observation in the video:

Using the smallest boxes he got a 6 x 6 grid in a drawer. He has 18 drawers in the cart. So just using the small boxes we have 6 * 6 * 18 = 648 boxes.

We have 50 g/box * 648 boxes = 32.4 kg, which is 32.4 rolls of filament.  :phew:

How much time? You estimate that part.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 07, 2020, 12:45:49 am
12m of Filament allowing for a little waste and 3.5 hours each based on my stock Ender settings.

So for 648 of the wee beasties 26kg of Filament and 2268 Hours of Print only time = one really bored human  :-DD

In straight material costs in it makes each bucket about $0.8 ($0.56 USD) plus a bit of power so are they worth making is a bit of a toss up  :-// . I know he runs more than one printer and you could certainly load up the bed with multiples to stay sane. Four per bed changed every 12 hours or so.

I made a couple of smaller trays with lids for my 3 and 4mm hardware per below. CR-10 sized design 240x160. 65m of filament and a touch over 24 hours print time. Similarly not really worth it but I got exactly what I wanted and a lid that keeps washers and everything else in their allotted hole. It was more for the Fusion learning than anything else at the time. Was it worth it - maybe  :-// but I enjoy using them both almost everyday  ;D .

edit found a photo of some of the detail finished item.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: sleemanj on March 07, 2020, 01:18:26 am
Print with a single wall, 1mm nozzle, 0.75mm layer height and you'll churn them out pretty quick.

But I would certainly look for ready-made ones before going to the trouble of printing them all.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 09, 2020, 05:06:31 am
More woodworking 'crap'  ;D Not entirely true as these same Tracksaw dogs and Track mounts will now get used for breaking up Acrylic sheets for my Laser Cutter in particular and also I have a job coming up where I need to cut a fair amount of T-Track for making a larger format Laser.

The different height tops are held on with a philipshead screw into the base dog which contains an M3 knurl nut.

Gratuitous shot of my currently virginal Shellac and Waxed polished bench from a page or so back to use with them.  ;) Dead easy method now for 90 or 45 degree cuts with just a single measurement.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on March 09, 2020, 06:00:42 am
Gratuitous shot of my currently virginal Shellac and Waxed polished bench from a page or so back to use with [the bench dogs].
Looks nice!  But, did you apply shellac to the dog holes?  I would, if I were you.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 09, 2020, 06:16:10 am
I haven't as they are a very neat 20mm and I have tuned the dogs to come off the printer at 19.9mm. The Fusion design measurement was 19.7 so I am blaming the triangular type motion conversion for some of it plus I do run a slight over extraction on the extruder.

I am going to make a pull through gun style for the bores and Beeswax/Oil them for some glue/moisture proofing and it will lubricate the dogs for no real final reduction in bore with a final dry pull.

But maybe a test one on some MDF with a single pull through of Shellac but I think the bore would then need to be denibbed as the Shellac will tend to make the fuzzy bits hard requiring the bore to be sanded I suspect  :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on March 09, 2020, 06:34:47 am
But maybe a test one on some MDF with a single pull through of Shellac but I think the bore would then need to be denibbed as the Shellac will tend to make the fuzzy bits hard requiring the bore to be sanded I suspect  :-//
Whatever you end up doing, please do keep us informed.  I personally avoid MDF because of its tendency to bulge when any moisture gets inside, and the possible glue fumes that may slowly release creeps me out.  (Already had formaldehyde poisoning as a kid due to that from particle board.)

I like shellac (crushed female lac bugs, yummy!), and if it or oil/beeswax (which I like even more) works to protect the MDF from occasional moisture, that would be very useful to know.  Also, if you do try shellacing the dog holes, do tell us how much the hole diameter changes, as then one could compensate for that, approximately, in the future.

I wonder if the dogs could have had some compliant structures to increase the friction?  Say, three bridge-like friction arc elements or something.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 09, 2020, 06:55:50 am
The formaldehyde is an issue in particular for older manufactured boards and plys. Modern MDF has improved that a lot including MRMDF (Moisture Resistant MDF) We are only starting to se that one out in Country Oz but it should be widely available in the EU as should be the low formaldehyde ones.

Shellac is a bit of a lost thing (including in electronics/electrical use) but it has a lot going for it. As a finish I have used it for a tone change to wood then put a clear coat over the Shellac which works well for a general purpose job. In this case the Wax and Oil is more for a slick surface and easy touchup if needed later.

Changing out the dog diameter to suit the holes is the sensible thing if it gets a change as the holes were done with a 20mm Forstner bit until I get my larger CNC router going. With the current tolerances there is no need for friction aids on the bore fit and if you undersize to much and use clips you will lose some of the angular accuracy in the working parts.

I will get back here when I have had a bit more of a play much as it is OT  ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on March 09, 2020, 07:33:56 am
... for making a larger format Laser.

Interesting ..... What cutting area are you aiming for?

I'm contemplating something along those lines, targeting something like 1250mm x 950mm, but that's still in the 'musing' stage.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on March 09, 2020, 07:43:41 am
To be honest, I'm looking at this as a motion system - with the possibility of being able to run a 3D printing extruder on it.

Maybe a tool-changing arrangement..... ?


Big ideas ..... small budget.   ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 09, 2020, 07:45:53 am
Just over a 1/4 sheet so clearance on 1200x600. 80-100W is the current plan. Based on this Kiwi design with some tweaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ72zDm2feverqV7qAbNH7Q/videos (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ72zDm2feverqV7qAbNH7Q/videos) The Fusion 360 Plans and materials lists are well worth the few $
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 09, 2020, 07:48:43 am
To be honest, I'm looking at this as a motion system - with the possibility of being able to run a 3D printing extruder on it.

Maybe a tool-changing arrangement..... ?

Big ideas ..... small budget.   ;D

It has been tried commercially in one form or another. Unless you want prints running for a week then nozzles in the multiple mm diameter with fat layer lines to match  :-// I think going back to other options first would make more sense unless you like the layered thing.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on March 09, 2020, 07:57:48 am
Just over a 1/4 sheet so clearance on 1200x600. 80-100W is the current plan. Based on this Kiwi design with some tweaks https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ72zDm2feverqV7qAbNH7Q/videos (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCZ72zDm2feverqV7qAbNH7Q/videos) The Fusion 360 Plans and materials lists are well worth the few $
Yes, I've followed this build and when I start to gain traction, I will most likely pull his files as a starting point.


It has been tried commercially in one form or another. Unless you want prints running for a week then nozzles in the multiple mm diameter with fat layer lines to match  :-// I think going back to other options first would make more sense unless you like the layered thing.
The time element is not lost on me, but sometimes big and chunky layers aren't necessarily an evil.  I had considered doing large, low profile prints ... nothing specific mind you.  I just like the ability to maximise utility of such a motion system.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 09, 2020, 08:10:11 am
It is really where I see hybrid design being more appropriate. Large flat slabs are not the friend of 3D printing so use the Laser for what it is good at and 3DP where appropriate or you need detail bits that don't take days.

Couple of my recent hybrids. Woodworking ones but a Push Block for the router table to save the pinkies and the Router Circle cutter. Both could be made with just 3DP but using the Laser cut slabs would have saved 18-24 hours of print time and results in a stronger stiffer job.

The circle jig only uses 3DP for the locking mech and is a better option than Laser although it could have been cut and glued from multiple parts. But for the sake of a 30 minute print 3D printing is the clear choice.

Still need to print the handle for the push block and glue up the base sections.



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 10, 2020, 10:01:11 pm
BREAKING NEWS  8)


So the Fusion 360 crew haven't been just working on Eagle 'Beta' inclusion there is now a Slicer built into the manufacturing section  :-+

I haven't had a go of it yet but it look promising for a first up release even if the video style below is a but clunky in the way it explains some things.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd0l2ZOQQek (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yd0l2ZOQQek)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 11, 2020, 01:51:02 am
So my Fusion 360 did the update thing and there is another big load of upgrades other than just the Slicer one https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/blog/march-2020-product-update-whats-new/ (https://www.autodesk.com/products/fusion-360/blog/march-2020-product-update-whats-new/)

Quick look and loaded up the presets for an Ender 3 for a look. Selected PLA and tweaked a few settings. The GUI isn't as intuitive as Prusa Slicer that I have been using but for a day 1 release it is better than a lot of software I have seen.

I will figure out something a bit complex that needs supports and is a decent slicer test and run it against PrusaSli3er for a comparison in the next few days.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 16, 2020, 04:58:11 am
Revisited a fairly early PLA structural print I did just over two years ago in the last day or so. The Shack doggy door was a tip salvage with a few rubbish bits of wood screwed on the side to make it work. The intrepid yappy muttley has over time pushed most of the old flyscreen out of it so time for a new one that looked a bit nicer.

Not that important but 3 laminates of 1/4" Marine ply to create a Double Lap joint on the corners, small routed rebate to sandwich the flyscreen between two layers. Gratuitous shiny shot courtesy of Shellac and Wax again  8)

The L shaped truss takes most of the load as it also keeps the door open against the prevailing wind/coastal gales. Printed vertically as pictured across the truss fairly heavy at 6 layers (from memory) no cracking or signs of failure and ready to do it again for some more years. The little latch gets used at least once a day if not several times a day and shows no signs of wear and tear along the sliding section.

It doesn't get any real direct UV exposure but under load it is subject to Ambient temps regularly 30-40+C.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 16, 2020, 11:58:14 am
The new Bigtreetech SKR Mini 32 bit board is working great! It's really amazing what it did for the stepper noise. I can put my ear right next to the motor and hear nothing while it's operating. MUCH nicer to be in the same room with now. Also got the touch screen working and it looks cool as well.

It doesn't get any real direct UV exposure but under load it is subject to Ambient temps regularly 30-40+C.

Speaking of direct UV exposure, soon I'll be taking down the four antenna insulators I designed last year as an experiment to test PLA in all-weather conditions under pulling stress. They have been in use outside on two dipole antennas in all weather situations (of course). Especially the hot Texas summer with full UV exposure. As far as I can tell from the ground they look to be in good condition. I will be taking them inside and taking close-up pictures, maybe cutting into one as well. I'm also making new replacements using a stronger internal fill pattern and a better quality PLA. I'll replace the used ones with these and run the test for more years. Well, I guess it's not a test anymore since they worked so well these will be nearly permanent.  8)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 16, 2020, 07:38:17 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=950538;image)

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07X5TZ7J8/

This should keep me off the streets & out of trouble for a day or three. With the authorities closing events and shops left & right due to the global COVID charlie-foxtrot, the wife is ALREADY ready to break my foot off in my own ass... All 3 of her children have been driving her batty for a week now.  :palm:

Selling points:

Cheap as chips, PLUS $40 off; PRIME delivery

32-bit Board, Trinamic 2208s, 4.3" Touchscreen

Glass upgraded, heated bed w/oversized knibberty-knobs

Proper IEC Power

EOF Sensor, Print Resume Marlin FW

Well-rated on Amazon; EVERYBODY seems to hate EVERYTHING not ENDER on Amazon  :-//

Kit form, and probably a POS... so should keep me busy for a while fixing all the little "stoopit shit" things. :palm:

I toyed with getting this franchise-builder Ender 3: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07P68LDLG/ (https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07P68LDLG/)  but wasn't convinced it was all CREALITY quality. I'll probably regret it...

mnem
Good thing I have a Dremel...   :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 16, 2020, 07:43:36 pm
Well-rated on Amazon; EVERYBODY seems to hate EVERYTHING not ENDER on Amazon  :-//

Yea, but that thing isn't an Ender ...  :-DD

It'll probably be OK if the aluminum was cut accurately. Keep a fire extinguisher handy and keep us informed.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on March 16, 2020, 08:58:57 pm
My Ender required a bit of tweaking to make it right.  I would expect that of anything at the low price point.  As long as you are willing to figure out what might be wrong the corrective actions are usually not too difficult.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 17, 2020, 01:09:43 am

https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07X5TZ7J8/

This should keep me off the streets & out of trouble for a day or three. With the authorities closing events and shops left & right due to the global COVID charlie-foxtrot, the wife is ALREADY ready to break my foot off in my own ass... All 3 of her children have been driving her batty for a week now.  :palm:

Selling points:

Cheap as chips, PLUS $40 off; PRIME delivery

32-bit Board, Trinamic 2208s, 4.3" Touchscreen

Glass upgraded, heated bed w/oversized knibberty-knobs

Proper IEC Power

EOF Sensor, Print Resume Marlin FW

Well-rated on Amazon; EVERYBODY seems to hate EVERYTHING not ENDER on Amazon  :-//

Kit form, and probably a POS... so should keep me busy for a while fixing all the little "stoopit shit" things. :palm:

I toyed with getting this franchise-builder Ender 3: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07P68LDLG/ (https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B07P68LDLG/)  but wasn't convinced it was all CREALITY quality. I'll probably regret it...

mnem
Good thing I have a Dremel...   :-/O

Got some nice features for the price.  :-+ With the two fairly independent side beams I would double check and shim if needed whatever desk or bench you finish up using it on to make sure all four feet are co-planer otherwise we await the results. Welcome back to the world of 3DP  ;)


Another random sort of structural print now a bit over 18 months old. I made a pair of them from PETG each one was about $20 AUD in filament so not financially worth it but unlike the garbage commercial options this one won't rust or crack if you look at it wrong. It also taught me a heap about using Fusion 360. No sag issues or problems with the locking mechanism. The shelves retain the rail and lock it all together.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 17, 2020, 05:46:45 am
Well-rated on Amazon; EVERYBODY seems to hate EVERYTHING not ENDER on Amazon  :-//

Yea, but that thing isn't an Ender ...  :-DD

It'll probably be OK if the aluminum was cut accurately. Keep a fire extinguisher handy and keep us informed.  :popcorn:

Yeah, my point was it seemed to be an oddity; a well-rated 3DP that was NOT a Ender3.

I do intend to make double-damned sure Thermal Runaway protection is fully enabled, fo sho.

Got some nice features for the price.  :-+ With the two fairly independent side beams I would double check and shim if needed whatever desk or bench you finish up using it on to make sure all four feet are co-planer otherwise we await the results. Welcome back to the world of 3DP. ;)

Thanks. I know; the fully boxed lower frame was one thing I really love about the CR10 & my Tevo Tornado. I know the Ender 3 has a similar lower frame geometry, but I think the extrusion is larger. Plus, it doesn’t stand on stilts. I think worst case, I can add a bit of 8020 across the front, or even replace the front stilts with it to stiffen everything up if need be.

I know I’m just begging it to bludgeon me with this build; there’s a world of potential misery here. But it SHOULD keep me busy and not driving the wife nuts for a few days.  :-+

mnem
*toddling off to ded* :=\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 18, 2020, 04:20:34 pm
^~DING-DONG!!!~* At The Door...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=951504;image)

...and the Amazon truck is already pulling away after dropping off a enigmatic brown box and baggie with pictures of Bezos' dong all over them. I see he's dropped the Amazon text from the logo now; just letting his dick do the talking... and he evidently feels this one is meatier than most.   :-DD

Guess I should be glad I got my order in when I did, with the freeze on "non-essential" goods just announced. Maybe I should order another couple spools of filament before they sell out...  :o  And a scraper... and some aluminum angle... and some... (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=693504;image)

mnem
If y'all don't hear from me for a few days... just assume I fell down the 3DP rabbit-hole. >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 19, 2020, 06:10:20 am
Tinkering a little... overall, really impressed at what I got for ~US$205. Base came fully assembled; all I have to build is the horseshoe and the X-axis, and install the bed. Decent quality PSU, decent board, Trinamic drivers as promised, decent quality proper OpenBuilds-type V-slot extrusion, nice quality polyurethane rollers. The core components are all excellent quality, I'm impressed; most of the stamped parts are aluminum too, very little cheap steel. Where they cheaped out mostly is the hotend and extruder; parts people upgrade quickly anyways.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=951850;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=951830;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=951834;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=951838;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=951842;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=951846;image)

Cheapest Tronxy-quality Mk8 hotend, cheapest Ender3 clone plastic extruder that really isn't properly usable as-is. It uses a long M3 screw threaded loosely into the stepper motor as a pivot; no bushing, right on the threads. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=951816;image)  SO wobble... much flop.  :palm:

I modded the thing with an extra-long M3 bolt with shoulder and clearance for a nut to give it something to tighten up against the base; it's much better now and I will try it to see if it works.

I've got a CNC dual-gear-drive extruder (supposedly the schizz for NinjaFlex, etc) on the way, along with a V6 hotend/SS tube and some silicone hotend socks. When I get a little further on the project, I'll post some more pics.  :-+

mnem
*toddling off to ded*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 19, 2020, 11:37:21 am
I've got a CNC dual-gear-drive extruder (supposedly the schizz for NinjaFlex, etc) on the way, along with a V6 hotend/SS tube and some silicone hotend socks. When I get a little further on the project, I'll post some more pics.  :-+

There's some mixed reviews on that dual-drive extruder you have coming. It might work for you but I didn't buy one based on some of the reviews and problems. You may be able to make it work though.

Here's something good. I designed and printed my own style of dipole antenna end insulator last year. I made it out of white PLA specifically to see what would happen to it in a year long test. I took them down yesterday and replaced them with two newly printed ones.

But, I'm very impressed with how they stood up. They were out in full sun for a year and all summer in the 90 - 100 (F) temps and of course all weather that came. Under pulling stress, except for some dirt and rust from the wire clamps, there isn't any sign of stretching or cracking. I remember a guy telling me they wouldn't last because they would get hot and stretch in the sun, or be ruined by UV. Really impressive result.

The two I just replaced them with are going to stay up there for a long time.  :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 20, 2020, 12:11:43 am
So I debated weather to put this up or not as it may provide the wrong idea using it as 'the' protective device against CoV it is not! Take it for what it is a wearable faceshield that will assist in keeping airborne/aerosoled droplets away from your breathing and skin.

What I might build one for is workshop safety but using thin polycarbonate sheet for the shield as my old one is getting hard to see through and hot metal grindings in the Beard smell  ;)

More than that if you have a need and can't get one due to a shortage roll your own. 2-3L Coke Bottle for the shield will work too as it is PETG.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP7z3iw76GA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pP7z3iw76GA)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 20, 2020, 04:34:02 am
That's great... how the fuck do I get everybody out there to wear one so they can't sneeze their contagion ichor all up on me...? :-DD

mnem
*crawls off to ded*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on March 20, 2020, 04:34:52 am
Well, if they're sneezing at least it's not covid..
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 21, 2020, 01:06:06 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=953118;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=953098;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=953102;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=953106;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=953110;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=953114;image)

Done with assembly and squaring things up; I can pull the Z-Axis up & down by hand smoothly, X-Axis runout from side-side against frame is ~0.10mm.  :-+

Currently reviewing setup video to look for any gotchas; wanted to get this up real quick so I can do Father/Son time. ;)

First Impressions: Really nice 4.3" color touchscreen; bright & fingerprint-resistant. Frame fab top-notch; clean cuts, clean drilling & countersinks, edges of holes chamfered and all flash/chips cleaned up before packing.  :-+ :-+ :-+  Teeny tiny 24V fans are EFFING LOUD.  :o  Hopefully there's something I can configure so they don't run all-out with the thing just sitting there. :palm:

Mods done at time of assembly:

Mod extruder so clamp lever has a proper pivot instead of pivoting on threads of loose M3 screw

Zero-lash leadscrew nut & longer screws with nyloc nuts

5/16" SS ball bearing inside Z-axis coupler as thrust bearing

Robust strain reliefs at hotend, back of heated bed, back of X-Axis/Extruder

Cost so far:

US$205 Printer Kit

US$10  Zero-Lash Leadscrew Nut x 3

US$4   5/16 in SS Ball Bearing x 25 (Amazon add-on product)

US$7   Various nuts, screws, washers from local hardware

US$226 TOTAL

Upgrades not yet installed:

US$18   Dual-gear Extruder
US$11   V6 Heatblock, SS Tube & Silicone Heat Sock
US$11   24V/40W Ceramic Heater & 100K Thermistor x 5

US$40   Future Upgrades

Cheers,

mnem
*3DP-ily*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 21, 2020, 01:51:33 am
Thanks for the pics. Did it come with the flexible coupler on the Z axis stepper? Nice touch if it did. I'm sure it'll work fine. Look forward to the 1st print ...  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 21, 2020, 03:01:22 am
Yeah; it's the cheapest possible helical-cut version with set screws. Ender uses one with a single perpendicular cut; not a lot of flex there but obviously enough, just look at the results.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=953132;image)

https://www.amazon.ca/BQLZR-Stepper-Flexible-Coupling-Connector/dp/B00EQ1Y1NG/ (https://www.amazon.ca/BQLZR-Stepper-Flexible-Coupling-Connector/dp/B00EQ1Y1NG/)

One of my usual first mods is to replace these cheapies with better slotted/self-centering clamp-type flex couplers, but I tried this one on the leadscrew and it appeared to center halfway decently, so I decided to at least give it a chance. I still put the 5/16 in ball inside as a thrust bearing; makes all the difference in the world for z-axis accuracy & consistency. :-+

We'll see how she prints; I may still replace it, as it is a "not the best part" kindof thing that niggles at me. :-//

mnem
*currently reviewing the setup video some more*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on March 21, 2020, 03:27:40 am
To be fair, it's probably not the best printer either. ;D I'm curious how that pans out though!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 21, 2020, 06:08:45 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=953188;image)                      (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=953184;image)
   
1st off the plate (Isn't it just adorbs?) ;)          2nd Off the plate; ran just long enough to see that it prints.


The file on the card only tells you it's a square; no dimensions or descriptive title. The square measures 40.7 x 40.8; so linearity is not too bad. Gonna guess it's a 40x40 stepped square, based on how it started. Most reviewers state that the files on the card "print okaaaay..." but that when they used a Ender 3 profile in their favorite slicer results were pretty excellent. Makes sense; it's a Ender 3 clone with a nice touchscreen.  :-+

Q&A on Amazon reveals the following:

Quote from: Amazon Q&A for this 3DP
When new firmware is released where can we find them? I haven't been able to find a website for this printer
Answer:
This printer is a rebadged Alfawise U30 Pro/Longer LK4 Pro, and it is running modded Marlin 1.1.9. In Cura the Alphawise U30 dropdown works perfect. Looking up information under Longer LK4 Pro seems more available.

Tomorrow I'll start looking for info on these printers, then install Cura and get logged into Fusion360 again. Need to do a cal cube and some e-step cal unless the Ender 3 or Alfawise/Longer profiles resolve really well.

Here's the assembly vid:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8OcQx3hhNw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D8OcQx3hhNw)

mnem
 :=\

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 22, 2020, 04:10:20 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=953930;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=953922;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=953926;image)

This pleases me...

Family (and TEA family on the Discord ;)) finally let me get away long enough to finish installing Fusion360 & Cura; this is the first actual print off the machine.

I'm using the Alfawise U30 profile built into Cura 4.5; I've done precisely ZERO tweaking of the model except to select fine .1mm LH. Really hard to get better than that stock out of the box; some "Elephant foot" distortion of the bottom few layers is responsible for the difference in the Z-axis. I'm printing another one sliced with bed at 50°C instead of the profile default 60°C; also releveled "a hair looser". What I can see has no such distortion; if it completes successfully, I'll start a benchy with the same settings before I toddle off to ded.

BTW... the TouchScreen UI is just... sweet. Everything you need to USE the thing, laid out in an intuitive fashion. Of course no command-line UI; if you want to tweak the Marlin FW you'll have to do it the hard way via serial.  :-//

mnem
 :phew:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 22, 2020, 04:28:04 am
Nice to see you using 'proper measurements' now you are in the Great White North and thanks for putting the numbers the right way up for those of down here  ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 22, 2020, 04:36:13 am
In all honesty... working as a mechanic, then as a engineer, then as a mechanic again... I've been thinking in metric for decades, all except for temp and travel distance. The change internally is incremental at best. ;)

mnem
I can still "see" the difference between SAE & metric pitch threads, tho...  :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 22, 2020, 11:31:43 am
68.61 mm? That's waaaaay off dude! :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on March 22, 2020, 01:29:47 pm
I have to admit my first 3 seconds saw that number as well.....  ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 22, 2020, 05:39:06 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=954210;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=954214;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=954178;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=954182;image)   

2nd XYZ Cubey after relevel & dropping bed temp to 50°C. Some X-axis banding indicates I need to tighten up the belt on the printhead a bit. That recurring blem on the top surface as the printhead leaves the finished print is something I should be able to fix in Cura; it appears on 3DBenchy too. Honestly, quite decent prints as-is, tho.  :-+

Time to move onto the SS Benchy.  ;)

mnem
"That'll do, Digg. That'll do."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 23, 2020, 12:13:34 am
Toot-Tooot!

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=954420;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=954458;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=954424;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=954428;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=954452;image)   

Very pleased with Benchy too. A few slubs in the finish on the hull, a little stringing on the underside of the roof, some clumping at the top of the arches. I could spend days tweaking to get rid of these, but really the only bit that bothers me is how poorly the print on the stern resolved; that should be a little more pronounced, even given how shallow the depth is. The random slubs on the surface are likely due to settings affecting the layer starting points; I can probably tune that out in Cura but like everything, there are tradeoffs.

Generally, I make functional pieces rather than decorative... so even if I don't change a damned thing, still pleased.  :-+

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=954468;image)


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 23, 2020, 11:12:13 am
Try this one mnementh.  :popcorn:

[attach=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 24, 2020, 12:20:53 am
Currently working on a temp tower to get bridging somewhat under control. Then a petsfang E3 V2 so I can get away from these screamin-mimi 30-40mm fans.  :palm: Then, once I have the wind blowing my way, I'll try some stringing towers to get extrusion/retraction dialed in.

Then, I had my eye on this:   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=955114;image)

mnem
*ice cream headache*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 24, 2020, 01:29:26 am
So Dave was given a Resin Printer but wasn't sent any resin to use it with :palm: When pointed out he would be needing IPA for cleanup too  :-DD

[attachimg=1]


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PQo9_6dAy0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PQo9_6dAy0)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 24, 2020, 01:46:32 am
LOL.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 24, 2020, 02:23:14 am
"Here, have this 2-man nuclear submarine to review FOR FREE!!! Fuel not included."

mnem
"Radiation suits, fuel containment and chelating treatments extra."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on March 24, 2020, 04:30:21 pm
That is a truly wicked test print mnementh!  I can't imagine how you get those 90 degree overhangs to work (apparently without printing support).  I have found it easier to design those overhangs out of prints than to make them work.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 24, 2020, 05:46:47 pm
Here's what came off my printer. I did re-size the object because I didn't want to wait 14 hours for a 0.1mm resolution print. It's sized down 50%, so the small print is not clear, but the rest looks pretty good.

[attach=1]

[attach=2]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 24, 2020, 08:19:34 pm
@xrunner: I'll be tickled purple with pink polka-dots if I get similar results. ;)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=955114;image)   
That is a truly wicked test print mnementh!  I can't imagine how you get those 90 degree overhangs to work (apparently without printing support).  I have found it easier to design those overhangs out of prints than to make them work.

LOL! I haven't DONE the print yet... I wanted to try and get my cooling fans situated and the Petsfang printed/installed first. That is a computer render from the page on Thingiverse: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2656594

mnem
*currently shopping a floor sweeper and 5015 blowers*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on March 24, 2020, 11:44:18 pm
Try this one mnementh.  :popcorn:

(Attachment Link)

Actually this is the one I thought was crazy hard.  Sorry about the confusion.  The overhang test one seems doable.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on March 24, 2020, 11:56:14 pm
Here's what came off my printer. I did re-size the object because I didn't want to wait 14 hours for a 0.1mm resolution print. It's sized down 50%, so the small print is not clear, but the rest looks pretty good.

(Attachment Link)

(Attachment Link)
Looks like there are some improvements to be had. What printer is that?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 25, 2020, 12:12:20 am
What printer is that?

It was a basic Ender 3 Pro, but now it's hardly the same thing now. It has X,Y, and Z linear rails, a 32 bit SKR mini main board with TMC2209 silent stepper drivers, Marlin 2.0.5.2 firmware with manual mesh bed leveling and linear advance nozzle pressure compensation enabled (I compile the firmware myself), and a glass bed with a surface that is amazing in it's ability to stick the prints down.

It works extremely well and I am very pleased with it's accuracy and performance.  :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 25, 2020, 06:48:43 am
Some good ideas in this one from Angus for those still learning there way around Fusion 360 and 3D printed limits :-+

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzCm1iTf8PA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FzCm1iTf8PA)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 25, 2020, 11:12:46 am
Some good ideas in this one from Angus for those still learning there way around Fusion 360 and 3D printed limits :-+

Funny you should post that video, I just ran across it yesterday but haven't watched it yet. I've been using Tinkercad for my own designs and it's pretty powerful in it's own way, but I know I need to use Fusion eventually.

I've been stuck at a low level in Fusion 360 for a while, because I had a hard time understanding the "philosophy" of the way it all works, and the overwhelming number of selections presented to you on-screen. But I finally decided to keep watching the tutorials and I think I'm getting over the hump. For me, this person paved the way yesterday and I understand it a whole lot better because of his examples -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ByAnvgcRV8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ByAnvgcRV8)

I'll design a trivial part in Fusion 360 and post it for your entertainment later.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 25, 2020, 07:37:56 pm
I made this plate today. It isn't for anything specific but just for play. I might be "getting" it, at least for simple things.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 25, 2020, 07:40:46 pm
 :-+

mnem
*currently nuking the perf*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 25, 2020, 08:06:30 pm
I made this plate today. It isn't for anything specific but just for play. I might be "getting" it, at least for simple things.

(Attachment Link)

 :-+ stick at it.

Rather than use the Hole function I find generally drawing the circles on a sketch easier. In the case of your design you could also then use the Circular pattern feature so draw one then add the three others with it. In your initial sketch this same method can also be used to copy one of the square arms into the four of them too. So your initial sketch would be one circle and three lines for one arm patterned into four then add the centre square.

Doing this there is no need to make the hole later as you never actually extrude it when doing the extrudes for the body.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 25, 2020, 09:09:11 pm
:-+ stick at it.

Rather than use the Hole function I find generally drawing the circles on a sketch easier. In the case of your design you could also then use the Circular pattern feature so draw one then add the three others with it. In your initial sketch this same method can also be used to copy one of the square arms into the four of them too. So your initial sketch would be one circle and three lines for one arm patterned into four then add the centre square.

Doing this there is no need to make the hole later as you never actually extrude it when doing the extrudes for the body.

Thanks. There are so many ways to do things in that program. I think that's what the intimidating thing was. I kinda basically froze after starting because I didn't understand the steps and there were so many menu choices. For whatever reason, the one video series I found yesterday seemed to get me over the hump.

Right now I don't see why I couldn't make anything I've already made in Tinkercad in Fusion 360. Yay.  :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on March 25, 2020, 09:14:56 pm
Am I the only one who prefers to do parts and mechanisms in OpenSCAD?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 25, 2020, 09:56:26 pm
Yes. On the entire planet.  >:D

mnem
*currently cursing himself for not checking every piece of ANYTHING that comes from AliEx*   |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: georges80 on March 25, 2020, 11:50:37 pm
Bought a prusa 3 for my younger son that is at college, 3rd yr of mech eng. He is using it for fun, but also to make models/jigs etc for the suspension of their formula sae vehicle. This is done with solidworks.

I can send him solidworks files and he can then slice them etc and print them for me. When he visits (about 90 miles away) he brings the printed models to me.

I wanted an inline switch for powerpole cables. I use powerpole in my 4wd and various things plug in. Many have their own switch, but the pump I use to transfer water from tanks/wells to the bladder in my 4wd doesn't. So, designed up a small box that takes a powerpole pair at each end and runs the +12 through the inline switch. The switch is lit when 'on', so easy to tell what is going on.

Here's a render of the design. Has the slots to key with the powerpoles and also the hole for the roll pin to lock each end in place. Turned out quite functional.

[attach=1]

Printed in PETG:

[attach=2]

[attach=3]

cheers,
george.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 25, 2020, 11:59:52 pm
:-+ stick at it.

Rather than use the Hole function I find generally drawing the circles on a sketch easier. In the case of your design you could also then use the Circular pattern feature so draw one then add the three others with it. In your initial sketch this same method can also be used to copy one of the square arms into the four of them too. So your initial sketch would be one circle and three lines for one arm patterned into four then add the centre square.

Doing this there is no need to make the hole later as you never actually extrude it when doing the extrudes for the body.

Thanks. There are so many ways to do things in that program. I think that's what the intimidating thing was. I kinda basically froze after starting because I didn't understand the steps and there were so many menu choices. For whatever reason, the one video series I found yesterday seemed to get me over the hump.

Right now I don't see why I couldn't make anything I've already made in Tinkercad in Fusion 360. Yay.  :)

Three good Fusion Channels well worth a watch. Brad and Lars do work for the Evil Empire of Autodesk but their channels are independent and just great resources. Kevin of Product Design Online is a fairly new one but lots of 3D printing based tutorials as well.

https://www.youtube.com/user/TheKHaug (https://www.youtube.com/user/TheKHaug) Really good Basics videos with some 3D printing

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo29kn3d9ziFUZGZ50VKvWA (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCo29kn3d9ziFUZGZ50VKvWA) not a lot of recent content but his 'Absolute Beginners series' was excellent for me initially.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLEVULiWognkczOpDSGSlFg/videos (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCLEVULiWognkczOpDSGSlFg/videos)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: pipe2null on March 26, 2020, 12:04:57 am
Am I the only one who prefers to do parts and mechanisms in OpenSCAD?
I'm on linux so free CAD options are limited, thus I do everything with OpenSCAD.  But I also recommend OpenSCAD for everyone new to CAD in general too, even if you have Windows.  The learning curve is short, mainly just the scripting syntax, and the limited basic built-in elements is actually better IMHO when you are starting out.  Learning the basics of how to take cylinders, cubes, etc and intersect/difference them to create more complex designs is much easier when you don't have a million and one menu choices, or have to click here, there, and everywhere in a specific order with different tool pallets in order to create basic objects.  Just from the videos from the posts above, you have to click a bunch of places with a bunch of tool pallets to accomplish the same thing as "cube([myX,myY,myZ]);".

Plus I like OpenSCAD even more since I've started transitioning my designs toward mainly using my own script libraries (module/for/if/etc statements with local and global variables).  If you structure your scripts well, you can implement layers and global keepouts, plus psuedo-support for multi-material STL file sets.  I generally lay out all constant values at the beginning of the file as global variables, and then do all math, positioning, and object definitions based solely on those variables instead of constants so I can change a single variable (rod_to_rod_distance or rod_diameter for example) and every individual part in my design is automatically updated.  I'm sure there are advanced features in other software that can do this and much much more, but doing it within the simple scripting language of OpenSCAD is really straight forward.  Well...  Implementing layers and global keepouts tracked to specific repositionable objects/modules is slightly less straight forward but do-able.

That said, due to poor final rendering performance for high facet counts ($fn > 180), I've started looking elsewhere.  I'm a bit daunted by the learning curve for Blender...  Has anyone used Blender for CAD work specifically for 3D printing parts and such (not modelling figures/etc)?  Or other software with linux support?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 26, 2020, 12:05:07 am
Am I the only one who prefers to do parts and mechanisms in OpenSCAD?

I hear Crickets  :-DD Whatever your choice of weapon is so long as you get what you need then  :-+ There is a few exceptions to that like Tinkercad which people will run into it's limits really quickly.


Bought a prusa 3 for my younger son that is at college, 3rd yr of mech eng. He is using it for fun, but also to make models/jigs etc for the suspension of their formula sae vehicle. This is done with solidworks.

I can send him solidworks files and he can then slice them etc and print them for me. When he visits (about 90 miles away) he brings the printed models to me.

I wanted an inline switch for powerpole cables. I use powerpole in my 4wd and various things plug in. Many have their own switch, but the pump I use to transfer water from tanks/wells to the bladder in my 4wd doesn't. So, designed up a small box that takes a powerpole pair at each end and runs the +12 through the inline switch. The switch is lit when 'on', so easy to tell what is going on.

Here's a render of the design. Has the slots to key with the powerpoles and also the hole for the roll pin to lock each end in place. Turned out quite functional.

...
cheers,
george.

Good solid looking model :) If the delay ever gets to be a bug then the solution is simple add a Prusa Mini to your place as well 8)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 26, 2020, 12:08:16 am
Am I the only one who prefers to do parts and mechanisms in OpenSCAD?
I'm on linux so free CAD options are limited, thus I do everything with OpenSCAD.  But I also recommend OpenSCAD for everyone new to CAD in general too, even if you have Windows. 

SNIP

That said, due to poor final rendering performance for high facet counts ($fn > 180), I've started looking elsewhere.  I'm a bit daunted by the learning curve for Blender...  Has anyone used Blender for CAD work specifically for 3D printing parts and such (not modelling figures/etc)?  Or other software with linux support?

Fusion 360 with some Linux pain can be done so don't necessarily dismiss it from your options. https://all3dp.com/2/fusion-360-for-linux-how-to-install-it/
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: pipe2null on March 26, 2020, 12:33:32 am
Fusion 360 with some Linux pain can be done so don't necessarily dismiss it from your options. https://all3dp.com/2/fusion-360-for-linux-how-to-install-it/

Heh...  From my point of view, it's "Windows pain".   ;D  Technically speaking, I have multiple machines that multi-boot with both Windows and linux but I never want to boot Windows for some reason.  But my home lab computer that I do all this kinda stuff on is linux only, so need linux-friendly software that doesn't require Windows installed in a virtual machine.  Good suggestion though, thanks!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 26, 2020, 12:50:07 am
I made this plate today. It isn't for anything specific but just for play. I might be "getting" it, at least for simple things.

(Attachment Link)

Spent a few minutes over a coffee with your model and just for to flesh out some of the concepts I mentioned (pre coffee still in bed so I forgot there would be two circles to copy ;) ) ** One thing to watch out for is make sure all the lines on your model turn black meaning they are fully dimensioned in space or you will likely break the model later. On my sketch I have used the symmetry constraint from the guidelines to make the dimensioning more simple.

Take the five elements that form the arm and do the circular pattern thing on them.

Combined all fillets but still grouped them to allow easy changing of them independent of each other.

Note the tighter timeline too which will help you find things on more complex models later.

So give it a bash your end and try the same basic model using the different options until you find your happy place.  :)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on March 26, 2020, 01:31:29 am
You meanies ;D

I like to use POV-Ray (http://povray.org/), too.  It has slightly different syntax, but very similar approach; both OpenSCAD and POV-Ray are based on a script language defining constructive solid geometry.  There are some tools one can use to convert OpenSCAD to POV-Ray, if you want much better rendering quality.

Right now, for example, I'm using it to play with different ways of doing a box enclosure for my 3D printer.  I'm actually thinking of making the box from 20×40mm box section, with the Y and Z rails (8mm round bar) directly anchored to the enclosure.  It is useful, because I can make the measurements parametric, and play with specific sizes and how it'd look in practice.  (I don't have any welding equipment, and the local Hacklab is closed for now.)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 26, 2020, 01:42:13 am
Spent a few minutes over a coffee with your model and just for to flesh out some of the concepts I mentioned (pre coffee still in bed so I forgot there would be two circles to copy ;) ) ** One thing to watch out for is make sure all the lines on your model turn black meaning they are fully dimensioned in space or you will likely break the model later. On my sketch I have used the symmetry constraint from the guidelines to make the dimensioning more simple.

That's great thanks for doing that.  :-+ That really shows what you are talking about.

I see what you mean and will try some tomorrow. I did try a "mirror" operation this afternoon and got that to work. Since we are on lockdown what else do I have to do?  :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on March 26, 2020, 01:58:43 am
FreeCAD is another choice.   Has some nice features.  Linux compatible.  Biggest drawback I have found is largest files for a given model around.  A good part of that can be controlled by how you model.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 26, 2020, 02:19:24 am
New version of PrusaSlicer also out today with some nice new features. Built in config files for non Prusa printers is a great extra for those of us who haven't drunk the KoolAid  >:D

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy3u4DNh_XQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wy3u4DNh_XQ)

Download here https://github.com/prusa3d/PrusaSlicer/releases (https://github.com/prusa3d/PrusaSlicer/releases)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 26, 2020, 01:04:37 pm
Take the five elements that form the arm and do the circular pattern thing on them.

Combined all fillets but still grouped them to allow easy changing of them independent of each other.

Note the tighter timeline too which will help you find things on more complex models later.

So give it a bash your end and try the same basic model using the different options until you find your happy place.  :)

It really works!  :clap:

[attachimg=1]

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: pipe2null on March 26, 2020, 06:10:45 pm
I like to use POV-Ray (http://povray.org/), too.  It has slightly different syntax, but very similar approach; both OpenSCAD and POV-Ray are based on a script language defining constructive solid geometry.  There are some tools one can use to convert OpenSCAD to POV-Ray, if you want much better rendering quality.
FreeCAD is another choice.   Has some nice features.  Linux compatible.  Biggest drawback I have found is largest files for a given model around.  A good part of that can be controlled by how you model.
Thanks, I'll try those out.

Right now, for example, I'm using it to play with different ways of doing a box enclosure for my 3D printer.  I'm actually thinking of making the box from 20×40mm box section, with the Y and Z rails (8mm round bar) directly anchored to the enclosure.  It is useful, because I can make the measurements parametric, and play with specific sizes and how it'd look in practice.  (I don't have any welding equipment, and the local Hacklab is closed for now.)
Very cool.  I've been making a bunch of simpler parts/brackets/cases/whatnot for different projects.  So far the most "practical for more than myself" thing I've designed from scratch is a shop vac hose adapter for a fixed base wood router, all OpenSCAD.  When I eventually get around to it, hopefully v2.0 of the adapter won't need a zip tie.   ;)
[attach=1]

Down the road a bit I want to get into RepRap and build my own 3d printer from mostly scratch...  But that is a wayz off.  In Prusa's free printable parts download for the i3 MK3, they include OpenSCAD files for all the parts:
https://www.prusa3d.com/download-printable-parts-stl-mk3 (https://www.prusa3d.com/download-printable-parts-stl-mk3)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 26, 2020, 06:17:51 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957088;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957080;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957084;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957052;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957056;image)   

So after faulty cheap Chinese module number 17 takes a trip to the woods, I have some little MP1584EN-based switchers on the way, but they'll take a week or six because China. |O Engage "getting the fuck on with my life" mode. All I REALLY care about at this point is powering the 12V/0.12A 80mm Arctic silent case fan I just got in; it replaces one of the screamin' mimi 40mm fans on the unit, the one that cools the mainboard. While I AM pretty certain there's a setting where I could dial down the PWM for that fan channel in the firmware, I'm already annoyed and decide to apply the KISS principle. 500mA L78M12, a 47uF/16V MMLCC cap strapped across the output for stability and a bit of 0.100" pin header.

"But wait..." you cry out "There's no heat-sink, and that's still ~1.5W or so dropped across the poor thing."

But there is: 200mm of 18ga copper soldered right to the heat-sink tab. Thermal Design Considerations, yeahahh.   ;) And another similar mass of copper on the Vout. Yes, it MATTERS. Testing in situ reveals it gets just warm to the touch; maybe 45-50°C after 20 minutes. I sleeve it with some heat-shrink and plop the fan in place; put the bottom cover on the printer and set it upright. All told I've spent maybe an hour; that includes making a baffle and a filler panel for where the 40mm fan used to be. I really didn't expect it to make much difference yet; the hotend still has another 40x10mm & 30x10mm screamers on it. But it IS noticeable.  :-+   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957068;image) (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957072;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957076;image)

Of course, while I'm in there I find THIS:  :palm:  Reviewing my original pics of the inside, I see that the heatsink is in fact loose there too. Whether I hamfisted it loose while I was in there poking around, or it was never attached correctly I don't know.  :-// But this heatsink is just held on with cheap frag tape; unlike the ones on the TM2208s which are attached with silicone thermal cement.

So... I go shopping for some better heatsinks and maybe a tube of similar thermal cement, and I stumble across one of these MOSFET modules; following that rabbit-hole I find that while I can buy one for $11 and wait a month, I can get 4 of them PLUS wiring kit for $16 delivered TOMORROW. :o   https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B077PPWZLB/ (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B077PPWZLB/)

I'll let 'yall know how things look when it arrives; right now I'm trying to talk myself out of rebuilding the hotend with my kit of V6 parts, since I just found out the silicone socks I got with are NOT "close enough" to go on the Mk8 hotend.  |O

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957060;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957064;image)   

Someday I'll actually get around to printing the Petsfang and these much quieter 5015 & 4020 fans installed.  :-+

mnem
*hammering noises... chisel-chisel...!! braaap-braaaapppp...!! griiiiiiiiiiiind....!!!*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: pipe2null on March 26, 2020, 06:18:51 pm
"[ Attachment Invalid Or Does Not Exist ]"
[attach=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 26, 2020, 07:28:06 pm
Well if your little attachment is a invalid... should we get it a wee wheelchair...?

mnem
 >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: pipe2null on March 26, 2020, 08:44:23 pm
Well if your little attachment is a invalid... should we get it a wee wheelchair...?
Yes please.  With one of those little bell things on the handlebars.  Plus maybe a horn.   |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: georges80 on March 26, 2020, 09:11:07 pm
Bought a prusa 3 for my younger son that is at college, 3rd yr of mech eng.
...
cheers,
george.

Good solid looking model :) If the delay ever gets to be a bug then the solution is simple add a Prusa Mini to your place as well 8)

Well... the reason I bought it for 'him' was that my wife had already vetoed buying it for me. So, it was bought 'on the quiet' and shipped directly to him (out of town college). Since it was for 'him' it was 'ok'...

The veto is still in place :)

cheers,
george.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 26, 2020, 10:55:45 pm
Well if your little attachment is a invalid... should we get it a wee wheelchair...?
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957174;image)   Yes please.  With one of those little bell things on the handlebars.  Plus maybe a horn.   |O

LOL!  :-DD Thanks for the belly laugh. And nicely done on the dirtsucker. :-+

(https://media.giphy.com/media/bhSi84uFsp66s/giphy.gif)

mnem
(https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/drinks.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 26, 2020, 11:47:15 pm
Quote from: mnementh
...right now I'm trying to talk myself out of rebuilding the hotend with my kit of V6 parts, since I just found out the silicone socks I got with are NOT "close enough" to go on the Mk8 hotend. 

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957260;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957244;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957248;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957252;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957256;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957064;image)

Welp... of course y'all know I lost THAT discussion... :palm:

I actually got lucky and was able to re-use the heater & thermistor from the Mk8 hotend; and I already knew I'd have to reuse the throat. It all went back together ~0.10mm shorter tip height than the original; not bad for a "hybrid" build.  :-+ Now the thing heats up like BAM! and it's ready for to coexist with the PetsFang.  8)

mnem
Giggity!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on March 27, 2020, 03:36:35 am
Bought a prusa 3 for my younger son that is at college, 3rd yr of mech eng.
...
cheers,
george.

Good solid looking model :) If the delay ever gets to be a bug then the solution is simple add a Prusa Mini to your place as well 8)

Well... the reason I bought it for 'him' was that my wife had already vetoed buying it for me. So, it was bought 'on the quiet' and shipped directly to him (out of town college). Since it was for 'him' it was 'ok'...

The veto is still in place :)

cheers,
george.

You need to show your wife why she will benefit from you having the printer.  My wife loves it.  There have been quite a few repair parts, specialty sewing tools, and just gee-gaws for her that she loves.

Attached are some of the things I have made in this line.  The thimble is custom sized to fit the finger she uses.  Not easily commercially available.  The closet door guide was for her sister.  Older home and the existing extruded guides were failing and not available.   There are quite a few others. 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 27, 2020, 04:22:15 am
Bought a prusa 3 for my younger son that is at college, 3rd yr of mech eng.
...
cheers,
george.

Good solid looking model :) If the delay ever gets to be a bug then the solution is simple add a Prusa Mini to your place as well 8)

Well... the reason I bought it for 'him' was that my wife had already vetoed buying it for me. So, it was bought 'on the quiet' and shipped directly to him (out of town college). Since it was for 'him' it was 'ok'...

The veto is still in place :)

cheers,
george.

I think that having one for when he is home is appropriate and it would be only fair for you to keep it in good running order  :-DD As above pick SHMBO's favourite pastime and make appropriate bribes of usefulness  ;)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 27, 2020, 04:24:24 am
Quote from: mnementh
...right now I'm trying to talk myself out of rebuilding the hotend with my kit of V6 parts, since I just found out the silicone socks I got with are NOT "close enough" to go on the Mk8 hotend. 



I actually got lucky and was able to re-use the heater & thermistor from the Mk8 hotend; and I already knew I'd have to reuse the throat. It all went back together ~0.10mm shorter tip height than the original; not bad for a "hybrid" build.  :-+ Now the thing heats up like BAM! and it's ready for to coexist with the PetsFang.  8)

mnem
Giggity!

Having fun tinkering and cursing a little  :-DD Forgotten which exact Fang I have been putting on my printers but about time they or a dual outlet duct became standard ex factory  :horse:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 27, 2020, 12:38:53 pm
Well, the manufacturers have realized that what sells a printer more than performing great out of the box, is LOOKING like the thing is 100% "professional-made" with tidy wiring and neat stamped sheetmetal instead of printed parts. While I certainly could design a fang from stamped aluminum, it would NOT be a cheap part to make in "small numbers" as these things are made.

In my case the reason for going with the fang is not the usual "i wanna print mobius strips without supports" or "i wanna print ninjaflex at 200mm/s" performance-type shit... I just wanna get away from the noisy-ass cheap little fans that always come on these things. This printer actually works pretty damn well right out of the box, and the stepper motors are quiet with the TM2208 drivers, as promised. So far I've spent ~$320 on the thing, and about $40 of that is spares I haven't needed yet. :-+

If you can stand the noise of 3 3010/4010 fans going full-blast, I'd say all this printer needs out of the box is another $10 for the single-drive aluminum extruder; that plastic thing they put on there is a worse POS than the E3 one that has already earned CReality more than a few jeers. But even that is "fixable" with a little ingenuity, as I've shown. :-+

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: exe on March 27, 2020, 01:12:19 pm
Am I the only one who prefers to do parts and mechanisms in OpenSCAD?

I found it very difficult to do actual figures. The next step was to use SolidPython, that improved things, but not much. Things I missed: you can't get sizes and boundary boxes for shapes, there is no way to automatically align shapes, it's hard to make complex shapes such as threads (what is one click in, say autocad, can take me forever in openscad), performance was deserving more. My toolkit was solidpython + jypiter notebook + some plugin to render shapes.

I also tried freecad, I did two attempts. One was unsuccessful because thing was crashing all the time. The second one failed because I wasn't able to figure out how ui works (by that time I completely forgot how to use it)  :-// . Sure there are plenty of tutorials, but... For now I use tinkercad. If one wants, it supports parametrized shapes too. I'm looking for more powerful tools, but I'm on Linux, so choices are limited.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 27, 2020, 05:27:28 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957834;image)

Currently printing the smaller one, with Bridging features enabled in Cura.  :-+

mnem
*tinker-tinker...putter-putter...*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: pipe2null on March 27, 2020, 05:30:01 pm
Am I the only one who prefers to do parts and mechanisms in OpenSCAD?

I found it very difficult to do actual figures. The next step was to use SolidPython, that improved things, but not much. Things I missed: you can't get sizes and boundary boxes for shapes, there is no way to automatically align shapes, it's hard to make complex shapes such as threads (what is one click in, say autocad, can take me forever in openscad), performance was deserving more. My toolkit was solidpython + jypiter notebook + some plugin to render shapes.
...

Have you tried using Blender?  I haven't touched Blender yet due to steep learning curve.  Hoping someone else has already done the homework and I might...  Well, not copy their homework, but might find out if it is worth the significant time and effort to learn the software if I'm only using it for CAD designing parts and whatnot (No figurines for me since I can do stick figures and that's... About... It...).  Apparently there are ways to import OpenSCAD files into Blender, or app to translate scad into the script Blender uses to control animation/etc., something like that.  I'm still a big fan of OpenSCAD for a bunch of different reasons, but I'm starting to outgrow it.

EDIT: For the most part, I'm linux-only as well.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 27, 2020, 05:41:37 pm
Annoyance: Stupid Diggro Alpha3 FW turns the bed & hotend off whenever you start the 5-point leveling sequence.  |O

mnem
"That's right, dumbass... hotend and heated bed are HOT!!!"
"They're SUPPOSED TO BE, dumber than dumb-ass!"
:palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 27, 2020, 06:26:26 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957880;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957904;image)

Hmmm... Some stringing in the first layers I didn't have before. Dunno if that's the new hotend or because I decided to angle the layer fan for clearance instead of lowering the printhead.

I'll let it finish a few more bridges before I stop it; but think I wanna get that blower nozzle so it's not blowing so much right at the bed.

mnem
"Lazy dwagon... BAD!!! Bad lazy dwagon!!!"
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: exe on March 27, 2020, 07:57:07 pm
Have you tried using Blender?

Yes, and I wasn't happy. I design purely engineering things (enclosures, etc) and I need features like precise sizing, shaping, aligning, library of components, etc. It felt that blender is just a wrong tool for it. It's not a CAD.

I also didn't get far with it, I think I got confused a few times and gave up on it. I asked around what people use, fusion 360 is very common, but I wasn't able to run it on my system. Also, I wanted to try designspark, didn't run either. So, probably, I'll end up with a windows vm.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 27, 2020, 10:40:27 pm
Have you tried using Blender?

Yes, and I wasn't happy. I design purely engineering things (enclosures, etc) and I need features like precise sizing, shaping, aligning, library of components, etc. It felt that blender is just a wrong tool for it. It's not a CAD.

I also didn't get far with it, I think I got confused a few times and gave up on it. I asked around what people use, fusion 360 is very common, but I wasn't able to run it on my system. Also, I wanted to try designspark, didn't run either. So, probably, I'll end up with a windows vm.

Have you  given this a try on your Linux Box and Fusion 360? https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2982186/#msg2982186 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2982186/#msg2982186)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 27, 2020, 10:46:35 pm
...I'll let it finish a few more bridges before I stop it; but think I wanna get that blower nozzle so it's not blowing so much right at the bed.

mnem
"Lazy dwagon... BAD!!! Bad lazy dwagon!!!"

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=958018;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=958010;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=958014;image)   

Welp, that'll learn me. I stopped the print at ~45%; figured I'd realign the layer fan nozzle. I was gonna just sand half a mm off the bottom edge, but couldn't find anything coarser than 580 grit.

"It's less than a mm. Just fire up the soldering iron and "reform" the nozzle a bit." I said to myself; famous last words... ::)

Made MUCH more difference than I intended; a good 3mm too shallow. Now it blows right on the heatblock, and very little on the print. |O

After another 30 minutes fettling, I restored it to MOSTLY correct profile... and was able to drop it all a couple mm so most of the nozzle is below the heatblock.

THEN I looked at the test print I took off early...    :palm:   Why did I even bother effing with it...? Not perfect, but definitely not bad either.

mnem
I don't know what to do with myself when something just works. :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 27, 2020, 11:44:03 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957880;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957904;image)

Hmmm... Some stringing in the first layers I didn't have before. Dunno if that's the new hotend or because I decided to angle the layer fan for clearance instead of lowering the printhead.

I'll let it finish a few more bridges before I stop it; but think I wanna get that blower nozzle so it's not blowing so much right at the bed.

mnem
"Lazy dwagon... BAD!!! Bad lazy dwagon!!!"

The other thing to do would be add some Capricorn https://www.captubes.com/ (https://www.captubes.com/) It helped my reduce the retraction needed on my CR10 and Enders.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 28, 2020, 12:31:55 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=958054;image)

Just made it worse.  |O

mnem
*toddles off to get a toddy for my body*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on March 28, 2020, 01:01:24 am
Seems our dwagon is doing an Edison...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 28, 2020, 04:22:59 pm
Sure feels that way.  |O  Think I'm going to bend that shit back the way it was, and if it prints bridges as well as the first one I'll set it to work on the 'fang. Not a lot of point in effing around with this setup any longer. :-//

mnem
moo...?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: exe on March 28, 2020, 05:24:09 pm
Have you  given this a try on your Linux Box and Fusion 360? https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2982186/#msg2982186 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2982186/#msg2982186)

Not yet, but will do. Unfortunately, my current laptop doesn't have much resources, but I give it a try... Thanks for the link.

Am I the only one who prefers to do parts and mechanisms in OpenSCAD?

For openscad lovers, I wonder what you think of SolveSpace. Looks like an interesting tool: it's a visual design tool, but it work very interestingly: size of shapes are constrained/parametrized by dimensions. So, this way it's sort of best of two worlds: it's parametric (sort of), and visual. Before jumping into it a youtube tutorial is highly recommend. I'm playing with it right now, looks interesting, but I'm a bit lost in UI.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 28, 2020, 07:29:06 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957880;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957904;image)   Hmmm... Some stringing in the first layers I didn't have before. Dunno if that's the new hotend or because I decided to angle the layer fan for clearance instead of lowering the printhead.I'll let it finish a few more bridges before I stop it; but think I wanna get that blower nozzle so it's not blowing so much right at the bed.

mnem
"Lazy dwagon... BAD!!! Bad lazy dwagon!!!"
The other thing to do would be add some Capricorn https://www.captubes.com/ (https://www.captubes.com/) It helped my reduce the retraction needed on my CR10 and Enders.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=958672;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=958664;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=958668;image)   

Looking much better. Much less stringing on the bottom, though a little thin at (I think but not sure) the end points of the initial strings, so extrusion "coasting" needs a little tweak...? I need to get video of it "throwing the first line" to be sure where it's happening.  Thinking I maybe need to increase nozzle temp a little to get better layer adhesion in the first few layers; tho from what I've seen, mine is a pretty tame example of "spaghetti layers" during bridging.

Hmmm... I actually haven't done the extrusion cal yet; Good point.  :-+ Aside from minor tweaks in Cura, bone-stock.

I was considering Cap tube for my Tornado before the move, but really didn't think it would make a lot of difference with the short-short length of the tube in the E3/clones. Is it really worth the $22-27/kit in your mind...? Are the fittings they include in the kit actually part of the Cap "magic sauce"...?

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 28, 2020, 08:30:18 pm
As the fittings supplied with the earlier Enders were fairly much crap yes. Tighter tolerance on the Tube and knowing the Tube is ok with higher Temperatures over unknown cheap tube is worth it. I was able to reduce the retraction after fitting it on all of mine.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 29, 2020, 12:43:20 am
[attachimg=1]

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3915647 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3915647)

Stumbled across this while looking for instructions on the Fang; for some reason, I immediately thought of you, bean.  :-DD

mnem
*tinker-tinker-putter*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: pipe2null on March 29, 2020, 02:12:02 am
For openscad lovers, I wonder what you think of SolveSpace. Looks like an interesting tool: it's a visual design tool, but it work very interestingly: size of shapes are constrained/parametrized by dimensions. So, this way it's sort of best of two worlds: it's parametric (sort of), and visual. Before jumping into it a youtube tutorial is highly recommend. I'm playing with it right now, looks interesting, but I'm a bit lost in UI.
I've been playing with SolveSpace for the past few hours after reading your post...  For me, my "mental workflow" for doing designs is grossly influenced by openscad, so I'm used to assigning all known constants (like measured/spec'ed PCB dimensions) to variable names, then only using variable names when defining objects (like "cube([pcb_x,pcb_y,pcb_z]);"), so it keeps all constant values, or SolveSpace's "D or N keyboard shortcut" constraints at the beginning of my scad file (or in a separate imported file containing all global constants) and easy to edit when I realize for the millionth time that I screwed something up.  And then I have a section where I assign all my own constants to variable names (like "box_z=pcb_z+my_innerdepth;").  So, I don't really like the steps you have to do to enter constant values in SolveSpace, and I haven't found a way in SolveSpace to use variables, but I guess the assumption is you shouldn't care since the constraint solver kinda takes care of that kinda stuff behind the scenes...  So, after messing around with it for a few hours, the ui and entering constant values is a little awkward to me.

BUT I really like the functionality of SolveSpace's constraint system.  It's freakin cool (for free linux-friendly software).  I don't know, I might do a couple projects with it to see how the end-to-printed-object work flow works out.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 29, 2020, 03:14:23 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=958884;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=958888;image)

Oooooh... shiny... :o

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000530032943.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000530032943.html)

mnem
 :popcorn:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 29, 2020, 04:55:37 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=959346;image)   

Looks sweet with the fan on there... too bad that's the back of the piece.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=959342;image)   

Had some blobbing issues with the first few layers... either I had it leveled too high or maybe I'm completely out to lunch on layer fan speed. Extruder kept "pinging" back pretty explosively on retracts (I think); whenever that happened came a blob. This is more advanced-level print quality diag; I'm afraid I'm just too noob to know for sure...  :-\ But I'm thinking this may be the clear proof of what bean was saying about the Cap tube... very timely if so. ;)

Worse yet, this is the wrong part. I printed the nozzle for E3 with V6 hotend; turns out I needed the one for stock E3 with MicroSwiss hotend, which is essentially what I made when I built my "hybrid" V6 hotend.  |O

I'm making the correct base now; we'll see if i can mod this duct to fit it. Also looking at some Cap tube to go with my dual-gear extruder and do it all in one shot.

mnem
 ::)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 29, 2020, 06:06:34 pm
There is no listing of Capricorn tube on Amazon.ca that isn't on their "You don't need this; you have to wait a month even tho its in stock because COVID" list. |O

I can buy the new CNC extruder from CReality Store & the 50mm fan I need for what I'm printing and get them here tomorrow for US$19 tho.  :o But if I add even the most expensive Cap tube kit (incidentally, ALSO from them) BAM! split order with the tube set aside for April 26 delivery.  >:(

mnem
 :bullshit:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 29, 2020, 07:01:49 pm
I backslid in Fusion 360 for a couple of days. I realized I didn't understand all the constraint rules and I wasn't using them right. So I had to turn off the TV and get busy. But after the appropriate videos I got back on track I think - so moving on ahead full steam ...  :box:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 29, 2020, 10:10:48 pm
Had some blobbing issues with the first few layers... either I had it leveled too high or maybe I'm completely out to lunch on layer fan speed. Extruder kept "pinging" back pretty explosively on retracts (I think); whenever that happened came a blob. This is more advanced-level print quality diag; I'm afraid I'm just too noob to know for sure...  :-\ But I'm thinking this may be the clear proof of what bean was saying about the Cap tube... very timely if so. ;)

Worse yet, this is the wrong part. I printed the nozzle for E3 with V6 hotend; turns out I needed the one for stock E3 with MicroSwiss hotend, which is essentially what I made when I built my "hybrid" V6 hotend.  |O

I'm making the correct base now; we'll see if i can mod this duct to fit it. Also looking at some Cap tube to go with my dual-gear extruder and do it all in one shot.

mnem
 ::)

Welp... It turns out I CAN mod the E3 base to fit my Diggro... but it's a lot of hot-knife & Dremel butchery, and even then the whole thing is like 1-2mm off-center. Just enough that I don't like it, but I'm STILL probably going to try it.  :-DD

Trying to talk myself out of hacking up the duct to fit too; but I have my printer tore apart with pieces scattered from hell to breakfast, and I don't think I can make myself put it back together to print the correct duct, then tear it all apart again to install it. ::)

However, the teardown did reveal one thing... I believe I did not quite have my Bowden tube sealed tight in the bottom of the throat, or maybe the coupler skipped a little on account of being taken apart/together a few times. I found a blob in the bottom of the throat, and it was definitely larger than the ID of the tube. I think I was experiencing my first ever "intermittent clog". :-//

I'm going to try cutting a few mm off the tube & see if I can get it so it bites on fresh material when I reassemble. Though this does still indicate the melt point is higher than it should be in the throat... |O

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 30, 2020, 01:07:16 am
I backslid in Fusion 360 for a couple of days. I realized I didn't understand all the constraint rules and I wasn't using them right. So I had to turn off the TV and get busy. But after the appropriate videos I got back on track I think - so moving on ahead full steam ...  :box:

Constraints are great when you get them sorted in particular the symmetry one. The only things I tend to leave not fully constrained (black lines) are complex curves which can be fully constrained but it means fully dimensioning the nodes in space as well as the direction and weight of the handles at those nodes. Sometimes it has to be done to avoid breakage later but most times you can fudge it  ;)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 30, 2020, 01:10:28 am

Constraints are great when you get them sorted in particular the symmetry one. The only things I tend to leave not fully constrained (black lines) are complex curves which can be fully constrained but it means fully dimensioning the nodes in space as well as the direction and weight of the handles at those nodes. Sometimes it has to be done to avoid breakage later but most times you can fudge it  ;)

Let me ask you this then - does it really matter for a "hobby" project if the sketch is fully and properly constrained? I can do it now, but is it really all that necessary?

Thanks.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 30, 2020, 01:31:06 am
As an example a very simple enclosure where the dimensions of the rebate are correct and in the right position but not fully constrained. It would work and or print just fine. But if you slip or something you do later caused the rebate to move ERROR.....  :palm:

The Lid is still one part but by bumping the rebate (grossly) your project would fail. If you then for example added some holes through the lid based on non constrained geometry you would likely get very broken including failed extrude cuts etc.

I was sent an early Cover from someone who was having constrainment related issues causing his model to break but I wouldn't name that fire breather >:D A 'fix' he tried to apply later was causing issues. Tidied up the early sketches and properly constrained them and problem solved.

So good practice to do it but you can get away with it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 30, 2020, 04:00:40 am
Yup. And I still haven't got them figured out, so I muddle through as best I can. ;)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=959684;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=959688;image)

Figured out most of my major malfunction with the Fang print... the effed-up stock fan. That I effed up.  :palm: 

While I had it all apart, I decided to go back to basics; I cleaned the throat & re-installed the Bowden tube, making sure to clamp it down a good 2-3 turns after bottoming out. Could feel it stiff in the coupler too.  :-+ Next I tried running the filament by hand; cold, I could feel it move smoothly down the entire tube and bottom out solidly and cleanly without drag. But hot... it would extrude, barely; tiny little eyelash hairs of filament and it felt like pushing a bus.

Cranked the heat up to 200, then 210° and finally I got proper extrusion. I had been running at the default 190° with good results; but that was before the V6 & silicone sock. I'm pretty sure once I have the Fang on there so the layer cooling is blowing under the hotend instead of half on it, things will go back to normal. Right now I've started on the correct duct at 210° & 60° bed; got some good first layer going there.  :-+

So, now I'm getting started on the power for the fans... since I intend to add some LED lighting too, I'm thinking about using one of these Matek PDB modules to simplify 5V as well as 12V sources. :-/O

mnem
 :=\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 30, 2020, 12:14:17 pm
grr. clog. furry print fail. |O going back to bed.

mnem
also, grr.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 30, 2020, 11:16:25 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=960188;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=960176;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=960172;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=960180;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=960168;image)      (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=960184;image)

Very annoyed with Amazon, Creality Store and bean, just on GP.  >:D But mostly with myself, for not being able to resist fucking with a working printer... ::)

Ordered from Creality Store the single-drive CNC Extruder kit; the purchase let me get one of my fans next day. What arrived, however... was the same stupid cheap POS I could've gotten elsewhere for ~$7 less. I have the REAL Creality extruder on my Tornado; there simply is no comparison in the quality, especially the screws and couplers. And this POS doesn't even have the spring tension adjuster. My fault tho... I was tired, annoyed with my printer, and I should've looked at the pic closer; I picked the red one because it was supposed to be genuine CReality and the grey one like I have on my Tornado was "Prime, in stock, but you'll get it in a month" BS.  :palm:

Found a local supplier offering genuine Creality hotend kit with oodles of extra bits for only $US22; got that and a meter of Capricorn XS and some cogged idlers for US$46 W/Tax. The Creality kit will give me a known good hotend complete I can just drop in and finish printing the Fang, then have another as a spare and for fucking around with my weird hotend fetish. I REALLY hate the heat-block they use in the Mk8; it's the absolute cheapest grub-screw retention POS you can get from literally the stone-age of 3DP. I get rid of it and replace with slot & clamp type block with extreme prejudice ever since I had one in a hotend smoke me out of the room on my Tarantula; I could literally see the cartridge glowing red on the side held away from the block by the grub-screw. :palm:

Thing I can't understand is why this one is giving me so much shit; I did exactly this hybrid setup on both my Tarantula and my Tornado and never had any clogging problems. :wtf:

Anyways, tomorrow I go & pick up my order; they have the storefront closed but online sales and local pickup are still encouraged.  :-+ We'll see what comes of that. I'm right now seriously vacillating over whether to send this CNC extruder back and order the right one, Amazon Prime wait times be damned.  >:(   But the hotend kit will have decent couplers for the Cap XS tube, and I'm sure I can fab SOMETHING up to make a tension adjuster... maybe a printed cup to go inside the spring.  |O

mnem
Oh... and they have the MicroSwiss heat-block right there... for US$13... *wibble*





Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on March 31, 2020, 04:38:11 pm
Some artsy stuff I printed. Five platonic solids and another smaller art block I shrunk to see how it looked. Now I might print it out larger. All came out very nice especially the 5 solids. Very sharp and crisp corners.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: SiliconWizard on March 31, 2020, 04:56:11 pm
Nice. Whereas for my few needs, online 3D printing services were fine until now, I admit at the moment I'd like to have a 3D printer at home. ::)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 01, 2020, 03:41:38 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=94559.0;attach=960516;image)

Very nice results for FDM. If I get mine behaving like that, might print me up some RPG dice... That cube has a very Borg feel to it.  :-+

mnem
*toddles off to ded*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 01, 2020, 03:43:17 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=960740;image)

Groceries.    >:D
Back from digitmakers.ca with my order: 1m Capricorn Bowden tubing, 2 x 20T cogged idlers for X & Y, 2 x Formbot T-Rex hotend with 0.4mm SS nozzles (Bought just cuz they were $5), Micro-Swiss HeatBlock upgrade for Creality, 0.2mm Creality nozzle, Taiyo Ceramic trimpot driver (again, cuz it was only $5), 3mm ground shaft for other nefarious purposes, and Creality CR-10 hotend & service kit that even comes with pliers to crimp the terminals. Of course I'll solder mine; but the pliers are good enough to add to the tool drawer.  :-+ All parts also fit E3, therefore also my printer; lots of nice spares for US$22. All told, about US$70.

mnem
 :=\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 01, 2020, 10:59:16 pm
Welp... I tried to remix the stoopit base-bracket for the Fang in Fusion 360 to fit the "almost-but-not-quite-the-same-as-Ender" hotend backplate; couldn't even get it converted to a solid object because 20k + polys and it totally borked the thing even reducing it by half.  :palm:

I think I'm just going to do it the old-fashioned way; my eyeballs may be old, but they don't have polygon limits (that I can see ;)), and my hands may not be as steady as they used to be, but put an X-Acto knife in 'em and they'll slice this bracket better'n Cura.  :-DD

See y'all on the other side;

mnem
*slice... trim... file-file... hot-knife, file-file...*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 02, 2020, 12:35:47 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=961350;image)   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=961354;image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=961358;image)   

Okay... dumb question, for anyone who knows about 3DP. Which of these fittings for the Bowden tube are supposed to be "the good ones" and which the "crap ones" ? They ALL look like cheap China-direct pneumatic fittings to me... :-//

mnem
 :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on April 02, 2020, 12:50:56 am
I can't tell from the pics, but the main issue is how the little "fingers" hold the bowden tube so it doesn't move in and out a little when extruding, there's not much more to it. My tube was moving upon close examination, so I looked into a bowden "clamp". I made this one -

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4041920 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4041920)

It really works and the tube doesn't move a bit.  :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 02, 2020, 03:07:49 am
Okay... if you do the hotend side correctly, you tighten the fitting down after inserting the tube so the tube bottoms out and jams the coupling and it can't do that. Extruder drive end you can't do that, but isn't that what these little plastic clips are supposed to prevent...?

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=961454;image)

Maybe that's what they're talking about with the Creality branded aluminum extruders; the funny little brass fitting on the end of my list there came with my new one, and some of the listings I'm seeing now say it's somehow an "improved" fitting. I'm still dubious, of course...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=961450;image)

My life would be a lot simpler if I could just order the real Creality extruder drive kit and complete hotend with roller plate that are "In Stock" on Amazon. I'd do it too, to get the Fang on there without all this headache. |O

mnem
 |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on April 02, 2020, 03:35:40 am
Okay... if you do the hotend side correctly, you tighten the fitting down after inserting the tube so the tube bottoms out and jams the coupling and it can't do that. Extruder drive end you can't do that, but isn't that what these little plastic clips are supposed to prevent...?

The Hotend won’t be a problem right, but the extruder end will. The clips don’t prevent it after things start wearing in and get loose. So the clamp I linked to on Thingyverse does stop it on the extruder end. Mine been clamped for months and now the tube stays put.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 02, 2020, 04:14:54 am
Moving this here so we're not boring people in the TEA thread sheepless with our 3DP nit-pickery:



Okay... dumb question, for anyone who knows about 3DP. Which of these fittings for the Bowden tube are supposed to be "the good ones" and which the "crap ones" ? They ALL look like cheap China-direct pneumatic fittings to me... :-//

mnem
 :o

Look inside the barrel is the first place to go. The bad ones lack grip points which is why they start to allow the tube to move in and out over time under extrusion pressure. The early Ender ones were only two points from memory. Other than that assuming you got fittings with your new Capricorn then trust them in particular if they were in a Capricorn Baggy.

You mean the number of fingers in the grip ring? I'll look into that. Thanks.  :-+

I would've gotten the full Cap kit with fittings if they had it; only had the tubing in the Cap baggie. Pretty sure it's real Cap XS tubing; you can feel the slickery on the outside and the ID is 1.9mm as opposed to 2.05ish for that in the CReality kit. Difference is very visible too.

mnem
 :-\
Hmm... big difference between these three examples:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=961504;image)

First is the one that came on the hotend in the CReality CR-10 Service Kit. Note the 5 little fingers with lots of empty space between. Spring "feel" is pretty wishy-washy too.   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=961508;image)   

Second is one that came on my Dual-Drive extruder kit; notice the 10 fingers spaced pretty tightly, and more excursion for deeper "bite". The ones that came on my Diggro printer were the same as this one, only black ring instead of white. Spring feel is much firmer, with a noticeable "detent" as the fingers are disengaged, even on the used ones removed from my printer.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=961512;image)

This is the funny little brass one (last one on the right in previous list) from my single-drive CNC extruder. An interesting take; there are only 4 fingers, but they look precision-formed to create a flat plane with no gaps once they "bite" into the tubing. Spring feel is a bit wishy-washy tho, and no "detent" action.


mnem
hmmm...   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=938592;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 02, 2020, 05:27:18 am
Yep those things  :) I would go with the more bite points as you have them. I am not is the shack today to check for you. - LIFE  :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on April 02, 2020, 11:34:26 am
Maybe that's what they're talking about with the Creality branded aluminum extruders; the funny little brass fitting on the end of my list there came with my new one, and some of the listings I'm seeing now say it's somehow an "improved" fitting. I'm still dubious, of course...

Experiment with several - they aren't a big deal to swap as you know. The thing is, you have metal gripping a softer material. If it was just a connection that stayed in place without pushing and pulling it would be OK. But repeated extrusion, retraction, extrusion, retraction ... makes the metal fingers dig in and pull back over and over. Mine used to look like a puppy had been chewing on the area where the fingers dug in, after a while.

If none of the fittings stop the movement of the tube then just print the clamp. It's a fix that you keep in your back pocket until needed.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 02, 2020, 09:53:26 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=960740;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=961984;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=961988;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=960176;image)   

Yup... gonna look into it as soon as the new silver extruder shows up. Meanwhile, gonna muddle through with stock parts plus the E3 hotend that just came. I WAS just going to put it all back together with EVERYTHING stock and see if I could make it print like when it was new again... but I have plenty to keep me busy in the meanwhile.  >:D

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 02, 2020, 10:12:24 pm
[RANDOM MODE]

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=961996;image)

https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/fplla8/just_finished_painting_this_tarrasque_isolation/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/fplla8/just_finished_painting_this_tarrasque_isolation/)

[/RANDOM MODE]


mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 03, 2020, 03:12:00 am
50m of Ender Rails or One Lasers worth  ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on April 03, 2020, 03:18:31 am
Aw c'mon, if you're going to the effort of changing the extruder, why put a crappy one like that on? At least use a cheap Titan clone..
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 03, 2020, 04:48:36 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=961454;image)   Same reason I haven't put my dual-drive extruder on yet. Not ready to jump into re-cal-ing the e-steps and the requisite recompiling of the firmware. YET. My Kung-Fu is totes weak-sauce. :P The CReality CNC single drive extruder is pretty well-regarded, for its type. Agreed the brass drive pinion is prone to wear, but it's done that way on purpose as it is a consumable supply.

I just wanna get it back to printing as well as it did when I got it for now; putting everything the same as when I first assembled it, aside from the cogged idlers I just got for X & Y. When the E3 Extruder plate gets here, I'll build all the new stuff on it and plop it in. :-+

mnem
*knocks self unconscious with a printer mallet*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on April 03, 2020, 11:34:33 am
Not ready to jump into re-cal-ing the e-steps and the requisite recompiling of the firmware. YET. My Kung-Fu is totes weak-sauce.

You don't need to compile the firmware to change the E steps. You CAN set them that way, but you can also just set up a command in your start G code in your slicer like this -

M92 E97.95 ; ***SET NEW E STEP

That will put it in every G code file you make in your slicer automatically.

If you want to set it in the configuration.h file and compile it, you'd set it here -

/**
 * Default Axis Steps Per Unit (steps/mm)
 * Override with M92
 *                                      X, Y, Z, E0 [, E1[, E2...]]
 */

#define DEFAULT_AXIS_STEPS_PER_UNIT   { 80, 80, 400, 97.95 }

and you calculate the new value for these settings like this -

100 mm         
-------------- * current E steps  =  new E steps
actual mm

(See tutorials on YT)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 03, 2020, 06:47:48 pm
(See tutorials on YT)

 :o

mnem
*twitch... twitch... twitcha-twitch...*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on April 03, 2020, 07:12:11 pm
(See tutorials on YT)

 :o

mnem
*twitch... twitch... twitcha-twitch...*

What the matter - don't you like to learn things on your own?  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on April 03, 2020, 07:15:27 pm
(See tutorials on YT)

 :o

mnem
*twitch... twitch... twitcha-twitch...*

What the matter - don't you like to learn things on your own?  :-DD

Perhaps he's like me and has an almost pathological hatred of 15 minute videos to explain single-paragraph concepts.. :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on April 03, 2020, 07:15:40 pm
(See tutorials on YT)

 :o

mnem
*twitch... twitch... twitcha-twitch...*

What the matter - don't you like to learn things on your own?  :-DD
What does learning have to do with youtube tutorials?  As far as I can see, YT tutorials are twitch-inducing cringefests rather than a learning opportunity (unless you want to learn the myriad ways humans can do things wrong or just plain stupid).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 04, 2020, 01:55:47 am
It's more the ocean of shite one has to paddle through to find that one good learning wave; and like all good things, it ends all too soon and drops you back into the sewage seas.


mnem
So... just like the rest of the internet, then...?


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on April 04, 2020, 02:17:59 am
What does learning have to do with youtube tutorials?  As far as I can see, YT tutorials are twitch-inducing cringefests rather than a learning opportunity (unless you want to learn the myriad ways humans can do things wrong or just plain stupid).

You just made a basic sweeping generalization fallacy. Shame on you. There are lots of good YT tutorials.

Now do you want to turn this thread into a debate over YT or get back to the topic?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 04, 2020, 04:13:25 am
You’re right, of course. It’s the combination of that long paddle through shite and trying to cudgel this old mind to do Kung-Fu that make me want run screaming into the wilderness... :-DD

mnem
 :scared:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on April 04, 2020, 01:34:18 pm
You just made a basic sweeping generalization fallacy. Shame on you. There are lots of good YT tutorials.
Well, shame on me, but I honestly haven't seen any good YT tutorials, on any topic.

The good ones I do see are experiments, logs (this is how I did it, and how it turned out; and what I would do differently now), discussions and talks, reports, reviews, lectures/sessions and presentations.

The good tutorials I know of are written (with lots of pictures, or even better, very short video clips), follow a structure similar to a tree trunk, with a short branches (as links to in-depth material, and explaining why the main trunk/branch was chosen for the tutorial).  The rate of progress is dictated by the reader, and not the presenter.  Typically, the reader is expected to read the tutorial once over to get an overall picture and understand the structure of the tutorial, then re-read it at their own pace, jumping within the tutorial and background material as they see fit.  It is very difficult to do the same with video because of the forced linearity of video; and almost impossible to do it properly in Youtube, where jumping to specific moments within the movie is basically up to the user dragging the progress bar to a specific point.

Now do you want to turn this thread into a debate over YT or get back to the topic?
What, and leave your unfounded (and in my opinion, wholly incorrect) assertions unchallenged?  I'm sure you'd prefer that..  ::)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on April 04, 2020, 01:41:35 pm
Well, shame on me, but I honestly haven't seen any good YT tutorials, on any topic.

That doesn't prove they don't exist. Do you know who Dave Jones is? Do you know he has YT tutorial videos. And shockingly enough a few (many) are good ... So does a physicist named Leonard Susskind, but I know it's all trash right?

Quote
The good ones I do see are experiments, logs (this is how I did it, and how it turned out; and what I would do differently now), discussions and talks, reports, reviews, lectures/sessions and presentations.

You aren't looking very hard then.

Quote
The good tutorials I know of are written (with lots of pictures, or even better, very short video clips), follow a structure similar to a tree trunk, with a short branches (as links to in-depth material, and explaining why the main trunk/branch was chosen for the tutorial).  The rate of progress is dictated by the reader, and not the presenter.  Typically, the reader is expected to read the tutorial once over to get an overall picture and understand the structure of the tutorial, then re-read it at their own pace, jumping within the tutorial and background material as they see fit.  It is very difficult to do the same with video because of the forced linearity of video; and almost impossible to do it properly in Youtube, where jumping to specific moments within the movie is basically up to the user dragging the progress bar to a specific point.

Same answers as above ...

Quote
What, and leave your unfounded (and in my opinion, wholly incorrect) assertions unchallenged?  I'm sure you'd prefer that..  ::)

Well every one has an opinion just like the hole in your lower backside.

Say - can you show us you 3D printer and some of the things you've printed and some of the mods you have done to it? I'd really like to see for myself.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on April 04, 2020, 02:21:07 pm
Well, shame on me, but I honestly haven't seen any good YT tutorials, on any topic.
That doesn't prove they don't exist.
No, but asserting they do, without providing a single example, is just inane.  If you want to be like that, please go preach in a church.

Do you know who Dave Jones is? Do you know he has YT tutorial videos.
EEVblog videos are tutorials?  I always thought of them as off-the-cuff examinations/explanations/sessions, not as tutorials per se.  (Note: I'm not being snarky or anything here, I'm being genuine here.)

Some of the videos David made did feel like attempts at tutorials for me, and they really were cringe-worthy.

With regards to 3D printing, the videos I've seen that are intended for beginners fall into two rough categories: uncritical adverts, and a mix of experience log, review, and tips-and-tricks.  Haven't come across anything I'd classify as an acceptable tutorial.

Perhaps this is once again just a language issue?  Me fail English often, after all; but so do even native speakers.

I am using the wiktionary definition (https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/tutorial), i.e. "a lesson prepared so that a student can learn at their own speed" or "an interactive class taught by a tutor to students".

So does a physicist named Leonard Susskind, but I know it's all trash right?
Most of his videos I've seen are recorded lectures, and I've enjoyed a couple of his talks and discussions, too.  I can't seem to find any tutorials he's made; could you point out one to me, so I can better understand what you are referring to?

Say - can you show us you 3D printer and some of the things you've printed and some of the mods you have done to it? I'd really like to see for myself.  :popcorn:
My Anet A8 is in pieces, as I'm working on enclosing it with a metal shell and plastic sheets (polycarbonate and PMMA), so I can add activated carbon filtering.  I live in a studio apartment, and the fire alarm is too sensitive for me to use the printer without it; I can even trigger it by frying bacon in my kitchenette.  Let me know if you really need images of the parts, and my OpenSCAD design for the enclosure (using 40x20mm steel or aluminium tubing, 1.5mm or 2mm wall thickness).

As to actual prints, I don't have any.  I've worked on the software -- in particular, implementing true 3D cubic Bézier curve paths, with separate velocity control; the math of which is iterative but efficient (so not feasible on AVRs, but very feasible on ARMs for example) -- and lots more on 2D vinyl cutters driven using HPGL and Gcode.  As is typical for me, I am much more interested in the tool itself, than in what others use the tool for.  I can show you the first-generation Smoothieboard I have, to give you an idea of how long I've played with the software side.

However, I fail to understand how my complete inexperience in producing 3D prints (or even 2D vinyl decals!) is relevant to my opinion and experience in tutorials.

Have you ever taught a class at an university?  I have, I was a paid lecturer the first time over twenty years ago, myself in my twenties.  It was a department of Art Education too, with an emphasis on education, and while I don't have much formal education in education (pedagogy), I've worked with quite a few experienced professionals and discussed various ways of making the materials more available and efficient for the learners -- not just then, but regularly at my current university (my own field is computational materials physics).  Admittedly, my focus has always been adults and not children; wrt. children, I've only discussed and developed materials for teachers to use when teaching children, never worked on materials intended directly for children to use.

Perhaps that is the cause of the failure here; I just cannot reach the segment of the audience you belong to, xrunner?  ???
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on April 04, 2020, 02:23:02 pm
OK - I'm outta this thread for a good while. Good luck with your printer mnementh, I wish you luck.

But when I try to help someone, merely suggest there are decent tutorials regarding how to set up extruder steps for G Code and/or Marlin firmware on You Tube, and get pedantic arguments about daring to give such bad advice, that's my cue to get out. I got a lot of better things to do with my time (like use my own 3D printer).

Best wishes!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on April 04, 2020, 03:04:15 pm
Well, there is a big difference in saying
    (see tutorials at Youtube)
and then being annoyed when others get all :o, and saying something like
    The M92 command, used to set axis steps per unit, for Marlin-derived firmwares is well documented here (https://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/M092.html)
.

I'm just saying there is a reason why the former gets one a bit twitchy, seeing as it is akin to looking for a nice needle in a haystack filled with all sorts of rusty nails covered in feces; and why it would be nice if we'd bother to something like the latter instead: links to text documents, not to Youtube.

(And it is not that the latter is less work for readers, either; a direct link is not necessary, a link to Marlin documentation would work just as well.  (It is not easy to find it, though: they're hidden under Help > G-code > pick any one to see the index (https://marlinfw.org/docs/basics/introduction.html).)  To find a good video, you need to watch or skim several, and that takes time, and considerable network bandwidth.  I have only a 10 Mbit/s connection myself.  Even if you had included a link to a good video explaining the issue, it would take a relatively long time to watch it through.  In comparison, a link to text, where one can skip sections they are already familiar with in fractions of a second, is not only faster, but more efficient, too; especially if one can add a browser bookmark to that particular page.)

xrunner obviously has useful practical experience people like me (and perhaps mnementh, too?) could use, and do value.
The only thing I object to is telling people to go search youtube for references.

Maybe I was being snarky, and that is unnecessary; apologies for that, xrunner. 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 04, 2020, 04:28:43 pm
:o

mnem
*twitch... twitch... twitcha-twitch...*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 04, 2020, 06:01:00 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=963230;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=963226;image)   

For anyone who cares; here's where I am in my current round of fettling. I've done some cable management in the controller box to make a clear path of airflow around the stepper drivers. It's hard to see, but yes there is plenty of room for exhaust flow in the slots under that bundle of wires.  :-+

Topside, I've reassembled the OE hotend complete with new CReality Bowden tube (OE was the same stuff, but getting pretty ragged from disassembly/reassembly), installed the cogged idlers on X & Y, and installed this heavier locking 7A-rated JST VH connector in an attempt to upgrade the plug-in connector over the 3A-rated locking JST-SM connector CReality uses. It seemed like the perfect choice when I was rummaging around in my parts bin; now, not so much.
:-\

Time to drop back & punt, I think...

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on April 04, 2020, 06:14:18 pm
Is it a 12V or 24V system? If it's 24V the little SM is totally fine. For 12V.. honestly, fine too, it shouldn't be exceeding 3A for any duration.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 04, 2020, 07:08:46 pm
I have other... plans.  >:D

mnem
*tweakity-tweak* :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: EEVblog on April 05, 2020, 12:14:53 am
Now do you want to turn this thread into a debate over YT or get back to the topic?
What, and leave your unfounded (and in my opinion, wholly incorrect) assertions unchallenged?  I'm sure you'd prefer that..  ::)

xrunner, you are making this hard for yourself, just ignore trolls and do not respond to them at all under any circumstances. They rely on the human desire of trying to have the last word, you will not win.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 05, 2020, 12:32:56 am
Thanks for the wise words, Dave.  :-+

I try to live by two basic rules:

1) Don't bother anyone.
2) Don't be too easily bothered.

I judge myself at the end of the day by how well I've adhered to these two tenets.  ;)

mnem
Character is who you are when nobody's watching.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 05, 2020, 12:39:40 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=963462;image)

'lectric s'ghetti, anyone...?  :-DD

mnem
"Sometimes, to clean a mess you gotta make a mess." ~grand-dad
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 05, 2020, 02:11:25 am
You could buy a similar mess for $180 AUD or spend $200 AUD on a new one without the mess :palm:  :palm:

eBay auction: #164095873684 or in Australian 'tell him he's dreamin....'

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/aYIAAOSwDnleVHlK/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on April 05, 2020, 02:26:29 am
I gotta ask, what's all the twisted pair spaghetti for?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on April 05, 2020, 02:48:49 am
Balanced line signal transmission?   ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 07, 2020, 11:59:25 pm
When Last We Looked in on Our Intrepid TinkerDwagon...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=963462;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=965584;image)   

... he was up to his elbows in 'lectric s'ghetti. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=693504;image)   


Well... it got worse before it got better; I managed to tame the tanglemonster and get my PDB installed, but the job looked like a total booty fab. :palm: Woke up this morning and said to myself "Self... (because that's what I call myself) ...You can do better than that jank shit."

 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=965532;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=965536;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=965548;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=965580;image)

So I set about making something custom for the application instead of just ghetto-engineering a generic leftover PDB from one of my quadcopter builds. A little current protection, some stabilization caps before & after the D-Sun MP1584EN buck converter (https://www.banggood.com/MP1584EN-Ultra-small-DC-DC-Converter-Step-Down-Module-4_5V-28V-Input-3A-Output-Current-p-1320242.html), & moved the ballast resistors to the perfboard instead of floating in the air like the Flying Nun.  ::) That empty space there between the buck converter and pin header is "reserved for future upgrades". ;)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=958170;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=965552;image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=965556;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=965560;image)    (http://)   

"Ballast Resistors... for WHAT?" you say. Well, there was a reason for all that 'lectric s'ghetti and buck converter; I needed to add some circuits for... stuff.  >:D I had me some COB LEDs I wanted to install so I can see what my printer is working on, and I wanted to get a 12V rail up at the hotend so I wouldn't be locked into just 24V fans anymore. For those who were wondering... the stranded Cat5 twisted pair was just the most convenient source of suitable wire, that's all.  :-//

So, a little clear silicone sealant and my COB LED strip was mounted overhead; I stashed the wires in the frame channel under some 11mm wide strips of blister-pack plastic snapped into the v-slot on the left upright. :-+  The COB LED on the hotend (it is a single panel about 1.5mm thin harvested from a LED fog light bulb (https://www.ebay.ca/sch/i.html?_odkw=H3+COB+LED+bulb&_sop=15&_osacat=0&_from=R40&_trksid=m570.l1313&_nkw=H3+COB+fog+LED+bulb&_sacat=0) found in the street) required a little drilling to keep the wires away from the heatblock; yes the holes are chamfered both sides to prevent nicking the insulation. This is not my first rodeo. :P

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=965564;image)    (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=965568;image)   

On the hotend, I made a block of 0.100" pin header; aside from the 4x2 region dedicated to hotend power, there is a row of pins reserved for PWM signal sandwiched between a row of pins configured as a 24V(+) and another configured as a 12V(+) rail. This makes it possible to use either a 12V fan or a 24V fan just by plugging into the correct (+) rail. On the (frontmost) row opposite the 12V(+) rail is a (GND) rail; this allows any 12V accessory I may wish to plug in at the hotend as well. For now, I'm using it as-is; once I have my 'Fang printed and installed, I'll draft up and print a little enclosure for the header block to cover up the ugly wires and maybe incorporate a strain relief. :-+

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=965572;image)    (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=965576;image)

And finally, the money shots: 

LIT AF.  8)


mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: olkipukki on April 08, 2020, 09:51:35 pm
Not easy to find a place for new "gadget"...   ???

3D printer can save a day!

10 min to design and 2.5 hours - print two parts, job done  :-+

How it looks on a screen

[attach=3]

Doesn't look so shiny in reality

[attach=1]


Finally, fit nicely  8)

[attach=2]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 09, 2020, 03:56:32 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=965572;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966330;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966326;image)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGQuxNX7Ul0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TGQuxNX7Ul0)

Well, upon first actual use of the new LED lighting, I discovered that the COB LED on the hotend was just unusable. It was located ahead of the nozzle, and too pinpoint bright to serve the purpose; so I flipped it around and added a bit of diffuser plastic. Quite usable now; it illuminates what the nozzle is working on without being blinding bright.  :-+ This afternoon's project was to design and print an enclosure for the header block to hide away all the ugly exposed wiring.  :-+

mnem
 :=\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 09, 2020, 05:47:24 pm
And Now For Something Completely... Relevant.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966750;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=964800;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966698;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966702;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966706;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966710;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966714;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966778;image) <-Lookit dat strength/layer adhesion-> (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966774;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966718;image)   (0.4mm nom)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966722;image)   (1.0mm nom)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966726;image)   (1.0mm nom)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966730;image)   (38mm nom)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966734;image)   (12.0mm nom)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966738;image)   (36.0mm nom)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966742;image)   (10.0mm nom)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=966746;image)   (6.0mm nom)

A real-world 3DP application and results.

I've cluttered this thread a fair bit with my misadventures modding the eff out of this Ender 3 clone printer; while I'm waiting for all my genuine Ender 3 parts to arrive for the "quiet fans Fang mod", I figured  I'd return it to mostly stock so I could get a baseline of performance of the OEM hotend/extruder. Above is a small part I deliberately designed with small tolerances to see if it could make the part as drafted. Pretty damn good, if I do say so myself.  :-+

At this point, aside from LED lighting bling etc chronicled above, unit is stock except for these mods which actually affect performance (mostly done at assembly):

$0   - (Plus an hour or two fettling with scraps of aluminum I had on hand) Strain reliefs at back of heated bed & on hotend

$0   - (Plus an hour or less fettling with tearing down hotend and reassembling) Silicone grease/zinc oxide thermal paste on heater & thermistor cartridges
$0   - (Plus an hour or less fettling with extruder during assembly) Modding pivot on extruder lever with m3 x 30mm screw/nut from junk bin (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=951830;image)

$4   - (US$12/3 pieces) Zero-lash leadscrew nut on Z-axis

$1   - (US$4/25 pieces ) 5/16" (NOT 8mm) ball bearing in Z-coupler mod

$7    - Various nuts, screws, washers from local hardware

$30  - US$30 for decent (NOT the cheapest) Digital Calipers & Welder's Square from Princess Auto to make sure assembly is flat & square (CRITICAL fettling here)

(Figures from my First Impressions post here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2974438/#msg2974438

US$205 Printer Kit

US$42  Above

US$247 Total (or $212/printer plus tools you should have on hand anyways if you're into 3DP) :-+


mnem
blep.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 11, 2020, 06:23:28 am
Now you have that one sorted @mnementh here is another whole level of pain up  :o Three Extruders, Three Bowdens, Six Couplings and Three Hot Ends to go wrong  :-DD

Bit tough to push @Brumby to have a go given the travel restrictions but anyone in the area have some unneeded Brain Cells want to use them? eBay auction: #114181796675


[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on April 11, 2020, 08:32:59 am
Wollongong ... Yeah, that would be a bit tough to get away with at the moment.  Besides, I still haven't fired up the one I already have yet.  :-[
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 12, 2020, 12:42:35 am
Hells yeah, if it were anywhere near me I'd be all over it like a Wookiee with a welder.   :-DD   But a bit out of my traveling range fo sho.  ;) You should get it just for spares, man. :-+

mnem
"What the hell's an Aluminum Falcon...?" ~Darth Sidious
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 12, 2020, 03:22:20 pm
Now you have that one sorted @mnementh here is another whole level of pain up  :o

LOLOL... not so sure it's "sorted"; I just have it working like when it was new again. Still noisy as hell, and still not as good as xrunner's polygons.   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=94559.0;attach=960516;image)

Trying to figure out what to do to see how it's fucking up with the V6 heat block on there... maybe stick a thermistor on there to monitor the temp of the heat break (cringe) right at the base of the heat sink...?

Good idea, bad idea...?

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=938592;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on April 12, 2020, 09:42:47 pm
Looks like Ender has announced the Ender 3 V2. It has some of the common upgrades and seems to include most of the Pro model.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z_CkLn0aTVQ (https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=z_CkLn0aTVQ)

https://www.creality3dofficial.com/products/ender-3-v2-3d-printer (https://www.creality3dofficial.com/products/ender-3-v2-3d-printer)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 13, 2020, 03:29:48 pm
Interesting, but I'll hold off judgement until we can see what they actually deliver in a couple months; the pre-hype is pretty much worthless.  |O

Mostly it looks like the glass surface and silent control board (I wouldn't be surprised if it is the same LONGER clone MKS GEN V1.4 board) I already have in my clone E3 with some cheap plastic adjusters and other mostly gewgaw-type crap tacked on. People are already asking "Where are the REAL upgrades?!?" on this $290 "upgraded model" with 2-4 week shipping. :-//

They clearly dropped the ball on their "new improved UI"; it looks to me like they're just trying to sell off all those color screen/knob UI "upgrade" kits that were already obsolete before they were manufactured in this day of touch-screens like mine. :palm:

The plastic hotend cover and "50dB super-silent printing" they promise suggests they MIGHT have finally gotten rid of at least the 30mm "screamin' Mimi fan" on the hotend, but probably still one or more 40mm fans, so "meh...?" on that "upgrade" as well. 50dB is NOT what I would call silent, fer sherr. ::)

Like I said, we need to see what they actually deliver to be able to make a proper evaluation; this industry is a cesspool of hype and misinformation on its best day. ;) What I'm seeing right now is not exactly filling me with excitement at this price stratum.  :P

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=968964;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=968960;image)

mnem
moo?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 14, 2020, 07:01:04 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=970004;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=969988;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=969992;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=969996;image)   
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=970000;image)

Ender 3 bits & pieces FINALLY delivered; in the time it took Canada Post, I placed & received 3 deliveries from Amazon that weren't supposed to get here til first week of May. A bit concerned by the "UltraBase" they sent me; it doesn't have the AnyCubic logo, and to my knowledge theirs does not come with adhesive backing preapplied like this one. Can anyone here confirm one way or the other?

mnem
:wtf:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 15, 2020, 05:56:42 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=970524;image)

:-DD

mnem
Quote from: Mightnotdeletethis
7 points · 4 days ago
If you start searching Thingiverse for models now you might have a few by the time you get the printer.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 19, 2020, 03:24:51 pm
BEST USE. OF FILAMENT. EVER!!!

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=973548;image)

30 Seconds with a BIC lighter transforming leftover scrap of filament into a tool: $0.01

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=973540;image)   

2 minute fix (including making tool): $0.00

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=973544;image)

Daughter's favorite coin purse all fixed:
PRICELESS!

mnem
"DADDY FIX!!!"  ;D ~my baby grrl
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 19, 2020, 10:31:36 pm
The pieces are coming together...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=973832;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=973836;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=973828;image)
   
Spent half the morning arguing with Fusion to come up with this... it is a modification of the shell for my Header Block that incorporates a 30mm-ish tube to act as a strain relief. It goes on the side of the PetsFang modular Fan base, and screws into the boss he made for the BLTouch. :-+

Once it finishes printing, I'll trial fit it against the E3D hotend plate and the wiring, header block, etc to measure up for the cap/tubing clamp. :-+

While it prints, I'm getting a thermal baseline for my testing with alternative fans; I found in my last test (which I'll describe in an upcoming post) that switching to a quieter 40mm fan on the heat-break made it run a fair bit warmer right at the transition area, and print quality did suffer, even though I didn't have any of the clogging issues as before with the hybrid E3/V6 hotend.

Stay tuned!

mnem
*productive-ily*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 20, 2020, 04:33:51 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974282;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974278;image)   

Rev 2 now printing...

mnem
"The role of Failure in Design..."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 20, 2020, 10:30:48 pm
So I decided to do a little testing with a quieter fan... 


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974436;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=971366;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=973832;image)   

First, I modded the hotend cooler to remove the center fan guard in preparation for the new fan, then I wanted to get a baseline for the OE hotend... While looking for some sacrificial wire to to wire up my thermistor (really; what else is a VGA cable good for?  >:D), I remembered that I have a baggie full of LM35s for making custom Lixx packs with integrated thermal monitoring. As I have handy a piece of equipment that uses LM35 sensors, and will happily display 2 channels of temperature, I opted to do my first trials with that while printing Rev1 above.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=971370;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974376;image)
https://thomasannet.wixsite.com/portfolio/thermal-analysis-hotend   

I had misgivings from the outset; due to the close quarters, it was impossible to attach the sensor only to the heat-break tube like I wanted to. But everything was right at hand, so I decided to go for it. Testing while printing showed that temperature stabilized quickly at ~32-33°C and remained there for the duration of the print. Comparison against the above thermal profile image above suggests that while I was on the right track, attachment right at the base of the heat-sink did excessively moderate exactly what I was trying to measure: the temperature right in the middle of the heat-break tube, where the "transition point" of the filament from solid to semi-solid occurs and the filament becomes a semi-fluid putty. This, I feel, is the proper measure of how effective the heat-sink fan is for comparison.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974380;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974384;image)

However, I decided to move forward; I had a number of prints to do, so this was good testbed time. Also, I wanted to see just how much quieter my 4020 fan was than the OE 3010 unit. I didn't want to permanently mod the OE hotend cover for the 4020 fan, so I attached it with foam mounting tape. Seemed like a good idea at the time... but I did notice that the center hub of the fan is so large, there was only ~4mm gap between it and the opening for the air to flow through, so I attempted to ameliorate this by spacing the fan further away with 3 layers of foam mounting tape.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974388;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974392;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974396;image)   

Since I didn't have Rev2 finished in Fusion yet, I set the printer to work on a bridging test. Measured temps with the new fan setup immediately climbed to 43-44°C and stayed there, and stringing in the bridges started to manifest immediately. Otherwise the print seemed to progress normally til around 80-90 minutes progress, when I checked in to find that the fan had come loose and there was some bad layer shifting and the end of the print had broken loose. Measured temp was about 55 degrees, and layer quality was extremely blobby. I pressed the fan back on so it could continue printing, and temps quickly came back down to ~43°C. 

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974400;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974404;image)      (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974408;image)   

The next check was at print end; fan had come loose again, and temps remained around 50°C for over a minute while I took a quick pic, and didn't come back down until I reattached the fan. While the print DID complete "successfully" in that all elements of the print were rendered, bridging was quite stringy and layer quality was poor.  In retrospect, it is possible that the print breaking loose allowed the fan to snag and that's why it came loose. However, since my Ender 3 parts have arrived, I'm planning to move forward with the PetsFang upgrade here shortly; as soon as all the parts print. Since I'm not best pleased with this temp sensor, I'll be changing to the thermistor for testing while I print more parts.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974412;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974416;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974420;image)


Here we can see what I've contrived for a thermistor mount; tin-snips and a quick cut of some thin spring steel salvaged from an Epson printer yielded this little clip which I formed with chain-nose pliers to snap onto the heat-break (cringe) tube and hold the thermistor directly against it. Installation included a dab of silicone/zinc oxide thermal paste to ensure good conductivity. Final check peeping through the fan after cover installation shows it stayed right where I wanted it. :-+ Then it all went downhill...

After getting to this point, I fired up the printer to preheat and went to do a couple quick mods to Rev 1 in Fusion. This turned into over an hour, with revision going all the way back to the original 2D sketch before I was able to get something close to what I wanted... and all the while, my poor printer sitting there cooking away. :palm:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974424;image)   

Finally I had the model ready and sliced... I set the printer to work and everything turned to crap; ugly, blobbity, smeared lines of print everywhere. 3 tries before it even got a sufferable 1st layer down; heat-break (cringe) temp was around 62°C and varied from 60-70°. I could see it cool as the extrusion speed increased, but it never broke into the 50s. By 3 AM, I checked a 3rd time and saw that it had lifted horribly on one corner; I pulled the plug and went to bed.  |O

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974428;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974432;image)

This morning I awoke with a thought; that most of my problems the night before were probably due to heat soak from the extended preheat. The U30 profile recommended in Cura for this printer tends to run the hotend and the bed a bit hotter than the E3, and I suspected it just wasn't able to recover and cool down. Over my morning cuppa I resliced using the Ender 3 printer profile in Cura and set it to work. Even after a good 10 minute preheat, measured temp only came up to ~50°C, varying only +/- ~3°.

Again, I could see exactly what I was interested in: as the extruder ran faster, the temp dropped; as it ran slower (or the layer fan occasionally cycled off), temp would come up, but always a few degrees above or below 50°C. If I hadn't been so annoyed with multiple printing failures the night before, I'd have noticed that the primary experiment was a complete success!!!   

First layer went down perfectly and after a few hours I had Rev 2 in my now much-less-stressed-out little hands; next round of tests will involve several different fans on the hotend. For now I'll leave with this pic of test-fitting Header Block & Strain Relief Rev 2 to the Ender 3 Hotend & Fang.


mnem
(https://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x462/mnemennth/TinkerDwagonRevised.jpg)




Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 21, 2020, 01:54:35 am
This is turning into the Grandfathers Axe stories of 3D Printing  :-DD I am enjoying the read  :popcorn:

(https://img.memecdn.com/the-grandfathers-axe-paradox-with-a-bucket_o_7216707.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 21, 2020, 02:49:22 pm
Thanks for the feedback.  :-+

You know how it is with this sort of thing; sure I've spent a lot more $$ than if I'd just bought a Ender 3 at this point. But I'll conjecture that at least half (if not more) of what I've spent is upgrades I'd eventually do to a E3 anyways; and here I have a tinkery/learning experience I can share with others. Like life itself; it's not about the destination, but the journey. >:D

mnem
*currently sitting at a bench with bits o' 3DP scattered from hell to breakfast*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 22, 2020, 04:35:08 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=974282;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=975640;image)

Rev2 didn't fit... I failed to allow for interference with the belt tensioner.  :palm: As there isn't adequate room for material thick enough to redesign (within my skillzz level in Fusion anyways), and I don't want to rebuild my printer with the old stuff AGAIN to print a few parts, I decided to "drop back & punt" and am now doing it the old fashioned-way: saw/file/fettle a piece of aluminum into the desired form. This was my stopping point about an hour ago when I decided it was time for bangerzz, eggzz & coffeez.
:P

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=975636;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 22, 2020, 08:35:12 pm
Moving forward... For good or evil, the Creality Upgrade is complete. IT IS ONE STINKY MotherBLEEEEP!er...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=975804;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=975906;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=975808;image)

Hopefully, that will burn off; it was bad enough that my wife even noticed upstairs.  :palm: Installed Ender 3 Hotend plate & hotend, PetsFang V2, Creality Silver CNC Extruder, Capricorn Bowden tube, and my plug-in pin header for quick fan & hotend swaps.

First impressions... it runs a bit hotter. Measured temp at the transition point is running ~67°C. Varies only a +/- degree or so. However, hotend temp on the printer screen seems to overshoot a lot; it often jumps up 4-7° above setpoint and lingers there.  Trying a quick print of my Rev 0 Header block cover as it's all 1mm walls so will show me quality of layer adhesion. Next maybe a cal cube to see surface quality.


mnem
 :-/O

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 22, 2020, 11:46:03 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=975894;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=975890;image)

Tried 24V 4010 fan, Heat-break tube temp dropped to ~55°C. Cal cube print quality is pretty freakin' awesome. Temp overshoot still pretty scary; think I'm gonna dismantle the hotend and do the thermal grease thing.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 23, 2020, 12:35:07 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=975916;image)

D'OH!!! Think I found the reason for the temp overshoot; maybe the cause of the stinky operation too.  :-//  Guess my online research that indicated the CR10 plate & hotend were the same as the E3 missed a small difference... the E3 and my Longer A3 clone run on 24V.
:palm:

mnem
*TV time widda boi*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 23, 2020, 01:57:24 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=975916;image)

D'OH!!! Think I found the reason for the temp overshoot; maybe the cause of the stinky operation too.  :-//  Guess my online research that indicated the CR10 plate & hotend were the same as the E3 missed a small difference... the E3 and my Longer A3 clone run on 24V.
:palm:

mnem
*TV time widda boi*

 :-DD yep I carry both heater elements as spares  :-DD Still haven't needed to replace either but given the low cost and distance/time to get one I carry what I think might be needed.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 23, 2020, 04:12:11 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=975972;image)

Resolved. Not my first rodeo. ;)

mnem
 :=\



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 24, 2020, 03:24:15 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976382;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976362;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976366;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976370;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976390;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976378;image)

Finished refitting the hotend; modded with COB LED Worklight in perfect location. A little aluminum, a little silicone adhesive, a little blood, and the lighting is PERFECT. :-+

mnem
If you must know, I drilled my thumb. Hurtzz like a summitch. STILL.  ::)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 24, 2020, 08:36:12 pm
CReality Branded Silver Extruder: Not Your Imagination; it IS BETTER!

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976998;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976970;image)     (http://)   (http://)

https://www.amazon.ca/Official-Creality-3D-Construction-CR-10S-GRAY/dp/B081R1G4S7

A few weeks ago, I got in and sent back one of the Red CNC extruders for Creality CR10/Ender 3, citing just how disappointed I was in the quality thereof compared to one of these silver ones I'd installed on my Tevo Tornado a few months ago. A week or so later I received the replacement; a silver CNC extruder similar to the red one in general appearance, but branded with the CReality logo and having the silver pneumatic fitting, blue lock clip & adjuster cap for the spring which were glaringly missing from the red version.

Recently, I installed this kit as part of my "Bits O' Ender 3" upgrade; in the course of doing so I noticed a few other differences that are not so obvious until you have the parts in hand. these differences make the Silver CNC Extruder kit simply better, and for the dollar or two difference in price, a value so much greater that you simply should NOT put up with the cheap knockoff, even if it is supposedly being sold by a CReality-authorized vendor.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976974;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976978;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976982;image)

First and most important: The silver pneumatic fitting is the same as the one on the hotend. Why is that important?  Because on the hotend, you install the fitting so it's a couple turns loose, and push the Bowden tube in until it bottoms out. Then you tighten the fitting down so the tube bottoms out and jams the coupling up tight; this makes it so the Bowden tube can't work back & forth with the force of extrusion & retraction. There's more detail in this conversation here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2994662/#msg2994662 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2994662/#msg2994662)

All the cheap extruders use a different type of fitting that is prone to just this sort of back & forth "slop" in the Bowden tube. What good does it do to spend the money on Capricorn if the tube moves back & forth every time it extrudes/retracts? :wtf:

Well, the Silver Creality Extruder kit not only has the same fitting as the hotend, it ALSO is machined with a recess the exact diameter of the Bowden tube; together with the silver fitting (yes, it is one of the good ones discovered in the above conversation) they work the SAME as the fitting on the hotend. You thread the fitting on a couple threads loose, push in the Bowden tube until it bottoms out, then tighten the fitting so it jams up and the Bowden tube can't move. Then you pop the blue lock clip in place for insurance (or to reduce the play if you don't know how to do the above technique, which I had to discover myself by wading through endless posts on various 3DP threads), and you're good to go.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=975972;image)

There is ONE caveat to this technique: When you do this, it makes a pretty heavy groove in the Bowden tube; as a result, it is almost impossible to "Back the fitting off" the tube. You can pull it through, but the fact there are now two of this fitting opposing each other on the tube means that if you ever NEED to take a fitting off of the tube, or you accidentally move a fitting up on the tube, you're going to have to cut the tube to get one of the fittings off. :o Image above (yes, same as posted earlier in thread) should help you visualize this.

Okay; that's more than enough reason in my mind to choose this extruder for my Ender 3 (or clone); it's the only one "made for them" that actually works correctly. But there's a lot more; some of it better quality and some of it better engineering. Let's move forward.


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976986;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976990;image)         


Next: The little "adjuster cup" isn't JUST an adjuster. By having this arrangement instead of just a couple opposing screws to keep the spring captive, it is possible to fully assemble the extruder WITHOUT the spring in place. With my original extruder, and going by the instructions I've seen for the red one, when you assemble the lever, you have to install the spring and squeeze it while you install the pivot screw and screw it down. The 2 opposing screws on the inner sides of the lever make it almost impossible to put the spring in place after the lever is installed; at least not without it flying off into outer space. |O

With the Silver kit you assemble the extruder complete with lever, but leaving the spring off. Once the pivot screw is tightened down, it is EASY to just pop the adjuster cup inside the spring as seen above, and slide it in place. Then, tighten up the adjuster screw and the spring is held captive, plus you have a small amount of adjustment on the tension so you can set it for a firm grip, but not so firm it chews up the filament in normal operation. :-+

Next is quality of components:

First, the screws. Most of the cheap CNC kits manage to be so cheap by cheaping-out on the hardware. They use the cheapest possible m3 screws wherever possible. The silver kit has much better quality stainless screws, and it has the right size for each location, and uses flat-head where it should be instead of all just the cheapest possible button or cap-head screws.

Next is the CNC work. My red one came with improperly machined lever or drilled hole; whichever it was, the idler bearing did not align with the filament channel in any configuration. As it comes out of the kit, the idler bearing was too low. If you put the included lock washer under the bearing (NOT correct assembly) it was too high Same no matter which way you flip the bearing. I started to hunt up an appropriate-thickness washer to shim it up and got disgusted; that was when I decided to send it back.  :palm:

Speaking of the bearing... it was passable quality at best in the red kit. Smooth enough to work, but definitely pretty loose. The one in the silver kit was much better grade, period. Tighter and silky smooth. And the drive cog in the red kit... it was the same cheaply knurled thing that came on my Alpha-3. It chews the filament up all the time. The one in the silver kits has clean, smooth knurling, and it measures ~0.20mm larger than the Silver kit. It grips tightly, yet when you pull the filament by hand it feels smooth, like a good zipper vs a cheap one. And it leaves clean impressions in the filament instead of chewed-up ridges. :-+

All things considered, there just isn't any reason to settle for the red one; the Silver CReality-branded one simply is so much better for the few dollars more.



mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976994;image)
                      *slightly modified*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on April 24, 2020, 09:42:26 pm
Just say no to crap spur gear extruders of any brand and get something better! ;)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 24, 2020, 10:31:06 pm
Things to be aware of is that depending on your source the Red Extruders are actually a Creality product and not necessarily a knockoff or of lower than factory quality just an earlier model. 'Some' of them almost certainly are now cloned so buy from the various Creality online stores be it Evilbay, Aliexpress or Amazon.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32805027459.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.12.35d56bbcyJRN31 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32805027459.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.12.35d56bbcyJRN31)

And the 'upgraded' newer one with some improvements for a few extra $ which is a no brainer to opt for of the two now it is available.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993337712.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.13.35d56bbcgTaB9s (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993337712.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.13.35d56bbcgTaB9s)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 25, 2020, 01:51:42 am
Just say no to crap spur gear extruders of any brand and get something better! ;)


Every extruder I've looked at drives with one or two spur gears. Only difference vis a vis how it drives the actual filament is material and quality of machining. I'm not that impressed with gear-reduction drive as a concept or in how it's usually realized; it introduces its own problems, and until I get into more difficult materials, I don't NEED the additional torque. When I'm ready to get my Kung Fu on and fix the e-step/calibrate extrusion, I'll install the dual-drive model I have. for now, since all I plan to print is PLA, it's easiest to stick with the OEM Ender 3 geometry since it works great out of the box.


Things to be aware of is that depending on your source the Red Extruders are actually a Creality product and not necessarily a knockoff or of lower than factory quality just an earlier model. 'Some' of them almost certainly are now cloned so buy from the various Creality online stores be it Evilbay, Aliexpress or Amazon.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32805027459.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.12.35d56bbcyJRN31 (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32805027459.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.12.35d56bbcyJRN31)

And the 'upgraded' newer one with some improvements for a few extra $ which is a no brainer to opt for of the two now it is available.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993337712.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.13.35d56bbcgTaB9s (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993337712.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.13.35d56bbcgTaB9s)

https://www.amazon.ca/Official-Creality-3D-Construction-CR-10S-GRAY/dp/B081R1G4S7

I bought BOTH of mine from the CReality Store on Amazon. I paid about US$4 more for each of them vs AliEx; for that I got Amazon Prime service instead of AliEx "slow boat from China" service. Even the 2nd one, which was "delayed due to COVID-19", only took a week. Fair dinkum, sez I.  :-+

That is EXACTLY what I'm saying in my article... all the red ones are a cheap-ass POS in comparison to the silver one tattooed with the CReality logo. For the couple pesos difference, a no brainer... Having already gotten one on my Tornado 8 months ago, regardless of one's opinion of the breed of extruder, it was a huge step down in QUALITY. One I was NOT willing to put up with.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=977174;image)

[EDIT] The two you linked to are identical to the ones I just reviewed, so I suppose it's possible the red ones are also genuine product... if so...   

No, on second look the red one you linked to is yet a 3rd design. It has many elements in common with the Silver model, including all the missing parts and better hardware by the looks of it; but has the compression collar integrated instead of the separate pneumatic fitting. Since I bought BOTH of mine from the (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=977210;image) on Amazon...   Seriously CReality... What. The. Fuck.
   :palm:

mnem
My Kung-Fu is weak. :-[
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 25, 2020, 02:36:35 am
Hmmm... maybe this confusion is a "known issue", and CReality released the tattooed silver model so folks could easily tell they were genuine CReality product...?   :o

mnem
*fulminating at the mind again*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 25, 2020, 03:00:36 am
My memory of the Red ones first appearance was it came stock on the CR-10 Pro from earlier last year. It has then found its way onto other printers as an add on and almost certainly cloned by others. Within a few months the same thing is likely to happen to the silver one too.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 25, 2020, 03:18:37 am
My memory of the Red ones first appearance was it came stock on the CR-10 Pro from earlier last year. It has then found its way onto other printers as an add on and almost certainly cloned by others. Within a few months the same thing is likely to happen to the silver one too.
Hmmm... I have one of the CReality-branded silver ones on my Tornado, which has been in storage for 8 months; the first "genuine" CReality part I ever bought. I suppose we'll be seeing the silver clones any day now... maybe that is the reason for making a branded part.  :-//

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=938592;image) 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 25, 2020, 04:13:27 am
So my memory was a little fuzzy. The Pro came with a Bondtech based extruder. Here is Crealities how to on the Aluminium extruder. Shows the pointy CNC'd peak over where the connector fits in unlike the seemingly revised flat topped one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPyTiZ6-_jM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TPyTiZ6-_jM)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 26, 2020, 03:26:42 pm
Yeah... that video shows the cheap POS red extruder I got; no silver fitting, no blue lock clip, no "adjuster cup" on the spring, and you install the lever while compressing the spring. Bet the bearing on it doesn't align with the filament channel correctly just like mine didn't, too. So there are 3 revisions of the CNC extruder, ALL evidently from or at least designed by CReality. I guess the obvious thing to look for is the missing adjuster cup and if it has that cheap brass fitting; If so, it's the POS one I got.  ::)

Jeezus... when even a top name like CReality has 3 different flavors of bunge (including the cheap plastic one that comes on the 3DP) you have to wade through before you get to the good one, and ALL of them still in the pipeline at this time... you know you're still "hobbyist grade".
:palm:

mnem
(https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/coffee_L.gif)


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 26, 2020, 03:27:35 pm
In Other News:

I got up early this morning with my dB meter app and ran a battery of SPL testing on the various fans I bought to try; not best pleased with the results. ::)

After all this BS with upgrading the hotend so I can try quieter fans... it appears the final configuration is a net draw on noise. Well, sortof. My best, quietest setup with the clear Blue LED fan seen above operates at 46dB vs 53dB for the OEM 3010 screamer. UNTIL the 50mm layer fan kicks in; that brings it up to about 53dB. Not too bad really, I guess... except it doesn't appear I can use the 4020 fan due to inadequate airflow per thermistor testing above.

What's killing me is the 50mm centrifugal blower in place of the 4010 axial for layer cooling; the OEM 4010 is considerably quieter, and can be re-used for cooling the hotend in the PetsFang. The 50mm blower adds 7-10 dB at full speed, so up to twice the perceived volume. That brings the measured volume of all other setups with all fans running at max to 57-58 dB, or the SAME as the OEM setup with all fans running at max.  |O

That said... there IS a qualitative difference; the piercing tone of the OEM 3010 fan on the hotend makes it much more annoying than any of the combinations with the PetsFang and 50mm centrifugal blowers.

The REAL PITA here is the firmware tho... unlike any other 3DP I've owned, THIS unit keep the hotend fan on ALL THE FUCKING TIME. Any time it's powered up that hotend fan is running, no matter what you're doing. I totally need to see where in the config files I have to go look to make that only run when the hotend is active. :P


DATA : Measured Directly in front of Diggro Alpha-3 Printer; microphone level with and approx 300mm from hotend

dB  Condition          Configuration
   

37  Ambient            Measured in situ
70  Cough               Measured in situ
80  Sneeze              Measured in situ

With OEM 3010/4010 Axial Fans:

dB  Condition          Configuration 


53  IDLE                OEM 24V 3010 Axial on Hotend/4010 Axial on Layer Cooling
57  ALL FANS MAX

With PetsFang & 50mm Centrifugal Blower:

dB  Condition                  Configuration   


46  IDLE                         12V 4020 Axial on Hotend & 12V 50mm Blower on Layer Cooling
53  ALL FANS MAX

46  IDLE                         12V 4020 Axial on Hotend & 24V 50mm Blower on Layer Cooling
56  ALL FANS MAX

47  IDLE                 OEM 24V 4010 Axial on Hotend & 12V 50mm Blower on Layer Cooling
56  ALL FANS MAX

52  IDLE                    HE 24V 4010 Axial on Hotend & 12V 50mm Blower on Layer Cooling
56  ALL FANS MAX

52  IDLE                    HE 24V 4010 Axial on Hotend & 24V 50mm Blower on Layer Cooling
58  ALL FANS MAX

54  IDLE                    HE 24V 5010 Axial on Hotend & 24V 50mm Blower on Layer Cooling
58  ALL FANS MAX

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=938592;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 26, 2020, 08:22:38 pm

That said... there IS a qualitative difference; the piercing tone of the OEM 3010 fan on the hotend makes it much more annoying than any of the combinations with the PetsFang and 50mm centrifugal blowers.

The REAL PITA here is the firmware tho... unlike any other 3DP I've owned, THIS unit keep the hotend fan on ALL THE FUCKING TIME. Any time it's powered up that hotend fan is running, no matter what you're doing. I totally need to see where in the config files I have to go look to make that only run when the hotend is active. :P


mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=938592;image)

OH. FUCK. ME. This damned controller isn't a faithful MKS Gen L/RAMPS 1.4 clone; the #2 & #3 fan sockets are fucking hotwired to main power. Jeebus; what idiocy. Forget everything nice I said about this controller's touch-screen UI; the designers are fucking morons.
:palm:

mnem
 |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on April 26, 2020, 08:34:43 pm

That said... there IS a qualitative difference; the piercing tone of the OEM 3010 fan on the hotend makes it much more annoying than any of the combinations with the PetsFang and 50mm centrifugal blowers.

The REAL PITA here is the firmware tho... unlike any other 3DP I've owned, THIS unit keep the hotend fan on ALL THE FUCKING TIME. Any time it's powered up that hotend fan is running, no matter what you're doing. I totally need to see where in the config files I have to go look to make that only run when the hotend is active. :P


mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=938592;image)

OH. FUCK. ME. This damned controller isn't a faithful MKS Gen L/RAMPS 1.4 clone; the #2 & #3 fan sockets are fucking hotwired to main power. Jeebus; what idiocy. Forget everything nice I said about this controller's touch-screen UI; the designers are fucking morons.
:palm:

mnem
 |O

Well.. the MKS Gen L and the RAMPS are thoroughly different boards, and this board is very visibly different to both. Neither of them have 3 controlled fans anyway.. Doesn't look like the claimed 32-bit board, either..

Can't said I'd pattern anything off either of them, either.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 26, 2020, 10:55:00 pm
I believe MKS Gen L is supposed to be the same circuitry and pin designations as the RAMPS 1.4; just different physical layout. Both support transistor-switched outputs with PWM for at least two, if not 3 fans. I need to dig into the schematics, but I vaguely remember D7, 9 & 12 as fans, with D8 & D10 being hotbed & hotend...?

Anyways... the difference between the two is entirely layout. I knew at first glance they'd omitted stepper socket 5... guess I expected other cut corners as well. Just not ones THIS stupid.
  :palm:

mnem
Everybody needs something to believe in. I believe I'm gonna eat a chicken pot pie. ;D



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on April 26, 2020, 11:15:15 pm
I believe MKS Gen L is supposed to be the same circuitry and pin designations as the RAMPS 1.4; just different physical layout. Both support transistor-switched outputs with PWM for at least two, if not 3 fans. I need to dig into the schematics, but I vaguely remember D7, 9 & 12 as fans, with D8 & D10 being hotbed & hotend...?

Anyways... the difference between the two is entirely layout. I knew at first glance they'd omitted stepper sockets 5 & 6... guess I expected other cut corners as well. Just not ones THIS stupid.
  :palm:

They copied some of the pin assignments out of sheer laziness, but otherwise they're pretty different.. RAMPS has three generic outputs, the MKS is organised as one fan and two hotend heaters, a bed heater, and an always-on fan port.

In either case, beyond sharing the Atmega (the 32-bit is a lie, no cake), there's no reason to assume the boards are equivalent.. Probably equivalently bad, though.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 26, 2020, 11:46:31 pm
I believe MKS Gen L is supposed to be the same circuitry and pin designations as the RAMPS 1.4; just different physical layout. Both support transistor-switched outputs with PWM for at least two, if not 3 fans. I need to dig into the schematics, but I vaguely remember D7, 9 & 12 as fans, with D8 & D10 being hotbed & hotend...?

Anyways... the difference between the two is entirely layout. I knew at first glance they'd omitted stepper sockets 5 & 6... guess I expected other cut corners as well. Just not ones THIS stupid.
  :palm:

They copied some of the pin assignments out of sheer laziness, but otherwise they're pretty different.. RAMPS has three generic outputs, the MKS is organised as one fan and two hotend heaters, a bed heater, and an always-on fan port.

In either case, beyond sharing the Atmega (the 32-bit is a lie, no cake), there's no reason to assume the boards are equivalent.. Probably equivalently bad, though.

The "32-bit" part is lifted from the RAMPS Wiki, I'm sure. RAMPS (for those playing along at home) are all designed as a SHIELD; it's in the name.  ;) RAMPS 1.2 & up, IIRC, are supposed to be compatible with both 8 & 32-bit processor host boards of the related Atmega families.

Funny thing; this 3DP has a *NIX compatible 64-bit DWIN T5 processor running the touch screen; same touchscreen board as Wanhao uses on the D9 Duplicator. ::)

You're right on the output assignments; it was RAMPS 1.4.4 I was thinking of. Fuck a duck. Guess I'm going to either have to spend some real money on a more modern controller or get my hands dirty in the FW reassigning an aux pin for the hotend fan. Suppose while I'm in there I should knock together a STBY/SHUTDN circuit (MKS PWC) as well so it doesn't stay running all night...

It NEVER ends.  |O


mnem
 :-/O

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on April 28, 2020, 02:06:39 pm
Dragon soon I will fire up my (used) new Ender 5 and I will join you.

(music) and you'll never walk alooooone (music)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 30, 2020, 01:22:23 pm
I look forward to seeing more fellow addicts in here. Ever since the med incident, I've been burying myself in the softwares on my printer. First poking around from the console in PrintRun, trying to see what I can learn about its current config (blessed little; not much enabled  |O) and now I've D/Led the config files & FW for the printer and touchscreen from the Longer3D website.

Printer is a Longer LK4 Pro, which they relabeled and sell under the Diggro name, even though their company info is all over the nameplate; no idea why. :-// They do have everything available to D/L, but zero documentation other than a very basic UM. I guess I should be happy they bothered to do that...
:o

mnem
"FORE!!!"

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: exe on April 30, 2020, 01:43:46 pm
Hello, is this a 3d printer Anonymous? I have prusa i3 mk3 upgraded to mk3s. This is my second printer, and I don't have much trouble with it, or need to upgrade. It boringly works :).

Before that I had cr-10, it was moderately modded (replaced hotend, fans, glass surface, stepper motor dumpers, and small tweaks here and there). I was never able to get any good print from it, but learned a lot. Two problems were the most common: adhesion (surface was very uneven, even after replacing the mirror), and random extrusion problem after a few hours of printing. It was beyond my skills to make it working, that's why I have prusa.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 01, 2020, 03:12:50 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqb4wHA3FKI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqb4wHA3FKI)

Welcome to the nuthouse!

No idea why you couldn’t get decent prints from the CR10; that was the printer that got me back into 3DP after surviving a horror show with 2 Tevo Tarantulas. Perversely, I bought another Tevo after that; but only because everybody I asked told me it was a damned good clone of the CR10, and I had enough points on Bang’emgood to get it for $260. I was very pleasantly surprised; it was amazing out of the box and printing awesomely in less than a hour.

Cheers,

mnem
*currently trying to unscew the inscrutable conifig files of my Alpha-3*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 01, 2020, 03:15:42 am
*currently trying to unscew the inscrutable conifig files of my Alpha-3*

Marlin's bad enough before random people start messing with it, my sympathies.

My (for now) CR-10 is waiting on motivation to finish reassembling bits and trying to spew some goo. Really just needs a fan duct and some wiring cleaning..
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 01, 2020, 02:45:16 pm
*currently trying to unscew the inscrutable conifig files of my Alpha-3*

Marlin's bad enough before random people start messing with it, my sympathies.

My (for now) CR-10 is waiting on motivation to finish reassembling bits and trying to spew some goo. Really just needs a fan duct and some wiring cleaning..

Yeah, and you don't hardly get any more random than me.  ;)

I've been trying to wrap my head around just how the touchscreen works... nearest I can tell, it's really just a little tablet PC configured in "kiosk" mode with some scripting, which communicates with the mainboard via serial. The thing I don't get is why the mainboard isn't just spitting out rivers of data constantly whenever I console in while it's printing; it should be configured with debugging enabled to talk to the touchscreen. :o

mnem
 :wtf:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 02, 2020, 12:42:45 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=982672;image)

Currently arguing with myself over whether to go through the hassle of removing the whole board just to solder a jumper to bring PK7/A15 out to this unused socket so I can enable T2. The worse part is... the side that's winning is telling me to ALSO mod a SMD FET on one of the PWM pins for the Hotend fan. you know; to make it worth my time... |O

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=802302;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 04, 2020, 11:27:49 pm
Currently doing bizzackly that... only using a PN2222A added to some empty space on my existing 12V Regulator board, as that's what I have lying around. :palm:

mnem
pray for me...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 06, 2020, 12:47:17 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=984878;image)

Hardware modding done. Trace to unused Y-Min port severed and connected to unpopulated pin PK7/A15; these ports all have the same capacitor/resistor circuit as on the existing Thermistor ports, so easiest way to get a working analog input. D7 brought up to 12V regulator board with PN2222A; at hfe250, should be able to drive .6-8A in theory. Max expected is 0.35A if I ever go back to 12V fan; right now expected is 0.15A with current 24V fan.

now all I have to do is program the fucking thing...


mnem
 :scared:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on May 06, 2020, 03:35:00 am
I'll have a bucket ready for when your head explodes.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 06, 2020, 06:29:46 am
I have been a bad Printer owner it has been over a week since I used any of them  :o This is a redrawn print from another prior job.

While this isn't an Electronics project the knobs can be used or tweaked to suit other projects. Due to the size of the Fusion CAD and STL files the Zip is on my Google Drive here https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pfMaFg_Mu7rPhNbDOKgeI_0YlHUuP1pk (https://drive.google.com/open?id=1pfMaFg_Mu7rPhNbDOKgeI_0YlHUuP1pk)  ** The knurl nut is not shown in the design due to laziness  ;)

It suits any length M6 Bolt as is with this or a similar dimension knurl nut (6x8 x 8.3 OD) as is or tweak the Fusion drawing to whatever you like. eBay auction: #153787133578 Make sure you have the brass nut nice and hot (200C+) before trying to insert it and the bolt as reheating will cause meltage of the knob. You can also skip adding the Bolt then you can use them on a stud or internal bolt as a hand nut.

A bit random but the Steel Weld Nuts shown work great inside the Aluminium Track available on evilbay or Ali Express https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000228085904.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.2b8d7463CSXTab (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000228085904.html?spm=a2g0s.12269583.0.0.2b8d7463CSXTab) if you need to make a jig or fixture.

Gratuitous use of Laser cut Acrylic on this Router Template for the corners.  8)

Only 20 to go .....
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 06, 2020, 04:13:36 pm
CREALITY HEADS-UP:

You might want to get in on the CR6-SE; the KickStarter is up and has already secured $550,000 of their $100,000 goal in like 6 hours. There are still approx 150 slots left for the $319 buy-in... there were 220 slots when I logged in for mine.  :scared:

https://creality.com/cr-6-se-3d-printer-crowdfunding-on-6th-may-p00296p1.html

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit)

If they deliver half of what is promised, it's going to revolutionize "hobbyist-grade" 3DP.

Cheers,


mnem
*3DP-ily*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 06, 2020, 04:42:30 pm
If you're serious, do NOT wait. I missed the $265 bracket by like 10 minutes; by the time I got all my shit updated so I could check out, the $299 bracket was gone and only 200 slots left in the $319 bracket. :palm:

Right now 70 slots left at $319; next single-unit bracket will be $339, and folks are already buying into that. Why?  :-// Damifino.

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit


mnem
Crack... getcher 3DP crack right heeah... only US$319... >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 06, 2020, 05:04:33 pm
Oh, those hosers... they just added another 1000 1500 slots at the USD$319 bracket. Now approx 480 of 1500 2000 slots left in the bracket. ::) They're now at $620,727 $796,255 pledged of $100,026 goal. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=916064;image)

Still... glad I got in when I did.
  ;)

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=772380;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 06, 2020, 07:52:38 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NyTG8YCIPc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2NyTG8YCIPc)

Watching the video... noticed how she edited out the part where she almost ripped the wires out of the hotend connector. One frame she had the wires routed over the top extrusion (approx 6:10) and was about to start the Auto-Level process (which would bring the hotend down to the bed); next frame they were routed correctly UNDER the top extrusion. D'OH!!! :-DD

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 07, 2020, 02:34:42 am
Of course you were watching the 'wires' and your extrusion :-DD Naomi is a good chick but in this case I will be waiting until version II as Creality does have a little form for releasing Beta models  ;)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 07, 2020, 04:10:28 am
Naaahhh.... mine are almost as big as hers. And perkier than my wife's; she told me so. :-DD

In all honesty; I really don't mind being a beta tester on this one. This ticks a bunch of boxes for me, and the build (unlike the Diggro) appears to be exactly as easy as the Tevo Tornado was. It looks like they've gone up to a 40mm (maybe even 50mm) heat-break fan, so should be much quieter. The only thing I'm really concerned about is their "leveling-free" bed mechanism; but looking at it, pretty obvious it will not be a huge assache to mod with springs & thumbwheels to manually level the bed.


mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 07, 2020, 04:14:13 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=984878;image)   now all I have to do is program the fucking thing...

mnem
 :scared:
I'll have a bucket ready for when your head explodes.

As always, the Devil is in the details; The part I thought was going to be a tedious nightmare of testing & troubleshooting (the PN2222A AutoFan mod) worked perfectly right off the bat, and the part that I first thought would be easy (adding a 3rd thermistor on a board based on the MKS Gen L, which comes with 3 thermistor pins) has turned out to be the assache. ::)

Most of it really wasn't that painful; I copied backups of the OE firmware & flash ROM using AVRDUde, then downloaded the FW as a packet of Arduino files from the Longer3D website. An afternoon watching snippets of vids and going back & forth on the Marlin website as I read and familiarized myself with the config.h & Config_adv.h files, and the PN2222A AutoFan mod worked perfectly first upload!

The real headache came with the 2nd temp sensor (on the transition region of the heat break); they built in too much safety and I couldn't enable it as an unused hotend thermistor like I planned.  |O Eventually I figured out how to enable and configure the A15 pin as a "Chamber Temp" pin and got it working, the temps all even show up automagically in the PrintRun dashboard!

But, I misinterpreted how the existing resistor circuit on port I "repurposed" on the MB works, so the values on the new thermistor are all out to lunch. Tomorrow I'll have to recreate a third iteration of the resistor divider from the RAMPS 1.4/MKS Gen L schematic, and then the values should be correct.
:-+

mnem
*toddling off to ded* :=\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tautech on May 07, 2020, 04:46:19 am
Naaahhh.... mine are almost as big as hers. And perkier than my wife's; she told me so. :-DD

In all honesty; I really don't mind being a beta tester on this one. This ticks a bunch of boxes for me, and the build (unlike the Diggro) appears to be exactly as easy as the Tevo Tornado was. It looks like they've gone up to a 40mm (maybe even 50mm) heat-break fan, so should be much quieter. The only thing I'm really concerned about is their "leveling-free" bed mechanism; but looking at it, pretty obvious it will not be a huge assache to mod with springs & thumbwheels to manually level the bed.


mnem
 :-/O
And what if the bed is no longer flat and true ?
Defpom added a leveller to his Ender 3 and it apparently fixed issues he was having.
https://youtu.be/l0kCD02BzzY
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 07, 2020, 02:11:34 pm
It is NOT exactly "leveling-free", except that the user should never have to touch a leveling knob again. It is "Auto-Leveling" with a 16-point matrix built-in. That's more than enough to compensate for even the cheap-ass plastic-coated print surfaces the E3 base model comes with... but this one doesn't have THAT either; it comes with a quick-change clone UltraBase carborundum glass build plate too. And 235 x 235 x 250 build volume vs the usual 220 x 220 x 250. And 32-bit mainboard... and Trinamic drivers... and the list goes on...

If the printbed is wavy like scram gravy, the simple solution will be to just buy a better plate off Ultrabase.
;D

mnem
THIS is what I was waiting for. >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 07, 2020, 02:46:16 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=984878;image)   now all I have to do is program the fucking thing...

mnem
 :scared:
I'll have a bucket ready for when your head explodes.

As always, the Devil is in the details; The part I thought was going to be a tedious nightmare of testing & troubleshooting (the PN2222A AutoFan mod) worked perfectly right off the bat, and the part that I first thought would be easy (adding a 3rd thermistor on a board based on the MKS Gen L, which comes with 3 thermistor pins) has turned out to be the assache. ::)

Most of it really wasn't that painful; I copied backups of the OE firmware & flash ROM using AVRDUde, then downloaded the FW as a packet of Arduino files from the Longer3D website. An afternoon watching snippets of vids and going back & forth on the Marlin website as I read and familiarized myself with the config.h & Config_adv.h files, and the PN2222A AutoFan mod worked perfectly first upload!

The real headache came with the 2nd temp sensor (on the transition region of the heat break); they built in too much safety and I couldn't enable it as an unused hotend thermistor like I planned.  |O Eventually I figured out how to enable and configure the A15 pin as a "Chamber Temp" pin and got it working, the temps all even show up automagically in the PrintRun dashboard!

But, I misinterpreted how the existing resistor circuit on port I "repurposed" on the MB works, so the values on the new thermistor are all out to lunch. Tomorrow I'll have to recreate a third iteration of the resistor divider from the RAMPS 1.4/MKS Gen L schematic, and then the values should be correct.
:-+

mnem
*toddling off to ded* :=\
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=985916;image)

Amazing what a decent night's sleep will do for you. After looking again over my morning cuppa, I realized the circuit was right after all, but I didn't take into account the interaction of R45/R46 on their respective thermistor circuits. Repopulated the pads in the Y-MAX circuit with correct 100Ω/4K7Ω/10uF SMDs, and Marlin loves me now. :-+

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=892072;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 07, 2020, 05:22:17 pm
 :rant:

FUCKING. FUSION.

Why the FUCK is it so gawddamn HARD to add text to an object? Why the FUCK does Fusion automagically HIDE SHIT all the fucking time?

This is supposed to be software to HELP me create... I should be able to just select a fucking surface and add text to it, for FUCK's sake.  :palm:

Instead, it just  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image)  every time I try to do what other people show me in a dozen different videos. I should NOT have to fucking outwit the gawddamn software that's supposed to be HELPING me.
|O

/ :rant:

mnem
*toddles off to put ice on my aching balls*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 07, 2020, 06:41:03 pm
:rant:

FUCKING. FUSION.

Why the FUCK is it so gawddamn HARD to add text to an object? Why the FUCK does Fusion automagically HIDE SHIT all the fucking time?

This is supposed to be software to HELP me create... I should be able to just select a fucking surface and add text to it, for FUCK's sake.  :palm:

Instead, it just  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image)  every time I try to do what other people show me in a dozen different videos. I should NOT have to fucking outwit the gawddamn software that's supposed to be HELPING me.
|O

/ :rant:

mnem
*toddles off to put ice on my aching balls*
Welcome to CAD. You get to pick where it hurts, not whether it hurts.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 07, 2020, 11:07:52 pm
:rant:

FUCKING. FUSION.

Why the FUCK is it so gawddamn HARD to add text to an object? Why the FUCK does Fusion automagically HIDE SHIT all the fucking time?

This is supposed to be software to HELP me create... I should be able to just select a fucking surface and add text to it, for FUCK's sake.  :palm:

Instead, it just  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image)  every time I try to do what other people show me in a dozen different videos. I should NOT have to fucking outwit the gawddamn software that's supposed to be HELPING me.
|O

/ :rant:

mnem
*toddles off to put ice on my aching balls*
Welcome to CAD. You get to pick where it hurts, not whether it hurts.

LOL IRL... You have your moments, dude... not that many, but when you do, it's a good one.  :-+

mnem
"But wait, there's more! Act now and we'll throw in a angry wolverine at NO EXTRA CHARGE! Now how much would you pay...?"
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 07, 2020, 11:59:07 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=986210;image)

mnem
No, the irony is not lost on me. :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 08, 2020, 12:41:45 am
Text and Fusion are one of the weakest points. Want to try a real  |O try exporting parts to Laser cut and have the bits stay in place without having to add bridges before you get to the fact that the fonts are not vector format. :-- I am getting good at adding text via Inkscape  :horse: :rant:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 08, 2020, 02:36:46 am
Dude... merely from LISTENING TO YOU, my left testicle just jumped back up inside me & "undescended" out of self-preservation...  :palm:

mnem
[Time: 2:47:37 Progress: 2%][-->_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 08, 2020, 02:25:55 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNAJFksjKMg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNAJFksjKMg)

Now at 51%... thought I'd share a little video for your morning meditation. Just let your eyes follow the wibbly light and rela-a-a-ax...    ^-^

mnem
*namaste* Peace be with you, my friends.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 09, 2020, 12:00:27 pm
Another general purpose use for 3D printing for the general audience. Been doing some woodworking (making birdhouses). I was using my Black & Decker Workmate to hold parts and thought it would be nice to have some more "cleats". I found a decent model for them on Thingaverse (there were actually several models available) and printed one. Truthfully, it's better than the original, so I printed a set of four.

If you don't have a 3D printer get one!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nuno_pt on May 09, 2020, 03:13:38 pm
Need some help here, I'm too lazy to read 23 pages of this thread, this is weekend, sitting on the couch with a couple of coffee :D. I could use some of your expertise and knowledge in this matter.

I want to dive on the 3D world to print some parts that I could need for some of my hobbies, for now would be some time to time print but could move on.

What would be a good starting point for a 3D printer, Ender 3, Ender 3Pro  :-// around 250€.

I'm also considering buying a 3D scanner, for some more complex parts, still need to learn how to design in 3D software.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 09, 2020, 04:36:28 pm
Go pledge on the CReality CR6-SE, then save your lunch money for the next few weeks to make up the difference so you can pay for it when they start billing, which won't be until June 5th (this came direct from KickStarter when I pledged for mine). This thing REALLY IS 100% THE "noob" printer. Seriously.

https://creality.com/cr-6-se-3d-printer-crowdfunding-on-6th-may-p00296p1.html

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit)

If they deliver half of what is promised, it's going to revolutionize "hobbyist-grade" 3DP.

Cheers,


mnem
*3DP-ily*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 09, 2020, 04:39:05 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=987466;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=987484;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=987462;image)

Thanks, bean!  :-+

mnem
squeeee!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 09, 2020, 05:56:08 pm
Alternatively, look at a Prusa Mini. Yes, it's a little smaller, yes, it's a teensy bit more expensive.. but they're a proven manufacturer of far better machines. There is a bit of a backlog, though.

I don't believe the Creality will work out of the box half as well. They haven't made one yet which does. But I guess it does have strong current and wide voltage!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 09, 2020, 11:07:27 pm
Seriously...? Prusa Mini...?  :o

 Prusa hasn't made one that works out of the box period. Every one of them requires considerable fucking around with before you get your first passable print. True, you can get better prints out of them if you spend the time fettling... but you don't just bolt one together and start using it like I did my Tevo Tornado and my Diggro.

I just watched a video of Josef himself building the Mini, so we can assume the builder knew what he was doing. Assembly is still an unmitigated clusterfuck compared even to my Diggro, (which topend was 3 pcs extrusion and an assembled X-Axis); the Mini (like EVERY Prusa, except the ones that ship fully assembled) is definitely NOT APPROPRIATE for a first BUILD. :palm:

We all owe Josef a huge debt of gratitude for the amazing work he has done that turned personal FDM from a pie-in-the-sky dream into a tangible, doable reality... but I can only pray that one of these days he gets his dick out of his own ass and admits to himself what the rest of us already know: 8020/4020/OpenBuilds extrusion and actual fucking metal parts is the ONLY civilized way to build a 3DP. Just IMAGINE the machine he makes then.
:-\

mnem
 |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 09, 2020, 11:24:07 pm
Seriously...? Prusa Mini...?  :o

I just watched a video of Josef himself building one, so we can assume the builder knew what he was doing. Assembly is still an unmitigated clusterfuck compared even to my Diggro, (which topend was 3 pcs extrusion and an assembled X-Axis); the Mini (like EVERY Prusa, except the ones that ship fully assembled) is definitely NOT APPROPRIATE for a first BUILD. :palm:

We all owe Josef a huge debt of gratitude for the amazing work he has done that turned personal FDM from a pie-in-the-sky dream into a tangible, doable reality... but I can only pray that one of these days he gets his dick out of his own ass and admits to himself what the rest of us already know: 8020/4020/OpenBuilds extrusion and actual fucking metal parts is the ONLY civilized way to build a 3DP. Just IMAGINE the machine he makes then.
:-\

mnem
 |O

I just looked at the assembly.. You have to bolt a couple components together, connect some well marked cables, push a couple parts into each other for a spool holder, and stick some feet on. It is made of alu extrusion and some custom made plates. This is not a Mk3 kit.

For all that added effort, you get a magnetic bed with PEI (not random whatever the fuck Creality use this week), an extruder you can reasonably expect to work, a proven bed compensation system, and parts you can assume will be of reasonable quality off the bat.

Creality make some okayish printers. At best. But at this price point, why start with an okayish printer when you could get one which should be pretty decent without needing any fiddling? Because you have to tighten five more screws and it has some printed parts?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 09, 2020, 11:33:11 pm
Need some help here, I'm too lazy to read 23 pages of this thread, this is weekend, sitting on the couch with a couple of coffee :D. I could use some of your expertise and knowledge in this matter.

I want to dive on the 3D world to print some parts that I could need for some of my hobbies, for now would be some time to time print but could move on.

What would be a good starting point for a 3D printer, Ender 3, Ender 3Pro  :-// around 250€.

I'm also considering buying a 3D scanner, for some more complex parts, still need to learn how to design in 3D software.

Skip the 3D scanner unless you really want a new hobby. But watch this video posted a few hours ago.

Apart from the video below I have a preference for the Glass version of the Ender Pro over the magnetic one and adding better Bowden fittings and Capricorn tubing is well worth it too (some of the Creality Printers now come with this as standard)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jltIgHJZZ0s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jltIgHJZZ0s)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 10, 2020, 03:45:19 am
Fuck. Printed. Parts. For the kind of money a Prusa costs, they can damn well spend a few dollars on some CNC.  Or... get this... linear slides instead of the cheapest possible rods & linear bearings FFS. Held up with printed parts. :palm: The Mini is literally a fucking tinkertoy.

mnem
Just say “No, thank you”.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 10, 2020, 03:56:50 am
Fuck. Printed. Parts. For the kind of money a Prusa costs, they can damn well spend a few dollars on some CNC.  Or... get this... linear slides instead of the cheapest possible rods & linear bearings FFS. Held up with printed parts. :palm: The Mini is literally a fucking tinkertoy.

mnem
Just say “No, thank you”.

And what Creality puts out is recycled amateur designs made as cheaply as possible, beta tested on paying customers with no warning of changes. But sure, it's okay if the bowden tubes just pop out in the first week of use, there's no tensioners for the cheap POM wheels and their crunchy bearings, the bed connectors melt, and they let you run the PTFE lined hotend at 280C, because they have some metal brackets!

Sorry, but I'm not fooled by the hype machine. And no, I'm not a Prusa fanboy - they're simply reasonable machines which are properly backed, instead of a lottery ticket. I'd prefer to have something nice like a Railcore, but there's an extra digit in the price tag I can't justify.

E: And regarding your sneaky edit of the previous post:
Prusa hasn't made one that works out of the box period. Every one of them requires considerable fucking around with before you get your first passable print.

Bollocks. I've built two Mk3s (one my own, subsequently upgraded to Mk3S, another for a friend, and that's now an MMU2S). They print just fine with no fettling - about the only deviation from the instructions I made was using a few of my own tools. The MMU2S is a little experimental, I admit (and by that I mean it's a problem child since that upgrade).

You want fettling? Build the aforementioned Railcore.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 10, 2020, 06:21:38 am
Drinking bulk lots of Prusa Koolaid or telling others to consume it without question is DUMB not all things released in the last few years by Prusa have been perfect by any stretch. Likewise as I mentioned over the current Creality release I won't be buying into it in spite of being a happy owner of three of theirs.

@Monkeh your position on Creality printers not working out of the box or componentry being inferior just has not been my experience AT ALL!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Canis Dirus Leidy on May 10, 2020, 12:16:18 pm
I want to dive on the 3D world to print some parts that I could need for some of my hobbies, for now would be some time to time print but could move on.
What would be a good starting point for a 3D printer, Ender 3, Ender 3Pro  :-// around 250€.
(trollface.png) Anet A8. It will teach you what it is “стойко переносить все тяготы и лишения военной службы, не щадить своей крови и самой жизни при выполнении воинского долга”, temper your character, and then it can always be converted to CoreXY mechanic (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2786292) .

P.S. I have Anet A6. It prints out of the box (i.e. after assembly), but then the adventure remedial works began. First, a more convenient Y-belt tensioner and holder, then front and back frame braces (so that the acrylic frame don't break due to belt tension), then hotbed wiring upgrade, then new X-carriage, then new control board with quiet drivers…
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nuno_pt on May 10, 2020, 12:20:31 pm
Skip the 3D scanner unless you really want a new hobby.

 Hi @beanflying, thanks for the video, I'm watching it, need to learn and read a lot.

Can I ask why the 3D scanner would be a new hobby? I was looking at the cheap like Ciclop 3D, to copy some more complicate objects.

I've been reading also some forums dedicate to 3D in Portugal and almost all recommend the Ender 3 or 3 Pro, for a beginner relation price/quality and the large community out there. 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 10, 2020, 01:03:41 pm
Fuck. Printed. Parts. For the kind of money a Prusa costs, they can damn well spend a few dollars on some CNC.  Or... get this... linear slides instead of the cheapest possible rods & linear bearings FFS. Held up with printed parts. :palm: The Mini is literally a fucking tinkertoy.

mnem
Just say “No, thank you”.
Who cares that parts are artisanally crafted by trained monkeys from their own faeces? It's the results that count. The Prusa printers seem to shine when it comes to low hassle prints with great results for an attainable price. I don't think anyone will claim Prusa printers or the company are without their flaws, but excellent support goes a long way. Don't get me wrong, the Creality printers also seem excellent value for their money, but that last bit seems to be a relevant addition. Value for money and apples to apples comparisons are two different stories.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 10, 2020, 01:08:21 pm
Need some help here, I'm too lazy to read 23 pages of this thread, this is weekend, sitting on the couch with a couple of coffee :D. I could use some of your expertise and knowledge in this matter.

I want to dive on the 3D world to print some parts that I could need for some of my hobbies, for now would be some time to time print but could move on.

What would be a good starting point for a 3D printer, Ender 3, Ender 3Pro  :-// around 250€.

I'm also considering buying a 3D scanner, for some more complex parts, still need to learn how to design in 3D software.
At around 250€ buying an Ender 3 Pro seems to be the most sensible choice. It's a good starting point and you'll both learn lots about printing and get to usable prints without too many tears. Most people seem to be up and running without issue. Many end up doing some upgrades after getting their feet wet but at that point you should know what you're doing.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on May 10, 2020, 01:08:55 pm
Can I ask why the 3D scanner would be a new hobby?

Getting the hardware is just the thin edge of the wedge.  There is a learning curve you need to traverse in order to know what does and doesn't work.

I dipped my toe into photogrammetry and have put delving deeper into that adventure on the 'To Do' list ... a few items down from the top  ;D .
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 10, 2020, 01:11:35 pm
Skip the 3D scanner unless you really want a new hobby.

 Hi @beanflying, thanks for the video, I'm watching it, need to learn and read a lot.

Can I ask why the 3D scanner would be a new hobby? I was looking at the cheap like Ciclop 3D, to copy some more complicate objects.

I've been reading also some forums dedicate to 3D in Portugal and almost all recommend the Ender 3 or 3 Pro, for a beginner relation price/quality and the large community out there.

With the scanner as this is an Engineering forum I see little point to one as they are not that accurate, take a bunch of work to fill in the holes in models or to make them more accurate still need to be redrawn in CAD. If you want one as a toy or for more sculptural models then that is a different matter.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 10, 2020, 01:31:01 pm
Drinking bulk lots of Prusa Koolaid or telling others to consume it without question is DUMB not all things released in the last few years by Prusa have been perfect by any stretch. Likewise as I mentioned over the current Creality release I won't be buying into it in spite of being a happy owner of three of theirs.

@Monkeh your position on Creality printers not working out of the box or componentry being inferior just has not been my experience AT ALL!
I don't quite understand this "Prusa Koolaid" narrative here. Prusa printers have been receiving unequivocally favourable reviews, including from folks with a lot of hands-on experience with various printers and manufacturers. Even if some reviewers are blinded by some kind of brand loyalty it's hard to argue so many are. There almost seems to be a kind of printer envy, which baffles me as we see massive disparities between available funds and equipment quality and capabilities elsewhere on the Eevblog forum and we all seem to be fine with that. Can't we just enjoy what we do have without this shitting on each other?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 10, 2020, 01:47:31 pm
Drinking bulk lots of Prusa Koolaid or telling others to consume it without question is DUMB not all things released in the last few years by Prusa have been perfect by any stretch. Likewise as I mentioned over the current Creality release I won't be buying into it in spite of being a happy owner of three of theirs.

@Monkeh your position on Creality printers not working out of the box or componentry being inferior just has not been my experience AT ALL!
I don't quite understand this "Prusa Koolaid" narrative here. Prusa printers have been receiving unequivocally favourable reviews, including from folks with a lot of hands-on experience with various printers and manufacturers. Even if some reviewers are blinded by some kind of brand loyalty it's hard to argue so many are. There almost seems to be a kind of printer envy, which baffles me as we see massive disparities between available funds and equipment quality and capabilities elsewhere on the Eevblog forum and we all seem to be fine with that. Can't we just enjoy what we do have without this shitting on each other?

You really need to read some of the 'slightly critical' Youtube comments sections when it comes to Prusa printers. 'Some' users become rabid zealots :palm: rather than consider Prusa also has minor niggles with their products from time to time. So yes Prusa Koolaid is a thing.

Personally I can not justify the price disparity to features/perceived quality on this side of the planet over say an Ender at 30-35% of the price landed to my door. As I have done I am happy to let people know about the minor issues I have had with Creality printers and they continue to serve my well with multiple hundreds of prints on the three of them over nearly two years (I think).

Ambit Claims made by Monkeh re Quality of Creality printers simple don't stack up from my experience but as stated they are not perfect either. Heaping Shit without cause is just a smelly pile of waste.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 10, 2020, 02:02:45 pm
You really need to read some of the 'slightly critical' Youtube comments sections when it comes to Prusa printers. 'Some' users become rabid zealots :palm: rather than consider Prusa also has minor niggles with their products from time to time. So yes Prusa Koolaid is a thing.

Personally I can not justify the price disparity to features/perceived quality on this side of the planet over say an Ender at 30-35% of the price landed to my door. As I have done I am happy to let people know about the minor issues I have had with Creality printers and they continue to serve my well with multiple hundreds of prints on the three of them over nearly two years (I think).

Ambit Claims made by Monkeh re Quality of Creality printers simple don't stack up from my experience but as stated they are not perfect either. Heaping Shit without cause is just a smelly pile of waste.
Both fanboys and Youtube comment sections being steaming piles shouldn't surprise anyone. I gather few are foolish enough to take either as a rule.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 10, 2020, 02:12:01 pm
Drinking bulk lots of Prusa Koolaid or telling others to consume it without question is DUMB not all things released in the last few years by Prusa have been perfect by any stretch. Likewise as I mentioned over the current Creality release I won't be buying into it in spite of being a happy owner of three of theirs.

Where do you see me drinking the koolaid? I could point out many flaws with my Mk3. Overly packed electronics compartment, awkward extruder design (much improved with the Mk3S), highly unreliable optical filament sensor prior to the Mk3S, no instructions to lube the bearings, Y-axis bearing mounting is prone to errror... I was missing a single part from my kit, which I printed with it after assembly, and two holes (one frame, one Y mount) were slightly bunged with powder coat which would have been uncomfortable to shove a screw in - I used a tap to clean them. Oh, and the display on mine flickers during printing. I'm not sure if that's a faulty display or a cable routing issue, but it bugs me a bit.  Not exactly a perfect machine, but I'm happy with it.

They have made lots of little design errors in their parts which they've slowly improved upon, and many have made modified parts which can be dropped on. And you can just print them and fit them.

And honestly, I think the whole switch-free homing and power-loss recovery are pointless features, the combination of which leads to bad results. But sure, I'm drinking the koolaid because I happen to have had decent experiences with them, that's why I'm recommending a Mk3S kit at twice the price of a CR-6 to a new us- wait, no, I never did that..

Quote
@Monkeh your position on Creality printers not working out of the box or componentry being inferior just has not been my experience AT ALL!

It has been the experience of many others, and again, I have a CR-10 here.. Let's see.

Cheap bearings in the POM wheels (but not as cheap as some).
No tensioning arrangement on the Z axis.
Controller's a copy of the old Melzi design, complete with gigantic negative transients causing the AVR to latch up on limit switch activation (it still runs - and it's hot as a toaster). They switched to a buck converter to stop the 5V reg overheating to mask this, because they have no bloody idea what is happening.
Very cheap and unreliable encoder on the front panel which I must get around to replacing so it's actually usable. It's almost as bad as my microwave (which is a Samsung. For shame.).
Cheap no-name 12V (?! they did move to 24V finally) power supply.
Cheap and loud sleeve bearing fans everywhere.
The original hotend was, again, PTFE lined, as are current models afaik, which gives you a pretty hard temperature limit of about 230C (despite the firmware often allowing you to dial up to 280C - happy fumes and jammed hotend).
Oh yeah, and the extrusions were absolutely packed full of swarf because cleaning is effort, leave it to the customer.

The Ender 3 had issues with tube couplers, melting bed connectors (fake XT60s), it was a wild lottery as to bed surface for quite a while.. they've fixed much of this but as far as I'm concerned it's still a lottery as to what you get. At the price point, I don't think that's a horrible decision - but when people start drinking the Creality koolaid and touting the CR-6 as, and I quote, '100% THE "noob" printer', I'm afraid I have to strongly disagree and point out their track record. It may be a competent machine, right now it's a Kickstarter hype train and an early adopter disaster waiting to happen.

They have improved, and they've always been a good base and capable of competent prints with some care. I do recommend the likes of the Ender 3 and 5 (what a weird one that is, though) to people who are reasonably mechanically inclined and willing to take on a few problems, purely for budgetary reasons. The Prusa Mini is still a strong contender at its price point, although it's not exactly readily available yet (high initial demand and slow ramp in production are Prusa hallmarks, and very annoying ones at that).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 10, 2020, 04:29:35 pm
Wowzers... looks like I started a bit of a war here...

My experience with Prusa is this: Helping half a dozen other people figure out and get working their various Prusa printers; a couple of them friends, the rest when I was volunteering at a local hackspace. That hands-on experience is precisely why I CANNOT in good conscience recommend ANY Prusa product as a first printer; they have the Apple fanboi thing going on, but the objective quality of product JUST IS NOT THERE. They are STILL *NIX level of "finished"; which is to say, the product is NEVER really finished and you have to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty every. damned. time. Prusa simply is NOT ready for Prime Time.  :palm:

I knew my Diggro was going to be two things: 1) That it would at least work OUT OF THE BOX, with zero fucking around REQUIRED. (The fact I've CHOSEN to fuck around with it is my own gawddamn business.)

And B) I knew it wasn't going to print perfectly out of the box, but at least what it printed would be USABLE.

I consider myself to be a more knowledgeable than average user; I'm not into the software nuts/bolts of 3DP, but OTOH, I have over a decade of experience in designing/fabricating/deploying commercial assembly line jigs and fab stations constructed from 8040 aluminum extrusion. While I have very little intimate knowledge of the software underneath (Thank Ifni I didn't need to or I'd have lost my mind) I DO understand a LOT about making A MACHINE THAT JUST FUCKING WORKS.

Printed plastic... ANY plastic... in a manufacturing application is SHIT. LITERALLY. Under load (even that of an assembly's own weight) PLASTIC FLOWS DOWNHILL just like shit. This is such a well-proven reality that it is a machinist's/engineering axiom; just like "You Can't push a string". You CANNOT count on plastic to keep the accuracy required for ANY manufacturing process, including FDM. PERIOD.

The only reason Prusa clings to printed parts is they allow him to manufacture in-house, keeping the fab more vertically integrated. Otherwise, he'd be forced to contract out to Chinese MFRs, and THEY would take a larger chunk of "his" profit, as well as stealing his precious "IP", which in my considered opinion as an experienced machinist, machine fabricator, and tool/die maker is at this late stage of the game highly overrated.  ::)

In all honesty, I'd really rather just make a donation to Josef as thanks for his contribution to hobbyist-grade FDM, and then go buy what the fuckever I want. I already do the latter; someday I'll get around to finding his Patreon or WTF-ever and make a thank you donation to salve my aching conscience. ::)

But I REFUSE to drink the Prusa Kool-Aid. There simply is not sufficient value there to ally myself with someone who insists on holding the industry back by producing plastic machinery for manufacturing. That is a deal-breaker for me.


mnem
Happy Mother's Day y'all!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 10, 2020, 04:37:53 pm
Wowzers... looks like I started a bit of a war here...

My experience with Prusa is this: Helping half a dozen other people figure out and get working their various Prusa printers; a couple of them friends, the rest when I was volunteering at a local hackspace. That hands-on experience is precisely why I CANNOT in good conscience recommend ANY Prusa product as a first printer; they have the Apple fanboi thing going on, but the objective quality of product JUST IS NOT THERE. They are STILL *NIX level of "finished"; which is to say, the product is NEVER really finished and you have to roll up your sleeves and get your hands dirty every. damned. time. Prusa simply is NOT ready for Prime Time.  :palm:

Our experience differs. Greatly. You choose to express yours by ranting and denigrating the machines as entirely unusable even when this is provably not the case. I do wonder how many of those were actual Prusa printers and how many the numerous chinese 'i3' machines..

His 'precious IP' is open source and free for people to use. So much for that argument.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 10, 2020, 05:06:43 pm
I never said they don't work. I said they don't work out of the box, and in my real, hands-on experience, THEY DON'T. Prusa's IP includes his custom printed parts, DUH. Which he sells as part of his KITS, but yes, if somebody wanted to, they could use his STLs and print all the parts at say a hackspace to build their own Prusa. But that would NOT be a "genuine" Prusa, would it?

And in ANY event, it most DEFINITELY would NOT be a "noob" 3DP.  :palm:

Now what would be the case if those key components were made of a proper machinery-grade material like CNC aluminum? THEN would the design not STILL be his IP?

As I said; promoting plastic key components for any manufacturing machinery is, in my considered and experienced opinion, harmful to the industry. Period.


mnem
No, thank you.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 10, 2020, 05:16:24 pm
Drinking bulk lots of Prusa Koolaid or telling others to consume it without question is DUMB not all things released in the last few years by Prusa have been perfect by any stretch. Likewise as I mentioned over the current Creality release I won't be buying into it in spite of being a happy owner of three of theirs.

@Monkeh your position on Creality printers not working out of the box or componentry being inferior just has not been my experience AT ALL!
I don't quite understand this "Prusa Koolaid" narrative here. Prusa printers have been receiving unequivocally favourable reviews, including from folks with a lot of hands-on experience with various printers and manufacturers. Even if some reviewers are blinded by some kind of brand loyalty it's hard to argue so many are. There almost seems to be a kind of printer envy, which baffles me as we see massive disparities between available funds and equipment quality and capabilities elsewhere on the Eevblog forum and we all seem to be fine with that. Can't we just enjoy what we do have without this shitting on each other?

You really need to read some of the 'slightly critical' Youtube comments sections when it comes to Prusa printers. 'Some' users become rabid zealots :palm: rather than consider Prusa also has minor niggles with their products from time to time. So yes Prusa Koolaid is a thing.

Personally I can not justify the price disparity to features/perceived quality on this side of the planet over say an Ender at 30-35% of the price landed to my door. As I have done I am happy to let people know about the minor issues I have had with Creality printers and they continue to serve my well with multiple hundreds of prints on the three of them over nearly two years (I think).

Ambit Claims made by Monkeh re Quality of Creality printers simple don't stack up from my experience but as stated they are not perfect either. Heaping Shit without cause is just a smelly pile of waste.

Yeeah, Monkeh clearly has his Prusa-colored glasses on; the ones that hide all the  |O stories like mine of building Prusa 3DP.  ::)  I've helped 3 people (complete noobs) assemble and get running CREALITY 3DP; EVERY ONE OF THEM I was literally able to complete REMOTELY. Mostly done over the phone, a couple required a few minutes of FaceTime so I could see what they had assembled wrong.

THAT is why I recommend them as "THE NOOB 3DP", (I've probably sold a dozen of them personally) and it is why the E3 is literally the most popular FDM 3DP in the world; from a company that's only been around 6 freaking years.  :o The CR6-SE is their next step in that evolution; a 3DP designed with advanced features which incorporates all the mods everybody does to their E3, yet is made to be a 5-minute, "you can't fuck it up" assemble. It truly is THE "noob" 3DP, unless you want to tie yourself to some pre-built turnkey closed-supply-chain Apple-wannabe product like Ultimaker, etc for 10 times the money.

Where I see the CR6-SE potentially becoming a clusterfuck is NOT in its design or implementation, but rather becoming a victim of its own success, just as the E3 did. After the first wave of the E3, there was such a shortage of genuine E3 printers and components that CReality allowed "franchisees" to start producing using their own supply chain... with sometimes gloriously inglorious results. :palm:

The CR6-SE is a much more complex machine; it uses a custom touchscreen UI, all-new custom hotend/Heat Break, and it has an integrated bed-leveling sensor system similar in function to the BL-Touch. If there are similar shortages of these bespoke components, I can see a similar situation with franchisees substituting generic parts just to meet demand. CReality may have to really clamp down the thumbscrews to maintain QC, or simply not allow the CR6-SE to be manufactured by franchisees like they did the E3. :-//


mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 10, 2020, 05:24:54 pm
I never said they don't work. I said they don't work out of the box, and in my real, hands-on experience, THEY DON'T.

And in mine, they do. Perhaps you should broaden your experience to ones people haven't already screwed up?

Prusa's IP includes his custom printed parts, DUH.

Which, being open source and freely usable, isn't something China would steal because he had parts manufactured by a third party, because everyone already has access to them, DUH.

As I said; promoting plastic key components for any manufacturing machinery is, in my considered and experienced opinion, harmful to the industry. Period.

I don't think this industry is what you think it is. This is not manufacturing. This is a hobby.

Yeeah, Monkeh clearly has his Prusa-colored glasses on; the ones that hide all the  |O stories like mine of building Prusa 3DP.

Yes, I'm just totally blind to every problem because I happen to have had good success with their products. That's right. I can't find a single flaw, that's why I mentioned some. I'll even admit to having had to redo a few steps in kit assembly because I didn't read the instructions properly - clearly, they're defective..  Meanwhile, you just have vague mentions of 'fettling' (what, you've never had a Creality product with loose belts or wheels? I've seen loads right out of the box, is that not fettling? Is it to be ignored because it's not a Prusa?).

Would you care to acknowledge all the flaws I just pointed out in Creality products now, or are your Creality-coloured glasses glued to your face?

Allow me to reiterate: I am not saying Creality make entirely bad printers, I do in fact recommend them over Prusa in many cases because of the low cost and complexity (building a Mk3 kit is fairly intimidating to many, and the pre-built ones are expensive). I just think at the price point the Prusa Mini has to be very seriously considered alongside the CR-6 which isn't even avaialble yet (I acknowledge the Mini is not exactly sat on shelves in stores..) because it does have advantages which you are apparently blind to because OH NO SOME PLASTIC BITS!!!

Have you considered extracting your dick from your own arse as you suggested Prusa do?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 10, 2020, 05:56:27 pm
Jeebus... okay, you won't do the thinking for yourself, so I guess I'll have to prechew it and spoon-fed it to you, one reason at a time. :palm:

You said Prusa has unequivocally favorable reviews. Patently untrue. (Sorry; that was Scram) You keep claiming superior quality, which is directly contrary to my hands-on experience, and which is belied by his insistence upon using an inferior material for key load-bearing components. This despite the availability of cheap, high-quality aluminum CNC manufacturing which would exponentially increase the reliability while decrease the necessary fettling and periodic readjustment/realignment necessary due to that choice of materials. 

Now what would be the case if those key components were made of a proper machinery-grade material like CNC aluminum? THEN would the design not STILL be his IP? Then would not the potential theft of that IP be an obvious motive for sticking with material he can manufacture in-house?

You say "it's a hobby"... but the rest of the market has grown up and moved forward; most of the rest of the industry has embraced aluminum extrusion for its inherent ability to easily build straight & square with little to no hassle. Why is it so hard to accept that plastic load-bearing parts simply are not acceptable anymore?

And finally... I too stated that I knew my Diggro was not going to print perfectly out of the box. I'm NOT a noob; I accepted the need to do a little tinkering. This is a choice I made with my Tarantulas (BIG |O), my Tornado (biggest pleasant surprise since I got into the hobby), and my Diggro Alpha-3 (second biggest pleasant surprise) which I bought because it was a passable E3 clone, but about $80 less than any E3 available with Amazon Prime. Plus it came with a number of the upgrades we all do to an E3 plus a cool touch-screen.

This is why I've long recommended the much simpler build of an E3, which will literally be printing usable stuff while you're still reading the instructions on the Prusa. :o And now, for a few more $$, I recommend the CR6-SE which is designed from the ground up to be a "noob-friendly" 3DP. After looking into it extensively, it is the FIRST 3DP I've seen which has enough next-level stuff built-in that I am personally willing to pay for "the name brand".

smeesh... the Prusa simply is NOT a good choice for a noob build. I have no idea why you, a person who clearly has a good handle on the complexities of building a 3DP, cannot admit to this. 
:palm:

mnem
 :horse:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 10, 2020, 06:29:54 pm
You said Prusa has unequivocally favorable reviews. Patently untrue.

Quote me. I've never said that.

As for the rest of your post: We have different views. You're clearly unwilling or incapable of discussing the subject rationally. End of attempt at discourse.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 10, 2020, 07:13:23 pm
Sorry; that was Scram. Corrected. The balance of my points remain true, IMO. I feel you are similarly unwilling to discuss rationally; enjoy that POV.

mnem
 :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 10, 2020, 07:51:20 pm
What model or models Prusa did you help people with, mnem?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 11, 2020, 01:17:49 am
Drinking bulk lots of Prusa Koolaid or telling others to consume it without question is DUMB not all things released in the last few years by Prusa have been perfect by any stretch. Likewise as I mentioned over the current Creality release I won't be buying into it in spite of being a happy owner of three of theirs.

Where do you see me drinking the koolaid? I could point out many flaws with my Mk3. Overly packed electronics compartment, awkward extruder design (much improved with the Mk3S), highly unreliable optical filament sensor prior to the Mk3S, no instructions to lube the bearings, Y-axis bearing mounting is prone to errror... I was missing a single part from my kit, which I printed with it after assembly, and two holes (one frame, one Y mount) were slightly bunged with powder coat which would have been uncomfortable to shove a screw in - I used a tap to clean them. Oh, and the display on mine flickers during printing. I'm not sure if that's a faulty display or a cable routing issue, but it bugs me a bit.  Not exactly a perfect machine, but I'm happy with it.

They have made lots of little design errors in their parts which they've slowly improved upon, and many have made modified parts which can be dropped on. And you can just print them and fit them.

And honestly, I think the whole switch-free homing and power-loss recovery are pointless features, the combination of which leads to bad results. But sure, I'm drinking the koolaid because I happen to have had decent experiences with them, that's why I'm recommending a Mk3S kit at twice the price of a CR-6 to a new us- wait, no, I never did that..

Quote
@Monkeh your position on Creality printers not working out of the box or componentry being inferior just has not been my experience AT ALL!

It has been the experience of many others, and again, I have a CR-10 here.. Let's see.

Cheap bearings in the POM wheels (but not as cheap as some).
No tensioning arrangement on the Z axis.
Controller's a copy of the old Melzi design, complete with gigantic negative transients causing the AVR to latch up on limit switch activation (it still runs - and it's hot as a toaster). They switched to a buck converter to stop the 5V reg overheating to mask this, because they have no bloody idea what is happening.
Very cheap and unreliable encoder on the front panel which I must get around to replacing so it's actually usable. It's almost as bad as my microwave (which is a Samsung. For shame.).
Cheap no-name 12V (?! they did move to 24V finally) power supply.
Cheap and loud sleeve bearing fans everywhere.
The original hotend was, again, PTFE lined, as are current models afaik, which gives you a pretty hard temperature limit of about 230C (despite the firmware often allowing you to dial up to 280C - happy fumes and jammed hotend).
Oh yeah, and the extrusions were absolutely packed full of swarf because cleaning is effort, leave it to the customer.

The Ender 3 had issues with tube couplers, melting bed connectors (fake XT60s), it was a wild lottery as to bed surface for quite a while.. they've fixed much of this but as far as I'm concerned it's still a lottery as to what you get. At the price point, I don't think that's a horrible decision - but when people start drinking the Creality koolaid and touting the CR-6 as, and I quote, '100% THE "noob" printer', I'm afraid I have to strongly disagree and point out their track record. It may be a competent machine, right now it's a Kickstarter hype train and an early adopter disaster waiting to happen.

They have improved, and they've always been a good base and capable of competent prints with some care. I do recommend the likes of the Ender 3 and 5 (what a weird one that is, though) to people who are reasonably mechanically inclined and willing to take on a few problems, purely for budgetary reasons. The Prusa Mini is still a strong contender at its price point, although it's not exactly readily available yet (high initial demand and slow ramp in production are Prusa hallmarks, and very annoying ones at that).

Thank you for FINALLY providing some balance. I did not say you had drunk the Koolaid at all I advised against it for all.

You made a COMPANY WIDE Critique on Creality in it's entirety and that is what was at issue.

Quote
And what Creality puts out is recycled amateur designs made as cheaply as possible, beta tested on paying customers with no warning of changes. But sure, it's okay if the bowden tubes just pop out in the first week of use, there's no tensioners for the cheap POM wheels and their crunchy bearings, the bed connectors melt, and they let you run the PTFE lined hotend at 280C, because they have some metal brackets!

At best your statement I was reffering to was overreaching or at worst grossly misleading in particular for others looking for a first printer.

Big deal the firmware allows 280C as stock that is not a failure if you used that sort of thinking then you can also drive the head into the bed if it is not wound down enough. Like any bit of CNC kit I own the operator needs to know the limits! Anyone who thinks any 3D printer is idiot proof doesn't have a clue as to the powers of idiots to screw something up!

The Bowden issue is well known and long discussed and the fixes are also known and you will see as I mentioned Creality is moving to shipping printers with Capricorn.

I am yet to find a Crunchy bearing or need to replace a wheel on any of mine. I am sure if over tightened (badly set) the bearings and wheels may suffer but this is not and has never been an issue for mine. This is the same as I had a Ford whose Clutch Failed therefore all Fords have sh1T clutches.

As to your more reasonable reply above. Follow the link https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000510201086.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.2.3ac52e27B1V7Ks (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000510201086.html?spm=2114.12010612.8148356.2.3ac52e27B1V7Ks)

Capricorn tubing/better fittings and locks, Touch Screen and also Belt tensioner which is also fitted to the new Ender V2.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 11, 2020, 01:45:38 am
You made a COMPANY WIDE Critique on Creality in it's entirety and that is what was at issue.

Quote
And what Creality puts out is recycled amateur designs made as cheaply as possible, beta tested on paying customers with no warning of changes. But sure, it's okay if the bowden tubes just pop out in the first week of use, there's no tensioners for the cheap POM wheels and their crunchy bearings, the bed connectors melt, and they let you run the PTFE lined hotend at 280C, because they have some metal brackets!

At best your statement I was reffering to was overreaching or at worst grossly misleading in particular for others looking for a first printer.

Admittedly true. It was in the same veign as the reaction to my Prusa suggestion - I shouldn't drop down to that level. I still have little faith in Creality behaving better in this regard, though.

Quote
Big deal the firmware allows 280C as stock that is not a failure

It is when it both allows you to needlessly damage the printer and gives the impression it's capable of that temperature. There's no good reason to configure it that way. To be accurate I just pulled the latest Ender 3 source and it's 260 - I can't readily verify if that's what the latest binary has because they do not ship them together and the source is an older version than the binary (GPL strike, good times). Still too hot and nothing in the marketing material at least clarifies what the real limit is.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 11, 2020, 01:55:29 am
You made a COMPANY WIDE Critique on Creality in it's entirety and Big deal the firmware allows 280C as stock that is not a failure

It is when it both allows you to needlessly damage the printer and gives the impression it's capable of that temperature. There's no good reason to configure it that way.

Given the relative ease of purchase of all metal hotends to retrofit I would think it a benefit as it avoids the PITA for some of needing to reconfigure the firmware.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 11, 2020, 01:57:50 am
You made a COMPANY WIDE Critique on Creality in it's entirety and Big deal the firmware allows 280C as stock that is not a failure

It is when it both allows you to needlessly damage the printer and gives the impression it's capable of that temperature. There's no good reason to configure it that way.

Given the relative ease of purchase of all metal hotends to retrofit I would think it a benefit as it avoids the PITA for some of needing to reconfigure the firmware.

If you're going to modify the printer you may as well know how to modify the firmware..

That said, they probably still don't have bootloaders, do they? Oh well, we'll see what this new 32-bit board they're banging on about looks like.. Meanwhile I have an SKR in the CR-10 (competent enough, shame about Marlin), a fixedish Creality board running the delta (Klipper - because no I'm not doing a delta with Marlin), and a Duet 2 waiting for me to give it something to do.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 11, 2020, 04:10:09 am
None of this makes a Prusa a good recommendation for a first printer. For a second or third printer, once you know enough to start fiddling around with it, sure. But a first machine needs to be dead-simple to get up and running and producing usable prints, and the Prusa  simply isn’t that.

It’s actually contrary to the whole philosophy of the thing, which is essentially a platform primarily to prove that FDM can be made to produce useful stuff (same concept as machinists were taught that “a lathe is the one tool which can replicate itself”), like another FDM printer. My experience of a few years ago gave me firsthand experience of this, and watching Josef build a Mini was all the evidence I need that it is more of the same.

You’re welcome to believe otherwise; but I still see it differently, as I’ve stated pretty clearly.

I see Prusa as the *NIX equivalent, while CReality the Windoze equivalent. And Ultimaker, et al as trying to be the Apple equivalent... or maybe iOS. And all the little cheapies like my Diggro... I guess they’re cheap Chinese Android handsets or Chrome notebooks, I dunno.    :-//


mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nuno_pt on May 11, 2020, 09:22:21 am
Since in EU we don't have any stock of 3Pro, only to be deliver for the end of May, on the trusted stores, I'll hold my horses and wait for the new 3v2 that they are start to deliver in late July in the official store of EU < https://www.creality3dshop.eu/collections/ender-series-3d-printer/products/creality3d-upgraded-ender-3-v2-3d-printer (https://www.creality3dshop.eu/collections/ender-series-3d-printer/products/creality3d-upgraded-ender-3-v2-3d-printer) > and then compare the two, to see if it will worth the difference in price.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 11, 2020, 11:45:06 am
If you're going to modify the printer you may as well know how to modify the firmware..

Agree. I've had an SKR mini E3 v 1.2 in mine for some time now. All you need do is put your build (firmware.bin) on the SD card and it installs it automatically. I put all the new releases of Marlin on it as they come out, latest is 2.0.5.3.

https://marlinfw.org/meta/download/

Among other things I've enabled Linear Advance and manual mesh bed leveling in my builds. Once you get the initial configs set up I haven't run into any issues at all with installing the latest versions. It does erase the data for the mesh bed leveling each time but that's just a matter of doing a couple-minute re-leveling not a problem, all the other settings are good to go.

There are tutorials out there for the configs and VS Code but I'm not recommending where to look at one because I got my ass chewed last time I did.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 11, 2020, 11:58:17 am
What model or models Prusa did you build or help building, mnem?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 11, 2020, 12:00:28 pm
If you're going to modify the printer you may as well know how to modify the firmware..

That said, they probably still don't have bootloaders, do they? Oh well, we'll see what this new 32-bit board they're banging on about looks like.. Meanwhile I have an SKR in the CR-10 (competent enough, shame about Marlin), a fixedish Creality board running the delta (Klipper - because no I'm not doing a delta with Marlin), and a Duet 2 waiting for me to give it something to do.
Can you say anything about the practical differences between the SKR and the Duet? I have a hard time justifying the additional cost of the Duet but I may be missing some crucial differences.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 11, 2020, 12:03:51 pm
If you're going to modify the printer you may as well know how to modify the firmware..

Agree. I've had an SKR mini E3 v 1.2 in mine for some time now. All you need do is put your build (firmware.bin) on the SD card and it installs it automatically. I put all the new releases of Marlin on it as they come out, latest is 2.0.5.3.

https://marlinfw.org/meta/download/ (https://marlinfw.org/meta/download/)

Among other things I've enabled Linear Advance and manual mesh bed leveling in my builds. Once you get the initial configs set up I haven't run into any issues at all with installing the latest versions. It does erase the data for the mesh bed leveling each time but that's just a matter of doing a couple-minute re-leveling not a problem, all the other settings are good to go.

There are tutorials out there for the configs and VS Code but I'm not recommending where to look at one because I got my ass chewed last time I did.  :-DD

With the average member of this forum playing with firmware isn't that much of an issue but for the average buyer of an Ender it is less trivial. For anyone coming along later here is a guide on how to. ** make sure you READ the Text on the video page!.

Quote
Teaching Tech
153K subscribers

The Ender 3 upgrades continue! In this guide, I show you step by step how to flash a bootloader to the Melzi board so you can upgrade your firmware. Why would you do that? The safety net of thermal runaway protection and the capacity for future mods.

There were some other guides out there but I felt they were either out of date of not concise. I hope this tutorial is easy to follow. Fortunately the bootloader flashing only needs to be done once.

*One thing I forgot to include is the need to go to 'Initialize EEPROM' in LCD menu after flashing the firmware.*

Creality have released their own firmware source, but I would recommend the TH3D Unified firmware instead, as it is based on a newer version of Marlin. You will lose power off recovery but it is only a matter of time before this is ported over now that Creality have released the source code.

A future video will cover the installation of a BLtouch, hit subscribe so you don’t miss it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIl5X2ffdyo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fIl5X2ffdyo)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jeroen3 on May 11, 2020, 12:18:11 pm
None of this makes a Prusa a good recommendation for a first printer. For a second or third printer, once you know enough to start fiddling around with it, sure. But a first machine needs to be dead-simple to get up and running and producing usable prints, and the Prusa  simply isn’t that.
The printer definitely still has flaws, even the mk3s. I know about them. I own one. But if you look at the overall deal, you're pretty much getting everything sorted out for you. The printer, no hassle with leveling or limit switches, a slicer developed for this printer, a model sharing website and a decent community.
Now, you can be all angry at prusa for not making if out of a milled aluminum slab and using cheap plastic. Tough luck, it's a reprap, and then you should also be angry at makerbot for having done exactly the same things.
For more plug&play printers you'd be going to Sindoh or something alike. But that also doubles the price.

I think part of why prusa is selling so well isn't the quality printer but the story and complementary product around it.

I would absolutely not recommend Creality or Prusa to non-tech 3d printer beginners as they may not recognize the hazards an open frame cheap printer may pose.
For example, they might start printing abs, hips or nylon. which is toxic. Or print tpu, which will undoubtedly cause a nozzle clog and make the thing catch fire.

It will still be a while before Karen from accounting will be able to buy and use a 3D printer with the same thoughtlessness as the paper printer.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 11, 2020, 12:51:05 pm
The whole material argument is a bit perplexing. The results count and those seem to speak for themselves. Most consider the Prusa print quality an industry benchmark. We could argue about printed plastics until the cows come home but it's moot at that point. All other things being equal I like a good chunk of metal but that condition is vital.

I don't think anyone will claim any FDM printer is hassle free. Even the stupidly expensive industrial models still are far from.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 11, 2020, 01:45:13 pm
If you're going to modify the printer you may as well know how to modify the firmware..

That said, they probably still don't have bootloaders, do they? Oh well, we'll see what this new 32-bit board they're banging on about looks like.. Meanwhile I have an SKR in the CR-10 (competent enough, shame about Marlin), a fixedish Creality board running the delta (Klipper - because no I'm not doing a delta with Marlin), and a Duet 2 waiting for me to give it something to do.
Can you say anything about the practical differences between the SKR and the Duet? I have a hard time justifying the additional cost of the Duet but I may be missing some crucial differences.

Built-in networking, configurable on the fly (and much easier and more flexible than the likes of Marlin), decently high current drivers if needed (although the SKR can use quieter ones).. Much greater expandability. 5 drivers on the Duet 2, expansion board offers up to 5 more, and I seem to recall there's another two sets of step/dir signals available on a header. Also readily available thermocouple or PT100 inputs which just drop on. There's also a healthy number of outputs to go with that for fans, heaters, and so forth. The Duet 3 gets 6 drivers (quite high current ones) and CAN expandability.

The newest (still beta) firmware offers conditional expressions in gcode to allow even greater flexibility.

These are high end boards capable of handling rather more complex machines than the average desktop printer. One fellow I know is running a custom-built pellet extruder with thermocouples at multiple points in the melt zone (good luck doing that with Marlin) for example. For the average printer, other than the clusterfuck that is driver modules, something like an SKR is adequate, but the firmware on the Duet is very nice to work with. There's always the Maestro, which is less painfully expensive..
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: exe on May 11, 2020, 03:03:54 pm
For example, they might start printing abs, hips or nylon. which is toxic. Or print tpu, which will undoubtedly cause a nozzle clog and make the thing catch fire.

Can you please elaborate why nylon is toxic? I understand why asa, hips and abs are toxic, they release styrene or something.

I Also don't understand about tpu, how can it catch fire?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 11, 2020, 04:48:28 pm
The whole material argument is a bit perplexing. The results count and those seem to speak for themselves. Most consider the Prusa print quality an industry benchmark. We could argue about printed plastics until the cows come home but it's moot at that point. All other things being equal I like a good chunk of metal but that condition is vital.

I don't think anyone will claim any FDM printer is hassle free. Even the stupidly expensive industrial models still are far from.

LOL... a benchmark that is entirely derived from fettling by people who know what they're doing, and made possible by the network of fanbois who will gladly spend days helping you get it working. I guess that's somehow a "value-added" proposition...?  :-//

 And NO, it IS about the materials used. In the 3DP INDUSTRY, as in industrial 3DP, they'd fucking laugh you out of the room if you showed up with anything made the way a Prusa is.  :palm:

If you're going to try and argue something so patently ridiculous on the face of it... that somehow precision machined metal is not a superior foundation in comparison to printed plastic... I can only assume that you are YET AGAIN trolling me, Scram... and I have no patience for it today
.  ::)

mnem
(https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/coffee_L.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: exe on May 11, 2020, 05:55:03 pm
This thread becomes hostile and pointless.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 11, 2020, 06:42:44 pm
None of this makes a Prusa a good recommendation for a first printer. For a second or third printer, once you know enough to start fiddling around with it, sure. But a first machine needs to be dead-simple to get up and running and producing usable prints, and the Prusa  simply isn’t that.
The printer definitely still has flaws, even the mk3s. I know about them. I own one. But if you look at the overall deal, you're pretty much getting everything sorted out for you. The printer, no hassle with leveling or limit switches, a slicer developed for this printer, a model sharing website and a decent community.
Now, you can be all angry at prusa for not making if out of a milled aluminum slab and using cheap plastic. Tough luck, it's a reprap, and then you should also be angry at makerbot for having done exactly the same things.
For more plug&play printers you'd be going to Sindoh or something alike. But that also doubles the price. I think part of why prusa is selling so well isn't the quality printer but the story and complementary product around it.

I would absolutely not recommend Creality or Prusa to non-tech 3d printer beginners as they may not recognize the hazards an open frame cheap printer may pose.
For example, they might start printing abs, hips or nylon. which is toxic. Or print tpu, which will undoubtedly cause a nozzle clog and make the thing catch fire.

It will still be a while before Karen from accounting will be able to buy and use a 3D printer with the same thoughtlessness as the paper printer.

This IS exactly right. I do NOT recommend ANY "hobbyist-grade" 3DP to "normal" people; that is just going to be an exercise in misery for that person and anyone they rope into helping them (which is probably my self-preservation kicking in; having spent decades being the "neighborhood nerd" and getting roped into everything from resurrecting dead Compaqs to making a TPI 'vette engine run in a '57 Chevy BEFORE they made a kit for dat).

And I DO hate MakerBot for the way they've marketed cheap plastic shit; same with FlashForge (I wonder how much they paid for that product placement in ST:Picard ::)) and yes, lots of others have done the same... |O

Anyways... I have learned these lessons the hard way; I STARTED with some considerable experience dealing with and building automated manufacturing equipment, so I figured I could EASILY figure out anything a mere 3DP could throw my way.  :palm:

In my arrogance, I bought the cheapest kit I thought had a decent foundation (the Tevo Tarantula); in fact I bought TWO, because I got them for $300 delivered and that just made my cheapass-dwagon gonads jangle.  :P Even after months of fettling, I never got it to work reliably due to the design's fundamental weakness; cut acrylic parts in critical locations. Eventually in disgust, I sold the one I was working on to a cohort in my hackspace for enough to take my fiancee out to dinner and swore off 3DP for good.  :phew:

The other one sat in the back of my closet for over a year; until I saw my nephew over Thanksgiving a couple years ago and he was beating his head against a Mk1 (That's the little one made of threaded rod & jamnuts, right...?) knockoff; I could see it was a really bad knockoff and horribly out of square and the poor kid just couldn't get it to stay leveled, even through a single print. As bad as my Tarantula was, it was better than that... thing. I mailed the Tarantula to him for Christmas, along with a list of replacement aluminum parts I'd discovered that make the Tarantula a workable 3DP. I explained that he had to be extra-careful with the the acrylic parts and that they would still eventually break, and when they did, he should replace them with those parts; his dad bought them as he needed them and eventually the kid got it working pretty well where I had failed.  :-+

Zip along to the height of the CR10 craze; I started hearing how it was everything my Tarantula wasn't, so against my better judgement I started shopping them. I felt they were still a little raw for the $450+ pricetag, so I looked into the popular clones... I found the Tevo *cringe* Tornado on bang-em-good, and I had enough affiliate points to burn that I was able to get it for $260 delivered. I chronicled my experiences with that printer in the TEA thread; bottom line I had it up & printing in an hour, and MOST of that was taken up with me being anal about cable management and MEASURING everything to make sure it was straight & square as I assembled. If I'd just followed the printed destructions, probably 30 minutes max to first print.

Based on THAT experience... from a clone of a CReality product, and those of helping others build their Creality & other branded 3DPrinters... THIS is what I base my evaluation of a hobbyist-grade 3DP and whether it is a suitable first-time printer. If I, someone with considerable mechanical & electrical engineering and fabrication background has a hard time getting a kit up & printing reliably, it's probably NOT a good choice to recommend it to someone else.

All that considered, the CR6-SE is the first from CReality that (at ~$360 delivered) had enough of the stuff I wanted that it was worth the "name brand" pricetag. I'm a colossally cheap bastard; almost as bad as bean.  ;) This is literally my FIRST CReality printer, and the only genuine CReality product I've ever bought is the hotend/backplate/extruder kit I got for my Diggro Alpha-3. I tend to over-analyze before I buy; if I can't SEE the value-added in a brand-name, I'm just not going to buy it.

Compared against my Diggro and my hands-on experience with both printers, the quality of the CReality product is superior in every way except the extrusion itself; The Alpha-3 frame is top-quality all the way, and so is the touchscreen, but the "bits" are still cheap CReality clones and generic Chinese parts. The CReality bearings/rollers are better, the CNC aluminum is better, even the heater cartridge and the heater block are just better quality.

I don't regret the money spent on the Diggro; it came with a lot of the stuff everybody buys after-the-fact to upgrade a E3, plus the neat touchscreen which is the same one used on the Wanhao Duplicator 9 (and, I suspect, may also be the one Creality tapped for the CR6-SE).  :-// All that plus it was a lot cheaper, and I've had a helluva lot of fun fettling with it while I'm under lockdown.
  ;D

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 11, 2020, 08:05:57 pm
If you're going to modify the printer you may as well know how to modify the firmware..

That said, they probably still don't have bootloaders, do they? Oh well, we'll see what this new 32-bit board they're banging on about looks like.. Meanwhile I have an SKR in the CR-10 (competent enough, shame about Marlin), a fixedish Creality board running the delta (Klipper - because no I'm not doing a delta with Marlin), and a Duet 2 waiting for me to give it something to do.
Can you say anything about the practical differences between the SKR and the Duet? I have a hard time justifying the additional cost of the Duet but I may be missing some crucial differences.

Built-in networking, configurable on the fly (and much easier and more flexible than the likes of Marlin), decently high current drivers if needed (although the SKR can use quieter ones).. Much greater expandability. 5 drivers on the Duet 2, expansion board offers up to 5 more, and I seem to recall there's another two sets of step/dir signals available on a header. Also readily available thermocouple or PT100 inputs which just drop on. There's also a healthy number of outputs to go with that for fans, heaters, and so forth. The Duet 3 gets 6 drivers (quite high current ones) and CAN expandability.

The newest (still beta) firmware offers conditional expressions in gcode to allow even greater flexibility.

These are high end boards capable of handling rather more complex machines than the average desktop printer. One fellow I know is running a custom-built pellet extruder with thermocouples at multiple points in the melt zone (good luck doing that with Marlin) for example. For the average printer, other than the clusterfuck that is driver modules, something like an SKR is adequate, but the firmware on the Duet is very nice to work with. There's always the Maestro, which is less painfully expensive..

That part I can agree with... having just done similar in my own experimentation with different extruder fans. All I wanted was to monitor a thermistor on the transition area of the heat-break *cringe* tube; this to try and evaluate how well or poorly the several different fans I was testing for relative noise level actually performed. Eventually I worked it around to use the predefined "Chamber Temp" loop; though I still cannot figure out why they feel it is such a sin to define a thermistor without the accompanying extruder enabled. The other way around, sure...:-// 

Maybe when I want to make more than the occasional functional part, I'll get into the software nuts/bolts enough to be able to appreciate the more powerful boards. That is actually one of the reasons I finally sold myself on the CR6-SE; the 32-bit controller they were promising at the time of launch. I wanted to see if it makes as much difference as it did with my little acro quadcopters, and I wanted to see if they make a complete dog's breakfast of it as they did the early E3 boards. :palm: Worst case, if it sux out loud I suppose it'll force me to spend the bux on a better 32-bit board and do a little "self-improvement". :-DD


mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 12, 2020, 01:35:05 am
None of this makes a Prusa a good recommendation for a first printer. For a second or third printer, once you know enough to start fiddling around with it, sure. But a first machine needs to be dead-simple to get up and running and producing usable prints, and the Prusa  simply isn’t that.
The printer definitely still has flaws, even the mk3s. I know about them. I own one. But if you look at the overall deal, you're pretty much getting everything sorted out for you. The printer, no hassle with leveling or limit switches, a slicer developed for this printer, a model sharing website and a decent community.
Now, you can be all angry at prusa for not making if out of a milled aluminum slab and using cheap plastic. Tough luck, it's a reprap, and then you should also be angry at makerbot for having done exactly the same things.
For more plug&play printers you'd be going to Sindoh or something alike. But that also doubles the price.

I think part of why prusa is selling so well isn't the quality printer but the story and complementary product around it.

I would absolutely not recommend Creality or Prusa to non-tech 3d printer beginners as they may not recognize the hazards an open frame cheap printer may pose.
For example, they might start printing abs, hips or nylon. which is toxic. Or print tpu, which will undoubtedly cause a nozzle clog and make the thing catch fire.

It will still be a while before Karen from accounting will be able to buy and use a 3D printer with the same thoughtlessness as the paper printer.

Some of your attempted reasoning/recommendations are unreasonable and smacks of I am better at it than you so you should not get one because you don't know how to :-// That is a circle of intellectual snobbery.

All CNC machinery or any tool including unpowered ones for that matter used badly are a hazard. There are plenty of  dead tradies or ones with missing body parts to attest to that and they in a lot of cases were trained, experienced and qualified.

Attempting to argue that beginners avoid an entire class of printers from Prusa on down makes zero sense at all or are you trying to suggest beginners talk to Stratasys for their first printer or spend $2k+ on their first locked infrastructure Dremel et al printer? :palm:

There is a learning curve for 3D printing depending on what the user wants to do with it and even a casual google look at some of the materials you listed would show some of the requirements to use them. Enclosures and extraction will be needed for safety/heat and in most cases even having one for PLA is an advantage.

None of this is rocket science and there is information out there on doing it properly and some of what this thread is about is easing and aiding others into it not telling they shouldn't because they haven't.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nuno_pt on May 12, 2020, 02:32:48 am
Changing a little of subject, may I ask what you guys use/advice for PC to use with the 3D soft, I've download Fusion 360 for personal use but it crash on my old laptop, so it's time to buy something for the shop, I like the mini PC's (like Hystou), they run on 12V and are small so you can put them anywhere.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 12, 2020, 02:55:00 am
Changing a little of subject, may I ask what you guys use/advice for PC to use with the 3D soft, I've download Fusion 360 for personal use but it crash on my old laptop, ...

Well, what I'm using is a Ryzen 7 1700 8 core 16 thread machine, and it has no isses at all with Fusion 360. What is the minimum requirement for Fusion 360? I'ts prolly in the docs for it but I do not know at the moment.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 12, 2020, 03:38:05 am
Changing a little of subject, may I ask what you guys use/advice for PC to use with the 3D soft, I've download Fusion 360 for personal use but it crash on my old laptop, so it's time to buy something for the shop, I like the mini PC's (like Hystou), they run on 12V and are small so you can put them anywhere.

I was running Fusion on an I3 with 8Gb or memory and it crashed/froze from time to time with more complex models. Adding a small Graphics card 'helped' a bit. So somewhere up from there would be my call. Current beast is a Ryzen 3700X 32Gb and a 5700XT so 'slightly overkill'  ;)

I had started looking at a small fanless solution to drive my CNC mill when I get it back in running order and will also run a bigger Laser from the same box. While Mach4 and RDWorks/Lightburn don't need that much grunt being able to boot up Fusion to tweak a design while at the machines would be nice so I was looking at at least an I5 (or Ryzen) 16Gb and likely a GPU of some sort rather than an onboard or APU solution.

It might be a good topic for the general computing  section?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 12, 2020, 03:52:50 am
Same rig for me, only Nvidia RTX 2080 Super, or a 4-year-old Lenovo with i5/8GB. None of my models have been that complex, tho. I did play around with some demo animated transform projects and the Lenovo gagged a few times on that bandwidth due to no NVMe.

Cura seems to run well on any old doorstop though; even my wife’s eMail-getter i3 Lenovo. :-DD


mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jeroen3 on May 12, 2020, 07:33:30 am
For example, they might start printing abs, hips or nylon. which is toxic. Or print tpu, which will undoubtedly cause a nozzle clog and make the thing catch fire.

Can you please elaborate why nylon is toxic? I understand why asa, hips and abs are toxic, they release styrene or something.

I Also don't understand about tpu, how can it catch fire?
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/acs.est.5b04983

With the wrong feedrate TPU immediately screws up your extruder. Jamming the motor.

Fusion 360 doesn't need much. It very inefficient programming due to the platforms they're running it on. You don't need a facny GPU, it doesn't use it much. Not even for renders. May want one for the dedicated graphics memory though.
Just have enough system memory and fast internet. It uses about 2 GB.
Complex designs make fusion slow on even the best systems. It's cheap after all.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: exe on May 12, 2020, 10:36:21 am
With the wrong feedrate TPU immediately screws up your extruder. Jamming the motor.

May be, how this translates into a fire hazard? Stepmotors always consume the same power regardless they are jammed or not.

As of nylon, that's sad, I hoped it's safe. Probably I'll make chamber or something. Thanks for the information.

PS didn't read long posts above, but I'll add a datapoint :). I recommended prusa to a friend of mine who had previously zero experience in 3d printing. To my surprise he managed to assemble it and immediately jumped into printing large objects, including printing multiple large objects simultaneously. He was blindly downloading complex designs, slice them and print, without, imho, too much thinking. And it worked very well (kudos to prusaslicer and predefined profiles!).

After three months he did ran into problems and was quite hopeless. It was hard to communicate with him as he, in my opinion, was in complain mode and didn't do exactly what I told him to do, nor he wanted to contact the support. After a month of troubles he finally disassembled the extruder just to find there was a piece of filament inside that stuck (I attribute this to using low-quality filament he was using, he wanted to use the cheapest one). To the best of my knowledge, the printer works fine since then. I'm not drawing any conclusions from here. Just raw data.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nuno_pt on May 12, 2020, 10:47:18 am
From what I read on the Fusion forum, they say to favor speed over cores/threads, so a I3 3.4 will run better then a I7 2.0, they say that the cores/threads are used on rendering, rendering is core/thread intensive, while 360 is speed intensive, also 360 will do best with any gaming GPU, since it favors DirectX.

I see that are guys using I7 980x and GTX 460/480 on 360, can't seem to find any.

I'll create a new topic on the computing section.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jeroen3 on May 12, 2020, 01:52:18 pm
It translates into a fire hazard because the extruder perfoms a slow unplanned dissasembly.

Few programs are very well optimized for many cores. So buying the new amd threadripper 64 code for $4k gives you the same single thread performance compared to a ryzen 5 3600 (https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/AMD-Ryzen-Threadripper-3990X-vs-AMD-Ryzen-5-3600/3674vs3481). Which is a pretty well priced part at the moment. 
So go look at that single thread table (https://www.cpubenchmark.net/singleThread.html) and pick a affordable one from there.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 12, 2020, 03:55:39 pm
LOL... a benchmark that is entirely derived from fettling by people who know what they're doing, and made possible by the network of fanbois who will gladly spend days helping you get it working. I guess that's somehow a "value-added" proposition...?  :-//

 And NO, it IS about the materials used. In the 3DP INDUSTRY, as in industrial 3DP, they'd fucking laugh you out of the room if you showed up with anything made the way a Prusa is.  :palm:

If you're going to try and argue something so patently ridiculous on the face of it... that somehow precision machined metal is not a superior foundation in comparison to printed plastic... I can only assume that you are YET AGAIN trolling me, Scram... and I have no patience for it today
.  ::)

mnem
(https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/coffee_L.gif)
Bullying and being loud and belligerent isn't proper discussion form. It's a tactic designed to distract people from the lack of substance of the argument, and to tire them out with unrelated matters. Just two weeks ago you had a similar run in with other members of this forum, causing them to walk out. What med6753 said back then is almost exactly what I'd say to you now, except that I'm not going to walk out.

And my measured response to this is bullshit. You know, it's not the subject matter so much that I object to, it's the attitude that goes along with it. You act like a bully. That this forum is for your personal use to trash with tirades as you please and openly ridicule anyone who disagrees with you. And your response here to me and Oculus proves it. I got news for you. Who died and left you boss?

Yes I'm a prickly bastard and proud of it. And I really don't like individuals who truly believe they are always right. And unfortunately that's how you come across. You feel like you walk on egg shells? What a load of crap.  ::) More like a bull in a china shop.   

I got my big boy pants on. As well as my walking shoes. And I'm voting with them.  |O

Getting back to the discussion at hand. Materials used are only relevant when the results follow. So far bench mark print quality has resulted from plastic parts. On a personal level I'd prefer to see some chunky metal parts, but both the large amount of junky metal printer parts on the market and printers with plastic parts which print benchmark quality show causality isn't patently obvious or even present at all. Any expert who takes the part material as a measure of the resulting print quality obviously isn't any kind of expert at all.

The video below compares the Ender and the Prusa seems to reflect the general consensus. It also includes assembly, print quality and general liveability. As so many will say, the Ender 3 is amazing value for money.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_poG3WRzUU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_poG3WRzUU)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 12, 2020, 04:54:55 pm
*Yawwwnnn* Scram, you're a well-known troll who just doesn't know when to quit.  :palm:

You may not like my style, but I've been there, I've dunnat, and I know the difference between fanboi-ism and what's actually easy. I'm trying to keep people from making the same mistakes I made, (Please, please for Ifni's sake, learn from my mistakes) while you (again) just keep parroting back the same exact arguments over and over in slightly different ways, while still refusing to address the points I've made from actual experience.  |O

So... I'm going to ask you something. Just how many 3DP do YOU have FIRSTHAND experience building...? I obviously don't know as much about 3DP as Monkeh or even bean; but I DO know what isn't EASY (therefore appropriate for a first build), AND I've done it, so I have some experience. What do YOU have aside from conjecture? What's your excuse for bringing this shit back up when we've FINALLY moved on to productive discussion?


mnem
Thanks for playing.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 12, 2020, 05:51:30 pm
It translates into a fire hazard because the extruder perfoms a slow unplanned dissasembly.

Which extruders disassemble themselves when faced with a jam? All of mine will either stall out or chew through the filament - no hazard, just frustration.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 12, 2020, 06:23:10 pm
I think he may be talking about over the long term... the constant grinding and popping back on retraction does tend to loosen screws over time (at least it did when I was fiddling with that hybrid hotend) unless you really tighten them down. This brings its own hazards in stripped threads, especially if you have huge Shrek hamhands (like me) and have to constantly mind yourself not to over-tighten, or if you like to tinker and are tearing it apart repeatedly. You also tend to notice such things more often if you tinker constantly. ;)

mnem
 :popcorn:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 12, 2020, 06:35:10 pm
*Yawwwnnn* Scram, you're a well-known troll who just doesn't know when to quit.  :palm:

You may not like my style, but I've been there, I've dunnat, and I know the difference between fanboi-ism and what's actually easy. I'm trying to keep people from making the same mistakes I made, (Please, please for Ifni's sake, learn from my mistakes) while you (again) just keep parroting back the same exact arguments over and over in slightly different ways, while still refusing to address the points I've made from actual experience.  |O

So... I'm going to ask you something. Just how many 3DP do YOU have FIRSTHAND experience building...? I obviously don't know as much about 3DP as Monkeh or even bean; but I DO know what isn't EASY (therefore appropriate for a first build), AND I've done it, so I have some experience. What do YOU have aside from conjecture? What's your excuse for bringing this shit back up when we've FINALLY moved on to productive discussion?


mnem
Thanks for playing.
Yes, I am trolling. med6753 was trolling. Oculus was trolling. Everyone is trolling. It's never mnementh. People can read for themselves. They can draw their own conclusions.

My first-hand experience building printers? Five or six printers I guess, depending how you count, not counting non FDM ones. I dicked around with a couple of the very early Reprap models, a Darwin at the local hackerspace and later a Prusa Mendel for myself. Threaded rods everywhere. After that I got into Ultimaker style printers and did a few of those. I had some fun with Prusa i3 first gens but never got around to building one for myself. I'm currently deliberating whether to build a new Ultimaker style printer with all the modern bells and whistles from the ground up or just buy a Prusa MK3. Both have pros and cons. That's why I asked about the Duet versus the SKR board.

I don't think the earlier questions about your experience with Prusa or Prusa style printers were answered. Not that any of this is relevant to the discussion at hand, mind. More relevant sources for that were provided.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 12, 2020, 06:39:10 pm
I'm currently deliberating whether to build a new Ultimaker style printer with all the modern bells and whistles from the ground up or just buy a Prusa MK3. Both have pros and cons. That's why I asked about the Duet versus the SKR board.

Look into a Railcore if you fancy a project. An expensive, time consuming project. Boy do they make nice prints, though. Zero chance I'd recommend one of those to a newbie.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 12, 2020, 07:04:55 pm
Look into a Railcore if you fancy a project. An expensive, time consuming project. Boy do they make nice prints, though. Zero chance I'd recommend one of those to a newbie.
I wasn't looking for a project of that magnitude but my, that print quality. You're giving me naughty thoughts.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 12, 2020, 07:33:15 pm
No, med was not trolling. med and I are old friends, and we happened to have a disagreement in thread. The fact you don't see that, and know that like adults, we worked it out, is exactly what I'm talking about. You only see ammunition to use in your attacks.  :palm: You really ARE a well-known troll, you have earned this reputation, and I am sick and tired of defending you to my friends. ::)

Your questions about which models I worked with, as you've correctly stated, were immaterial; I ignored them as the obvious attempt to drag me back into a semantic argument I'm already tired of that they clearly are.



Do you have any experience with any of the CReality or clone printers that bean and I have suggested? Or do you simply assume that because you battled your way through all those Prusa builds it's only fair to expect others to do so?

The disagreement we keep having here is NOT one of "how much quality" can you get out of a Prusa; you can get quality out of a plywood RepRap build, especially if you have help. It's whether the "kit" is appropriately simple, pre-assembled and idiot-tolerant to be a good choice as a first build. It's over the amount of fettling required to get a usable print on your first build. What an experienced builder considers to be easy is not the same as what a noob will consider to be so. I learned those lessons the hard way through lots of |O

The Prusa kits STILL aren't even in the same league as the E3 for simplicity. Nor do they have the E3's proven track record of being a FDM printer that is just plain easy to live with. They require maintenance due to the choice of materials that just isn't there with an extrusion-framed build.

There are SO MANY printers out there which produce similar or better results to the Prusa, that it's hard to believe someone with your vast experience can't come up with some good firsthand reasons other than "these guys say it's good" and "I didn't think it was that bad".

I don't know... maybe it's a matter of philosophy, and you just click well with the Prusa crowd, and just don't see what I see in the comparative assache factor of the two kits as a first build. If that's the case, I guess I'll never be able to make you see it. :-//

For the difference in price, you can certainly start with a nice easy E3 or CR-10, THEN when you've gotten a handle on what you're doing, it's EASY and cheap to upgrade to linears & rods or sliders, making them every bit the equal of the Prusa (because hey, they ARE Prusa-derived), only on a more stable base so less fettling over the long run. Two of my friends from my old hackspace, and many popular figures online have gone exactly that route.

But there I go saying "These guys say it's good." ;)

mnem
 :popcorn:


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 12, 2020, 10:11:28 pm
I’m thinking about getting a 3D printer.  Was going to ask for advice. But reading the last page of posts, I think I’m going to get conflicting information :)

Anyway, never used one in my life, but am very mechanically minded, having to tinker and adjust things isn’t a problem.

Not looking to spend a fortune, but want something that is usable and will remain so for years to come. (Am thinking of £500 max with everything I need)

Space is a problem, height doesn’t matter but ideally no more than 56 cm (22 inch) from front to back, width as near to that as possible although can be a little wider if needed.

Noise will be a problem as my house has living room and dining room knocked into one, and my labs in the dining room. Wife won’t put up with constant loud noise when she is watching TV.

As for what I want it for, haven’t a clue really, just always wanted one and have a bit of spare cash at the moment and it’s probably buy one now, or never get one. In the past I’ve tried to fix things with broken cogs etc on, being able to make broken parts is one thing. Making various storage solutions for my electronic components is another.

Any suggestions or can anyone point me to a non biased site giving the pros and cons of the various cheaper models?

Thanks
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 12, 2020, 10:29:26 pm
Well, I can't believe I'm going to light this dumpster fire again, but...

The Prusa Mini fits the bill of being small and probably (just being cautious, I don't have one..) quiet without being too expensive. Presumably with limited space and a WAF to deal with, having to tinker a machine into silence would be problematic. Footprint is apparently 38×33 cm, wider than I thought. Needs some additional clearance for the bed cabling but you've got that.. It's not going to arrive any time soon, though.

I'm sure there are other small bed-flingers (tend to be cheaper) but none spring to mind that I can definitively recommend quality or noise wise (most cheap printers still use Allegro drivers, not to mention awful fans).

I don't think I've seen any popular sites or reviewers without some degree of bias, so I'd suggest taking a wide sampling.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to get some protective gear on before the flames arrive.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 13, 2020, 01:15:05 am
bean and I like CReality; we feel the price/performance ratio is off the hook. I've bought & built a couple Creality clones; a Tevo Tornado (CR10 clone) & a Longer LK4 Pro/Diggro Alpha 3 (Ender 3 Clone).

I like the Ender 3 well enough that I've recommended it to many people; particularly as a first build because they are available as a 98% assembled kit that literally takes minutes to have up & printing. It is an amazing value; with models from ~US$200-350 that all share the same simple, durable DNA. That DNA is good enough that even my cheaper clones were similarly easy to build and get printing right out of the box; everyone I know who has bought an E3 has loved it for the same reason.  :-+

That said... right now I think the CReality CR6-SE (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit) is the best thing since sliced bread; it has a ton of next-gen features, and it is designed from the ground up to be a 5-minute build specifically aimed at the first-time builder. I like the feature set enough that is is the first genuine CReality printer I have seen that I was willing to pay full price for at ~US$360 delivered from the Kickstarter.

From the *ahem* conversation in here, it appears Scram and Monkeh prefer to recommend the Prusa line. While not as attractive a build, they have a good support network (as does the E3) and people will help you get it running and teach you how to tweak it for excellent results.

IMO, the differences boil down to two factors: Initial build is not as "Lego Easy" with the Prusas as it is with the Ender 3. It requires some tweaking to get it printing well; this means many first-time builders will get frustrated. I know I did on several that I helped others build. But... there is a tradeoff.

The E3 is easy, and solidly built, and will print usable, even good quality prints out of the box with little or no tweaking. However, it uses less precise polyurethane-covered rollers riding on v-slot extrusion. You can only get so much precision out of that, so there is a limit to just how fine a print you can make. Period.

With Prusa, the road from first build to usable quality prints is longer, the learning curve is steeper right out of the box, and every build does require tweaking to get to "usable" quality prints, which you get just by bolting an E3 together. HOWEVER... because the Prusa uses ground rods & linear bearings which are inherently more precise, you CAN tweak it to get better precision and better looking prints than the E3 can yield. But THAT requires getting a fair bit deeper into the nut & volts of how a 3DP works than I feel is reasonable for a first machine.

All sniping and personality conflicts set aside; this is the most concise and impartial recommendation I can make:

There are a number of good printers out there; I've recommended the E3 to many happy users. But the CR6-SE is the first I've seen that was designed to make the first-time builder's experience Lego-easy, and I believe it is worth the ~US$350 pricetag just for that and the slightly larger 235x235x250 build volume. I feel the next-gen upgrades (including Touchscreen UI, pre-configured mesh auto-leveling, Trinamic silent steppers and clone Ultrabase build plate) that come built-in make it worthwhile for the more experienced builder, just for the decreased hassle-factor. I believe in it enough that I bought one.

mnem
*putting on muh flame-proof jammies*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 13, 2020, 01:30:45 am
@Monkeh -

I mean this with all sincerity: I applaud your courage, and if I wasn't already wearing muh flame-proof jammies, I'd offer 'em tooya. :-DD

I agree with you on the cheap noisy fans issue; they are a plague on all entry-level 3DP. However, the Trinamic drivers are becoming a more common OEM part; CReality has several models with them (including the CR6-SE I'm so enamored of) and while I dislike the way Longer eviscerated a lot of the functionality of the MKS Gen L with their controller on my Alpha-3, I do appreciate the RAMPS 1.4.4-style upgraded MOSFETS, socketed steppers and yes, genuine Trinamic drivers. Still a good value for the tinkerer, IMO, at US$230 delivered next day via Amazon Prime if that service ever comes available again. :o

mnem
 :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 13, 2020, 01:35:55 am
With Prusa, the road from first build to usable quality prints is longer, the learning curve is steeper right out of the box, and every build does require tweaking to get to "usable" quality prints

I really don't see how you can apply this to a Mini when you've never built one. It's not remotely the same as a Mk2 or Mk3 kit: You bolt a couple of major assemblies together, plug a few connectors in, run a brief test and calibration procedure, adjust the probe offset, and print.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 13, 2020, 01:48:57 am
I’m thinking about getting a 3D printer.  Was going to ask for advice. But reading the last page of posts, I think I’m going to get conflicting information :)

Anyway, never used one in my life, but am very mechanically minded, having to tinker and adjust things isn’t a problem.

Not looking to spend a fortune, but want something that is usable and will remain so for years to come. (Am thinking of £500 max with everything I need)

Space is a problem, height doesn’t matter but ideally no more than 56 cm (22 inch) from front to back, width as near to that as possible although can be a little wider if needed.

Noise will be a problem as my house has living room and dining room knocked into one, and my labs in the dining room. Wife won’t put up with constant loud noise when she is watching TV.

As for what I want it for, haven’t a clue really, just always wanted one and have a bit of spare cash at the moment and it’s probably buy one now, or never get one. In the past I’ve tried to fix things with broken cogs etc on, being able to make broken parts is one thing. Making various storage solutions for my electronic components is another.

Any suggestions or can anyone point me to a non biased site giving the pros and cons of the various cheaper models?

Thanks


Another one to throw onto the Bonfire pile of small printers to consider is the Cetus https://www.cetus3d.com/ (https://www.cetus3d.com/) Dropping a simple enclose over any printer sounds like a good idea too. https://www.cetus3d.com/ (https://www.cetus3d.com/) The now available Smoothieware compatible board takes away some of the reservations I would have had with the earlier locked infrastructure ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or4J3KWxsP0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Or4J3KWxsP0)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 13, 2020, 01:49:55 am
Another one to throw onto the Bonfire pile of small printers to consider is the Cetus https://www.cetus3d.com/ (https://www.cetus3d.com/) Dropping a simple enclose over any printer sounds like a good idea too. https://www.cetus3d.com/ (https://www.cetus3d.com/) The now available Smoothieware compatible board takes away some of the reservations I would have had with the earlier locked infrastructure ones.

Ahh, the Cetus, I forgot about that. I recall hearing good things.

Shame about the Smoothieware.. But as I recall, the vendor firmware only works with their own slicer which rafts everything, so I guess Smoothie isn't so bad.. I haven't exactly kept up with it, though.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 13, 2020, 02:21:34 am
With Prusa, the road from first build to usable quality prints is longer, the learning curve is steeper right out of the box, and every build does require tweaking to get to "usable" quality prints

I really don't see how you can apply this to a Mini when you've never built one. It's not remotely the same as a Mk2 or Mk3 kit: You bolt a couple of major assemblies together, plug a few connectors in, run a brief test and calibration procedure, adjust the probe offset, and print.

I watched Josef's build video on it. The E3 is easier. The CR6-SE is easier than that. What more can I say? :-//

Also, I really can't in good conscience recommend any cantilever architecture printer, no matter who made it. And then, of course, there's the tiny 180mm x 180mm x 180mm build volume... it's a little bit more than 1/3 that of the CR6-SE.  ::)

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 13, 2020, 02:35:37 am
With Prusa, the road from first build to usable quality prints is longer, the learning curve is steeper right out of the box, and every build does require tweaking to get to "usable" quality prints

I really don't see how you can apply this to a Mini when you've never built one. It's not remotely the same as a Mk2 or Mk3 kit: You bolt a couple of major assemblies together, plug a few connectors in, run a brief test and calibration procedure, adjust the probe offset, and print.

I watched Josef's build video on it. The E3 is easier. The CR6-SE is easier than that. What more can I say? :-//

You could explain how a fairly simple assembly procedure leads to 'every build requires tweaking'.. Oh, why bother.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 13, 2020, 06:10:07 am
Off topic but I had a stash of Stepper Drives arrive today for my 100W Laser build so I did what any responsible EEVBlog member should do I took it apart slicing the warranty void sticker in the process >:D Two Banks of four fets under the board heatsinked to the 3mm Case should get the job done. Conformal coating is a bit average but the rest looks well assembled.

Three drivers for around 1/2 the price of a complete Ender 3.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jeroen3 on May 13, 2020, 06:55:21 am
Today I saw on reddit a filament jam detection sensor.
https://reddit.com/r/prusa3d/comments/gifx5s/a_clog_detector_all_files_available/

Ingenius, why don't the printers have this yet?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 13, 2020, 11:15:40 am
Here's another example of real world (is there a false world?  :) ) usage for a 3D printer for anyone out there considering one. Another woodworking tool - this time a cheap 90 deg corner clamp. It isn't high quality and the "pads" are very sloppy and move side-to-side too much. I whipped up a quick adapter in Fusion 360 which fits over the top and fixes the sloppiness and also makes them a little wider. Came out right the first time. Took about 25 min. to print each one. Might make them a little taller but they work great like they are.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 13, 2020, 02:53:24 pm
No, med was not trolling. med and I are old friends, and we happened to have a disagreement in thread. The fact you don't see that, and know that like adults, we worked it out, is exactly what I'm talking about. You only see ammunition to use in your attacks.  :palm: You really ARE a well-known troll, you have earned this reputation, and I am sick and tired of defending you to my friends. ::)

Your questions about which models I worked with, as you've correctly stated, were immaterial; I ignored them as the obvious attempt to drag me back into a semantic argument I'm already tired of that they clearly are.



Do you have any experience with any of the CReality or clone printers that bean and I have suggested? Or do you simply assume that because you battled your way through all those Prusa builds it's only fair to expect others to do so?

The disagreement we keep having here is NOT one of "how much quality" can you get out of a Prusa; you can get quality out of a plywood RepRap build, especially if you have help. It's whether the "kit" is appropriately simple, pre-assembled and idiot-tolerant to be a good choice as a first build. It's over the amount of fettling required to get a usable print on your first build. What an experienced builder considers to be easy is not the same as what a noob will consider to be so. I learned those lessons the hard way through lots of |O

The Prusa kits STILL aren't even in the same league as the E3 for simplicity. Nor do they have the E3's proven track record of being a FDM printer that is just plain easy to live with. They require maintenance due to the choice of materials that just isn't there with an extrusion-framed build.

There are SO MANY printers out there which produce similar or better results to the Prusa, that it's hard to believe someone with your vast experience can't come up with some good firsthand reasons other than "these guys say it's good" and "I didn't think it was that bad".

I don't know... maybe it's a matter of philosophy, and you just click well with the Prusa crowd, and just don't see what I see in the comparative assache factor of the two kits as a first build. If that's the case, I guess I'll never be able to make you see it. :-//

For the difference in price, you can certainly start with a nice easy E3 or CR-10, THEN when you've gotten a handle on what you're doing, it's EASY and cheap to upgrade to linears & rods or sliders, making them every bit the equal of the Prusa (because hey, they ARE Prusa-derived), only on a more stable base so less fettling over the long run. Two of my friends from my old hackspace, and many popular figures online have gone exactly that route.

But there I go saying "These guys say it's good." ;)

mnem
 :popcorn:
You're still trying to make an argument out of your experience, which you at the same time refuse to quantify, even after indulging your attempt to upstage the people in this thread. It seems pretty obvious that being more specific than you are would show how silly all this noise you've been making has been. I'm still not sure what this experience is supposed to tell us. Apparently you had a bad time with earlier printers. Maybe that tells us earlier printers were a bit more of a pain to put together or use. Maybe it just tells us you couldn't figure them out.

Either way it doesn't seem to relate to the discussion at hand. The consensus seems to be the modern Prusa MK3 is an excellent printer for a complete novice. The video I posted before and will post again goes through some lengths to explain how and why. The Prusa comes with an excellent user manual and is incredibly easy to put together. It comes with additional video instructions. There's excellent support from both manufacturer and community. It's very easy to get high quality prints from the printer. It's a more liveable and easy printer than the E3 and ultimately it's a better printer. Start at 5:48 for the most relevant bit. Does that make the Ender 3 a bad printer for a beginner? No, it doesn't. It gets surprisingly close for a lot less money. Pretending it's a better printer for beginners is however doing said beginners a disservice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_poG3WRzUU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_poG3WRzUU)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 13, 2020, 03:08:41 pm
bean and I like CReality; we feel the price/performance ratio is off the hook. I've bought & built a couple Creality clones; a Tevo Tornado (CR10 clone) & a Longer LK4 Pro/Diggro Alpha 3 (Ender 3 Clone).

I like the Ender 3 well enough that I've recommended it to many people; particularly as a first build because they are available as a 98% assembled kit that literally takes minutes to have up & printing. It is an amazing value; with models from ~US$200-350 that all share the same simple, durable DNA. That DNA is good enough that even my cheaper clones were similarly easy to build and get printing right out of the box; everyone I know who has bought an E3 has loved it for the same reason.  :-+

That said... right now I think the CReality CR6-SE (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit) is the best thing since sliced bread; it has a ton of next-gen features, and it is designed from the ground up to be a 5-minute build specifically aimed at the first-time builder. I like the feature set enough that is is the first genuine CReality printer I have seen that I was willing to pay full price for at ~US$360 delivered from the Kickstarter.

From the *ahem* conversation in here, it appears Scram and Monkeh prefer to recommend the Prusa line. While not as attractive a build, they have a good support network (as does the E3) and people will help you get it running and teach you how to tweak it for excellent results.

IMO, the differences boil down to two factors: Initial build is not as "Lego Easy" with the Prusas as it is with the Ender 3. It requires some tweaking to get it printing well; this means many first-time builders will get frustrated. I know I did on several that I helped others build. But... there is a tradeoff.

The E3 is easy, and solidly built, and will print usable, even good quality prints out of the box with little or no tweaking. However, it uses less precise polyurethane-covered rollers riding on v-slot extrusion. You can only get so much precision out of that, so there is a limit to just how fine a print you can make. Period.

With Prusa, the road from first build to usable quality prints is longer, the learning curve is steeper right out of the box, and every build does require tweaking to get to "usable" quality prints, which you get just by bolting an E3 together. HOWEVER... because the Prusa uses ground rods & linear bearings which are inherently more precise, you CAN tweak it to get better precision and better looking prints than the E3 can yield. But THAT requires getting a fair bit deeper into the nut & volts of how a 3DP works than I feel is reasonable for a first machine.

All sniping and personality conflicts set aside; this is the most concise and impartial recommendation I can make:

There are a number of good printers out there; I've recommended the E3 to many happy users. But the CR6-SE is the first I've seen that was designed to make the first-time builder's experience Lego-easy, and I believe it is worth the ~US$350 pricetag just for that and the slightly larger 235x235x250 build volume. I feel the next-gen upgrades (including Touchscreen UI, pre-configured mesh auto-leveling, Trinamic silent steppers and clone Ultrabase build plate) that come built-in make it worthwhile for the more experienced builder, just for the decreased hassle-factor. I believe in it enough that I bought one.

mnem
*putting on muh flame-proof jammies*
I don't "prefer to recommend the Prusa line". That's the kind of misconceptions you get when the fanboy/hater crowd perturbs any nuanced discussion. It all depends on your situations and preferences. The Ender 3 is a pretty good printer. If your budget is a few hundred bucks or you just want to get your feet wet you cannot really go wrong with it, especially when compared to its competitors at the same price point. If you have more money to burn, the Prusa MK3 is an excellent option. Building one is easy. The quality, ease of use and general liveability is ultimately just better. It comes at a much steeper price though and that's why there isn't a single answer for everyone.

You want a decent printer and excellent value for money? Go with the Ender 3 Pro. You'll get printing in no time and learn a lot without tearing your hair out. You want the better printer and can spare the extra cash? Get the MK3.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 13, 2020, 03:10:33 pm
Here's another example of real world (is there a false world?  :) ) usage for a 3D printer for anyone out there considering one. Another woodworkiing tool - this time a cheap 90 deg corner clamp. It isn't high quality and the "pads" are very sloppy and move side-to-side too much. I whipped up a quick adapter in Fusion 360 which fits over the top and fixes the sloppiness and also makes them a little wider. Came out right the first time. Took about 25 min. to print each one. Might make them a little taller but they work great like they are.

(Attachment Link)
This guy has some pretty cool functional prints for the shop. Some feel a little bit like a solution looking for a problem, but many are very practical.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8mzMDLqENA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k8mzMDLqENA)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 13, 2020, 03:15:12 pm
The consensus seems to be the modern Prusa MK3 is an excellent printer for a complete novice.

I have to admit I would agree the kit form is not a good idea for anyone not already mechanically inclined - there's too many fragile parts and too much 'feel' needed (I don't consider this any different for a kit with all metal components - small screws and aluminium threads are fragile). However, anyone who's got a few years of tinkering with any small mechanical systems under their belt (no pun intended) should be okay.

The Mini, on the other hand, is in an entirely different category no matter how badly Josef managed to screw up a video introduction to it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 13, 2020, 03:24:51 pm
Today I saw on reddit a filament jam detection sensor.  https://reddit.com/r/prusa3d/comments/gifx5s/a_clog_detector_all_files_available/  Ingenius, why don't the printers have this yet?

That is ingenious... can a clog cause any kind of catastrophic failure that could occur in the 7-minute window? The only thing I can think of would be blowing a weak pneumatic coupler apart; but that would be more a "You needed to fix this anyways" scenario. I imagine 7 min is long enough to avoid false positive during a ironing operation on most flat surfaces.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 13, 2020, 03:27:26 pm
I have to admit I would agree the kit form is not a good idea for anyone not already mechanically inclined - there's too many fragile parts and too much 'feel' needed (I don't consider this any different for a kit with all metal components - small screws and aluminium threads are fragile). However, anyone who's got a few years of tinkering with any small mechanical systems under their belt (no pun intended) should be okay.

The Mini, on the other hand, is in an entirely different category no matter how badly Josef managed to screw up a video introduction to it.
The video compares it to building a Lego set, so I guess that if you manage one of those without ingesting too many bricks you should be fine. You could always order a ready to print MK3 as that's a service they provide, but if that's for reasons of ineptitude I don't think 3D printers are for you. I feel that's more for people who already know what they're doing and just need a printer to produce prints. I don't think there's a printer on the market which doesn't require tinkering sooner or later and having a basic grasp of its principles is essentially required. I guess we're saying the same thing. :P
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 13, 2020, 03:38:25 pm
This guy has some pretty cool functional prints for the shop. Some feel a little bit like a solution looking for a problem, but many are very practical.

He does as much 3D printing as woodworking, but that's cool. Lots of ideas there, just goes to show 3D printing is a great way to add functionality and improvements to many things you might not realize at first.

But, that video reminds me - I need a center finder too and so now I will get that model and print also. Thanks.  :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 13, 2020, 03:40:54 pm
Scram... you are STILL trolling ME. PLEASE stop. No matter how smugly conservative your word choice is, the fact you won't stop beleaguering me IS TROLLING.

Quote from: Mr Scram
The consensus seems to be the modern Prusa MK3 is an excellent printer for a complete novice.

No... that is A consensus between some people, two of which are in this thread. I have relevant experience, and I disagree. DEAL WITH IT.

HobGoblyn asked for opinions... that was my considered opinion, and I don't need to justify myself to you for that, nor do I have to allow you to drag me into another of your incessant nit-picking sessions. Furthermore, anybody but YOU can see that I deliberately tried NOT to be antagonistic in my opinion... yet you simply WILL NOT LET IT GO.

You are a selfish, obsessive, relentless individual, who cares only about being right, or if you can't do that, getting the last word in. |O

PLEASE, go stalk someone ELSE. :palm:

mnem
I'm all out of pithy right now.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 13, 2020, 04:27:18 pm
Scram... you are STILL trolling ME. PLEASE stop. No matter how smugly conservative your word choice is, the fact you won't stop beleaguering me IS TROLLING.
Quote from: Mr Scram
The consensus seems to be the modern Prusa MK3 is an excellent printer for a complete novice.

No... that is A consensus between some people, two of which are in this thread. I have relevant experience, and I disagree. DEAL WITH IT.

HobGoblyn asked for opinions... that was my considered opinion, and I don't need to justify myself to you for that, nor do I have to allow you to drag me into another of your incessant nit-picking sessions. Furthermore, anybody but YOU can see that I deliberately tried NOT to be antagonistic in my opinion... yet you simply WILL NOT LET IT GO.

You are a selfish, obsessive, relentless individual, who cares only about being right, or if you can't do that, getting the last word in. |O

PLEASE, go stalk someone ELSE. :palm:

mnem
I'm all out of pithy right now.
Everyone is trolling. It's never mnementh. The only reason all this noise happens again and again is because refuse to accept you may not be an expert. Whenever this is so much as hinted at, here or elsewhere, you start throwing a fit, bullying and posting endless walls of text with loud fonts. Anything to distract from the discussion at hand. The whole tactic depends on well adjusted people deciding they don't need all that noise sooner or later and leaving the discussion, avoiding a conclusion. I guess we need to see it through for once to have any chance of things changing. People are tired of tiptoeing around a frail ego.

Your experience is wholly irrelevant, not only because an argument from authority is a fallacy, but also because you won't divulge your experience but still attempt to derive authority from it. Its should be noted my experience is as irrelevant as yours, which is why the argument depends on the authority of someone with actual hands-on experience with both printers. The Prusa comes with an excellent user manual and is incredibly easy to put together. He shows it comes with additional video instructions. There's excellent support from both manufacturer and community. It's very easy to get high quality prints from the printer. It's a more liveable and easy printer than the E3 and ultimately it's a better printer. The video shows a well worded and detailed opinion how various printers compare, and why. The conclusions seem to reflect the majority opinion. How two idiots on a fairly obscure forum feel about it is wholly irrelevant. So let's get back to discussing 3D printers. This shit is supposed to be fun.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_poG3WRzUU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_poG3WRzUU)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 13, 2020, 04:31:49 pm
The consensus seems to be the modern Prusa MK3 is an excellent printer for a complete novice.

I have to admit I would agree the kit form is not a good idea for anyone not already mechanically inclined - there's too many fragile parts and too much 'feel' needed (I don't consider this any different for a kit with all metal components - small screws and aluminium threads are fragile). However, anyone who's got a few years of tinkering with any small mechanical systems under their belt (no pun intended) should be okay.

The Mini, on the other hand, is in an entirely different category no matter how badly Josef managed to screw up a video introduction to it.

Kit would be fine for me, over the decades I’ve lost count of the things I’ve stripped down and fixed (and others being amazed I got them back together lol).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 13, 2020, 04:35:46 pm
The consensus seems to be the modern Prusa MK3 is an excellent printer for a complete novice.

I have to admit I would agree the kit form is not a good idea for anyone not already mechanically inclined - there's too many fragile parts and too much 'feel' needed (I don't consider this any different for a kit with all metal components - small screws and aluminium threads are fragile). However, anyone who's got a few years of tinkering with any small mechanical systems under their belt (no pun intended) should be okay.

The Mini, on the other hand, is in an entirely different category no matter how badly Josef managed to screw up a video introduction to it.

Kit would be fine for me, over the decades I’ve lost count of the things I’ve stripped down and fixed (and others being amazed I got them back together lol).

It is, however, a £700 kit which needs probably a little more space than you have.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 13, 2020, 04:51:23 pm
It is, however, a £700 kit which needs probably a little more space than you have.
With a budget of £500 and size constraints I don't think the MK3 is a good match. A problem is that smaller printers often come with disproportionally small print volumes.  Many smaller prints seem to be counter-lever models, which I agree with mnementh seem fundamentally less ideal. Comparing actual print results sounds like a good idea. The Prusa Mini may be an interesting option as it's both smaller and silent, but I don't know enough about those to really recommend one. I think you did more research into them.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nuno_pt on May 13, 2020, 05:09:00 pm
From my point of view, I'm just starting to get my feet wet on 3D, makes sense the Ender 3 Pro or the new 3v2, they cost little, quality is good from what I read on international forums and also in my country forums, allot of support from the community, this will be to print not much complicate things like some toys for the kids, frames for pictures, some boxes to keep the components, some parts for my airsoft guns, by the time I can do all that in a good and decent way, I should be able to see if I need to upgrade or to buy something better or not, them is the all part of maybe building an enclosure for the printer to make stable printing.

So lots to learn, then see if I need to move to something else.

In my country there are allot of guys using between 3 to 7 Enders 3 Pro all upgrade and they don't buy another brand, but on the opposite side  you also have lot's of guys with a cluster of MK3 and MK3s. 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 13, 2020, 06:13:54 pm
Many thanks all.

I've watched the youtube vid Mr Scram posted.

From that, while the i3 Mk3 came off best in most things, the Ender 3 also came up very good.  The CR10 not so good (but he did stress that might be because his needs adjusting).

Print quality wise, apart from horizontal text printing and 5 degrees less overhang, the Ender 3 seems on par with the I3 Mk3 quality (Ender 3 had less string with the tiny vertical bits).

He stressed how much easier the i3 Mk3 is to use and how quite it is.


I've spent a few hours watching various youtube on the Ender 3 (will watch some on the other models suggested to me in this thread tomorrow), and it seems that I can upgrade it to be virtually silent with things like motor dampers etc.  From what I've watched, I THINK (haven't done my sums yet) I could get the Ender 3 and all the bits to upgrade, for 1/2 the price the i3 Mk3 costs.

Then we come to space.  I have two options.  I'm in the middle of rearranging my lab at the moment, I've attached as few pics if anyone's interested, the table to the left hand side, is really totally unused (it has an external disk drive and an audio interface on it, both could be put underneath the table).  The only thing on it is my second monitor (both monitors on those arms that allow them to go up, down in and out).

The table is only 60 cm deep though, and I'm not sure how I could redesign my monitor (or lab) layout to give me the entire table, maybe I could get a stand that allows it to go above my main monitor.  Height is zero problem, shelves can easily be moved/removed.

The other option is our spare room. I say spare room, junk yard is a more apt description, it's used to store everything. Size is no problem there, but I would have to set up a web cam etc to keep an eye on it. Would much rather it in the main room with my PC etc.

If anyone can suggest a better layout for my lab, that could accommodate a 3D printer,  I'm more than happy to consider it.

Many thanks for all the advice

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 13, 2020, 06:28:11 pm
Many thanks all.

I've watched the youtube vid Mr Scram posted.

From that, while the i3 Mk3 came off best in most things, the Ender 3 also came up very good.  The CR10 not so good (but he did stress that might be because his needs adjusting).

Print quality wise, apart from horizontal text printing and 5 degrees less overhang, the Ender 3 seems on par with the I3 Mk3 quality (Ender 3 had less string with the tiny vertical bits).

He stressed how much easier the i3 Mk3 is to use and how quite it is.


I've spent a few hours watching various youtube on the Ender 3 (will watch some on the other models suggested to me in this thread tomorrow), and it seems that I can upgrade it to be virtually silent with things like motor dampers etc.  From what I've watched, I THINK (haven't done my sums yet) I could get the Ender 3 and all the bits to upgrade, for 1/2 the price the i3 Mk3 costs.

Then we come to space.  I have two options.  I'm in the middle of rearranging my lab at the moment, I've attached as few pics if anyone's interested, the table to the left hand side, is really totally unused (it has an external disk drive and an audio interface on it, both could be put underneath the table).  The only thing on it is my second monitor (both monitors on those arms that allow them to go up, down in and out).

The table is only 60 cm deep though, and I'm not sure how I could redesign my monitor (or lab) layout to give me the entire table, maybe I could get a stand that allows it to go above my main monitor.  Height is zero problem, shelves can easily be moved/removed.

The other option is our spare room. I say spare room, junk yard is a more apt description, it's used to store everything. Size is no problem there, but I would have to set up a web cam etc to keep an eye on it. Would much rather it in the main room with my PC etc.

If anyone can suggest a better layout for my lab, that could accommodate a 3D printer,  I'm more than happy to consider it.

Many thanks for all the advice
I actually started typing but never posted something in that vein. When you start modding printers you can adapt and adjust parts you don't like. Quieting down an Ender 3 would be a good example of that and is fairly commonly done. While I don't think you should convert an Ender 3 when you really want a MK3, changing what you don't like is a viable approach. I don't think you can really get into printing without also starting modding sooner or later. I don't think you will be disappointed if you buy an Ender 3, especially if you accept you will be making some changes ahead of time. I'd definitely opt for the Ender 3 Pro model over de regular Ender 3 as that's just a sensible improvement. Just having a name brand power supply is worth it.

In terms of space you seem to have oodles of it. The desk would be an option, but maybe you could extend one of the two smaller shelves a bit so the printer can go there. They're not that heavy. Mind that the printer being on a rigid surface helps print quality, but I think you should be able to affix things fairly rigidly to the wall. Just make sure you have somewhat convenient access. Sticking it too high up the wall isn't recommended.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 13, 2020, 06:31:44 pm
*plonk*

mnem
ahhhh...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 13, 2020, 07:12:49 pm
Many thanks all.

I've watched the youtube vid Mr Scram posted.

From that, while the i3 Mk3 came off best in most things, the Ender 3 also came up very good.  The CR10 not so good (but he did stress that might be because his needs adjusting).

Print quality wise, apart from horizontal text printing and 5 degrees less overhang, the Ender 3 seems on par with the I3 Mk3 quality (Ender 3 had less string with the tiny vertical bits).

He stressed how much easier the i3 Mk3 is to use and how quite it is.


I've spent a few hours watching various youtube on the Ender 3 (will watch some on the other models suggested to me in this thread tomorrow), and it seems that I can upgrade it to be virtually silent with things like motor dampers etc.  From what I've watched, I THINK (haven't done my sums yet) I could get the Ender 3 and all the bits to upgrade, for 1/2 the price the i3 Mk3 costs.

Then we come to space.  I have two options.  I'm in the middle of rearranging my lab at the moment, I've attached as few pics if anyone's interested, the table to the left hand side, is really totally unused (it has an external disk drive and an audio interface on it, both could be put underneath the table).  The only thing on it is my second monitor (both monitors on those arms that allow them to go up, down in and out).

The table is only 60 cm deep though, and I'm not sure how I could redesign my monitor (or lab) layout to give me the entire table, maybe I could get a stand that allows it to go above my main monitor.  Height is zero problem, shelves can easily be moved/removed.

The other option is our spare room. I say spare room, junk yard is a more apt description, it's used to store everything. Size is no problem there, but I would have to set up a web cam etc to keep an eye on it. Would much rather it in the main room with my PC etc.

If anyone can suggest a better layout for my lab, that could accommodate a 3D printer,  I'm more than happy to consider it.

Many thanks for all the advice

I actually conversed with bean about your space issues last night... one VERY nice thing about the E3's design (which my Diggro shares) is that it is entirely unitized, and it comes with this uber-convenient handle built right in. Because the frame is short enough and rigid enough to support it without harming print quality like with the larger CR-10, you can (and most users do) mount the filament holder right on the top of the unit.

This IS inconvenient in height-restricted areas; however, combined with its light weight it DOES make the E3 form-factor so VERY CONVENIENTLY STOWABLE.

Just unplug the power from the back and stash it somewhere, filament and all. I do NOT recommend leaving the filament stored on the printer for for long durations; keeping the filament from absorbing airborne moisture (I store it in a freezer baggie with a dessicant pack) is a key element to successful prints. However I often take my Diggro off my bench when I want to work on other things for an afternoon, or even just to have room to work on pieces between prints.  :-+ Also, if I want to print something while the fam is in the office, I just cart it upstairs and use it in the bedroom. The E3 is VERY family-livable. :-+

One of the key factors for 3D printing, like everything is location, location, location. You want your printer on a very solid table or workbench; card tables and coffee tables may SEEM just the right size, but they tend to be somewhat wobbly and the printer being able to shuck back & forth does affect print quality. You probably don't want to put it on the wheeled part of your bench. Ikea Lack tables are a popular choice, but I'd suggest x-bracing the legs to stiffen them up. :-+

[EDIT]

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=990692;image)
https://www.amazon.com/Video-Baby-Monitor-Camera-Audio/dp/B07ZNBVFXG/

Oh... a webcam is not necessary for use while you're doing other stuff. For the easy solution, I just use a cheap Video Baby Monitor if I need to be in another room. They've evolved quite a bit over the last few years; mine is a ANMEATE brand cheapie but it has excellent resolution video w/audio, LiPo battery built-into the monitor with several hours runtime, and it charges from a Micro-USB. You can even run the camera from a micro-USB plugged into a power bank! :-+

Just be mindful, and treat it like you would a baby... pay attention to what it's doing on the monitor, and don't walk away from the monitor and forget it.

Good luck!

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 13, 2020, 07:43:10 pm
I've spent a few hours watching various youtube on the Ender 3 (will watch some on the other models suggested to me in this thread tomorrow), and it seems that I can upgrade it to be virtually silent with things like motor dampers etc.  From what I've watched, I THINK (haven't done my sums yet) I could get the Ender 3 and all the bits to upgrade, for 1/2 the price the i3 Mk3 costs.

Absolutely, and it's a perfectly reasonable option. The two biggest changes you can make are replacing the controller with something with Trinamic drivers (an SKR Mini E3 is specifically for this purpose, it's drop-in and even comes with firmware for an Ender 3 out of the box - price about £20) and replacing the hotend cooling fan with something less horrific. Noctua make some very nice fans which should suit, you just need to get at either a 5V or 12V supply for them. There's also some reasonable Sunon fans in 24V, if you can find anywhere to buy them. Maybe bolt onto a Digikey or Mouser order..

For the location, that side table should be fine, although you may have to put the printer on sideways. If you can move equipment around a little and scoot the microscope to the right and the monitors with it, you might just be okay there.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nuno_pt on May 13, 2020, 08:19:37 pm
The guys here are using this kit < https://pt.aliexpress.com/i/4000532227452.html > and BMG extruder clones
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 13, 2020, 08:23:35 pm
The guys here are using this kit < https://pt.aliexpress.com/i/4000532227452.html > and BMG extruder clones

I can't say I see any upside to using the full SKR when the Mini E3 physically fits correctly..

Also, total sidenote for everyone, for petes sake PLEASE strip the country-specific prefix from Aliexpress links. It's an awful enough site to use without it deciding I want everything in Portuguese or French and getting stuck like that.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 13, 2020, 09:51:38 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=990748;image)

https://www.banggood.com/Creality-3D-Ender-3-V2-Upgraded-DIY-3D-Printer-Kit-220x220x250mm-Printing-Size-Ultra-silent-TMC2208-or-Silent-Mainboard-or-Carborundum-Glass-Platform-Support-Resume-Print-p-1661657.html (https://www.banggood.com/Creality-3D-Ender-3-V2-Upgraded-DIY-3D-Printer-Kit-220x220x250mm-Printing-Size-Ultra-silent-TMC2208-or-Silent-Mainboard-or-Carborundum-Glass-Platform-Support-Resume-Print-p-1661657.html)

If you're not needing it immediately, it appears bang-em-good still has some slots available on their preorder allotment of the E3V2. STM32F103 board/Trinamic steppers, similar touchscreen to the one from the BigTreeTech controller. I WAS looking at that when the Diggro came across my RADAR so cheap, but was like "I wanna tinker NOW, not sometime mid-July!" which is when they're due. :-//

Cheers,

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nuno_pt on May 13, 2020, 10:43:37 pm
mnementh, I don't need it now, it will give me more time to research to read and to build a new mITX since my laptop won't run F360, and the 3Pro are all sold out across EU, only for the end of this month there will be stock.

And buy them from China is a no go, since it will hit the costumes and there you go 23% VAT + other taxes and so on.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 13, 2020, 10:49:04 pm
The viability of that Ender 3 V2 also largely depends on what it ends up costing you when it's actually on your desk. With the somewhat increased price and possibly a chunk of tax added on top it may be a fairly expensive printer until they're available locally. The silent steppers are nice, the other upgrades I'm not really sure about. I guess they won't hurt, probably. I'm not sure the value for money moves in the right direction. I'm keen to see what the reviews will say.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nuno_pt on May 13, 2020, 11:09:32 pm
Mr.Scram the prices are very similar in the official store in EU < https://www.creality3dofficial.com/ (https://www.creality3dofficial.com/) > or here < https://www.3dprima.com/3d-printers/manufactures/creality/search/creality-106/?aoff=s (https://www.3dprima.com/3d-printers/manufactures/creality/search/creality-106/?aoff=s) >
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 13, 2020, 11:30:12 pm
Mr.Scram the prices are very similar in the official store in EU < https://www.creality3dofficial.com/ (https://www.creality3dofficial.com/) > or here < https://www.3dprima.com/3d-printers/manufactures/creality/search/creality-106/?aoff=s (https://www.3dprima.com/3d-printers/manufactures/creality/search/creality-106/?aoff=s) >
Creality has a resin printer now. I'm not a fan of the bucket lid, but other than that it's looking quite good. Interesting.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 13, 2020, 11:36:42 pm
mnementh, I don't need it now, it will give me more time to research to read and to build a new mITX since my laptop won't run F360, and the 3Pro are all sold out across EU, only for the end of this month there will be stock.

And buy them from China is a no go, since it will hit the costumes and there you go 23% VAT + other taxes and so on.

Just to be sure you're aware... the Pro is not the E3V2. It'll still have the 8-bit board, no Trinamic or touchscreen, and the noisy old-design hotend.  :palm: And probably several other upgrades that slip my mind ATM.

It sucks that none of your local vendors even HAVE ACCESS to the E3V2 yet, even for preorder, meanwhile the preorder's been sold out on the CReality site for weeks. |O

Are you sure bang-em-good doesn't have a EU warehouse that could maybe save you from the rump-rangers at customs...?

mnem
 :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 13, 2020, 11:42:11 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=990828;image)

mnem
*Chart-ily*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 14, 2020, 12:21:11 am
Speaking of actual prints - we have two center finders. 3 hours for the blue and 35 min. for the red.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jay_Diddy_B on May 14, 2020, 12:38:18 am
Hi,

I got my first 3D printer yesterday.

I have made these parts for attaching the handle on a Tektronix TDS3000 series scope.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=132206.0;attach=990576;image)


More details here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/looking-for-some-tektronix-tds3000-parts/msg3065572/#msg3065572 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/looking-for-some-tektronix-tds3000-parts/msg3065572/#msg3065572)

Here is a picture of the printer:

[attachimg=1]

Regards,
Jay_Diddy_B
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jeroen3 on May 14, 2020, 07:57:41 am
Today I saw on reddit a filament jam detection sensor.  https://reddit.com/r/prusa3d/comments/gifx5s/a_clog_detector_all_files_available/ (https://reddit.com/r/prusa3d/comments/gifx5s/a_clog_detector_all_files_available/)  Ingenius, why don't the printers have this yet?

That is ingenious... can a clog cause any kind of catastrophic failure that could occur in the 7-minute window?
Catastrophic, maybe not. Needs fixing, definitely.

To babysit the printer continuously with a camera is silly. Have some ai do that.
The Spaghetti Detective (https://www.thespaghettidetective.com/) works nice.

The ideal home single-extruder printer I guess would have:
- Silence.
- Camera with spaghetti detective.
- Filament feedrate sensor.
- Automatic leveling.
- Cabinet with filter for abs.
- Automatic nozzle cleaning
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 14, 2020, 08:30:27 am
Catastrophic, maybe not. Needs fixing, definitely.

To babysit the printer continuously with a camera is silly. Have some ai do that.
The Spaghetti Detective (https://www.thespaghettidetective.com/) works nice.

The ideal home single-extruder printer I guess would have:
- Silence.
- Camera with spaghetti detective.
- Filament feedrate sensor.
- Automatic leveling.
- Cabinet with filter for abs.
- Automatic nozzle cleaning
If only the Spaghetti Detective wasn't an online service.  :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jeroen3 on May 14, 2020, 09:08:25 am
Set up your own TSD server (https://www.thespaghettidetective.com/docs/open-source/)
https://github.com/TheSpaghettiDetective/TheSpaghettiDetective (https://github.com/TheSpaghettiDetective/TheSpaghettiDetective)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 14, 2020, 09:45:50 am

You probably don't want to put it on the wheeled part of your bench.


Thanks, neither tables are wheeled, there's another pull out table underneath my main bench which contains music keyboard (see attached).

If you can move equipment around a little and scoot the microscope to the right and the monitors with it, you might just be okay there.

Sadly I don't think this is possible, as it is, the space between the lamp stand on the right,  to the microscope on the left, is only 70 cm (27 inch), I already wish I had slightly more space there.  Then again, I can swing the microscope out of the way when not in use, so I'll have to have a think.

At the moment I'm strongly favouring the E3 but am going to keep researching and watching youtube vids of the others

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 14, 2020, 11:20:28 am
I presume the Pro version is worth the extra £55?

Amazon UK has pro for £299 and non pro for £245
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 14, 2020, 11:32:56 am
I presume the Pro version is worth the extra £55?

Amazon UK has pro for £299 and non pro for £245
Just the name brand power supply is worth it in my eyes and the other improvements can't hurt.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 14, 2020, 01:28:42 pm
Will order the following  in about 3 hours unless someone tells me I shouldn't :)

£14  Vibration Damper (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stepper-Vibration-Dampers-Machine-Creality/dp/B07KVV947G/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8) 

£40  SKR Mini E3 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/ref=pa_sp_atf_aps_sr_pg1_1?ie=UTF8&adId=A079191731ZULV1NP8TBM&url=%2FBIGTREETECH-Control-TMC2209-Printer-Creality%2Fdp%2FB07XYW21J3%2Fref%3Dsr_1_1_sspa%3Fcrid%3DKCNV96HCR3YH%26dchild%3D1%26keywords%3Dskr%2Bmini%2Be3%26qid%3D1589462160%26sprefix%3Dskr%2Bmini%252Caps%252C151%26sr%3D8-1-spons%26psc%3D1&qualifier=1589462160&id=4229467203087061&widgetName=sp_atf)

Cheapest Pro I've found on Amazon is £270 Here (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Creality-Removable-Certified-220x220x250mm-Printing/dp/B07PJQNNGP/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=ender+3&qid=1589462241&sr=8-7)

Total cost £324.  Plus the cost of a fan which I will get once it's arrived and I've looked into it more.

Advice on good filament so I can order some at the same time much appreciated.

Thanks  (will also look at other UK stockists to see if they have printer cheaper)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 14, 2020, 01:52:15 pm
Much as the magnetic build surface on the Ender is 'easy' it is fairly soft and prone to suffering in the longer term so I have swapped mine both out for the Creality Glass ones. So initially it works fine but either consider it a wearing part or see if you can find one with Glass as standard.

The Meanwell upgrade is worth a reasonable chunk of the $ on the Pro version as is the wider rail for the bed to run on most other differences are very minor.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 14, 2020, 02:01:00 pm
Will order the following  in about 3 hours unless someone tells me I shouldn't :)

£14  Vibration Damper (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stepper-Vibration-Dampers-Machine-Creality/dp/B07KVV947G/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8) 

£40  SKR Mini E3 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/ref=pa_sp_atf_aps_sr_pg1_1?ie=UTF8&adId=A079191731ZULV1NP8TBM&url=%2FBIGTREETECH-Control-TMC2209-Printer-Creality%2Fdp%2FB07XYW21J3%2Fref%3Dsr_1_1_sspa%3Fcrid%3DKCNV96HCR3YH%26dchild%3D1%26keywords%3Dskr%2Bmini%2Be3%26qid%3D1589462160%26sprefix%3Dskr%2Bmini%252Caps%252C151%26sr%3D8-1-spons%26psc%3D1&qualifier=1589462160&id=4229467203087061&widgetName=sp_atf)

Cheapest Pro I've found on Amazon is £270 Here (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Creality-Removable-Certified-220x220x250mm-Printing/dp/B07PJQNNGP/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=ender+3&qid=1589462241&sr=8-7)

Total cost £324.  Plus the cost of a fan which I will get once it's arrived and I've looked into it more.

Advice on good filament so I can order some at the same time much appreciated.

Thanks  (will also look at other UK stockists to see if they have printer cheaper)

Or for £369, I can buy an Ender 5 pro
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 14, 2020, 02:07:39 pm
Or for £369, I can buy an Ender 5 pro
Which you'll want upgrades for too. Which brings it closer to the price of a Prusa MK3. For which you'll  probably want some upgrades for sooner or later. You get the point.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jeroen3 on May 14, 2020, 02:13:37 pm
£14  Vibration Damper (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stepper-Vibration-Dampers-Machine-Creality/dp/B07KVV947G/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8) 
I fitted those and they cause ringing on some models. https://all3dp.com/2/3d-printer-ringing-easy-fixes/ (https://all3dp.com/2/3d-printer-ringing-easy-fixes/)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 14, 2020, 02:25:47 pm
Thanks all. I'm stopping looking now, I agree with Mr Scram, there's always something just a few £ more that turns out costing a lot more and it's never ending.

Ender 3 Pro it is.

Any filament suppliers in the UK that someone can recommend would be appreciated.   

Thanks for everyone's advice, much appreciated.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 14, 2020, 03:56:19 pm
Today I saw on reddit a filament jam detection sensor.  https://reddit.com/r/prusa3d/comments/gifx5s/a_clog_detector_all_files_available/ (https://reddit.com/r/prusa3d/comments/gifx5s/a_clog_detector_all_files_available/)  Ingenius, why don't the printers have this yet?

That is ingenious... can a clog cause any kind of catastrophic failure that could occur in the 7-minute window?
Catastrophic, maybe not. Needs fixing, definitely.

To babysit the printer continuously with a camera is silly. Have some ai do that.

The Spaghetti Detective (https://www.thespaghettidetective.com/) works nice.

The ideal home single-extruder printer I guess would have:
- Silence.
- Camera with spaghetti detective.
- Filament feedrate sensor.
- Automatic leveling.
- Cabinet with filter for abs.
- Automatic nozzle cleaning

Dude... you're gonna give the poor guy a fucking coronary just reading the BOM on all that.  :-DD Entry-level... baby steps. ;)

Agreed, that would be an awesome rig... but that setup is a LOT of fettling, on top of the recreational fettling we're already doing. I was offering a cheap, easy, 30-second solution, so a body could get on with their life and get started with a 3DP. Not like the nanny-cam wouldn't have value elsewhere (heck, he might already have one); everybody should have one. I use mine all the time for stuff that is NOT watching the kids.  :P

mnem
(https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/coffee_L.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 14, 2020, 04:02:22 pm
I presume the Pro version is worth the extra £55? Amazon UK has pro for £299 and non pro for £245

Fer sherr worth it. If you have a raging nerd-boner to get something ordered NOW, then the E3 Pro is your best bang/buck. If you can bear to wait, E3V2 or the CR6-SE if a little more volume is needed (220x220x250 vs 235x235x250).

mnem
 :-/O

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 14, 2020, 04:31:20 pm
Will order the following  in about 3 hours unless someone tells me I shouldn't :)

£14  Vibration Damper (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stepper-Vibration-Dampers-Machine-Creality/dp/B07KVV947G/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8) 

£40  SKR Mini E3 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/ref=pa_sp_atf_aps_sr_pg1_1?ie=UTF8&adId=A079191731ZULV1NP8TBM&url=%2FBIGTREETECH-Control-TMC2209-Printer-Creality%2Fdp%2FB07XYW21J3%2Fref%3Dsr_1_1_sspa%3Fcrid%3DKCNV96HCR3YH%26dchild%3D1%26keywords%3Dskr%2Bmini%2Be3%26qid%3D1589462160%26sprefix%3Dskr%2Bmini%252Caps%252C151%26sr%3D8-1-spons%26psc%3D1&qualifier=1589462160&id=4229467203087061&widgetName=sp_atf)

Cheapest Pro I've found on Amazon is £270 Here (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Creality-Removable-Certified-220x220x250mm-Printing/dp/B07PJQNNGP/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=ender+3&qid=1589462241&sr=8-7)

Total cost £324.  Plus the cost of a fan which I will get once it's arrived and I've looked into it more.

Advice on good filament so I can order some at the same time much appreciated.

Thanks  (will also look at other UK stockists to see if they have printer cheaper)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=991254;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=991258;image)   These "vibration dampers" are NOT intended for that purpose; they are CNC manufacturing hardware that the 3DP community has completely misunderstood the purpose of. It was invented to provide self-alignment functionality on stepper motors with 1-piece integral leadscrew. If used with a flex coupler, it allows the entire assembly to deflect under load, causing lost precision & repeatability and the ringing Jeroen3 referred to. Plus, they really make very little difference in noise factor on a properly set up linear actuator.

There's a reason CReality uses a solid coupler with just a slot to allow a few microns of flex; that is all that is needed, and it keeps the layer accuracy/repeatability very high. Adding those rubber mounts will only serve to defeat that design, while also adding offset that you'll have to adjust for.

The Trinamic drivers (and correctly setting the drive current) are really all that is needed to quiet the steppers to a very family-friendly level; where you're going to have noise issues is with the fans. They are NOT family-friendly, especially the 30mm hotend fan. |O

If you're going to spend the money on a new controller, get the touchscreen too; it'll never be cheaper than in the bundle. For everyday use, it is just SO much more civilized.

That one should have a 64x128 emulation mode, so you CAN still have the old familiar UI if you need to add display items in the firmware.

Cheers,

mnem
 :-+


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 14, 2020, 05:01:57 pm
Thanks all. I'm stopping looking now, I agree with Mr Scram, there's always something just a few £ more that turns out costing a lot more and it's never ending.

Ender 3 Pro it is.

Any filament suppliers in the UK that someone can recommend would be appreciated.   

Thanks for everyone's advice, much appreciated.

When I first started out, everybody recommended HatchBox or eSUN or NinjaFlex TPU. (It got to be a joke; seemed every third person recommended NF, even tho I was ONLY interested in printing PLA at the time  :o). eSun had some QC issues, and lost that widespread recommendation for a while.

Since I got back into 3DP, I've mostly been using Amazon brand PLA. Fair price, next day delivery (same day in some areas), and consistently decent quality. Pretty sure it's relabeled eSun or another major label. :-//

My last order was 3D Solutech Real Black because black was out of stock in the Amazon brand. So far, zero issues. Good adhesion, good dimensional accuracy, pretty forgiving of improperly configured hotend (from my hybrid hotend experiments) and decent price, all with Amazon Prime delivery. :-+

Here's ALL3DP's latest roundup: https://all3dp.com/1/best-pla-filament/

mnem
moo?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 14, 2020, 05:25:02 pm
There's lots of good filament out there but I can personally vouch for Atomic PLA -

https://atomicfilament.com/

Ordered 4 rolls to try it at first (red, blue, white, black) and then a month later four more rolls of their other colors. 


Definitely the best filament I've tried to date.  :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 14, 2020, 05:30:54 pm
Many thanks.

Vibration dampers now out.

Now buying this (https://www.amazon.co.uk/BIQU-DIRECT-Controller-Panel-Replacement-Original/dp/B082CJHKYC/ref=sr_1_38?crid=23VIUO3SHHDAW&dchild=1&keywords=ender+3+pro&qid=1589476988&sprefix=ender%2Caps%2C155&sr=8-38) :)

The one Ender 3 pro in stock earlier for £270 has now sold. Next cheapest is £280.

So £280 + £72 = £352 and will be here Monday.  I'm happy with that.

Going to place the order in about an hour, so if anyone can think of anything I've missed, jump in quick :)

A few youtube vids upgraded the Extruder.   It only costs £12 for this (https://www.amazon.co.uk/YONMEIA-Extruder-Aluminum-extruder-Creality/dp/B07R64Q86R/ref=sr_1_20?crid=23VIUO3SHHDAW&dchild=1&keywords=ender+3+pro&qid=1589476988&sprefix=ender%2Caps%2C155&sr=8-20), so unless someone responds before my order, I'll probably order that too.


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 14, 2020, 06:04:16 pm
Noooooo!!!

Get the real LATEST genuine CREALITY one; it's silver and has the CREALITY logo on it. Gimme a sec to find a link.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976970;image)   Here's the one I bought: https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B081R1G4S7/ (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B081R1G4S7/)

Here's WHY: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg3032618/?topicseen#msg3032618 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg3032618/?topicseen#msg3032618)

And here it is (Only $11) on the CREALITY Global Store: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33053947774.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33053947774.html)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=991384;image)   Or, you can look into one of the CNC clone BMG ones: I've drooled over them, but I cannot speak to their quality: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33013818755.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33013818755.html)

mnem
 :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 14, 2020, 06:26:09 pm
I cant seem to find the official one anywhere in the UK. But I wont buy the red one.

Thanks
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 14, 2020, 06:30:05 pm
You're welcome.

Here it is (Only $11) on the CREALITY Global Store:
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33053947774.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33053947774.html)

There's no need to be in a hurry to upgrade; everyone I know who has done so usually uses the stock one for a while, then upgrades when the drive cog gets worn. ;)

mnem
 :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 14, 2020, 06:31:06 pm
Found it on AliExpress here (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993337712.html?src=google&src=google&albch=shopping&acnt=494-037-6276&isdl=y&slnk=&plac=&mtctp=&albbt=Gploogle_7_shopping&aff_atform=google&aff_short_key=UneMJZVf&albagn=888888&albcp=1622677378&albag=57224001810&trgt=743612850714&crea=en32993337712&netw=u&device=c&albpg=743612850714&albpd=en32993337712&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIp7fi3v2z6QIVRLDtCh0R5QNpEAQYDCABEgKCn_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds)

Never used AliExpress, was going to a few weeks ago but their payment page wasn't secure. Will see what it's like now

Edit: Great minds think alike :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 14, 2020, 06:32:31 pm
eSun filament off Amazon is decent enough (although the red PLA+ I've got here is snapping from its own tension when left loaded, which I've not observed with other filaments). Prima is also okay. Ooznest (https://ooznest.co.uk/) sell excellent filaments IME, they're made by MCPP, formerly known as Dutch Filaments. You can order filament from Prusa (*flamesuit*), which is excellent, but the delivery makes the price slightly less attractive. Atomic do not ship outside US/Canada (but it's nice stuff - the owner's a little prickly though).

I would advise leaving the extruder alone until ready to upgrade to something geared down and preferably dual drive - an E3D Titan (or clone thereof) or a Bondtech BMG (or clone thereof). Messing with it prior to making a real upgrade seems senseless. Obviously mnem is going to reject both for using plastic parts - but the only reason they make the alu ones is for use in high temperature enclosures..
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 14, 2020, 06:40:19 pm
Not so... it is NOT a mission-critical load-bearing chassis component, and I understand the BMD uses glas-reinforced plastic just like the one on the E3V2. But the price, when there's simply gorgeous CNC clones out there that get good reviews for ~$20 bux...

And remember, the reason I didn't want to go with one of those is still valid: Keeping the OEM geometry (The CNC one is a drop-in replacement) so I don't have to dive into software hell (for ME) by re-calibrating my extrusion... YET. I'm working on it... I'll get there. And when I'm ready, I'll install my dual-drive extruder.  Please, have mercy... ;)

And if you notice, I just advised the same... no need to be in a rush to upgrade.  :-+

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 14, 2020, 06:55:22 pm
Many thanks.

Vibration dampers now out.

Now buying this (https://www.amazon.co.uk/BIQU-DIRECT-Controller-Panel-Replacement-Original/dp/B082CJHKYC/ref=sr_1_38?crid=23VIUO3SHHDAW&dchild=1&keywords=ender+3+pro&qid=1589476988&sprefix=ender%2Caps%2C155&sr=8-38) :)

The one Ender 3 pro in stock earlier for £270 has now sold. Next cheapest is £280.

So £280 + £72 = £352 and will be here Monday.  I'm happy with that.

Going to place the order in about an hour, so if anyone can think of anything I've missed, jump in quick :)

A few youtube vids upgraded the Extruder.   It only costs £12 for this (https://www.amazon.co.uk/YONMEIA-Extruder-Aluminum-extruder-Creality/dp/B07R64Q86R/ref=sr_1_20?crid=23VIUO3SHHDAW&dchild=1&keywords=ender+3+pro&qid=1589476988&sprefix=ender%2Caps%2C155&sr=8-20), so unless someone responds before my order, I'll probably order that too.
Just start printing without worrying about upgrades too much. Figuring out what you need and why is a valuable lesson on its own. The stock Ender 3 Pro holds its own so just get printing. No need to rush. Get some filament and get cracking.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 14, 2020, 07:37:17 pm
Found it on AliExpress here (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32993337712.html)

Never used AliExpress, was going to a few weeks ago but their payment page wasn't secure. Will see what it's like now

Edit: Great minds think alike :)

AliEx does business strangely; it's true. But I've bought oodles from them and their system does allow you to get your money back if what arrives is utter bunge. If you're really concerned, use PayPal or a PayPal credit card; that way you have them as a second layer of protection. For non-eBay purchases, Paypal Protection is 6 months.

The reason I recommend this one is: It categorically resolves the "moving Bowden tube" issue and related extrusion problems that CAN affect the stock E3. These are almost NEVER a game-stopper, however. 2nd reason: The E3 firmware and most slicer profiles for the E3 are pretty well calibrated to that OEM extruder. The CReality CNC extruder is a drop-in replacement that does not alter the geometry, therefore does not REQUIRE you to re-calibrate your extrusion. One less headache when you're just getting your footing.  :-+

Bottom line; get you some filament, follow the CReality destructions and print a few things. THAT is how you get to where you know what YOU need. ;)

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 15, 2020, 10:00:28 am
Many thanks to everyone for all your help.

Ender 3 Pro will be here by Monday :)

I struggled to find any of the recommended filament in stock in the UK, so being impatient and wanting some for when my printer arrives, I've taken a gamble and ordered two rolls of  amz3d (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01BZ5ND8O/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1), one in black, the other Grey.  If anyone knows this was a bad choice, I can cancel and order something else and still get it here by Monday.

Many thanks all

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 15, 2020, 10:18:17 am
Apart from a couple of rolls of Branded PLA+ I have been buying generic evilbay PLA with very decent results across several different looking spools so I assume several Chinese manufacturers. Post opening storage is important regardless of brand so some extra or dried desiccant bags and heatseal if possible.

The thing you might want to add if you don't have a set is some digital verniers (buy them anyway!) and just do a check of the actual diameter from roll to roll. It has been about the only tweak required on the slicer between rolls and generally sitting from 1.68 to 1.73mm if you don't change it under extrusion can be seen. Most are over the 1.7 so the variation is very minor.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tom66 on May 15, 2020, 11:30:32 am
I'm finding my Anet A8 Plus a reasonable printer.  I received it as Christmas gift from my family, which was unexpected, so this review is made without considering price too much.

Biggest complaints are the bed size is too big for what I need, which has made finding PEI sheets for it a pain.  The glass print surface is a real pain to print PLA on.  I don't like PLA that much for printing though.

Print quality is pretty good once all belts well tightened and bearings lubricated. Original Y-axis bearing failed after 3 months printer usage causing failed 8 hour print  :--  But after lubricating the bearings all seems well. 

Bed heater could be more powerful for its size: takes quite some time to get to 85C (at least 15 minutes) and is operating near 90% duty at this point, so max temp is probably 95C.  This means some will struggle with high temperature filaments that need 100C+ bed temperatures.  I am considering adjusting the PSU to 28V output, to improve bed heating time.  The current PSU has 50% overhead in its power rating, though it is a Chinese special so its 360W rating (and non-PFC nature) are somewhat dubious.

Controller already fried when I accidentally shorted 24V to the thermistor for the extruder. AVR did not survive (perhaps unsurprisingly, although only the ADC part was defective) but that was not too hard to replace. The microSD slot has broken (not retaining card any more) after 100+ ejection/insertion cycles, so that needs to be repaired.

My overall experience is that I much prefer PETG filament, I find PLA to be too difficult bed adhesion wise without assistance (e.g. gluing or super hot bed temperatures).  PETG almost adheres too well, but I've had very few prints fail with it once everything is well adjusted.  The worst thing about PETG is the stringiness, which I've managed to minimise but not completely eliminate.  Some brief post-processing with a hot air gun and a set of files deals with these well enough.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 15, 2020, 11:36:59 am
Count yourself lucky YOU fried the controller rather than this  :scared: https://www.google.com/search?q=Anet+A8+fire&rlz=1C1CHBF_enAU858AU858&sxsrf=ALeKk03IkHsMu-XoXb32fD1OTPiswZdHmQ:1589542393132&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj7uMrt4rXpAhUzyzgGHXxGDoQQ_AUoAXoECA0QAw&biw=1542&bih=1000 (https://www.google.com/search?q=Anet+A8+fire&rlz=1C1CHBF_enAU858AU858&sxsrf=ALeKk03IkHsMu-XoXb32fD1OTPiswZdHmQ:1589542393132&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwj7uMrt4rXpAhUzyzgGHXxGDoQQ_AUoAXoECA0QAw&biw=1542&bih=1000)

Much as I appreciate it was a gift  :-+ there is a limit to where you can drive a price down to before it becomes a problem. If you refitted a stock controller and firmware look around youtube for a thermal runaway fix at least :)

(https://toms3d.org/wp-content/plugins/wp-youtube-lyte/lyteThumbs.php?origThumbUrl=https%3A%2F%2Fi.ytimg.com%2Fvi%2FVK_K6fp4BIk%2F0.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tom66 on May 15, 2020, 11:56:45 am
I've checked and my Anet A8 Plus has the thermal runaway enabled in the firmware.  I tried a number of scenarios including slowly loosening the thermistor and heater from the block to see what the firmware would do.  In all cases, it eventually timed out with a thermal runaway or heating failed fault, within 5 minutes or less.  The watchdog is also enabled; I have managed to "crash" the printer by e.g. removing the SD card or sending it invalid commands, and it safely resets back to the home screen (not great if your print fails, but it won't burn your home down.)

I'm not so worried about the heated bed failing because if that went to 100% duty, the bed would only reach around 100C - likely to damage something but unlikely to start a fire. 

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jeroen3 on May 15, 2020, 12:01:28 pm
Quality Checked.
(https://i.redd.it/c5i5t3kj3ty41.jpg)
 (https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/gjwkhx/bad_news_heated_bed_stopped_working_good_news/)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 15, 2020, 04:30:47 pm
D'OH!  :palm:

mnem
XT60 time.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nuno_pt on May 15, 2020, 04:33:02 pm
 :palm:  :wtf:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 15, 2020, 08:05:57 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUp3oCGZOzk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUp3oCGZOzk)

https://www.slm-solutions.com/en/products/machines/slm500/ (https://www.slm-solutions.com/en/products/machines/slm500/)

I have actually fabbed a similar geometry intake from aluminum sheet & tube. This is DEF prettier, and less manual labor... I think. :-// But not so sure about cost or time; took me 2 1/2 days to make at a cost of ~$600, including about $220 worth of ready-made injector & port flanges rather than turning/milling them by hand.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 15, 2020, 09:51:57 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUp3oCGZOzk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IUp3oCGZOzk)

https://www.slm-solutions.com/en/products/machines/slm500/ (https://www.slm-solutions.com/en/products/machines/slm500/)

I have actually fabbed a similar geometry intake from aluminum sheet & tube. This is DEF prettier, and less manual labor... I think. :-// But not so sure about cost or time; took me 2 1/2 days to make at a cost of ~$600, including about $220 worth of ready-made injector & port flanges rather than turning/milling them by hand.

mnem
 :popcorn:
The part in the video looks more like a demo project than something that would typically be printed. Parts are generally printed for specific reasons. When you need highly intricate geometry traditional processes can't do well or you need low volume part, especially when dimensional accuracy is important. Examples would be rocket engine nozzles and classic car part reproductions.

Both metal and plastic printing tend to fill niches traditional processes don't quite cover. It's crazy we can print full strength titanium parts with highly optimized geometries but you don't want to know what it costs. Plastic printers are attractive because they can do low volume prints for comparatively little money. Compared to injection moulding each part is ridiculously expensive though, although compared to metal printing the cost is obviously very reasonable.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tautech on May 16, 2020, 04:26:52 am
Real nice 3DP multipurpose breakout enclosure for a PSU and the 16ch scanner card in a SDM3065X.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=992172;image)

Further info and pics here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3070270/#msg3070270 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3070270/#msg3070270)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 16, 2020, 01:01:44 pm
That is actually a little bit frightening.  :scared:



[RANDOM MODE]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28XbT11lL24 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28XbT11lL24)

[/RANDOM MODE]


mnem
Can you say BOOM! boys and girls...?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 16, 2020, 01:10:09 pm
Real nice 3DP multipurpose breakout enclosure for a PSU and the 16ch scanner card in a SDM3065X.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=992172;image)

Further info and pics here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3070270/#msg3070270 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3070270/#msg3070270)
I'm not sure I'd use printing for that but a scan card breakout is a good idea.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nuno_pt on May 16, 2020, 01:23:48 pm
Real nice 3DP multipurpose breakout enclosure for a PSU and the 16ch scanner card in a SDM3065X.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/?action=dlattach;attach=992172;image)

Further info and pics here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3070270/#msg3070270 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-new-bench-dmm-sdm3055/msg3070270/#msg3070270)

 :-+ :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: good job, very nice
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 16, 2020, 09:33:32 pm
Will order the following  in about 3 hours unless someone tells me I shouldn't :)

£14  Vibration Damper (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stepper-Vibration-Dampers-Machine-Creality/dp/B07KVV947G/ref=cm_cr_arp_d_product_top?ie=UTF8) 

£40  SKR Mini E3 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/slredirect/picassoRedirect.html/ref=pa_sp_atf_aps_sr_pg1_1?ie=UTF8&adId=A079191731ZULV1NP8TBM&url=%2FBIGTREETECH-Control-TMC2209-Printer-Creality%2Fdp%2FB07XYW21J3%2Fref%3Dsr_1_1_sspa%3Fcrid%3DKCNV96HCR3YH%26dchild%3D1%26keywords%3Dskr%2Bmini%2Be3%26qid%3D1589462160%26sprefix%3Dskr%2Bmini%252Caps%252C151%26sr%3D8-1-spons%26psc%3D1&qualifier=1589462160&id=4229467203087061&widgetName=sp_atf)

Cheapest Pro I've found on Amazon is £270 Here (https://www.amazon.co.uk/Creality-Removable-Certified-220x220x250mm-Printing/dp/B07PJQNNGP/ref=sr_1_7?dchild=1&keywords=ender+3&qid=1589462241&sr=8-7)

Total cost £324.  Plus the cost of a fan which I will get once it's arrived and I've looked into it more.

Advice on good filament so I can order some at the same time much appreciated.

Thanks  (will also look at other UK stockists to see if they have printer cheaper)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=991254;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=991258;image)   These "vibration dampers" are NOT intended for that purpose; they are CNC manufacturing hardware that the 3DP community has completely misunderstood the purpose of. It was invented to provide self-alignment functionality on stepper motors with 1-piece integral leadscrew. If used with a flex coupler, it allows the entire assembly to deflect under load, causing lost precision & repeatability and the ringing Jeroen3 referred to. Plus, they really make very little difference in noise factor on a properly set up linear actuator.

There's a reason CReality uses a solid coupler with just a slot to allow a few microns of flex; that is all that is needed, and it keeps the layer accuracy/repeatability very high. Adding those rubber mounts will only serve to defeat that design, while also adding offset that you'll have to adjust for.

The Trinamic drivers (and correctly setting the drive current) are really all that is needed to quiet the steppers to a very family-friendly level; where you're going to have noise issues is with the fans. They are NOT family-friendly, especially the 30mm hotend fan. |O

If you're going to spend the money on a new controller, get the touchscreen too; it'll never be cheaper than in the bundle. For everyday use, it is just SO much more civilized.

That one should have a 64x128 emulation mode, so you CAN still have the old familiar UI if you need to add display items in the firmware.

Cheers,

mnem
 :-+

It was  this  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vu80vctXaxQ) youtube vid that originally made me think the dampers were a good idea

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 16, 2020, 10:13:11 pm
"Lipstick on a pig", IMHO.  ;) Trinamic drivers adjusted to correct current FTW.  :-+

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 17, 2020, 10:26:47 am
Hey @mnementh you want a sleeving project  :palm: @Brumby could box it up and send it to you for a few sheckles  :-DD eBay auction: #323516128642 I reckon offers of over $1 should be considered generous.....

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/y9wAAOSwhu9b0PvZ/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on May 17, 2020, 01:12:42 pm
"Everything is assembled. Assembling is the most difficult part. It cost me more than 20 hours due to insufficient instructions on the manual. You won't able to built it without watching YouTube. The most tricky part is the base wobbling and incorrectly install power cable. I have done these for you."

Somehow I'm not getting a good vibe here ... especially when there is no indication it has ever printed anything.  I would not expect any sane person would even try printing with it in such a state.

The good part is that it's right in Dave's local neighbourhood.  That also means it's not all that far from me geographically, but not financially.  The asking price is somewhat hopeful.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on May 17, 2020, 01:39:13 pm
Hey @mnementh you want a sleeving project  :palm: @Brumby could box it up and send it to you for a few sheckles  :-DD eBay auction: #323516128642

Yep.  Happy to oblige.   :D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 17, 2020, 03:08:42 pm
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/a910a9acc27c7b4bac1085bd52afa28f/tenor.gif?itemid=5206303)

No.... seriously; I'd give $20 (Canadian ;)) for the dual-Z parts. The rest... scrap. :palm: Knockoff Titan (Okay, maybe $10 there ::)), OEM controller, still acrylic everything... and 1st gen Tarantula, so still just regular 8040 extrusion, not proper OpenBuilds-type V-slot.  :palm:

I mean, you could use the extrusion to start building something with linear slides... but you'd need 2 kits worth of extrusion AND the drilling jigs/taps for 90° end-joints. A LOT easier to start with something that has proper geometry to begin with. |O

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=938592;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on May 18, 2020, 12:38:13 am
I still can't get over the state in which it has been presented.  Seriously, if you want to sell something for $800, you should at least make an attempt at looking like it's a functional printer that is worth something.

Using that seller's logic, I could offer a box of various 3 year old items tossed in and ask retail.


Not gonna happen.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 18, 2020, 03:02:12 am
Well, there is the possibility that he actually is high on crack...

mnem
 :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 18, 2020, 03:10:21 am
The more likely case is just NFI. I paid less than the BIN price landed for my CR-10S in mid 2018 so clearly zero thought into what is available now and what a now technically dated abomination looks like to a potential buyer. Based on what else has been around recently in Oz maybe at a real stretch $2-300 maybe but $800 is  :bullshit:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 18, 2020, 03:33:55 am
It’s literally worth the value of the bed plate, stepper motors and extruder.

The controller is a prehistoric RAMPS clone with soldered A4988s. The hotend is a horrible Mk6 clone everybody immediately printed a bracket to replace with a cheap V6 clone. The rollers were cheap, and they didn’t last long on the non-V-slot extrusion. Oh, wait. There ARE a couple 40mm fans worth what... $2 each...?

Seriously. I half suspect the listing is a gag, or to torment someone.

mnem
 :wtf:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on May 18, 2020, 04:01:35 am
The more likely case is just NFI.

Agreed.

Seriously. I half suspect the listing is a gag, or to torment someone.

Not impossible - but I'm with Bean on the probability.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tom66 on May 18, 2020, 07:16:13 am
My Anet A8 Plus was a "bit" of a pain to wire together, but overall, I would say not that hard, and it looked pretty comparable to that Tarantula when I started and now looks a bit like the user manual.  There were no guides for how to neaten the wiring but they provide some cable organisers and cable ties, I'm pretty sure even a trained monkey could manage to make it look a little neater.  I, too, sense NFI.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 19, 2020, 12:51:21 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqb4wHA3FKI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wqb4wHA3FKI)

That POS Tarantula has enjoyed entirely too much free rent in my head. Time for something to take our minds off it.  :-+

mnem
*building bicycles*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 19, 2020, 01:56:52 am
$129 USD worth of Cuteness? 75x75x75 volume unheated bed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzS4ZYAq6LQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzS4ZYAq6LQ)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tom66 on May 19, 2020, 08:18:03 am
Latest 3D print.  Inspired by @tautech (though certainly not on the same level!) I 3D printed a stand for my GW PSP-603 power supply so I could put my hot air and soldering iron station below it. It's printed in blue AmazonBasics PETG, and supporting about 10kg of equipment.

[attach=3]

This was a good experiment in using Fusion 360 to create a honeycomb mesh to improve the tensile strength of the upper table.  I preferred this to filling with a solid plane as the print time and filament usage would be extraordinary otherwise. It used about 200g of filament so cost around GBP£4.

The solid parts are printed with 30% infill and the legs are hollowed out. The stiffness is impressive, though the legs are just friction fit in.

I plan to modify this further to add clips for the hotair pieces which are presently stuck on the top of the station.  And no I'm not worried about the heat as I let the wand cool down before it gets near anything plastic.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 19, 2020, 10:38:08 am
No good here most of my Front Bench toys are too heavy  ;)

Today's Fusion work in progress is a modified Laser Final mirror and Lens holder for my current little 40W one. The stock one has some known geometry issues and a lack of Lens options so this is a hybrid to use bigger Lenses and fix the geometry.

Two 3D printed parts and an Aluminium plate for the Belt and Cable Drag Train. Printing it will be the easy bit  :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jay_Diddy_B on May 19, 2020, 12:39:39 pm
No good here most of my Front Bench toys are too heavy  ;)

Today's Fusion work in progress is a modified Laser Final mirror and Lens holder for my current little 40W one. The stock one has some known geometry issues and a lack of Lens options so this is a hybrid to use bigger Lenses and fix the geometry.

Two 3D printed parts and an Aluminium plate for the Belt and Cable Drag Train. Printing it will be the easy bit  :)

Interesting project.

How do you print the 'optical cube' to ensure that this angle is 45o?

[attachimg=1]

Or does it matter?

I would be interested to see which orientation you print the part.

Thanks!!

Jay_Diddy_B
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on May 19, 2020, 12:45:18 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=987466;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=987484;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=987462;image)

Thanks, bean!  :-+

mnem
squeeee!


http://www.yqcomputer.com/213_1146_3.htm#p41 (http://www.yqcomputer.com/213_1146_3.htm#p41)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 19, 2020, 01:04:35 pm
No good here most of my Front Bench toys are too heavy  ;)

Today's Fusion work in progress is a modified Laser Final mirror and Lens holder for my current little 40W one. The stock one has some known geometry issues and a lack of Lens options so this is a hybrid to use bigger Lenses and fix the geometry.

Two 3D printed parts and an Aluminium plate for the Belt and Cable Drag Train. Printing it will be the easy bit  :)

Interesting project.

How do you print the 'optical cube' to ensure that this angle is 45o?

(Attachment Link)

Or does it matter?

I would be interested to see which orientation you print the part.

Thanks!!

Jay_Diddy_B

The main block will print as shown base down without supports and doesn't need them as all the angles are under 45 degrees and the tops of the holes will bridge fine based on other similar structures (most likely go with 0.1mm layers to help).

What isn't shown that well and I haven't added them yet is the three knurlnuts that the three mirror adjustment screws go into (EDIT found a better shot of my Laser). The 45 only needs to be in the ballpark due to the adjustment available. So I will be reusing the Aluminium Mirror holder, partly to dump the small amount of heat the mirror losses will cause and also 'it exists'  ;)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jay_Diddy_B on May 19, 2020, 02:30:44 pm

What isn't shown that well and I haven't added them yet is the three knurlnuts that the three mirror adjustment screws go into (EDIT found a better shot of my Laser). The 45 only needs to be in the ballpark due to the adjustment available.

So I will be reusing the Aluminium Mirror holder, partly to dump the small amount of heat the mirror losses will cause and also 'it exists'  ;)


Thanks for the explanation. I thought you would need a screwup adjusting mechanism  :D

Jay_Diddy_B
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 19, 2020, 05:32:44 pm
Yay, it's fully assembled.

First two attempts at bed levelling  didn't go so good.  But on my third it was almost perfect (in my eyes) see attached pic.

Bottom left (where the home position is) isn't perfect, , but the bed adjuster there feels very loose when the bed is level.   I think I'll look into stronger springs.

Now for a few tests





Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 19, 2020, 05:53:41 pm
hmm my next test isn't going so well

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 19, 2020, 08:25:43 pm
It's supposed to look like this

[attachimg=1]

but ended up looking like

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 19, 2020, 08:52:58 pm
Did it come loose? That would definitely be a bed adhesion problem.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 19, 2020, 09:14:25 pm
no, was stuck to the bed until it finished
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 20, 2020, 12:04:15 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=987466;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=987484;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=987462;image)

Thanks, bean!  :-+

mnem
squeeee!

http://www.yqcomputer.com/213_1146_3.htm#p41 (http://www.yqcomputer.com/213_1146_3.htm#p41)

Thanks for the link, Z... I knew I'd read that before. I spent ridiculous amounts of time trying to find that quote AGAIN and gave up only reluctantly, being as I actually quoted it when we discussed the SoW in the TEA thread a couple years ago. |O

mnem
Am a wise dwagon yet...?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 20, 2020, 12:25:36 am
no, was stuck to the bed until it finished

A guess but look carefully at the point (layer) is started to go wrong the pics are a bit low rez to tell but it looks to have had a layer shift on one axis? What you are looking for is a definite deviation in the vertical walls of the print well below the eventual failure. Given the fine detail of the top end of that test some of the print is then being printed on air which then led to the towers falling over and your FIRST (there will be more  :-DD ) visit from the spaghetti monster
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 20, 2020, 12:49:45 am
hmm my next test isn't going so well (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=94559.0;attach=994998;image)

Looks like your hotend temp is way out to lunch, or maybe your extruder is skipping. Get you a temp tower; this is a good one, and the author includes the gcode already sliced for E3: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3912855 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3912855)

Here's another: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3329956 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3329956)

Don't slice the STL, just copy the gcode file to your SD card & print it; a temp tower requires post-code that makes the hotend change temp at given intervals. These folks kindly posted their E3 optimized gcodes so you wouldn't have to figure that sh..tuff out first day of printing. :-+

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=995155;image)   Third likely possibility is you don't have the Bowden tube seated properly or sealed in the throat of the heat-break tube and it's generating mini-clogs. You're supposed to unscrew the pneumatic fitting a couple turns out from all the way tight, press the Bowden tube all the way down inside the hotend, then tighten the fitting so it seals and locks the Bowden tube in place. Also, you have to make sure the cut end in the hotend is cut perfectly square for it to seal properly; usually the kit will come with at least one end of the tube cut square for you.

This cross-section above should help you visualize the seal you're trying to make; you're looking at the covalent area between the PTFE tube and the metal throat of the hotend.



mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 20, 2020, 12:58:03 am
Oh, and lastly... if that's the filament that came with the thing, try known-good filament you bought yourself. The "freebie" filament is usually worth EXACTLY what you paid for it.  :-DD

mnem
*puttin' on my flame-proof jammies for when bean and Monkeh come along to correct my 50% noob suggestions*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 20, 2020, 01:01:28 am
Just had a closer look at this photo and blew it up a bit. You either don't have any or sufficient retraction looking at the loops between the lower towers.

What Slicer are you using?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 20, 2020, 06:54:24 am
I used Cura.

But all I did was select my printer and slice it. I didn’t alter anything
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 20, 2020, 07:11:05 am
The whisps of plastic between the lower towers would be characteristic of a lack of retraction or possibly some oozing due to a high temperature for the filament in use.

I don't use Cura but have a hunt around in the Advanced Printer settings and make sure you have 2-3mm of retraction set. Also assuming the temperature is somewhere close I run 205 for the first layer then 200C for PLA from there on up so if you have 220C for example reduce it.

So process of elimination start at the ground floor then work your way up  ;)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 20, 2020, 08:03:13 am
I picked Cura at random. 

What program do you guys use?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 20, 2020, 08:16:32 am
Initially I went with what was then sli3er https://slic3r.org/ (https://slic3r.org/) and then more recently to PrusaSlicer (derived from sli3er) https://www.prusa3d.com/prusaslicer/ (https://www.prusa3d.com/prusaslicer/) I am still running 2.1 but I see 2.2 is now out so I should upgrade it and see what is new.

I did re install Cura for another look fairly recently but wasn't overwhelmed or see anything I needed from it so I stuck with Prusa which is being very actively developed. No right or wrong with any of them there is a few others worth a look but  :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tom66 on May 20, 2020, 08:31:20 am
I find PrusaSlicer to work very well.  But  you will have to create your own print profile as it only ships with native support for the Prusa printers.  No difficulty in doing that but be prepared to make many test prints.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tom66 on May 20, 2020, 08:44:32 am
Yay, it's fully assembled.

First two attempts at bed levelling  didn't go so good.  But on my third it was almost perfect (in my eyes) see attached pic.

Bottom left (where the home position is) isn't perfect, , but the bed adjuster there feels very loose when the bed is level.   I think I'll look into stronger springs.

Now for a few tests

My experience with manual bed levelling is you don't want to go anywhere near "loose" on the adjusters because the vibration from the printer will shake them even further loose, which will cause the level to shift over time. If you find any are loose you want to try adjusting your Z-offset in software or moving your Z-limit switch/probe instead.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 20, 2020, 08:44:46 am
It is fairly easy to add other printers. For what it is worth my Ender Pro Config is in the Zip for Prusaslicer even coming from sli3er I just exported my config and imported into Prusa.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 20, 2020, 09:39:41 am
Yay, it's fully assembled.

First two attempts at bed levelling  didn't go so good.  But on my third it was almost perfect (in my eyes) see attached pic.

Bottom left (where the home position is) isn't perfect, , but the bed adjuster there feels very loose when the bed is level.   I think I'll look into stronger springs.

Now for a few tests

My experience with manual bed levelling is you don't want to go anywhere near "loose" on the adjusters because the vibration from the printer will shake them even further loose, which will cause the level to shift over time. If you find any are loose you want to try adjusting your Z-offset in software or moving your Z-limit switch/probe instead.

Thanks.  I’ll have to cut the tab on the bottom of the switch bracket to move it down a couple of mm.

Got new springs arriving tomorrow,  but obviously want to print today.  I’ll have a play.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 20, 2020, 09:41:18 am
I’ll try the PrusaSlicer.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 20, 2020, 01:56:11 pm
The whisps of plastic between the lower towers would be characteristic of a lack of retraction or possibly some oozing due to a high temperature for the filament in use.

I don't use Cura but have a hunt around in the Advanced Printer settings and make sure you have 2-3mm of retraction set. Also assuming the temperature is somewhere close I run 205 for the first layer then 200C for PLA from there on up so if you have 220C for example reduce it.

So process of elimination start at the ground floor then work your way up  ;)

The default E3 profile in Cura runs PLA at 200°/200° with bed at 50° and it has a  roughly calibrated retraction profile for both normal print and for bridging modes that works well out of the box; it's better than the profile made for my Diggro.  :palm: For JUST BEGINNING, I recommend Cura as it has the most community support for E3.

Recent versions of Cura have streamlined the options dropdown a bit; you'll have to go into Settings/Configure Settings Visibility to toggle Bridging Mode settings on; you want this for this test print.

Again, I also recommend printing a temp tower first, if you've eliminated all the first-build gotchas I outlined in my first post. If the Bowden tube isn't sealed/locked down properly, it will totally screw up the retraction; this attracts the flying spaghetti monster like 5-year-olds to cake & ice cream. ;)

Like bean said... start from the ground up; but I certainly wouldn't go switching horses in mid-stream with a new slicer when Cura is the E3 community favorite hands down (for beginners) with proven good results from the default E3 profile. :-//

As far as the bed leveling; you want to start out with ~3-4mm of thread showing under the nuts, as close to equal height as possible by eye is plenty close enough. Set your Z-stop so the switch clicks closed just as it contacts the bed. Tighten all 4 wheel-nuts 2 turns (CCW), then start a 5-point bed leveling like this one:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EfWVUJjBdA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EfWVUJjBdA)

I use a 3M Post-It for bed leveling; get the good ones that are a little thicker (thick enough you can't see through them, notebook paper is too thin) along with his gcode for the 5-point leveling. Fold the sticky part of the post-it over itself; this keeps it from fouling anything, and it gives you a good handle. Use the main body of the Post-It under the nozzle, not the folded-over part.

First I do the leveling cold, then a second round where I heat up the bed and nozzle to operating temp. Just like he does with his sticker, you adjust the level up so you can feel drag on the paper, but just loose enough that you can still PUSH the paper towards the nozzle without it buckling. If it buckles, you're too tight.

Recently, as I've gotten used to my printer (annoyingly, it turns the hotend/bed off during the leveling routine), I've found that leveling it cold, then loosen (this "tightens" the gap) 1/4 turn on all 4 bed wheels gets it pretty close to dead-nuts every time. Run Chuck's spiral print pattern for fine-tuning and you'll be golden. :-+

mnem
(https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/coffee_L.gif)



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 20, 2020, 02:42:37 pm
Oddly enough, I found and followed that exact youtube vid on levelling earlier :)

The squares printed perfectly after levelling.

I did check everything before giving it another go. 

This time I tried one of the Temp Towers you linked to yesterday, using their gcode. I've just finished printing it. To me I think it's come out extremely well  (this is the first thing I've printed since my disaster yesterday), I obviously screwed up with Cura yesterday (used default, didn't turn on bridging etc).

Here's a few pics

Many many thanks everyone



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 20, 2020, 08:08:07 pm
It's always a bit hard judging things from a picture, but it looks like your printer does great on lower temperatures with this filament.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 20, 2020, 10:43:12 pm
Looks like 185-190 is your sweet spot with this filament.  :-+

Try a bridging test to see how well your extrusion and layer cooling are cooperating: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:476845/files (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:476845/files)

This is the one I've been using to torture my printer and annoy my son (finished print makes a great indoor-safe projectile): https://cdn.thingiverse.com/assets/52/08/6f/5d/08/Bridging_Test_50.stl (https://cdn.thingiverse.com/assets/52/08/6f/5d/08/Bridging_Test_50.stl)

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 21, 2020, 03:10:36 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=995460;image)

I think maybe they've hit their stretch goals.  :-DD

Really surprised people didn't just swarm the $339 bracket; If I hadn't gotten in where I did, I'd damn sure pay an extra $20 to NOT be in the "I get to wait an extra month on top of the already 3 months wait" bracket.  |O

mnem
I wonder if that 20-pack comes with free Egg Roll...?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 21, 2020, 01:12:21 pm
Looks like 185-190 is your sweet spot with this filament.  :-+

Try a bridging test to see how well your extrusion and layer cooling are cooperating: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:476845/files (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:476845/files)

This is the one I've been using to torture my printer and annoy my son (finished print makes a great indoor-safe projectile): https://cdn.thingiverse.com/assets/52/08/6f/5d/08/Bridging_Test_50.stl (https://cdn.thingiverse.com/assets/52/08/6f/5d/08/Bridging_Test_50.stl)

mnem
 :-/O

Thanks, but against your earlier advice, I used the filament that came with it (my reasoning was to get something that at least stayed in place etc before using stuff I bought)

So today I repeated the test with my bought filament, I also did the other temp test while I was at it. 

Pics below.

Next I'm going to try your bridging test (as soon as I've finished watching a few YouTube on slicing)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 21, 2020, 02:11:28 pm
Good plan. I was suggesting you try known-good filament at least as a test, to eliminate the filament as the vector for your curly-hair infection.:-DD  "Quality will vary" is le mot du jour with "free" filament. ;)

My experience is that almost ANY PLA filament can be made to print successfully, as long as it isn't so brittle it breaks as it unrolls. It's just a matter of how much of the roll you use up before you find the correct settings, and how much of your own time are you willing to spend figuring it out. :-//

mnem
(https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/coffee_L.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 21, 2020, 02:42:04 pm
Around 210/215C looks about on the money - as is typical for most PLAs these days.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 21, 2020, 04:06:49 pm
So I've had interesting fun.  Following on from previous posts, I ended up with both PrusaSlicer and Cura on my PC.

So I sliced the bridging test mnementh linked to, on both of them :)

So first I tried slicing with PrusaSlicer, was stringy from the start and within a very short time I ended up with a spaghetti monster (see first pic).

I then printed the Cura one and its turned out almost perfect (see other pics)

I think my main problem is learning the software.

Thanks all

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 21, 2020, 04:18:38 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=958054;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=958668;image)

That looks good, but the proof of the pudding on that test is what the bottom looks like. You're looking for tight, flat threads with no sagging, stringing or "pinches" at the ends like you can see in these examples. Ideally, they will have good layer bonding starting with the first layer, though that CAN be hard to achieve.



Around 210/215C looks about on the money - as is typical for most PLAs these days.

I was thinking 195-200 on the 2nd sample, as long as layer adhesion is good. What are you seeing that I'm not? Seriously; I'm looking to learn here. :-//

When I upgraded to the CReality hotend, I found I had to dial the heat down (that was when I had the hairy mess printing my 'Fang) from the default 205° in the recommended AlfaWise profile. I assume that has to do with the sock on the heater block improving heat transfer to the filament...?

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on May 21, 2020, 04:33:53 pm
As you are learning, 3D printing is heavily dependent on process control, and therefore rewards careful experiment and record keeping.  Keep a notebook with information each print (settings, orientation, room temp, filament including brand and other info, software and so on), with what the failures and successes were.  The answers will be different for different filament types and also for different part shapes.  Once you have success, stick with that recipe until you have need to change. 

One obvious reason for change is when you change filament types.  Unless you have a very unusual memory the notebook is a lifesaver when you change back to a previous filament type.

There can be very subtle problems.  One case I am fighting right now is a knob that I print in quantity.  Single knobs print perfectly.  But if I print six at once, one of the six obviously is printed too hot and sags on one side.  The other five are perfect.  Still working that one out.  There are simple solutions, such as commanding it to print serially instead of simultaneously, but I am going for understanding not just results and am not there yet.

Software is a surprisingly important place to look.  I have had several oops moments recently because the STL export from my CAD program included construction artifacts that weren't apparent in the model as displayed.  The print was actually a perfectly correct implementation of the STL, it just wasn't what I had modeled.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 21, 2020, 04:57:38 pm
Yeah, I've found that Fusion in particular has made great strides in their "autopatching" or whatever they call the process whereby it automatically repairs extruded/pushed/pulled faces into a single homogeneous body without voids. It can be infuriating when it refuses to do fillets the way you ask, but at least it usually doesn't create one-sided walls or delete half the model in the attempt like it used to. The horrifying part (at least to me) is that as aggravating as Fusion is, it is STILL more accessible to my mind, by at least a factor of 10, than anything else I've tried. :-\

As a result, the one part of 3DP that keeps me from falling too deep down the rabbit-hole is having to argue with the CAD program every time I start a project; everything else in the process feels much more organic and of a linear progression. :-// Knowing that I'll inevitably spend at least 30 minutes (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=693381;image) because the software is having a screaming case of the "NO!!!"s does tend to make me evaluate my 3DP projects with much greater clarity and an eye to "Do I really NEED to make this...?" BEFORE I begin.  :-DD

mnem
 :blah:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 21, 2020, 05:37:30 pm
Yeah, I've found that Fusion in particular has made great strides in their "autopatching" or whatever they call the process whereby it automatically repairs extruded/pushed/pulled faces into a single homogeneous body without voids. It can be infuriating when it refuses to do fillets the way you ask, but at least it usually doesn't create one-sided walls or delete half the model in the attempt like it used to. The horrifying part (at least to me) is that as aggravating as Fusion is, it is STILL more accessible to my mind, by at least a factor of 10, than anything else I've tried. :-\

As a result, the one part of 3DP that keeps me from falling too deep down the rabbit-hole is having to argue with the CAD program every time I start a project; everything else in the process feels much more organic and of a linear progression. :-// Knowing that I'll inevitably spend at least 30 minutes (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=693381;image) because the software is having a screaming case of the "NO!!!"s does tend to make me evaluate my 3DP projects with much greater clarity and an eye to "Do I really NEED to make this...?" BEFORE I begin.  :-DD

mnem
 :blah:
CAD and EDA generally require learning the many quirks of that specific application. They all seem to have this and it is what tends to eat up your time, at least until you get proficient. You'll need to deal with non obvious consequences of the underlying programming in pretty much all of them and it's different every time.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 21, 2020, 05:51:49 pm
Bottom doesn't look too bad (not saying it's anywhere near perfect though)

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]



I'm still struggling printing the first disaster I had, not sure what Cura setting I'm missing, just tried again and stopped it due to this

[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]

The file I'm trying to print is here https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2975429 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2975429)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 21, 2020, 05:54:59 pm
What filament are you using?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 21, 2020, 05:58:59 pm
AMZ3D 

https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01E1XKLIC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B01E1XKLIC/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o09_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 21, 2020, 06:03:40 pm
Around 210/215C looks about on the money - as is typical for most PLAs these days.

I was thinking 195-200 on the 2nd sample, as long as layer adhesion is good. What are you seeing that I'm not? Seriously; I'm looking to learn here. :-//

The increased resistance to flow at the lower temperatures causes the small pointed tower to under-extrude a little (it's not much on those photos, though). Also you get reduced layer adhesion and, IME, a little more sag on the bridging (angle in the photos can make this deceptive though) as the first layer sags from the heat of the next layer going onto it. You'd think printing hotter makes that worse, but it sticks better, so if you have adequate cooling it seems to come out better.

What's really interesting, and very hard to get photos of, is the difference in appearance with temperature and cooling. That can be fun to play with. Generally cooler gives you a matte finish, hotter glossy.

If in doubt, print a little hotter, IME.

I'm still struggling printing the first disaster I had, not sure what Cura setting I'm missing, just tried again and stopped it due to this

Haha (sorry, laughing with, not at), now I see the problem.

You're not meant to print that on its side! You're extruding into open air. Get the bottom on the build plate and you'll be fine.

AMZ3D is.. not great filament, sadly. From Amazon I'd suggest eSun (sadly thoroughly out of stock currently), Prima, and maybe the latest line of AmazonBasics (I haven't tried the new stuff, though).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 21, 2020, 07:08:48 pm
All the recommended filament was out of stock, hence got something so that I can at least play with my new printer.

On it's side lol, I can see why you're laughing.  I just presumed that loading the stl into Cura would show it the right way up :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 21, 2020, 07:59:19 pm
Around 210/215C looks about on the money - as is typical for most PLAs these days.

I was thinking 195-200 on the 2nd sample, as long as layer adhesion is good. What are you seeing that I'm not? Seriously; I'm looking to learn here. :-//

The increased resistance to flow at the lower temperatures causes the small pointed tower to under-extrude a little (it's not much on those photos, though). Also you get reduced layer adhesion and, IME, a little more sag on the bridging (angle in the photos can make this deceptive though) as the first layer sags from the heat of the next layer going onto it. You'd think printing hotter makes that worse, but it sticks better, so if you have adequate cooling it seems to come out better.

What's really interesting, and very hard to get photos of, is the difference in appearance with temperature and cooling. That can be fun to play with. Generally cooler gives you a matte finish, hotter glossy.

If in doubt, print a little hotter, IME.
Hmmm... when I was playing with it hotter, I had first layer adhesion problems that drove me batty. I also had broken threads in the first layers of the bridge like HobGoblyn does.  True, I'm still using the clone Build-Tak that came on my glass plate.  I suppose it's time to to install the clone UltraBase and see what happens... might behave better with the E3 hotend and Fang on there now. :-//

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=995630;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=995628;image)   Do you know any straightforward cause & effect type tuning guides on setting up the layer cooling speed? Max vs Regular fan speeds, and how to tell what effects you'll see with higher/lower fan speeds and how you know when you've got them right?

I'd also like to get similar a handle on the advanced Bridge Mode settings; it seems anything I change in there from the default E3 profile either does nothing that I can tell or just calls the suck and makes the print implode.  :P

Cura is pretty good about giving a description in a hover-dialog for every setting; problem is a lot of the terms they refer to don't mean anything to me yet, and everything I find online is just the same basic infill/wall/skin thickness/adhesion settings over and over from different people... nobody seems to have any interest in doing a step-by-step for this stuff.  |O

mnem
moo?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 21, 2020, 08:09:10 pm
All the recommended filament was out of stock, hence got something so that I can at least play with my new printer. On it's side lol, I can see why you're laughing.  I just presumed that loading the stl into Cura would show it the right way up :)

Oh, duh... we can see that it's on its side in the very first pic of the print fail you posted; I just skimmed straight past that to the Sghetti Monster pics...  :palm:

Bet your next one is a lot better!  :-DD

Another vote for Amazon Basics PLA/PLA+. Consistently decent, no surprises good or bad. :-+

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 21, 2020, 08:12:48 pm
Do you know any straightforward cause & effect type tuning guides on setting up the layer cooling speed? Max vs Regular fan speeds, and how to tell what effects you'll see with higher/lower fan speeds and how you know when you've got them right?

No particular guides, but as far as fan speed goes: If you're losing layer adhesion or getting lots of fine hairy stringing (you may find this hard to notice with a bowden system.. there's a reason I do direct drive, direct drive, and that delta thing in the corner I haven't used this year), you've got too much cooling. If your overhangs and bridges are drooping, more cooling may be needed (alternatively, a change in temperature, extrusion ratio, or speed..).

Quote
I'd also like to get similar a handle on the advanced Bridge Mode settings; it seems anything I change in there from the default E3 profile either does nothing that I can tell or just calls the suck and makes the print implode.  :P

Cura is pretty good about giving a description in a hover-dialog for every setting; problem is a lot of the terms they refer to don't mean anything to me yet, and everything I find online is just the same basic infill/wall/skin thickness/adhesion settings over and over from different people... nobody seems to have any interest in doing a step-by-step for this stuff.

I don't use Cura, so I'm of no help there.

Another vote for Amazon Basics PLA/PLA+. Consistently decent, no surprises good or bad. :-+

Bear in mind they recently (in the last year or so) changed manufacturer after dumping the previous (Overture) for being horribly inconsistent. The only stuff I've used from them is what little Overture got over here - and those were okay. YMMV. No idea who's manufacturing it now.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 21, 2020, 08:53:23 pm
All the recommended filament was out of stock, hence got something so that I can at least play with my new printer.

On it's side lol, I can see why you're laughing.  I just presumed that loading the stl into Cura would show it the right way up :)
Cura always imports it in the wrong orientation. Until you start depending on it, that is.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 21, 2020, 10:23:06 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QRb54zVPfQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QRb54zVPfQ)   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tCxO17XZtw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tCxO17XZtw)

mnem
*fuzzy*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 22, 2020, 03:43:21 am
For no good reason at all other than I haven't done it before  >:D 3D printed PLA Laser Vector Engraved with 3-8px Text and an Acrylic one for comparison. Font Sizes are 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12, 16, 20 & 30.

Semi Failed Bed Adhesion issue from way back gave it's life for this test  ;)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 22, 2020, 04:09:00 am
bean’s delivery of amphibious sharks must be late... he had to find something ELSE to do with his laser packs.  :-DD

mnem
“It’s not technically a fiasco unless someone catches on fire.”
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 22, 2020, 04:25:48 am
It might be a possible use case for a Diode Laser addon for a 3D printer for Electronic Panels. I do have a 1/2 Watt one skulking around but to busy to set it up for a play. The power needed s almost off the bottom end for my current 40W C02 Laser there was a small puddling issue with Test Number 1 being set at the Acrylic Power level before this one shown :-DD.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 22, 2020, 10:57:20 am
Printing the right way up certainly makes a difference :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 22, 2020, 03:25:52 pm
Printing the right way up certainly makes a difference :)

Looks pretty darn good to me.  :clap:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 22, 2020, 06:05:33 pm
 :clap:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 22, 2020, 06:12:50 pm
So I've finished my testing, now to print something else.

An armadillo pot sounds like a good choice :)

Was guessing Cura settings, support touching build plate with support overhang angle of 60,   and infill density of 10%.

Pleased with it on the whole, not enough support under his neck (hence small hole on inside), pity the lid doesn't quite fit though.  See attached pics.

I might send the other reel back (got grey and black) and get decent stuff. Might as well make use of the grey stuff while I learn Cura though

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 22, 2020, 06:50:47 pm
Yeah, that looks pretty nice. You're overextruding, hard to say if that's the printer or the slicer.

On the test print, probably not good enough cooling for the overhangs (try printing rotated a few different ways to catch the airflow differently), and some retraction-related zits and the like due to the bowden, but nothing unexpected.

Try and fix up the extrusion rate and carry on printing!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 22, 2020, 08:24:14 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=975894;image)

Or print yerself up a 'fang and make your E3 butt-uglee like mine!!! :-DD   https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2759439 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2759439)

Then get your extrusion dialed in... no sense in doing it twice. |O


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=995968;image)   https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3693474 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3693474)

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 22, 2020, 10:16:47 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=995981;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=995983;image)

Mundane print number 73: 13mm beads to repair a pair of monkey-drums my wife uses for teaching music. *yawwwwnnnn*

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 22, 2020, 10:23:53 pm
Yeah, that looks pretty nice. You're overextruding, hard to say if that's the printer or the slicer.

On the test print, probably not good enough cooling for the overhangs (try printing rotated a few different ways to catch the airflow differently), and some retraction-related zits and the like due to the bowden, but nothing unexpected.

Try and fix up the extrusion rate and carry on printing!

Thanks.  How do I tell if it’s over extruding?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 22, 2020, 10:32:03 pm
So far I’ve been using it stock. I might add my skr  mini and touch screen next
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on May 22, 2020, 10:36:30 pm
Thanks.  How do I tell if it’s over extruding?
You get extra material squished into the same space, so outside dimensions are too big and details get lost. The lid not fitting and the letters in the test getting filled up seem to both be signs of this, though it's good to test to make sure. There are very helpful guides to help you identify problems and possible causes. Note the Simplify 3D over-extrusion example is hilariously extreme.

https://www.simplify3d.com/support/print-quality-troubleshooting/ (https://www.simplify3d.com/support/print-quality-troubleshooting/)
https://www.prusa3d.com/print-quality-troubleshooting/ (https://www.prusa3d.com/print-quality-troubleshooting/)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 23, 2020, 12:28:30 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=996008;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=996006;image)   

Finished. Wife was pleased; daughter is ecstatic...  :o

mnem
"bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong-bong..."

 |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 23, 2020, 12:40:42 am
So far I’ve been using it stock. I might add my skr  mini and touch screen next.

Of course, that won't calibrate your extrusion.  :-DD

I love the touchscreen on mine, but it does have one big caveat; for daily use it's awesome... but if you want to add things to the display (my extra temp monitor for example) it is a lot more involved (you have to generate bitmaps and modify the LCD firmware with a Menu Builder dev environment) than with the stock 128x64 LCD; wherein such things can be done simply by adding a few lines in Marlin. Your Touchscreen SHOULD have a 128x64 emulation mode tho, which will make that easy if necessary for some mod or tinkery like I sometimes do. ;)

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 23, 2020, 05:44:04 pm
Since I asked in here, I have ventured forth yet again into that vast sea of shite in search of comprehensive explanations for the setting in current versions of Cura. My Google-Fu was rewarded with some lucky hits that do seem to be mostly useful information this time around. :-+

I've been reading up here: https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/sections/360003548619-Print-settings

and here: https://all3dp.com/1/cura-tutorial-software-slicer-cura-3d/

Good luck!

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 23, 2020, 06:02:16 pm
A little help installing my Bigtree touch screen please.

I've installed the SKR Mini 1.2 and have the LCD cable plunged into the new touch screen in EXT3.

The touchscreen diagram here

http://www.bigtree-tech.com/shop/product/show/id/5 (http://www.bigtree-tech.com/shop/product/show/id/5)

says to use EXT3 for CR10-LCD, if I use EXT2 nothing happens and if I use EXT1 it hangs displaying "LCD12864 simulator".  EXT3 shows "LCD12864 Simulator" for a couple of secs then boots into a green and black mono display that acts like the original display.   So I've left it in EXT3.



I'm not 100% sure where I'm supposed to plug in the TFT cable on the SKR mini.  From the pics on here

http://www.bigtree-tech.com/shop/product/show/id/6 (http://www.bigtree-tech.com/shop/product/show/id/6)

the wiring diagram doesn't mention the touch screen cable.  I presume it plugs into TFT but it can go either way.

I'm done for the day, beer calls, so I wont reply until tomorrow, but any help greatly recieved.

Thanks
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 23, 2020, 06:59:59 pm

says to use EXT3 for CR10-LCD, ...

I have the same setup. EXT3 is correct. You have a choice of interfaces - either the mono display or the touch screen. You can choose by holding down the control knob for a few seconds, then use the knob to select which interface you desire.

Be aware - my touch screen did not function until I changed the serial port settings in Configuration.h in the Marlin software and re-built the firmware as shown below. Hope you don't have to ...  :P


/**
 * Select the serial port on the board to use for communication with the host.
 * This allows the connection of wireless adapters (for instance) to non-default port pins.
 * Note: The first serial port (-1 or 0) will always be used by the Arduino bootloader.
 *
 * :[-1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7]
 */
#define SERIAL_PORT -1

/**
 * Select a secondary serial port on the board to use for communication with the host.
 * This allows the connection of wireless adapters (for instance) to non-default port pins.
 * Serial port -1 is the USB emulated serial port, if available.
 *
 * :[-1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7]
 */
#define SERIAL_PORT_2 2
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 23, 2020, 07:17:26 pm
If you want their fancy touch interface you need to use the port on the display marked 'RS232', which connects to the TFT header on the SKR.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 23, 2020, 09:54:14 pm
Doesn't he have to upgrade to Marlin 2.0.x for the 32-bit SKR? Pretty sure the E3s all come with 1.1.9x or 1.1.8x... and I see nothing newer than 1.1.6.x on their downloads section.
I'm not too sanguine about dumping a ground-up build/compile of Marlin in a completely new IDE (PlatformIO) on a relative noob(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=971254;image); seems a terrible trick to play on the guy. Of course, if someone has precompiled binaries they can lay on teh HobGoblyn it should be relatively simple to at least get his machine to a "signs of life" starting point...

mnem
time to drop back & punt...

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 23, 2020, 10:06:33 pm
The SKR Mini E3 comes with a pre-compiled Marlin build already configured for the Ender 3, as it's supposed to be drop-in.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 23, 2020, 10:56:20 pm
The SKR Mini E3 comes with a pre-compiled Marlin build already configured for the Ender 3, as it's supposed to be drop-in.

Yes that's true. I only used the board with that firmware for my initial warm fuzzy, then I moved on to experimenting with Marlin 2.0. I then later got the touch screen and had to muck around with the port settings.

So yes the touch screen may very well work with that firmware as is. I'm just reporting what I had to do later, in case anyone else reading may want to try it.  :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 23, 2020, 10:58:09 pm
If you want their fancy touch interface you need to use the port on the display marked 'RS232', which connects to the TFT header on the SKR.

Which way around on the TFT header, it can go either way.

EDIT: found YouTube vid that shows which way round it goes, see from 5:00

 https://youtu.be/l1Putn10_Ek (https://youtu.be/l1Putn10_Ek)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 23, 2020, 11:41:02 pm
The SKR Mini E3 comes with a pre-compiled Marlin build already configured for the Ender 3, as it's supposed to be drop-in.

Yes that's true. I only used the board with that firmware for my initial warm fuzzy, then I moved on to experimenting with Marlin 2.0. I then later got the touch screen and had to muck around with the port settings.

So yes the touch screen may very well work with that firmware as is. I'm just reporting what I had to do later, in case anyone else reading may want to try it.  :)

Aaah, okay. So the poor guy isn't just left to his own devices to get it up & running. Good. :-+

What are they using... one of the "unofficial" 32-bit builds of 1.1.9 or somesuch on the SKR Mini E3...?

What IDE are you working in with Marlin 2.0.x...? PlatformIO, or one of the STMduino IDEs for a familiar workspace...?


mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 23, 2020, 11:56:13 pm
If you want their fancy touch interface you need to use the port on the display marked 'RS232', which connects to the TFT header on the SKR.

Which way around on the TFT header, it can go either way.

EDIT: found YouTube vid that shows which way round it goes, see from 5:00

 https://youtu.be/l1Putn10_Ek (https://youtu.be/l1Putn10_Ek)

Yeah... okay. That's the video I was thinking of when I said your TS had emulation mode.  :-+ I tried to find it for you a couple times but alas, my Gurrgle-Fu was weak. Glad you were able to find it yourself!

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 24, 2020, 12:01:55 am
What are they using... one of the "unofficial" 32-bit builds of 1.1.9 or somesuch on the SKR Mini E3...?

You know I don't know, I just ran it a few times with what came with it and moved on.

Quote
What IDE are you working in with Marlin 2.0.x...? PlatformIO, or one of the STMduino IDEs for a familiar workspace...?

VS Code. Have had pretty good luck with it compiling the firmware. A few times when the Moon was in the wrong phase it gave me mysterious errors, but most of the time it behaves.

Are you interested in getting into it?  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 24, 2020, 03:51:54 am
I’m looking ahead towards when I get my CR-6. I know it’ll be 32-bit; I want to have at least half a clue what I’m dealing with when it gets here. 

Looking at that touchscreen, it’s pretty evident my DIGGRO uses the same serial connection; I’m half tempted to buy one of those SKR Mini kits myself just to learn with. Or maybe the cheaper 3.5” V2.0 or the TFT24 touchscreen to learn about the Dev Environment they use; I see them on AliEx for like $20.

mnem
Things that make you go “Hmmmmmm...”
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 24, 2020, 11:17:07 am
OK I've followed those instructions, double checked from a few other vids and everything is wired as per instructions.

I now have my touch screen working.

However both the front and side fan on the hot end are on full power, and the fan control on the touch panel controls the main board fan lol, so I need to swap them over.  But I think one of the hot end fans will still be on permanently and I'll only get control over the other (presume the side fan)

Need to get used to it, for example, I presumed, pressing and holding the X up arrow would keep moving in the X direction, but it doesn't, I get presented with the screen where I choose between touch or normal. I have to keep tapping the up arrow.

I will swap the fan cables then do a quick vid



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 24, 2020, 11:45:49 am
OK I've followed those instructions, double checked from a few other vids and everything is wired as per instructions.

I now have my touch screen working.

However both the front and side fan on the hot end are on full power, and the fan control on the touch panel controls the main board fan lol, so I need to swap them over.  But I think one of the hot end fans will still be on permanently and I'll only get control over the other (presume the side fan)

Cool!

You can get the updated touch screen firmware here -

https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-TouchScreenFirmware

They release bug fixes all the time. I just put the latest update on last night. No need to compile anything it's ready to go. Just follow the instructions.

There's still a bug in that the part cooling fan "F0 % speed always shows "0%" when actually printing a model, but the fan is working fine. If you go into the menu and control it manually it does show the increase. The bug has been reported several times.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 24, 2020, 11:47:06 am
Here's vid

https://youtu.be/HrOuemd5gdI (https://youtu.be/HrOuemd5gdI)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 24, 2020, 01:00:10 pm
There's still a bug in that the part cooling fan "F0 % speed always shows "0%" when actually printing a model, but the fan is working fine. If you go into the menu and control it manually it does show the increase. The bug has been reported several times.

Fan speed is not reported via serial, so that's not a bug in the display.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 24, 2020, 01:26:07 pm
Fan speed is not reported via serial, so that's not a bug in the display.

Yea it looks like it's recently being reported to Marlin (7 days ago) so may be fixed soon -

https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin/pull/18013
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 24, 2020, 02:08:21 pm
So I added the new springs.  I adjusted the z switch so that it was just touching the bed with about 3mm of thread showing under each wheel.

I then did a bed level check and got it perfect.

I then ran a bed level test, got this awful noise as the head gouged into my magnetic mat, panicked on the touch screen trying to get it to stop and turned it off.

Now have a deep gouge in left hand side of mat as per pics  (pics show both sides) :(   Will go through entire process again.

Haven't updated firmware yet, that's my next job



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jeroen3 on May 24, 2020, 02:34:41 pm
No crash detection I see...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 24, 2020, 02:48:51 pm
I'm going backwards now.

If I select Merlin, I just get a green screen, only the bigtree touch side works :(

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 24, 2020, 02:56:33 pm
I'm going backwards now.

If I select Merlin, I just get a green screen, only the bigtree touch side works :(

In touch mode try Settings - screen and check the background and foreground colors (they apply to the Marlin mode screen) - they might both be green. Try changing them ...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 24, 2020, 03:01:39 pm
Yep that's what I had done lol, been going mad, re-checking all cables etc.

Thanks
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 24, 2020, 03:28:27 pm
My first guess on your crash would be that you have your Z-limit plugged in the wrong place; either plugged into a wrong port altogether, or swapped with one of the other axes. Alternately, in Marlin it could be undefined or defined to a different pin, or defined to a different switch type (NO vs NC vs optical) from your original board.

mnem
been dere, dunnat, burned da filament.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 24, 2020, 03:37:21 pm
Print where it gouged bed was done from the bigtree screen

I redid the whole moving z switch so it's just touching the bed with about 3 mm of thread showing under each bed adjustment wheel (had to move switch up a couple of mm, so don't know what went wrong first time), relevelled it again, and the test print worked fine with the Marlin software. I switched back to Bigtree, this time it tried to print at about 1cm above the bed.

Not altered the wires and it's 100% fine with Marlin.  (board was clearly marked for all the axis), but it's the sort of thing I would do :)

As I had to preheat bed and nozzle when trying test print with Bigtree, I presume it needs different gcode anyway, so maybe that was a contributing factor
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 24, 2020, 03:39:11 pm
Wait, wait, wait... when you say "Bed level Test", what do you mean...? You ran the 5-point leveling GCode, or you ran a bed leveling procedure from the touchscreen?

It's possible that TS/controller came pre-configured for BLTouch and mesh leveling; not sure what all that would do if there's no BLTouch Sensor...  :o

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 24, 2020, 04:37:42 pm
I ran 5 point gcode, when that had finished I ran level test gcode.   I ran the 5 point test about 5 times as had changed springs and it was perfect. Then ran the bed level test (which prints ever decreasing squared on the bed) and it gouged away.

It has got the BLtouch levelling on there but I didn't use that

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 24, 2020, 05:46:03 pm
I've updated the TFT firmware to BIGTREE_TFT35_V3.0.26.1

It seemed to go fine but towards the end of updating the icons, it couldn't find various icons to update.  I presumed it meant it couldn't find them on the current system hence couldn't update them, but read on.

I chose the first Copy to SD card.... NOT the Unified Menu Material Theme?

Once the update had finished, it came up with

[attachimg=1]



There is now no icon for level, but when I touch it, it now shows normal bed levelling, not the BLTouch

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]



If I select to print the test Gcode that came with the SKR/TFT package, if I put  the microSD card into the USB adaptor and plug it into the side of the TFT and select to print from it, it see's the microSD fine.  If I put the microSD into the main slot (tried powering off), as soon as I select to print from main slot, it comes up with the following and hangs.

[attachimg=4]



It worked fine before I did the update.  However the microSD card that came with the printer works totally fine both ways.

So I've put the test code in the USB adaptor and selected to print it, it comes up with

[attachimg=5]



Which seems to be saying there's nothing in that code to heat up the bed/nozzle, not a clue what this test is meant to do, so not that bothered.


and the screen behind that message looks like

[attachimg=6]



I haven't tried updating the firmware on the main board yet, maybe that would help. 

I've just retried printing the bed levelling test from the touch screen and it's come out fine (OK haven't sorted out extrusion yet and it's starting each square with a little splodge), so things seem to be improving.  Icons on screen still same as previous pic


[attachimg=7]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 24, 2020, 06:09:28 pm
Brave soul!  :-+

This kind of headache (and the fact I already have the DIGGRO) is why I decided to wait on the CR-6 instead of trying to update my hardware. "Drop-in replacement" my scaly dwagon arse!!!  ;)

Good luck, my friend... I think I'm still a bit on the noob side to be a lot of help in this particular arena. But I'll keep tuned in between episodes of the "Angus Builds Shit and busts 3DP Balls" show...  :-DD

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 24, 2020, 07:30:05 pm
Well, the SKR is drop-in.. that 'LCD' (whole computer running the printer over serial, in practical terms) is doing who knows what.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 24, 2020, 09:39:48 pm
I've updated the TFT firmware to BIGTREE_TFT35_V3.0.26.1

It seemed to go fine but towards the end of updating the icons, it couldn't find various icons to update.  I presumed it meant it couldn't find them on the current system hence couldn't update them, but read on.

I chose the first Copy to SD card.... NOT the Unified Menu Material Theme?

Once the update had finished, it came up with

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=94559.0;attach=996552;image)

That's to be expected for the SKR mini board. That option isn't available. I think you will only see that message once. I experimented with that a while back and discovered for myself that Marlin won't compile with it defined.


Just for anyone interested, here's what happens if I uncomment out that #define in Configuration_adv.h -


// Enable an emergency-command parser to intercept certain commands as they
// enter the serial receive buffer, so they cannot be blocked.
// Currently handles M108, M112, M410
// Does not work on boards using AT90USB (USBCON) processors!

#define EMERGENCY_PARSER


this is what you are greeted with -

Compiling .pio\build\STM32F103RC_btt_512K\src\src\HAL\shared\eeprom_api.cpp.o

In file included from Marlin\src\HAL\STM32F1\../../inc/MarlinConfig.h:41:0,
                 from Marlin\src\HAL\STM32F1\HAL.cpp:30:
d:\marlin-2.0.5.3\marlin\src\hal\stm32f1\inc\sanitycheck.h:29:4: error: #error "EMERGENCY_PARSER is not yet implemented for STM32F1.

Disable EMERGENCY_PARSER to continue."
   #error "EMERGENCY_PARSER is not yet implemented for STM32F1.

Disable EMERGENCY_PARSER to continue."
    ^~~~~
In file included from Marlin\src\HAL\STM32F1\../../inc/MarlinConfig.h:41:0,
                 from Marlin\src\HAL\STM32F1\HAL_SPI.cpp:35:
d:\marlin-2.0.5.3\marlin\src\hal\stm32f1\inc\sanitycheck.h:29:4: error: #error "EMERGENCY_PARSER is not yet implemented for STM32F1.

Disable EMERGENCY_PARSER to continue."
   #error "EMERGENCY_PARSER is not yet implemented for STM32F1. Disable EMERGENCY_PARSER to continue."

...

You can read about that here -

https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-TouchScreenFirmware/issues/468 (https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-TouchScreenFirmware/issues/468)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 25, 2020, 02:36:54 am
 :o

mnem
*twitch... twitch... twitcha-twitch...*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 25, 2020, 02:47:04 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfiQYRn7fBg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfiQYRn7fBg)

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 25, 2020, 11:32:42 am
:o

mnem
*twitch... twitch... twitcha-twitch...*

 :-DD

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 25, 2020, 12:50:31 pm
I'll read up on compiling and give it a go.

While I've not done it for about 15 years,  have lost count of the number of UNIX/Linux kernels I've compiled  (used to spend days installing my own custom version of Gentoo), and can also program in C, so should be able to muddle through.

I'll soon find out :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 25, 2020, 03:45:57 pm
:o

mnem
*twitch... twitch... twitcha-twitch...*

 :-DD

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=94559.0;attach=996769;image)

I would take the red pill and the blue pill and shove them both up your nose. :-DD

mnem
"Heh... now x sounds like a punchdrunk boxer when he talks..." >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 25, 2020, 03:48:16 pm
I'll read up on compiling and give it a go.

While I've not done it for about 15 years,  have lost count of the number of UNIX/Linux kernels I've compiled  (used to spend days installing my own custom version of Gentoo), and can also program in C, so should be able to muddle through.

I'll soon find out :)

*makes sign of the cross with fingers, hissing as I slowly back away...*    ;)

mnem
This is how World War Z starts...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 25, 2020, 05:00:50 pm

*makes sign of the cross with fingers, hissing as I slowly back away...*    ;)

mnem
This is how World War Z starts...

Ah come on be brave - nothing can go wrong.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 25, 2020, 05:20:19 pm
Hehe

I followed the instructions here (https://www.reddit.com/r/ender3/comments/e894j7/marlin_20x_guide_for_ender_3_using_skr_mini_e3_v12/)

First time compiling had an error due to instead of me overwriting something with 500, I added an extra number.

Second time compiling, it failed because I had a lower case "v"  24v  instead of 24V

Third time it failed with a strange adafruit error, was posting it on Reddit, when noticed the people below me had exactly the same problem, was nothing to do with me and was an easy fix, solution can be found here (https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin/issues/18081) you just change one line in platformio.ini

Forth time it compiled yay

Before updating

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]



After updating


[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]


So I'm happy I can get it to work.

Now I need to set it up perfectly :)    Now have bed levelling under Marlin (as in getting it to go to one of 4 points for traditional levelling)  but no longer have printer info.   

I will download Bigtrees version and compare with the Marlin version I got today and go from there  (but am busy tomorrow)

Beer time :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 25, 2020, 05:31:00 pm
Best of luck... you'll be the trailblazer in our little clique of noobs for now!  :-+

mnem
Nice that it isn't ME for a change... |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 25, 2020, 05:57:09 pm
Hehe   I followed the instructions here (https://www.reddit.com/r/ender3/comments/e894j7/marlin_20x_guide_for_ender_3_using_skr_mini_e3_v12/)
(SNIP)
So I'm happy I can get it to work.

Now I need to set it up perfectly :)    Now have bed levelling under Marlin (as in getting it to go to one of 4 points for traditional levelling)  but no longer have printer info.   

I will download Bigtrees version and compare with the Marlin version I got today and go from there  (but am busy tomorrow)

Beer time :)

Did you snag a copy of the installed firmware first...? Or didja just go Commando and nuke/pave, since you already have a working MB as backup...?

I actually had  more hassle getting AVRdude to connect and pull my OE firmware & flash ROM (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg3053604/#msg3053604)  than I did getting the Marlin files from Longer 4K to compile and run the printer; I was lucky. Good thing too, since I had NO WAY to fix the TS if there was some undocumented version conflict and it didn't want to play along; my MB has no EXT ports for a 128x64 LCD. :scared:

@Monkeh: I've never traced out EXT1 & EXT2... do you know what they actually are...? I'm guessing a SPI bus for the LCD and combination of multiple ADC/Multi I/O pins for the rotary encoder & peizo spkr...?

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 25, 2020, 06:23:51 pm
Hehe

I followed the instructions here (https://www.reddit.com/r/ender3/comments/e894j7/marlin_20x_guide_for_ender_3_using_skr_mini_e3_v12/)

First time compiling had an error due to instead of me overwriting something with 500, I added an extra number.

Second time compiling, it failed because I had a lower case "v"  24v  instead of 24V

Third time it failed with a strange adafruit error, was posting it on Reddit, when noticed the people below me had exactly the same problem, was nothing to do with me and was an easy fix, solution can be found here (https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin/issues/18081) you just change one line in platformio.ini

Forth time it compiled yay

Congratulations grasshopper! You have walked the path to greater 3D printer wisdom.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 25, 2020, 08:34:56 pm
I have the original firmware backed up on my pc and on the Microsd card that came with the SKR mini.

Have tried reflashing original and it works fine.

Oddly, flashing the original FIRMWARE.BIN, on completion it renames to FIRMWARE.CUR. Yet flashing the updated version, it leaves it on the microsd as .BIN
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on May 25, 2020, 08:38:53 pm
@Monkeh: I've never traced out EXT1 & EXT2... do you know what they actually are...? I'm guessing a SPI bus for the LCD and combination of multiple ADC/Multi I/O pins for the rotary encoder & peizo spkr...?

4-bit parallel + enable for the LCD, couple pins for the encoder and buzzer, SPI for an external SD, reset.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 26, 2020, 02:52:22 am
Ugggh. Not gonna be near as easy to try & pull those all out to secondary headers on the Longer MB as it was to get A15.  |O

I have the original firmware backed up on my pc and on the Microsd card that came with the SKR mini.

Have tried reflashing original and it works fine.

Oddly, flashing the original FIRMWARE.BIN, on completion it renames to FIRMWARE.CUR. Yet flashing the updated version, it leaves it on the microsd as .BIN

Oh, yeah right... not the same scenario as my DIGGRO, where I had concerns that the installed FW might not be exactly the same as what the OEM posted on their website, so I felt it necessary to pull a backup of the live FW as a last-ditch backup.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 26, 2020, 02:54:21 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIKDu9GhF6g (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIKDu9GhF6g)

Watching now. Looks like all the info I spent a morning finding for myself before pledging pulled together into a single video. :-+

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 26, 2020, 03:33:32 am
So far the only surprise is that the thing still has a 3010 on the hotend; looks like still plenty of room to go 4010 with a little spacer. I wonder why they KEEP using those noisy little 30mm fans...? Maybe they need the air velocity from that little screamer? Or maybe keeping weight down so they can try and get head velocity up...?

Might be a bit crowded if one wants to go with a larger layer fan; will probably need to lose the metal cover altogether for any variant of 'Fang. :-\

I have no problem with the "Bowden tube directly against the nozzle" hotend design; I know how to make that seal properly and am still not interested in ABS/Nylon. Pretty sure Cap tubing will make PTFE a relatively easy adventure with the stock hotend, and if I want to go ABS/Nylon at a later date, I'd probably mod a Volcano on there anyways.

Maybe I could design a quick-change so it's easy to swap between the two hotends if I have problems with the all-metal Volcano and PLA. :-// The integral auto-leveling would make swaps dead-simple.

mnem
*toddles off to ded*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 27, 2020, 04:18:43 pm
*pokes thread with a stick*

Anybody alive in here...?

mnem
(https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/tumbleweed.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tom66 on May 27, 2020, 05:58:47 pm
Has anyone printed a filter for room dust with a 3D printer yet?  I have no end of dust in my "lab/office" and despite regular vacuuming it continues to gather on PCBs and projects.  I would think a small HEPA filter with a fan to draw air through it could work reasonably well but I've no idea of the power required or if it would make so much noise as to be a horrible distraction. 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 27, 2020, 06:26:38 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUkX3iwr2iE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bUkX3iwr2iE)

More dust. But fun.  :-DD

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on May 27, 2020, 06:48:28 pm
Has anyone printed a filter for room dust with a 3D printer yet?  I have no end of dust in my "lab/office" and despite regular vacuuming it continues to gather on PCBs and projects.  I would think a small HEPA filter with a fan to draw air through it could work reasonably well but I've no idea of the power required or if it would make so much noise as to be a horrible distraction.

This is one of those things that seem better to buy than build.  They are readily available (or at least were before COVID) and not expensive.

Unless the fun of doing airflow design is what you are after.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tom66 on May 27, 2020, 07:11:48 pm
No, that's a fair point, it just might be a fun project.  I have no experience with airflow design though so yes, it might just end up being yet another unfinished project.  Too many of those!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jeroen3 on May 28, 2020, 01:44:44 pm
I have seen some pictures of re-used car filters for standard axial fans. But to get any silent running with some pressure you'd need radial fans. Those go expensive quickly.
3D printing filters is difficult, my room air filters are hepa, good luck with that.

There are some people who 3D printed large dust particle filters for pc cases though, basically they only use infill and perimeters.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 28, 2020, 03:34:14 pm
Still struggling with firmware.

Upgraded SKR mini using the latest Bigtree firmware and that's working fine.

Still having problems with the tft firmware, to copy what I  posted a couple of hours ago in the "Ender3 Modding - HARDWARE - FIRMWARE - SOFTWARE" facebook group,


Quote
Hi all, completely new to this so please bare with me.

Have put the Bigtreetech SKR Mini E3 v1.2 and TFT35 E3 V3.0 touch screen on my new Ender Pro.

I upgraded the firmware on the SKR mini fine.

I'm trying to update the firmware on the TFT35 E3

It comes up with:

0;TFT35/bmp/HOME_MOVE.bmp
Error: BMP file not found

It does this for the following

HOME_MOVE.bmp
HEAT_FAN.bmp
MANUAL_LEVEL.bmp
COOLDOWN.bmp
STATUSNOZZLE.bmp
STATUSBED.bmp
STATUSFAN.bmp
MAINMENU.bmp
STATUS_SPEED.bmp
STATUS_FLOW.bmp
GLOBAL_NOZZLE.bmp
GLOBAL_BED.bmp
PRINTING_NOZZLE.bmp
PRINTING_BED.bmp
PRINTING_FAN.bmp
PRINTING_TIMER.bmp
PRINTING_ZLAYER.bmp
PRINTING_SPEED.bmp
PRINTING_FLOW.bmp
Infobox.bmp

on github, someone else mentions this problem and the response is

"This isn't a bug. There are differences and new icons in the development branch (master) and you will need to take note of those, or use the icons provided in the development branch."

I've tried the Master branch  here (https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-TouchScreenFirmware?fbclid=IwAR3bc-SpUk8lgFB2Npaa0VJVz-gI4FLvM7X8iNNpGw4n36lpVWxqZsVKKMA)  and get the same problem.

Someone else said on github

"You can get release versions (including source code and all icons) from Releases page: here  (https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-TouchScreenFirmware/releases?fbclid=IwAR2ApvoN_ySLw9QXHbTw2b0fkwEICsfbGggsdBdGM9UT8InrGSKcc1-2M2E)    "

and I've tried downloading Vx.x.26 from there and the same thing is happening.

Any suggestions please?

Many thanks

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 28, 2020, 06:50:52 pm
I just got the firmware here -

https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-TouchScreenFirmware

I updated using the unified menu material theme and it worked OK but for the following issue.

This time and the last time I did it these .bmp in the  /TFT/bmp dir did not update -

Status_Fan
Status_Bed
Status_Nozzle


I believe I re-named them last time to this format like the other files, and they loaded -

status_fan
status_bed
status_nozzle


However I did not do it this time because the images look OK, even though it complained about them again.  :-//

Poor quality control on their side.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Domagoj T on May 28, 2020, 07:01:57 pm
Has anyone printed a filter for room dust with a 3D printer yet?  I have no end of dust in my "lab/office" and despite regular vacuuming it continues to gather on PCBs and projects.  I would think a small HEPA filter with a fan to draw air through it could work reasonably well but I've no idea of the power required or if it would make so much noise as to be a horrible distraction.
Check this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym2Dpx-kPT8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym2Dpx-kPT8)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 28, 2020, 07:31:58 pm
Most of the really effective solutions I've seen revolve around a cube with cheap fiberglas filters on 5 sides and a large diameter fan in updraft mode; usually ducted such that exhaust drives air back towards the cube. If HEPA filtration is needed, it is usually a pleated cartridge filter between the cube & the fan, so that the cheap 'glas filters collect most of the particulate to extend the life of the HEPA filter.

There are also plastic mesh filters that supposedly collect dust via air-electrostatic action like the 'glas ones do; supposedly they are also safer. :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 28, 2020, 11:51:34 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeYgj3ZIJjA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeYgj3ZIJjA)   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FvGRm7I1Dc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FvGRm7I1Dc)

Feeling ERFFy? Or maybe MRRFy...?

mnem
*BLRRFy*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 29, 2020, 05:14:34 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=998218;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=998216;image)   

Ooooh... new stretch goals met. I knew about the 32-Bit board; now they're including TMC2209s and a spare nozzle/PTFE kit. I would still prefer Cap tubing, but hey... :-//

Secondarily... BASTARDS. Got me for another $40 with their ADDONS promotion; bought a spare UltraBase cuz it'll never be cheaper than $10, and also added a hotend and piezo transducer base so I can work on mods without having to strip the printer.

Terrible, TERRIBLE thing they've done to us poor 3DP meatheads. >:D

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 29, 2020, 05:50:00 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QzgAtu0_WE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8QzgAtu0_WE)

Looks like Chuck likes it too, for the same reason as I do: all the stuff that comes already built-in. He gave it a "Good deal at $349" (same price as the E3 Pro on Amazon) even with the 8-bit board on his advance copy.

Don't know where he got his estimate of the retail price tho; checking every bracket on the KS the retail price adds up to ~US$400. :-//

mnem
Just waiting for the CR10-E3 Effect (inevitable price-hikes once the first wave is in people's hands and only a few 3rd-party vendors still have them in stock) to strike the CR6... :scared:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 29, 2020, 05:55:23 pm
I just got the firmware here -

https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-TouchScreenFirmware

I updated using the unified menu material theme and it worked OK but for the following issue.

This time and the last time I did it these .bmp in the  /TFT/bmp dir did not update -

Status_Fan
Status_Bed
Status_Nozzle


I believe I re-named them last time to this format like the other files, and they loaded -

status_fan
status_bed
status_nozzle


However I did not do it this time because the images look OK, even though it complained about them again.  :-//

Poor quality control on their side.

Thanks, worked perfectly
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 29, 2020, 06:24:38 pm
Awesome!

Where are you at on the MB swap, HG? Ready to start printing upgrades yet...?

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 29, 2020, 11:47:40 pm
The MB upgrade is complete.

Almost ready to start printing. Just need to sort out my over extrusion which I shall do tomorrow afternoon.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 30, 2020, 08:16:22 am
For better or worse I started a Fusion 360 Thread  :scared: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/fusion-360-mechanical-design-tips-tweaks-and-discussion-(not-eagle)/msg3084200/#msg3084200 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/fusion-360-mechanical-design-tips-tweaks-and-discussion-(not-eagle)/msg3084200/#msg3084200)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tom66 on May 30, 2020, 05:37:08 pm
Had an interesting near disaster last night

Filament got tangled on the roll.  Printer extruder motor ended up pulling the filament reel off the hanger completely and dumping it on the bed.  Then it continued to print.  I heard it from the other room, and went it to see the chaos.

Somehow, the print itself was undisturbed because it all worked out in the end but if I had been asleep it is likely at the least I would have spaghetti and worst case the extruder element may have set fire to the large reel of filament if it got jammed in place somehow.

This was AmazonBasics PETG and it obviously came kinked because I have not unwound it before.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 31, 2020, 12:57:13 am
So... it seems like it would be wise to do a visual inspection of the top layers of the roll, looking for crossed winds before starting a print I guess...?

PLA will generally self-correct even if it crosses over itself as it tends to be a pretty hard & dry surface that slides against itself. But I understand PETG tends to have a pretty high "stiction" factor, being almost sticky when laid against itself, correct?

mnem
*taking notes for future experiments with PETG*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 31, 2020, 05:55:44 am
Based on years of spooling and unspooling 400m runs of 1-1.5 mm Molofiliment issues such as knots NEVER HAPPEN by magic they are the result of a human dropping an end under a loose coil then using it. Doesn't matter if it happened at the factory or end users but it can happen it NEVER HAPPENS on the machine during the wind that is IMPOSSIBLE.

$ spend and any correlation to this is  :bullshit:

Don't buy the 10$/kg bin and problems are gone.
If you like gambling build the printer in a way it can handle 1.75+-0.25mm and fast/easy maintenance of the hotend. Also, rewind every spool to check for thicker than 2.00 mm sections and other problems.


snip....

I am yet to see a spool vary by 0.25mm  :o 1.71 is the smallest I have come across and generally evilbay generic filament PETG or PLA runs within +-0.02mm and I do check.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 31, 2020, 11:41:12 am
Hmm.  I use Marlin to level the bed, do it about 10 times, get it near perfect.

I then try the touch screen levelling. The home has a very very very slight catch of the paper, the other 3 corners the papers not touching the nozzle. So I spend a while levelling it with the touch screen bed leveller, get it near perfect, I then go back to Marlin and the paper is wedged solid under the levelling points.

Am I to presume if I intend to print with Marlin, I level with Marlin, and if I intend to print with the touch screen, I level with the touch screen?

Just want to check something weird isn't going on.

Thanks
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on May 31, 2020, 04:01:41 pm
And now things are going backwards.

The motors have gone back to being noisy, tried in Marlin and touch screen.

I just reloaded the firmware that came with the BIGTREE  SKR mini and the motors are still noisy AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 31, 2020, 04:37:54 pm
Hmm.  I use Marlin to level the bed, do it about 10 times, get it near perfect. I then try the touch screen levelling. The home has a very very very slight catch of the paper, the other 3 corners the papers not touching the nozzle. So I spend a while levelling it with the touch screen bed leveller, get it near perfect, I then go back to Marlin and the paper is wedged solid under the levelling points.

Am I to presume if I intend to print with Marlin, I level with Marlin, and if I intend to print with the touch screen, I level with the touch screen? Just want to check something weird isn't going on.   Thanks

And now things are going backwards.

The motors have gone back to being noisy, tried in Marlin and touch screen. I just reloaded the firmware that came with the BIGTREE  SKR mini and the motors are still noisy AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH

Sounds to me like your default Z offset is different between the two firmwares; or at least different for this material type. Aside from hunting that down, I have no idea how to fix your problem. :-[

Have you adjusted the stepper driver current on the MB yet? That tends to make a profound difference in stepper noise; as do the default travel speeds and jerk/accel in the firmware. My DIGGRO had the driver current set uniformly about 20% lower than recommendations found online; when I set them to recommendations I noticed better surface on my prints, but the steppers were definitely louder.

No idea where you'll find  the default travel speeds and jerk/accel in your FW... these are things I've noted by playing with settings in the slicer, not the FW, so may be completely wrong for your case.  :-// Just offering suggestions as to what I'd start looking for.

Also, of course, before you get TOO hung up on these things, you should make sure the noise isn't from something you've changed mechanically.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 31, 2020, 06:55:00 pm
And now things are going backwards.

The motors have gone back to being noisy, tried in Marlin and touch screen.

I just reloaded the firmware that came with the BIGTREE  SKR mini and the motors are still noisy AAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHHHHH



Please find attched my configuration files (Marlin 2.0.5.3). I have the same board, steppers, and display as you do and my system is working great. Check the settings for various accelerations and tmc driver currents in the files as needed.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on May 31, 2020, 09:25:19 pm
One note: I have Mesh bed leveling activated, which is superior to simple manual leveling -

Quote
Mesh Bed Leveling (MBL) allows interactively measuring a Z height mesh without a bed probe. The only tool required is a piece of paper or a feeler gauge. MBL uses the mesh to compensate for variations in height across the bed.

https://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/G029-mbl.html

In my Configuration.h you will find -

/**
 * Add a bed leveling sub-menu for ABL or MBL.
 * Include a guided procedure if manual probing is enabled.
 */
#define LCD_BED_LEVELING


and

#define MESH_BED_LEVELING

and

#define MESH_INSET 30          // Set Mesh bounds as an inset region of the bed
#define GRID_MAX_POINTS_X 4    // Don't use more than 7 points per axis, implementation limited.
#define GRID_MAX_POINTS_Y GRID_MAX_POINTS_X


The above will guide you through a 4 x 4 array of points on the bed one at a time, and the inset will be 30 mm from the edges (but you can change that and also the number of points to your preference. I changed mine to 4 points from the original 3 points. As you can see it sets the Y points to equal the X points. You can only run this from a menu in the Marlin LCD display mode because it does not exist as an option in the touch screen display (not mesh leveling anyway). At each point you use the knob to move the Z axis up or down until you get the point calibrated, and it moves to the next point one-by-one each time you push the knob to save the setting.

Motion - Leveling - Level Bed

But when you are done you can go back to the touch screen display until the next time you need to do a mesh bed leveling. Trust me it's way better than simple manual bed leveling you should try it.  8)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 01, 2020, 10:20:15 am
Watching a video on mesh bed levelling, the guy also recommends

#define RESTORE_LEVELING_AFTER_G 28

He says this makes sure the mesh bed levelling is used every time a new print starts, he says that otherwise we need to add

M420 S1 to the printers list of G code in the slicer software.

EDIT: I see you already have this enabled :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 01, 2020, 03:54:16 pm
Hmm, not sure whats going on, spent hours on this, not giving up.

I've made sure Configuration.h and configuration_adv.h are almost identical to those Xrunner posted. Only differences are either comments, or things where my version has things called slightly different, for example

XR: #if HAS_TRINAMIC
ME: #if HAS_TRINAMIC_CONFIG

or

XR:   #ifdef PROBE_TEMP_COMPENSATION
ME:   #if ENABLED(PROBE_TEMP_COMPENSATION)

or

XR: #if HAS_GRAPHICAL_LCD && HAS_PRINT_PROGRESS
ME: #if HAS_CHARACTER_LCD && EITHER(SDSUPPORT, LCD_SET_PROGRESS_MANUALLY)



First I'm having trouble flashing, keeps coming up with Eprom error  (have tried initialising eprom first, original firmware still loads fine)

[attachimg=1]


But looking through menu, things seem to be working

[attachimg=2]


However, motors very very noisy.

Things get odd.


I re-flashed the original firmware supplied with the SKR board, motors still noisy.  (sorry no vid)


Due to the original firmware aslo being noisy, I went back to square 1, I remove the SKR board and temporarily replace the original board and screen.

The motors are quieter than with the SKR:  Original board and firmware (https://youtu.be/lC4A899B7t0)

I refitted the SKR and screen, still getting eprom error when flashing,
and as you can see, motor is noisier than the original board on both Marlin and TFT.


SKR Marlin with my firmware (https://youtu.be/UPUc-yje_Uo)

SKR Touch screen with my firmware (https://youtu.be/SFHvp0LeP7E)


So, I re-flashed the original SKR firmware, and this time (unlike earlier) it's as quiet as a mouse

Original SKR firmware now quiet unlike earlier (https://youtu.be/fkg77xUEV6g)

It's also the same on the TFT screen.

Weird how earlier this didn't happen and they remained loud.

Anyway, I'm now trying to sort out why I keep getting this Eprom index error, then hopefully can put the newer firmware on and try mesh leveling.

I've been at this all day, now 17:00 and still stuck lol.  It's not going to beat me
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 02, 2020, 02:20:04 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=999208;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=999204;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=999206;image)   

I think I've had enough joy for one day.  :-DD

mnem
*toddling off to ded*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 02, 2020, 02:33:42 am
Progress sort of then :-DD

Just looking at your sketch why have you dimensioned the top and bottom nodes of what will become the front and back rails? This will give them a small taper? But it is GOOD to see all black lines fully constrained lines  ;)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 02, 2020, 03:30:53 am
Yes; doing it that way allowed me to make the inner walls a uniform 15mm thick instead of front/back tapering to like 9mm & 21mm due to the angle of incidence.

I made bottom/back 90deg, defined bottom & top plane lines at 310mm length, then dragged the floating end of the top plane line til it intersected the 45mm vertical quadrille. The front plane was the last line; it just closed the perimeter at the balance of the angles.

After that I set front & back plane lines as fixed, then measured from them along top + bottom plane lines to 15mm to make those walls uniform.  :-+

Spent some time figuring out multiple holes on a sketch for screw holes, and using constraints to locate the points uniformly as well.  :phew:  Yes, I’m gonna be lazy and screw directly into the plastic; the box is designed such that the entire bottom can be removed just by pulling the hinge pin if needed for tinkery. That’s why 5 screws on the hinge panel. 8)

The only real fail I had was trying to make the curve for the back hinge by doing concentric circles about the hinge axis; to save my life I just couldn’t get the create line/create arc function to play nice. Eventually I gave up and just made it a fillet from the separation line with radius chosen to err on the “slightly too large gap” side of caution. :-//

I’ve saved a copy of it as another project so I can remix the back hinge panel as needed; at this point I believe I’m
ready to start doing fillets. Then it’ll be a matter of sectioning the box into quarters for printing and done.

mnem
*knocks on wood*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Canis Dirus Leidy on June 02, 2020, 08:18:12 am
Some messing with FreeCAD (enclosure for XJW01):
[attachimg=1 width=400]
I also wanted to add a handle "a-la Gainta" for carrying and adjusting the tilt, but, on the one hand, I am not a mechanical engineer (I did not understand how to make the handle rotate by hand, but at the same time it did not turn under the weight of the device) , and on the other, with such PCB layout, the BNC connectors at bottom will strike against the table.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on June 02, 2020, 11:06:42 am
Hmm, not sure whats going on, spent hours on this, not giving up.

I've made sure Configuration.h and configuration_adv.h are almost identical to those Xrunner posted. Only differences are either comments, or things where my version has things called slightly different ...

Hmm. Maybe I didn't glean this from your post, but if you have the SKR board and the touchscreen installed, your printer (as far as the electrical components) is the same as mine (steppers, end-stops switches, fans, ...). Why don't you just use my configs as-is, and compile Marlin 2.0.5.3 and install that? If it doesn't run well and quietly, I should think you have some mechanical issues of some sort.

Sorry if you actually did that, I wasn't sure.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 02, 2020, 02:32:23 pm
Hmm, not sure whats going on, spent hours on this, not giving up.

I've made sure Configuration.h and configuration_adv.h are almost identical to those Xrunner posted. Only differences are either comments, or things where my version has things called slightly different ...

Hmm. Maybe I didn't glean this from your post, but if you have the SKR board and the touchscreen installed, your printer (as far as the electrical components) is the same as mine (steppers, end-stops switches, fans, ...). Why don't you just use my configs as-is, and compile Marlin 2.0.5.3 and install that? If it doesn't run well and quietly, I should think you have some mechanical issues of some sort.

Sorry if you actually did that, I wasn't sure.

I wanted to see where I was going wrong.  I painstakingly went through comparing your files to mine, but I obviously screwed up.  For a start mine takes about 10 mins to compile (i7 32GB PC).

I've just replaced my configuration.h and configaration_adv.h with yours, compiled and it took around 2 mins (if that)

Loaded it onto the printer, printer came up with EEPROM Index error, tried moving motors, still noisy.  Turned printer off and back on, this time no EEPROM error, it correctly comes up with "Build 11apr20 Ready."

Motors are now WHISPER quiet on both Marlin and TFT.  Many many many thanks, I should have done this when you sent them to me, but I like to try and work out why I'm going wrong :)

My Creality aluminium extruder thingy has just been posted through the letterbox.  Think I'll fix that on, mesh level the bed, then try a test print
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 02, 2020, 02:53:06 pm
I get it... Instead of just using the prepackaged solution given to him by another... he wanted to know, ya know...?  :-DD

mnem
Grok in fullness, my friend. :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 02, 2020, 03:02:14 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=94559.0;attach=999312;image)   Some messing with FreeCAD (enclosure for XJW01):   
I also wanted to add a handle "a-la Gainta" for carrying and adjusting the tilt, but, on the one hand, I am not a mechanical engineer (I did not understand how to make the handle rotate by hand, but at the same time it did not turn under the weight of the device) , and on the other, with such PCB layout, the BNC connectors at bottom will strike against the table.

Typically such handle joints are made with what is called a ratcheting pivot or a ratcheting swivel.

This one uses a notched plane against a proud rounded tab to achieve the ratcheting action: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2930131 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2930131)

This one uses a notched drum which faces holes with springs and ball bearings: https://cdn.thingiverse.com/renders/e0/20/9c/58/57/ed68a36b20de765deb18508e0453e11b_preview_card.jpg (https://cdn.thingiverse.com/renders/e0/20/9c/58/57/ed68a36b20de765deb18508e0453e11b_preview_card.jpg)

I generally prefer the latter design; it has a more positive detent action and stays smooth a lot longer under normal use, plus joint detent strength is easily adjusted by putting spacers under the springs.

As for those problem BNCs... it really wouldn't take much to add a chin surface to the back plane or the bottom plate protruding out an a angle for the tool to rest on which would protect them.

Alternately, substitute 180° BNCs as seen on this version:   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=999436;image)   :-+

mnem
(https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/coffee_L.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on June 02, 2020, 03:35:31 pm

I've just replaced my configuration.h and configaration_adv.h with yours, compiled and it took around 2 mins (if that)

Loaded it onto the printer, printer came up with EEPROM Index error, tried moving motors, still noisy.  Turned printer off and back on, this time no EEPROM error, it correctly comes up with "Build 11apr20 Ready."

Motors are now WHISPER quiet on both Marlin and TFT.  Many many many thanks, I should have done this when you sent them to me, but I like to try and work out why I'm going wrong :)

Great!  :-+

I get it... Instead of just using the prepackaged solution given to him by another... he wanted to know, ya know...?  :-DD

Yes I realize that. Just for a test he could try mine to eliminate issues, and of course go back and learn where the differences were. :P
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 02, 2020, 03:46:13 pm


I get it... Instead of just using the prepackaged solution given to him by another... he wanted to know, ya know...?  :-DD

Yes I realize that. Just for a test he could try mine to eliminate issues, and of course go back and learn where the differences were. :P

That presumes I have some common sense
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 02, 2020, 03:58:43 pm
Touche'.    :-DD

mnem
 :clap:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on June 02, 2020, 04:01:35 pm
That presumes I have some common sense

Oh I guarantee you have more common sense than 95% of the occupants of this Rock.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 02, 2020, 04:20:16 pm
Hey... I resemble that remark!    >:D

mnem
*currently doing some sketches on... *gasp*... PAPER...*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 02, 2020, 06:27:53 pm
I love the mesh levelling.

I presume once it's done that's it, it remembers it?  Reason I ask is that I forgot to heat the bed first, and when I ran the levelling again, it started at 0.00

Thinking about it, that makes kind of sense, I expected it to give me the numbers I previously dialled in.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on June 02, 2020, 06:41:52 pm
I love the mesh levelling.

I presume once it's done that's it, it remembers it?  Reason I ask is that I forgot to heat the bed first, and when I ran the levelling again, it started at 0.00

Thinking about it, that makes kind of sense, I expected it to give me the numbers I previously dialled in.

Yes it stores the offsets in EEPROM. They will only disappear if you load new firmware. I haven't leveled my bed in a month - it just works so much better. If you communicate with the printer issue a M503 command and you can see many parameters as well as the mesh offsets if you want to check on them. Here's mine -

Recv: echo:; Mesh Bed Leveling:
Recv: echo:  M420 S1 Z0.00
Recv: echo:  G29 S3 I0 J0 Z-0.15000
Recv: echo:  G29 S3 I1 J0 Z-0.25000
Recv: echo:  G29 S3 I2 J0 Z-0.30000
Recv: echo:  G29 S3 I3 J0 Z-0.40000
Recv: echo:  G29 S3 I0 J1 Z-0.30000
Recv: echo:  G29 S3 I1 J1 Z-0.25000
Recv: echo:  G29 S3 I2 J1 Z-0.25000
Recv: echo:  G29 S3 I3 J1 Z-0.25000
Recv: echo:  G29 S3 I0 J2 Z-0.30000
Recv: echo:  G29 S3 I1 J2 Z-0.15000
Recv: echo:  G29 S3 I2 J2 Z-0.30000
Recv: echo:  G29 S3 I3 J2 Z-0.45000
Recv: echo:  G29 S3 I0 J3 Z-0.30000
Recv: echo:  G29 S3 I1 J3 Z-0.20000
Recv: echo:  G29 S3 I2 J3 Z-0.10000
Recv: echo:  G29 S3 I3 J3 Z-0.40000
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 02, 2020, 07:33:15 pm
I noticed when doing mine that sometimes when turning the knob it went up/down in increments of 0.25, other times it was 0.50.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on June 02, 2020, 09:22:36 pm
I noticed when doing mine that sometimes when turning the knob it went up/down in increments of 0.25, other times it was 0.50.

You might have meant .025 or .05? The default was .025 but I found it was just a little too fine for me. I changed it to .05 step for each detent. The encoder sometimes doesn't step very accurately so it gives two steps instead of one. You can play with the steps as you see fit it as shown below (but that won't fix the double-steps of the encoder) - change it to any value you want to - well within reason of course.  :-/O

/**
 * Add a bed leveling sub-menu for ABL or MBL.
 * Include a guided procedure if manual probing is enabled.
 */
#define LCD_BED_LEVELING

#if ENABLED(LCD_BED_LEVELING)
  #define MESH_EDIT_Z_STEP  0.05 // (mm) Step size while manually probing Z axis. Default 0.025
  #define LCD_PROBE_Z_RANGE 4     // (mm) Z Range centered on Z_MIN_POS for LCD Z adjustment
  //#define MESH_EDIT_MENU        // Add a menu to edit mesh points
#endif
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 03, 2020, 05:46:02 am
Urrgh. Finally got to the point of one segment of the box done; exported as STL and sliced. Now finding my printer doesn't like making parts right at 220 x 220; even tho it SUPPOSEDLY has a 235 x 235 build area. It cuts the print short ~12mm from the right edge of the bed; volume settings in Cura agree with the advertised build volume.

I've had enough joy for one day. |O

Good luck HobGoblyn; hope today is better for you than it has been for me!

mnem
*crawls off into a delightfully cool, dank cave*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 03, 2020, 10:35:01 am
Going further backwards.

I'm convinced my SKR mini E3 must be faulty.  This is exactly the same problem I had the other day when my motors went noisy again. They were perfectly quiet, I hadn't changed anything and they went noisy.  Then I posted about it here and xrunnner kindly sent me his config files. Yesterday I compiled using xrunner's files and all whisper quiet.  Today back to being noisy again as vid below shows.

Noisy Again (https://youtu.be/AtnNVSA9ULY)

Last thing I did was last night was go through mesh levelling, whisper quiet as I did so.


On top of that, I have fitted Creality aluminium extrude, and it's slipping/jolting. If I feed 10mm at a time, first one always goes fine, then sometimes it's OK for next 2 or 3, then it starts constantly slipping.  See below vid.

Extruder slipping (https://youtu.be/O0xu4plGSfQ)


I've tried loosening the circled screw to see if that helps, but no difference

[attachimg=1]


I think I will return the SKR mini and get another one. 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on June 03, 2020, 11:45:58 am
I think I will return the SKR mini and get another one.

Yep. Sounds like it's about that time.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 03, 2020, 12:47:07 pm
I also posted an edited version of the above post on Creality official Ender 3 facebook page.

Someones responded,  Even if that works, it makes me wonder why I need to swap the jumper when others don't.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on June 03, 2020, 01:11:45 pm
Has to do with this -

Note:
1.Settings about Spread: Low=StealthChop, High=SpreadCycle;
The hardware selection terminal SPREAD is reserved on the motherboard, and users can set it directly in the firmware (there is no need to insert any short-circuit cap on the motherboard).

It doesn't sound like it matters because -

there is no need to insert any short-circuit cap on the motherboard


I never set or changed the jumper on mine.

In Configuration_adv.h it's selected as shown -

/**
   * TMC2130, TMC2160, TMC2208, TMC2209, TMC5130 and TMC5160 only
   * Use Trinamic's ultra quiet stepping mode.
   * When disabled, Marlin will use spreadCycle stepping mode.
   */
  #define STEALTHCHOP_XY
  #define STEALTHCHOP_Z
  #define STEALTHCHOP_E
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 03, 2020, 03:18:41 pm
Has to do with this -

Note:
1.Settings about Spread: Low=StealthChop, High=SpreadCycle;
The hardware selection terminal SPREAD is reserved on the motherboard, and users can set it directly in the firmware (there is no need to insert any short-circuit cap on the motherboard).

It doesn't sound like it matters because -

there is no need to insert any short-circuit cap on the motherboard


I never set or changed the jumper on mine.

In Configuration_adv.h it's selected as shown -

/**
   * TMC2130, TMC2160, TMC2208, TMC2209, TMC5130 and TMC5160 only
   * Use Trinamic's ultra quiet stepping mode.
   * When disabled, Marlin will use spreadCycle stepping mode.
   */
  #define STEALTHCHOP_XY
  #define STEALTHCHOP_Z
  #define STEALTHCHOP_E

While I totally agree with your logic, and mine being your config files, is also set the same, I wasn't expecting moving the jumper to make any difference. 

But it has cured the problem, motors back to being whisper quiet.

Why it worked fine after flashing the firmware yesterday , and why it didn't work(before moving jumper)  flashing the same firmware today is anyone's guess. 
The only thing constant with going from quiet to loud was it always happened the following day after there had been no mains power to the printer for a good 6hrs plus. 

I asked on facebook why I need to move my jumpers when others don't, the response was that sometimes the boards get sent out with the jumpers in the wrong place.

My concern now is that is moving the jumper, simply masking a hardware problem, will it for instance forget my mesh settings overnight etc (not connected to PC so cant  find out, although my wife did buy me a Raspberry 4 kit for my birthday last month, haven't had time to play with it yet).

Would be interesting to know the position of the jumper in other peoples machines (I obviously don't expect people to find out, it's a lot of hassle), mine was in the top two of the three pins looking at the pic I posted earlier, it is now in the bottom two.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 03, 2020, 06:01:02 pm
So I've sorted all my problems. Guys on facebook suggested removing the spring infill and use the original spring to fix aluminium extrude juddering.

This worked and I am now ready to print.

I cleaned the bed with IPA

I go through the mesh levelling again  (as reloaded firmware earlier) and did a simple first layer test. 

In Cura, I set the following.

Initial layer height 0.24mm
Printing temperature 200
Build plate temperature 60
Initial layer speed 15 mm/s
Initial fan speed 0% (climbing to normal fan speed at layer 5)

It printed the outside square fine. I then returned a few mins later to find this

[attachimg=1]

Think I'll call it a day for now :)  Might have to get the whiskey out

EDIT: I tried a gcode of the test that I originally tried to print on it's side, that is a gcode I know works. First layer not sticking at all.  Maybe I need to redo the mesh levelling and go one bit tighter on every point. Will have to wait until tomorrow now.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 03, 2020, 06:05:26 pm
HobGoblyn, ya summitch! Ya infected MY 3DP bliss with yer "basic hardware problems" disease. :-DD

Turns out there's some pretty fundamental flaws in the geometry of the Diggro; I'm looking into the causes right now, but first guess is probably due to me changing the OEM extruder backplate for the CReality one.  |O Biggest one is the BS marketing: The bed SIZE is 235mm2; so obviously you're NOT going to have 235mm2 build area.  ::)

But there's more; that annoyance only means that one has to get the tolerances mighty close to even get 225-230mm2print area, but one SHOULD be able to and honestly, that SHOULD have been done by the MFR. grr.

Both X and Y axis mechanical limits (NOT the limit switches; the point where things collide) are offset such that on one end of travel it stops ~10-12mm short of the bed edge, while at the other end of travel it can travel ~10-12mm past the bed.

The weird part is that when watching it print, it does not appear to actually bottom out in any direction, even when it is truncating the print in the X-axis. :wtf: I fear that may be some firmware skullduggery limiting the travel in software.

mnem
*back to the misery pit*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 03, 2020, 06:23:12 pm
Yep, 3D printing isn't for the faint hearted lol.

Reminds me of my old Satellite box, was a German linux affair, took me days to get it set up, and rarely did two months pass until I had to dive in and change something (different transponder for channel etc)

My wife said that there's no way she can work out what to do when it goes wrong, and  the day I die, she's throwing it away and getting a Sky box :)

Her wish has partly came true in that Sky offered me a black Friday deal I couldn't refuse.

While Sky Q is really nice, being able to customise everything on my Linux box, there are certain things I miss. 

Arranging the channels exactly as I want them. 

Setting skip speeds to whatever I want by  pressing 1/3, 4/6, 7/9.  I had it so pressing 3 skipped a minute, 6 four mins and 9 ten secs.   That meant when watching something I've recorded, if an ad break comes on, pressing 6 normally skips right to the end of the adds instantly etc.  I could also record at least 8 channels at once.  Good fun but not at all plug and play.

I can see my 3D printing is going to be very similar  :)

Luckily I enjoy a challenge
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on June 03, 2020, 06:33:31 pm
Think I'll call it a day for now :)  Might have to get the whiskey out

Yea have drink and take a break - we've all had fucked-up issues like that.

Return with a hammer and beat it into submission.  :box:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 03, 2020, 07:01:14 pm
Yep, 3D printing isn't for the faint hearted lol.

Reminds me of my old Satellite box, was a German linux affair, took me days to get it set up, and rarely did two months pass until I had to dive in and change something (different transponder for channel etc)

My wife said that there's no way she can work out what to do when it goes wrong, and  the day I die, she's throwing it away and getting a Sky box :)

Her wish has partly came true in that Sky offered me a black Friday deal I couldn't refuse.

While Sky Q is really nice, being able to customise everything on my Linux box, there are certain things I miss. 

Arranging the channels exactly as I want them. 

Setting skip speeds to whatever I want by  pressing 1/3, 4/6, 7/9.  I had it so pressing 3 skipped a minute, 6 four mins and 9 ten secs.   That meant when watching something I've recorded, if an ad break comes on, pressing 6 normally skips right to the end of the adds instantly etc.  I could also record at least 8 channels at once.  Good fun but not at all plug and play.

I can see my 3D printing is going to be very similar  :)

Luckily I enjoy a challenge

Yeah, I remember similar fun back in the day using ReplayTV on C & KU-bands; I had dual 1TB drives in mine and there were configuration scripts to customize the firmware with all that schizz and make the ReplayTV control most of the popular set-top IRDs.

I still have my complete collection of Kung-Fu ripped from that setup in my archives... :-+

mnem
 >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 04, 2020, 12:33:38 am
Think I'll call it a day for now :)  Might have to get the whiskey out

Yea have drink and take a break - we've all had fucked-up issues like that.

Return with a hammer and beat it into submission.  :box:

I don't think he went for a drink... I think he came up North to haunt my 3DP.  :-DD

By dint of adding spacers, lengthening belts and a little grinding/filing, I got the mechanicals sorted so both axes can physically travel ~3mm past the bed in both directions. Relocated the limit switches, went to test, and it homed X-Y susccessfully, so I tested X-travel.  It counted up to 220mm and then went plumb loco; first it froze up then it (or the touchscreen) started bootlooping. Powered down and waited a couple minutes; it booted then refused to do anything. Power cycled again and bootloop. |O

At that point I decided to turn the effing thing off and eat dinner.

mnem
Yup... just the sort of deviltry a HobGoblyn would get up to.  >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 04, 2020, 02:45:43 am
So I went back over every limit switch & stepper with my meter, looking for a short in something I'd handled; nothing. Put it all back together, and just like that... back to my normal state of abnormal.

Everything tested OK, got my limit switches trimmed out  so that home is right on the tippy-tip point of the LF corner of the bed, and since it was working correctly, I was able to see that the firmware stops at 220mm from home in both axes.  |O  I think I scared it with the ol' FLUKE.  :-DD

Now I need to figure out how to set my X-Y offset, and then adjust the outer limits of travel for both axes; something I've never had to do before as all my previous 3DP either came with or I was able to DL preconfigured FW that was pretty much dead-on out of the box as long as I set my limits correctly. :-//

But THAT is a story for another day.

mnem
"You'd better play nice... I have an oscilloscope, and the probes are CO-O-OLD..."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 04, 2020, 03:56:34 am
The spread jumper on the SKR wants to be on the bottom two pins. I think. It's XOR'd with the register, so depending on how Marlin handles it, behaviour may be less than intuitive. It's not going to forget any settings any more than it's going to erase its own firmware. They are, after all, stored in the same place.

The bed is trying to tell you it's concave. Such is the nature of alu beds mounted with four screws and springs..
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 04, 2020, 04:25:29 am
That’s why glass (or Ultrabase) is your friend. If you need to cheat, a little extra-hold hairspray works a treat.  ;)

I’ve made many a large print on $10/dozen Homeowner Hell mirror tiles that way back when with my Tornado...

mnem
 :=\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 04, 2020, 04:44:03 am
Give me some spring steel and a probe over a piece of glass any day.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: yippy on June 04, 2020, 08:22:22 am
Haven't used my printer in over a year and when I finally had something to print the extruder stepper driver decided to die on the melzi board. Bought a ramps 1.4 kit and in the process of converting it. Hopefully setting up the firmware isn't too much of a hassle.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 04, 2020, 09:04:30 am
The spread jumper on the SKR wants to be on the bottom two pins. I think. It's XOR'd with the register, so depending on how Marlin handles it, behaviour may be less than intuitive. It's not going to forget any settings any more than it's going to erase its own firmware. They are, after all, stored in the same place.

The bed is trying to tell you it's concave. Such is the nature of alu beds mounted with four screws and springs..

Thanks, nice to know jumper is in correct position.  Was a bit confused about odd things happening before I moved jumper, but the guy that told me to move it, experienced the same random things before he moved his,

I used mesh levelling using 16 points to level the bed with bed temp at 60 and nozzle temp at 200 with no filament in it, the same temps I’m printing at, hence I expected it to compensate. I will retry the mesh levelling in a while and see what happens.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on June 04, 2020, 10:50:15 am
I used mesh levelling using 16 points to level the bed with bed temp at 60 and nozzle temp at 200 with no filament in it, the same temps I’m printing at, hence I expected it to compensate. I will retry the mesh levelling in a while and see what happens.

Oh, did you store the data after the mesh leveling was finished? I know this sounds like a stupid question, but I've forgotten to do it when I was in a hurry. Just because it finishes doesn't meant mean the data is stored. You have to scroll down a couple of lines on that same menu to "store" and push the button.

Sounds simple but you might not have done that.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 04, 2020, 01:01:34 pm
Blatantly stolen from elsewhere in the WWW. Programming header with POGO pins for programming Sonoff S26 GPO modules  :-+ Uber specialized and niche but thats part of what is good about 3D printing. Credit to @CableTie on discord.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 04, 2020, 01:05:51 pm
I used mesh levelling using 16 points to level the bed with bed temp at 60 and nozzle temp at 200 with no filament in it, the same temps I’m printing at, hence I expected it to compensate. I will retry the mesh levelling in a while and see what happens.

If you're doing that using paper or the like you actually want to do it cold, so thermal expansion fills the gap the paper leaves.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 04, 2020, 01:48:18 pm
I used mesh levelling using 16 points to level the bed with bed temp at 60 and nozzle temp at 200 with no filament in it, the same temps I’m printing at, hence I expected it to compensate. I will retry the mesh levelling in a while and see what happens.

Oh, did you store the data after the mesh leveling was finished? I know this sounds like a stupid question, but I've forgotten to do it when I was in a hurry. Just because it finishes doesn't meant mean the data is stored. You have to scroll down a couple of lines on that same menu to "store" and push the button.

Sounds simple but you might not have done that.

I did on one of my many attempts over past few days, but I wrongly misunderstood post 869 to mean all I had to do was bed levelling and nothing else.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 04, 2020, 02:36:17 pm
Give me some spring steel and a probe over a piece of glass any day.

Yeah; that's coming.  >:D

Never was that impressed with the steel plates tho; don't care for the idea of adding warpy pre-stressed metal to the equation.  :P  But then, I never had that much problem getting parts off.  Take the glass off, set it in the corner, put a new glass on and go about my business.  A few minutes later, parts jump off the glass by themselves. What's wrong with that...? :-//

mnem
(https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/coffee_L.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 04, 2020, 02:45:56 pm
Haven't used my printer in over a year and when I finally had something to print the extruder stepper driver decided to die on the melzi board. Bought a ramps 1.4 kit and in the process of converting it. Hopefully setting up the firmware isn't too much of a hassle.

Good luck.  :-+ I've never had to set up a printer FW completely from scratch; I find the prospect daunting to say the least, especially after the headaches I've run into with my little cheapie.

I mean, yeah... if I wanted to just use it the way it came out of the box, there would've been ZERO headaches, I'm sure. But who EVER does that with a 3DP...? :-DD

mnem
moo...?

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 04, 2020, 02:52:33 pm
Blatantly stolen from elsewhere in the WWW. Programming header with POGO pins for programming Sonoff S26 GPO modules  :-+ Uber specialized and niche but thats part of what is good about 3D printing. Credit to @CableTie on discord.

Yeah... I looked into the ESPeasy thing back when; wasn't sure I like the idea of turning all my kitchen appliances into a potential botnet with the ability to start fires.  :-DD

mnem
*casts a prayer to Ifni for bean's sanity*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 04, 2020, 03:10:05 pm
Blatantly stolen from elsewhere in the WWW. Programming header with POGO pins for programming Sonoff S26 GPO modules  :-+ Uber specialized and niche but thats part of what is good about 3D printing. Credit to @CableTie on discord.

Yeah... I looked into the ESPeasy thing back when; wasn't sure I like the idea of turning all my kitchen appliances into a potential botnet with the ability to start fires.  :-DD

mnem
*casts a prayer to Ifni for bean's sanity*

I have a handful of Sonoff POW's running my fridges and another for starting the Espresso Machine from Bed in the mornings  ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 04, 2020, 04:52:29 pm
Yeah... I like the idea of a simple timer better... tho it does mean I'd have the pot running in standby keep-warm mode until I get to it if I decide to sleep in.

Still potential to start a fire, I know. But at least I don't have to worry about my coffee-pot joining the robot rebellion.  :-DD

mnem
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i_iNDrWr48 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9i_iNDrWr48)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 04, 2020, 05:09:08 pm
Okay... so I need to define X and Y bed size to match the build area, and X & Y min & max so moving parts of the printer can't collide with stuffs.

Does X & Y min specify where the actual build area begins on the FL corner, or is that something else...?

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 04, 2020, 06:03:13 pm
Right. I've done the mesh levelling properly.

Did a quick first layer test (that I sliced), I did it twice, once from Marlin and once from TFT (wanting to put my mind at rest that TFT was doing mesh levelling) 

Both came out exactly the same,  both looked perfect while on the bed

[attachimg=1]

But both of them, when I removed the squares from the bed, the left hand edge on the largest two squares separated

[attachimg=2]

They were printed with bed at 60 and nozzle at 200


I tried printing the level test I printed when I first built my printer (downloaded gcode, no slicing by me) , this printed at  195 and the bed was 45, this printed 100% fine on both Marlin and TFT and when I removed it, zero separation

[attachimg=3]

So I'm happy everything is working, and I just need to learn how to use Cura properly :)

As a final test, I printed a dog that I didn't have to slice.

[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]

[attachimg=6]

Very happy with the result. Still need to calibrate extruder, that's my next job :)

Many thanks for all your help, I'm sure something else will screw up pretty soon :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 04, 2020, 06:30:46 pm
Okay... so I need to define X and Y bed size to match the build area, and X & Y min & max so moving parts of the printer can't collide with stuffs.

Does X & Y min specify where the actual build area begins on the FL corner, or is that something else...?

mnem
 :-/O

Ahh... I think I have it. X & Y min define that the MIN endstop switches are being used; the HOMING section defines where HOME (the beginning point of the print area) is located. Setting these to a positive number will create the offset distance from the limit switches I was wanting to set, I think.

After that I can define the build area.

Oh, and I can see that there is a place to define software MAX end stops in mm as well.  :-+

Anything else I need to look out for, or is that pretty much it for my goofy build area problems...?

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 04, 2020, 07:05:46 pm
Okay... so I need to define X and Y bed size to match the build area, and X & Y min & max so moving parts of the printer can't collide with stuffs.

Does X & Y min specify where the actual build area begins on the FL corner, or is that something else...?

mnem
 :-/O

Ahh... I think I have it. X & Y min define that the MIN endstop switches are being used; the HOMING section defines where HOME (the beginning point of the print area) is located. Setting these to a positive number will create the offset distance from the limit switches I was wanting to set, I think.

After that I can define the build area.

Oh, and I can see that there is a place to define software MAX end stops in mm as well.  :-+

Anything else I need to look out for, or is that pretty much it for my goofy build area problems...?

mnem
 :-/O

The firmware itself has no real concept of the bed size. The slicer will typically take 0,0 as the bottom left corner. If your endstop causes the nozzle to travel off the bed, X/Y MIN_POS or MAX_POS should be set appropriately. If the X min stop puts the nozzle 6mm left of the bed, X_MIN_POS should be -6 (plus your chosen safety margin, which is essentially 0 for a nice square, flat bed, and probably about 5mm for these machines).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 04, 2020, 09:12:19 pm
Huh...? :-//

okay.... here's what I'm looking for... My Tornado, when you'd tell it to Home X-Y, would move these axes until the switches activated (this came pre-configured such that it happened a few mm outside the LF corner of the bed) and wait for the user. But when it printed, it would move to a position within the printspace between the 4 screws (the Tornado uses an oversized ceramic printbed with proud screws which define the print area) and start from there with the initial wipe, pre-extrusion, etc.

I want the same behavior, only that when a print is started it should bring the nozzle to within a few mm inside the front & left edges of the printer, this point being the actual beginning of the print area.

As usual, there is more than one area in Marlin which looks like it will do what I want; I'm not certain of the behavior of X & Y Min & Max vs that of the X & Y software endstops. Short of starting a print which actually challenges these limits I don't know how to confirm their behavior.

mnem
 |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 04, 2020, 09:27:53 pm
MIN_POS and MAX_POS are the software endstops. They're also the position of the endstop switches. All the motion after homing (or other automated operations..) is produced by the slicer.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 04, 2020, 09:36:54 pm
Ummm... okay.... then what does the section called Software Endstops do...?

This firmware runs two models of printer; mine is the default LK4 Pro in the code below:
Code: [Select]
// @section homing

//#define NO_MOTION_BEFORE_HOMING  // Inhibit movement until all axes have been homed

//#define UNKNOWN_Z_NO_RAISE // Don't raise Z (lower the bed) if Z is "unknown." For beds that fall when Z is powered off.

//#define Z_HOMING_HEIGHT 4  // (in mm) Minimal z height before homing (G28) for Z clearance above the bed, clamps, ...
                             // Be sure you have this distance over your Z_MAX_POS in case.

// Direction of endstops when homing; 1=MAX, -1=MIN
// :[-1,1]
#define X_HOME_DIR -1
#define Y_HOME_DIR -1
#define Z_HOME_DIR -1

// @section machine

#ifdef LK1_Pro
// The size of the print bed
#define X_BED_SIZE 300
#define Y_BED_SIZE 300

// Travel limits (mm) after homing, corresponding to endstop positions.
#define X_MIN_POS 0
#define Y_MIN_POS 0
#define Z_MIN_POS 0
#define X_MAX_POS X_BED_SIZE
#define Y_MAX_POS Y_BED_SIZE
#define Z_MAX_POS 400
#else  //LK4_Pro
// The size of the print bed
#define X_BED_SIZE 220
#define Y_BED_SIZE 220

// Travel limits (mm) after homing, corresponding to endstop positions.
#define X_MIN_POS 0
#define Y_MIN_POS 0
#define Z_MIN_POS 0
#define X_MAX_POS X_BED_SIZE
#define Y_MAX_POS Y_BED_SIZE
#define Z_MAX_POS 250
#endif

/**
 * Software Endstops
 *
 * - Prevent moves outside the set machine bounds.
 * - Individual axes can be disabled, if desired.
 * - X and Y only apply to Cartesian robots.
 * - Use 'M211' to set software endstops on/off or report current state
 */

// Min software endstops constrain movement within minimum coordinate bounds
#define MIN_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOPS
#if ENABLED(MIN_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOPS)
  #define MIN_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOP_X
  #define MIN_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOP_Y
  #define MIN_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOP_Z
#endif

// Max software endstops constrain movement within maximum coordinate bounds
#define MAX_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOPS
#if ENABLED(MAX_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOPS)
  #define MAX_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOP_X
  #define MAX_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOP_Y
  #define MAX_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOP_Z
#endif

#if ENABLED(MIN_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOPS) || ENABLED(MAX_SOFTWARE_ENDSTOPS)
  //#define SOFT_ENDSTOPS_MENU_ITEM  // Enable/Disable software endstops from the LCD
#endif

Thanks.

mnem
 :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 04, 2020, 09:39:23 pm
That section chooses whether you want software endstops or not. The values used are MIN_POS and MAX_POS.

If your limit switches allow travel beyond the bed, you need to set the MIN_POS coordinates negative in order to offset 0 to the location of the bed.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 04, 2020, 10:20:06 pm
Okay... so this printer came with the end switches set to 0,0 over the printbed (also the start point of the print area), and this is the way they're normally set up?

I figured it was supposed to do the homing action OFF the printbed, to prevent possible crashes when homing the Z axis.

Also figured that since they have all this stuff in there, somebody was just being lazy.  :-DD

mnem
There I go thinking again.  :P
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 04, 2020, 10:21:36 pm
That would be the implication of the config. Some printers can travel past the bed area, some can't.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 04, 2020, 10:25:51 pm
Makes sense. Right now I'm trying to figure out a little lateral runout issue; seems the bed is slightly off-square. As it's only ~2mm from front-back, might be able to resolve just by loosening the Y-track extrusion and retightening.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on June 04, 2020, 11:04:43 pm
Okay... so this printer came with the end switches set to 0,0 over the printbed (also the start point of the print area), and this is the way they're normally set up?

I figured it was supposed to do the homing action OFF the printbed, to prevent possible crashes when homing the Z axis.

Also figured that since they have all this stuff in there, somebody was just being lazy.  :-DD

mnem
There I go thinking again.  :P

Homing off the print bed doesn't prevent crashes if the Z axis home is below the print bed.  It just delays the crash until the print starts.  And changes it from a low speed top down crash into a higher speed lateral crash.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 04, 2020, 11:06:11 pm
Well, that condition would tend to be suboptimal... we can't plan every failure away. ;)

Makes sense. Right now I'm trying to figure out a little lateral runout issue; seems the bed is slightly off-square. As it's only ~2mm from front-back, might be able to resolve just by loosening the Y-track extrusion and retightening.

mnem
 :-/O

Nope.  ::) Guess I'll have to cheat and glue my UltraBase down a little crooked.  :P

mnem
Meh... good enough for who it's for.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 05, 2020, 05:33:18 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1000129;image)

Well, there's some progress.  :-+

mnem
*toddles off to ded*  :=\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 05, 2020, 01:43:06 pm
Wellp... that was short-lived. Between me posting that and the time I actually toddled off to bed, the printer blew up. I checked on my way past to find a hairy mess; random layer shifts for ~3mm in the X-axis, then it started trying to print on air right in the middle of the bed.  |O

Stopped the print, and it was totes out to lunch; it would stop in the middle of the bed thinking that was its max travel of 232mm. Same after homing and a reboot. I just turned it off and went to bed. ::)

Woke up this morning & tried it again; still exactly the same. I think I need to step away and do something completely unrelated for a while before I start doing some percussive mediation. ;)

mnem
No, I'm not going to post pictures of my FAIL. >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on June 05, 2020, 02:09:45 pm
Wellp... that was short-lived. Between me posting that and the time I actually toddled off to bed, the printer blew up. I checked on my way past to find a hairy mess; random layer shifts for ~3mm in the X-axis, then it started trying to print on air right in the middle of the bed.  |O

Stopped the print, and it was totes out to lunch; it would stop in the middle of the bed thinking that was its max travel of 232mm. Same after homing and a reboot. I just turned it off and went to bed. ::)

Woke up this morning & tried it again; still exactly the same. I think I need to step away and do something completely unrelated for a while before I start doing some percussive mediation. ;)

I'll just give the same advice as I did before  :-DD

Yea have drink and take a break - we've all had fucked-up issues like that.

Return with a hammer and beat it into submission.  :box:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 05, 2020, 03:06:44 pm
Both came out exactly the same,  both looked perfect while on the bed
(Attachment Link)

That's not a good first layer, you've got to move the bed up a bit, it's not squished enough. Don't touch the gcode nor anything in the slicer, just turn (all) the bed's adjust wheels 1/4 .. 1/2 a turn in the up direction, all the same amount and try again.

And use hair laquer, just a small puff is plenty enough.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 05, 2020, 05:30:34 pm
Both came out exactly the same,  both looked perfect while on the bed
(Attachment Link)

That's not a good first layer, you've got to move the bed up a bit, it's not squished enough. Don't touch the gcode nor anything in the slicer, just turn (all) the bed's adjust wheels 1/4 .. 1/2 a turn in the up direction, all the same amount and try again.

And use hair laquer, just a small puff is plenty enough.

I was about to post the following:

Tried printing the filament guide from thingyverse (my slicing but followed guide), it would not stick on the left hand side, exactly the same place as the two squares don't stick in post 878, middle stuck firm. in the end I had to use a raft, now it's printing OK.

It's as though that one part of the bed is odd.

Back to what you say, are you telling me to do that and simply try another print, or should I do that and redo my 16 point mesh levelling after?  I presumed the mesh levelling was to overcome things like this?  Surely if I redo my mesh levelling after raising it slightly I'm going to be in exactly the same position, or am I missing something?

Wife's a mobile hairdresser so no shortage of hairspray, but many youtube vids say it should t be needed?

Thanks
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 05, 2020, 05:32:40 pm
Wellp... that was short-lived. Between me posting that and the time I actually toddled off to bed, the printer blew up. I checked on my way past to find a hairy mess; random layer shifts for ~3mm in the X-axis, then it started trying to print on air right in the middle of the bed.  |O

Stopped the print, and it was totes out to lunch; it would stop in the middle of the bed thinking that was its max travel of 232mm. Same after homing and a reboot. I just turned it off and went to bed. ::)

Woke up this morning & tried it again; still exactly the same. I think I need to step away and do something completely unrelated for a while before I start doing some percussive mediation. ;)

mnem
No, I'm not going to post pictures of my FAIL. >:D

Glad I'm not alone :)   
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 05, 2020, 06:22:04 pm
And use hair laquer, just a small puff is plenty enough.

The whole point of these print surfaces is to stop doing that.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 05, 2020, 08:14:51 pm
Back to what you say, are you telling me to do that and simply try another print, or should I do that and redo my 16 point mesh levelling after?  I presumed the mesh levelling was to overcome things like this?  Surely if I redo my mesh levelling after raising it slightly I'm going to be in exactly the same position, or am I missing something?

The mesh is ok and there's no need to redo it because it's an offset relative to Z=0, but at Z=0 you've got the bed too low (IOW, your Z=0 isn't at Z=0 (*)) => the first layer is being printed a bit too high / far from the bed.

If there's a "BED Z" in your MOTION menu move the bed up a smidge (I'd try with 0.15mm, a positive value moves it up, a negative value down), if there's no menu option move it up manually with the adjust wheels (1/4..1/3 turn of the wheel should be enough). But if you do it with the wheels be sure to move all the wheels exactly the same amount if not you'll be tilting the bed.

If you do use hair laquer, it's very easy to clean afterwards with plain water and a damp rag, and it always helps adhesion, but there should be no need to use it if the bed is coated ("ultrabase"), as somebody else has pointed out.

(*) At Z=0 the tip of the nozzle should be just touching the bed. Many people have this adjust wrong because after doing a "LEVEL CORNERS" with a sheet of paper you're leaving the bed 0.1mm below Z=0. Correct that by setting "BED Z" to +0.1, or move it up manually with the wheels.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 05, 2020, 08:37:35 pm
Tried printing the filament guide from thingyverse (my slicing but followed guide), it would not stick on the left hand side, exactly the same place as the two squares don't stick in post 878, middle stuck firm. in the end I had to use a raft, now it's printing OK.

It's as though that one part of the bed is odd.

That's not very unlikely (a bed that isn't flat/has highs and lows). And if the mesh points aren't enough / are too far away one from another, the ABL/mesh can't correct it. But you can put up to 7*7 mesh points in config.h. I'd try that. I have a bed like that in a CR10 and the 49 points mesh does the trick.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 05, 2020, 10:03:12 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1000360;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1000356;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1000354;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1000352;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1000358;image)   

So... this afternoon I finally got up the ambition to survey the damage; the x-axis felt weird at approx 20-60mm travel, like it was binding or something. Between that and the weird behavior, I was fearing the worst; like the stepper had grenaded (even tho it was stone cold last night) or worse, the TMC2208 had kakked from repetitive overload caused by the binding. Well, at least the troubleshooting session gave me a chance to practice my cold-pull technique.  :-+

Of course, the culprit (as usual) was something much more mundane; the pinion had spun loose on the shaft. Usually this gives you some warning; the screw hitting against the flat of the shaft will hammer like a summitch, and you'll notice it right quick. But not in this case, even though I DID check all the set screws when I assembled the kit. :o

Turns out that there's a bit of a fault in the geometry of this stepper in this application; with the pinions they chose, there just isn't enough depth on the flat of the shaft to be able to center the pinion on the belt. So, rather than fix the design flaw by choosing a different stepper or pinion, they just tightened the grub-screw against the round of the shaft. Well, the half of it they could hit with the pinion located properly. :palm:

So, a little Dremel work got me the flat on that shaft extended ~3mm; reassembled everything and now the X-axis geometry is correct and should stay that way. 8)

Interesting side-track; it took me 3 more tries to actually get a successful start on the print; first one curled at ~3mm progress, so following the conventional wisdom with PLA, I turned the bed heat down. That caused a print fail clusterflop where the part broke loose in one piece and glued itself to the nozzle. Digging the PLA from around the nozzle without ripping the insulation on the heat-block proved quite the job, even with tweezers.  |O

Finally I noted that the edges (where this print was going down) were actually enough cooler that I could feel the difference; even though I wait a good 10 minutes every time for the glass to come up to temp and stabilize. I had to crank the heat up to 70° to get a successful start; and yes, I have a good 4mm brim on both part and support, because about 60% of the footprint of this thing IS support.

Now just hoping it doesn't start to curl up again...  :scared:

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 06, 2020, 05:53:03 pm
Back to what you say, are you telling me to do that and simply try another print, or should I do that and redo my 16 point mesh levelling after?  I presumed the mesh levelling was to overcome things like this?  Surely if I redo my mesh levelling after raising it slightly I'm going to be in exactly the same position, or am I missing something?

The mesh is ok and there's no need to redo it because it's an offset relative to Z=0, but at Z=0 you've got the bed too low (IOW, your Z=0 isn't at Z=0 (*)) => the first layer is being printed a bit too high / far from the bed.

If there's a "BED Z" in your MOTION menu move the bed up a smidge (I'd try with 0.15mm, a positive value moves it up, a negative value down), if there's no menu option move it up manually with the adjust wheels (1/4..1/3 turn of the wheel should be enough). But if you do it with the wheels be sure to move all the wheels exactly the same amount if not you'll be tilting the bed.

If you do use hair laquer, it's very easy to clean afterwards with plain water and a damp rag, and it always helps adhesion, but there should be no need to use it if the bed is coated ("ultrabase"), as somebody else has pointed out.

(*) At Z=0 the tip of the nozzle should be just touching the bed. Many people have this adjust wrong because after doing a "LEVEL CORNERS" with a sheet of paper you're leaving the bed 0.1mm below Z=0. Correct that by setting "BED Z" to +0.1, or move it up manually with the wheels.

After a ton of tests I  worked out that mine is the opposite, a positive Bed Z causes the print head to be further away from the bed, a negative one causes it to be closer.

I'll do a separate post about my experience with levelling, this post I want to know what setting shows the proper amount of squish please.

From my experiences today, I've worked out that when I know which Bed Z setting shows the correct squish, next time I redo the mesh levelling, I'll reset Bed Z to 0.00, do the meshlevel, then dial in the Bed Z value again.

I havent yet increased the number of mesh points, I will do that tomorrow.

So, did 4 point manual levelling (adjusting wheels), got it to feel exactly the same as yesterday when I did it.  Then I did the meshlevelling (BED Z at 0.00) 

I then did my test print, as you can see it didn't stick (NOTE: had crash at bottom left a few days ago, so ignore where that is blackish on  pics).

[attachimg=1]



I adjusted BED Z to -0.5, this time it stuck

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]



Then at -0.1

[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]



Then at 0.15

[attachimg=6]

[attachimg=7]



Then at 0.2

[attachimg=8]

[attachimg=9]



Then at 0.25  (added 3rd photo to compare with 3.0)

[attachimg=10]

[attachimg=11]

[attachimg=12]


Then finally 0.3  (which is too much judging by 3rd photo below)

[attachimg=13]

[attachimg=14]

[attachimg=15]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 06, 2020, 06:00:04 pm
Edit: Worked out whats happening, see post 926


About my bed levelling.

Yesterday I manually levelled the bed, didn't need much adjustment, I did the 4 corners as in not to scale pic below

[attachimg=1]



I then did the meshlevelling and ended up with the following.

[attachimg=2]


I retried the mesh levelling a few times during the day and came up with the same (well one or two might have changed by 0.05).


So I was pretty confused when today I thought I would meshlevel again and it came up with the following.

[attachimg=3]


My initial thought was the bed must have moved a lot somehow, so I redid the 4 corner manual levelling , but it was fine. I tried the meshlevelling again, it still came up the same.

Why it went from say  -0.100 yesterday to + 0.300 today, I simply do not know.  But no matter how many times I do it today (with BED Z on 0.00 as it was yesterday) it comes out identical, yet I must have done it 5 times yesterday and they too were all identical, only completely different. Weird.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 06, 2020, 06:16:56 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1000120;image)      (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1000646;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1000642;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1000644;image)

Mundane everyday useful item print number 74: Sanwa joystick cloverleaf restrictor plate for arcade game console.  *yawwwwnnnn*

Many of the classic 8-bit arcade games (Pac-man, Galaga, etc) don't play right with the default 8-way joystick; they ignore it or worse, go the wrong way when two switch-close actions happen together (diagonal on a 8-way stick). This plate makes the popular Sanwa (or in my case, cheap Chinese clone) joysticks ONLY produce 4-way signal; now Pac-Man is decently playable. Second one for player 2 just popped off the printer.  ^-^

IoT Hells yeah!   :-+    Joystick Thing on ThingiVerse (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2815756)

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 06, 2020, 08:00:56 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1000686;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1000684;image)   CReality Release: CR-6 MAX (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit/posts/2850438)

Oh, poop... CR-6 MAX=CR-6SE inflated to 400x400x400.   :o   I can get that coming instead if I upgrade my pledge by *does a little math* ummm... US$360.

That IS tempting at $699 (supposedly $200 off list of $899)... especially against current prices ~$580 for the CR-10. BUT... They won't start shipping til October.

Yeah... a $320 gamble on being a early adopter is one thing; $700 AND waiting an extra 2 months makes it quite resistible, at least right now.

mnem
*wibble*  :scared:


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 07, 2020, 02:37:43 pm
Edit: Worked out whats happening, see post...


About my bed levelling.

Yesterday I manually levelled the bed, didn't need much adjustment, I did the 4 corners as in not to scale pic below

(Attachment Link)



I then did the meshlevelling and ended up with the following.

(Attachment Link)


I retried the mesh levelling a few times during the day and came up with the same (well one or two might have changed by 0.05).


So I was pretty confused when today I thought I would meshlevel again and it came up with the following.

(Attachment Link)


My initial thought was the bed must have moved a lot somehow, so I redid the 4 corner manual levelling , but it was fine. I tried the meshlevelling again, it still came up the same.

Why it went from say  -0.100 yesterday to + 0.300 today, I simply do not know.  But no matter how many times I do it today (with BED Z on 0.00 as it was yesterday) it comes out identical, yet I must have done it 5 times yesterday and they too were all identical, only completely different. Weird.

I've worked out what I'm doing wrong, doh

What I've been doing is going into the touch screen, using the bed levelling to set the 4 corners manually, then going into Marlin and doing the mesh levelling.  Regardless of what I said in my previous post, at some point I must have redone this and moved the wheels.

So today, after yesterdays odd mesh results (all the mesh points being positive instead of the negative values I had the previous day), I checked the 4 corners in Touch screen, way out, two of them took nearly a whole wheel turn.  At this point I realised I must be doing something stupid as there's no way they would vibrate that much (upgraded springs).

I went back into Marlin, then it occurred to me what I had stupidly been doing wrong.

I had been using the 4 corner touch screen manual bed levelling with meshlevelling turned on.    I turned bedlevelling off in Marlin (remembered to store it), went back into the touch screen, and sure enough the 4 corner test was way out and I had to turn the wheels in the opposite direction to level it.

I then went back into Marlin, did the meshleveling, and sure enough they were almost identical (most were identical, a few 0.05 out) to the ones I did Friday, all negative readings.

So whenever I level my bed, I need to do the following.

Set BED Z to 0.00 and store.
Turn bed levelling off and store.
Go into TFT and run 4 corner manual  bed level.
Go into Marlin, run meshlevel and store.
Re enter BED Z value and store.

Then I should be ready to print, finally got it worked out.  If someone could look at my post 922 and say which looks squished right, would be greatly appreciated

Thanks

EDIT:  I notice that sometimes going into Motion/Bed Levelling  on Marlin I have the "Bed Levelling on"  (or off) option, other times it's not there.  I've just gone from TFT to Marlin and it's not there at all. That has me worried that it could be turned off. 

So under Marlin, I've rerun meshlevelling and on completion it now again shows the "Bed levelling on"  option.  I store it.  Restart into Marlin and now there's no Bed Levelling on/off option. weird.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tom66 on June 07, 2020, 03:13:37 pm
One thing I've really noticed between PETG filaments is how "sticky" some of them can be.

I have been doing a lot of printing with Amazon's PETG and e-DA PETG,  both of these adhere well to my PEI sheet and print quality is good.

But I got some PrimaCreator filament which adheres -so well- to the damn bed every time I try taking parts off I feel like I'm going to rip the PEI.

I wonder why this filament is so different?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 07, 2020, 05:12:04 pm
After a ton of tests I  worked out that mine is the opposite, a positive Bed Z causes the print head to be further away from the bed, a negative one causes it to be closer.

Yes that's right, my bad, sorry. So BED Z is the Z at which the bed rests after a level corners. Should be (minus) the paper thickness= -0.1mm.

Try this gcode to test your saved mesh. It 1)heats the bed (to 60˚C) and nozzle (to 200˚C), 2)Does a home, 3)turns on ABL and then 4)moves the nozzle from X 40..200 Y 40..200 in a grid 40 mm apart to Z=0.1 so that you can feel the height with a paper. Click to move from a point to the next.

M300 ;BEEP
M104 S130 ;NOZZLE TEMP NO WAIT
M190 S50 ;BED TEMP WAIT
M140 S60 ;BED TEMP NO WAIT
M109 S200 ;NOZZLE TEMP WAIT

G21 ;USE mm
G90 ;ABSOLUTE
G28 ;Home
M420 S1 ;ENABLE ABL
G0 F3000 ;50*60=3000 => 50 mm/s




G0 X40 Y40 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X80 Y40 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X120 Y40 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X160 Y40 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X200 Y40 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE




G0 X40 Y80 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X80 Y80 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X120 Y80 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X160 Y80 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X200 Y80 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE




G0 X40 Y120 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X80 Y120 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X120 Y120 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X160 Y120 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X200 Y120 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE




G0 X40 Y160 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X80 Y160 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X120 Y160 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X160 Y160 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X200 Y160 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE




G0 X40 Y200 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X80 Y200 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X120 Y200 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X160 Y200 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE

G0 X200 Y200 Z10
G0 Z0.1
M0 CLICK TO CONTINUE




G0 Z10
M140 S0 ;BED TEMP NO WAIT
M104 S0 ;NOZZLE TEMP NO WAIT
M18 ;DISABLE STEPPERS
M300 ;BEEP
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 07, 2020, 05:19:22 pm
Thermal expansion takes up the majority of the gap - do it cold on paper, tweak minutely afterwards to get the layer right. There's no need to mess about with a hot nozzle drooling filament all over the place.

If someone could look at my post 922 and say which looks squished right, would be greatly appreciated

I really can't make anything out in those photos. Low res, out of focus, and no light.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 07, 2020, 05:23:39 pm
If someone could look at my post 922 and say which looks squished right, would be greatly appreciated

If the top looks round it isn't squished enough. 0.25 looks good to me. But 0.2 maybe too. Try to lift it and choose the one that sticked best to the bed. And remember to clean the bed or it won't stick well.

EDIT:  I notice that sometimes going into Motion/Bed Levelling  on Marlin I have the "Bed Levelling on"  (or off) option, other times it's not there.  I've just gone from TFT to Marlin and it's not there at all. That has me worried that it could be turned off. 

So under Marlin, I've rerun meshlevelling and on completion it now again shows the "Bed levelling on"  option.  I store it.  Restart into Marlin and now there's no Bed Levelling on/off option. weird.

In the printer setup (in Cura it's in Machine settings/Start Gcode) put a

Code: [Select]
G28 ;Home
M420 S1 ;ENABLE ABL

right after the G28 to enable mesh/ABL, because G28 disables it. There's also an option somewhere in config.h to enable ABL automatically with G28.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 07, 2020, 05:26:21 pm
Thermal expansion takes up the majority of the gap - do it cold on paper, tweak minutely afterwards to get the layer right. There's no need to mess about with a hot nozzle drooling filament all over the place.

The problem with that is that usually there's some solidified filament stuck in the tip of the nozzle.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 07, 2020, 05:28:21 pm
Thermal expansion takes up the majority of the gap - do it cold on paper, tweak minutely afterwards to get the layer right. There's no need to mess about with a hot nozzle drooling filament all over the place.

The problem with that is that usually there's some solidified filament stuck in the point on the nozzle.

Which can be broken off easily. It's not so easy to remove a melted gouge from your print surface.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 07, 2020, 05:37:22 pm
Which can be broken off easily. It's not so easy to remove a melted gouge from your print surface.

You're supposed to put the paper under the nozzle.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 07, 2020, 05:42:32 pm
Which can be broken off easily. It's not so easy to remove a melted gouge from your print surface.

You're supposed to put the paper under the nozzle.

Which will help not in the least if your non-rigidly-mounted bed has been knocked sufficiently out of position.

I have damaged enough of these things to know better than to hot-probe with such machines, which is why I'm advising against it. Also why every machine I use and will use has a rigid bed and either a non-contact probe or a stowable probe.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 07, 2020, 06:02:29 pm
To each his own :-)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 07, 2020, 10:24:48 pm
Thermal expansion takes up the majority of the gap - do it cold on paper, tweak minutely afterwards to get the layer right. There's no need to mess about with a hot nozzle drooling filament all over the place.

Yup... that's been my process for a while with this printer (since it turns all heaters off when I start the leveling pattern); I use a colored Post-It (the ones that are thick enough to be opaque) and fold just the sticky part over itself. This part I use as a "handle"; slipping the single thickness under the nozzle.

When you can feel drag on the paper, but can still push it back & forth without it buckling, you've got it right. If the paper buckles when you push on it, too tight. Repeat all 4 corners until you get to where you don't have to adjust any corner; this sometimes takes 3 or 4 rounds.

THEN check the center; it will most likely be right on unless you've got a bubbly plastic-coated bed or plate like mine which has gone bumpy; THAT will drive you batty until you peel it off and print right on the glass.

After that, fine-tune while watching it print the brim; usually less than 1/4 turn on any knob to get it laying down pre-fukt. :-+

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 08, 2020, 02:08:04 am
I still like the paper option. I always run the bed up to temperature first and also run the nozzle hot, the paper takes away any crud from the tip. Unless you are in a time critical operation manual works fine and you are there for those minutes while the bed heats and becomes stable regardless. The biggest bug with the Enders is not coming with a built in bed leveling routine  :wtf: Creality  :horse:

I also runs a few perimeters and watch them carefully when the prints start and tweak if it look a bit off or even stop it and redo it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on June 08, 2020, 03:40:25 am
Bed leveling problems seem to be serial number dependent, not something that everyone fights.  I have literally not had to level the bed on my Ender 3 this year.  I just plug a file in and it prints.  I did originally have some problems until I discovered that one of the cables touched the adjusting wheel during bed traverses, slowly winding it out.  A little attention to cable routing and tie down solved that.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 08, 2020, 04:15:46 am
Same here... I seldom relevel unless I've been fu**ing with something on the printer; start a print, tweak if necessary while it prints the brim, go on about my bidness. :-//

mnem
*heeding Hypnos' siren call* :=\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 08, 2020, 10:47:36 am
Thermal expansion takes up the majority of the gap - do it cold on paper, tweak minutely afterwards to get the layer right. There's no need to mess about with a hot nozzle drooling filament all over the place.

If someone could look at my post 922 and say which looks squished right, would be greatly appreciated

I really can't make anything out in those photos. Low res, out of focus, and no light.

I half agree, I could have got my DSLR out but there's a max of 5000KB of attachments per post. 

The pics were originally 4032 x 3024 pixels, around 4500KB,  I used snapit so that they could all be uploaded and compared side by side.

I zoomed in on the original before using  snapit to take the 2nd and 3rd pics.

Bearing in mind it was from this type of pic I was told that my first level wasn't squished enough.

I'm looking at them on a 27" monitor, and I also know what they looked like when on the bed, so maybe I can see -0.3 is so squished in the 3rd pic that you can see the  black base through it, only because I know it was when I saws it on the bed.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 08, 2020, 10:54:21 am

EDIT:  I notice that sometimes going into Motion/Bed Levelling  on Marlin I have the "Bed Levelling on"  (or off) option, other times it's not there.  I've just gone from TFT to Marlin and it's not there at all. That has me worried that it could be turned off. 

So under Marlin, I've rerun meshlevelling and on completion it now again shows the "Bed levelling on"  option.  I store it.  Restart into Marlin and now there's no Bed Levelling on/off option. weird.

In the printer setup (in Cura it's in Machine settings/Start Gcode) put a

Code: [Select]
G28 ;Home
M420 S1 ;ENABLE ABL

right after the G28 to enable mesh/ABL, because G28 disables it. There's also an option somewhere in config.h to enable ABL automatically with G28.

Thanks, it is enabled in config.h, which is why I find it odd that it sometimes  there and other  times it isn't. Will add it to Cura anyway.

configuration.h has the following

Quote
* - MESH_BED_LEVELING
 *   Probe a grid manually
 *   The result is a mesh, suitable for large or uneven beds. (See BILINEAR.)
 *   For machines without a probe, Mesh Bed Leveling provides a method to perform
 *   leveling in steps so you can manually adjust the Z height at each grid-point.
 *   With an LCD controller the process is guided step-by-step.
 */
//#define AUTO_BED_LEVELING_3POINT
//#define AUTO_BED_LEVELING_LINEAR
//#define AUTO_BED_LEVELING_BILINEAR
//#define AUTO_BED_LEVELING_UBL
#define MESH_BED_LEVELING

/**
 * Normally G28 leaves leveling disabled on completion. Enable
 * this option to have G28 restore the prior leveling state.
 */
#define RESTORE_LEVELING_AFTER_G28
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 08, 2020, 10:59:04 am
Bed leveling problems seem to be serial number dependent, not something that everyone fights.  I have literally not had to level the bed on my Ender 3 this year.  I just plug a file in and it prints.  I did originally have some problems until I discovered that one of the cables touched the adjusting wheel during bed traverses, slowly winding it out.  A little attention to cable routing and tie down solved that.

I may well be the same, only had printer a couple of weeks, I'm hoping once it's set up right, it stays that way.  I've just been having problems setting up right in the first place, thanks to this thread, I'm there I think.   First layer not sticking caused me to keep relevelling whereas I now know it was because it wasn't squished enough.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 08, 2020, 04:00:01 pm
Thermal expansion takes up the majority of the gap - do it cold on paper, tweak minutely afterwards to get the layer right. There's no need to mess about with a hot nozzle drooling filament all over the place.

If someone could look at my post 922 and say which looks squished right, would be greatly appreciated

I really can't make anything out in those photos. Low res, out of focus, and no light.

I half agree, I could have got my DSLR out but there's a max of 5000KB of attachments per post. 

The pics were originally 4032 x 3024 pixels, around 4500KB,  I used snapit so that they could all be uploaded and compared side by side.

I zoomed in on the original before using  snapit to take the 2nd and 3rd pics.

Bearing in mind it was from this type of pic I was told that my first level wasn't squished enough.

I'm looking at them on a 27" monitor, and I also know what they looked like when on the bed, so maybe I can see -0.3 is so squished in the 3rd pic that you can see the  black base through it, only because I know it was when I saws it on the bed.

This right here is why I still keep my old (how old? It uses Memory Stick Pro...:scared:) Sony DSC-H2 (http://www.digitalcamerareview.com/camerareview/sony-cyber-shot-dsc-h2-digital-camera-review/). The Macro feature on it is simply superb; it takes better pics than most with triple the resolution. It's not JUST the lenses or the sensor; it's how the two are matched, the whole gestalt of the thing.

Even the firmware matters; while you can only fix so much with software (as the current few generations of mostly potato-cam smartphones make so very clear) having fault-tolerant firmware IS important. Working mostly in "snapshot" mode with MACRO mode on, the AF on this thing JUST WORKS... even when shooting through my 3X-5X swingarm lamp/magnifier. :-+  While recent advances in high pixel/low-noise sensors have rendered dinosaurs like the H2 pretty much obsolete for any modern "photographer" use, for everyday use posting a few quick pics on a blog or a forum where filesize is limited, it's perfect.

This "gestalt" approach to my camera (and most of my other tools) is important in a tinkerdwagon's lair... having a convenient camera that I can grab and just "get the shot" without interrupting the workflow is critical; if I can't count on that, I'm usually not going to bother with documenting and sharing (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg3089155/#msg3089155).

I have several other cameras; tho I gave up my Rebel DSLR as NCE when it developed terminal bootloop disease a few years ago. Right now I'm flogging a LUMIX DMC-TS-20 (https://www.photographyblog.com/reviews/panasonic_lumix_dmc_ft20_review) bought for a pittance as my everyday snapshooter; waterproof is VERY nice. But the old reliable H2 still lives on my desk/workbench and still gets used pretty much every day.

mnem
(https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/coffee_L.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 08, 2020, 05:06:04 pm
Today has been interesting.

Trying to compile the firmware with 7 points set, it chugged away for about an hour before I stopped it.

In the end I uninstalled PlatformIO, then VSCode, re-installed VSCode.  Then tried to install PlatformIO, but it couldn't find python .........

Anyway I got rid of the python that was installed, installed the latest python,  told PlatformIO where it was and bingo, it compiled perfectly in about 2 mins.

I upgraded the printer and ran the 49 point bed level test.  What was interesting was how different two points next to each other were.

Just ran the same bed level test as yesterday and with Bed Z set to 0.00 it's all nicely squished and sticking fine, so I'm going to leave it alone now :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on June 08, 2020, 05:10:51 pm
New bigtreetech TFT fimware available, details at link below. Worked OK for me but as always install at your own risk ...  :-DD

https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-TouchScreenFirmware
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 08, 2020, 05:17:18 pm
New bigtreetech TFT fimware available, details at link below. Worked OK for me but as always install at your own risk ...  :-DD

https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-TouchScreenFirmware

Just managed to get Octoprint onto my Raspberry pi and move my printing head around with it from my PC :)  Was about to test/adjust/configure my extruder but I might as well give the new firmware a try before I continue  :-DD   
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 08, 2020, 05:47:02 pm
That seemed to work, yay
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 08, 2020, 07:08:20 pm
Oklay... since we're just controlling these machines via serial anyways, how far away is this whole mess from a workable HC-05/HC-06 module and an app on our phone/tablet?

I'm sure somebody is working on it; who knows where I'd look?

Let me rephrase that... there are oodles of folks with vids on the easy part; hacking the module. Any 1d10t can do that, even me. I'm talking about a reasonably civilized GUI for the host device; maybe with capability for customization that won't break your brain. Does somebody have any decent progress on THAT...?

mnem
moo?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 08, 2020, 07:46:34 pm
Quote
I'm talking about a reasonably civilized GUI for the host device; maybe with capability for customization that won't break your brain. Does somebody have any decent progress on THAT...?

Yes, ESP3D:

https://github.com/luc-github/ESP3D
https://github.com/luc-github/ESP3D-WEBUI
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 08, 2020, 09:51:09 pm
Yes, ESP3D: https://github.com/luc-github/ESP3D

Ummm... not what I was looking for. The last thing I want is ANOTHER WiFi node on my network, and all the connectivity headaches associated with that.   :o

Also, not interested in adding another potential soldier for SkyNet, or another cell in somebody's botnet. :palm: I disable WiFi on my 2D printers for the same reason.

mnem
Just say "No, thank you."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jeroen3 on June 09, 2020, 05:53:24 am
OctoPrint  (https://octoprint.org/)exists, works great-ish, you can even link it to an Spaghetti  (https://www.google.com/search?q=3d+print+Spaghetti)Detecting  (https://www.thespaghettidetective.com/)AI.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 09, 2020, 09:41:35 am
What I was looking for was software to run on my pi where I can use the gui on the pi it's self rather than remotely logging in from my PC. 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 09, 2020, 10:20:37 am
After a ton of tests I  worked out that mine is the opposite, a positive Bed Z causes the print head to be further away from the bed, a negative one causes it to be closer.

Yes that's right, my bad, sorry. So BED Z is the Z at which the bed rests after a level corners. Should be (minus) the paper thickness= -0.1mm.

Try this gcode to test your saved mesh. It 1)heats the bed (to 60˚C) and nozzle (to 200˚C), 2)Does a home, 3)turns on ABL and then 4)moves the nozzle from X 40..200 Y 40..200 in a grid 40 mm apart to Z=0.1 so that you can feel the height with a paper. Click to move from a point to the next.

SNIP...

Hmm, tried it, code worked as you described but bared no resemblance to my meshleveling. Some points were OK, but most were either (usually) much too loose (in that the paper doesn't rub at all)  or so tight the paper couldn't   move.

After running this, I rerun my first layer test (without changing anything) and it came out perfectly.

Thanks for your help, I think I will leave this for now, it appears to be working on my test prints, so I will forget about it until something goes wrong :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 09, 2020, 10:42:53 am
Thanks for your help, I think I will leave this for now, it appears to be working on my test prints, so I will forget about it until something goes wrong :)

 :-+

'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on June 09, 2020, 12:14:31 pm
Thanks for your help, I think I will leave this for now, it appears to be working on my test prints, so I will forget about it until something goes wrong :)

OK, come back   if    when it breaks again.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 09, 2020, 01:25:31 pm
What I was looking for was software to run on my pi where I can use the gui on the pi it's self rather than remotely logging in from my PC.

Similar need here... I want a local app, connected by bluetooth. I do NOT want everything I own connected to the intardnet. :palm: If somebody hacks my printer via bluetooth, I know I only have to walk stalk for a few hundred yards with shotgun in hand... ::)

mnem
 |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 09, 2020, 01:46:49 pm
Similar need here... I want a local app, connected by bluetooth. I do NOT want everything I own connected to the intardnet. :palm: If somebody hacks my printer via bluetooth, I know I only have to walk stalk for a few hundred yards with shotgun in hand... ::)

LOL

You can do ~ that with ESP3D: Set it up as an access point and dial down TX power => no interwebs connection and always within shotgun range.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 09, 2020, 04:02:39 pm
I guess I just don't understand why everybody hates BT now.  :-//  So much wasted BW setting up a web server on a single device and direct RF conflicts with existing WiFi infrastructure, when for the most part BT just WORKS. Not so much with rando implementations of a web server...  |O

mnem
*total rando*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 09, 2020, 04:12:22 pm

[...] Similar need here... I want a local app, connected by bluetooth [...]

I guess I just don't understand why everybody hates BT now.  :-//  So much wasted BW setting up a web server on a single device and direct RF conflicts with existing WiFi infrastructure, when for the most part BT just WORKS. Not so much with rando implementations of a web server...  |O

Here's an advantage: you only need the browser, instead of a zillion different apps, one for each device. BTW who hates BT?

Quote
direct RF conflicts with existing WiFi infrastructure

Doesn't BT run on the same GHz band as WiFi?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 09, 2020, 05:44:52 pm
While I'm sure I'll find out soon enough, if I buy 4 different colours of the same brand, do I only need to tweak settings for one of them?

Thinking along the lines of different chemicals/things being used to make the different colours, hence possibly make each colour slightly different.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 09, 2020, 05:45:42 pm
While I'm sure I'll find out soon enough, if I buy 4 different colours of the same brand, do I only need to tweak settings for one of them?

Usually.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 09, 2020, 06:41:48 pm

[...] Similar need here... I want a local app, connected by bluetooth [...]

I guess I just don't understand why everybody hates BT now.  :-//  So much wasted BW setting up a web server on a single device and direct RF conflicts with existing WiFi infrastructure, when for the most part BT just WORKS. Not so much with rando implementations of a web server...  |O

Here's an advantage: you only need one browser, instead of a zillion different apps, one for each device. BTW who hates BT?

Quote
direct RF conflicts with existing WiFi infrastructure

Doesn't BT run on the same GHz band as WiFi?

Android & iOS are both *NIX derivatives; tho the assache of App Store validation is a genuine gripe I cannot deny. Windoze... *sigh* But really, by now the whole world has come to grips with the idea of writing apps with all 3 major platforms in mind; just like writing html with all the major browsers and desktop/mobile rendering in mind. :-//

With the advent of fApple releasing sanely-priced iPads a few years ago, all-platform households are an everyday thing. I get that serving ALL platforms is a PITA that most hobbyists are not gonna wanna tackle; they're gonna concentrate on whichever platform is their personal favorite, which often means PC/*NIX, the one that MOST normal people find daunting to work with.  I'm a pretty nerdy sort, and have dabbled in *NIX... and I STILL find it daunting.  :palm: Of the remaining platforms, I wouldn't care WHICH the app came on...

BT uses the same band but different frequency allocations within that band. Part of the reason the BT mouse on your laptop works seamlessly even with a WiFi connection at 100x the power in the same 400mm2 footprint.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 09, 2020, 08:32:39 pm
If you set the esp32 in AP mode and leave the WiFi channel empty, it automatically chooses a channel that's free (if there's one).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 10, 2020, 03:38:57 pm
Thought I'd try blue. A quick layer test while I make a coffee     :-DD     :-DD     :-DD

[attachimg=1]

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 10, 2020, 04:46:38 pm
"I shall call my new masterpiece... 'Ode to all the Blue-Hairs (https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=blue%20hair)!' "

mnem
 :P
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on June 10, 2020, 06:38:58 pm
Thought I'd try blue. A quick layer test while I make a coffee     :-DD     :-DD     :-DD

What did you leave for ... a day?  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jeroen3 on June 10, 2020, 06:59:24 pm
Look at my top x-axis rod on prusa mk3s. Isn't it a beauty.

I also found the culprit. I guess the lesson is to always lube your rod before use?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 10, 2020, 07:01:35 pm
Yeah, afaik they still don't have you lube the bearings during assembly. The shipping oil is not designed for running with.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jeroen3 on June 10, 2020, 07:13:22 pm
My package didn't even include any lube. I did buy it though, since the Y-axis had jammed. Tested some igus bearings (dry linear sliders) but those won't mount right.

I have read that today they do ship them with lube. But it's not in the instructions yet I think.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 10, 2020, 07:23:35 pm
There's really no way to mount an Igus bushing without a block, and even then they're very, very sensitive about alignment.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 10, 2020, 08:26:16 pm
The worst and most troublesome part of a 3d printer is always the extruder/hot end if you ask me, the X, Y and Z usually work quite well. Even with plastic wheels as in the crealitys.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 10, 2020, 08:29:14 pm
Thought I'd try blue. A quick layer test while I make a coffee     :-DD     :-DD     :-DD

"back to the drawing board" ...   :-//

A suggestion: check you printer's Z for repeatabilty. Delete all but the first point in the gcode I sent you, and run it a few times in a row. Maybe the end stop or something is loose?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jeroen3 on June 10, 2020, 08:48:16 pm
There's really no way to mount an Igus bushing without a block, and even then they're very, very sensitive about alignment.
I used the full plastic ones, since they were obtainable. I think I need these metal lined ones.
https://www.igus.nl/product/1195 (https://www.igus.nl/product/1195)
But those are unobtainium.

Meanwhile I did order a new rods and bearing package from misumi, those seem the be the brand. But $$$. However I really liked the silence of the igus....
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 10, 2020, 11:11:27 pm
Currently very annoyed with what appears to be 2 areas of my new CReality clone Ultrabase that are way out of true; as in 0.15mm or more of wavy from high to low across 30-40mm or so. I need to do some more diag to eliminate possible inconsistencies in the tracks tho. :o

I don't fancy going back to mirror tiles & hairspray; that's why I spent the bux on this stuff, dangit. But I will if this really is the state of the art right now...   :bullshit:

mnem
 :scared:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 11, 2020, 09:31:42 am
Thought I'd try blue. A quick layer test while I make a coffee     :-DD     :-DD     :-DD

"back to the drawing board" ...   :-//

A suggestion: check you printer's Z for repeatabilty. Delete all but the first point in the gcode I sent you, and run it a few times in a row. Maybe the end stop or something is loose?

What  I've done is reflash firmware (to triple check all saved adjustments have gone).

I then ran CHEP_Ender_3_bed_level.gcode.  It does 9 points.  First time everything was way out.

I ran it again and point 1 was very loose, points 2 - 8 were fine. However when it was point 9 (same pos as point 1) now it was very tight.

[attachimg=1]

I ran it about 10 times in a row, the first 7 all had the same result, the last 3 it was totally fine.  Then I tried about an hour later, first time perfect, 2nd time back to point one being loose and point 9 being tight ..  then after a few tries it fixed it's self and was perfect no matter how many times more I tired that session.

I then ran your test with just the first point  (same as position 1/9 in previous test). It was so tight it ripped the paper.  I then retried about another 10 times (nothing adjusted) and the remaining 9 times it was perfect.

(note, no filament in for any of these tests and no heated bed/nozzle)

So something is going astray somewhere, it could be a dodgy z axis switch, however I moved the z axis up 100mm and back down, as it was coming down, I pressed the z switch numerous times and it ignored it,  making me think it's only being used with the home command.

I'm going to strip it down and completely rebuild it as I noticed another problem (that I checked before when I built it, and it seemed fine)  It doesn't appear 100% square anymore. The very far right two rollers on the x, when the z is at or near the bottom, I can easily turn these (they don't spin, but they are not tight) yet when I move the z axis near the top, they are both tight.  Although I would have thought if this was causing my problems, the two right corners would constantly be out rather than just the bottom left.

Z stop is solid.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 11, 2020, 09:43:56 am
Found the problem, very very loose. Obviously too paranoid about tightening it too much when I built it, due to plastic bracket. Will do it a lot tighter and put thread lock on it

Z motor loose (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI4IMrTUzvE)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on June 11, 2020, 11:03:43 am
Found the problem, very very loose. Obviously too paranoid about tightening it too much when I built it, due to plastic bracket. Will do it a lot tighter and put thread lock on it

Yea man it's got to be a loose part or something like that. I've never had the leveling issues you've been having.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 11, 2020, 11:48:16 am
Motor fixed, frame now as square as I can get it, 10 times better than it was.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on June 11, 2020, 03:04:14 pm
Found the problem, very very loose. Obviously too paranoid about tightening it too much when I built it, due to plastic bracket. Will do it a lot tighter and put thread lock on it

Z motor loose (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI4IMrTUzvE)
I'm sure I've seen this in "how to improve your Ender 3" videos. I think some modifications could fix the problem. I'll try to find a link later.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 11, 2020, 05:25:28 pm
Spent about 8 hours on it, rebuilt/adjusted  everything (even most things that came assembled).

I did extrusion tests using octoprint and found it to be too far out to be probable, so I read up on it, someone had the same, spring not strong enough, I retried the test putting slight pressure on the  spring, this time it was spot on.   In the end, I put the original cog and the new spring on the aluminium extruder did a test and it's perfect.  (yes I know I changed it all before when the spring was too strong lol).

Anyway, everything adjusted as perfect as possible, Installed the original SKR mini firmware (as that has INIT EEPROM option) , then flashed my firmware, did the mesh leveling, and tried a test print.

[attachimg=1]

As you can see it's come out perfectly yay. Should have done all this a couple of weeks ago :)

Many thanks for all your help and patience
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 11, 2020, 06:36:43 pm
Found the problem, very very loose. Obviously too paranoid about tightening it too much when I built it, due to plastic bracket. Will do it a lot tighter and put thread lock on it

Z motor loose (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NI4IMrTUzvE)

Urrgh. If my CR-6SE comes with plastic brackets, I'm gonna definitely find/fab some metal replacements. Plastic flows under compression. :-//

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 11, 2020, 08:30:27 pm
Found the problem, very very loose. Obviously too paranoid about tightening it too much when I built it, due to plastic bracket. Will do it a lot tighter and put thread lock on it

Yeah that's not good, LOL. In a CR10S I bought recently, the screws of the "nuts" in the brackets at both ends of the X axis, where the Z threaded rod screws on to, weren't tight. Have you also checked those?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on June 12, 2020, 01:14:48 pm
So .... the problem was that someone had a screw loose....

...

...

 ::)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 12, 2020, 04:09:48 pm
Found the problem, very very loose. Obviously too paranoid about tightening it too much when I built it, due to plastic bracket. Will do it a lot tighter and put thread lock on it

Yeah that's not good, LOL. In a CR10S I bought recently, the screws of the "nuts" in the brackets at both ends of the X axis, where the Z threaded rod screws on to, weren't tight. Have you also checked those?

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1002577;image)

That's why anti-backlash leadscrew nuts and a 5/16" ball as thrust-bearing inside the Z-coupler (or replace it with one of the rigid ones like CReality uses) are two of the first mods I do on any cheap printer; usually while assembling it. They're cheap as chips and it makes a huge difference in the Z-axis accuracy/repeatability.

Also, NEVER mount your Z-stepper so the weight HANGS FROM the coupler.  :palm:

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 12, 2020, 07:50:57 pm
So I decide to print some addons but my wife interrupted me and says as I have blue filament, I have to print a smurf :)

So I printed out the blue bits, 8 hrs later they came out fine

[attachimg=1]

However, I'm not sure I did the support right in Cura, and now I'm struggling to get it off. I've tried on an arm and as you can see it's left a lot behind

[attachimg=2]

and the base of the head is a lot thicker

[attachimg=3]

Is there a knack to this? hairdryer etc?

thanks


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on June 13, 2020, 03:17:07 am
I have found that a sharp knife inserted at the part line between the support and the object results in a clean peel.  I do usually use zig-zag support with connected option.  Once you get the first support line separated it peels the rest off like a zipper.  You seem to have used a grid (or maybe cross) pattern.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 13, 2020, 04:07:12 am
Grid pattern helps reduce stringing on the part on large areas. I use it for that reason sometimes. It is a bit of a pain in the tuchus compared to the zigzag tho; I usually avoid it where the ugly surface it leaves can be a cosmetic problem. Otherwise, time to get the sandpaper and paint out. ;)

mnem
*toddles off to ded*

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 13, 2020, 08:52:23 am
I have found that a sharp knife inserted at the part line between the support and the object results in a clean peel.  I do usually use zig-zag support with connected option.  Once you get the first support line separated it peels the rest off like a zipper.  You seem to have used a grid (or maybe cross) pattern.

I didn't have the option to show the support pattern. When I enabled the option, it shows as zig zag.  Might reprint one arm to see if there's any difference.

I also don't think I placed them correctly in cura, the head had about 4mm (5/32) under the entire thing.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 13, 2020, 04:14:14 pm
What slicer are you using, HG? I use the E3 profile in Cura pretty much all the time since I modded it to eliminate the "non-permissible areas"; I can choose support type and density.

Click Settings; at the bottom of the drop-down you'll see "Configure Settings Visibility". From there you should be able to enable any setting you can imagine... Cura has, if anything, too many settings.  :-DD They had to do this because, I imagine, a lot of noobs were looking at the list of settings and just having brain-freezure at all the wall-of-text and terms which they had no idea what they meant.   :o

It is a bit confusing; what I've learned so far about Cura has been from reading here:   https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/sections/360003548619-Print-settings and then enabling settings I think might be helpful. From there, you can get a lot of info about each setting by hovering over it with the cursor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSHWGLNhUeM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QSHWGLNhUeM)

Good luck, and welcome to the "free-fall" part of "Down the Rabbit-Hole"...  :-DD

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 13, 2020, 04:44:06 pm
I had a play earlier.

I tried reprinting one of the arms, I altered the position slightly, got it to lay flat on the back of the arm, used tree support, and while the support came off easily, as you can see from the photo, the back of the arm looks pretty awful (OK tiny bits of support to remove here and there).  Is there something I should have done to make it better?  (will watch your vid Mnementh)

[attachimg=1]

thanks
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 14, 2020, 12:49:01 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1002936;image)

That stringing is a problem I'm having myself on this 4-part project box. In all honesty, I've been thinking about remixing it to get rid of the channels on the bottom and just live with the results.

No, I'm NOT interested in printing it on its side, no matter how much easier that would make it. ;)

mnem
 |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 14, 2020, 12:47:38 pm
I tried reprinting the arm vertically.

First attempt was sliced like this

[attachimg=1]


Ended up with a ball of string on the table, so I tried again the other way up, sliced like this

[attachimg=2]


This came out fine

[attachimg=3]


And as you can see from the following two pics, looks a lot better (this ones on left, old ones on right)

[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 14, 2020, 04:53:46 pm
See? Just goes to prove that there's more than one way to skin a cat... err, Smurf.  :-DD

mnem
Murphy's a bitch, and she has puppies.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 14, 2020, 05:33:57 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1003228;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1003232;image)

The backer survey with add-ons/spares has been sent out; I got a few extras. Per the latest updates here: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit/posts/2864062 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit/posts/2864062)

all Kickstarter orders will include the 32-bit MB w/TMC2209 drivers, 10x 0.4mm nozzle, & 0.4m spare PTFE Bowden tube (NOT Capricorn).

I ordered 2 of the Autoleveling Strain gauge (it's a flexplate with embedded piezo sensor) because a) cheap, b) it is one of the few moving parts that cannot easily be duplicated, so spares and 3) so I could tinker with alternate hotends without having to dismantle the printer. Same reasoning behind the hotend, tho cost made me decide against getting two.

I got a spare build plate & extruder mostly because they'll never be cheaper than $5 & $10 with free shipping. :-+

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1003230;image)

The only thing I REALLY wish they offered that wasn't in the list was the sub-board that the piezo sensor plugs into; I see that as a potential printer-killer point of failure. It carries the signal from the piezo sensor plus the temp, fan & power for the hotend, and that ribbon cable plugs into a socket which appears to be entirely supported by the solder joints.(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=971254;image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=953118;image)

Some form of strain relief right there is going to be one of my first priorities when it arrives, ferr sherr; just like I did when I first got the Diggro: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2974438/#msg2974438

But for now, the hard part will be the waiting...

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=916064;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 15, 2020, 01:48:53 pm
And I'm back :)

My extruder has gone back to juddering/skipping, even tried putting original plastic one back.

I can get it so the cog  doesn't judder by just having the spring, but then when it's extruding, it doesn't always move the filament (I can hold the filament with next to zero pressure and stop it going through, hence it's under-extruding loads).

Or I make it so there's more pressure on the spring and I can't stop it moving with slight pressure,. but then the motors juddering like mad.

Going to take nozzle and tube holder off and check nothings blocking in there, but it seems to be coming out fine. If I take the tube off the head, there's no juddering at all, so it's as though it's when it's forcing the plastic through the nozzle that is  causing the cog to slip.

Very odd
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 15, 2020, 02:22:16 pm
You may have an open winding (ie. a bad cable).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 15, 2020, 02:58:24 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1003530;image)

Sounds to me like your filament may be soft enough that the roller is compressing it (usually a sign of too much spring pressure) and it can't advance once stuck in the divot...

Filament after pull will look sortof like this pic of grinding filament, but the teethmarks from the pinion will be present in the divot as well and there will not be any filament powder/flakes from grinding. Roller side of the filament may also exhibit some deformation and appear extra-shiny.

Also, you may not have stepper current set correctly. Have you done that yet? One of the most common errors found on kits is all the steppers preset to the same VREF; the extruder VREF is usually set to a fair bit higher on direct-drive models.

The original E3 controller used 4988 drivers; they max out at 1.0A so CReality tended to drive them conservatively at ~0.73A for X/Y/Z and 0.90A for E (They  derated to 75%/90%). The TMC2208s on your SKR Mini will drive up to 1.2A continuous, so you do not need to be so conservative; most of the stepper motors on these cheap printers can handle 1.5A drive current continuous duty, so your limit is still the driver, NOT the stepper motor.

Using the calculator on their website, this means the V1.0 (standalone mode) TMC2208s can be set to as high a VREF as 1.69V for 1.2A. https://wiki.fysetc.com/TMC2208/

If your mainboard supports the V1.2 2208 or 2209 drivers, this can be set in the firmware using post-codes; I haven't gotten into that process myself yet except theoretically. I'm pretty sure your MB instructions (or Monkeh, since he's back ;)) can explain it better than I can.

Good luck!

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 16, 2020, 01:34:00 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1003761;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1003759;image)

Mundane everyday useful item print number 75: 26mm bead-pull for the height adjuster ratchet on my son's newly-refurbished basketball goal. *yawwwwnnnn*

You may recognize this part from Mundane everyday useful item print number 73 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg3078589/#msg3078589); it is the same model I made for the monkey-drum beads, only blown up 200% and .20mm LH in Cura for a quick print.

*SWISHHH!!!* was just a lucky click... ;)

mnem
 >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 16, 2020, 09:50:20 am
I'm hoping I've worked out where the problem is.  When I took the  nozzle and pneumatic connector off, the release on the connector wouldn't move at all, even with it at 200, it took a lot of force before the release mechanism finally moved allowing me to pull tube out.  That tells me there must have been a lot of pla gunge in there, even though hole looks clean once nozzle and connector removed.

I've found a guide to fix this, will give it a try later. 

On a separate note: things like fan housings for the printer, can they be made in PLA?

Thanks
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on June 16, 2020, 11:09:15 am
On a separate note: things like fan housings for the printer, can they be made in PLA?

Yep. Mine is. There are lots of fan housings and cooling ducts available on Thingiverse.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 16, 2020, 04:39:16 pm
The hot end was quite clogged. Cleaned it up, new nozzle and nut, did tube as per a vid I found (put tube in fully with pneumatic nut slightly loose, then tighten nut.

Also finally calibrated my e-step, was only fractionally out, was 97.95, now 99.59.

Grey AMZ3D filament works fine, the other filaments I bought cheap off facebook, had to up the current on the motor to get it to work fine,  wish I hadn't bought them. Trouble is Amazon UK  doesn't seem to have any decent 1.75 PLA.

The 4 rolls I bought off facebook group (Filament Deals & Discounts) 4 rolls for £60 delivered. Knew it would be too good to be true although  others say it's all they use now as it's a decent filament at a decent price.   

I've since noticed a post where the guy/home shop  that I purchased it from says the following 

"Some of you may wonder why our PLA doesn’t consist silica gel inside. The answer is that our PLA is modified in that way that it doesn’t absorb moisture from air over time. We still do have some rolls that are few years old and still print fine!" 

That would have made me question it (and at least ask if such a thing is feasible)

Anyway, it doesn't print bad (the blue smurf was that stuff), but it is a little brittle.  When I  opened the rolls (only tried 2), where the end of the filament was fed through 2 holes on the spool, that snapped as I removed it.  The rest doesn't exactly snap, it's just that the not very good AMZ3D stuff can be bent back and forth about 10 times more without snapping than the other filament I bought, which may partly be why I was having so many extruder problems, if it's a lot drier, then it will disintegrate easier when the roller is pressing it.

Ah well, you live and learn :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 16, 2020, 04:45:33 pm
PLA is a little snappy, but usually it's made worse by being moist or UV exposure.. Your Facebook wonder filament sounds like someone reselling bulk Chinese filament and cutting costs on, y'know, proper packaging.

I'll just plug Ooznest again. Sure, they've got four rolls of a vaguely bad gold and one roll of pastel green I wouldn't use at gunpoint, but.. they do have some of the PLA Pro in, but it is 32 quid a roll.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 16, 2020, 04:49:25 pm
On a separate note: things like fan housings for the printer, can they be made in PLA?

Yep. Mine is. There are lots of fan housings and cooling ducts available on Thiniverse.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=975808;image)

Yup; mine too. Come over to the 'fang side; we have cookies (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2759439). And enough "butt-ugly" to serve a 3rd-world nation.  :-DD

The PetsFang comes in two flavors for E3; the modular which allows you to fit various aftermarket hotends, and the BullsEye which is designed to recycle all your existing hotend and fans.

My main drive for going 'fang was to get rid of the small, noisy fans while improving layer cooling (which pretty much sucked bunge wherever bridging was required) so I went with the V2 Modular; end result was about 10dB below stock. The 5015 squirrelcage layer fan is a fair bit louder than the 4010 mine came with; but that was recycled to replaced the 3010 screamer on the heat-break. :-+

mnem
 8)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 16, 2020, 05:01:26 pm
PLA ducts are fine if you're printing PLA. Run a bit hotter with less flow for PETG or ABS and they start getting a bit melty. Even PETG ducts don't last long.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 16, 2020, 05:17:09 pm
I've been watching a print of the cheap PLA, and noticed something.  When the PLA is taught, every now and then it's pushing in the extrude filament  release bit as it tugs from the spool. 

Maybe I'm wasting my time printing filament guide and should instead print something to move my spool elsewhere.  Have to do this  at some point to fit into the space (don't want shelf any higher).

Pic doesn't show how much space there is behind printer very well, but if I move spool away from top, can push printer back about 10 cm (4 inches)

[attachimg=1]



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 16, 2020, 07:01:19 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=965576;image)

Yes, but if you put it right on the edge of the desk, or flipped the holder around so the filament hangs from the front, could do the same thing as well.  :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 16, 2020, 09:47:20 pm
I've been watching a print of the cheap PLA, and noticed something.  When the PLA is taught, every now and then it's pushing in the extrude filament  release bit as it tugs from the spool. 

Maybe I'm wasting my time printing filament guide and should instead print something to move my spool elsewhere.  Have to do this  at some point to fit into the space (don't want shelf any higher).

Pic doesn't show how much space there is behind printer very well, but if I move spool away from top, can push printer back about 10 cm (4 inches)

(Attachment Link)

Give one of these a go https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg1913924/#msg1913924 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg1913924/#msg1913924)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jeroen3 on June 17, 2020, 05:54:55 am
On a separate note: things like fan housings for the printer, can they be made in PLA?
I printed a few PETG fan shrouds for the prusa but they last about 20 print hours. Can't print ABS, so bought some new ABS ones fro prusa and tried printing one with PET-HT (HT5300 (https://www.3djake.nl/nexeo/amphoratm-ht5300-white)), which aside from difficult prints works just as good as ABS!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 17, 2020, 11:28:48 am
And here I go again.

Set off a print, watched the first few layers, came back a couple of hours later to find the printer had hung.  Nothing on the screen did anything.

[attachimg=1]

Powered off, back on, screen completely blank.  Powered off, pulled plug, powered on, then put plug back and powered on, still blank.

Powered off, pulled cable from extruder motor, powered on and it came on fine.

powered off, put cable back, powered on and it came on fine (am going to check cable).

Took sd card out, put into PC didn't show up.

Went into disk manager and disk management just stays on "connecting to Virtual Service"   I wait 5 mins, nothing.  I remove sd card and instantly disk manager appears.

I try again just to double check it wasn't a coincidence (knew it wasn't but still), disk manager has same message until I remove SD card.

So something fried my SD card too.

Getting a little frustrating now :)

EDIT:  It's plugged into a UPS so wasn't anything to do with power spikes etc
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 17, 2020, 12:23:30 pm
Getting a little frustrating now :)

No wonder.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 17, 2020, 02:07:50 pm
Googling, it appears SD card dying is a common cause.

Will try again with different SD card
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on June 17, 2020, 02:53:03 pm
The USB-microSD adapter supplied by with Ender3 has died for me also.  I am quite happy with my Ender3, but when you aim for absolute bottom price point things can't be first rate in quality.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 17, 2020, 04:23:30 pm
As a caution; some of the cheap μSD card readers will kill the card; I don't know what the cause is, aside from just plain crap-ness.

Some online research indicated it was a level-shifting fault or lack of proper voltage regulation. Still a form of crap-ness, IMO. I lost several cards to two such cheap readers on different occasions, including a 64GB card full of un-backed-up pics of my kids from my phone; I was actually trying to get them off the card when it was murdered by the cheap reader. |O

Point being: do yourself a favor and only use readers you build yourself from scratch or that come as a kit from a reputable name brand, or an adapter in the SD card slot of your laptop.

Throw the cheap-cheap giveaway readers in the trash, EVERY ONE OF THEM. They're worth exactly what you paid for them, and they have a high probability of costing you data that is worth far more.

Also, Orico brand ANYTHING has a HIGH probability of shiteness. Learned the HARD way. :palm:

mnem
Learn from my mistakes; don't repeat them.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 18, 2020, 11:45:54 pm
The USB-microSD adapter supplied by with Ender3 has died for me also.  I am quite happy with my Ender3, but when you aim for absolute bottom price point things can't be first rate in quality.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3SMUpNH_6I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3SMUpNH_6I)

The sad part is that there are like a whole 2-3 (4-5? 6-7?) LOWER QUALITY echelons of China-direct 3DP available to the unsuspecting noob. There are still people selling Acrylic-framed and worse crap everyday. CReality is actually one of the BETTER "Cheap China-direct" 3DP product lines out there; nowhere even CLOSE to "absolute bottom price point". :o

mnem
Yes, the bar CAN always go lower. :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 19, 2020, 02:19:03 am
Touch wood all three of my Creality SD/USB adapters are fine so  :-// maybe I won the lottery or maybe I am not as rough as some  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on June 19, 2020, 12:32:32 pm
Ahh, Bean .... leading with the chin, are we?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 19, 2020, 05:44:09 pm
Two steps forward, one step backwards as usual for me  :-DD

After my hang (which was just the SD card) it had sat there at 205 degrees for about 2 hours.

End result, back to juddering extruder and really hard to push filament through hot end.

So I ordered some Capricorn tubing and took the hot end to pieces to make sure there was zero gunk in it.  There was about 1cm of solid gunk stuck in the end of the bowden tube.

Everything clean, new nozzle, new pneumatic nut supplied with the capricorn, put it all back together and printer halts as soon as I turn it on with thermal runnout error. Removed thermistor and heater again and spotted the problem straight away. When I tightened the thermister screw it's pierced both sides of the insulation grrrrr

Will order some from amazon.   Presume using heat shrink on a hot end is a very bad idea.

I will get there, it's not going to beat me :)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 19, 2020, 06:22:00 pm
Two steps forward, one step backwards as usual for me  :-DD

After my hang (which was just the SD card) it had sat there at 205 degrees for about 2 hours.

End result, back to juddering extruder and really hard to push filament through hot end.

So I ordered some Capricorn tubing and took the hot end to pieces to make sure there was zero gunk in it.  There was about 1cm of solid gunk stuck in the end of the bowden tube.

Everything clean, new nozzle, new pneumatic nut supplied with the capricorn, put it all back together and printer halts as soon as I turn it on with thermal runnout error. Removed thermistor and heater again and spotted the problem straight away. When I tightened the thermister screw it's pierced both sides of the insulation grrrrr

Will order some from amazon.   Presume using heat shrink on a hot end is a very bad idea.

I will get there, it's not going to beat me :)

A little Kapton tape will resolve this. I tend to use it a little more than is ahem... normal; one can hide a multitude of sins under the aegis of its golden-hued layers. :-+

If you don't have a roll, you can often find small amounts to salvage being used to protect delicate bits of electronics and in battery packs; you literally need just a CM or two for this.

Also, just BARELY snug that screw down.  ;)

mnem
*lessons hard-learned*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 19, 2020, 11:21:12 pm
Thanks. Got 5 rolls in different widths.

Answers always obvious when someone points it out to you.



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 19, 2020, 11:37:34 pm
Oh lordy, ain't that but the truth. :palm:

mnem
"...and hindsight is always 20/20 vision." ~grand-dad
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 20, 2020, 01:32:47 am
Two steps forward, one step backwards as usual for me  :-DD

After my hang (which was just the SD card) it had sat there at 205 degrees for about 2 hours.

End result, back to juddering extruder and really hard to push filament through hot end.

So I ordered some Capricorn tubing and took the hot end to pieces to make sure there was zero gunk in it.  There was about 1cm of solid gunk stuck in the end of the bowden tube.

Everything clean, new nozzle, new pneumatic nut supplied with the capricorn, put it all back together and printer halts as soon as I turn it on with thermal runnout error. Removed thermistor and heater again and spotted the problem straight away. When I tightened the thermister screw it's pierced both sides of the insulation grrrrr

Will order some from amazon.   Presume using heat shrink on a hot end is a very bad idea.

I will get there, it's not going to beat me :)


Stick at it  ;D That plug is common and comes in part from the Bowden not being seated flush with the nozzle. That end cut has to be at a true 90 or you will get oozing.

Way back when https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg1936516/#msg1936516 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg1936516/#msg1936516)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDq1Du9gaWM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tDq1Du9gaWM)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 21, 2020, 10:00:25 pm
Something very weird is going on :)

New Capricorn Bowden tube correctly fitted along with new nozzle.

Also fitted new thermistor (had already ordered them before mnementh suggested Kapton tape)

While I was at it, rechecked all wiring and swapped over the extruder and the X axis cable at both ends to rule out any problem with the extruder cable.

Also fitted silicon springs.

Levelled bed using Cheps bed level gcode, then did 25 point mesh levelling. Remembered to store it.

Ran Cheps bed level test and it came out perfect.

So decided to print a temp tower in case themistor reported slightly different temps.  180 - 220, one I've printed many times before.

Printed this from the SD card in the touch screen port, watched the first few layers and it went very well.   So I left it to it.  Checked back a while later all was OK. Then it printed the 190 level, then produced nothing but string for 180.    My initial thought was the themistor is reporting the wrong temps and the 180 it reported was much lower.

However.

I tried to print again and it couldn't read anything on the SD card.  I put the SD card into my PC and it read it correctly. I formatted the SD card and recopied the files over to it. It still couldn't find any files.  So I put them on a microsd card and plugged it into the main board.

This worked fine, I tried printing the same temp tower, wondering if the touch screen is playing up (causing problems with SD card), the first section, 220 went down totally fine but this time, when it started the 215 level, string started to come out.

At that point I turned it off and had a beer .

Just gone back, turned it on and now the SD card that wouldn't read in the touch screen earlier, now works totally fine (decent SanDisk Extreme SD)

Wondered if it had lost it's meshleveling at some point, so connected it to octoprint, sent it M503 and sure enough, all mesh levelling details are there.


I just sent it M109 S200  and when up to temp sent it G1 E100 F100  it only fed about 80mm and yet again I can see/hear extruder jumping.

While nozzle at 200, tried to push filament through and it was very very very hard.  As though nozzle is blocked again. 

When I fitted the bowden tube, I took the entire hot end off and to pieces , triple checking everything. I had the 10mm pneumatic nut firmly secured, the steel bit that goes into the heater block was down just enough so that when the nozzle was tightened right up, there was a 0.5 mm gap between nozzle and heater block (the nozzle was screwed against the steel).  Then I removed the nozzle, fed the bowden tube through until it was a fraction past the steel tube (and I pulled on the tube to check it didn't rise back up).  I then reassembled everything, bought it to 200 degrees and then put the nozzle on and tightened it.  It's almost impossible for there to be another gap there now.

So I've just raised the nozzle temp to 250, filament pushes through easily, even if I feed through filament really fast, zero extruder juddering, I resent it the 100mm test and it was spot on.  This is PLA that says 180 - 220 on it.

Going to bed now and will take another look tomorrow, might put original board and screen on and see what happens there.


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 22, 2020, 12:12:29 am
The correct procedure for ensuring no slop in the Bowden is as follows:

First, remove the pneu fitting and inspect the throat of the extruder; make sure there is no foreign matter in there to interfere with the tube sealing flush.

If you're unsure whether the throat is correctly clear, use a allen wrench and a Sharpie as a depth finder for the sealing surface. Transfer your depth mark to a scrap of tube or the tube you're going to use WITHOUT the fitting installed. Plumb the throat of the extruder with that tube to confirm that you can in fact make proper contact with the sealing surface at the correct depth according to your mark.

Next, make sure the end of the tube is cut perfectly square. Capricorn makes a cutter that ensures this which they include with their kits; alternately, if you ever when you get the printer working again, there are a number of models on ThingiVerse that make a jig to ensure you are making a square cut with a razor blade. Do NOT install the tube in the pneu fitting at this time.

Next, install the pneu fitting in the extruder and tighten fully, then back it off 1 1/2-2 turns. NOW you push the Bowden tube in place, all the way down. Hold the pneu fitting and twist the tube while pressing it in place to be sure.

Finally, tighten down the pneu fitting. This will force the retainer up against the shoulder inside the fitting; jamming it up so the tube cannot back out, while at the same time pressing that square end tight against the sealing surface inside the hotend.

Next, follow the the same procedure with the pneu fitting on your CReality CNC extruder per my description here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg3032618/#msg3032618 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg3032618/#msg3032618)



Also; did you ever replace the SKR board/touchscreen, or did the vendor give you a rash of sh** over warranty?

mnem
 :-//

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 22, 2020, 12:49:43 pm
Thanks mnementh.

Today (haven't redone bowden tube yet) I tried another temp tower. Same stringy mess and juddering.

I then put the original board and screen back in, did a quick 5 point level, and it's printing perfectly.   Just finished the temp tower, zero extruder juddering.

Can also push filament through fine at 180.

So it has to be a faulty skr board (both SD card problems were with the SD port on thew touch screen).

So I'm going to return them both (bought in a package)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 22, 2020, 05:53:00 pm
Just done another print, 5 chain links and their covers (to put over cable). Again came out 100% perfect.

SKR board now on its way back to amazon
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 22, 2020, 06:03:24 pm
So the question becomes what was faulty, the SKR, the LCD, or the firmware configuration of one of the two?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 22, 2020, 07:57:16 pm
Well, as the SKR mini appears to have a EXP1 port, I imagine one COULD test it with a standard RAMPS LCD. But I don't know if the E3 LCD/Encoder pinout is the same as the standard RAMPS pinout...?

I suppose another alternative would be to try running it without the TS at all, and control via PronterFace... But I tend to agree that the first course of action should be to get all new HW on the way; let the vendor figure it out.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 22, 2020, 08:06:50 pm
[RANDOM MODE]

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1005899;image)

[/RANDOM MODE]

mnem
 >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 22, 2020, 08:52:18 pm
Well, as the SKR mini appears to have a EXP1 port, I imagine one COULD test it with a standard RAMPS LCD. But I don't know if the E3 LCD/Encoder pinout is the same as the standard RAMPS pinout...?

It's a drop-in replacement..
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 22, 2020, 09:15:41 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1005922;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1005920;image)
   
I know that the whole shebang is supposed to be a drop-in replacement; I wasn't sure if the mainboard alone is. The pics are a bit confusing what with the "Normal LCD" and "CR-10 LCD" ports on the back of the LCD.  :-//

Remember, I've never actually owned a CReality 3DP... until the CR-6 gets delivered, that is. ;) All I've ever had is the cheap knock-offs.  :-DD

IIRC, EXP1 is the LCD/Encoder and EXP2 is the SD card socket. Wasn't sure how they did all that over a single serial connection.  :o

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 22, 2020, 09:26:23 pm
I know that the whole shebang is supposed to be a drop-in replacement; I wasn't sure if the mainboard alone is. The pics are a bit confusing what with the "Normal LCD" and "CR-10 LCD" ports on the back of the LCD.  :-//

It is. The Creality pinout consolidates a few bits by using an SPI display with no SD.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 22, 2020, 10:19:44 pm
So the question becomes what was faulty, the SKR, the LCD, or the firmware configuration of one of the two?

Well I used xrunners config.h and config_adv.h for the SKR, he told me which LCD firmware he installed, I installed same one (didn’t need to compile the LCD firmware). He has same machine, same SKR, same LCD

Works totally fine for xrunner.

I also tried it with the firmware supplied with the SKR and LCD, same problems occurred.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 22, 2020, 11:08:28 pm
Now you're trying to apply LOGIC to a HOBBY... have you completely lost all reason...?  :-DD

mnem
I only print what the voices tell me to.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 23, 2020, 11:06:02 am
Dropped the faulty board off yesterday at about 3pm yesterday, refund credited to my Amazon account already.

So, do I buy another, or something else.  I see they now have a v2 board thats £12 more.  I see that has an extra z port which I doubt I'll ever need.

Or do I go for something completely different (if such a thing exists).

So far I've found a Creality silent board but haven't read good things about it (I don't think its 32 bit either) and the two SKR Mini's from Bigtree
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 23, 2020, 03:24:29 pm
Interestingly, I asked the same question in the Creality face book group.

A few of the replies

"I had 2 skr mini e3 had 1 with a faulty board when I ordered from amazon and the replacement had a faulty screen so returned them and got the ezboard from th3d"

"I had a faulty skr mini too but I was able to get a refund immediately and bought another one."

"I read so many broken skr mini reviews, I just went creality silent board and happy with my choice"

"There’s the Th3d board, but I don’t recommend th3d products."

"Go with a duet3d WiFi board 64bit processor and all wireless!"
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 23, 2020, 03:53:40 pm
Much as there will undoubtedly be some marketing BS some of you might be interested in Signing a few hours of your life away (with a spare email account  ::) ) for this Webinar on Siemens / Markforged Additive Manufacturing including continuous Carbon Fiber insertion  8)

https://emailing.traceparts.com/partners/Markforged/2020/200623/APAC/2020_Q1_2_Siemens_Innovation___100_WebinarAPAC.html worth a Read regardless.

It is on the 25th of June so check the local time. Think I will be signing up for a listen.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 23, 2020, 04:07:49 pm
Interestingly, I asked the same question in the Creality face book group.

A few of the replies

"I had 2 skr mini e3 had 1 with a faulty board when I ordered from amazon and the replacement had a faulty screen so returned them and got the ezboard from th3d"

"I had a faulty skr mini too but I was able to get a refund immediately and bought another one."

"I read so many broken skr mini reviews, I just went creality silent board and happy with my choice"

"There’s the Th3d board, but I don’t recommend th3d products."

"Go with a duet3d WiFi board 64bit processor and all wireless!"

Well, they're low cost boards, so they're probably not fully factory tested.. they work fine, though.

As for Facebook, well, Duet boards aren't 64-bit and their wifi is known to suck before it goes in a metal box, so that's how much stock I'd put in Facebook comments. Duet boards are really nice, though.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 23, 2020, 04:42:46 pm
Unfortunately, hobbyist 3DP has been all but taken over by the "China-direct" invasion, just as has the "model aviation" hobby. Part & parcel of this is that even with the name brands, one has to practice a higher-than-usual level of personal fault tolerance.  :-DD

The bottom line is that we pay for our toys in one of two ways: either with our hard-earned $$$ on boutique/turnkey solutions, or by expending our time and patience on parts which typically mostly work but whose QC roughly follows the 80:20 ratio and level of concern expressed in the Pareto Principle.  ;)

Myself, I'd probably buy the same part again. I might look for a different vendor on Amazon/Fulfilled by Amazon in hopes of finding the part from a different manufacturing lot, but I would NOT be willing to give up the convenience of Amazon's liberal return policy.

Take a look at this video showing just how much bang/buck you CAN get from these sources, if you have the experience or are willing to learn from guys like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB8yRVnDGq4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wB8yRVnDGq4)

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=1006074;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 23, 2020, 05:53:55 pm
Thanks, I seem to have the choice of getting the 1.2 from the same company or the v2 from a different one. 

Decided to go for the newer v2 as it will be here by Friday

Will get the screen at a later date, I think it's now best to only change one thing at a time.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 23, 2020, 05:59:15 pm
Bear in mind you'll need to use the bugfix-2.0.x branch of Marlin to get support for that board. You'll finally have two controlled fans, though, downside, no permanently on fan header.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 23, 2020, 06:32:28 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=984878;image)

Sure beats having to do this tho.  :-DD    And I can't blame him for being a bit gunshy about the TouchScreen; I've taken a peek inside the nuts & volts of how MINE works.  :scared:

It uses the same module discussed here: https://bleughbleugh.wordpress.com/2018/07/11/wanhao-duplicator-9-d9-technical-stuff-part-deux-the-lcd-part-number/ (https://bleughbleugh.wordpress.com/2018/07/11/wanhao-duplicator-9-d9-technical-stuff-part-deux-the-lcd-part-number/)

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 24, 2020, 03:56:24 am
Seems a very long time ago now but I downloaded this base model https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3640994/files (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3640994/files) and using Fusion 360 to converted the Mesh into a Brep (solid model) then editing it and adding a top to suit whatever I wanted on a rail.

So if it is of use to anyone feel free to play with or download the Sonoff Pow version and make your own custom DIN mounts by tweaking the model. https://a360.co/3erMNv2 (https://a360.co/3erMNv2) For those who just want to print it download the STL from here https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B3Nr8Hnn-696KgA-bjZMbi1_d8pivpve/view?usp=sharing (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1B3Nr8Hnn-696KgA-bjZMbi1_d8pivpve/view?usp=sharing) Print it on it's side! The second lower hole isn't in the case but I recommend drilling it and using two.

Past use shot below too still working great and no signs of issues.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on June 24, 2020, 12:43:16 pm
Here we go again...

Thumbnail:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=94559.0;attach=1006365;image)

When clicked:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1006364;image)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 24, 2020, 04:02:34 pm
Most Strange the only thing in common with the two posts of mine is there is spaces in the file names that broke. In the TEA thread when I reuploaded them I removed the space  :-// Something has changed I suspect.

EDIT  :-+ @GNIF - found debugged and resolved https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/website-error-reports/msg3104210/#msg3104210 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/website-error-reports/msg3104210/#msg3104210)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 25, 2020, 12:10:19 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfFYuF1IlT8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qfFYuF1IlT8)

I am SO jealous that I didn't get to be part of this egregious misuse of 3DP and drone power!!! :-DD

mnem
 >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 26, 2020, 01:07:16 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1010212;image)

Fun, frivolous AND useful print number 57: Spacers for the flight controller on my tiny FPV quadcopter.

This is getting into the realm where the minimum line width of a 0.40 nozzle actually affects how it can print; the walls of the thin part are only .4mm thick.

But... they WILL go on the 2mm studs that make the stack as long as I screw them on. Win-win, says ! >:D

mnem
(https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/coffee_L.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 26, 2020, 01:44:09 am
So the question is did you use the Revolve function or the Extrude function in Fusion?  :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 26, 2020, 04:01:18 am
I did it the lazy way. Sketched 3 concentric lines, a couple pulls, a quick chamfer. A minute or two at most, even for me.  ;)

Problems with limits of a 0.40 nozzle vs fit on tiny, densely populated PCBs now have me on redesign #3. I got the ID of the sleeve good on the 2nd try; I kept having to make the large shoulder smaller and thicker to make clearance for this or that which I couldn't see until I was actually fitting the board.  |O

Rendering STL now; then off to make another test print.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on June 26, 2020, 04:58:54 am
What I love about 3D printing is the speed and ease of those test fits.  Using conventional shop tools the prototype takes about as long, but much more effort.  Subtractive mods to the prototype are faster than printing an update, but making a second copy is just as bad as the first.  And additive mods mean starting over. Once you nail the design down almost no effort is required to get more copies off the printer.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 26, 2020, 05:57:38 am
What I love about 3D printing is the speed and ease of those test fits.  Using conventional shop tools the prototype takes about as long, but much more effort.  Subtractive mods to the prototype are faster than printing an update, but making a second copy is just as bad as the first.  And additive mods mean starting over. Once you nail the design down almost no effort is required to get more copies off the printer.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1011422;image)

LOL... yeah. :-+ In this case, 4.5 minutes a copy. Took me a minute or two each just to deburr with a X-Acto knife. :-DD

With a quad this small, you have to print a full set each iteration; a mm or two one way another makes a world of difference. :-+

Yes, that is a 20mm Cal Cube it's sitting on.  >:D

mnem
*toddles off to ded*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 26, 2020, 08:34:30 am
I did it the lazy way. Sketched 3 concentric lines, a couple pulls, a quick chamfer. A minute or two at most, even for me.  ;)

Problems with limits of a 0.40 nozzle vs fit on tiny, densely populated PCBs now have me on redesign #3. I got the ID of the sleeve good on the 2nd try; I kept having to make the large shoulder smaller and thicker to make clearance for this or that which I couldn't see until I was actually fitting the board.  |O

Rendering STL now; then off to make another test print.

mnem
 :popcorn:

Clearance on internal holes is a bit of a guess until you workout your own rules of thumb. For me 2.5 and under are +0.3mm diameter and 3-6 works well at about +0.2mm.

With a your model Profile sketch and revolve it and you are done. The first few times might do your head in a little until you figure out what to reference it to (construction line at the axis) then it actually becomes faster and less steps. Give it a bash even with your current simple job to try it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 26, 2020, 11:44:23 am
I got the ID of the sleeve good on the 2nd try; I kept having to make the large shoulder smaller and thicker to make clearance for this or that which I couldn't see until I was actually fitting the board.  |O

For me the internal diameters turn out to be always smaller, seems like if the slicer centers the spaghetti on the plane of the wall, so the radius ends up being 1/2 the spaghetti less, or IOW, the diameter a whole spaghetti width less => always add that to the holes' IDs in the design. At least that's what works for me!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 26, 2020, 12:01:12 pm
If you also think about what an STL is it is straight lines between points. Small Circles have less points so they shrink more is actual terms. Not sure if there is any numbers on it but it will also vary with the Poly Count of the model.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 26, 2020, 03:31:55 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1010696;image)

Yeah; I test-printed a couple designed at spec, then selected the inner wall and pushed .05mm a couple times till I got to 2.2/3.0mm inner/outer. At that point, I was at 0.4mm wall thickness... so really just arguing with physics, not the software.  :-DD

It was the large shoulder that wanted to mess with me. I started at 6.5mm OD as that matched the larger grommets; found as I test-fit that it would just hit here or there. I made the mistake of trying to cure with a chamfer, as that was my plan to begin with.

Should have backed out past the original chamfer in the design seen above, but thought I'd get smart and did a new sketch for a new body to pull/cut and make the OD right; that worked but it made something broken in the body and it wanted to slice weird. :-//

Once I had the dimensions "adjusted to meet reality" in my head, it took literally a minute to make a new design; it's waiting for their server to do the render that costs time.  :P Of course, I'm not daft enough to expect the same time-slice priority as the folks who actually PAY for their services. ;)

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 29, 2020, 05:00:27 am
So I had a spare minute/coffee  >:D

I offer up the Holey Intolerant Printer Test. Each step up is 0.2mm from the base number as shown so 1, 1.2, 1.4 etc. so you can have a print and check what size to model your holes/insert/rods etc are to either fit or bind.

Don't want the Vertical (I recommend you print it as printers differ) stop it or chop it in the slicer. Or if you want to crunch the model it is here to download and tweak it to Imperial or add it out to 0.1mm steps https://a360.co/3eJcjfp

For those who just want to print it the STL is in the Zip file below.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on June 29, 2020, 11:24:01 am
Anyone tried the PID Autotune?

I followed the guide from here (https://www.reddit.com/r/3Dprinting/comments/h8xqrn/pid_autotune/)

I've only tried the nozzle.

I ran it 3 times with it getting it's result from 25 passes and a further 3 times with it getting its results from 5 passes, all at 215 degrees, all with side fan on.

Results from 25 pass test

1)
PID Autotune finished! Put the last Kp, Ki and Kd constants from below into Configuration.h
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Kp 20.47
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Ki 1.63
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Kd 64.42

2)
PID Autotune finished! Put the last Kp, Ki and Kd constants from below into Configuration.h
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Kp 19.14
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Ki 1.51
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Kd 60.61

3)
PID Autotune finished! Put the last Kp, Ki and Kd constants from below into Configuration.h
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Kp 21.52
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Ki 1.75
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Kd 65.99

Results from 5 pass tests

1)
PID Autotune finished! Put the last Kp, Ki and Kd constants from below into Configuration.h
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Kp 22.52
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Ki 1.87
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Kd 67.70

2)
PID Autotune finished! Put the last Kp, Ki and Kd constants from below into Configuration.h
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Kp 25.87
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Ki 2.18
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Kd 76.73

3)
PID Autotune finished! Put the last Kp, Ki and Kd constants from below into Configuration.h
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Kp 21.59
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Ki 1.74
Recv: #define DEFAULT_Kd 67.09

So the values between the 6 tests vary from

P: 19.14 - 25.87
I:   1.51 - 2.18
D: 60.61 - 76.73

I expected a slight variation, but this seems like autotune isn't really worth it at all, or something in my machine isn't working?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on June 29, 2020, 01:10:25 pm
Autotune may not be perfect but bang bang is a disaster (tho it's ok for the bed).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: bitwelder on June 29, 2020, 01:59:18 pm
I'm doing some maintenance on my Ender 3, and as I paid more attention on the power connections, I noticed that the XT60 connectors used to join the PSU and the controller are such that the male ehm... plug is on the PSU side and the socket on the board side.
Checking through a few YT videos that show them, it seems that's the standard way Creality mounts them.

Why is that? Usually isn't so that the connector that provides power should be as protected as possible from accidental shorts, etc. and so use the socket type (as actually it seems to happen with all LiPo batteries) ?

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 29, 2020, 03:23:22 pm
I'm doing some maintenance on my Ender 3, and as I paid more attention on the power connections, I noticed that the XT60 connectors used to join the PSU and the controller are such that the male ehm... plug is on the PSU side and the socket on the board side.
Checking through a few YT videos that show them, it seems that's the standard way Creality mounts them.

Why is that? Usually isn't so that the connector that provides power should be as protected as possible from accidental shorts, etc. and so use the socket type (as actually it seems to happen with all LiPo batteries) ?

I would say that's because, as I pointed out previously (and got a lot of hate for..), Creality have a sore lack of actual engineers. Monkey see, monkey do, just slightly better quality than the other monkeys.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 29, 2020, 04:45:38 pm
No comment...  >:D

mnem
mmmmmmnlmmmmmrmmmmphlmmmmrppphhhh!!!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 30, 2020, 01:34:36 am
I'm doing some maintenance on my Ender 3, and as I paid more attention on the power connections, I noticed that the XT60 connectors used to join the PSU and the controller are such that the male ehm... plug is on the PSU side and the socket on the board side.
Checking through a few YT videos that show them, it seems that's the standard way Creality mounts them.

Why is that? Usually isn't so that the connector that provides power should be as protected as possible from accidental shorts, etc. and so use the socket type (as actually it seems to happen with all LiPo batteries) ?

I would say that's because, as I pointed out previously (and got a lot of hate for..), Creality have a sore lack of actual engineers. Monkey see, monkey do, just slightly better quality than the other monkeys.

If you think 'hate' was what you got for making GROSS SWEEPING Generalizations then as you are clearly a 16 year old and have been online for two minutes you should look at your choices.  ;)

Again you make a CLAIM of a Sore lack of Engineers. Please inform the Audience how many Engineers Creality has and then proceed to tell us how many they should have?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 30, 2020, 02:42:01 am
I'm doing some maintenance on my Ender 3, and as I paid more attention on the power connections, I noticed that the XT60 connectors used to join the PSU and the controller are such that the male ehm... plug is on the PSU side and the socket on the board side.
Checking through a few YT videos that show them, it seems that's the standard way Creality mounts them.

Why is that? Usually isn't so that the connector that provides power should be as protected as possible from accidental shorts, etc. and so use the socket type (as actually it seems to happen with all LiPo batteries) ?

I would say that's because, as I pointed out previously (and got a lot of hate for..), Creality have a sore lack of actual engineers. Monkey see, monkey do, just slightly better quality than the other monkeys.

If you think 'hate' was what you got for making GROSS SWEEPING Generalizations then as you are clearly a 16 year old and have been online for two minutes you should look at your choices.  ;)

Again you make a CLAIM of a Sore lack of Engineers. Please inform the Audience how many Engineers Creality has and then proceed to tell us how many they should have?

Oh here we go..

Look, I've used several, own one, and seen many Creality printers, and I take issue with the lack of engineering. The XT60 being the wrong way around shows nobody thought about it. The long-inherited AVR latchup on their controllers being 'fixed' by swapping the linear regulator for a switcher shows nobody investigated it. The cheap XT60s burning up showed nobody verified the parts were up to task.

I've yet to see any actual electronic development, just rehashed open source designs and straight up copies.

Either they have no EEs or the ones they've got aren't much good. That's my claim. Don't like it? Show me where they've done something original or just done something well, instead of just better than the average clone, rather than attacking me for being unimpressed.

I still think they're far, far from the worst buy. I just don't think they're at all special and I'm not quiet or apologetic about that.

Now, please inform us how many engineers you can see evidence of them having, and how many you think they should have..
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 02, 2020, 05:42:07 pm
CReality does have a proven track record of poor engineering; just like pretty much every 3DP vendor has had at least a few instances, even *gasp* PRUSA. OTOH, they sell more units than probably the next 10 smaller vendors combined; IMO, that along with the fact of being a recognized brand probably accounts more for this impression of poor design than any single failure in design.

For the most part, CReality is better-than-average at best; yes there certainly are brands with a higher general quality level, even in the hobbyist 3DP market, but nothing that even comes close to their price bracket. Bang/buck they sure are hard to beat; I see them as purveyors of the best-polished turds in a sea of shite.  :-DD

This fact is why I consider them the obvious choice for a FIRST 3DP; the fact you can buy a machine from them knowing that it will (almost every time) work correctly the first time for under $300 (INCLUDING a good assortment of consumable supplies), get your feet wet in 3DP with the support of a huge & knowledgeable user base, and find out whether 3DP is FOR YOU so cheaply is a combination that nobody else can offer.  :-+

The CR6-SE is the first product I've seen from them that I could consider a reasonably original design; that and the fact that CReality actually DOES HAVE a minimum level of quality (something the vast majority in this market do not have) was mainly why I bought it instead of waiting for the inevitable cheap clone.

mnem
*puttin' on muh flame-proof jammies*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: ANTALIFE on July 06, 2020, 01:16:31 am
Time for me to toot my horn, I finally managed to get our Prusa i3 MK3S + MMU2S to give reliable prints!

If another else has an MMU2S that just won't play nice, here is what I had to do:
https://www.antalife.com/2020/07/project-prusa-i3-mk3s-mmu2s.html (https://www.antalife.com/2020/07/project-prusa-i3-mk3s-mmu2s.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on July 06, 2020, 02:59:29 am
I have recently proved that I, like many posting here, am finding 3D printing as much a hobby as a tool.  After most of a year just designing, slicing, printing and using I suddenly couldn't get anything to print.  Poor bed adhesion, prints that did the first several mm perfectly and then began generating air spaghetti and several other maladies.  This was occurring on a design that I print regularly generating a few dozen copies.   A variety of minor problems caused this, all sorted now, but it demonstrated that at least at the Creality Ender 3 end of the scale it isn't a tool you just use.  Frequent and sometimes continuous fettling is required.  Reports from colleagues using these printer in professional settings indicate that the problem is not limited to the low end of the price scale.

I still love it.  Still find it addictive, but newbies be warned.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 06, 2020, 05:57:15 pm
LOL... well, yes; it IS called "Hobbyist 3DP" for a reason.  :-DD

If you want to escape the "hobbyist" aspect, you need to get into "Additive Process Manufacturing". Be prepared to bring a fat checkbook or mortgage the kids; those turnkey solutions have corporations, CEOs and their families to support. ;)

mnem
 :popcorn:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on July 06, 2020, 06:05:58 pm
My colleagues are reporting on results from machines that are paying for mortgages, yachts and Carribean vacations.  More stable? Yes.  Easier to use?  Maybe.  Things like cartridge loading and multiple print heads.  But they still find that it isn't like printing ten more copies of the quarterly report.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on July 06, 2020, 06:53:06 pm
LOL... well, yes; it IS called "Hobbyist 3DP" for a reason.  :-DD

If you want to escape the "hobbyist" aspect, you need to get into "Additive Process Manufacturing". Be prepared to bring a fat checkbook or mortgage the kids; those turnkey solutions have corporations, CEOs and their families to support. ;)

mnem
 :popcorn:
I don't think any real turnkey solutions exist, other than paying someone else to go through the motions.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 07, 2020, 03:17:09 am
My colleagues are reporting on results from machines that are paying for mortgages, yachts and Carribean vacations.  More stable? Yes.  Easier to use?  Maybe.  Things like cartridge loading and multiple print heads.  But they still find that it isn't like printing ten more copies of the quarterly report.

Well no... I'm not talking about printer farms and serving orders from ThingiVerse; I'm talking about Additive Manufacturing that is being used in industry in place of conventional molded parts, like automobile manufacture. The term "turnkey" there is a service includes a small army of people whose job it is to set up, maintain and manage the hardware, as well as to turn somebody's 3D modeling into a part that can be produced economically via Additive Manufacturing.

Yes, it is already happening.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on July 07, 2020, 05:21:06 am
My colleagues are reporting on results from machines that are paying for mortgages, yachts and Carribean vacations.  More stable? Yes.  Easier to use?  Maybe.  Things like cartridge loading and multiple print heads.  But they still find that it isn't like printing ten more copies of the quarterly report.

Well no... I'm not talking about printer farms and serving orders from ThingiVerse; I'm talking about Additive Manufacturing that is being used in industry in place of conventional molded parts, like automobile manufacture. The term "turnkey" there is a service includes a small army of people whose job it is to set up, maintain and manage the hardware, as well as to turn somebody's 3D modeling into a part that can be produced economically via Additive Manufacturing.

Yes, it is already happening.

mnem
 :popcorn:

I think we agree on what is happening.  Only disagree on the description.  Hydroelectric dams are a long standing and proven technology.  There is a well developed industry with armies of people ready to implement your dam.  But you can't buy one off the shelf.  Each one is a custom design with variables ranging from available water to available topography and the underlying soil types and strengths.

Same thing with office buildings.  Mature and widely established technology.  But with few exceptions each one is a custom design. 

PWBs fifty years ago were a widely used and large scale industry.  But design rule checkers, standardized processes and the like were manual, spotty and or non-existent.  Multi-layer processes were in their infancy. Designs which required multi-layers were usually iterative and painful.  You negotiated with board fabs (either in house or contract places) over what they could do, and then tested to find out if they were stretching their claims (or had lost the bubble).  It was as much art as science.  But widely used. I think that is not a terrible analogy for 3D printing today.

Perhaps the word printing is the problem.  In todays world it conjures up a trivial task that anybody can do.  Basically compose your document and hit the print buttom.  What comes out will be exactly (with possible minor color precision problems) what you aimed for.  While 3D printing is more like ceramic pottery or finish carpentry.  There are tools which can be used to generate the product, but much knowledge and attention is required.

As a closing thought, another analogy is farming.  The tools are all there, used on an industrial scale.  At the industrial level results are more consistent, but still require constant adjustment to local conditions and requirements and frequent emergency responses due to insects, plant disease, weather, machinery failure and other issues.  At the hobby scale almost all of the tools available to the industrial farmer are available in some watered down form.  And all of the same problems occur with less visibility and less effective responses because of the lower quality of the tools. 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on July 07, 2020, 05:43:24 am
My colleagues are reporting on results from machines that are paying for mortgages, yachts and Carribean vacations.  More stable? Yes.  Easier to use?  Maybe.  Things like cartridge loading and multiple print heads.  But they still find that it isn't like printing ten more copies of the quarterly report.

Well no... I'm not talking about printer farms and serving orders from ThingiVerse; I'm talking about Additive Manufacturing that is being used in industry in place of conventional molded parts, like automobile manufacture. The term "turnkey" there is a service includes a small army of people whose job it is to set up, maintain and manage the hardware, as well as to turn somebody's 3D modeling into a part that can be produced economically via Additive Manufacturing.

Yes, it is already happening.

mnem
 :popcorn:
That's not really the common definition of turnkey. It would mean buying an Ariane 5 rocket is also turnkey.  ;D

"A turnkey, a turnkey project, or a turnkey operation (also spelled turn-key) is a type of project that is constructed so that it can be sold to any buyer as a completed product. This is contrasted with build to order, where the constructor builds an item to the buyer's exact specifications, or when an incomplete product is sold with the assumption that the buyer would complete it."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 07, 2020, 05:46:27 pm
I've had  a week off due to other things.

I've put the SKR V2 board in and it's working fine (the board that is)

I've managed to ding the center of my magnetic bed so have the Creality glass one in a box next to me.

I've bought another TFT screen same one as before {originally bought in package with SKR 1.2 which I returned due to fault).

I've put a dual extruder on and followed a guide by Luke Hatfield on fixing the hot end clogging.

I now have zero extrusion problems and have calibrated my esteps, went from 93 to 143.5.  If I put a black line on filament 100mm behind extruder and feed 100mm through hot end, black line lines up with extruder perfectly.

I also calibrated my x axis according to a guide, where both sides measure exactly the same from the top (mind you I would have thought it's more important to line up with the bottom)

I had the x belt  and the screw thread removed, all sides now moving up and down (and left and right) perfectly, not too loose, not too tight.  When I remnoved the x belt,  moving it left to right I noticed the head stopping every full rotation of the wheels as though one had a nick in. I swapped them around and it's gone away (will order some spares).

And I put it together, did a test print and it's perfect.

Then I did another and it wouldn't stick

I'm having levelling problems again. I can do 4 corner levelling 5 times in a row, 4 times it will be perfect, one time it will be to high.

I've noticed that the right hand side x axis bracket, when it homes, it moves slightly and the bottom wheel is not touching (all hex nuts tight), this is after I've already gone through adjusting this when I did the x axis calibration.

I also notice that if I push the right hand up with a tiny amount of pressure with one finger, it rises by a couple of mm, I presume something isn't right.

Tomorrow I'm taking the entire thing to pieces, reassembling and making sure every bit is square.  I have also bought a BLtouch and will fit at the same time.

As a last resort I could fit a 2nd z axis but will see how I go.

Will let you know :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on July 07, 2020, 06:24:46 pm
I've had  a week off due to other things.

I've put the SKR V2 board in and it's working fine (the board that is)

I've managed to ding the center of my magnetic bed so have the Creality glass one in a box next to me.

I've bought another TFT screen same one as before {originally bought in package with SKR 1.2 which I returned due to fault).

I've put a dual extruder on and followed a guide by Luke Hatfield on fixing the hot end clogging.

I now have zero extrusion problems and have calibrated my esteps, went from 93 to 143.5.  If I put a black line on filament 100mm behind extruder and fees 100mm through hot end, black line lines up with extruder perfectly.

I also calibrated my x axis according to a guide, where both sides measure exactly the same from the top (mind you I would have thought it's more important to line up with the bottom)

I had the x belt  and the screw thread removed, all sides now moving up and down (and left and right) perfectly, not too loose, not too tight.  When I remnoved the x belt,  moving it left to right I noticed the head stopping every full rotation of the wheels as though one had a nick in. I swapped them around and it's gone away (will order some spares).

And I put it together, did a test print and it's perfect.

Then I did another and it wouldn't stick

I'm having levelling problems again. I can do 4 corner levelling 5 times in a row, 4 times it will be perfect, one time it will be to high.

I've noticed that the right hand side x axis bracket, when it homes, it moves slightly and the bottom wheel is not touching (all hex nuts tight), this is after I've already gone through adjusting this when I did the x axis calibration.

I also notice that if I push the right hand up with a tiny amount of pressure with one finger, it rises by a couple of mm, I presume something isn't right.

Tomorrow I'm taking the entire thing to pieces, reassembling and making sure every bit is square.  I have also bought a BLtouch and will fit at the same time.

As a last resort I could fit a 2nd z axis but will see how I go.

Will let you know :)

One issue I had with non-repeatable leveling was cable routing.  If not carefully arranged they can contact the leveling wheels as the bed is moved about.  They take almost no torque to turn so a little rub can result in an uncommanded automatic level change.  A little thought and a few zip ties permanently eliminated the problem.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 08, 2020, 06:46:58 pm
@CatalinaWOW: Exactly where I was going. Things have evolved; the March of Progress etc.  :-//   In today's corporate world, "Turnkey" often includes a service contract.  :-DD

Here's some actual "hobbyist-grade" 3DP being sold in production quantities as part of a hobbyist kit:


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1019414;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1019380;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1019376;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1019396;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1019392;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1019404;image)   

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3126386/#msg3126386

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 09, 2020, 01:18:10 pm
6 hours later and the frame is square.

After this experience, I wonder about a lot of the info out there on the web, of course there's always the possibility I squared it the hard way.

Loosen the 4 bolts either side to get your printer feet level, but 1/4 of an extra turn on one bolt when tightening them,  can throw the Y axis out, tighten the top two a bit more and it can throw the vertical bar out by about 3mm from top to bottom.

If I loosen the two bolts (that hold the vertical in place) on just one side, depending on how I tighten them, measuring between the two verticals can be as much as 1/4" difference from top to bottom.  I presume if I did this both sides, it could be even more out.

I've used Aluminium foil as shims to get everything exactly square   (and clamped top bracket against both verticals to maker sure they were properly aligned with each other) , but even then depending on how much I tighten a particular bolt, it can throw things off by a couple of mm.

I finally got the verticals square and realised I'd done it the wrong way around (cut out for cable on wrong side) so undid the cross beam and turned it around :)  still took me ages to get it back all square though.

[attachimg=1]

My point is that so many peoples advice involve loosening bolts here and there to adjust whatever, but I suspect by doing so, most people will end up with a less square printer than they started with.

 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 09, 2020, 03:39:27 pm
The entire point of this build material is that when you tighten it all down it self-squares at those end joints. A mm or so runout is a LOT with this stuff; you must have a damaged section of extrusion or a machined end with the burrs folded over itself.  :scared: Inspect them carefully.

It IS possible you have some pieces where the machining is faulty; this is not common now, but it was a common complaint with E3s and CR10s made by "licensee" distributors a year or two ago.  :-// That is part of why CReality ended the "licensee/franchisee" program.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 09, 2020, 03:50:55 pm
The entire point of this build material is that when you tighten it all down it self-squares at those end joints.

This only holds if the extrusions are adequately square, all cut faces are actually square, and all threads are tapped straight.. all of which is fairly incompatible with the price point. Close, yes, actually square, not so easy.

It's actually easier to get square assemblies when you only joint on the extruded faces, with extruded and preferably machined brackets.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 09, 2020, 04:50:22 pm
Patently untrue. The best way to get a true and square frame is with end-joints like most modern extrusion-frame 3DPs use. Angle brackets are a waste of time; whether plates or machined the simply have no rigidity compared to a properly machined end-joint. They can be helpful in conjunction with; but they are no replacement for a properly made end-joint.

Yes, the extrusion has to be machined precisely. It is not hard, there’s a whole constellation of machine tools expressly made for doing that precise machining quickly and cost-effectively on this stuff; I used to use it every day. That is the problem with the “licensee” product; they tried to cut corners by not getting the correct tools to precisely cut those corners... and ends... and gullets.

mnem
  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 09, 2020, 06:14:49 pm
The best way to get a true and square frame is with end-joints like most modern extrusion-frame 3DPs use. Angle bracket are a waste of time; whether plates or machined the simply have no rigidity compared to a properly machined end-joint. They can be helpful in conjunction with; but they are no replacement for a properly made end-joint.

They are not a waste of time if you're not relying on them for rigidity. I never said they were the better solution for a floppy open-frame.

I will of course bow to your deep experience and direct knowledge of the Creality factory and practices.. and still maintain that at this price point expecting a properly square frame every time is optimistic at best.

That said, it's also best not to rely on cheap tools to square a frame. A lot of typical squares in DIY shops are anything but, tapes are easily fooled, and even a rule can rapidly mislead you.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 09, 2020, 10:24:44 pm
My (adult) kids are here until Sunday, not seen them since Christmas due to lockdown, so I doubt I’ll touch it until then.

The problem is, if I put a flat edge over the top of the pieces that the vertical bits screw down on, the middle is higher than the outsides. Hard to explain, will record a short vid and show you. This is why tightening the screws pull it so far out of true, both screws are either side of the middle and it’s effectively pivoting On the middle depending on which screw is tightened more.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 09, 2020, 10:32:57 pm
It's warped coming out of the die. That's not exactly uncommon for 2040 extrusion. To Creality's credit, they machined the mating surfaces on the CR-6 to fix that.

A little cautious work with a file could achieve the same result for you, it probably won't look pretty.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on July 09, 2020, 11:03:21 pm
The problem is, if I put a flat edge over the top of the pieces that the vertical bits screw down on, the middle is higher than the outsides. Hard to explain, will record a short vid and show you. This is why tightening the screws pull it so far out of true, both screws are either side of the middle and it’s effectively pivoting On the middle depending on which screw is tightened more.

I've got to give you a lot of credit for your persistence. You're really beating it into submission.  :-+

As far as any more physical mods to mine - I've got linear rails, the SKR board, the touch screen, Pi running Octoprint and camera, modded fan shrouds, a good glass bed. I've beat it into submission several times now. It's operating really well and I'm inclined to not fuck around with any more physical mods unless it's something really revolutionary.  :-DD

But, I will keep the Marlin version updated (not that doing that might also fuck it up  :P )
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 10, 2020, 12:46:18 am
The best way to get a true and square frame is with end-joints like most modern extrusion-frame 3DPs use. Angle bracket are a waste of time; whether plates or machined the simply have no rigidity compared to a properly machined end-joint. They can be helpful in conjunction with; but they are no replacement for a properly made end-joint.

They are not a waste of time if you're not relying on them for rigidity. I never said they were the better solution for a floppy open-frame.

I will of course bow to your deep experience and direct knowledge of the Creality factory and practices.. and still maintain that at this price point expecting a properly square frame every time is optimistic at best.

That said, it's also best not to rely on cheap tools to square a frame. A lot of typical squares in DIY shops are anything but, tapes are easily fooled, and even a rule can rapidly mislead you.

Every time, no. MOST of the time, from CReality themselves, I'll say yes. That is the "minimum standard of quality" I was talking about. I don't think that CReality is GREAT quality; but what I've seen indicates they are better overall than your generally dismissive tone would suggest.  :-//

I don't have superior knowledge of their practices; only a lot of digging through numerous usergroups describing the problems CReality had with licensee vendors not maintaining QC and then pulling the plug altogether.

I DO have superior knowledge (compared to most) of the materials used; I know how they're supposed to be cut & assembled, and I know how easy it is for people who don't know/don't care to make a complete dog's breakfast of even a basic aluminum extrusion fab. I also know how easy it can be to do the job right if you spend the money on the right tools and a little time learning how to use them. There's a reason they call it a Build SYSTEM, after all. ;)

That knowledge tells me that the first likeliest cause is as I suggested: either a damaged part, or one with burrs from the machining processes interfering with the proper fitment of the joints. Alternately, if a fabber is careless, they CAN bend the crap out of the extrusion as part of the machining process if they don't take the time to do prep correctly; this doesn't happen often if the correct tools and technique are used.

You're right, I don't know for a fact that not using the right tools is the cause here; but I'm confident enough in my surmise to proffer it as VERY probable fact. Hoofbeats, think horses not zebras, etc. That is my PROFESSIONAL opinion, as someone who has done 8020 for a living, and done it well, and had to clean up other people's 8020 build messes more times than I care to count.  :palm:

Agreed, a cheap carpenter's square is not going to cut the mustard here. Well, it COULD, but you'd have to validate it against a known GOOD quality square, preferably of the machinist variety. :P

The plastic rollers these printers use are very forgiving; they can eat more than a mm of runout over the lengths we're dealing with here. That does, however, mean that the finished moving assembly is NOT going to be as precise as a machine that uses the extrusion as a frame for precision movement hardware.

xrunner has the correct attitude; start with the decent foundation the E3 gives you, learn on it, then when you know enough about what you're doing, upgrade to precision linear slides/rods & bearings.

It's too bad so much time has passed; I'm pretty sure that if HobGoblyn had detected the warped parts he's talking about during the original build, the vendor would have made it right. I know CReality would have. :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 10, 2020, 01:03:47 am
It's warped coming out of the die. That's not exactly uncommon for 2040 extrusion. To Creality's credit, they machined the mating surfaces on the CR-6 to fix that.

A little cautious work with a file could achieve the same result for you, it probably won't look pretty.

What you're describing would be either process control issues with the extrusion or more likely, a worn-out die being used far beyond its intended life cycle. The dies tend to wear from the central core outwards, and that wear can be nonlinear. This would make the center rib(s) larger than they should be.

I would agree it is probable even CReality got a bad batch of extrusion from a supplier; likely more than once. There's so much of it coming from every corner of China and so much demand; with turnover like that I'm sure it's hard to make sure every single length of extrusion is good.  :palm:

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 10, 2020, 02:09:27 am
It's warped coming out of the die. That's not exactly uncommon for 2040 extrusion. To Creality's credit, they machined the mating surfaces on the CR-6 to fix that.

A little cautious work with a file could achieve the same result for you, it probably won't look pretty.

What you're describing would be either process control issues with the extrusion or more likely, a worn-out die being used far beyond its intended life cycle. The dies tend to wear from the central core outwards, and that wear can be nonlinear. This would make the center rib(s) larger than they should be.

I have here an offcut of 2040 V-Slot from a reputable supplier. The centre core measures 19.95mm, the total width is 39.90mm, the 'wings' 19.76mm aross their full width and 19.6mm for the last mm or so. The widest inside dimension of the slots is specced out at 11mm - on the 40mm face, this measures exactly 11.00mm on my samples. On the 20mm face, it measures 10.89mm. The main opening is specified at 6.25mm, on the 40mm face it's 6.4mm, on the 20mm, 6.27mm.

Make of those what you will. I think it looks like uneven cooling.

Quote
I would agree it is probable even CReality got a bad batch of extrusion from a supplier; likely more than once. There's so much of it coming from every corner of China and so much demand; with turnover like that I'm sure it's hard to make sure every single length of extrusion is good.

Hence my point that 'even CReality' will be affected by the price point they're setting. Again I commend them on machining the critical surface on the CR-6. Couple that with <0.1mm length error, square cuts, and straight taps, and that thing could be the squarest machine they've ever produced.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 10, 2020, 03:48:52 am
I stand behind my characterization of them as “the best-polished turd in a sea of shite”... I think they’re aiming for a different yardstick; quick, easy, reliable-ish & cheap for beginners and folks not needing engineering-quality prints. For their application, “crude but effective” is a feature, not a fault.

Those measurements are exponentially worse than anything I ever worked with from industrial 8020 build materials; their tolerances were close enough you could use their extrusion for deck spacers on a mill. Not precision standard tolerances, but within a few thou ferr sherr. Makes me think about doing some similar investigation of the extrusion on my cheap knockoff... I’d probably regret it tho.

It just seems your opinion of CReality is that they’re generally barely better than pond scum. I prefer to like them for what they are, warts and all, rather than dislike them for not being something they’re not trying to be.  :-//

Sure I’d love to see them offer a quality linear & dual-z upgrade kit for their most popular models... but then they’d have to add a proper Volcano-type hotend and a dual-drive extruder and a direct-drive extruder version as well, and better bed heater and... the list goes on & on...

Who knows; maybe they’ll get the engineers that made the CR6 to start doing some upgrades as well. It’s those nickel/dime bling parts where the real profit is anyways...

mnem
(https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/drinks.gif)
 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on July 10, 2020, 04:25:21 am
I see an asymptotic progression from you two... heading towards a similar point from opposite sides.  You're never going to meet until we get down to quantum dimensions - and even then there will be uncertainty.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 10, 2020, 11:22:18 am
Here's a 6 sec vid showing what I mean

https://youtu.be/gw-_-Uw1wxM (https://youtu.be/gw-_-Uw1wxM)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on July 10, 2020, 11:34:15 am
Here'sá 6 sec vid showing what I mean

Never noticed that here but I did check all those types of rails just now - all OK. Yea that might cause a problem ...  :--
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 10, 2020, 12:38:04 pm
Yeah, that's just like the 2040 I have here, definitely cause trouble.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on July 10, 2020, 01:41:07 pm
I see an asymptotic progression from you two... heading towards a similar point from opposite sides.  You're never going to meet until we get down to quantum dimensions - and even the there will be uncertainty.
I doubt you'll ever meet when arguing with mnem, unless you just agree.  ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 10, 2020, 04:31:34 pm
I see an asymptotic progression from you two... heading towards a similar point from opposite sides.  You're never going to meet until we get down to quantum dimensions - and even the there will be uncertainty.

Yeah, I sortof saw that too... hence the more moderate content of my last post and ending it with (https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/drinks.gif).

TL/DR: I think he's too hard on CReality; I suspect he thinks my standards are too low and that causes me to recommend inferior product.  ;)

mnem
"You don't always get what you pay for; but you should expect to pay for what you want." ~me
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 10, 2020, 04:42:18 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw-_-Uw1wxM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gw-_-Uw1wxM) 

Here's á 6 sec vid showing what I mean

Never noticed that here but I did check all those types of rails just now - all OK. Yea that might cause a problem ...  :--

Yeah, that extrusion just plain blows goats. Literally not fit for purpose, as it's supposed to be V-Groove OpenBuilds type extrusion.  :palm: 

Looking at the profile, how thin the walls are, and the fact there is no actual core region to the extrusion... no way in hell that profile is gonna be stable in production.  Honestly, the manufacturer should be shunned like the plague they are. Shame on CReality (or whomever your vendor contracted from if a licensee).  |O

mnem
The bar can ALWAYS go lower. ::)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 10, 2020, 05:00:22 pm
Yeah, that extrusion just plain blows goats. Literally not fit for purpose, as it's supposed to be V-Groove OpenBuilds type extrusion.  :palm:

That is the same profile as Openbuilds 4040. Excepting the V-slot, it's also basically the same profile as 4040 from 8020 (could their name be any more annoying?).
(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-itwgldve/images/stencil/608x608/products/229/4654/v-slot_40x40_blakc__47081.1556021291.png?c=2)(https://8020.net/media/catalog/product/cache/image/700x560/e9c3970ab036de70892d86c6d221abfe/2/0/20-4040-black-fb_photo.png)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 10, 2020, 06:23:58 pm
Didn't usedta be.  :-// 8020 was always Xed-out to the center; some series had a 5th screw hole. I remember the walls being thicker too...? I guess, like everything else; a victim of the race to the bottom...  ::)

Still no excuse for that V-Groove being made that way; whether poor QC or just plain poor design it simply isn't fit for purpose.  :-//  I suppose post-extrusion processing could restore the correct geometry to that profile, but I wouldn't want to have to be the guy who manages that QC process; it would be an exercise in misery.  |O

mnem
Like beating your knee with a monkey wrench cuz it feels so good when you stop... :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on July 10, 2020, 07:31:55 pm
Didn't usedta be.  :-// 8020 was always Xed-out to the center; some series had a 5th screw hole. I remember the walls being thicker too...? I guess, like everything else; a victim of the race to the bottom...  ::)

Still no excuse for that V-Groove being made that way; whether poor QC or just plain poor design it simply isn't fit for purpose.  :-//  I suppose post-extrusion processing could restore the correct geometry to that profile, but I wouldn't want to have to be the guy who manages that QC process; it would be an exercise in misery.  |O

mnem
Like beating your knee with a monkey wrench cuz it feels so good when you stop... :o
I trawled through a pile of images of 8020 and I couldn't find a single example of a dual V-slot stock with a core. The quality of the 8020 doesn't seem to be the issue here. :P
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 11, 2020, 01:44:10 pm
Yeah, that extrusion just plain blows goats. Literally not fit for purpose, as it's supposed to be V-Groove OpenBuilds type extrusion.  :palm:

That is the same profile as Openbuilds 4040. Excepting the V-slot, it's also basically the same profile as 4040 from 8020 (could their name be any more annoying?).   (https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-itwgldve/images/stencil/608x608/products/229/4654/v-slot_40x40_blakc__47081.1556021291.png?c=2)   (https://8020.net/media/catalog/product/cache/image/700x560/e9c3970ab036de70892d86c6d221abfe/2/0/20-4040-black-fb_photo.png)

Hmmm... looking closer over my morning cuppa... I wonder if the sharper corners and that groove down the spine of the OpenBuilds 40x40edited is more than just rendering turd-polish. Have you actually seen any genuine OpenBuilds 40x40edited extrusion firsthand? Does it have that groove? Might be evidence of more sophisticated extrusion process or possibly post-processing to prevent this phenomenon.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1021254;image)   Looking at this pic of their 80x20, I don't see those grooves; I suspect that profile isn't as susceptible to this issue.  I know genuine 8020 does not do that for sure; at least none of the stuff I ever worked with. It was designed to be assembled with end-joints.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=953118;image)   Hey... dooya think maybe that was the real reason for this recent innovation in the extrusion being used on the cheapies like mine, that has one side flat? Maybe that was their answer to having one side properly flat for assembly, rather than for appearance as it was marketed on mine.  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=938592;image)

As for the name... 8020 did kindof invent the market... it's not their fault the copycats were lazy in their naming conventions.  :-//

mnem
(https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/coffee_L.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 11, 2020, 04:25:08 pm
Hmmm... looking closer over my morning cuppa... I wonder if the sharper corners and that groove down the spine of the OpenBuilds is more than just rendering turd-polish. Have you actually seen any genuine OpenBuilds extrusion firsthand? Does it have that groove? Might be evidence of more sophisticated extrusion process or possibly post-processing to prevent this phenomenon.

The stuff I measured is Openbuilds. No, it doesn't have a groove on the wide face, only inside the slots.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 11, 2020, 05:18:34 pm
Well, you said from a reputable supplier; I didn't know if that meant it was sourced from OpenBuilds.  :-// Oh wait, I see; you said 4020, which again, doesn't have that huge empty void in the core region like the 40x40.  I should have been more specific about the 40x40 size, which does appear to be problematic here. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=938592;image)   I'm guessing what you have looks similar in profile to the 80x20 I show above?

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 11, 2020, 08:08:27 pm
What I have is 2040, and shows exactly the same issues.

(https://cdn11.bigcommerce.com/s-itwgldve/images/stencil/608x608/products/312/4055/All_V-Slot_for_Render_20x40_Black__09172.1553895320.png?c=2)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: olkipukki on July 11, 2020, 09:10:27 pm


I have here an offcut of 2040 V-Slot from a reputable supplier. The centre core measures 19.95mm, the total width is 39.90mm, the 'wings' 19.76mm aross their full width and 19.6mm for the last mm or so. The widest inside dimension of the slots is specced out at 11mm - on the 40mm face, this measures exactly 11.00mm on my samples. On the 20mm face, it measures 10.89mm. The main opening is specified at 6.25mm, on the 40mm face it's 6.4mm, on the 20mm, 6.27mm.


Wondering how much did you pay for this to a reputable supplier?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 11, 2020, 09:11:54 pm


I have here an offcut of 2040 V-Slot from a reputable supplier. The centre core measures 19.95mm, the total width is 39.90mm, the 'wings' 19.76mm aross their full width and 19.6mm for the last mm or so. The widest inside dimension of the slots is specced out at 11mm - on the 40mm face, this measures exactly 11.00mm on my samples. On the 20mm face, it measures 10.89mm. The main opening is specified at 6.25mm, on the 40mm face it's 6.4mm, on the 20mm, 6.27mm.


Wondering how much did you pay for this to a reputable supplier?

Look up the price of Openbuilds extrusions..
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 12, 2020, 04:40:09 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1021946;image)

So you're saying it has similarly proud center rail to the 40x40 we were talking about? Yeah; still not fit for purpose. I mean yeah, 7 thou is nowhere near as bad as what HobGoblyn showed us, but still... if I'd bought any quantity of that, and had the kind of problems as he's having getting things square, I'd probably raise holy hell with the supplier. If it was OpenBuilds, I'd expect a resolution... other sources; probably not, and have to open a ticket with PayPal.  :-//

[EDIT] Mhmmm... doing the math, it looks like that should produce at worst ~1-2mm runout across 400mm length of the opposing part, provided the facing end of the opposing part was cut true. I probably would just ignore that and tweak it during assembly. :-//

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1021934;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: KaneTW on July 12, 2020, 06:31:08 pm
What 3D printer do people recommend in the <4k range? I was considering a Formlabs Form 3, but the build size is a bit small for a general purpose printer and it's limited to resin.

No strong requirements, but I would like something where I don't have to spend a lot of fiddling getting it to print with reasonable repeatability. I would also like to print PVDF for parts that require PVDF's chemical resistance.

Not sure what the state on 3D printing threads nowadays is, but not having to tap the finished part or use inserts would be nice.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: olkipukki on July 12, 2020, 07:32:51 pm


I have here an offcut of 2040 V-Slot from a reputable supplier. The centre core measures 19.95mm, the total width is 39.90mm, the 'wings' 19.76mm aross their full width and 19.6mm for the last mm or so. The widest inside dimension of the slots is specced out at 11mm - on the 40mm face, this measures exactly 11.00mm on my samples. On the 20mm face, it measures 10.89mm. The main opening is specified at 6.25mm, on the 40mm face it's 6.4mm, on the 20mm, 6.27mm.


Wondering how much did you pay for this to a reputable supplier?

Look up the price of Openbuilds extrusions..

Do you mean like this https://ooznest.co.uk/product/v-slot-linear-rail-20x20mm-cut-to-size/ ?

There are quite bold statements, understandable who a target audience, but still...
They mentioned their extrusion done from 6063 T-5, in my understanding is an economy alloy and cheap, what you would expect then, especially "These extrusions are manufactured in the UK."  :o?!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 12, 2020, 07:35:47 pm
What 3D printer do people recommend in the <4k range? I was considering a Formlabs Form 3, but the build size is a bit small for a general purpose printer and it's limited to resin.

No strong requirements, but I would like something where I don't have to spend a lot of fiddling getting it to print with reasonable repeatability. I would also like to print PVDF for parts that require PVDF's chemical resistance.

Not sure what the state on 3D printing threads nowadays is, but not having to tap the finished part or use inserts would be nice.

That's like asking "What motor vehicle under 4K is best for me?"

Kindof need more info on what you actually plan to do with it before we can even hazard a guess. :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 12, 2020, 07:39:47 pm
Do you mean like this https://ooznest.co.uk/product/v-slot-linear-rail-20x20mm-cut-to-size/ ?

There are quite bold statements, understandable who a target audience, but still...
They mentioned their extrusion done from 6063 T-5, in my understanding is an economy alloy and cheap, what you would expect then, especially "These extrusions are manufactured in the UK."  :o?!

No, I mean Openbuilds (https://openbuildspartstore.com/v-slot-20x40-linear-rail/), which is why I have stated several times what it is. The profile from Ooznest is equivalent, and I do, in fact, have some, but that is not what I measured, because that's not a short offcut on my desk at this time..
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 12, 2020, 07:42:07 pm
So you're saying it has similarly proud center rail to the 40x40 we were talking about? Yeah; still not fit for purpose. I mean yeah, 7 thou is nowhere near as bad as what HobGoblyn showed us, but still... if I'd bought any quantity of that, and had the kind of problems as he's having getting things square, I'd probably raise holy hell with the supplier. If it was OpenBuilds, I'd expect a resolution... other sources; probably not, and have to open a ticket with PayPal.  :-//

I stated my measurements - which are in line with what HobGoblyn demonstrated. I've no need for a resolution as no part of my present usage of it depends on that face.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: KaneTW on July 12, 2020, 08:16:22 pm

That's like asking "What motor vehicle under 4K is best for me?"

Kindof need more info on what you actually plan to do with it before we can even hazard a guess. :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:

Yehhh, it's a complicated topic. In general, printing various functional parts either as a replacement for existing plastic parts or for some new design.
Possibly masters for casting silicone for e.g. coarser microfluidics devices. That's probably a better fit for SLA though, I think FDM will have trouble with the feature sizes required.

Material-wise for FDM, the more options the better. I don't think I'll need super high temperature materials like PEEK or PEI, but apart from the standard polymers definitely PVDF and possibly FPE.

Build size... depends on the tradeoff between accuracy/precision and costs.


I'm mostly looking for a rough overview of the market really. Too many manufacturers and some have wildly varying prices for the same on-paper features.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 12, 2020, 11:19:23 pm
So you're saying it has similarly proud center rail to the 40x40 we were talking about? Yeah; still not fit for purpose. I mean yeah, 7 thou is nowhere near as bad as what HobGoblyn showed us, but still... if I'd bought any quantity of that, and had the kind of problems as he's having getting things square, I'd probably raise holy hell with the supplier. If it was OpenBuilds, I'd expect a resolution... other sources; probably not, and have to open a ticket with PayPal.  :-//

I stated my measurements - which are in line with what HobGoblyn demonstrated. I've no need for a resolution as no part of my present usage of it depends on that face.

I'm going to pick one little nit here... what you measured is roughly .007 inch proud; less than the thickness of 2 sheets of the really cheap, thin copier paper. That would not even be visible in HobGoblyn's demonstration. What he shows is more like 20-30 thou, maybe more.

As I stated above; after looking at the math, that would result in at most around 1-2mm runout at 400mm length; little enough that I'd probably just tweak it during assembly.  :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 13, 2020, 12:16:56 am
So you're saying it has similarly proud center rail to the 40x40 we were talking about? Yeah; still not fit for purpose. I mean yeah, 7 thou is nowhere near as bad as what HobGoblyn showed us, but still... if I'd bought any quantity of that, and had the kind of problems as he's having getting things square, I'd probably raise holy hell with the supplier. If it was OpenBuilds, I'd expect a resolution... other sources; probably not, and have to open a ticket with PayPal.  :-//

I stated my measurements - which are in line with what HobGoblyn demonstrated. I've no need for a resolution as no part of my present usage of it depends on that face.

I'm going to pick one little nit here... what you measured is roughly .007 inch proud; less than the thickness of 2 sheets of the really cheap, thin copier paper. That would not even be visible in HobGoblyn's demonstration. What he shows is more like 20-30 thou, maybe more.

As I stated above; after looking at the math, that would result in at most around 1-2mm runout at 400mm length; little enough that I'd probably just tweak it during assembly.  :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:

I can generate a plenty fine rock on top of this extrusion, and it would, as you've said, create several millimetres of runout at length. His may be worse than mine - my point was merely that this sort of error exists even with the 'good stuff'. I can't speak to 80/20, but they don't make V-Slot, so it's a moot point.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 13, 2020, 11:54:08 am
Edit, read this post on my Ipad and it had all the wrong pictures including some from a future post. Cleared my cache on my PC and noticed the same thing was happening. Have now fixed the weird problem.

Creality got back to me about the unlevel c-slot, their response,

-------------------------------------
I think it is unlikely that the frame is the problem. If you are not sure if it is square though you might be best to lay it on a flat surface then tighten up the bolts to make sure the base is flat. There is normally a bit of play in it that you can adjust a bit.
Once you have done this you should be able to assemble it again and it should go together fine. It might be worth checking the uprights and the top bar are not bent though.
-------------------------------------

Anyway, to recap.

Rebuilt with perfectly square frame.

Dual extruder, esteps calibrated (and stored).

I've done the hot end fix, extrusion is working 100% perfectly (capricorn tubing)

Lock Nuts put on the end of the bed levelling screws so they don't turn when I adjust bed level.

Springs replaced with yellow springs.

Tightened yellow springs all the way, then undid then about 3 turns, then set my end stop (not needed now as have bltouch), the adjustment wheels are now quite stiff so I haven't got to worry about them vibrating around.

Replaced magnetic bed with glass bed, reset my z stop (although not needed now)

Added BLTouch (also using it to set my Z stop).

Installed correct firmware from Bigtreetech for BLtouch being used as Zstop

Homed with my BLtouch, then calibrated my z offset  (and stored settings).

Did 4 corner paper levelling to get bed as level as possible.

Did BLtouch 25 point autolevel and stored.

Got a level test STL, sliced it in Cura and kicked off a print. I came into the room as it was near finishing and heard loud clunks where the head was smashing through the rear left of the print (retraction and z hop are enabled in Cura)

The file I was printing is the CHEP_bed_level_test.stl that I got from https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3235018
 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3235018)

Here is the result


[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]


Here are my Cura settings


[attachimg=3]


Most of the rest of the print looked OK except for a layer shift in the final layer (and can also see a layer shift about 1/2 way up everywhere.   I'm not sure whether this may well have something to do with the nozzle clunking across the print rather than some other problem.


[attachimg=4]


I started the print from scratch (after again running 25 point BLTouch leveling and storing it), I notice at the start of every square, it's over squished, then I stopped the print.


[attachimg=5]
[attachimg=6]


I downloaded another level test  from someone else, only gcode no stl, so edited gcode in notepad++ and altered the nozzle to 205 and bed to 60, and added

M280 P0 S160 ; BLTouch alarm release
G4 P100 ; delay for BLTouch
G28 ; home
M420 S1 ;Load saved ABL Mesh for BL Touch

Here are pics of the left hand rear and the right hand rear.

[attachimg=7]

[attachimg=8]



It doesn't come out properly on the left hand photo, but the filament at the far left corner (not the circle) is much more translucent than the right hand
Also the filament on the left hand pic is almost double the width of the right hand.

I've just given it one more go, this time replacing the gcode line

M420 S1 ;Load saved ABL M

with

G29 ; auto bed levelling

so that it does the BLTouch 25 point levelling before doing the print.

It's just finished printing, it's 100% identical to the previous left and right hand pics.

I've run out of ideas of what to try next.


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on July 13, 2020, 12:41:28 pm
Knitting.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on July 13, 2020, 01:47:35 pm

Most of the rest of the print looked OK except for a layer shift in the final layer (and can also see a layer shift about 1/2 way up everywhere.   I'm not sure whether this may well have something to do with the nozzle clunking across the print rather than some other problem.

I ran into layer shifts a long time ago and did a lot of research on that. It turned out that I needed to set my jerk to 10 mm/s instead of 20 mm/s. After that the layer shifts were gone. Jerk setting is in the Speed settings area. You may have to open the full Settings menu to see it - Preferences - Configure Cura - Settings - Jerk.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 13, 2020, 01:54:26 pm
Is that the original bowden or have you put a direct drive extruder?

First thing I'd try is halving the max acceleration settings, to give more time to the extruder to do its thing better, properly, especially when approaching turns/corners and stops. As I've said before, the extruder (proper extrusion) is the most problematic / difficult thing to get right, IMHO.

Too low x/y stepper driver currents, and or too high acceleration, might also produce layer shifts.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 13, 2020, 02:00:56 pm
Is that the original bowden or have you put a direct drive extruder?

First thing I'd try is halving the max acceleration settings, to give more time to the extruder to do its thing better, properly, especially when approaching turns/corners and stops. As I've said before, the extruder (proper extrusion) is the most problematic / difficult thing to get right, IMHO.

Too low x/y stepper driver currents, and or too high acceleration, might also produce layer shifts.

Replaced original with  This one  (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07SY745CF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 13, 2020, 02:06:59 pm
Someone on Creality facebook said he had exactly the same problem printing the first file (where hot end hit rear left) but that all other files he tried were fine.

I was sceptical as the second level test I tried had thicket lines on the left than tyhe right.

But , whats another test, so I downloaded a third, and this is the result

Only a tiny error

This begs the question that two of the most recommended level tests appear to be corrupted in some way???

I was on the verge of sending it back as faulty and requesting a new one (fulfilled by Amazon)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 13, 2020, 02:13:36 pm

Most of the rest of the print looked OK except for a layer shift in the final layer (and can also see a layer shift about 1/2 way up everywhere.   I'm not sure whether this may well have something to do with the nozzle clunking across the print rather than some other problem.

I ran into layer shifts a long time ago and did a lot of research on that. It turned out that I needed to set my jerk to 10 mm/s instead of 20 mm/s. After that the layer shifts were gone. Jerk setting is in the Speed settings area. You may have to open the full Settings menu to see it - Preferences - Configure Cura - Settings - Jerk.

Thanks, Jerk wasn't enabled in mine, when I enabled it, everything had a default value of 8 mm/s
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 13, 2020, 02:31:20 pm
Ok, so it's still a bowden, right?

Bowdens only work well when the print is a continuous uninterrupted spaguetti, or, near interruptions/nozzle travels, with low acceleration.

Here is the proof:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=94559.0;attach=1022372;image)

IOW, that default 50 mm/s is too high a speed for the bowdens in these printers, those 20 something centimeters of filament between the extruder motor and the nozzle behave like a spring and make it almost impossible to cut/resume extrusion properly at high speeds => try the same print at lower speeds or at high speeds but decrease very much the acceleration, because if not the extruder can't keep up.

The best upgrade you can buy is a direct drive. Or make your own:

[attachimg=1]


It works beautifully :-) , much much better than the bowden!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on July 13, 2020, 04:08:49 pm
IOW, that default 50 mm/s is too high a speed for the bowdens in these printers, ...

In your opinion it might be too high, but mine's been at 50 mm/s ever since I got it and I have no problems with that speed with the bowden. I have beautiful prints when there isn't the occasional other random problem we all encounter from time to time.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 13, 2020, 05:07:25 pm
IOW, that default 50 mm/s is too high a speed for the bowdens in these printers, ...

In your opinion it might be too high, but mine's been at 50 mm/s ever since I got it and I have no problems with that speed with the bowden. I have beautiful prints when there isn't the occasional other random problem we all encounter from time to time.

Perhaps that's what you think, but even the atmega that comes built in can't keep up at those speeds... so maybe you think it was printing at 50 mm/s but it wasn't.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on July 13, 2020, 05:08:53 pm
Perhaps that's what you think, but even the atmega that comes built in can't keep up at those speeds... so maybe you think it was printing at 50 mm/s but it wasn't.

Perhaps that's what you think, so maybe you think it can't print at 50 mm/s but it was.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 13, 2020, 05:15:33 pm
Perhaps that's what you think, so maybe you think it can't print at 50 mm/s but it was.

Don't you ever see any hiccups?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on July 13, 2020, 05:23:58 pm
Perhaps that's what you think, so maybe you think it can't print at 50 mm/s but it was.

Don't you ever see any hiccups?

Nope. Besides I have a Bigtreetech SKR board so your comment doesn't apply to me. In any event it never had any problems even before that (with that setting). If it's set to 50 mm/s, and it's just able to physically do some slower speed that the software doesn't know about (but thinks it's actually doing 50 mm/s), then is the print going to come out OK?  :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 13, 2020, 06:14:13 pm
If it's set to 50 mm/s, and it's just able to physically do some slower speed that the software doesn't know about (but thinks it's actually doing 50 mm/s), then is the print going to come out OK?  :-//

Sort of ok-ish: Process a in the cpu translates gcode to stepper pulses and puts them in a buffer, process b pulls from the buffer and feeds pulses to the i/o ports, if the buffer ever gets empty (isn't being filled quick enough), you've got a hiccup, the trajectory will still be ok, but won't happen at the right time but a bit late(r).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 13, 2020, 06:41:19 pm
But with realistic accelerations you're not likely to actually get to 50mm/s much anyway on a machine like this.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 13, 2020, 07:06:41 pm
I reprinted the original at 40 mm/s and it looked the same
 
I then tried at 20 mm/s and it looked OK although I don't really want to print that slow, but it does mean my printer is OK

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=2]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 13, 2020, 08:13:05 pm
You can print faster, but dial down the acceleration.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 13, 2020, 11:46:09 pm
Is that the original bowden or have you put a direct drive extruder?

First thing I'd try is halving the max acceleration settings, to give more time to the extruder to do its thing better, properly, especially when approaching turns/corners and stops. As I've said before, the extruder (proper extrusion) is the most problematic / difficult thing to get right, IMHO.

Too low x/y stepper driver currents, and or too high acceleration, might also produce layer shifts.

Replaced original with  This one  (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07SY745CF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1)

Urrrggghhh. Okay. I have one of that dual-drive extruder sitting in the back of a drawer. Multiple reasons; first was I didn't feel like ducking around with my e-steps yet (the drive cog is smaller, meaning extrusion def needs to be recal'd) but another was QC. I meant to do a teardown on it and show resolution, but so far I haven't found a solution I don't feel squeamish about sharing. 

On mine, they cheaped-out on the screw for the driven cog; it's supposed to have a 3mm ground-finish shoulder bolt to provide a proper bearing surface for the needle bearing in the cog. Instead, they just used a cheap m3 screw, with the bearing riding right on the exposed threads.  :palm: This results in the cog not engaging the drive cog properly due to slop from a 3mm nominal bearing on a "shaft" of approx 2.6mm diameter. With threads cut in it.  :scared:

But worse, the way they had it assembled, the knurled drive groove did not align with the filament channel, it rode half a hole low.  |O These are in principle simple fitment issues that can be resolved with a trip to any hardware store with a decent assortment of metric hardware... But COVID.  ::)

There was a point I was getting with all this... oh yeah.  :P If you're having any issues that MIGHT be extrusion/retraction related, take that thing apart and look for the faults I've described. I'm sure my vendor wasn't the only one who played fast & loose with the BOM.  :palm:

mnem
 :bullshit:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 14, 2020, 01:52:39 pm
As I have until 31st July to return my Ender Pro to Amazon, I'm seriously thinking about returning it as faulty and getting another one.

Someone on Crealities facebook has the same problem as I've got and he says

"I have the same issue also... Frustrates the hell out of me. Have to take it apart again as my previous fixes with aluminium tape (layers of it between extrucions) has given up. 🤔 Had huge deviations when i had tighten all up. I do the check regularly as it has given me problems with Z-gantry and causes a lot of problems"

Sure I could use steel shims or file/grind the v extrusion, but I shouldn't have to.

But when I've had the printer 58 days and out of that 58 days, so far I've only managed to print a few temp towers, various layer tests  (most of those I had problems with) , a small armadillo and a small smurf, and when others say their Ender 3 is flat hence self aligns properly, I kind of feel like I've got a dud.

I have a feeling that my current printer is going to become an ongoing nightmare, decisions decisions
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on July 14, 2020, 02:25:52 pm
Sounds good to me. Start fresh and clean isn't a bad idea,  :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 14, 2020, 04:14:59 pm
Well while eating my lunch, I watched a YouTube vid of a guy assembling the V2 version of the Ender.  He had a download to a bed level setup program that goes around all 4 points (and centre) 4 times, with about a 6 sec pause between each point.

So I thought I'd just check how level my bed is, then use the BLTouch.

First time around, all 4 corners were very tight, had to be loosened quite a bit, second time around they needed a tweak but just gripped the paper, 3rd time round it was near perfect, 4th time around all 4 were as though the nozzle wasn't anywhere near the paper/bed.

I ran it again and all 4 were too tight (didn't adjust them when they were loose on the previous run).

That was it for me, boxed up, dropped off at Amazon pick up point :)  Usually I get the refunds within a few hours (don't return a lot though), if I get it in the next couple of hours can probably get a replacement here by tomorrow :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 14, 2020, 04:21:50 pm
You got a lemon...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 14, 2020, 06:49:17 pm
Now I'm thinking, do I go for another Ender pro or something else  :-DD



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on July 14, 2020, 07:10:02 pm
Now I'm thinking, do I go for another Ender pro or something else  :-DD

Staying out of this one.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 14, 2020, 07:59:35 pm
As I have until 31st July to return my Ender Pro to Amazon, I'm seriously thinking about returning it as faulty and getting another one.

Someone on Crealities facebook has the same problem as I've got and he says

"I have the same issue also... Frustrates the hell out of me. Have to take it apart again as my previous fixes with aluminium tape (layers of it between extrucions) has given up. 🤔 Had huge deviations when i had tighten all up. I do the check regularly as it has given me problems with Z-gantry and causes a lot of problems"

Sure I could use steel shims or file/grind the v extrusion, but I shouldn't have to.

But when I've had the printer 58 days and out of that 58 days, so far I've only managed to print a few temp towers, various layer tests  (most of those I had problems with) , a small armadillo and a small smurf, and when others say their Ender 3 is flat hence self aligns properly, I kind of feel like I've got a dud.

I have a feeling that my current printer is going to become an ongoing nightmare, decisions decisions

I had no idea you still had the warranty option. By all means, USE IT!

I'm ALL ABOUT the path of least resistance when it comes to my hobbies; they're supposed to be FUN, not a fukkin' ordeal.  :palm:

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=961992;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 14, 2020, 08:04:28 pm
Now I'm thinking, do I go for another Ender pro or something else  :-DD
Staying out of this one.  :-DD

   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/creality-heads-up-cr6-se-fully-auto-level-5-min-build-3dp-kickstarter-is-up/?action=dlattach;attach=985450;image)

mnem
 (https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/notme.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 14, 2020, 09:28:27 pm
Hehe, the cr6 se looks nice, but I can’t preorder until august and creality are currently listing the preorder price at $999
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: olkipukki on July 14, 2020, 10:18:29 pm
re: CR-6 SE

Quote
XY-axis positioning precision: +/- 0.01
:o

Is there any proof or this just a number from somebody head?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 14, 2020, 10:32:04 pm
Quote
XY-axis positioning precision: +/- 0.01
:o

Is there any proof or this just a number from somebody head?

Inches...? :-)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 14, 2020, 10:37:36 pm
re: CR-6 SE

Quote
XY-axis positioning precision: +/- 0.01
:o

Is there any proof or this just a number from somebody head?

1.8° stepper, 16 microsteps, 16-tooth drive gear, 2mm belt pitch. Repeatability is another matter.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 15, 2020, 05:01:15 am
Hehe, the cr6 se looks nice, but I can’t preorder until august and creality are currently listing the preorder price at $999

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1023682;image)   Naaah, that's what the giant edition CR6-MAX is supposed to cost; we were offered it for $699 during the Kickstarter. I got mine at $319 for like 28% off MSRP, according to the Kickstarter. The regular CR6-SE is supposed to list at ~US$409-419, depending on whether they make the optical Z-sensor part of the base model.

*Goes and looks* Holy fucking asscrackers! They sure are making you pay a premium to pre-order anytime this year, aren't they? Guess they have some deals brewing with their usual distributors.  :palm: Maybe they're putting up that price on the site to scare you off until August so their distributor deals don't go sour...  :-//

mnem
Inscrutible muthaf****s...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 15, 2020, 05:29:58 am
The Kickstarter Stretch Goals that were unlocked are: 32-bit board w/TMC2209 steppers, 10x spare 0.40 nozzle and spare PTFE bowden tube. I'd sure have preferred Cap tube, given they exceeded goal by 3800%, but eh... whatcha gonna do?  :-//

Now they're saying the first batch is ready to ship out... which is nice, I suppose. But it appears they've gone brain-dead on the logistics, and are fucking with the promised delivery dates to secure cheaper shipping in bulk. Never mind that we already PAID for courier shipping up front.  |O

If you're ready for some drama, scope this shit out: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit/posts/2892905 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit/posts/2892905)

I recommend you avoid their FB page; I'm sure it has gone Godwin's Law thermal at least a dozen times by now.  :palm:

Well, it looks likely that my unit won't even built by the end of August as promised... so at least I won't have to worry about packing it or where they're sending it as I have to move by the end of August.

mnem
"Hold onto your butts!"
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 15, 2020, 01:14:44 pm
Watched a ton of youtube vids etc, came to the conclusion I might as well get another Ender 3 Pro :)

While I like the box frame of the Ender 5, I don't like that the entire bed appears to be suspended from just one side.

The CR 10 mini is another contender but Amazon UK hasn't got any.

The bigger CR10S,  I don't think I will need that size build plate, hence will waste time waiting for the larger bed to heat up.

As I have the TFT V3 and SKR mini V2 from Bigtreetec, two different metal extruders and Capricorn tubing, it's not worth me getting the Ender 3 V2  (and my screen wont fit), I am tempted to buy the extra Z axis kit if I go for the Ender 3 Pro again.   

Then again the CR10S already has the extra Z axis and both my screen and board will fit. Can buy an open box CR10 V2 for exactly the same price I paid for my Ender 3 pro

I hate it when I feel like this, I want to order now for delivery tomorrow, but I can't make up my mind which route to go :)

And I hate it when people leave 1 or 2 stars on Amazon but give no reason why
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on July 15, 2020, 02:03:08 pm
My son has an Ender 5 and your concerns about the cantilever base is well founded.  Its resonant frequency is often excited by bed movement, spoiling prints.  No solution in hand.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 15, 2020, 02:54:49 pm
There were two CR10 V2 available an hour ago, one has already gone,  I succumbed to temptation and got the other one :)  Cost me £15 more than the Ender 3 refund, couldn't resist
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on July 15, 2020, 10:46:26 pm
Mystery print in progress ...  :popcorn:

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 15, 2020, 11:07:19 pm
There were two CR10 V2 available an hour ago, one has already gone,  I succumbed to temptation and got the other one :)  Cost me £15 more than the Ender 3 refund, couldn't resist

So now the question is, what are you getting yourself into with an open box one? :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 16, 2020, 04:35:44 am
Yeah... let's hope NOT one that was returned for the same assache you just put to rest.  :palm:

mnem
If you're going to risk assache, at least try to make it a new assache.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Flump on July 16, 2020, 07:42:32 am
Had my Ender3 now for a couple of years I use it quite a bit for making custom parts for RC Cars.
Printing 10x face shields for a local Chemist/Pharmacy shop as I type this.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: bitwelder on July 16, 2020, 09:57:18 am
As the Ender 3 (Pro) has rather noisy fans, I've seen some projects that aim to replace the MeanWell PSU fan with a larger (and slower and hence quieter) one.
But because of larger hole needed, the original metal PSU cover has to be replaced by a 3D-printed one (e.g.  https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4503364 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4503364) )

What do you think about this kind of mods (esp. safety-wise) ? Personally, I wouldn't feel 100% comfortable leaving a printer running for long time in that state.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Flump on July 16, 2020, 10:05:30 am
I don't see why people get hung up on the noise 3D Printers make, my E3 is in the same room I live in which is about 15ft square
and when it's running I just go about my daily business which includes watching movies.
Maybe some fans are faulty but honestly my E3 is really unobtrusive when it's running.

Changing the fan and making new cover seems a lot of hassle for negligible drop in noise.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on July 16, 2020, 10:16:08 am
Some people are naturally tolerant of high levels of ambient noise.  Others ... not so much.

Then there are the situations where tolerance is developed - such as when I first moved out of home.  That was into a unit which was on a major traffic thoroughfare that had a "Stop" sign 50m from the driveway.  The road wasn't the smoothest piece of bitumen and when empty dump trucks with dogs pulled up, the noise echoed.  These trucks and other traffic were a constant source of noise ... but I got used to it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on July 16, 2020, 11:12:35 am
It's a scale model 40 foot cube container for my N scale model railroad. They are used in so-called intermodal shipping (ships, trains, and trucks). If you didn't already know it, I have been working on my model RR for about two years now.

The model came out as perfectly as this machine can produce. In the pic behind the printed model you can see a model sold by Kato. it's a "high" cube " container which is 1 foot taller than the cube container - that's why it's a little higher. The Kato model goes for about $15 each. So the savings can add up very quickly. I'm going to print out a lot of these models - both standard and high cube - to stack up in the intermodal area I'm working on now.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 16, 2020, 11:48:06 am
There were two CR10 V2 available an hour ago, one has already gone,  I succumbed to temptation and got the other one :)  Cost me £15 more than the Ender 3 refund, couldn't resist

So now the question is, what are you getting yourself into with an open box one? :)

Yeah... let's hope NOT one that was returned for the same assache you just put to rest.  :palm:

mnem
If you're going to risk assache, at least try to make it a new assache.

Hehe. I would have got there in the end with the Ender 3, but I didn't see why I should be replacing parts, or spending hours more of my time just trying to get it to work right (not talking about tweaking Cura etc, I'm talking about when I run 5 point bed level a few times in a row, and some times it's spot on, and sometimes there's about 3mm gap)

I'm usually excellent at fixing things, just got to the point where after 50 odd days, and with only 2 weeks left to return it, returning it was the best course of action,  a replacement machine is a fresh start for me :)

Amazon is currently listing the CR10 V2 for £469 (I know it can be got a bit cheaper elsewhere), so paying £15 more than the £279 they refunded me for my Ender 3, even if I ended up having to replace a couple of bits, I doubt they would come anywhere near to the £175 price difference.

The description said quote "Like New - Item will come in original packaging. Packaging will be damaged". 

If I needed to, I can get the Vframe easy enough in the UK, just checked prices on one site and for 650mm upright it's £9.83, for 550mm that uprights screws into, it's only £8.32  (inc VAT + £2.63 postage), motors are available on Amazon for next day delivery for £10 etc.  And of course can probably get them much cheaper if I get elsewhere.

My point being, when I get a saving like this, I'm not too bothered if something is damaged as it's easily replaceable for very little money (already have brand new SKR V2 board,  TFT V3 screen and BLTouch).

I do have a spare creality glass bed though if anyone (in UK) wants it, used just for a couple of days while I did those level tests.

It's all the fault of sn4k3   :-DD  I was happily learning my electronics hobby when I made a post about soldering iron tip stand and he said

Quote
My own design does that, not heat proof but the body that goes inside is cold and no damage is made to the plastic:

Also if you want you can use reflective tape to heat proof it easy

If you have a printer you can print yourself.

And i can customize spacing, rows, cols for you if you want

I'd always wanted a printer, but him saying that was what pushed me into getting one now  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 16, 2020, 12:15:41 pm
@HobGoblyn save a few quid for a direct drive.

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1210/0176/products/Micro_Swiss_Extruder_with_Hotend_b9d5a8dc-390a-4112-866f-7f6f2784d22c_480x480.png?v=1589642986)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 16, 2020, 04:31:17 pm
I don't see why people get hung up on the noise 3D Printers make, my E3 is in the same room I live in which is about 15ft square
and when it's running I just go about my daily business which includes watching movies.
Maybe some fans are faulty but honestly my E3 is really unobtrusive when it's running.

Changing the fan and making new cover seems a lot of hassle for negligible drop in noise.

Without the silent board, my ender 3 was very intrusive when watching TV. 

I agree about the fans though, mind you my PC has about 5 fans so I'm used to the noise :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 16, 2020, 04:33:14 pm
@HobGoblyn save a few quid for a direct drive.

(https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1210/0176/products/Micro_Swiss_Extruder_with_Hotend_b9d5a8dc-390a-4112-866f-7f6f2784d22c_480x480.png?v=1589642986)

Do you really see a £110 difference?  I was tempted to just get the Microswiss hot end and use my dual extruder (dual extruder worked really well on my Ender)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 16, 2020, 04:41:26 pm
For that price you should at least get a proper geared one..

That kit won't fit a CR-10 V2 anyway.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 16, 2020, 04:43:07 pm
Was just about to edit my post as I just saw on Amazon that the hotend kit doesn't fit the V2
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 16, 2020, 04:58:52 pm
There are a few to choose from, microswiss is the most expensive of them all.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 16, 2020, 04:59:47 pm
There are a few to choose from, microswiss is the most expensive of them all.

.. actually, they're not, and that also doesn't equate to best.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 16, 2020, 05:17:06 pm
Someones printed a bracket allowing you to move the extruder right over the hot end for the V2

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4032096 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4032096)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 16, 2020, 05:22:35 pm
As the Ender 3 (Pro) has rather noisy fans, I've seen some projects that aim to replace the MeanWell PSU fan with a larger (and slower and hence quieter) one.
But because of larger hole needed, the original metal PSU cover has to be replaced by a 3D-printed one (e.g.  https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4503364 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4503364) )

What do you think about this kind of mods (esp. safety-wise) ? Personally, I wouldn't feel 100% comfortable leaving a printer running for long time in that state.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1024848;image)   Mmmhmmm... I'd be worried about SMPS EMI/switching noise escaping the enclosure with that metal gone more than anything.

It doesn't appear the removed cover on this particular unit is used as a heat-sink, so... "meh? It's your fingers, your risk to take...?"

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 16, 2020, 05:32:10 pm
I don't see why people get hung up on the noise 3D Printers make, my E3 is in the same room I live in which is about 15ft square and when it's running I just go about my daily business which includes watching movies. Maybe some fans are faulty but honestly my E3 is really unobtrusive when it's running. Changing the fan and making new cover seems a lot of hassle for negligible drop in noise.

Some of us have a wife and kids who like to sleep, work in the office, be able to hear on the phone, etc.   ::)  As bad as the 30mm screamin' mimis that came on my Diggro were, the whine from those sources was much worse; in combination it was more than enough to make life miserable for me. Hence MY adventure with a Fang Layer cooler, etc...  ;)

My net was 8-10dB drop, so NOT negligible.  :-+

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 16, 2020, 05:34:06 pm
Someones printed a bracket allowing you to move the extruder right over the hot end for the V2

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4032096 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4032096)

That's a good thing for starters...

But later you will want a smaller stepper than that because after the conversion it's going to become an added dead weight on the carriage, but a smaller stepper has less torque => you want one that comes with a reduction gear (to multiply the torque of the now less torquey stepper), like for example a bondtech: https://www.bondtech.se/en/ (https://www.bondtech.se/en/)

There are many others, and copies too, in aliexpress, banggood etc.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cr10+direct+drive (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cr10+direct+drive)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 16, 2020, 05:55:04 pm
...If you're going to risk assache, at least try to make it a new assache.

Hehe. I would have got there in the end with the Ender 3, but I didn't see why I should be replacing parts, or spending hours more of my time just trying to get it to work right (not talking about tweaking Cura etc, I'm talking about when I run 5 point bed level a few times in a row, and some times it's spot on, and sometimes there's about 3mm gap)

I'm usually excellent at fixing things, just got to the point where after 50 odd days, and with only 2 weeks left to return it, returning it was the best course of action,  a replacement machine is a fresh start for me :)

Amazon is currently listing the CR10 V2 for £469 (I know it can be got a bit cheaper elsewhere), so paying £15 more than the £279 they refunded me for my Ender 3, even if I ended up having to replace a couple of bits, I doubt they would come anywhere near to the £175 price difference. The description said quote "Like New - Item will come in original packaging. Packaging will be damaged". 

If I needed to, I can get the Vframe easy enough in the UK, just checked prices on one site and for 650mm upright it's £9.83, for 550mm that uprights screws into, it's only £8.32  (inc VAT + £2.63 postage), motors are available on Amazon for next day delivery for £10 etc.  And of course can probably get them much cheaper if I get elsewhere.

My point being, when I get a saving like this, I'm not too bothered if something is damaged as it's easily replaceable for very little money (already have brand new SKR V2 board,  TFT V3 screen and BLTouch).

I do have a spare creality glass bed though if anyone (in UK) wants it, used just for a couple of days while I did those level tests.

It's all the fault of sn4k3   :-DD  I was happily learning my electronics hobby when I made a post about soldering iron tip stand and he said:

Quote from: sn4k3
My own design does that, not heat proof but the body that goes inside is cold and no damage is made to the plastic: Also if you want you can use reflective tape to heat proof it easy If you have a printer you can print yourself.And i can customize spacing, rows, cols for you if you want

I'd always wanted a printer, but him saying that was what pushed me into getting one now  :-DD

LOL.... that sounds pretty much EXACTLY like my own journey down the rabbit-hole... now on it's 5th... woops, 6th iteration with the CR6-SE.  >:D

Absolutely agree... I thought you'd long ago gone past "the point of no returns". If you can save yourself the assache of trying to re-engineer a effed-up kit because of inferior materials just by exercising the right to return... which you DO pay a premium for on Amazon... then for shit's sake, DO IT. :-+

I'll be honest... the fact it came from and was fulfilled by Amazon for USD$190 was the single biggest selling point on my Diggro... Well, okay, the "Oooooh, shiny..." :o factor of the touchscreen and smooth-face extrusion WERE what first caught my eye, but without Amazon's liberal return policy, I'd NEVER have taken the risk on a nobody-name kit-maker like Longer.

I was VERY pleasantly surprised by one thing: The quality, fit & finish of that new extrusion. THAT was 100% Longer 3D; they made a simple, reasonably rigid frame that assembled square & true with a minimum of assache, and looks good doing it.  :-+ After that, my continuing adventures were really just tinker-dwagon fucking-around and me wanting more from it than the designers ever intended.  :-DD

mnem
 :clap:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 16, 2020, 08:14:02 pm
Someones printed a bracket allowing you to move the extruder right over the hot end for the V2

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4032096 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4032096)

That's a good thing for starters...

But later you will want a smaller stepper than that because after the conversion it's going to become an added dead weight on the carriage, but a smaller stepper has less torque => you want one that comes with a reduction gear (to multiply the torque of the now less torquey stepper), like for example a bondtech: https://www.bondtech.se/en/ (https://www.bondtech.se/en/)

There are many others, and copies too, in aliexpress, banggood etc.

https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cr10+direct+drive (https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=cr10+direct+drive)

Most wont fit the VR10 V2, I spent a while googling for CR10 direct drives and none I found were suitable for the V2 except for the one Creality sells, I will watch those vids later though.

I've discovered the V2 hot end is a clone of https://e3d-online.com/products/v6-all-metal-hotend (https://e3d-online.com/products/v6-all-metal-hotend)

The one Creality sells is https://www.creality3dofficial.com/products/creality-titan-extruder-direct-drive-for-cr-10-v2?variant=31607172366409 (https://www.creality3dofficial.com/products/creality-titan-extruder-direct-drive-for-cr-10-v2?variant=31607172366409)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 16, 2020, 08:19:22 pm
I believe it was Covid that caused Amazon UK to announce that they had extended the return of all purchases to July 31st.

I placed an order on 10th Feb that said return date was 11th March, I and my wife have ordered loads since 15th Feb and everything had a return date of July 31st.  Orders since July are back to their 30 days
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 16, 2020, 09:26:07 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1024978;image)

Yeah, multiple stories like this one are why I've never personally been too keen on "Titan quality".  :-// Making a load-bearing part of brittle plastic, and not changing the design when it proves problematic, is not my idea of customer responsiveness.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 16, 2020, 09:42:25 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1024978;image)

Yeah, multiple stories like this one are why I've never personally been too keen on "Titan quality".  :-// Making a load-bearing part of brittle plastic, and not changing the design when it proves problematic, is not my idea of customer responsiveness.

mnem
 :-/O

They did change the design, the plastic wasn't actually the problem. It's not brittle. In the end they did change it to a different plastic, also not brittle.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 17, 2020, 04:30:57 am
There is just so much bad engineering there... it makes me cringe. Big bearing bore, thin walls, screws that hold the entire weight of the assembly going through it and no metal reinforcements... needs twice that mass in plastic, and even then would still probably break under some people's heavy hand.

The right way to fix it would be a CNC AL plate with a peephole where the filament goes between the pinion/roller. Done and done, plus you can tighten it enough to keep from shaking loose without worrying about grenading the plastic. But then, once you start CNC-ing, you start thinking about the lever, and the base, and...  :palm:

mnem
Bah. I'm with Brumby... time to take up knitting. :-\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 17, 2020, 06:14:46 am
It only takes two straps, one in X + one in Y, to hold the pinion axis. IOW there's more than plenty enough plastic in there, too much, it's excessive, most of it is useless.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 17, 2020, 01:03:32 pm
There is just so much bad engineering there... it makes me cringe. Big bearing bore, thin walls, screws that hold the entire weight of the assembly going through it and no metal reinforcements... needs twice that mass in plastic, and even then would still probably break under some people's heavy hand.

The right way to fix it would be a CNC AL plate with a peephole where the filament goes between the pinion/roller. Done and done, plus you can tighten it enough to keep from shaking loose without worrying about grenading the plastic. But then, once you start CNC-ing, you start thinking about the lever, and the base, and...  :palm:

mnem
Bah. I'm with Brumby... time to take up knitting. :-\

.. but they didn't break because of being brittle (again, it's not a brittle material) or people being heavy handed, they broke because the bearing lubricant attacked the plastic.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 17, 2020, 04:38:56 pm
It's here yay.

Just built it, only just fits in (that's with me moving 2nd monitor back), and have to put filament holder the wrong way around (else filament reel will hit printer), which means putting something heavy on the electronics box to stop it tipping.

What would be nice would be to have filament holder mounted say on top of printer, and lengthen the cables on the box, then I could move printer to left of table, have screen on right and be able to easily view my 2nd monitor.

Here's where I'm at, now to start levelling and do a test :)

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on July 17, 2020, 05:01:22 pm
The suspense is killing me.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 17, 2020, 05:36:59 pm
Oh gawd... now I'm reminded. If there's one thing I DO appreciate about the Diggro... it's that the control box is integral. I got SO tired of having to set the gantry and the bed "just so" to have enough slack in cables to put the box on the bed... and then either unload or balance the spool on top of that so I could move the damned thing. The Diggro is so much easier; just unplug the IEC cable and stuff the damn thing in the bottom of a closet. DONE.

Of course, it is also about 1/3 the build volume, and yes, I know exactly how much of a PITA it is to service something that big on its side... so yeah, tradeoffs. :-//

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 17, 2020, 05:48:09 pm
There is just so much bad engineering there... it makes me cringe. Big bearing bore, thin walls, screws that hold the entire weight of the assembly going through it and no metal reinforcements... needs twice that mass in plastic, and even then would still probably break under some people's heavy hand.

The right way to fix it would be a CNC AL plate with a peephole where the filament goes between the pinion/roller. Done and done, plus you can tighten it enough to keep from shaking loose without worrying about grenading the plastic. But then, once you start CNC-ing, you start thinking about the lever, and the base, and...  :palm:

mnem
Bah. I'm with Brumby... time to take up knitting. :-\

.. but they didn't break because of being brittle (again, it's not a brittle material) or people being heavy handed, they broke because the bearing lubricant attacked the plastic.

No, they broke because of "just enough to do the job" engineering to save a few pennies a copy in material. THEN the shortfalls in that engineering became quite manifest because there was ZERO wiggle room. THEN they blamed the bearings because they used a polycarbonate material which is known for embrittlement with time, which timeframe was drastically shortened by exposure to that lubricant. They literally did not CARE about the embrittlement issue... just so long as the part lasted long enough to not be their problem. ::)

I remember the arguments over this shit, and I've built enough small, precision machinery like this from scratch... I know better. It's just plain bad engineering on multiple fronts.

That is my OPINION... you can take it under consideration or ignore it.

mnem
*sigh*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 17, 2020, 06:11:38 pm
Currently printing out the pig that game on sdcard, zero problems so far :)

Only thing I had to do, unlike the ender 3 where the z stop has T nuts hence can be adjusted, this has pre drilled/threaded holes, hence it's fixed.  Bed was too far away, the wheels were so loose you could blow on them to move them.  Had to elongate the holes to move zstop down a bit.

So far very very pleased. V Slot felt like they were self aligning rather than my ender where it felt like they were swinging on a pendulum

Hardest bit of assembly was for me to get the wheels on the y adjusted properly.   6 wheels, 2 eccentric one side, 1 the other

[attachimg=1]


Maybe I'm too OCD about this, but I spent ages getting it so you turn any of the 6 wheels and the Y axis moved moved.  Logically (to me) I loosened the 3 eccentric wheels, lightly tightened the two on the left, making sure the middle wheel on the left could still grip, and making sure the outer two wheels the other side did too, then all I had to do was slowly adjust the right middle eccentric nut until it just gripped then all must be OK.  The reality of course was completely different,  very slightly adjusted middle right wheel, then other two right hand wheels were loose etc. Took ages  to get them all just gripping but I finally got there.

No Cura profile for my printer, presume I can use CR10 S as that appears to be the closest printer to mine

Leaving it as is for a while, at some point I will fit BLTouch and touch screen and SKR mini, but for now, I'm just pleased it finally appears to be working :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 18, 2020, 12:49:59 pm
What a difference.

After assembly and adjusting z stop, simply homed, then disabled steppers and did 4 corner manual levelling.

I tried the pig on the SD card.

Very happy with my first print, underneath centre is where I removed supports and rough bit on one leg is where I removed raft.

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]


Then all I did was calibrate E steps, absolutely nothing else, didn't re-level, and I did a level test.  Couldn't have come close to this on MY  Ender 3.  I used CR10S profile for cura, layer test is not quite centred on bed (over to the left and too far forward) but from Curas default settings I'm very happy with the result and very very pleased I sent my old printer back, here's pics part way through and when it's finished.

[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]




Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on July 18, 2020, 01:31:42 pm
Looks great! Now that it's working you can go ahead and buy aftermarket parts and break it again.  :-DD

No, I think this time you are going to be OK.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 18, 2020, 04:16:46 pm
You beat me to it...  :-DD

mnem
Tricksy little ninja; xrunner... yessss.... tricksy he izzzz...  >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 18, 2020, 06:15:58 pm
Just did another test, again default cr10s profile, it looks OK to me, sure a bit of stringing, but haven't adjusted any settings yet.

Wont bore you with any more test prints after this

[attachimg=1]

[attachimg=2]

[attachimg=3]

[attachimg=4]

[attachimg=5]


I have my new SKR mini v2, TFT v3 and Bltouch begging to be installed, but it's working so well at the moment, I think I'll leave off for a while :)

Also have a brand new (well used for one day) ender 3 creality glass bed going for free if anyone in the UK wants it, I'll treat you to postage as thanks for all the help I've had here
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 19, 2020, 04:59:56 pm
There's something odd on this forum when posting pics.  I've cleared my browser cashe, reloaded the page and most the pics are wrong.  I've just spent ages redoing it and as soon as I clear my cashe and reload, they go wrong again  (first noticed this when I accessed forum from a different device.

Post 1179 should show a badly drawn example of how my offset wheels are,  it now shows my pig.
Post 1180 is correct
Post  1183, the last 2 pics ace correct, the first two now show the pigs from post 1180.

All the uploaded pics have completely different names, really weird. 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 19, 2020, 05:01:10 pm
There's something odd on this forum when posting pics.  I've cleared my browser cashe, reloaded the page and most the pics are wrong.  I've just spent ages redoing it and as soon as I clear my cashe and reload, they go wrong again  (first noticed this when I accessed forum from a different device.

Post 1179 should show a badly drawn example of how my offset wheels are,  it now shows my pig.
Post 1180 is correct
Post  1183, the last 2 pics ace correct, the first two now show the pigs from post 1180.

All the uploaded pics have completely different names, really weird.

Yes, things are a bit broken, it's been going on a while.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 19, 2020, 05:05:57 pm
I've looked at the LCD on my CR10 v2, and it looked smaller than the Ender 3.

Googling, the Ender 3 spec is:   Screen Size: 8 * 5cm/ 3 * 2in,   Item Size: Approx. 9.3 * 9cm / 3.7 * 3.5in

CR10 V2 is: Display Size: 7x4cm / 2.75" x 1.57", Display Mainboard Size: 9.2x8.5cm / 3.6" x 3.34"

Which is a shame, I suppose I could test it out on the SKR V2 board and see what it looks like, could always make the display window hole bigger.   
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 19, 2020, 05:40:50 pm
But if you do that then you can't return it to try a sidewinder x1 next month.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 19, 2020, 08:25:22 pm
There's something odd on this forum when posting pics.  I've cleared my browser cashe, reloaded the page and most the pics are wrong.  I've just spent ages redoing it and as soon as I clear my cashe and reload, they go wrong again  (first noticed this when I accessed forum from a different device.

Post 1179 should show a badly drawn example of how my offset wheels are,  it now shows my pig.
Post 1180 is correct
Post  1183, the last 2 pics ace correct, the first two now show the pigs from post 1180.

All the uploaded pics have completely different names, really weird.

Yes, things are a bit broken, it's been going on a while.

Yeah, it's a problem in the Forum software that's been kicking me in the   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image)   repeatedly for weeks now; sometimes an attachment gets borked and the thumb (therefore the link to the actual pic as well) thereafter refers to a pic you posted later on in the timeline of a thread.  |O

I tend to suffer more than most because I'm a heavy abuser of attachments; a byproduct of being the class clown is you use a lot of props. ;)

You can fix it... but the least painful method appears to be to just add the borked pic again to the post if possible and leave the borked thumb alone. Otherwise, if you delete the borked thumb, you'll almost always bork ANOTHER post further back in the timeline when fixing the one in question. :palm:

It seems to happen most if somehow the post is interrupted between uploading the pic(s) and pressing the [POST] button; so I usually try to complete the text of my post first, then review so if there's a "new post" warning it doesn't happen at that critical time, then put up my pics just before posting.

Also it seems to help if you resize your pics to less than 300KB and wait like a 10-count between the point where your last pic finishes uploading and the thumb appears, and pressing the [POST] button.

But STILL... even doing all this hocus-pocus... I STILL get hit from time to time. So all that still MAY BE just that... hocus-pocus. :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 20, 2020, 05:56:12 pm
Printer still behaving it's self :)

Today I tried printing PETG for my first time, for the small temp tower I took Curas default bed temp of 80c.  Taller tower I had the bed at 60c and it seemed to stick fine while printing and came off super easy when finished.

Tons of stringing, any advice?

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 20, 2020, 05:59:47 pm
PETG needs moderately aggressive retraction and fast travel moves, but stringing is still a problem with it. Bowden makes it quite hard to control.

E: Those actually aren't bad for PETG. Don't expect it to be totally clean no matter how hard you try.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 20, 2020, 07:11:10 pm
Yeah, i was about to say... "You printed those in PETG...? Well done! Be glad of those results!"

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 20, 2020, 07:35:58 pm
Quote
Tons of stringing, any advice?

A blowtorch...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tautech on July 20, 2020, 09:26:09 pm
Quote
Tons of stringing, any advice?

A blowtorch...
Wow yes, a good suggestion I suspect.
I know when I've done work with Lexan a pass with a flame over the worked edges finishes them like glass.  8)

Who's actually used one for tidying up 3D prints ?  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 20, 2020, 09:26:58 pm
I can't say I've used a blowtorch, but hot air works well against very fine stringing.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on July 20, 2020, 11:14:50 pm
I've tried a blowtorch to improve the finish of PTA prints.  It was a disaster.  Before the surface could soften enough to allow surface tension to pull it smooth the bulk of the print had softened enough to sag and distort. I'm sure those results could be improved by adjusting fill density, skin thickness and other parameters but it isn't an easy magic solution.

Still seems like it might be a good solution for fine threading.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 21, 2020, 03:10:00 am
Your results are pretty universal, in my experience. Before the surface smooths, the individual layers start to pull inward or away from each other due to internal stress from the FDM process; like a stamped metal pan, there's oodles of potential energy trapped in your prints and I'm not just talking about the hydrocarbons.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tom66 on July 21, 2020, 11:47:44 am
I use hot air or a lighter to clean stringiness with no issues.  PETG gets stringier if it gets wet so drying the reels before use can help (70C in household oven works OK)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 21, 2020, 04:39:02 pm
Tried an actual print with PETG, 10 mins ago I was watching TV, I glanced at the printer and thought how well it was doing, 5 secs later it came free from the bed  :-DD

Don't think I need PETG for what I was printing anyway,  think I'll put it back in the box for now :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 21, 2020, 04:52:48 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1024130)

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YCLJK46/ (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07YCLJK46/)

I got one of these last week to fill out a free shipping minimum and for doing heat-shrink. Make sure you get THIS ONE: It has the LO-OFF-HI switch and it works; there are two distinctly different heat/speed ranges. It also has a Bakelite nozzle ring. Because of reports of "funny smells" if you run it too long, I took mine apart and lined the heater-tube portion with Kapton tape. The body is ABS, and there are a couple of protruding tabs that are in line of sight with the IR radiation of the heating coils which I also wrapped with Kapton. No funny smells after using to fix wiring on a industrial sewing machine I'm fixing up to flip, and the Kapton gave another interesting benefit: it quieted the resonance of the ABS shell, making it feel & sound much smoother/quieter. :-+

Really, hard to beat for 12 bux shipped next day; I spent more than that on bagels & coffee at Tim Horton's yesterday.  :-DD

mnem
*poot!*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 21, 2020, 05:38:12 pm
I'll try my hot air station, just checked, 100C min temp
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on July 21, 2020, 11:08:34 pm
I've tried various hot air guns and my hot air soldering station with no remarkable success.  Best results have come from the soldering station because the limit area of the nozzle and relatively low air volume allows more precise control of the heat at the plastic surface.  But those best results weren't good enough to make it worth doing on anything I actually want to build.

The hot air guns included a high power (1 kW) industrial gun, lower power guns designed to shrink Monokote covering for model airplanes, hair dryers and a couple of random guns out of the toolbox.  I am a tool junkie and cannot pass a yard sale or swap meet without seeing what needs to be adopted.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 22, 2020, 03:21:21 am
Tool dwagon is the same way. I just adopted another battery-deficient cordless drill...  :palm:

I was talking about for nuking threads, tho; not heat-polishing. I still believe that is a just a colossal circle-jerk.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on July 22, 2020, 03:32:12 am
We call them Garage Sales here in Oz .... and, well, I ain't confessin' nuttin!   ::)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 22, 2020, 03:47:11 am
No, this one was a curb-score. As was the lawnmower and gas BBQ now cluttering up the garage... |O

I figured worst-case, I'll use the drill to make a e-bike.  :-DD

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 22, 2020, 08:02:50 am
Strange lines

The first (long) line is extra filament rather than a groove  (last picture).

The second line is a groove, I first tried printing this in PETG, that came away from the bed and I reprinted it in PLA.  As you can see from the pics, both had this groove in exactly the same place (the face the groove appears on was facing the bed)

Have also included a pic showing the position on the bed it was printed on.


This is the item I was trying to print https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3459269 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3459269)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 22, 2020, 09:19:25 am
There's nothing weird in the .stl, must be the slicer:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 22, 2020, 11:27:01 am
Weird, it looks OK to me (not that I really know how to use it properly yet)

Attached is a pic after slicing of the bottom layer  (looking at it from underneath, hence the finished face)

Also attached the Cura .3mf file (if anyone that has Cura wants to take a look), need to change file name from .doc to .3mf
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 22, 2020, 01:18:47 pm
There's nothing weird in the slicer, must be something else :-)

There's a bit of underextrusion here:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1028344;image)

Maybe try printing a bit slower? (or dial down the acceleration, because the problems are near the ends/extremes of the spaguettis).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 22, 2020, 06:04:12 pm
I just printed a flat square over the same area I printed the lcd mount, it printed flawlessly
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 22, 2020, 06:53:02 pm
Maybe something to do with your Cura coasting settings (https://all3dp.com/2/cura-retraction-settings-how-to-avoid-stringing/)?  :-//
Personally, I think you just wanted a excuse to "innocently" post dickballs in thread:   [attach=1]

mnem
 >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 23, 2020, 11:36:38 am
Ender 3 on sale 157 euros today (use code VIP9):

https://www.creality3dshop.eu/products/creality-ender-3-3d-printer-economic-ender-diy-kits-with-resume-printing-function-v-slot-prusa-i3-220x220x250mm (https://www.creality3dshop.eu/products/creality-ender-3-3d-printer-economic-ender-diy-kits-with-resume-printing-function-v-slot-prusa-i3-220x220x250mm)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 23, 2020, 12:31:06 pm
Now "€166,00 Sale"... Oh, wait I see. They're actually letting you use that discount code on top of the sale price. Hey... better in your pocket than theirs.  :-+ That's halfway to a roll of filament. ;)

mnem
Think I'm gonna hold out for my CR6.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 23, 2020, 12:45:18 pm
I don't like the Ender 3, all my crealitys are CR10s.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 23, 2020, 01:04:53 pm
Well after seeing the misery HobGoblyn suffered with his, not sure I do either.  :o  But at least ordering from there you KNOW you're not getting some 3rd-party franchisee manufactured unit.  :-//

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 23, 2020, 06:29:37 pm
Been playing around with my TFT35 E3 V3 touch screen and my CR10 V2

Using original Creality board, connecting EXP1 on the Creality to EXP 3 on the TFT works fine in Marlin mode.

But the original Creality screen had both EXP1 and EXP2 connected, I'm trying to work out what EXP2 was used for  (can't seem to find much info on the CR10 V2 motherboard).

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 23, 2020, 06:32:27 pm
Well after seeing the misery HobGoblyn suffered with his, not sure I do either.  :o  But at least ordering from there you KNOW you're not getting some 3rd-party franchisee manufactured unit.  :-//

mnem
 :-/O

In all fairness, most people seem more than happy with them. Mine was from a company called Comgrow who also sell their own make stuff, so it's possible it was made under license.  Mind you, CR10 came from same company
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 23, 2020, 10:28:22 pm
Well, no... my complaint with that arrangement is that you the buyer don't know what you're getting; it's bad enough when you buy directly from CReality. They ARE a China-direct manufacturer/vendor after all; so of course there's "larger variations than most Westerners would like" in their QC as well. Just that when you add "franchisee" to the mix, it becomes a colossal fustercluck of finger-pointing and blame-shifting; or at least this was the case with the horror stories I was reading back when I bought my Tevo Tornado.

That was in fact a major point that led me to purchase the Tornado; I figured if you couldn't even be sure of getting "CReality Quality" when you buy a CR-10, why the hell shouldn't I get the clone I can buy for half the price with my BG affiliate points?  :-//

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 24, 2020, 06:32:00 pm
I love how Creality has wired the CR10 V2 up.

Was looking at changing my main board and wondered what the X+ and Z+ was for.

I traced them to the pins in the plug and then to the connectors on the CR10 V2


The positive of both X+ and Z+ are the same, likewise the grounds of them are the same.

That being the case, the sensible thing to do would be wire up the 24pin socket so that Z+ goes to the BLTouch and X+ to the filament runnout.

But that would be too easy, instead they send the signal from the Z+ to the BLTouch along with the positive and ground from the Y+
Likewise they send the signal; from the Y+ to the filament runout along with the positive and ground from the X+

Meaning if either one are unplugged from the main board, neither work  (excuse my not to scale drawings)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 24, 2020, 09:18:22 pm
If that's a full size SDCard, next thing you must buy is a Toshiba FlashAir, and install this: https://github.com/luc-github/Flashair-FM (https://github.com/luc-github/Flashair-FM)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q04I1klbuo0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q04I1klbuo0)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 26, 2020, 06:14:33 pm
From the Too Much Free Time Dept:

[attachimg=1]

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: ANTALIFE on July 27, 2020, 01:00:17 am
Here is some useful info for Prusa i3 MK3S + MMU2S users, or others who do multi-material prints on a single hotend system
https://www.antalife.com/2020/07/project-just-how-multi-material-is.html


After doing heaps of PLA/PETG test on my MMU2S my conclusion is that the "Multi-Material Upgrade" should really be called the "Multi-Colour Upgrade", as printing with different materials requires crazy amounts of purging (>2500mm³) between swaps
Hence, if you want true multi-material capability then you need a printer with at least two separate hotends, otherwise if you are printing in single material then the MMU2S is perfect
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 27, 2020, 06:34:15 am
https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin/releases/tag/2.0.6 (https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin/releases/tag/2.0.6)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 27, 2020, 02:10:48 pm
Oh great... new & improved Misery2.x.x firmware for end-users to debug.  :-DD

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 27, 2020, 08:59:18 pm
I have to say, when I spent 50 odd days with my ender 3 pro, I was getting a little disillusioned, thinking I was on a road to nowhere.

Since returning it and getting the CR10  v2, it has never needed levelling past the first time.   Even when I tilted it, placed it on it's side etc to trace the wiring, when I put it back upright and did a level test, nothing needed adjusting it was all perfectly in place.   

I read facebook posts of people having problem after problem, others say they've never had problems, I''m convinced there's simply some badly made printers out there.

I've had my first failure on my CR10 v2 today, a print taking up all 300mm of the bed, the corners lifted.  Bed was only 50 degrees, I suspect the heat doesn't get to the edges so hopefully increasing bed temp will fix it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 28, 2020, 03:20:44 am
I have to say, when I spent 50 odd days with my ender 3 pro, I was getting a little disillusioned, thinking I was on a road to nowhere.

Since returning it and getting the CR10  v2, it has never needed levelling past the first time.   Even when I tilted it, placed it on it's side etc to trace the wiring, when I put it back upright and did a level test, nothing needed adjusting it was all perfectly in place.   

I read facebook posts of people having problem after problem, others say they've never had problems, I''m convinced there's simply some badly made printers out there.

I've had my first failure on my CR10 v2 today, a print taking up all 300mm of the bed, the corners lifted.  Bed was only 50 degrees, I suspect the heat doesn't get to the edges so hopefully increasing bed temp will fix it.

Had similar problems with the Tornado; waiting an extra 15 minutes after bed came up to temp for it to equalize across the entire surface (confirmed it took this long with infra-thermometer) and added ~2-3mm brim around the print fixed it. You can also set it so the brim stops just before the print; just set it one line's worth. With the squish, this makes it hair thin so it still holds, but peels off the part easier.

Don't preheat your hotend; let the gcode handle that.

I also have no compunctions about using hairspray if a large print fails and tries to fuck with my head; IMO, if it works, it's not a crutch. :-+

mnem
*toddles off to ded*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on July 28, 2020, 05:53:12 pm
Grabbed the new Marlin version 2.0.6. Transferring my config settings into the new config files.

Didn't compile right yet. Wish me luck ...

 :-DD

[attachimg=1]

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on July 28, 2020, 09:10:34 pm
I have to say, when I spent 50 odd days with my ender 3 pro, I was getting a little disillusioned, thinking I was on a road to nowhere.

Since returning it and getting the CR10  v2, it has never needed levelling past the first time.   Even when I tilted it, placed it on it's side etc to trace the wiring, when I put it back upright and did a level test, nothing needed adjusting it was all perfectly in place.   

I read facebook posts of people having problem after problem, others say they've never had problems, I''m convinced there's simply some badly made printers out there.

I've had my first failure on my CR10 v2 today, a print taking up all 300mm of the bed, the corners lifted.  Bed was only 50 degrees, I suspect the heat doesn't get to the edges so hopefully increasing bed temp will fix it.

Had similar problems with the Tornado; waiting an extra 15 minutes after bed came up to temp for it to equalize across the entire surface (confirmed it took this long with infra-thermometer) and added ~2-3mm brim around the print fixed it. You can also set it so the brim stops just before the print; just set it one line's worth. With the squish, this makes it hair thin so it still holds, but peels off the part easier.

Don't preheat your hotend; let the gcode handle that.

I also have no compunctions about using hairspray if a large print fails and tries to fuck with my head; IMO, if it works, it's not a crutch. :-+

mnem
*toddles off to ded*

Can’t put brim around it as it’s the width of the bed.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 28, 2020, 09:13:56 pm
Hairspray and turn the bed temp up a bit?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on July 29, 2020, 12:51:24 am
Well I finally beat it (2.0.6) into submission. It finally compiled and left me a .bin file that worked. Eh - it did have a few yellow accentuated grumblings of a few items it reported that didn't sit well with the compiler, but apparently they didn't matter much.  :-DD

It's printing out one of the N scale containers for my model railroad now - looks perfectly fine.  :box:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 29, 2020, 03:25:31 am
Hairspray and turn the bed temp up a bit?

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1035524;image)

Yup... and/or mod the size of the build plate in your slicer to get every mm your printer is capable of. I also had 2 iterations of the Tornado in Cura; one with a custom bed size that went from front to back BETWEEN the 4 protruding screws to get me 362mm (every bit of travel I could squeak out of my Y-rail) out of the Y-axis.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on July 29, 2020, 11:36:42 am
I had the Creality glass bed, and I didn't think it was that great as far as parts sticking to it. Last year I wanted to get a different glass bed to try. I ordered one like this -

Mystery Glass bed (https://www.ebay.com/itm/235X235mm-Glass-Print-Bed-3D-Printer-Plate-For-Ender-3-Ender-5-Ender-3-Pro/333632328201?epid=19035911574&hash=item4dae095209:g:rsoAAOSwOUNe8HLw)

NOTE: At least those are the same set of pictures as the one I bought. I can't say for sure because there is no brand name on it or on the box it came in. It's a mystery maker.

But, what I wanted to say was, it's performance is FAR better than the Creality bed as far as parts sticking. I've looked at the surfaces of the two and they are not the same prepared surface. The Creality bed is "shiny" and this one isn't. I can't say more than that because I have no objective way to compare them other than printing on them.

But as I said - the unlabelled bed has been working extremely well for me for a year - no parts sticking issues.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on July 29, 2020, 12:40:26 pm
I'm with mnemonth on this.  I have a Creality Glass bed and adhesion varies widely with material and part geometry.  A single bed temperature and rim/raft setting doesn't work for all parts.  In some cases I get spagetti, in others I have to use a hammer and chisel to remove the parts.  You just have to dial in what that part wants.  The most difficult ones I have dealt with are tall, slender parts.  Think lamp post or screwdriver.  Of course I could lay them on their side and print with support, but I actually want the best surface finish possible.  A large raft works here.

Hair spray and glue stick are useful tools in this journey.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 29, 2020, 03:52:55 pm
I had the Creality glass bed, and I didn't think it was that great as far as parts sticking to it. Last year I wanted to get a different glass bed to try. I ordered one like this -

Mystery Glass bed (https://www.ebay.com/itm/235X235mm-Glass-Print-Bed-3D-Printer-Plate-For-Ender-3-Ender-5-Ender-3-Pro/333632328201?epid=19035911574&hash=item4dae095209:g:rsoAAOSwOUNe8HLw)

NOTE: At least those are the same set of pictures as the one I bought. I can't say for sure because there is no brand name on it or on the box it came in. It's a mystery maker.

But, what I wanted to say was, it's performance is FAR better than the Creality bed as far as parts sticking. I've looked at the surfaces of the two and they are not the same prepared surface. The Creality bed is "shiny" and this one isn't. I can't say more than that because I have no objective way to compare them other than printing on them.

But as I said - the unlabelled bed has been working extremely well for me for a year - no parts sticking issues.

I have the same one, I think on my Diggro Alpha right now; ordered from a Canadian CReality-Authorized reseller. It has bee pretty craptacular in general; the surface is wavy AS FUCK. There are multiple areas where it goes from baseline to 0.2-0.3 mm proud (maybe more; I'm just guessing based on first-layer squish) over a travel of 40-60mm. I thought I was getting genuine UltraBase when I bought it; they had oodles of UB listings and this was THE ONE SINGLE generic on the site. |O

What I don't get is WHY... even HOW they manage such shitty QC on these. I have a packet of 12" mirror tiles from Home Despot on my Tornado that literally cost a buck apiece... not only do they manage to be ~0.1mm or less true across the entire surface, they manage that across every tile in the box. I literally do not have to relevel even after changing the tile 3 or 4 times.

mnem
 :wtf:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 29, 2020, 04:03:16 pm
Well I finally beat it (2.0.6) into submission. It finally compiled and left me a .bin file that worked. Eh - it did have a few yellow accentuated grumblings of a few items it reported that didn't sit well with the compiler, but apparently they didn't matter much.  :-DD

It's printing out one of the N scale containers for my model railroad now - looks perfectly fine.  :box:

Thanks for taking one for the team on this one, x.  :-DD

I think I'll just linger on known-working builds of 1.9.x until my CR6-SE arrives.  :scared:

On that front... CREALITY slipped up and actually posted LIVE a listing on their AliEx store for the CR6-SE, showing a delivery date with their usual 10-20 days. Shockingly, their Facebork page lit up like Global Thermonuclear War... again.  ::)

mnem
These motherfuckers just do not even THINK like we do... :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Flump on July 29, 2020, 04:11:54 pm
I have had my ender3 for a couple of years and tried many different build surfaces and the one I have had most success with is a sheet of smooth borosilicate glass
with a sheet of PEI stuck to the top of it, using this combination I have never had a first layer fail to stick and I have printed over 200 face shield headbands on it and countless of other random prints.
Every now and then I lightly scrub the surface over with a light to medium sanding block and wipe it down with IPA regularly.

Getting prints off was troublesome at first because they stick so well but I know the knack to it now and can get them off instantly as soon as
it finishes printing every time with no drama or damage to print or bed.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 29, 2020, 04:41:33 pm
I use the shiny glass that came with it, and hairspray. Perfect!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on July 29, 2020, 05:14:36 pm
Well I finally beat it (2.0.6) into submission. It finally compiled and left me a .bin file that worked. Eh - it did have a few yellow accentuated grumblings of a few items it reported that didn't sit well with the compiler, but apparently they didn't matter much.  :-DD

It's printing out one of the N scale containers for my model railroad now - looks perfectly fine.  :box:

Thanks for taking one for the team on this one, x.  :-DD

I think I'll just linger on known-working builds of 1.9.x until my CR6-SE arrives.  :scared:

But you're missing so much fun! Think of the sense of accomplishment you will have if when you succeed!  :-+

As far as the build surface, so many people have had so many different experiences with the optional solutions. Seems an area ripe for research for a unified "this is the Final Solution" build plate surface. :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 29, 2020, 05:16:16 pm
Seems an area ripe for research for a unified "this is the Final Solution" build plate surface. :-//

A sheet of spring steel with some good PEI on it. Works for all commoner materials. ;)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 29, 2020, 05:50:44 pm
Yeah; as long as you have mesh leveling. Which just trades bottom surface imperfections for those generated by constantly moving the Y-axis, and adds Ifni-knows-how-much wear & tear on rollers & cheap-ass leadscrews already known to be pretty loosey-goosey. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=971254;image)

mnem
I just can't WAIT till mine gets here!!!  >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 29, 2020, 05:53:16 pm
Yeah; as long as you have mesh leveling. Which just trades bottom surface imperfections for those generated by constantly moving the Y-axis, and adds Ifni-knows-how-much wear & tear on rollers & cheap-ass leadscrews already known to be pretty loosey-goosey. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=971254;image)

mnem
I just can't WAIT till mine gets here!!!  >:D

Or, y'know, you could put it on a decently flat bed to begin with ;)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GeorgeOfTheJungle on July 29, 2020, 06:08:50 pm
This is the shape of one of my beds:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 30, 2020, 04:11:41 am
Yeah; as long as you have mesh leveling. Which just trades bottom surface imperfections for those generated by constantly moving the Y-axis, and adds Ifni-knows-how-much wear & tear on rollers & cheap-ass leadscrews already known to be pretty loosey-goosey. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=971254;image)

mnem
I just can't WAIT till mine gets here!!!  >:D

Or, y'know, you could put it on a decently flat bed to begin with ;)

Which is not reasonable to expect from a flex build plate. If there's one thing hardened ferrous metal loves to do, it's move when heat is applied.

mnem
Especially if there's a chance of whacking you in the face.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on July 30, 2020, 04:38:48 am
Or, y'know, you could put it on a decently flat bed to begin with ;)

Which is not reasonable to expect from a flex build plate. If there's one thing hardened ferrous metal loves to do, it's move when heat is applied.

You don't expect it from the flex plate - you expect it from the surface full of high power magnets on which you stick the plate. It works.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 30, 2020, 11:46:59 am
I find that highly suspect. :-DD   So many opportunities for random crap to find its way between layers; adding magnets just enhances the attraction to crud. Also, most magnetic materials deteriorate with exposure to heat. Seems like an awful lot of caveats just to not have to wait 5-10 minutes.

I've never had problems getting stuff off of plain glass; all I ever had to do was wait for it to cool and the part usually just pops off.  :-// Guess I just don't care, as I'm not doing it for profit.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on August 03, 2020, 06:12:05 pm
I still haven't had to level the bed at all since my last post :)  At this rate, I think I'll leave my BLTouch off for now.

Got some ERYONE black PLA off of Amazon, I read mixed reviews but mainly good.  I've had more problems getting the settings right for this than for the cheap no name  stuff I was using.

Not going to attempt to put photos in line, will put them all at the end.

There's two temp towers.  First with combing on, second with combing off, second was much much better.  The PLA says it's temp range is 200 to 220, but the temp tower was best at about 185.

Then I tried playing with retraction settings. Printed a load of 5 min tests at various speeds and length, not only did they all string, they also pulled away at the top quite a bit.  I read an article somewhere on the net where someone had similar problems and they put 0.2mm in both the  "outer wall wipe distance" and the  "Infill Wipe distance". This improved things considerably , I've attached two string tests, one with wipe, one with the same retraction settings but without wipe.

I still had to increase travel speed from 150 to 200 to get reasonable results.

I then did another ton of tests, the best I could find was Retraction distance 5, Retraction speed 40, travel speed 200 (and the 0.2mm on the wipes).  OK not too much hassle to do, but surely I must be doing this the hard way? Surely most people don't end up printing about 50 string tests  :-DD

Going back to my previous post, I've attached a bed temp photo.  With the bed at 60, it's 60 right until the last few mm at the back where it drops to 57c.  However at the front, it drops right down to 32 degrees at the edge and the middle of the E on the word Creality is only 37
 (sorry the 37 doesn't show up very well in red in the photo).  The left hand edge of the bed is almost as bad as the front while the right hand edge is similar to the back.   


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 04, 2020, 04:37:46 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXSqZ68UdsE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GXSqZ68UdsE)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yIebnVjADM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yIebnVjADM)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QRb54zVPfQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QRb54zVPfQ)

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on August 04, 2020, 05:00:29 pm
YouTube tutorials?

But I thought ...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on August 04, 2020, 06:11:47 pm
Trouble with YouTube 3D printer tutorials and Facebook is that few agree with one another.  I originally turned on the combing as suggested by one site, yet on Facebook I was advised to turn it off (which did help for this roll of filament).

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on August 04, 2020, 07:06:19 pm
YouTube tutorials?  But I thought ...
I ain't catching that flak twice!  :-[

But I am still building my own enclosed quiet printer with air filtration.  Right now, I'm struggling whether to use two 8mm rods, or two 2020 alu profiles, for the y-axis (bed).  I like the rods, because then I can use Igus polymer bushes (in LM8UU carriers) for lower noise, but am not sure how precise the alignment (parallelism) has to be.  The 2020 profile can be shimmed; the round optical shafts not so much.  The key supports will be heavy but rigid, out of 1.5mm-2mm wall thickness steel square tubing.

The obvious solution would be to machine a square holder plate (like an SHF08, but square) with set screws on all four sides of the shaft, for one end of one shaft – much like a four-jaw chuck –, but I don't have a machine shop.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on August 04, 2020, 07:11:25 pm
I ain't catching that flak twice!  :-[

LOL.

Trouble with YouTube 3D printer tutorials and Facebook is that few agree with one another.  I originally turned on the combing as suggested by one site, yet on Facebook I was advised to turn it off (which did help for this roll of filament).

LOL yea that does seem to happen.  :-DD

Been playing with some bed leveling lately. Seems a little persnickety for some reason - initial lines not sticking here and there.

I played with the "Bed Z" adjustment in the bed leveling menu for a while. I swear I had tried it at some point in the past but it didn't seem to do anything. Maybe the latest firmware fixed it.

You can add +z.zzz for a larger gap and -z.zzz for smaller gap. In other words it moves the whole mesh Zero reference up or down. It took up just enough Z with -0.020 that the prints started squishing just like I wanted on the first layer. Check it out if you ever need it.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 04, 2020, 11:39:56 pm
In my defense... I picked those vids because they were only people I knew to know WFT they're doing, and because they specifically target CReality.

Otherwise, still good as a warmup for the inevitable troubleshooting snipe hunt.  :-DD

mnem
 :bullshit:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on August 05, 2020, 03:59:59 pm
They were useful, I've as good as eliminated my stringing now.

Chep found slowing retraction speed to 25 helped a lot, I found it made things worse.

I downloaded Makers Muse Ender 3 cura profile and experimented with that.  I originally had combing set to "all",  and disabling it helped a lot. He uses combing, so I tried it set to "within infill"

This worked very well. As good as no stringing (what is there can be blown off).

Still having prints lifting from the bed (see by the word Micro), I cleaned with soapy water (washing up liquid) followed by IPA first.  I can understand my large print lifting at the corners as the edge of the bed wasn't up to temp, but this was in the middle of the bed.  Going to try with my cheapo filament as this has never lifted.   I will turn the bed over and try hairspray if I can't fix this, just strange how it worked perfectly until this new filament.

The other thing I'm having is the writing on the top is unreadable.  At this rate I'll use the entire roll doing tests  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on August 06, 2020, 11:23:37 am
Doh, got a living room/ dining room all in one, labs in dining room.

The ceiling fan in the living room being on full is what’s causing the lifting. Put a temporary shield around printer.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 06, 2020, 04:55:57 pm
Oooh... good sleuthing. A great example of the need to step back & look at the big picture every once in a while.  :-+

mnem
 :clap:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 08, 2020, 09:40:26 pm
Boring mundane print #88...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1043598;image)

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3180278/#msg3180278

Working on a fixer upper HP 54645A scope with some collision damage; one of the casualties was a finger clip that holds this corner of the board down.

As board flex is excessive, I printed up a little 10mm2 wedge and glued it in as a replacement.

mnem
Fun was had by all.   >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 10, 2020, 03:18:05 am
Just checked in on the CR-6SE KickStarter.

The shipping BS just gets deeper and more convoluted. Now they're telling us all the people who JUST ordered a printer will go out first. They keep crowing about how "Everybody in the US has shipped" and "Everybody in the UK has shipped". UNLESS you had add-ons. So... the guys who spent first and spent most... get theirs absolutely the last.  :palm:

If it weren't for the fact I'm moving right now and have no idea where I am going to be at the end of the month... I'd be REALLY annoyed by now.

Oh, and there are resellers in the Philippines who are already selling theirs retail.  ::)

mnem
"Since I gave up all hope; life is so much better. I used to be constantly disgusted; now I'm meremy amused."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on August 10, 2020, 03:30:15 am
Just checked in on the CR-6SE KickStarter.

The shipping BS just gets deeper and more convoluted. Now they're telling us all the people who JUST ordered a printer will go out first. They keep crowing about how "Everybody in the US has shipped" and "Everybody in the UK has shipped". UNLESS you had add-ons. So... the guys who spent first and spent most... get theirs absolutely the last.  :palm:

If it weren't for the fact I'm moving right now and have no idea where I am going to be at the end of the month... I'd be REALLY annoyed by now.

Oh, and there are resellers in the Philippines who are already selling theirs retail.  ::)

mnem
"Since I gave up all hope; life is so much better. I used to be constantly disgusted; now I'm meremy amused."
They already got your money. You're not going anywhere. That's one of the downsides of these Kickstarter type deals. We've even seen companies selling to new customers in a desperate bid to stay afloat while Kickstarter orders were pushed further and further into the future.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on August 10, 2020, 07:33:57 pm
My turn now,

Have mercy I am new to this stuff, two questions:

1) How to upgrade the extruder with an aluminum Mk8 Extruder
2) The previous owner cut the filament right before the extruder, how can I put the new PLA filament in?

Ender-5 terrible neewbie, here.

Thanks for your kind help, see pics at the end.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 10, 2020, 09:30:38 pm
I’ll usually do a cold pull when changing colors; tho not the long drawn out affair you’ll see if you look for the process online. This will work here too...

Get yourself a pair of pliers; any with flat-ish or finely serrated jaws that can grip the filament without cutting it.

Start a hotend preheat cycle; right around 200 degrees for PLA.  SOME PLA should ooze out the end if you push in on the end of filament with the pliers. This is good.

Turn off the preheat and watch the thermometer. As it drops to 120 or so, get ready with the pliers and squeeze the lever on the extruder with your other hand; hold it so the extruder’s grip on the filament is released.

As the temp drops past 90 degrees, grab the filament with the pliers and pull; you should feel a pop as the filament releases from the inside of the nozzle.


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1044530;image)

When you pull the filament out, you should see a conical blob at the end like this pic, though hopefully not full of burnt filament.

Now you can easily do all your maintenance and not have to worry about color contamination when you load new filament.  :-+

I know this sounds like a lot of assache, but most of the assache is in the reading; once you get used to doing it, takes no time at all.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on August 11, 2020, 01:27:29 am
Printing some very small shrouds for 1206 LED. This is for a lighting project for my model RR. Wasn't easy to get these done but I persisted and bent the machine to my will.

 :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: MarkF on August 11, 2020, 03:44:00 pm
Printing some very small shrouds for 1206 LED. This is for a lighting project for my model RR. Wasn't easy to get these done but I persisted and bent the machine to my will.

 :-DD

HO model railroad here.
Are those for headlights?  What do you do if there is more than one headlight?  Multiple LEDs?
It would be nice to see a picture of them being used.
I want to re-light some old locomotives of mine.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 11, 2020, 04:56:37 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzyfcys1aLM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zzyfcys1aLM)

 :-DD

mnem
Please excuse the TinkerDwagon; moving has taken its toll and his associations have become rather loose of late...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on August 11, 2020, 06:01:59 pm
HO model railroad here.
Are those for headlights?  What do you do if there is more than one headlight?  Multiple LEDs?
It would be nice to see a picture of them being used.
I want to re-light some old locomotives of mine.

Hello Mark,

No, these are to become area lighting on tall posts for an intermodal area I'm working on. I'm N scale so these have to be very small. I'm scratch-building them because there is nothing commercially made that suits my needs, and even if there was it would outrageously priced.

I'm going to have two at the top of each post, aimed into the work area. I'll probably make three or four of these. Might even keep making a few more for another area if they look good. I haven't decided on the final mounting design but I have a good idea to work on involving brass tubing.

I'll post more pics later if this works out.

Failure is not an option.  :-DD

P.S. - Man I'm getting this many times when I try to preview my post -

502 Bad Gateway
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: MarkF on August 12, 2020, 12:53:58 am
The 1206 size LEDs are pretty big for N scale. 
The 0805 size might be a better choice and still hand solderable.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on August 12, 2020, 01:34:59 am
The 1206 size LEDs are pretty big for N scale. 
The 0805 size might be a better choice and still hand solderable.

It's actually not that big considering I'm making big area lamps. They have some actual large lamps out by our freeway that they recently replaced with LED lamps and they are pretty large. If you compare the 1206 size to an N scale person they are a pretty realistic size.

In the picture is a 0603 and a 1206 by an N scale person. I took that comparison picture because I was thinking of the same thing you were!  ;)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on August 13, 2020, 11:35:48 am
Pic of a clogged nozzle that was on my SD card. Ended up in the trash I think (the nozzle not the card).

That is all.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 13, 2020, 04:35:06 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1046518;image)

mnem
 ::)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 15, 2020, 02:41:33 am
The power of FDM: Boring Mundane Everyday Print #89...


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1047476;image)     

Here I have a project I dreamed up in my sleep (literally; woke up this AM with the whole project in my head); leveraging Amazon same-day delivery, this is a useful article that went from idea to parts to completed project in less than 12 hours. Could have been 3-4 hours if I'd had some spade connectors on hand. ;)


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1047318;image)   

Picked this bookshelf system up yesterday as curb-score; finished fixing it up, but want to make it iPod-Dock-Ready for my wife to use at her new music teacher job. AUX in is easy enough with just a cheap $4 pigtail; but iPud power can be a bit of a PITA, and the powercube requires an extra outlet that is almost never available. Solution: Install a iPower cube inside the back panel of the stereo.


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1047484;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1047488;image)
This needs a bracket; a perfect application for 3DP. Took me ~30 minutes to scrap-sketch the dimensions and whip this out in Fusion.


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1047480;image)   

After that, less than 2 hours hour printing while I did other things and BOOM! Ready for trial-fitting. Needs connectors; shop them over breakfast. Available same-day with a few other things for ~$US20 same-day. Get the cutout laid out and holes drilled; parts delivered at ~6PM.


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1047492;image)

Wiring was a cinch, and because it's a Apple powercube it plays nice with the iPod, and the iPod plays beautifully. STL is here. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1047510)



(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1047496;image)

mnem
*toddles off to ded*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 20, 2020, 03:04:34 pm
Latest CR6-SE Update:

CReality has finally started shipping orders with add-ons. If they follow previous shipping schemes, mine will literally be in the very last batch they ship, even though I was one of the first to order. People will be able to buy and receive retail before I get mine.  :palm:

If not for the fact I don't actually have an address for them to ship it to yet, I'd be totally pissed. ::)

mnem
"Since I gave up all hope, I'm much better off. I used to be constantly disgusted, now I'm merely amused."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on August 23, 2020, 12:21:29 pm
It would be nice to see a picture of them being used.

Since you asked, here's a picture of the finished LED lights (in that pic they had yet to be painted). Also a pic of them in installed on my intermodal area.

Covering the 3D printing topic, you can see some 3D printed 45 ft. Hi Cube containers that I airbrushed with some real-world logos such as MOL, COSCO, "K" Line, and CN. I also made the stencils for the logos on my 3D printer. Some of the other containers are folded paper models.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 23, 2020, 01:58:51 pm
I like that the Porsche (I think) is parked so it takes up two spaces for that all-important "safety zone"... :-DD

mnem
How considerate; keeps all the body parts nice & shiny for the guys at the chop shop. >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: MarkF on August 23, 2020, 07:46:09 pm
It would be nice to see a picture of them being used.

Since you asked, here's a picture of the finished LED lights (in that pic they had yet to be painted). Also a pic of them in installed on my intermodal area.

Covering the 3D printing topic, you can see some 3D printed 45 ft. Hi Cube containers that I airbrushed with some real-world logos such as MOL, COSCO, "K" Line, and CN. I also made the stencils for the logos on my 3D printer. Some of the other containers are folded paper models.

Very nice.
Yes, I was wondering if you printed the containers too.  Good job.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on August 26, 2020, 10:57:56 am
Been using original firmware since getting CR10 v2, today I decided to update.

All went well except for one thing.

My Esteps were set to the default 93 after updating.  I did the usual test, marked 120mm  and extruded 100mm.  That left 46mm rather than 20mm.

OK, so I changed the Esteps to 125.7, stored it, powered down and up the printer to check it still has the new Esteps, it has.

Repeated the test, it's still extruding exactly the same amount as when the Esteps was set at 93, still leaving me with exactly 46mm.

Weird.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 26, 2020, 11:08:46 am
Oh FFS... CReality hasn't even shipped half the KS CR6SE orders, and now they announce they're offering it on "other platforms".  :palm:

Oh... and all of us who ordered "extras"... that they claimed we had to wait because of those extra bits... well our "extras" will be shipped later.  ::) Who knows how much later.  So no reason they couldn't have shipped our 3DP with all the other units.   |O

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit/posts/2935061 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit/posts/2935061)

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on August 26, 2020, 11:16:20 am
Oh FFS... CReality hasn't even shipped half the KS CR6SE orders, and now they announce they're offering it on "other platforms".  :palm:

Oh... and all of us who ordered "extras"... that they claimed we had to wait because of those extra bits... well our "extras" will be shipped later.  ::) Who knows how much later.  So no reason they couldn't have shipped our 3DP with all the other units.   |O

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit/posts/2935061 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit/posts/2935061)

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image)

I feel for you :(
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on August 26, 2020, 11:26:16 am
Been using original firmware since getting CR10 v2, today I decided to update.

All went well except for one thing.

My Esteps were set to the default 93 after updating.  I did the usual test, marked 120mm  and extruded 100mm.  That left 46mm rather than 20mm.

OK, so I changed the Esteps to 125.7, stored it, powered down and up the printer to check it still has the new Esteps, it has.

Repeated the test, it's still extruding exactly the same amount as when the Esteps was set at 93, still leaving me with exactly 46mm.

Weird.

When I got the printer, I calibrated Esteps using the printer (as couldn't get it to connect to octoprint).  The Esteps I ended up with were 97.89 and when I rechecked it was perfect, leaving exactly 20mm spare.

After upgrading firmware to V2, I can now connect to octoprint  (I've also found another cable so that could be it).  I've just retried tests using Octoprint,  I reset it to 93, fed trough 100 mm and it left 25mm which works out to 97.89.

I enter my new figure via Octoprint and save it, I then rerun the test via Octoprint and sure enough spot on, exactly 20mm left.


So I go to the printer, repeat the test on there telling it to move axis extruder 100mm, this time it leaves 60mm.

Am I missing something here, it appears that sending Gcode feeds correctly but using the move axis doesn't, yet this is how I calibrated Esteps when I originally got the printer?

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: JackJones on August 26, 2020, 11:54:57 am
I'd guess the manual move is extruding faster than the one sent via USB. That doesn't give the filament as much time to melt so it's harder to push through, thus giving more under extrusion. That's why all the calibration guides tell you to extrude slowly, it's closer to real printing conditions than a faster manual move.

I looked at the configuration_adv.h for Marlin, and for me the MANUAL_FEEDRATE parameter is set at 120.

I'm guessing that's 120mm/min, when the usual calibration command G1 E100 F100 is 100mm/m. Not sure if that's enough of a difference to explain it, but something to look out for.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: MarkF on August 26, 2020, 12:32:10 pm
If you look in version 1.1.9.1, the MANUAL_FEEDRATE is 60.
In version 2.0.6, they doubled the rate to 120.

A recompile back to 60 might be worth a try??
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 26, 2020, 12:43:45 pm
Oh FFS... CReality hasn't even shipped half the KS CR6SE orders, and now they announce they're offering it on "other platforms".  :palm:

Oh... and all of us who ordered "extras"... that they claimed we had to wait because of those extra bits... well our "extras" will be shipped later.  ::) Who knows how much later.  So no reason they couldn't have shipped our 3DP with all the other units.   |O

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit/posts/2935061 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit/posts/2935061)

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image)

I feel for you :(

Thanks.   ;)

Yeah... it's a good thing I didn't sell off my Diggro to help fund this thing... I'd be chewing the carpets by the time it gets to me.  ::)

I'm seeing people in the KS update posting that they ordered retail off AliEx a couple days ago, and DHL has given them tracking which is now showing picked up and progress through the system already, not just "Shipping ticket created" or WTFEever.

mnem
 |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on August 27, 2020, 11:57:56 pm
Last couple of days I’ve had some of my best quality prints ever, none needed supports.

The one I need to print now, needs supports. Simple support, a rectangle coming from build plate and about 3cm high.

But (as is usual with me) something weird is going on.

It prints the skirt fine, then it goes to print the first layer for the support and seems  to get into an infinite first layer loop, going around and around the support, adding more filament until it obviously can’t cope with all the squish on the one layer and it goes all stringy, I can pull off this stringy lump and it happily keeps going. Never starts the actual print.

Using cura, I’ve tried default settings as well as my own. Tried different support types, tried tree supports all doing the same thing, getting stuck in some sort of loop.

Any ideas please?  Skirts are fine, actual prints without supports are fine, first time around with supports is fine, but it just keeps on going around and around, never stopping the first support layer.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 28, 2020, 02:01:36 am
You may have a broken body in the STL that is causing the gcode to go haywire. What do you see when you preview the gcode in Cura? Is it just this model, or will other models slice successfully? What happens if you turn off skirt/brim?

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on August 28, 2020, 02:30:46 am
But (as is usual with me) something weird is going on.

Naw it happens to all of us.

Quote
It prints the skirt fine, then it goes to print the first layer for the support and seems  to get into an infinite first layer loop, going around and around the support, adding more filament until it obviously can’t cope with all the squish on the one layer and it goes all stringy, I can pull off this stringy lump and it happily keeps going. Never starts the actual print.

That's a new on me tho. Can't suggest anything myself but please post the solution if found.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on August 28, 2020, 02:56:08 am
I have had something like this happen when there is a hidden construction aid in the original model.  It can do weird things to the .STL export.  Mine was in modeling a screw thread and the artifact was a helix used in construction of the thread.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on August 28, 2020, 04:25:27 pm
Hmm, well it seems like I'm going mad  :-DD

Was obviously way way too tired to try and slice the STL at 11pm last night.

Maybe, just maybe if I didn't have most of the support options set to 0 (eg support density),   it might have printed properly.

I watched the Cura preview vid print the first layer and sure enough, it was going over the same line time and time again.  I then realised my support settings were weirdly screwed, I altered them to sensible settings, also slowed initial speed down to 15 mm/s, tried the preview again (using tree supports which is what I initially wanted) and this time I could see what it was meant to do.

Attached two first layer pics, one before I changed the support settings, one after, quite a bit of difference :) 

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on August 28, 2020, 09:20:57 pm
Oh FFS... CReality hasn't even shipped half the KS CR6SE orders, and now they announce they're offering it on "other platforms".  :palm:

Oh... and all of us who ordered "extras"... that they claimed we had to wait because of those extra bits... well our "extras" will be shipped later.  ::) Who knows how much later.  So no reason they couldn't have shipped our 3DP with all the other units.   |O

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit/posts/2935061 (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1001939425/creality-cr-6-se-leveling-free-diy-3d-printer-kit/posts/2935061)

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image)

I feel for you :(

Thanks.   ;)

Yeah... it's a good thing I didn't sell off my Diggro to help fund this thing... I'd be chewing the carpets by the time it gets to me.  ::)

I'm seeing people in the KS update posting that they ordered retail off AliEx a couple days ago, and DHL has given them tracking which is now showing picked up and progress through the system already, not just "Shipping ticket created" or WTFEever.

mnem
 |O

You may find being last isn’t a bad thing on this occasion

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on August 28, 2020, 10:04:23 pm
Said fault appears to be that they try and catch fire. Smoke coming from the power switch, welded closed switches, smoke pouring out of the electronics enclosure..

No comment. :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on August 29, 2020, 01:19:19 pm
Updated to Marlin 2.0.6.1 this morning. No issues at all.

It knew it would be beat into submission anyway so it gave no push-back.  :box:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on August 29, 2020, 07:33:24 pm
[...]
I know this sounds like a lot of assache, but most of the assache is in the reading; once you get used to doing it, takes no time at all.

mnem
 :popcorn:

I got it out thanks mnem!

Now next problem, I am upgrading the extrusion mechanism with a red alu one:
[attachimg=3]

here is my problem...
[attachimg=4]

Why there is no brass thread in the red one?

Moreover I have also to upgrade the pipe to teflon capricorn... FYI

EDIT: I can't get the image to work tonight, sorry I give up. Stupid simple machine.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on August 29, 2020, 08:08:55 pm
Bad news,

I dropped the Extruder motor in the process, now if I go to prepare and try to move the extruder manually it does nothing.
Interesting if I try to move the x axes the extruder motor start to buzz

(https://media.tenor.com/images/2b454269146fcddfdae60d3013484f0f/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on August 29, 2020, 08:40:38 pm
I dropped the Extruder motor in the process, now if I go to prepare and try to move the extruder manually it does nothing.
Interesting if I try to move the x axes the extruder motor start to buzz

Quote
Most printers will disable the stepper for the filament unless the hot end is up to temperature. I know mine does this. Was your heated up to temp when you tried this?

Solved the Extruder movement.

BTW is it normal that when the extruder works I see a little jerk in the x axis.
Basically when the extruder stepper works the x one buzz and viceversa.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on August 29, 2020, 08:56:00 pm
Why there is no brass thread in the red one?

A possible explanation:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61tQz%2BZdcCL._SL1000_.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on August 29, 2020, 09:13:49 pm
Man Zucca - that design sucks! That black plastic insert is gonna move back and forth every time the thing retracts and extrudes. I'd try to glue it in if they did away with the threaded brass. Cheap bastards.

 :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on August 29, 2020, 10:12:04 pm
No longer needed:

Quote
UPGRADE: For the Creality upgraded version, small pneumatic connector is no longer needed. Recommended to cut the teflon tube before install it. Perfect replacement for Creality 3D Printers Ender 3 / Ender 3 Pro / Ender 5 / CR-10 / CR-10S.

I bought it from creality itself....
The new ball bearing has more friction than the old one.  ???

Cheap ass bastards.

EDIT:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 30, 2020, 04:12:25 am
Man Zucca - that design sucks! That black plastic insert is gonna move back and forth every time the thing retracts and extrudes. I'd try to glue it in if they did away with the threaded brass. Cheap bastards.

 :palm:

No, that's why the blue clippity; to lock the thing. However, on my pneu fitting, I found I had to use 2 to lock it because they were thin. Fortunately, I ordered extras when I got my CR10 hotend/trolley plate.

Personally, I still prefer the old method of loosening the pneu fitting, push the tube in all the way til it bottoms out, tighten the pneu fitting to jam it tight. :-+

Yet another reason to avoid the red ones and seek out the silver CReality-branded one. :P

@ HobGoblyn/Monkeh : Yeah, actually I was aware; I just came in here to post about that development. Been a little busy moving. ;)

I plan to replace with a decent name-brand switch; I have oodles in my parts drawer. Somewhere in a box. Somewhere in my storage unit.

mnem
...somewhere in the Great White North.  :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on August 30, 2020, 08:31:51 am
Yet another reason to avoid the red ones and seek out the silver CReality-branded one. :P

This irritates me even more because I did my homework, noticed how many cheap ass clone are on the www and decided to go straight to mothership CReality  :horse:

Anyway thanks Dwagon and xrun,
Only time will tell how bad the new design without the pneu fitting is, I keep you posted.

In the next episode:
I installed the new capricorn pipe, but it is about 11cm longer than the original one, should I cut it?
I ask because I am confused by:
Quote
Recommended to cut the teflon tube before install it.
Does it mean cut just the end so it will fit properly with a clean cut at the end OR to cut to size placing the nozzle to max X and max Y?

Thanks guys...

PS: Next shows in this circus, Silent Board and Glass Bed upgrade

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on August 30, 2020, 11:13:14 am

No, that's why the blue clippity; to lock the thing. However, on my pneu fitting, I found I had to use 2 to lock it because they were thin. Fortunately, I ordered extras when I got my CR10 hotend/trolley plate.

Uh ... do you not think I know what the blue "clippity" is for?  :palm:

I'm talking about the black part it's clipped to. The whole assembly is going to move in and out I would bet money on it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on August 30, 2020, 11:51:51 am
xrun, I bet also one of my balls it will move. The real question is how much and if it will degrade the 3D printing process.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on August 30, 2020, 11:57:19 am
xrun, I bet also one of my balls it will move. The real question is how much and if it will degrade the 3D printing process.

Try it and observe. I just think a plastic part holding with just clips (the BLACK part) isn't going to stand up over thousands of retracts. It isn't going to be as good as a metal threaded insert. I just won't be. However, if and when it starts to loosen, you can try gluing it in (the BLACK clip).

It is what it is, unless you return it, you will have to improve it yourself.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on August 30, 2020, 12:32:24 pm
Try it and observe.
It is what it is, unless you return it, you will have to improve it yourself.

You bet my friend, so far a very DIY experience this ender 5. Maybe the pneu fit was just overkill, I let you know in one year or before.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 30, 2020, 01:25:01 pm
xrun, I bet also one of my balls it will move. The real question is how much and if it will degrade the 3D printing process.

Try it and observe. I just think a plastic part holding with just clips (the BLACK part) isn't going to stand up over thousands of retracts. It isn't going to be as good as a metal threaded insert. I just won't be. However, if and when it starts to loosen, you can try gluing it in (the BLACK clip).

It is what it is, unless you return it, you will have to improve it yourself.

I cannae deny any of whatcher sayin'; Sorry, I didn't mean to sound condescending.  :-[

I'm not sure if I mentioned that stupid integrated collet clip in my diatribe aboot the red ones, and no time to search for it right now, but I DID see that when I bought mine and deliberately avoided it like the plague.

I'm not sure if the intent was to make it cheaper, or if it was to eliminate the common gripe aboot the pneu fitting locking onto the tubing and not letting go when you do the "loosen the pneu fitting, push the tube in all the way til it bottoms out, tighten the pneu fitting to jam it tight" thang. Pretty sure the plastic clip won't do that like the sharp metal fingers in the pneu fitting do.

My point with the blue clippity is that if you put enough of them in there or print one the right thickness to jam the collet clip up tight, it should force the fingers to dig into the tubing adequately to lock it down against normal extrusion head pressure. Not saying I'd expect it to hold up to increased head pressure from a clogged nozzle tho... that would be foolish. How well it holds up, I think, will be directly related to the quality of molding and the material used... I'd probably be willing to give it the benefit of the doubt if it were made of nylon and had some teeth in the inner surface of those fingers. :-//

My current 3DP misery is just trying to get my shipping address updated. I've tried 2 different contact points with KS/PledgeBox (useless as tits on a boar :palm:) and 2 others at CReality... one no response, and one the same exact response I got on my "optical sensor upgrade" eMail, so now I know THAT "confirmation" response was an auto-reply as well.

But I STILL have not successfully changed my shipping address with these lunatics. |O

Z, I can't believe you just said that "It's a few inches too long..."  :-DD

I'd say if it is only that much, don't trim it unless you have problems where it binds up somewhere or have extrusion issues you can't point to any other cause.

That way if you have problems with fittings jamming up, or the end against the nozzle getting old and hard and causing clogs, etc... then you have a little extra to trim on that Cap tubing and don't wind up needing to replace it because it's too short.

mnem
*toddles off to move my ass*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on August 30, 2020, 02:26:55 pm
OK mnem, roger that.

Murphy got me with the extruder, no worries the battle is not over yet. Anyway we are talking about few bucks of stuff.
Just checked the creality website and guess what the red one is no more available...

So far:
Extruder Red Murphy version - DONE
Capricon pipes - DONE (if the dragon says not cut, do not do it)
Silent Board - DONE

attacking the glass bed upgrade now.

Meanwhile TH3D or Marllin FW on the Ender 5?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on August 30, 2020, 03:26:06 pm
More Ender experiences.

If was very difficoult to put the PLA filament inside the extruder and into the capricorn pipe.
Very difficoult.
I had to release the extruder with one hand, with the second hand push up the filament and with the third hand move the PLA with a little screwdriver until it went into the little hole on the top.
Once this was done eh eh now the filament was catching everywhere, into the black thing, into the capricorn pipe start edge... you name it.

I HAD to disconnect the pipe and push up the filament without the pipe... then insert the filament in the disconnected pipe and then reconnect the pipe.

There is so many improvements to be implemented in that extruder in my eyes.

OR I am not seeing the giant pink elephant in the room.  :-//

Learning learning learning
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on August 30, 2020, 04:13:40 pm
Meanwhile TH3D or Marllin FW on the Ender 5?

Here (https://www.reddit.com/r/ender3/comments/axeo02/eli5_marlin_vs_th3d_firmwares/), I go with Marlin!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on August 30, 2020, 04:23:46 pm
Yet another reason to avoid the red ones and seek out the silver CReality-branded one. :P

For the records there is also a red one with a pneu fitting out there.

[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 30, 2020, 05:57:38 pm
Yup, that one looks exactly like the cheapo 3rd-party (I think...?) red one I bought and sent back.

Sounds to me like you may have an alignment problem on the lever. The grooved idle roller and/or the inlet hole on the lever may not be aligning properly with the hole in the base plate where the filament ejects out to the Bowden tube.

Take the base plate off the stepper, reassemble the lever and pivot screw held together by hand with the stepper & pinion out of the way, then eyeball the two holes vs the groove in the idler wheel. If the holes line up but not the idler, figure out where to shim so the groove in the idler wheel aligns. If the hole in the lever doesn't align with the hole in the baseplate, shim it first, then the idler wheel if needed.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976978;image)   https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg3067762/?topicseen#msg3067762

[EDIT] Or maybe the baseplate has a recess where the Bowden tube is supposed to go to seat against like my silver one above, and you didn't get the Cap tubing in that.

Also, the cap tubing has a smaller ID than the cheap stuff (this is a good thing); a lot of the 3DP gurus recommend to cut the filament diagonally so it makes a point to aid in feeding the filament into the Cap tubing. I've never bothered, but maybe I got lucky with extra-good fit once I shimmed everything correctly on my silver extruder.
:-//

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on August 31, 2020, 07:00:06 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=991384;image)   Or, you can look into one of the CNC clone BMG ones: I've drooled over them, but I cannot speak to their quality: https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33013818755.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/33013818755.html)

mnem

Hey mnem, what are they? Two extruders: one for the nozzle and one to pull PLA from the spool?
Confiuseeeed.

EDIT: This is sexy:
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/4000101493689.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/i/4000101493689.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 31, 2020, 12:58:08 pm
It's a clone of the BMG extruder; does the same thing your red one does only is gear-driven and has meshing pinions to drive the filament from both sides instead of one pinion and one idler.

There are two versions; one made to fit on the left side of the X-axis beam and one for the right. It matters so they load the filament from the right direction and so you can operate the lever without major contortionist action.

The reason I linked those is because instead of being glas-filled polymer plastic like the original from BMG, they're nice sexy CNC aluminum... plus about 1/2-1/3 the price.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on August 31, 2020, 03:23:37 pm
Yet another reason to avoid the red ones and seek out the silver CReality-branded one. :P

For the records there is also a red one with a pneu fitting out there.

(Attachment Link)

There's also this one which while it is red  https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07SY745CF/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07SY745CF/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) I ended up replacing my Silver Creality one for it, as it's dual gear.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on August 31, 2020, 03:26:07 pm
Meanwhile TH3D or Marllin FW on the Ender 5?

Here (https://www.reddit.com/r/ender3/comments/axeo02/eli5_marlin_vs_th3d_firmwares/), I go with Marlin!

Hehe, it took me a while to get it right (with a lot of help from this thread), but once I got there, it's easy to modify/update
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on August 31, 2020, 03:44:16 pm
Hmm, well it seems like I'm going mad  :-DD

Was obviously way way too tired to try and slice the STL at 11pm last night.

Maybe, just maybe if I didn't have most of the support options set to 0 (eg support density),   it might have printed properly.

I watched the Cura preview vid print the first layer and sure enough, it was going over the same line time and time again.  I then realised my support settings were weirdly screwed, I altered them to sensible settings, also slowed initial speed down to 15 mm/s, tried the preview again (using tree supports which is what I initially wanted) and this time I could see what it was meant to do.

Attached two first layer pics, one before I changed the support settings, one after, quite a bit of difference :)

Any ideas what causes the pitting in this?  there's no pitting at all in the other 4 parts (that didn't need support), It's on the entire front left hand side until it gets to the top bit where it's just over 2cm wide.  Sorry for the stupid angle of the photo, I would take it again but have sanded it down, so also attached cura pic.  To me it sort of looks like the nozzles been digging into it as the pitting is very even, but I would have thought if the nozzle did that, the damage would be much worse?

Many thanks



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on August 31, 2020, 04:22:22 pm
There are two versions; one made to fit on the left side of the X-axis beam and one for the right. It matters so they load the filament from the right direction and so you can operate the lever without major contortionist action.

Actually it's so you can fit two side by side for dual extrusion.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 31, 2020, 04:25:54 pm
K. The pics I saw showed them left & right sides of the X-axis beam for dual extrusion.  :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on August 31, 2020, 04:38:56 pm
Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what you meant. The mirroring is so you can mount the motor on the desired side or both sides for dual extrusion. They actually make a proper dual extrusion unit, though:
(https://cdn-3d.niceshops.com/upload/image/product/large/default/bondtech-bmg-x2-extruder-1-pc-248845-en.jpg)

Haven't seen a clone of that yet. Alu does make sense if you're going to hang the hotend off it. If the hotend is mounted separately it's wasted mass outside of a heated enclosure.

Quality of gears and bearings is a real question with the clones, however, you can always just put real ones in when (not if) they go bad, and they're certainly better than the stupid design Creality (and everyone else) keeps rehashing.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 31, 2020, 04:49:22 pm
Ooohh... shiny...  :o

No, never saw that before. IIRC, what I saw when I was looking into them was pics of them configured as Bowden extruder and mounted just like the CReality goober-drive on either side of the X-axis beam or both for dual extrusion.  :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 31, 2020, 04:50:17 pm
Yet another reason to avoid the red ones and seek out the silver CReality-branded one. :P

For the records there is also a red one with a pneu fitting out there.

There's also this one which while it is red  https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07SY745CF/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 (https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07SY745CF/ref=ppx_od_dt_b_asin_title_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1) I ended up replacing my Silver Creality one for it, as it's dual gear.

Before we go into all the permutations of the red extruders... I did specify the cheapo red single-pinion extruders in my original rant, as I already had one of the dual-pinion extruders in my parts bin. ;)

Still haven't got it installed; issues with crap hardware that was included on my particular vendor's version of the thing. How can it not be screaming obvious that you don't run a needle bearing directly on screw threads?   :palm:

That, and the single-pinion silver one is working well, and I've already modded it to accept the filament sensor.  :P


mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on August 31, 2020, 04:58:05 pm
Ooohh... shiny...  :o

No, never saw that before. IIRC, what I saw when I was looking into them was pics of them configured as Bowden extruder and mounted just like the CReality goober-drive on either side of the X-axis beam or both for dual extrusion.

Oh, right, well that's another application. They're intended for direct drive as any proper extruder should be.

There's also a (clone) version which isn't geared down which is a good compact option for bowden usage (but yes, plastic, which isn't really important in a remote drive): https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32904209624.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32904209624.html)

The little self-tappers are a bit concerning, I think those hold the filament guides in rather than relying just on the case. And it does use the little plastic collets, but if they're well dimensioned those should hold just fine (that's all you get on top of a real E3D heatsink, for example).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 31, 2020, 06:35:07 pm
I imagine I could just make threads for the pneu fitting with a 1/8" pipe tap. 

I usually prefer CNC when it can be had for appearance, and the fact it usually tolerates more abuse in terms of hand-modding than plastic. I understand that weight is a very important consideration with DD.

Agreed on the quality of parts in the clones; same kind of BS as the dual-pinion one I was just grousing aboot. Anything to save a penny/100.  |O

E3D... mhmmmm... my opinion of their engineering is not nearly as high as theirs, I'm afraid. ;)

mnem
>:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 01, 2020, 09:45:25 pm
FUUU this 3D printing is like fishing, if you don't have 1000 of toys to play with there is no fun.

Just got this (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000074113125.html?spm=a2g0s.9042311.0.0.5ba54c4dqwLu2c)...
I just understood what does it mean the ender5 bed falling plague.

Next:
- Sanguino installed
- generate .hex
- flash Marlin to silent board

try to print something...

then octo raspi...

It's a long way to the top if you wanna rock and roll
(https://thumbs.gfycat.com/WaryAlertImpala-size_restricted.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on September 01, 2020, 11:45:30 pm
Next:
- Sanguino installed
- generate .hex
- flash Marlin to silent board

try to print something...

then octo raspi...

Oh is that all? Shouldn't take you more than a few hours ...  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 02, 2020, 12:47:41 am
I've got a half-dozen of those lying around in storage down in Dumbfuckistan (YES, 2mm pitch) in various lengths from my Tornado & Tarantula daze. Dual-Z mods, yumm.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 02, 2020, 07:04:04 am
Oh is that all? Shouldn't take you more than a few hours ...  :popcorn:

Right now I am comparing the .h config files for ender 5 I find on the www to understand why the are different and what is the best for me.

Dual-Z mods, yumm.

Yesterday I tought to go slow and upgrade to dual z later, today after reading your yumm I bought a second one.  :horse:
oh yes! YES! We love 2mm pitch.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on September 02, 2020, 10:51:38 am
Oh is that all? Shouldn't take you more than a few hours ...  :popcorn:

Right now I am comparing the .h config files for ender 5 I find on the www to understand why the are different and what is the best for me.

What? Analyzing the situation, comparing files, and commenting/uncommenting or changing parameters as required to make your machine operate correctly???

I'm not sure what people are going to think of you from this point forward Zucca.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 02, 2020, 11:06:55 am
I'm not sure what people are going to think of you from this point forward Zucca.  :-DD
For sure we all now know what you think about me.
Hey, I am learning and ready take fishes splaps in my face. No worries, they don't hurt too much.
For example I discovered the 800 vs 400 steps difference in the z axis, between ender 5 and ender 5 pro.
Useful information for me, which convinced me to go for the z axis screw upgrade (which will have 1600 at the end with 2mm pitch)

 :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on September 02, 2020, 11:17:56 am
For sure we all now know what you think about me.
Hey, I am learning and ready take fishes splaps in my face. No worries, they don't hurt too much.
For example I discovered the 800 vs 400 steps difference in the z axis, between ender 5 and ender 5 pro.
Useful information for me, which convinced me to go for the z axis screw upgrade (which will have 1600 at the end with 2mm pitch)

Aw we love you!  :-*

Sometimes the changes they make pop-up a lot of differences like from the configuration.h from 2.0.6 they defined speed like this

// (mm/m) Speed for travel before last distance point

and in 2.0.6.1 all the same sort of comments using mm/m were changed to

//(mm/min) Speed for travel before last distance point

No, it does not affect the compilation (you could leave them unchanged) but it pops up a lot of differences that you end up looking at. I use a plug-in for notepad++ to do the compare - my functioning configuration file against the new file.

They also added a lot of additional comments this time. Other than that the new configuration file just needed top have parameters that I use changed in the new file. It takes a little while to go through it but it ain't too bad.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on September 02, 2020, 04:25:10 pm
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eg1uIalUYAAF_wq?format=jpg&name=medium)

A profound, professional, 3 hour investigation. On the 1th of September.

 :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 02, 2020, 07:11:06 pm
(https://media3.giphy.com/media/xTiTnHXbRoaZ1B1Mo8/200.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on September 03, 2020, 12:51:56 am
So I'm sitting here in the living room with a bourbon & coke, a cat on my lap, and watching a baseball game. All is great.

My print in the other room has finished (printing scale models of shipping crates for my model RR). The camera shows it's done (the models are shifted to the right out of view). I want to print more - but I can't because I have to go in there and remove what is on the bed first.

WANT:

Auto-bed scrape-clean so I don't have to get up!  :scared:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on September 03, 2020, 01:31:20 am
Get a belt printer!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 03, 2020, 02:20:36 am
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo_J57U6DO4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qo_J57U6DO4)

mnem
*not at all tempted*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 03, 2020, 02:30:49 am
A profound, professional, 3 hour investigation. On the 1th of September.   (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eg1uIalUYAAF_wq?format=jpg&name=medium)   :palm:

Yeah, well... one benefit of it taking 6 months to get to me: By the time I have it in my scaly little paws, we'll have discovered all the ways it can burn your house down and I'll have a BOM all ready...   :palm:

mnem
on its way to me right now:(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1058670;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GlennSprigg on September 05, 2020, 02:18:05 pm
Fortunately(!?) or unfortunately, this New World of 3D printing, is escalating RAPIDLY!
It's the old adage of "when should I buy it" etc. They've now been around for a few years, to say the least, but have vastly changed
in regards to the Technology/Type/Speed. Should I buy some relatively cheap (years ago) $1000 unit, now going for say $200 ??

I'm reminded of Trash & Treasure Boot-Sales years ago, where some ill-informed seller wants $500 - $1000 for an old IBM PC, when
it is only worth $10 now, (if that!), just because their system cost them then $3000 or some such rubbish back then!  8)
Not to mention that 'Technology' has changed/improved massively since the 1st advent of such '3D Printers'. Now the push is towards the
Carbon M1/M2 style, where there is NO reels of 'plastic', but a machine 'pulling out' a creation from a viscous liquid bath, with no heating,
being formed from a specialized light projection underneath, (and Oxygen as an extremely thin stripping layer), with incredible resolution!!

Where does it end???  Obviously it doesn't!!! We are a LONG way from the imaginary 'Star Trek' where they order the ships computer to
create a food dish or glass of 'Scotch' in a matter of seconds in a replicator!!  Then again, my Grandfather actually thought that 'Fax' m/s
were a lie, to trick people!!   ;D   We gave up trying to explain how it works!!   :o

Let's face it... what we buy 'today' will be antiquated junk in another 5 to 10 years, so do not think of it as an 'investment'.
However, all of life is like that now, but it is now on an ascentotic curve...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on September 05, 2020, 04:09:27 pm
Fortunately(!?) or unfortunately, this New World of 3D printing, is escalating RAPIDLY!........

True, but if we always wait for the latest and greatest, we would be waiting forever

I play (sort of) piano and synths.   What was groundbreaking in the digital piano world  20, 10 years ago is considered rubbish now. When someone comes onto a piano forum and says they can get this 10 year old digital piano for zyx, people point out that the low end of digital pianos currently out are far superior.  On the flip side, I have bought new and subsequently sold numerous 80's synths that are now worth a fortune.

Same with mobile/cell phones, PC's, Cameras etc etc etc
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 05, 2020, 09:11:40 pm
Yeah, we have people printing details for cakes which used to require some artistic talent with a icing sock...  :o

mnem
But a decent, basic cream cheese icing, once the staple of names like Betty Crocker & Duncan Hines, is now a unicorn... |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on September 05, 2020, 09:15:42 pm
Well ... the wheel still hasn't been improved.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 06, 2020, 01:50:12 am
Well, no my point is the opposite; we now have technology that allows a novice pastry chef to print art that used to be the product of years and years of study and practice under the tutelage of masters... but something as simple as a decent cream cheese icing, which you used to be able to buy at any grocery store, is no longer available and must be made by hand.  :wtf:

The only thing you can buy in the grocer's is a dozen different variants of flavorless chocolate-flavored or evil bland butter creme.

Even real vanilla is a freaking rarity. |O

Everything is just poured into the flavorless sausage grinder of doom and we're supposed to be pleased with our soylent beige frosted soylent yellow cakes as if there never was any such thing as flavor.  :palm:

mnem
 :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Bassman59 on September 06, 2020, 04:59:08 am
Where does it end???  Obviously it doesn't!!! We are a LONG way from the imaginary 'Star Trek' where they order the ships computer to
create a food dish or glass of 'Scotch' in a matter of seconds in a replicator!!

In pretty much every episode of "ST:TNG," Picard asks the replicator for "Tea, Earl Gray, Hot" and a cup or mug or some other container of tea materializes. And he drinks his tea.

What happens to the cup or mug or other container? Do they get recycled? Does the swabbie come through his Ready Room after hours and clean up the mess?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Ed.Kloonk on September 06, 2020, 06:21:32 am
Where does it end???  Obviously it doesn't!!! We are a LONG way from the imaginary 'Star Trek' where they order the ships computer to
create a food dish or glass of 'Scotch' in a matter of seconds in a replicator!!

In pretty much every episode of "ST:TNG," Picard asks the replicator for "Tea, Earl Gray, Hot" and a cup or mug or some other container of tea materializes. And he drinks his tea.

What happens to the cup or mug or other container? Do they get recycled? Does the swabbie come through his Ready Room after hours and clean up the mess?

He throws it out the window.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: MyHeadHz on September 06, 2020, 04:54:41 pm
My printer has an elephant's foot issue with most of my prints and I'm having a heck of a time getting rid of it.  Adjusting the printing speed helped a bit.

The very first layer prints perfectly, but after that everything seems to get too hot and the layers squish for about 10-15 layers.  The printer readout shows a sudden loss of print head temperature (from ~220 down to ~200), so I think it's trying to compensate.  The problem is that there was no actual temperature loss.  Over those 10-15 layers it gradually corrects itself.  Prints with thin walls are minimally affected, but flatter prints or prints with a lot of material on the first few layers are affected the most.

At first I thought it was feedback from the fan coming on too strong, but it happens even with the print cooling fan off or when it is set to a constant speed.  I suspect there is an obvious calibration or other setting that I have fat fingered at some point.  Any ideas?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 06, 2020, 05:25:42 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41vyNWlE-J4 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=41vyNWlE-J4)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlgR3rHg4p8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlgR3rHg4p8)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo42S22BTwg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fo42S22BTwg)

https://all3dp.com/2/elephant-s-foot-3d-printing-problem-easy-fixes/ (https://all3dp.com/2/elephant-s-foot-3d-printing-problem-easy-fixes/)

What's your bed temp? High bed temp was a big contributor to elephant's foot for me.

My first reaction is that you're running way hot (if you're printing PLA); my prints seem much more dimensionally accurate when I print between 195-205° with bed at ~50°, particularly with PLA+.

On my Diggro (E3 clone), I found I could all but eliminate elephant's foot without losing adhesion by preheating the bed to ~60°, not preheating the head, and printing as above. My Cura settings use a 2-4mm brim with a starting point of ~0.2mm or one line width from the print, and allowing any required supports to build on top of said brim if needed. The squish makes contact with the brim but it is just transparent-thin, and it pretty much falls off the print.

HTH!

mnem
As always, YMMV, DQMOT, IME, WTFBBQ? DILLIGAF...? :popcorn:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 06, 2020, 05:29:05 pm
Where does it end???  Obviously it doesn't!!! We are a LONG way from the imaginary 'Star Trek' where they order the ships computer to
create a food dish or glass of 'Scotch' in a matter of seconds in a replicator!!

In pretty much every episode of "ST:TNG," Picard asks the replicator for "Tea, Earl Gray, Hot" and a cup or mug or some other container of tea materializes. And he drinks his tea.

What happens to the cup or mug or other container? Do they get recycled? Does the swabbie come through his Ready Room after hours and clean up the mess?

He throws it out the window.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1061236;image)

I throw mine in the fireplace. >:D   Maybe you can ask the guys at FlashForge; they appear to have a wormhole to the ST universe.   :P

WARNING: Full-Frontal Nerdity Follows:

The transtator (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Transtator), the transformational discovery which is the foundation of almost all Federation technology, operates on the principle that there is no difference between matter and energy; both are simply different states of the same "thing", and all that is "lost" in the conversion between one state and the other is a small amount of energy, mostly that used for the required computation.  :-//

The show has numerous references to "matter reclamation units" or waste extraction systems (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Waste_extraction_system) or similar terms; usually represented as a chute or lidded chamber one placed unwanted materials into. One must assume this is how the matter of used replications was reintroduced into the energy/matter cycle. ???

Reading the above article, evidently the whole concept became a bit of a rabbit-hole story-wise, causing much confusion and debate among hardcore anal/OCD trekkie circles.  |O

TL/DR: Yeah... it's hard to believe this technology uses less energy than a dishwasher, FFS.  :palm:

mnem
Pssst... Replicator (https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Replicator).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 07, 2020, 09:22:23 am
So I finally got to compile the marlin Zuk version, but the stupid Arduino IDE is throwing stupid errors on stupid me.
After 5 min googling about those errors I will switch to VSCode and Platformio, anyway the Arduino IDE is more "TH3D than Marlin" so I will run away.

TO DO is now learn Platformio IDE, should not be hard.

Moreover I want to turn off the beep/buzzer in menu, it is driving me crazy and SWMBO wanted to throw my Ender out of the window yesterday for that.
I can't believe they have not already implemeted this (https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin/pull/18082). I will research and post back, I found a chirp() function which is promising in the last version of Marlin.

Ah, I adjusted the Z screw stop axis and installed the glass bed, any elegant suggestion (no paper clip, thing) on how to keep it in place?

The show must go on.


 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on September 07, 2020, 10:20:12 am
Moreover I want to turn off the beep/buzzer in menu, it is driving me crazy and SWMBO wanted to throw my Ender out of the window yesterday for that.

Oh just wait - it's got a whole lot more to throw at you besides a beeper.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 07, 2020, 03:42:16 pm
Oh yeah... E3 loves to sing while she works.  :-DD

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on September 07, 2020, 03:49:07 pm

Ah, I adjusted the Z screw stop axis and installed the glass bed, any elegant suggestion (no paper clip, thing) on how to keep it in place?

The show must go on.


I use tape.  Scotch Magic here in the US.  Just ordinary office paper mending tape.  It has no stretch so it keeps things down and not moving.  It is easy to remove when necessary.  And has survived bed temps to 60 C.  Ymmv if you run the bed hotter.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 07, 2020, 04:06:56 pm
CR-6SE Misery continues:

After 2 weeks of sending multiple eMails to every customer support address and the KickStarter Support portal for the campaign, which is SUPPOSED to be a direct line to their support queue, I finally found the CReality Support Forum actually not "Error 502, Bad Gateway" and submitted a customer service request there.

Result? "Your post is awaiting moderation."

mnem
 |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 07, 2020, 04:15:15 pm

Ah, I adjusted the Z screw stop axis and installed the glass bed, any elegant suggestion (no paper clip, thing) on how to keep it in place?

The show must go on.


I use tape.  Scotch Magic here in the US.  Just ordinary office paper mending tape.  It has no stretch so it keeps things down and not moving.  It is easy to remove when necessary.  And has survived bed temps to 60 C.  Ymmv if you run the bed hotter.

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000275674667.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000275674667.html)

https://reprapltd.com/shop/frame-clips-swiss-clips/ (https://reprapltd.com/shop/frame-clips-swiss-clips/)

If you Gurrgle swiss clips 3D printer you'll get oodles of hits with lots of different variants.

mnem
 :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 07, 2020, 07:50:02 pm
Code: [Select]
Linking .pio\build\melzi_optimized\firmware.elf
Checking size .pio\build\melzi_optimized\firmware.elf
Advanced Memory Usage is available via "PlatformIO Home > Project Inspect"
RAM:   [===       ]  28.4% (used 4653 bytes from 16384 bytes)
Flash: [==========]  98.5% (used 128118 bytes from 130048 bytes)
=================================================================== [SUCCESS] Took 31.26 seconds ===================================================================

Environment      Status    Duration
---------------  --------  ------------
melzi_optimized  SUCCESS   00:00:31.264
==================================================================== 1 succeeded in 00:00:31.264 ====================================================================

Sweet, with Mesh Bed Leveling active. I had to turn off ADVANCED_PAUSE_FEATURE, NOZZLE PARK PAUSE thing, ARC_SUPPORT.

Now will it flash?

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/S6BLhq4ZOvIdN0WVEQ/200.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 07, 2020, 08:33:59 pm
everything went well, I now have the last Marlin up.

The message "SD Init Fail" probably because there is no SD card inside.
Yes I have no chirp chirp as Menu feedback:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/c18vd217fot3ew5/2020-09-07%2022.22.07.mp4 (https://www.dropbox.com/s/c18vd217fot3ew5/2020-09-07%2022.22.07.mp4)

when I do auto home I got X220 Y220 Z0 on the status screen display, the 220s sometime are blinking. yes I have to RTFM.

Now the bad news....

 :horse: :horse:

Murphy got me again, I pulled away the Laptop with too much joy, the connected USB Cable ripped of the micro USB port on the Ender.

 :horse: :horse:

will fix it, just a PITA! Stupid me.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on September 07, 2020, 11:24:52 pm

Murphy got me again, I pulled away the Laptop with too much joy, the connected USB Cable ripped of the micro USB port on the Ender.

 :horse: :horse:

will fix it, just a PITA! Stupid me.

Treat your 3D printer well and it will return your kindness many times over.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 08, 2020, 02:51:12 am

Murphy got me again, I pulled away the Laptop with too much joy, the connected USB Cable ripped of the micro USB port on the Ender.

 :horse: :horse:

will fix it, just a PITA! Stupid me.

Treat your 3D printer well and it will return your kindness many times over.  :-DD
Except when it's CReality on a KickStarter. Then, "caveat emptor" and "No good deed goes unpunished" appears to be the order of business.

That said, my post in the forum DID actually go up... no response from anyone at CReality tho.

mnem
 :-\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on September 08, 2020, 11:09:53 am
I can't believe you're still waiting mnementh  :(

I spent yesterday fitting the BLtouch to my CR10 V2, all seemed to go well, then I went to do a test print.  The printer went to go to the home position, but the BLtoouch didn't work and it started banging into my glass bed. Luckily I was watching it so turned it off within a couple of seconds.

I was confused, it worked perfectly when setting it up and testing and when I turn the printer on, it goes out and in like it's supposed to.

Then I realised the blue led wasn't on on the BLtouch

To cut a long story short, I discovered it's the creality cable that goes from main board to the socket by the extruder, as shown on this badly recorded vid.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDriPv325Sw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDriPv325Sw)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on September 08, 2020, 05:09:17 pm
Easy fix, the pins in the plug just needed squeezing a bit
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 08, 2020, 08:12:46 pm
Congrats Goblyn, I also have to fix my ripped USB port.

BTW, Let's open the chapter slicer. No way I will pay for Simplify3D.
Now between Slic3r and Cura I can not decide. Any suggestions?

Thanks!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 09, 2020, 01:59:28 am
Well-done Z! I love the smell of angry pixies in the morning!!! :-DD

@HobGoblyn:

Yeah, this is going to balloon big enough to hurt them in the mainstream market. CReality has definitely painted themselves shady AF, and nobody to blame but themselves. With the shite QC and complete lack of vetting on this product, they'll be lucky if it doesn't sour the teat on E3 sales as well...

For maybe a month. Then it'll be business as usual; the bottom line is the bottom line when you can only spend so many dollars, and they cater to the "slightly more money than total bottom-feeders" and the "Finally willing to  gamble a couple-three hunnerd dollars on a entry-level 3DP" crowd. They'll We'll still buy them... warts, bullshit tacos and all, because CReality is still the best-polished turd floating in the China-Direct 3DP sea of shite.  :palm:


I prefer Cura... they seem to have a lot faster response time on updates, and a lot more turnover on new features. Slic3r was way anti-intuitive to me; I found myself constantly asking "Why the FUCK would anyone hide THAT there...?" |O

That said, I haven't been back since I started using Cura; it took a little reading, but Ultimaker's Cura support pages (https://support.ultimaker.com/hc/en-us/sections/360003548339-Ultimaker-Cura) are thorough and very educational. You can literally teach yourself most of the art of 3DP if you just keep reading and printing and rereading until you grok in fullness.  :-+


S3D tho... hands down the best GCode viewer. That is the main reason I keep thinking about plonking down the $$$. It really helps to be able to "see" the GCode before it runs. :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: BroMarduk on September 09, 2020, 01:21:25 pm
Ah, I adjusted the Z screw stop axis and installed the glass bed, any elegant suggestion (no paper clip, thing) on how to keep it in place?

The show must go on.


Try Swiss clips.  https://gulfcoast-robotics.com/products/4-swiss-mounting-clips-for-borosilicate-glass-bed.    Take up very little bed space on the glass.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: BroMarduk on September 09, 2020, 02:02:25 pm
Sitting here with 2 Ulitmakers (3 & 2+ Extended) and an Ender 3 I'm upgrading for a friend and stumbled across this.

https://www.ogadget.com/x/biqu-bx?utm_medium=FB%20Group&utm_source=FB%20Group%20Giveaway&fbclid=IwAR0KITw3tvxIbIi1AkkkPXZ9yOL9MOP2Zmf-34nBaK98jVnlNqOqf75YskA (https://www.ogadget.com/x/biqu-bx?utm_medium=FB%20Group&utm_source=FB%20Group%20Giveaway&fbclid=IwAR0KITw3tvxIbIi1AkkkPXZ9yOL9MOP2Zmf-34nBaK98jVnlNqOqf75YskA)

Has some interesting features for the "pre-release" price of $249.  (Seems its going through Kickstarter, so consider the risk).

Lightweight (219g) direct extruder,
400 MHz mainboard,
250mm x 250mm x 250mm print area (not on web page, but mentioned in FB group.)
Precision, silent steppers,
7" Touch Screen
All metal hot-end
Mean Well (Taiwanese) Power Supply
OctoPrint ready (just add Pi)

The video of the TPU cat that it supposedly printed got my attention (you have to join their FB group (BIQU BX Coming Soon...) to see the video unfortunately but I attached a screen shot (its squishy).

BIQU is the printer brand of Bigtree Tech, who are famous for their inexpensive upgrade boards for the Creality (and other) printers.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Bassman59 on September 09, 2020, 08:55:41 pm

Ah, I adjusted the Z screw stop axis and installed the glass bed, any elegant suggestion (no paper clip, thing) on how to keep it in place?

The show must go on.


I use tape.  Scotch Magic here in the US.  Just ordinary office paper mending tape.  It has no stretch so it keeps things down and not moving.  It is easy to remove when necessary.  And has survived bed temps to 60 C.  Ymmv if you run the bed hotter.

Perhaps use Kapton (Polyimide) tape?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 09, 2020, 09:58:46 pm
Sitting here with 2 Ulitmakers (3 & 2+ Extended) and an Ender 3 I'm upgrading for a friend and stumbled across this.

https://www.ogadget.com/x/biqu-bx?utm_medium=FB%20Group&utm_source=FB%20Group%20Giveaway&fbclid=IwAR0KITw3tvxIbIi1AkkkPXZ9yOL9MOP2Zmf-34nBaK98jVnlNqOqf75YskA (https://www.ogadget.com/x/biqu-bx?utm_medium=FB%20Group&utm_source=FB%20Group%20Giveaway&fbclid=IwAR0KITw3tvxIbIi1AkkkPXZ9yOL9MOP2Zmf-34nBaK98jVnlNqOqf75YskA)

Has some interesting features for the "pre-release" price of $249.  (Seems its going through Kickstarter, so consider the risk).

Lightweight (219g) direct extruder,
400 MHz mainboard,
250mm x 250mm x 250mm print area (not on web page, but mentioned in FB group.)
Precision, silent steppers,
7" Touch Screen
All metal hot-end
Mean Well (Taiwanese) Power Supply
OctoPrint ready (just add Pi)

The video of the TPU cat that it supposedly printed got my attention (you have to join their FB group (BIQU BX Coming Soon...) to see the video unfortunately but I attached a screen shot (its squishy).

BIQU is the printer brand of Bigtree Tech, who are famous for their inexpensive upgrade boards for the Creality (and other) printers.

Ummm.... yeah. I was in on the "Super Early Bird" notification with the CR6-SE... responded immediately only to find they'd had a FurkBook-only pre-release party where all those slots were announced 12 hours early, and all the people on the mailing list were left out in the cold, only able to to get in on the general release. |O

It went downhill from there. :palm:

After seeing HobGoblyn's assache adventures with his BTT board and E3, not exactly excited by the prospect of joining another such China-Direct 3DP KickStarter. And certainly not on a printer they're going to try and sell for $500/copy absolutely as soon as they think they can get away with it. :--

mnem
I've had enough butthurt for a while, thanks. Not interested in volunteering for more.   (https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/nah.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 09, 2020, 10:40:31 pm
I'm allergic to Kickstarter now, I got my fingers burned once.
I will do again the same mistake if it is not a lot of money, I am not in a hurry to have it (=can wait for 2 years), and I am sure I can fix somehow if it is shit.

PS: The Ender 5 is a good base to do the upgrades (dual Z is already on the super slow boat from china).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: BroMarduk on September 10, 2020, 03:07:22 am
Ummm.... yeah. I was in on the "Super Early Bird" notification with the CR6-SE... responded immediately only to find they'd had a FurkBook-only pre-release party where all those slots were announced 12 hours early, and all the people on the mailing list were left out in the cold, only able to to get in on the general release. |O

It went downhill from there. :palm:

After seeing HobGoblyn's assache adventures with his BTT board and E3, not exactly excited by the prospect of joining another such China-Direct 3DP KickStarter. And certainly not on a printer they're going to try and sell for $500/copy absolutely as soon as they think they can get away with it. :--

mnem
I've had enough butthurt for a while, thanks. Not interested in volunteering for more.   (https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/nah.gif)

Points all taken.  I've had mixed results with the BTT boards and considering its a new hotend/extruder and board I'm sure it will be a fun beta testing exercise.   Assuming I can grab one at the pre-release price, then I may go for it.  If not, I won't be paying $500 until its a much more mature product.   All that said, it does have potential (at least according to the marketing spin).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 10, 2020, 03:10:17 am
I'm allergic to Kickstarter now, I got my fingers burned once.
I will do again the same mistake if it is not a lot of money, I am not in a hurry to have it (=can wait for 2 years), and I am sure I can fix somehow if it is shit.

PS: The Ender 5 is a good base to do the upgrades (dual Z is already on the super slow boat from china).

Oh, the ONLY reason I was willing to gamble that kind of money was the CReality name and reputation for actually being one of the few China-direct 3DP vendors that didn't just leave you twisting in the wind, but would actually address problems with faulty components, etc. Sadly, decisions made here by their executive offices have quite soured me on that reputation.

I expect now to be, like with my Diggro, pretty much on my own once it arrives. The thrill of having investors who don't expect a percentage of the profit has obviously fucked up their grey matter; or perhaps this is another case of them simply not thinking the way we do.  :-//

In related news, I've received a response from an admin on the CReality forum with an eMail at CReality, and a response to the eMail I sent there. Hopefully this will mean my address actually gets updated before my printer goes out... then the 30-50 day wait for shipping.  :palm:

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 10, 2020, 06:01:43 am
Did this (https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1784037324/bi-v20-a-self-replicating-high-precision-3d-printe) kiskstarter end 2013, shipping in 2014. I put my USA address in it. In Dec. 2014 I move out back to Europe. Of course the printer was not delivered yet. "No sorry we can't change address to Europe" , so I sent it to a friend of mine in USA.  :horse:

Basically anothere kickstarter rule is: do not change your address for the next two years.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: GlennSprigg on September 10, 2020, 02:08:06 pm
I was recently wondering!!!... Although there are very cheap & obviously rubbish 3D Printers that can now be bought
for as little as $79 now, (as in the video below), could they be modified into something more useful ??   :-//
I mean, if $79 gets you some software, and a bunch of hardware virtually making a 'CNC' machine, can it be repurposed?
I know it wouldn't have the strength to Mill most metals etc, but maybe 'mill' off copper to make Circuit-Boards, by working
with a 'negative' so it removes all the copper 'not' needed, etc etc. There must be many other uses. Surely it wouldn't be
too hard to replace the Head with other simple devices, for varied uses, and for such a low cost?   :phew:
Food for thought...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_k70lKAHeg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W_k70lKAHeg)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on September 10, 2020, 02:41:51 pm
The software is free. As for the hardware, they're not nearly rigid or square enough to do PCB milling and you won't have much original left by the time you're done making them better.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on September 10, 2020, 02:57:42 pm
Work area is extremely small, but you could do low precision things like cake decorating or laying down hot glue for glitter decorations on patches.

All in all, go up a couple hundred bucks and get a printer that works. 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 10, 2020, 03:30:37 pm
Yeah, seriously. Any 3DP that isn't based on al extrusion or metal plates/angles is eventually going to become a lack-of-rigidity clusterfuck in short order, requiring periodic, in some cases frequent realignment of the chassis. A great many of those that ARE made of metal will become such a clusterfuck very quickly, because the manufacturer tries to get away with the fewest number of cuts and doesn't properly design so the frame self-aligns into a properly rigid collection of planes. :palm:

The CReality Ender product line teeters on the edge of that balance; they are pretty much the bottom of the barrel for anything really useful. :-//

As Monkeh said; the software is free (in the *NIX flavor of the word; you pay for it by investing your time learning a new language) so really nothing useful there. The uber-cheap kits all try to leverage some warehouse score of weird non-standard hardware (steppers, long-ago abandoned hotend parts, sliders, rollers etc) or injection-molded ABS with precision faults that are visible to the naked eye, and almost never have a heated bed, so *blerk*... nothing useful there for the building of a decent 3DP. It's just money pissed away on junk that will take up space in the Tinkerer's Cupboard of Doom ( we all have one) until our kids have to haul it off to the dumpster when we die. :-[

TL/DR: They all exist pretty much to suck money out of the pockets of clueless noobs hoping to get a start in 3DP for cheap.  :palm:

Arguably, CReality is ALSO of that ilk... for sure so are most of their clones.

When you get into that price bracket, everything is a tradeoff... a better part A costs a dollar or three more, which WILL come out of the finished product in the form of a cheaper part B somewhere else. you need to be more knowledgeable than the typical noob to be able to choose those tradeoffs in a sane & productive fashion.

I learned those lessons the hard way with my Tevo Tarantulas... I would never EVER recommend one of them as a first printer for anyone.  |O

Due to the huge customer support base, I really can only recommend something like the E3/E3 Pro right now for someone wanting to get into 3DP on the cheap, and after seeing HobGoblyn's adventures with his, I further recommend ONLY from a store on Amazon where you have a reasonable right of refusal if your particular unit turns out to be a shitshow.

If you have more money to spend, there are a world of options out there... but as I'm the original cheap-ass dwagon, I only have first-hand experience of those by helping others fix theirs, so I'm not a good person to ask, as I will tend to be a bit prejudiced based on HAVING TO help people fix theirs. ;)

As I still haven't received MY CR6-SE, despite being one of the very firstest KS backers, I really can't recommend for or against... and by the time I DO get mine, pretty much everybody who knows anything about 3DP will have had a chance to dissect them in microscopic detail, and my opinion is already tainted by the whole thing.

Right now, if you can get one off Amazon for the roughly USD$180 I paid for mine, I can definitely still recommend the Diggro Alpha-3/Longer LK4 Pro. The fact of getting it from AMAZON for that price with touchscreen UI was the only reason I took a gamble on mine; IMO it was a gamble that paid off. :-+

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Bassman59 on September 10, 2020, 08:37:17 pm
Due to the huge customer support base, I really can only recommend something like the E3/E3 Pro right now for someone wanting to get into 3DP on the cheap, and after seeing HobGoblyn's adventures with his, I further recommend ONLY from a store on Amazon where you have a reasonable right of refusal if your particular unit turns out to be a shitshow.

I bought an Ender 3 Pro last month, based on the recommendation of two friends who own the thing as well as slicer support (Cura). For $204 shipped, it's a lot better than I expected. The assembly directions were useless but there's a guy on the YT who made a video that walks you through the build process.

It's got the stock firmware which seems to work well enough. The control board does have some stupid design decisions, the main one being that if you connect something to the USB port, that port powers the extruder fan, even when the main power supply is off. (and there are workarounds for that.) I can't imagine that this fan will last very long if powered up continuously.

I set up Octaprint on an old Mac mini but the USB-serial drivers needed to talk to the printer are buggy as fuck and kept crashing. So I dug out my old Raspberry Pi (possibly the first generation?) and despite the dire warnings that it might not be suitable, I installed Octoprint on it, and ... yeah, I ended up ordering a Pi 4.

I also bought the $80 "tent" for the machine, seeing as how it lives in basically a shed. The tent keeps it clean.

The 3 Pro came with the magnetic build surface which makes removing the work easy, but each print has a "skirt" of a layer of PLA around the design and getting that off of the build surface is difficult. Maybe I'll get the borosilicate build plate.

Most of my issues with it so far are my inexperience in doing mechanical packaging design. My main interest here is enclosures and panels for electronics projects. And even though I've been doing FPGAs for two decades now and I know that "a design is only as good as its models" I keep bumping into the problem of inaccurate models for the things on my boards. So a dumb thing like the incorrect height of a rotary encoder body meant nine hours wasted for a print to finish. (I'm now in the habit of setting up prints to start at night before going to sleep and checking on them in the morning. Or I'll run the printer when I'm at the office.)

The long print times has me concerned -- what's the actual duty cycle of these things? How long should I expect it to work before I need to futz with the extruder or something else?

Since the printer is in the same room as the DVR for my security cameras, I pointed a camera at the printer and I can see it working. When I see that it stops, I can shut off the printer's main supply remotely (there's a Wemo switch on it).

Quote
If you have more money to spend, there are a world of options out there... but as I'm the original cheap-ass dwagon, I only have first-hand experience of those by helping others fix theirs, so I'm not a good person to ask, as I will tend to be a bit prejudiced based on HAVING TO help people fix theirs. ;)

A couple of friends have asked whether they should get the Ender Pro 3, and I said, "it all depends on your willingness to futz with the thing. If you just want to get work done, spend the $1300 and buy the Dremel. That comes with actual support, actual software, and it's built to live in an office and not in a toolshed."

Quote
As I still haven't received MY CR6-SE, despite being one of the very firstest KS backers, I really can't recommend for or against... and by the time I DO get mine, pretty much everybody who knows anything about 3DP will have had a chance to dissect them in microscopic detail, and my opinion is already tainted by the whole thing.

My rule about Kickstarter and Indie GoGo and the rest of them: they simply don't exist.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 11, 2020, 01:26:51 pm
I've backed a couple dozen projects on KS... in all honesty, this is the first one where a vendor out & out lied to their customer base and blatantly used those customers in this fashion, and the first where there wasn't a clear and obvious attempt by the vendor to actually fulfill delivery on the promised timetable.

It is an experience I will not forget, especially when someone asks me how I feel about CReality as a company. Maybe I've been lucky up to now, or maybe I've just been extra-paranoid and that has protected me.

But I expect the difference is that this one time, I trusted CReality based on existing reputation, instead of asking myself "Why would an established manufacturer choose to release via KickStarter rather than retail as they've done all along?"

If I had asked that question, I'd probably already have my CR6-SE by now; purchased retail.

mnem
:-\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 11, 2020, 01:38:09 pm
Meanwhile at the CReality Headquarter

(https://i.pinimg.com/originals/f7/00/b5/f700b572bb81aebc90b3f6caf753b832.gif)

Happy now menm?

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 11, 2020, 02:48:16 pm
 :-DD



(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1064598;image)

No regrets. >:D

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1064602;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 11, 2020, 03:48:46 pm
I've received "confirmation" from CReality that my address has been successfully updated; in a shocking coincidence, they've just posted this "Update":

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1064610;image)

It's like they just can't stop digging the hole...

mnem
 :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on September 11, 2020, 05:11:00 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=94559.0;attach=1064722;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 12, 2020, 09:45:09 am
First print.. ready for lots of fishes slap on my face.
[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on September 12, 2020, 11:09:38 am
The longest journey begins with a single step.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 12, 2020, 04:31:16 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1065174;image)
First print.. ready for lots of fishes slap on my face.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=953188;image)

Not as cute as my first off the plate.  :-DD

Time to print something useful... https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2976002/#msg2976002 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2976002/#msg2976002)

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 13, 2020, 07:55:04 am
Best change so far was Nozzle T from 200 to 210 and bed T from 50 to 60, print quality like night and day.

Still Fighting again strings guitar!

Retraction distance from 5 to 6 mm and 45 to 47 mm/s did not help too much, try to move slowly up.

PS:
[attach=1]

Now SWMBO wants a Laser Cutter because "You can do so much more"  :-//


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tautech on September 13, 2020, 08:01:50 am
Now SWMBO wants a Laser Cutter because "You can do so much more"  :-//
FYI beanflying plays with them and was last seen building a 100W unit  :scared:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/40w-300x200mm-laser-cutter-engraver-vollerun/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/reviews/40w-300x200mm-laser-cutter-engraver-vollerun/)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 13, 2020, 08:03:27 am
We all TEA Brothers know it.  ;D

First a need a bigger home and the I get at least 100W too.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 13, 2020, 12:35:21 pm
going up to 7mm retraction distance.[attachimg=1]
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: JackJones on September 13, 2020, 12:58:09 pm
7 mm sounds quite a lot, ever for a Bowden extruder. Stringing can also be affected by nozzle temp and flow rate. I'd try calibrating the extruder and flow rate.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 13, 2020, 02:55:51 pm
Thanks, I went back to 5mm and 45mm/s. But now I will try 95% FR.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 13, 2020, 06:47:09 pm
Thanks JackJones, not perfect but going in the right direction:

[attach=1]

It's now 95%

[attach=2]

I will try to go down to 93% or so. It's fun.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: JackJones on September 13, 2020, 07:09:03 pm
You can calibrate it accurately by measuring it. For example in Cura, you load in a solid cube, set line width to 0.5mm, wall line count to 1, top layers 0, bottom layers 1 and infill 0. That prints a hollow cube without a top and single wall count. Then just measure it with calipers, your target is 0.48. No idea why it's not 0.5 like the line width is, but that is what all the guides say  :-//.

The formula for new flow rate is (0.48 / measured thickness) * current flow rate.

It can get quite low, for example I have to set my flow rate to ~80%. In practice I have noticed that the calculated theoretical flow rate has always been a little bit too low, I can see that the top of my prints have had small gaps and I've needed to adjust it up a bit. Theoretical numbers are a good starting point, but the real adjustment should be done by observing the actual prints.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on September 13, 2020, 07:25:17 pm
You can calibrate it accurately by measuring it. For example in Cura, you load in a solid cube, set line width to 0.5mm, wall line count to 1, top layers 0, bottom layers 1 and infill 0. That prints a hollow cube without a top and single wall count. Then just measure it with calipers, your target is 0.48. No idea why it's not 0.5 like the line width is, but that is what all the guides say  :-//.

Because the default extrusion width is likely 0.48mm. If you set it to 0.5mm, you should expect to get 0.5.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: JackJones on September 13, 2020, 07:50:08 pm
I'd expect to get 0.5mm when setting it at 0.5mm. But many guides tell to set it at 0.5mm but then calibrate it to give 0.48mm.  :-//

For example here: https://i.imgur.com/fwn6i3g.png (https://i.imgur.com/fwn6i3g.png)

Quote
Set Wall Thickness - 0.5

Aim for 0.48mm thickness on Cube

I don't know if it's some compensation for swelling or something. For me it has led to under extrusion, so I'd just recommend aiming for 0.5mm.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on September 13, 2020, 08:31:02 pm
They're.. wrong. They're instructing you to underextrude.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 13, 2020, 09:39:57 pm
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Bassman59 on September 14, 2020, 04:01:00 am
going up to 7mm retraction distance. (Attachment Link)

Is your bed aligned?

I used this guy's instructions and file (https://www.chepclub.com/bed-level.html) to do the job and I haven't had any issues with stringing. Again, Ender 3 Pro, with 200ºC extruder and 60ºC bed temperature. Hatchbox PLA filament.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 14, 2020, 06:52:14 am
8 Hours print overnight and I got my first spaghetti incident (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71J0J-3NXzL._SL1200_.jpg).

I thing I need to go back and do the first homework I skipped: Calibration. I will google, research and come back.
Meanwhile if some else have a good link, like Bassman59, to point to I will appreciate it.

PPS: I have a brand new still air sealed (mint) PLA from 2013. I give it a try. Since it was not in contact with any humidity it should be fine.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: JackJones on September 14, 2020, 10:01:08 am
Teaching Tech released this quite recently: https://teachingtechyt.github.io/calibration.html#intro (https://teachingtechyt.github.io/calibration.html#intro)

It goes through all the important calibration and tuning procedures. There is also this page for tuning retraction, etc.: http://prahjister.duckdns.org/ (http://prahjister.duckdns.org/)

It gives a little more control over the parameters than the ones given in the first link.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 14, 2020, 02:42:11 pm
8 Hours print overnight and I got my first spaghetti incident (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71J0J-3NXzL._SL1200_.jpg).

I thing I need to go back and do the first homework I skipped: Calibration. I will google, research and come back.
Meanwhile if some else have a good link, like Bassman59, to point to I will appreciate it.

PPS: I have a brand new still air sealed (mint) PLA from 2013. I give it a try. Since it was not in contact with any humidity it should be fine.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=971254;image)

7-8 year old filament? There's a world of chemical mischief could have gone on in that little sealed baggie with that much time left unsupervised.  :-DD

We look forward to the results of your experiment... :-+

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 15, 2020, 06:26:41 am
8 Hours print overnight and I got my first spaghetti incident (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71J0J-3NXzL._SL1200_.jpg).

I own you a picture:

[attach=1]

now forgive me my ignorance, but can a 3D build a bridge which is an arc in the XY plane?

PS: Printing the 8000mm³ calibration CUBE.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on September 15, 2020, 11:01:54 am
now forgive me my ignorance, but can a 3D build a bridge which is an arc in the XY plane?

If I understand you correctly - yes it can ...

with supports.  :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 15, 2020, 11:37:44 am
So if I see a .STL with an arc in the XY plane without support is bad design. Thanks.
This partially explain my spaghetti incident.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on September 15, 2020, 11:45:56 am
So if I see a .STL with an arc in the XY plane without support is bad design.

No not necessarily ... it's all a matter of perspective. If it's very small, it can bridge that without supports. But the longer it has to bridge in open air with no support underneath, the more it's likely to fail and droop (without support).

You are the one who has to decide when to tell the slicer to add supports, and if the model is worth the time to try and print. Like your decorative model, if it has to build supports all the way from the bottom to the top, it's going to add a hell of a lot of time and you may decide to not even try. Or you could cut the .stl in half, print both, and glue the halves together, or perhaps you might have a better idea.

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on September 15, 2020, 01:37:21 pm
I would suggest that the model you got spaghetti on is printable without support.  This opinion depends partly on assumptions about what the top looks like.  And is followed by the caveat that it is not an easy print.

Overhangs can be printed, as demonstrated by the holes in the winding arms of your model and by any of the many challenging test prints seen in this thread.  But each has a chance of failure and the more chances of failure the less likelihood of success.  You can make overhangs easier to print with minor changes to the model like chamfers and support struts.  Support struts are support elements you add to the model intending to remove them after printing.  The slicer will build such materiel everywhere.

Another possible source of your failure is loss of bed adhesion.  Tall slender prints like yours test adhesion as the drag of the print head gains more and more leverage with height.  Printing a large raft, either using the option in the slicer, or by adding a large base to the model can help this.  Or resort to glue stick, hairspray and the other options you will find in adhesion discussions.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 15, 2020, 02:21:41 pm
I own you a picture:   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1067164;image)

I think your sculpture perfectly captures the soul of "X-chromosome vs Y-chromosome".

Bravo!!!  :clap:

mnem
 >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 15, 2020, 03:14:13 pm
So installed the 2013 PLA, 20mm XYZcube is done. I did 6 measurements of each face: one in the middle, one an the left edge one the right one; and then  the other 3 orthogonal to the previous ones.

X Average    19,96
Y Average    20,05
Z Average    20,14

not too bad, I will no take further actions unless you gang say so.

Details:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1067288;image)

Now move on with a Benchy thing.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on September 16, 2020, 01:35:26 pm
Bearing in mind I'm very new to electronics, I wanted to double check I'm right.

I'm in the process of assembling most of this (to get rid of box on the side)  https://3duk.co.uk/index.php?topic=74.0 (https://3duk.co.uk/index.php?topic=74.0) and he says to add an earth to the printer frame.

As the frame is coated hence is non conductive, I don't see the point (or am I missing something).

thanks

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 16, 2020, 02:42:29 pm
General Rule:
IF (frame made of metal) AND (Device connected to Main Voltage) THEN earth on frame

No matter if it is a 3D Printer, wash mashine or light on the celing.

Is the coating layer saving you from main voltage? Scary question to answer better be safe then sorry.

PS: I do not have access to the link you posted at work so I could be wrong somehow.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 16, 2020, 02:46:51 pm
Bearing in mind I'm very new to electronics, I wanted to double check I'm right.

I'm in the process of assembling most of this (to get rid of box on the side)  https://3duk.co.uk/index.php?topic=74.0 (https://3duk.co.uk/index.php?topic=74.0) and he says to add an earth to the printer frame.

As the frame is coated hence is non conductive, I don't see the point (or am I missing something).

thanks



There is all sorts of exposed metal there; you can't count on the grounding of the PSU to do the job, and you really can't count on anodizing to act as an insulator for purposes of protection against potentials that can exceed 400V. For safety purposes, a "double-insulated" (chassis not grounded) piece of equipment needs to be completely encased in insulation capable of withstanding multiple KV.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1067920;image)

People a lot smarter than you and me have spent the better part of a century figuring out all the ways a piece of equipment can electrocute you; that's why we have Insulation Testers like this, which can generate up to 15KV for testing to a safe "safety margin".

Also, adding a chassis ground greatly reduces common-mode noise that can play havoc with sensors; that big aluminum pyramid is a great EMI/RF antenna.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on September 16, 2020, 05:12:23 pm
Sidetrack:  I've wondered if/how to connect chassis ground to 0V when using isolated AC-DC supplies incorporated in the device. My preference is to connect the chassis ground to supply ground, and keep it separate from circuit ground (since the AC-DC supplies here hobbyists like me can use are all isolated); here in the northern parts of EU, a CEE 7/4 plug connected to say a MeanWell AC-DC supply, with the supply chassis and printer chassis connected to ground, with the DC side isolated.  Better suggestions?  Reasons to do differently?

The fact that there may be safety caps connected between DC 0V and supply ground in the AC-DC supply (filter? suppression?) makes this too complicated for me to figure out.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on September 16, 2020, 05:43:51 pm
Thanks, that makes sense.

I was previously thinking along the lines of worst case scenario the power supply is in an earthed metal case, if it did manage to touch frame, frame would Earth through power supply case. But I now realise mains cable could short to the frame.

Will put an Earth point somewhere to make things safe.

Only built my lab towards end of last year and beginning of this year, 3D printer has sidetracked my learning a little :)

I have a lot to learn but am enjoy myself
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 16, 2020, 06:01:01 pm
Sidetrack:  I've wondered if/how to connect chassis ground to 0V when using isolated AC-DC supplies incorporated in the device. My preference is to connect the chassis ground to supply ground, and keep it separate from circuit ground (since the AC-DC supplies here hobbyists like me can use are all isolated); here in the northern parts of EU, a CEE 7/4 plug connected to say a MeanWell AC-DC supply, with the supply chassis and printer chassis connected to ground, with the DC side isolated.  Better suggestions?  Reasons to do differently?

The fact that there may be safety caps connected between DC 0V and supply ground in the AC-DC supply (filter? suppression?) makes this too complicated for me to figure out.

Well, regardless is the PSU is isolated or not. The real question is if the main cord with main voltage on it is connected to the device which has a metal frame.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device) RCD is the key.

If the isolation happens outisde the metal case well you do not need ground it. It that case yes connect it to 0VDC for EMC stuff.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on September 16, 2020, 06:57:03 pm
If the isolation happens outisde the metal case well you do not need ground it. It that case yes connect it to 0VDC for EMC stuff.
Yes, this is what I do with e.g. 5V USB microcontrollers in die-cast aluminium enclosures, as there is no separate "ground", only USB 5V and USB GND.  (That is, the USB GND is connected to the chassis at or very near the USB connector.  But I do wonder if I should put a big-ish resistor in between, to absorb the energy from static discharges from humans to the enclosure.)

This is a topic that might make a good Youtube video for someone like Dave or any of you EEs here.  Me no electrichicken, just a unclebumble.

Most current stepper board controller boards (all with integrated or plug-in stepper drivers) use a shared ground for motors and logic.  This is problematic, because if connecting via USB, you really need an USB isolator: the motor supply is separate from the computer power supply, and may not be at the same potential (or phase; consider electrical mains derived from two different legs of three phase power source).  Also, the motors do generate noise, which is not that easy to fully filter out from the logic side, because the logic stuff consumes a minuscule amount of current (50mA - 150mA at 5V) compared to the steppers.  The boards I've seen from RAMPS to SmoothieBoard just use several filter caps on the logic supply input and output pins and the MCU (and other external active IC) supply pins, use a shared motor and logic ground, and tell users to use the device "offline" (transferring files via memory cards or USB memory sticks), or have an Ethernet or WiFi connection for online use.

These 3D printers and mini-CNCs have such a board, a metal support frame, and a 12V or 24V AC-DC power supply (mainly for the steppers, but usually also used for the logic via a separate DC-DC converter).  If the AC supply has a separate ground connection (non-double-insulated supply), it should be connected to the frame; if it only has two AC wires, then the DC 0V should be connected to the frame – but should there be a power resistor or capacitor in series or in parallel to absorb static shocks, say someone coiling PLA in dry conditions with just the wrong gloves on, and accumulating a rather high static charge, and discharging it through the metal frame?

(Those who have a whiteboard in their office: I recommend you put a big carbon resistor, say 1M, between the aluminium pen tray and a nearby grounding point.  No more annoying zings from static discharge.  Should one put a capacitor in parallel to the resistor also? Why?)

So, there is a point on A) how to design better (or a simple example of using external bigger drivers (up to several amps peak per phase) with optoisolators); B) how to safely connect an "offline" printer with shared motor-logic supply to a PC via serial or USB-serial using an USB isolator (the el-cheapo Chinese clones of ADuM3160 appnote, that work with low and full speed USB 2.0 (1Mbit/s and 12Mbit/s respectively), have worked perfectly for me thus far); and C) how us hobbyists building our own printer enclosures and tinkering with our printers etc. should deal with grounding and static shock dissipation sensibly.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on September 16, 2020, 11:42:17 pm
I was previously thinking along the lines of worst case scenario .......
Good approach.  Understand, though, that Murphy is a creative bastard.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 17, 2020, 03:19:46 am
No, she's a bitch. And she has puppies.  :-DD

mnem
Maxim #9. Capacitors are Murphy's footsoldiers.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: KaneTW on September 17, 2020, 02:41:27 pm
What flatness requirement is adequate for a 3D printer? My rental Raise3D plus is a goddamn pain to get level. I finally got it so that the calibration prints all come out MOSTLY nice, but it's still a bit unlevel. Pretty tired of messing with it though and I just want to order a really flat replacement plate.

I'm thinking a 50um spec, ideally less. The difference between level and unlevel is small enough that I can't feel it with a 80um feeler gauge over a 100um one, and have to go by print quality instead :(
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 17, 2020, 05:54:06 pm
Depends on the machine. For non-auto-leveling, my experience shows me that relatively, 1/3 to 1/2 of layer height is all it takes to turn near-perfection into a fustercluck. As most modern machines print at 0.10-0.15mm in fine mode and 0.20mm as medium-res or draft mode, then that means a few thou is all it really takes to fuxxor you over big time. 1/2 of 0.20mm is 0.1mm or 3.9 thousandths of an inch.

Not sure how well auto-leveling machines manage to resolve this; that's one of the reasons I was interested in the CR-6SE.

mnem
 :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on September 19, 2020, 09:06:16 pm
Coming at it from another direction, I find that I am adjusting my bed leveling screws +/- about 20 degrees to get overall good results.  The screws have a 0.7 mm pitch so that works out to about +/- 40 micrometers.   There is a bit of subjectivity on what "good results" means, and also on the amount of rotation on the bed leveling screws, but it is fairly consistent with KaneTWs observation.  I am sure that is ball park close to a good tolerance.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: MarkF on September 20, 2020, 02:34:50 am
After seeing this video, I just updated my Marlin firmware (to version 1.1.9.1) to enable Mesh Bed Leveling.
It allows you to manually set 9 mesh points to further fine tune your level after you get you bed close with the leveling knobs. 
The fine tuning is done through the display and it is saved in EEPROM.

This does not need any extra hardware and may help with warped beds.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rij29oy6t70 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rij29oy6t70)

I haven't had a chance to run through the procedure yet.  Just got it installed.

I'm using version 1.1.9.1 because I have a CR-10 Mini with the original Melzi board. 
It doesn't have enough program memory to run version 2.0.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: HobGoblyn on September 20, 2020, 09:50:39 am
If you download the source code you can increase the no of mesh points.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on September 20, 2020, 11:34:53 am
I'm using version 1.1.9.1 because I have a CR-10 Mini with the original Melzi board. 
It doesn't have enough program memory to run version 2.0.

That's odd, because I've built Marlin 2.x for those controllers a few dozen times..
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on September 20, 2020, 11:43:18 am
In that video he really doesn't clearly state what you have to do when it's finished with all the points. He says -

"When you are finished the printer will beep to tell you it has saved the mesh"

No, it hasn't saved the mesh, it just finished all the points. You must scroll down a few lines and press "Save". He should have clearly shown that step.

This has burned me several times because I know I have to save it but the menu doesn't show "Save" unless you scroll down, and if I'm in a hurry I've forgotten to do it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 24, 2020, 01:11:27 am
CR-6SE Update number FUCK YOU mnem:

Quote from: CReality on KickStarter
Here is the link: https://www.creality.com/blog-detail/creality-cr-6-se-3d-printer-shipment-update-20 (https://www.creality.com/blog-detail/creality-cr-6-se-3d-printer-shipment-update-20)

🚀So far, 4090 Units Creality CR-6 SE 3D Printer With Add-ons Have Been Shipped!

⭐Besides, there are two batches left that have not been delivered yet. If everything runs smoothly, We expect to ship all the shipments within the 25th of September.

If your tracking number has not been updated for a long time, please don’t worry, it is currently onboard or customs clearance, and will be delivered to you immediately after the goods arrive at the port and received by UPS/FedEx Courier express company. (It will take about 50 days for it to be delivered to you)

Meanwhile... people have been able to buy retail for weeks now, and already have them in hand (because they actually got the Express Shipping they paid for) and are bitching about shit falling off and catching fire.  :palm:

Oh, and still no idea whatsoever when our add-ons will ship, much less be delivered.  |O

mnem
They're coming... they're coming... Yeah, so's Christmas. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=876074;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Ed.Kloonk on September 24, 2020, 06:28:08 am
Please find my Librem 5 thread.

 >:(
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: RoGeorge on September 24, 2020, 06:57:06 am
Seen this on Hackaday this morning, and thought might be of interest here:
https://hackaday.com/2020/09/23/reforming-3d-prints-with-salt-and-heat/ (https://hackaday.com/2020/09/23/reforming-3d-prints-with-salt-and-heat/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRLJ4ylGTFc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRLJ4ylGTFc)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: SilverSolder on September 24, 2020, 04:30:15 pm

That is actually really clever, he is basically casting the component...  using the 3D print both as the pattern and the material to be cast!   

So you might be able to use other casting techniques, like using fine sand (instead of salt),  perhaps even high temperature silicone would work...

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 24, 2020, 05:34:24 pm
Please find my Librem 5 thread.

 >:(

Yeah; this is not really comparable; these are people who are an unknown quantity producing something that hasn't been before. The reason so many people got sucked into the CR6-SE KS is because it was CReality - an established brand in the business of what they're promoting on the KS, and that has up til now for the most part kept their promises to customers.

That is completely different from this scenario, where they clearly deliberately used of the "free-for-all" nature of KS to take advantage of 3DP enthusiasts to essentially bankroll their next product without the pesky interest and/or partnership of commercial investors. This was all based on them promising to provide a level of service they have been providing for over a decade, and then reneging on those promises because KS says they can.

Now if your phone was being KSed by like Nokia... then I might consider it comparable. But there's a huge difference between making an honest attempt to keep your promises and running out of money like that phone, and being a well-known brand and advertising your product like it was any other of your well-known products only on KS, then using the fact it's KS as an excuse to charge for Express Shipping but shipping via slow-boat, then taking all the money and bankrolling production for retail BEFORE YOUR KS CUSTOMERS even have half their product on the way.

They simply do not think the same way as Westerners.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 25, 2020, 09:17:30 pm
Now the bad news....
 :horse: :horse:
Murphy got me again, I pulled away the Laptop with too much joy, the connected USB Cable ripped of the micro USB port on the Ender.
 :horse: :horse:
will fix it, just a PITA! Stupid me.

Fixing it, of course all the PCB pads are on the stripped connector...  :horse:
Found pin 5-6 on the CH340G which are D+ and D- of the USB.
Ender 5 silent board is easy to rev eng.

Do I need to wireup the 5V+ Bus from the USB cable to the Ender board? I am reading about people taping the 5V pin on the USB connector to avoid the Display to stay on when the rasberry pi in connected.
So I feel I can live without the 5V connected to the board.

What do you think?
I feel I can live without 5V from USB
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on September 25, 2020, 09:50:01 pm
Yeah; this is not really comparable; these are people who are an unknown quantity producing something that hasn't been before. The reason so many people got sucked into the CR6-SE KS is because it was CReality - an established brand in the business of what they're promoting on the KS, and that has up til now for the most part kept their promises to customers.

That is completely different from this scenario, where they clearly deliberately used of the "free-for-all" nature of KS to take advantage of 3DP enthusiasts to essentially bankroll their next product without the pesky interest and/or partnership of commercial investors. This was all based on them promising to provide a level of service they have been providing for over a decade, and then reneging on those promises because KS says they can.

Now if your phone was being KSed by like Nokia... then I might consider it comparable. But there's a huge difference between making an honest attempt to keep your promises and running out of money like that phone, and being a well-known brand and advertising your product like it was any other of your well-known products only on KS, then using the fact it's KS as an excuse to charge for Express Shipping but shipping via slow-boat, then taking all the money and bankrolling production for retail BEFORE YOUR KS CUSTOMERS even have half their product on the way.

They simply do not think the same way as Westerners.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Well, that was predictable. A company that has your money and knows you're not going anywhere isn't going to trip over their own feet to fulfil your order if they can take someone else's money at full price. Don't expect business to engage in ethics if it isn't profitable, Western or not.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 26, 2020, 12:39:29 am
It's unlikely to cause harm to leave the 5V line disconnected. I'd try it and see; if you can still communicate with it as needed, then don't bother with the 5V. Obviously do make sure the GND is reconnected tho.  :-+

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on September 26, 2020, 01:09:05 am
Do I need to wireup the 5V+ Bus from the USB cable to the Ender board? I am reading about people taping the 5V pin on the USB connector to avoid the Display to stay on when the rasberry pi in connected.
So I feel I can live without the 5V connected to the board.

Correct do not re-wire the 5V. I made myself a special USB cable with the 5V line cut to connect to my Pi running Octoprint.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: MarkF on September 26, 2020, 01:15:36 am
You may want to go ahead an connect the +5V if for some reason in the future you have the board out and want to burn new firmware.

As far as the Rasberry Pi, I don't care either for the Pi powering the printer when using OctoPrint.
I see the the same thing with the Pi powering my Creality CR-10.
I was considering building an adapter or a USB cable to block the 5V from the Pi.
Then you have a choice when doing any maintenance in the future.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 26, 2020, 02:15:37 pm
You may want to go ahead an connect the +5V if for some reason in the future you have the board out and want to burn new firmware.

As far as the Rasberry Pi, I don't care either for the Pi powering the printer when using OctoPrint.
I see the the same thing with the Pi powering my Creality CR-10.
I was considering building an adapter or a USB cable to block the 5V from the Pi.
Then you have a choice when doing any maintenance in the future.

Yeah; a good point, but it's the same work whether you do it now or later. If you already have the board out might be worth modding in a bit of 0.100" header with a jumper to be able to isolate/connect the +5V easily. A bit of header with some wires soldered on, a blob of epoxy on an unpopulated corner of the PCB, and Bob's yer auntie.  :-+

But I wouldn't go pulling the board out to do this if you've already installed it; that's doing twice the work just in case you need it someday.  :palm:

mnem
"Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof." ~grandmomma
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: KaneTW on September 26, 2020, 06:00:40 pm
Got a rental Raise3D Pro2 Plus a few weeks back and overall I'm just incredibly disappointed with it. Print quality is ok as long as it's level, but there's no autoleveling and the bed gets out of level way too easily. Combine with a fair bunch of bad mechanical design and I expected better from this. Looking for another printer at this point, but at least I'm only out a few hundred bucks.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 27, 2020, 01:08:06 pm
Well, considering it's a highly-rated $4K machine with dual extruder, might be worth spending some time figuring out what its major malfunction is.

I've never had the opportunity to play with any of their hardware (certainly out of my price range), but I've got to think it has to have something over the $700 E5 at that price, and not just the shiny plastic box and dual head.  :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 27, 2020, 04:13:53 pm
You may want to go ahead an connect the +5V if for some reason in the future you have the board out and want to burn new firmware.

As far as the Rasberry Pi, I don't care either for the Pi powering the printer when using OctoPrint.
I see the the same thing with the Pi powering my Creality CR-10.
I was considering building an adapter or a USB cable to block the 5V from the Pi.
Then you have a choice when doing any maintenance in the future.

Well, if the board is out I have my TTi PSU which can spit out 24V. I left the 5V disconnected and done (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3251944/#msg3251944)!
USB works perfectly when there is 24V applied on the board, just flashed the last Marlin pulled from GITHUB on it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 27, 2020, 05:11:27 pm
Well, whaddayaknow. Supposedly my CR6-SE has finally shipped; they posted the latest list on Friday and my number's on it. Still no confirmation/tracking eMail, still no word on when our add-ons will ever ship.

mnem
*back to the real world*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: KaneTW on September 27, 2020, 09:06:53 pm
Well, considering it's a highly-rated $4K machine with dual extruder, might be worth spending some time figuring out what its major malfunction is.

I've never had the opportunity to play with any of their hardware (certainly out of my price range), but I've got to think it has to have something over the $700 E5 at that price, and not just the shiny plastic box and dual head.  :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:

I spent a lot of time on it and while the issues are fixable, a lot of it is just an inability to meet the spec without constant maintenance, combined with unhelpful support. I'm sure other people had a better experience, but either their QA is shot or I just have higher standards.

Could be the fault of my local reseller, but they're a representative of the company and I would certainly not want to work with them considering how they brushed off ANY issues I raised.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 28, 2020, 01:31:22 am
So are you saying poor design, or rental machine that's tore up from the floor up...?  ???

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 28, 2020, 06:26:23 am
https://all3dp.com/2/creality-ender-3-abs-tips-tricks-to-get-great-abs-prints/#tip-1-fix-that-fan (https://all3dp.com/2/creality-ender-3-abs-tips-tricks-to-get-great-abs-prints/#tip-1-fix-that-fan)

Why the board fan is connected in parallel with the part cooling fan near the hotend? Even on my Ender 5 it's like this.
To me no sense, temped to connect that fan to the always 12V output.

 :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on September 28, 2020, 11:11:24 am
https://all3dp.com/2/creality-ender-3-abs-tips-tricks-to-get-great-abs-prints/#tip-1-fix-that-fan (https://all3dp.com/2/creality-ender-3-abs-tips-tricks-to-get-great-abs-prints/#tip-1-fix-that-fan)

Why the board fan is connected in parallel with the part cooling fan near the hotend? Even on my Ender 5 it's like this.
To me no sense, temped to connect that fan to the always 12V output.

 :-//

Well ... because if it weren't, the hobbyist would have one less item to improve upon and they would be less proud of their machine and the knowledge they gained from doing the improvement.

 :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: KaneTW on September 28, 2020, 01:33:51 pm
So are you saying poor design, or rental machine that's tore up from the floor up...?  ???

mnem
 :popcorn:

Other users report the same issues. Machine is in as-new shape and it's basically "rent for 3 months to test it, then you can buy."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 28, 2020, 09:19:43 pm
Uggh. Sounds like you've already done the deep dive and found it's just a bad design.  :palm:

Only you can decide if it's worth the hassle of ironing out all the bugs yourself. I gave up on my Tevo Tarantulas years ago; but only after fighting tooth & claw to make them a decent machine & failing. :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 28, 2020, 09:35:42 pm
https://all3dp.com/2/creality-ender-3-abs-tips-tricks-to-get-great-abs-prints/#tip-1-fix-that-fan (https://all3dp.com/2/creality-ender-3-abs-tips-tricks-to-get-great-abs-prints/#tip-1-fix-that-fan)

Why the board fan is connected in parallel with the part cooling fan near the hotend? Even on my Ender 5 it's like this.
To me no sense, temped to connect that fan to the always 12V output.

 :-//

Well ... because if it weren't, the hobbyist would have one less item to improve upon and they would be less proud of their machine and the knowledge they gained from doing the improvement.

 :-DD
Short version: It's based on a RAMPS 1.4 board, and they already used up the extra Analog/PWM output in that template making the hotend fan so it was FW controlled. By doing this, when the machine isn't working, the only fan running is the one in the PSU. When idling, there's really no NEED for the board fan to be on anyways.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=984878;image)   https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg3051586/#msg3051586

Be glad you at least had that; my Diggro came wired with every fan except the parts cooling fan on 100% of the time. Don't you think THAT was annoying AF, I tell you whut...  |O Enough that I wound up doing the mod above to make the extruder fan temp-controlled.

EDIT: In the case of that article, seems to me you could as easily put it either on all the time for ABS, or possibly parallel with the extruder fan, provided they're both the same voltage. On mine, I replaced the little 40mm screamer with a 80mm Arctic; almost as quiet as Noctua, but ~$6 and Prime-able.

mnem
 :-/O

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on September 29, 2020, 06:25:07 am
If found a >40mm screaming eagle 24V in my old fan bin I'll swap it, otherwise I will move on with a 24V always on little annoying bastard.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: KaneTW on September 29, 2020, 02:55:35 pm
Uggh. Sounds like you've already done the deep dive and found it's just a bad design.  :palm:

Only you can decide if it's worth the hassle of ironing out all the bugs yourself. I gave up on my Tevo Tarantulas years ago; but only after fighting tooth & claw to make them a decent machine & failing. :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:

Yeah, I'm just returning it once the 3 months are up. I might take the plunge and just get an industrial 3D printer.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 29, 2020, 03:21:07 pm
Oh, I completely misunderstood.

I thought you'd bought it for a few hundred off-lease; not that you had leased it on a trial basis.

Hmmm... maybe this brand is some skeevy rent-to-own scheme (Mark up cheapest possible example product 1000%, then rent-to-own with usurious fees and breach of contract clauses) of some sort, only applied to 3DP instead of cheap AF TVs and furniture.  :-\

mnem
 :popcorn:



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: KaneTW on September 29, 2020, 03:36:41 pm
It's just my local reseller that offers this. It's normally sold regularly.

The contract can hit me at most for consumable parts, and those are pretty cheap. Well, I guess they can try but that'll be a matter for the lawyers in that case.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tautech on September 29, 2020, 04:44:58 pm
Defpom has a 2nd 3D printer.  :scared:

New Ender-3 V2 build:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AlOUpjTk4M (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0AlOUpjTk4M)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 29, 2020, 04:54:16 pm
I find this completely resistible. Even watching the video.  :-DD

mnem
*toddles off to teach my daughter something*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 30, 2020, 02:45:15 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1078908;image)

https://news.mit.edu/2020/3d-printing-miniature-magnetic-pump-0909

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 30, 2020, 06:14:39 pm
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEerHkxMN2w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pEerHkxMN2w)

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:854575#files

mnem
*impairing productivity since nineteen-mumblety-mumble* >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: pipe2null on October 01, 2020, 07:25:12 pm
https://news.mit.edu/2020/3d-printing-miniature-magnetic-pump-0909

mnem
 :popcorn:
"The researchers printed the pump in two ways, using Nylon 12 as the structural material in both. In the first pump, a magnet is press-fitted into the structure of the enclosing piston. With the second monolithic pump, the researchers used Nylon 12 embedded with neodymium magnet (NdFeB) microparticles to create the pump’s magnetic core."

Hmm...  I haven't seen filament with embedded neodymium particles on Amazon yet, but I'd give it a try if it wasn't too expensive.  Heh.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 04, 2020, 08:46:31 pm
Calibration weekend, today Extruder estep.

https://teachingtechyt.github.io/calibration.html#esteps (https://teachingtechyt.github.io/calibration.html#esteps)

I made a fixture to calibrate from the old t-pipe for the Estep of the extruder:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1082774;image)

very very useful.
Mine is 119mm but the length does not matters, what matters is that the length it known.

It turns out my was E93 and it should have been E95.04.

Here my iterations (well it's a very long story):

Set         Error [mm]   
E95.31         -0,45
E95.64         0,2
E96.16         -0,88
E95.64         -0,83
E94.98         0,08
E95.04         0,27
E95.04         0,09
E95.04         0,02

Lesson of today: bowden extruder sucks (not just because the calibration, I touched with my hands how imprecise they are). I need a direct jazz for my ender.

Can you suggest me a good direct extruder for a Ender5? No budget limit.  :horse: :-DD

Looks like the E3D Hemera is sexy but not available.

PS: Of course not all hotend direct extruder are compatible, 12V and 24V and montage plate. Why life is so difficult?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 07, 2020, 07:08:12 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1082974;image)      Dwagon comes back to 3DP after a move:

So after moving, my Diggro sat pretty much unused for several weeks while we got things semi-livable in the new place; last week I picked up some Dell AA23300 server PSUs cheap, and after modding them to turn on when NOT shoved up a Dell server's arse, I decided to work on some plastic bits to tone down the screaming fans and tidy the things up, as I want to trade a few of them with a fellow eevBlogger.

Well, the printer just repeatedly   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image)   for the better part of a day; eventually I deduce that when the layer fan kicks on, it's just cooling the nozzle too much and causing the filament to cool inside the nozzle; as long as it remains off, while manually feeding the filament the extrusion feels normal with little backpressure. As soon as I turned the layer fan on, extrusion slowed to a crawl with lots of backpressure. Temp shown on the screen does not change appreciably.

I tried raising the hotend temp, but decided there had to be something seriously wrong when 235° barely made it extrude at all, and then only with the layer fan at 60%. I tried lowering the the layer fan so it didn't blow right on the block, but due to the geometry of the CR10 printhead, I simply could not get it low enough to be just a couple mm above the work as the 'fang instructions say to do.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1085052;image)   

I get to thinking... one of the mods I bought for the Diggro at the outset was a MicroSwiss heater block for CR10; I found it on sale, and it comes with a silicone sock that better covers both the block and part of the nozzle. A few quick measurements show that assembled with the original Diggro heat-sink, the overall height is ~4mm less than the CR10 hotend.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1085048;image)

Plus, the heat-brake tube is all metal, while the one from the CR10 hotend is bored hollow, allowing the Bowden tube to contact directly with the nozzle. This combined with the Cap tube is probably why I've never had a clog; but it does limit me to PLA.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1085056;image)   

So begins another adventure in 3DP; I get the new hotend built, set the nozzles on the 'fang so they're just 1.5mm above the work, and it seems to work right off the bat... 200° with layer fan off & 220° temps with layer fan on and I've never had a smoother feeling extrusion by hand. No bubbling, no smoking, and the extrusion with layer fan on is like making rods it's so straight. :-+

But of course this joy did not come until after I had a penis fingers event with the new heater cartridge and blew up my mainboard; requiring open-heart surgery and a dragon-sized FET bodged in place.  :palm:   No, you may not see pics of THAT crime.  >:D

Why the sudden change in extrusion behavior? I had no idea. Hindsight says it may be ambient temp tho; one of many things I plan to try is a big box over the printer as an experiment once I find my monitor cam.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1084944;image)             

1)   After some small amount of misery and self-mutilation (more love nips from a hot MOSFET), I finally wake up to a semi-successful print this morning. Looks a little fuzzy around the edges, but it did at least complete the print. I'm pretty sure that once I dial in the temps, it'll print better than OEM, and not just on square things with PLA.  ;)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1084948;image)

2)   For a change, removing the supports did not fight me at all; they pulled out easily and in one piece. I was quite surprised by this, given how deep inside the piece they extend.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1084952;image)

C)   Print quality is "Ehhhh..." at best; calling it a successful print is probably pushing it. Most of the fuzzies will go away with a little fire tho...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1084956;image)

4)   Okay... make that a lot of fire. And a zip-tie.  :-DD But still... good enough for Proof-of-Concept on my muffler tailpiece.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1084960;image)

5)   Money shot...? Taking measurements. Qa-plahh!  Okay...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1084964;image)

6)   Side By Side with stock unit. Well, it did work as intended; I was able to fit the tailpiece on the PSU, and overall appearance is as intended. A successful print would tidy up the look of the PSU without adding appreciable length with a stock IEC cord; however 90° cords are right out. And left out. They're just... OUT.

TL/DR: Installed, the tailpiece does make a noticeable reduction in the perceived noise level with it sitting on the desktop. The higher-pitched elements are reduced quite a bit; but it is still somewhat distracting in a quiet workspace. While my tailpiece does tidy up the look of the unit (and I do have plans to make a similar front piece) and makes a 3-5dB difference in noise measured at the back of the unit, the single most effective noise abatement attack was to throw the whole thing under my desk. We'll see what difference, if any, adding the frontpiece makes; as muffling the inlet area did make a noticeable and measurable difference with the unit on the desktop.

Details of that adventure can be seen in the TEA thread. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3266710/#msg3266710)




mnem
*back into the suck*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 08, 2020, 06:57:05 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1085492;image)   More Frustion360   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image).

mnem
I'm gonna go put ice on my junk now.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 09, 2020, 05:02:10 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1086022;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1086026;image)
And the   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image)   continues. First layer is going down beautifully... after that it turns to hairy shit.  :palm:

I'm thinking it's a matter of the right combination of hotend temp and layer fan speed with the 'fang... but still haven't found it. Extruder drive starts tick-ticking when the fans kick on, then no flow and horrible layer bonding. |O

mnem
I'm gonna go put ice cream on my junk now.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 09, 2020, 11:45:00 pm
OK I'm expecting a Master Class in 3D printing problem deduction and fix ...  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 10, 2020, 03:42:09 am
Only if, once my junk stops aching from all the kicking,  I am somehow stricken by some sort of prescient clarity.  :o

I've literally NEVER had a 3DP go this far off the rails; every one I've owned since the Tarantulas has mostly worked pretty well stock out of the box and required very little dickery to go from "Okay" to producing decent, better than usable prints reliably all the time; including this one when I wasn't fucking it up myself.

Pretty much every problem I've had with the Diggro was resolved by figuring out what glaringly obvious mistake I'd made while tinkering, but overlooked for days on end afterwards...  |O  By comparison, my worst headache with the Tornado was some ghosting when trying to do too-small print in sidewalls.  :-//

Usually when they fail on me, it's a go/no-go fix. Maybe I just haven't suffered enough 3DP misery yet to know how to fix this.  :-DD

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 10, 2020, 10:42:36 am
My hot bed measures 2,5 Ohm.
@24V power 230W on a 235mmx235mm bed about 420mW/cm².

Interesting.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: SilverSolder on October 10, 2020, 02:25:58 pm
OK I'm expecting a Master Class in 3D printing problem deduction and fix ...  :popcorn:

Machine the part out of aluminum instead?  :D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 10, 2020, 04:37:17 pm
Stepper motor current calibration.

According to here:

https://teachingtechyt.github.io/calibration.html#steppers (https://teachingtechyt.github.io/calibration.html#steppers)

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H41hIXdB6js (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H41hIXdB6js)

to calculate the Vref in Ender silent board  it is

VREF = (RMS current * 2.5) / 1.77

according to the TMC2208 data sheet, see here (http://www.trinamic.com%2Ffileadmin%2Fassets%2FProducts%2FICs_Documents%2FTMC220x_TMC2224_datasheet_Rev1.09.pdf) pag 50, it is

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1086474;image)

which means if you do the math Rsense = 100m \$\Omega\$ .

Unfortunately on my board (Creality Silent) I see R150 and not R100 sense resistors  :-//

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1086478;image)

So I am almost sure the formula above do not apply to my board, it should be:

VREF = (RMS current * 2.5) / 1.277

Now regarding my motors on my Ender 5:

Z Axis, X Axis
42-34, I max 0.84A

VREF = 1.163 V - 10% (to be safe) = 1.047 V 

Extruder, Y Axis
42-40, I max 1A

VREF= 1.384 V - 10% (to be safe) = 1.246 V

In the future I will have the two Z Axis with two 42-34 in parallel, so I need to adjust the Vref there to 1.047 V * 2 = 2.094 V

PS: Always double check.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 10, 2020, 11:05:25 pm
Done long ago on mine. A lot of the manufacturers of the cheapies like to configure the current pretty low to reduce operating noise; the Diggro was no exception even tho it came with TMC2208s.

Are you sure about the current ratings on those steppers...? I have yet to see one in the wild that wasn't safe to at least 1.5A; IME, practical limit is the capacity of the driver, not the stepper. Don't confuse max continuous/hold rating of the stepper with peak current, which is what you're setting on the VRef. :-//

https://wiki.fysetc.com/TMC2208/

In my case, there is a functional issue with the way the extruder is working when the layer fan kicks on; I have confirmed this with manual feeding. Extrusion quantity and quality goes totally out to lunch when the layer fan kicks on, and a huge increase in backpressure. I'm just not sure what to do about it.  :-//

My latest attempt was 220° first layer, 230° regular temp with layer fan set to 30% regular and 50% max speed. Not sure how much more heat I can add before I start boiling the PLA inside the heatbrake. And it's not like I can move the layer fan any lower... so I'm a bit stumped as to what to try next.

mnem
 :scared:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 11, 2020, 07:53:11 am
Thanks a lot dragon. It makes sense.

Done long ago on mine. A lot of the manufacturers of the cheapies like to configure the current pretty low to reduce operating noise; the Diggro was no exception even tho it came with TMC2208s.

Are you sure about the current ratings on those steppers...? I have yet to see one in the wild that wasn't safe to at least 1.5A; IME, practical limit is the capacity of the driver, not the stepper. Don't confuse max continuous/hold rating of the stepper with peak current, which is what you're setting on the VRef. :-//

Here the datasheet about some creality steppers:

https://gist.github.com/knoopx/e6c40a009e796203b93a75a3ed6a5ab8 (https://gist.github.com/knoopx/e6c40a009e796203b93a75a3ed6a5ab8)

Mine are for example BJ42D15 - 26V02 so no idea, I keep the above as reference.

After rereading the TMC2208 datasheet, with Rsense R150 the creality eng. set the max current on the steppers of 1.28A RMS (Vref 2.5V). So yeah, the bottle neck is the driver not the stepper, kind of, depends on which steppers are installed.

Anyway also here

https://wiki.fysetc.com/TMC2208/

the Irms/Vref calculatio is wrong.

Quote
The maximum settable motor current is 1.77A RMS (0.11Ohm sense resistors), but the SilentStepSticks can only be used up to 1.2A RMS.
Irms = (Vref * 1.77A) / 2.5V = Vref * 0.71
Vref = (Irms * 2.5V) / 1.77A = Irms * 1.41 = Imax

with R110 it is not 1.77/2.5 but 1.64/2.5 in legacy mode. Maybe they are meaning UART control. Meh  :-//

Now I am tempted to swap the X,Y creality steppers with a stepping angle of 0.9°.

In my case, there is a functional issue with the way the extruder is working when the layer fan kicks on; I have confirmed this with manual feeding. Extrusion quantity and quality goes totally out to lunch when the layer fan kicks on, and a huge increase in backpressure. I'm just not sure what to do about it.  :-//

My latest attempt was 220° first layer, 230° regular temp with layer fan set to 30% regular and 50% max speed. Not sure how much more heat I can add before I start boiling the PLA inside the heatbrake. And it's not like I can move the layer fan any lower... so I'm a bit stumped as to what to try next.

mnem
 :scared:

I would measure the Extruder current and voltage when the layer fan is on/off. Just to make sure it is not an electronic problem. Yes in theory it should not be the case.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 11, 2020, 09:50:15 am
FUUU I couldn't resist

New X motor, here (https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/nema-17-stepper-motor/nema-17-bipolar-0-9deg-36ncm-51oz-in-0-9a-5-4v-42x42x40mm-4-wires.html?mfp=149-step-angle%5B0.9%5D%2C148-bipolar-unipolar%5BBipolar%5D)

New Y motor, here (https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/nema-17-stepper-motor/Dual-Shaft-Nema-17-Bipolar-09deg-44Ncm-6248ozin-168A-28V-42x42x48mm-4-Wires.html?mfp=149-step-angle%5B0.9%5D%2C148-bipolar-unipolar%5BBipolar%5D%2C71-single-shaft-dual-shaft%5BDual%20Shaft%5D)

Still looking for a nice direct extruder with hotend, candidates are

https://www.bondtech.se/en/product/bondtech-ddx-for-creality-ender-cr-10s/ (https://www.bondtech.se/en/product/bondtech-ddx-for-creality-ender-cr-10s/)
https://e3d-online.com/products/e3d-hemera-direct-kit-1-75mm (https://e3d-online.com/products/e3d-hemera-direct-kit-1-75mm)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 11, 2020, 03:48:37 pm
Yeah, that datasheet looks like the nominal settings FROM CReality. As soon as you go TMC2208 you get a lot more headroom; I have mine set for 1.1A.

You're right; fysetec's calculator is configured for R100 shunts, not R150. you'll have to do it the hard way with calculating-ily.

So... CReality's documentation blows... you don't know what the real current ratings or °/step on them are. :o

Primarily, you're ordering these steppers so you can have some specs on them...? That's really sad, CREALITY.  :palm:



I've rechecked my VREFs; they're all right where I had them. I figured "Maybe while I was in there fixing that toasted FET on the hotend..." but no. Still dead on.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1086962;image)

Currently, I'm following through on my earlier threat to build a cardboard box enclosure... figured cost is zero (well, okay... a few glue-stix), so can't hurt to try. :-//



That Hemera direct-drive is tasty looking... but I was never a huge fan of the V6.  :P

My biggest gripe with it was always the goofy collar mount, which the Hemera doubles down on their "special mounts for special people" stupidity by making the stepper motor a special part with T-slots buit-in. You'll need to buy/build/print an adapter, or buy a roller backplate to fit the thing to your E3. KA-CHING!

Aside from that, and the ridiculous price, I like that it's all CNC... but you'd think for that kind of money you'd get some ready-to-use-ness... and you don't. You still have to figure out your own layer cooling and heat-brake cooling solution yourself. Seriously E3D... not even the heat-brake fan is included for that price...?  |O

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1086958;image)

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001525240599.html

https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20201011074350&SearchText=bondtech+extruder

I like the BMG direct-drive extruder; it uses standard parts... except the cloners have produced a nice CNC version for 1/2 the price. And it's not very 'fang-friendly due to tension lever placement.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1086954;image)

https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20201011072619&SearchText=Titan+direct

Then of course there's the clone Titan direct-drive extruder, which can be had for ~$50 plus you figure out the mounting. I've toyed with that one for a while myself, but it is only single-side drive on the filament and... *head explodes*

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=818235;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 11, 2020, 04:00:06 pm
BMG Extruder Mosquito is very very sexy indeed.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 11, 2020, 06:03:52 pm
Yup. Only problem with it is single-side filament drive. Seems with the current crop of clones you can have gear-reduction for more torque or dual-cog filament drive, but not both. Brain fart; I was thinking of the Titan geometry. The BMG Mosquito extruder is both dual cog and 3:1 reduction. |O


I dunno... perhaps my Diggro needs the enhanced torque when stepping up to the 'fang, even if I don't want to print faster.  ???

My red dual-cog extruder has smaller, hardened pinions... maybe the increased torque from that will be adequate. :-//

mnem
*fulminating at the mind again*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 11, 2020, 07:37:03 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1087132;image)

If it actually makes a difference, I'll build something a little less tinder-ish. Back to basics; control the environment, control the process.

mnem
Or lose your mind trying...  :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 11, 2020, 09:42:23 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1087176;image)

Welp, that didn't take long to crash & burn. :-\

mnem
Time to drop back & punt...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 12, 2020, 03:58:43 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1087270;image)

Red dual-cog extruder fault-fixed (came with wrong hardware, idler lever/cog required realignment with hand-made shims  :rant:) and installed; it was exactly as much of a PITA as I expected. Extrusion is smooth and positive, and nary a tick in all testing, even with layer fan at 80%.  :-+

A quick check of extrusion travel shows it to be under-extruding by approx 35%; this fits with my measurements of the cog being approx 40% smaller. Noice! A 35% increase in torque may be all that's needed!

However, one of the weak points in my Diggro is no CONTROL menu (and no 128x64 emulation either), so no ESTEPS via front panel; it has to be done by consoling in with my laptop.  |O

That is a misery for another day. ;)

mnem
*toddles off to ded*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 12, 2020, 06:02:56 am
so no ESTEPS via front panel; it has to be done by consoling in with my laptop.  |O

Why they do not serial comm interface as standard from the front panel in all 3D printer? I do not understand why.
EDIT: Maybe typing with a push and rotate pot is not the best.
Keep up mnem!

For the mechanical guys here, is this coupler:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1087322;image)

bad for D shape shafts? It is rated for 280Ncm I will use it at 46Ncm max. It should be okay even if I do not have an O shaft.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 12, 2020, 11:42:51 am
That's the same coupler I'm using (you can see it in the pic).

Recent print is a tank for the scene I'm modelling now on my model RR. It's for a fire suppression system for the oil storage tanks. It's going to connect to the end of the pipe in the attached scene picture (pipes will be painted red too). Still needs to be sanded a bit and painted.

No recent mods to report here. Might install Marlin 2.0.7.1 if I get bored.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 12, 2020, 05:29:42 pm
so no ESTEPS via front panel; it has to be done by consoling in with my laptop.  |O

Why they do not serial comm interface as standard from the front panel in all 3D printer? I do not understand why. EDIT: Maybe typing with a push and rotate pot is not the best. Keep up mnem!

For the mechanical guys here, is this coupler:   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1087322;image)   bad for D shape shafts? It is rated for 280Ncm I will use it at 46Ncm max. It should be okay even if I do not have an O shaft.

That is a drive motor coupler meant for noise reduction on spinny things, NOT meant for steppers.

Unless you design your linear actuator with separate thrust bearings (most 3DP do not because:cost), that is not a good choice. Sometimes you can get away with it if the thrust load ONLY puts the coupler in compression; however 3DP will put load on the coupler on both compression and tensile planes, even on the Z-axis.

To work properly, stepper motors on a 3DP usually need a coupler with a one-piece body; repeat accuracy goes out to lunch on designs where the halves can move in the same axis as the load is applied. Remember, steppers apply load in torsional plane AND longitudinally on the leadscrew axis; that coupler is only meant for torsional loads 90° from the leadscrew axis.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1087818;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1087822;image)

There's a reason CReality spent the money on these custom-designed couplers instead of using the common dime-a-dozen spiral-cut ones. ;)

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 12, 2020, 09:09:44 pm
There's a reason CReality spent the money on these custom-designed couplers instead of using the common dime-a-dozen spiral-cut ones. ;)

The reason is they are cheaper than the others.  :-DD
Searching on the www is seems either you have people who love those flex coupler or people that hate them.
I think it is good to have some flex coupler available to test them out in case you want or need to.
I will make my own tests.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jay_Diddy_B on October 12, 2020, 09:45:07 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1085492;image)   More Frustion360   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image).

mnem
I'm gonna go put ice on my junk now.

Mnem,

I think you may get better cooling, less resistance to airflow if you have a smaller number of wider slots. In products I have designed, I would make the slots as wide as the safety regulations would allow. This may also help with 3D printing.

Would you share your STL or F3D file? I would be happy to try the first few layers of this design on my 3D printer.

What filament material are you using?

Regards,
Jay_Diddy_B
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 13, 2020, 12:02:19 am
There's a reason CReality spent the money on these custom-designed couplers instead of using the common dime-a-dozen spiral-cut ones. ;)

The reason is they are cheaper than the others.  :-DD
Searching on the www is seems either you have people who love those flex coupler or people that hate them.
I think it is good to have some flex coupler available to test them out in case you want or need to.
I will make my own tests.

No, it's because these couplers are rigid or semi-rigid in the tensile/compression plane, so they are somewhat precise against thrust load, which means the designers can omit thrust bearings in their linear actuator design. THAT is cheaper by far than a $2 coupler vs the 50c spiral-cut ones. A properly designed linear actuator's leadscrew has its own thrust bearings independent of the motor; this is one of the first things that went by the wayside in the China-direct MFG race to the bottom in this arena.

The spiral cut couplers are essentially springs with no rigidity in thrust loading, and THEY are the cheap AF ones. Like 3/$5 delivered to the end-user. They are intended for applications where there is no thrust loading, but they are also the cheapest you can get, so that's what winds up on cheap 3DP.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 13, 2020, 12:17:52 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1085492;image)   More Frustion360   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image).

mnem
I'm gonna go put ice on my junk now.

Mnem,

I think you may get better cooling, less resistance to airflow if you have a smaller number of wider slots. In products I have designed, I would make the slots as wide as the safety regulations would allow. This may also help with 3D printing.

Would you share your STL or F3D file? I would be happy to try the first few layers of this design on my 3D printer.

What filament material are you using?

Regards,
Jay_Diddy_B

There's plenty of open cross-section; calculated area is nearly 2X that of the vents directly behind the grill and that of the fan in the back. If anything, I want a little resistance here; this thing has a jet engine inside and needs muffling at both ends.

The (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image) came from first, beating Frustion360 into submission on 2 different designs, and then printing problems with my 3DP... I don't think the design is at fault here; I can't even get the little fuckwidget to print a cal cube. ;)

I'm seriously considering just putting the whole hotend back to stock... I'm 98% positive that will work fine. It just drives me nuts that everybody and his grandmomma can get the 'fang to work, but it just keeps kicking me in the junk.

I'm using PLA. Right now, I've started moving the 'fang up 1mm at a time to see if I can find some middle ground where it still works but doesn't freeze out the nozzle.

mnem
 |O

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 13, 2020, 02:03:35 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1085056;image)

Okay... so right now, I have the 'fang slid up higher than I've ever had it... so that approx 1mm (maybe less) of the vent opening is below the heatblock/sock. I have turned the layer fan down to 50% max, 30% regular, hotend at 205° first layer/250° after, and I just set flow control to 90% in Cura because of excess squish/extrusion around the lettering in the front.

Last test was 240°, and I JUST got some layer adhesion.  :palm:

mnem
 |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 13, 2020, 04:13:35 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1088290;image)

Time to drop back & punt...

After talking with some folks with better knowledge, I've come to the contusion that this 'fang... as popular as it may be... just doesn't put the air where it should be; it puts too much right at the nozzle, which fact appears to be the cause of my misery.

So, I've added some sheet metal deflectors to stop air from going where it shouldn't; I discovered while poking around under the thing that the heat-sink fan dumps a lot of air right on top of the heatblock, so I made a shield to go under the heat-sink. That actually did help a fair bit, but still running crazy hot just to get even a little extrusion, so blobby fugly everything where it used to be pretty clean on the first few layers.

Now I'm trying another shield extension around the nozzle to see if it helps. If still no joy, I think I'm just going to put it all back to stock and stuff the bitch in a box. That should shut it up.  :-DD

mnem
All this assache just to get away from some fuggin' noisy-ass fans... |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 13, 2020, 05:56:52 pm
Okies... something positive here. The above mods, along with dropping the layer fan speeds to 25% and 30%, has resulted in decent layer adhesion at 230°. Only get an occasional pop back from the extruder drive, indicating backpressure is still pretty high, but at least it is printing well enough I'm inclined to let it try and finish.

mnem
*toes, wings, tail & claws crossed for luck*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 13, 2020, 06:12:11 pm
Nope... turned to shit minutes later. Constant pop-clink from the extruder, shit adhesion. Couldn't get it to start extruding again even by turning the layer fan off, so something is fucking goofy with this hotend too.

Fuck this noize. I need to get something WORKING here.   :palm:

mnem
POS * ANOTHER POS = POS2. |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 13, 2020, 06:28:04 pm
Now do you want to go down the rabbit hole further or wait until the Kickstarter Gods will provide you a "solution"?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 13, 2020, 07:43:28 pm
For the Marlin experts  8)

are there two files

Code: [Select]
Configuration.h
Configuration_adv.h

structurally always the same in the 2.xxx marlin versions?

Example: upgrading from version 2.061 to 2.071 can I just overwrite the two ones provided from the remote branch in github?
In other words I want to upgrade the Marlin FW not my printer settings...

Many thanks in advance.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 13, 2020, 09:17:11 pm
They aren't necessarily the exact same file each time. Sometimes they add definitions for the latest version for new features, and so if you compile it may not succeed.

Also there is a check in the file to prevent you from trying to do that. You can change it as I did once and it might compile (it did for me), but it might not like it either.

From configuration.h Marlin version 2.0.5.3 -

#define CONFIGURATION_H_VERSION 020005

and from configuration.h Marlin version 2.0.6.1 -

#define CONFIGURATION_H_VERSION 020006

I always now just compare the files and transfer my settings into the other file, leaving the new parts they put in there alone.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 14, 2020, 12:55:53 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1088718;image)

So... went back to OEM, aside from the dual-drive extruder. We'll see...

mnem
*punt*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 14, 2020, 05:05:42 am
I always now just compare the files and transfer my settings into the other file, leaving the new parts they put in there alone.

Thx.
Now the next question is why git merge does not do his job properly? When I merge my local branch with the new one from github my .h config are wiped out without even asking.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 14, 2020, 05:06:23 am
So... went back to OEM, aside from the dual-drive extruder. We'll see...

Your story make me worried to upgrade to mosquito.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on October 14, 2020, 03:15:30 pm
I always now just compare the files and transfer my settings into the other file, leaving the new parts they put in there alone.

Thx.
Now the next question is why git merge does not do his job properly? When I merge my local branch with the new one from github my .h config are wiped out without even asking.

Did you have an actual branch with commits, or just a dirty tree?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 14, 2020, 08:11:19 pm
So... after going back to stock, putting everything exactly the same as the last time it worked right... it STILL kept (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image) because FUCK YOU mnem!!!

Tried a different fan... still (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image). I tried relocating the fan so it blew less on the nozzle... (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image) I tried a third roll of filament... (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=975972;image)

So I went back through all the pics in here from when it was printing awesome... and I finally realized what was different.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1089374;image)

This little bastard stainless steel nozzle(s). I'd swapped one in thinking my original brass one was clogged. When I rebuilt with the MicroSwiss, I put this nozzle on it because it was one of the ones that came with it. So I reinstalled my old brass nozzle, did a cold pull to clean it (you can see it came nicely clean above), and...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1089378;image)

BAM...! Got this result at 210° without even re-cal-ing my E-STEPS.  ::)

Jeezus H Christ a-hoppin on a pogo stick... what a clusterfuck. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1021934;image)

Now... do I just enjoy the damn thing, or go to the hassle of rebuilding it with the 'fang again...? :o

Mmmmhmmm.... I have oodles of parts I wanna make right now. I think I'll tempt fate another time, when I'm not trying to get something else done...

mnem
"Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."  ~grand-momma
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 14, 2020, 09:13:30 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1089454;image)

Please everyone... a little prayer for my sanity...

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=980930;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 14, 2020, 09:32:18 pm
I was going to suggest a nozzle issue the other day but I figured it would insult your intelligence and that you'd already checked it out.  :-//

Glad you found it though.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: SilverSolder on October 14, 2020, 10:02:21 pm
So... after going back to stock, putting everything exactly the same as the last time it worked right... it STILL kept (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image) because FUCK YOU mnem!!!

Tried a different fan... still (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image). I tried relocating the fan so it blew less on the nozzle... (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image) I tried a third roll of filament... (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=975972;image)

So I went back through all the pics in here from when it was printing awesome... and I finally realized what was different.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1089374;image)

This little bastard stainless steel nozzle(s). I'd swapped one in thinking my original brass one was clogged. When I rebuilt with the MicroSwiss, I put this nozzle on it because it was one of the ones that came with it. So I reinstalled my old brass nozzle, did a cold pull to clean it (you can see it came nicely clean above), and...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1089378;image)

BAM...! Got this result at 210° without even re-cal-ing my E-STEPS.  ::)

Jeezus H Christ a-hoppin on a pogo stick... what a clusterfuck. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1021934;image)

Now... do I just enjoy the damn thing, or go to the hassle of rebuilding it with the 'fang again...? :o

Mmmmhmmm.... I have oodles of parts I wanna make right now. I think I'll tempt fate another time, when I'm not trying to get something else done...

mnem
"Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof."  ~grand-momma

That's interesting.  S/S is a lot worse heat conductor than brass -  probably the problem?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 14, 2020, 10:46:44 pm
I dunno. Seems to me if it sucked that hard, why would anybody ever make a nozzle out of it? Also; a awful lot of SS cookware out there.

Much more likely a user error of some sort; either doesn't belong in this application or I didn't build the hotend right for that nozzle.  :-//

mnem
 :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 14, 2020, 10:50:27 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1089544;image)

Nooooooooooo!

This thing has been (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image) for a week now... but at least this is a different kind of kicking. Maybe I have some small measure of hope here... LOL

mnem
 |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 15, 2020, 04:41:19 am
I was going to suggest a nozzle issue the other day but I figured it would insult your intelligence and that you'd already checked it out.  :-//

Glad you found it though.

Wouldn't have helped a damned bit. I'd have just put another new SS nozzle on there... in fact I did... and still been clueless.  :-DD

And you can't insult my intelligence; I know I know barely enough to guess at how little I know.  :o


mnem
Fuck, I'm lucky if I can tie my shoes without getting lost on the way back up.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 15, 2020, 04:45:06 am
[01:21]  [19%].

mnem
say no more.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on October 15, 2020, 04:46:45 am
Steel nozzles do need higher temperatures and even more care with cooling fans, and can be troublesome. Generally if you're only printing plain PLA, PETG, and styrenes (ABS, ASA, HIPS..), bare brass is easiest. So far I've stuck to brass and not used stainless, hardened, or plated nozzles and been happy.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 15, 2020, 06:46:33 am
Thx.
Now the next question is why git merge does not do his job properly? When I merge my local branch with the new one from github my .h config are wiped out without even asking.

Did you have an actual branch with commits, or just a dirty tree?

I got local the Marlin 2061 and set up a git local branch with a few commits. Then I tried to merge the remote Marlin 2.xxx with my local branch and puffff all the .h blowing in the wind (like the answer my friend is blowing in the wind  :-DD).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 15, 2020, 06:56:05 am
This little bastard stainless steel nozzle(s). I'd swapped one in thinking my original brass one was clogged. When I rebuilt with the MicroSwiss, I put this nozzle on it because it was one of the ones that came

My take away: 3D Printing is always a patience game, part of the much bigger Humans vs Machines war.
Machines win only if we give up.

(https://media.giphy.com/media/6WyINXd0MM5GqWicnj/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 15, 2020, 03:02:15 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1089998;image)

One thing my recent 1st layer adhesion issues have actually been a boon with: Yesterday I got through 4 iterations of the design because it printed just enough of the part to allow some test-fitting before coming off the bed. Currently on rev4.1...

mnem
 :P
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 16, 2020, 03:08:53 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1090360;image)

Some progress... and ~$1.50 worth of filament wasted. A clone build-tak that came with a spool of filament resolved my adhesion issues, as well as giving a nice sandstone finish to the front of the piece. However, after successfully printing a nosepiece, I found it had a couple fitment errors that required some severe modification to the design. While I beat Frustion360 into submission, I set the printer to work on another tailpiece.

In the morning, I'll see how my new design behaves.

If only I'd noticed that my design was ~8mm too short to fit while I had all those truncated bits in my hand...

mnem
:=\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 16, 2020, 02:26:32 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1090562;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1090566;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1090570;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1090574;image)

It sure is nice when the iterative part of Iterative Design actually works.  :-DD

While trimming up this tailpiece, I was struck with an idea for an all-new design which might actually do some muffler-ey action. Currently printing up a new nosepiece; now on Rev5.1.

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1090558;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: SilverSolder on October 16, 2020, 03:06:11 pm

You realize you could have probably carved that part out of alabaster with a knife, by now?  :D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 16, 2020, 04:53:13 pm
You realize you could have probably carved that part out of alabaster with a knife, by now?  :D
Not 6 copies of 2 pieces (plus a dozen revisions) I couldn't.  ;)

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 17, 2020, 03:37:00 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1091092;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1091104;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1091108;image)  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1091124;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1091128;image)   

Sound level is noticeably decreased with both endpieces... but I am still working on a new tailpiece design which is more similar in style to the nosepiece. Hopefully it will also be a bit mo quiet-ahh.

mnem
 :bullshit:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 17, 2020, 12:51:19 pm
So for an exciting start to the day, I downloaded and compiled Marlin 2.0.7.2 (yesterday the available file was 2.0.7.1). I did a compare between my configs for 2.0.6.1 and the new versions. I changed the appropriate parameters from my previous configs. I performed a mesh bed levelling, did a couple of test prints, and all was well.

There were not a whole lot of differences this time, but always a few. For example (if anyone is interested) they changed the PID portion a little bit as you can see below. In the new file they show an example of a list of PID parameters if you are using more than one hotend, and removed several different settings for some printer models. In the new file there is simply the PID parameters for the printer you are using (whatever it is). The PID parameters you see are for my Creality Ender-3 printer from running a PID tune, not the ones that came with the file.  :)

OLD (2.0.6.1)

#if ENABLED(PIDTEMP)
  #define PID_EDIT_MENU         // Add PID editing to the "Advanced Settings" menu. (~700 bytes of PROGMEM)
  #define PID_AUTOTUNE_MENU     // Add PID auto-tuning to the "Advanced Settings" menu. (~250 bytes of PROGMEM)
  //#define PID_PARAMS_PER_HOTEND // Uses separate PID parameters for each extruder (useful for mismatched extruders)
                                  // Set/get with gcode: M301 E[extruder number, 0-2]

  // If you are using a pre-configured hotend then you can use one of the value sets by uncommenting it

// Creality Ender-3                           
  #define DEFAULT_Kp 23.75
  #define DEFAULT_Ki 1.76
  #define DEFAULT_Kd 79.96                     

  // Ultimaker
  //#define DEFAULT_Kp 22.2
  //#define DEFAULT_Ki 1.08
  //#define DEFAULT_Kd 114

  // MakerGear
  //#define DEFAULT_Kp 7.0
  //#define DEFAULT_Ki 0.1
  //#define DEFAULT_Kd 12

  // Mendel Parts V9 on 12V
  //#define DEFAULT_Kp 63.0
  //#define DEFAULT_Ki 2.25
  //#define DEFAULT_Kd 440

#endif // PIDTEMP

NEW (2.0.7.2)

#if ENABLED(PIDTEMP)
  #define PID_EDIT_MENU         // Add PID editing to the "Advanced Settings" menu. (~700 bytes of PROGMEM)
  #define PID_AUTOTUNE_MENU     // Add PID auto-tuning to the "Advanced Settings" menu. (~250 bytes of PROGMEM)
  //#define PID_PARAMS_PER_HOTEND // Uses separate PID parameters for each extruder (useful for mismatched extruders)
                                  // Set/get with gcode: M301 E[extruder number, 0-2]

  #if ENABLED(PID_PARAMS_PER_HOTEND)
    // Specify between 1 and HOTENDS values per array.
    // If fewer than EXTRUDER values are provided, the last element will be repeated.
    #define DEFAULT_Kp_LIST {  22.20,  22.20 }
    #define DEFAULT_Ki_LIST {   1.08,   1.08 }
    #define DEFAULT_Kd_LIST { 114.00, 114.00 }
  #else
       
    #define DEFAULT_Kp  23.75
    #define DEFAULT_Ki   1.76
    #define DEFAULT_Kd 79.96
  #endif
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 17, 2020, 01:10:42 pm
My balls still ache.:-DD

mnem
that is all.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 17, 2020, 01:13:52 pm
Oh now, come on try it - nothing can go wrong.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on October 17, 2020, 05:51:12 pm
I dunno. Seems to me if it sucked that hard, why would anybody ever make a nozzle out of it? Also; a awful lot of SS cookware out there.

Much more likely a user error of some sort; either doesn't belong in this application or I didn't build the hotend right for that nozzle.  :-//

mnem
 :palm:
Stainless nozzles are intended for filled filaments. Carbon or metal filled filament will wear out your brass nozzles in no time because the fill material is much harder than the nozzle. The different thermal properties of brass and stainless mean some engineering is required to keep filament temperature and pressure where they need to be. Hot ends and nozzles seem deceptively simple but building good ones is far from a trivial task.

Decent stainless cookware will have an aluminium or copper disc integrated into the bottom. This disc will spread the heat much more evenly to prevent hotspots, while still retaining the hygienic benefits and durability of stainless cookware. Cast iron pots and pans brute force the issue by having a large mass and therefore thermal mass, evening out the temperature and dampening thermal differences.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 18, 2020, 12:03:03 am
I dunno. Seems to me if it sucked that hard, why would anybody ever make a nozzle out of it? Also; a awful lot of SS cookware out there.

Much more likely a user error of some sort; either doesn't belong in this application or I didn't build the hotend right for that nozzle.  :-//

mnem
 :palm:
Stainless nozzles are intended for filled filaments. Carbon or metal filled filament will wear out your brass nozzles in no time because the fill material is much harder than the nozzle. The different thermal properties of brass and stainless mean some engineering is required to keep filament temperature and pressure where they need to be. Hot ends and nozzles seem deceptively simple but building good ones is far from a trivial task.

Decent stainless cookware will have an aluminium or copper disc integrated into the bottom. This disc will spread the heat much more evenly to prevent hotspots, while still retaining the hygienic benefits and durability of stainless cookware. Cast iron pots and pans brute force the issue by having a large mass and therefore thermal mass, evening out the temperature and dampening thermal differences.

Yeah; I knew the latter; and for the same reason, SS can be one of the more frustrating materials to weld. I discovered the former after doing some research once I figured out the problem.  :palm:

Still doesn't seem it should be able to make that much trouble; there's a lot of heat applied and a lot of covalent area with the threads compared to the total mass of SS. Bottom line is I used 'em cuz they came with one of my parts kits; now I know better.  :-//

mnem
That's okay... they'll make good mini-flamethrower nozzles. ;)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 18, 2020, 12:05:36 am
Oh now, come on try it - nothing can go wrong.  :-DD

Iterative Design called for you... s/he sez "lick me." >:D

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1091838;image)

mnem
(https://i.imgur.com/w0es9O4.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Ed.Kloonk on October 18, 2020, 09:44:59 am
You may have seen this, if so, sorry.

Build a house to put your 3D printer in!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIVl3gmswhM (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIVl3gmswhM)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 18, 2020, 11:40:58 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1092372;image)

Now that my Diggro Alpha is actually a 3DP again and not just a (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image) machine, it's been running pretty close to nonstop for days now. *knock on wood*

The nosepieces were the ball-buster; once I got to actually printing, I was still fighting layer adhesion issues. But those first three partial prints still allowed me to revise text location and resize the LED opening to allow for squish; I actually managed 3 revisions in one afternoon before the successful (but too short by 10mm) print in the back. I'm going to take the piss on that one and blame the preceding week of testicular torment for me not noticing that it was too small in the Z axis until I had the actual part in my hand.  :palm:

That said... the nosepieces take ~7.5 hours each; so those 3 failed prints and one bonehead fail all in one afternoon actually saved me more than a day and ~$6 wasted filament.  :-// After that, the two on the right came out exactly how I wanted them.  :-+

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1092376;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1092380;image)

Here you can see my progression in designing the tailpiece; the first version in back suffered some cosmetic bunge due to orientation, and it didn't actually muffle anything at all. But having it in hand DID give me the idea for what would become the final product; that channel on the bottom was originally added as an afterthought, but after chopping the ass off the piece in Fusion, what remained became an actual muffler that works.

The part on the left was the first version of the successful part; I did some cosmetic refinement (mostly reworking the fillets so they match the nosepieces and adding a tube for the LED mount) in the part on the right but the biggest improvement came from just reorienting the piece. I originally printed it foot down, figuring that would work better for the filament bridging necessary to make the slots in the muffler, and I was concerned that the support material might pull the slots apart. The bridging in the slots turned out a bit stringy, but the supports did behave. Most noticeably, the ceiling area inside the part had lots of nasty stringing, plus the finish pattern in the top is really obtrusive.

The part on the right is mostly just reoriented to print on the butt of the piece; this greatly improved the quality of the slots, making straight bridging and clean slats which are only a few lines wide with excellent layer adhesion. More importantly, the ceiling became a sidewall in the print, so no stringing... and the ugly pattern that was on the top gets nicely massaged away by the sandstone finish of the Build-Tak. Best of all, the new design and this orientation makes what was a 11.5 hour print now a 5.5 hour print.  :-+

So at this point... it's just a matter of making 6 copies of the two pieces, and doing the modding of the actual PSUs. Nice, boring fiddly-bits work.  ;D

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 19, 2020, 03:14:02 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1092466;image)

Low Tech Hi-Tek solution to printer monitoring: as in "I have this baby-cam lying around to watch the kids in the back yard; might as well sic it on my 3DP when I go to bed with a print job running."

Yeah, I know... wooden table, cardboard enclosure...  I totes need to get it up on a paving stone like my old one for safety's sake. And build a proper enclosure. At least I did put a smoke defector in there with it. :o

mnem
*toddles off to ded*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 20, 2020, 04:40:20 pm
From the SAVE MY ASS!!! Dept...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1093854;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1093858;image)   

Had the opportunity to test the "Power Failure Print Recovery" feature in Marlin 1.9.x this morning; power went out at ~5AM for a couple hours, and this print was at approx 90%. That little booger and a single-layer-height line of overextrusion from printing to a fully-cooled part was the only evidence of any misdoing. Cleaned up, a very usable part; though some repeating blebs around the corners show that I do need to clean and tighten the X-Y tracks/rollers after running it pretty much nonstop for 4 days.

Well done, Diggro.  :clap:

mnem
*off to engage in that illusion known as lunchtime*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 21, 2020, 02:12:52 pm
"Power Failure Print Recovery"

Can't use it, I have happly deactivated the SD support on my Ender 5. Now I have finally plenty of nvm memory to play with other Marlin features.
Unfortunately the Linear Advance is not supported on my Melzi boad.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 21, 2020, 02:20:41 pm
So for an exciting start to the day, I downloaded and compiled Marlin 2.0.7.2

I am running also the 2.0.7.2, and I have activated the PID Bed jazz, works no problem.

Now the pain in the ass is the raspi 3B+ which loose the serial connection over USB about once every 3 days.
No suprises here, I had no hope on the rasp devil berry to run stable. This last octoprint experience proves my point.

What to do now? Oh I know: in FreeBSD we trust.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on October 21, 2020, 04:28:38 pm
Now the pain in the ass is the raspi 3B+ which loose the serial connection over USB about once every 3 days.
That is a hardware problem; the Qualcomm Broadcom USB hardware implementation can occasionally forget USB packets in certain situations, which should never happen if it actually followed the standard.  Basically, if one is using a Raspberry Pi, all USBy communications are based on "perhaps I work, perhaps I don't".  They've done a lot of software fiddling to make it as rare as possible, but it's just lipstick on a pig IMO.

What to do now? Oh I know: in FreeBSD we trust.
Nah, just switch to a better SBC that is supported in mainline Linux.  (I mean, ARM is Tier-2 on FreeBSD (https://www.freebsd.org/platforms/arm.html), but primary tier on Linux.)
For example, a $20 La Frite (1GB RAM, AML-S805X-AC) with a $15 (8MB) or $20 (16MB) EMMC 5.x module (for OS) runs upstream Debian ARM port and a vanilla upstream kernel without vendor-specific patches.

Want moar power, ~ twice as much as R'Pi 4, for twice the price? Odroid N2+ (https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-n2-with-4gbyte-ram-2/), also running mainline kernels (https://www.armbian.com/odroid-n2/).  (Hardkernel does have their own kernel dev tree at github (https://github.com/hardkernel/linux) they promise to maintain till Jan 23, 2023.)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 21, 2020, 07:16:07 pm
I'm gonna step back here and say that aside from the power outage... which my Diggro did handle pretty much in stride... it has been running pretty much nonstop for 5 days now. I do believe it feels it has something to prove. ;)

mnem
Or maybe it saw me looking for ewaste recyclers online...  :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on October 21, 2020, 07:26:57 pm
Diggro no aggro, eh?

Pat, pat.  Good Diggro.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 21, 2020, 07:32:28 pm
Pretty much. My balls still ache from the full week of (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image) prior tho.  :-DD

mnem
Happy Halloween.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1094692;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 22, 2020, 07:09:32 am
That is a hardware problem; the Qualcomm USB can occasionally forget USB packets in certain situations, which should never happen if it actually followed the standard.  Basically, if one is using a Raspberry Pi, all USBy communications are based on "perhaps I work, perhaps I don't".  They've done a lot of software fiddling to make it as rare as possible, but it's just lipstick on a pig IMO.

I would like to squeeze all the rasp devil developers and let them fall free out the window.
Monkeys.

Nah, just switch to a better SBC that is supported in mainline Linux.

I have a  BeagleBone (https://www.element14.com/community/community/design-challenges/musictech/blog/2016/03/16/controlling-your-3d-printer-with-beaglebone-and-octoprint) under my bench doing  nothing. I still think that a FreeBSD Lenovo would be rock solid, BUT I am curious cat: I will give it the Beaglebone a chance.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on October 22, 2020, 07:35:02 am
I have a  BeagleBone (https://www.element14.com/community/community/design-challenges/musictech/blog/2016/03/16/controlling-your-3d-printer-with-beaglebone-and-octoprint) under my bench doing  nothing. I still think that a FreeBSD Lenovo would be rock solid, BUT I am curious cat: I will give it the Beaglebone a chance.
I might, too, if I had a BB.  I know the Linux kernel is rock solid (and utterly ubiquitous in everywhere you wouldn't suspect, like TVs), but the userspace is increasingly giving me the heebie-jeebies nowadays – fragile as frick, wrought with single-point failure possibilities.  FreeBSD folks are more conservative, value stability over the latest fad, which makes for good basis for appliances.

Me, I do my appliance software sides from scratch (or from minimal Debian/Devuan up), but that's way more effort than most people have time or interest for.  For me, it's comfy old slippers stuff, not "work".
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 22, 2020, 01:36:44 pm
So... not a big fan of Java-coded Blu-Ray players, ehhhh?  :-DD  Only Sony would put that on the box like it was a feature...  ::)

My experience with the B-bone is nearly a decade old and at best mired in frustration. When it was first released it was hailed as the saviour of ArduPilot; the only way for the project to move forward. It (the ArduPilot project thereafter) was, and remains to this day, an unmitigated clusterfuck of competing visions and infighting.  :palm:

mnem
Old mother Hubbard
went to the cupboard
to get her poor doggie a bone.

But when she bent over
ol' Snoopy took over
and gave her a bone of his own...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on October 25, 2020, 03:11:21 am
Now the pain in the ass is the raspi 3B+ which loose the serial connection over USB about once every 3 days.
That is a hardware problem; the Qualcomm USB can occasionally forget USB packets in certain situations, which should never happen if it actually followed the standard.  Basically, if one is using a Raspberry Pi, all USBy communications are based on "perhaps I work, perhaps I don't".  They've done a lot of software fiddling to make it as rare as possible, but it's just lipstick on a pig IMO.

I like to crap on Qualcomm as much as the next guy, but the Pi is all Broadcom. Which is even worse.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on October 25, 2020, 12:23:33 pm
Now the pain in the ass is the raspi 3B+ which loose the serial connection over USB about once every 3 days.
That is a hardware problem; the Qualcomm USB can occasionally forget USB packets in certain situations, which should never happen if it actually followed the standard.  Basically, if one is using a Raspberry Pi, all USBy communications are based on "perhaps I work, perhaps I don't".  They've done a lot of software fiddling to make it as rare as possible, but it's just lipstick on a pig IMO.

I like to crap on Qualcomm as much as the next guy, but the Pi is all Broadcom. Which is even worse.
Crap, I mixed the two.  I was trying to say Broadcom, not Qualcomm.  >:( Must edit.   Thanks for the correction, Monkeh.

Edited to add:  In case anyone thinks this is just bashing a company or two for no reason, look up "GPL violation" and the company name.  GPL is not at all difficult to comply with.  It is not even a question of opening up your own source code; just stop using modified GPL code is enough.  In many cases, in appliances, there is often just a few small but important changes to GPL'd code that contains no trade secrets, just basic functionality stuff (usually horribly implemented) that would have been cheaper and faster to just do right and push upstream to the Linux kernel, and keep their Secret Sauce in the non-GPL userspace they write themselves.  Companies like Broadcom hate the idea of free/open source software for some reason, though, and cannot understand business models that leverage GPL software without violating the license.  :rant:

I'm still surprised Eben Upton even allows three or four Raspberry Pi Foundation members (James Hughes, Phil Elwell, Dave Stevenson) to submit an occasional patch to the Linux Kernel – although only Phil Elwell is listed as part of their 'team'.  Must irk Upton to no end, I'm guessing; he's a dedicated Broadcom employee.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 26, 2020, 09:14:21 am
Soo I took out the Beagle Bone: one USB, no WIFI on board. Mmmm 5 minutes later is was back in the box and parked under my bench again (with a lot of Raspi that I have to sell now).

Just installed FreeBSD on my old Lenovo, the more I learn FreeBSD the more I love it. It just works if you know what you are doing, as always anyway eh  :P.

PS: Next I will show off my upgraded printer. It starts to make a lot of fun.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 27, 2020, 12:11:33 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1097986;image)

I'm having fun with mine too.  :P Tiny Toothless is 28mm tall.

I decided to tinker with the Longer A30 profile in Cura... it has a 0.06mm ultrafine profile.  :o Here I've done no fine-tuning for this profile; same settings I use on the Ender 3 Pro Profile for most of my work.

mnem
};=)~~~~<
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on October 27, 2020, 01:29:44 am
To derail a bit further as I'm looking at SBCs this evening..

For example, a $20 La Frite (1GB RAM, AML-S805X-AC) with a $15 (8MB) or $20 (16MB) EMMC 5.x module (for OS) runs upstream Debian ARM port and a vanilla upstream kernel without vendor-specific patches.

I'm struggling very hard to find a reason to buy this board other than the price (which I admit, is nice).

There's almost no documentation. No good photos, no pinouts, the schematic doesn't match half the photos I've seen.. I'm looking at two boards which both claim to be the same revision but are substantially different.

It's also rather hard to buy. Amazon US (which doesn't carry that board anyway), and their own store: Which is hard to navigate and still carries a shipping delay banner from 9 months ago. Do they not want people to buy them?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 27, 2020, 06:43:10 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1097986;image)

I'm having fun with mine too.  :P Tiny Toothless is 28mm tall.

Nice beast, one day I will go below 0.2mm Z layer too, but first I have to design custom plates for the dual Z upgrade on my E5.
Oh the 0.9 steppers are coming today, ohhhh another upgrade.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on October 27, 2020, 12:39:07 pm
For example, a $20 La Frite (1GB RAM, AML-S805X-AC) with a $15 (8MB) or $20 (16MB) EMMC 5.x module (for OS) runs upstream Debian ARM port and a vanilla upstream kernel without vendor-specific patches.
I'm struggling very hard to find a reason to buy this board other than the price (which I admit, is nice).
The hardware is much better (reliable) than 'Pi, at the same price range.  That's why I used it as an example.  Libre Computer completely fucked up the Kickstarter, though; I was/am a backer.  Drived off a LOT of developers/users.  (Didn't get the EMMC, which was a mistake.)  You can find the pinouts in the schematics (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Dl3lLTs407OZ7HhPYjjlvDX2_FPfKHMr/view) and at the LoverPi forum (https://forum.loverpi.com/categories/libre-computer-aml-s805x-ac).  Or you can ask Libre Computer directly; they're absolutely not hostile, quite friendly, but .. neglectful.

Now that I think of it, they fucked up the Kickstarter much the way Mnementh described Creality fucking up theirs.  (Except Libre Computer didn't get it in retail any sooner, just completely botched the time estimates.)

At the core, it is a very straightforward Amlogic AML-S805X-AC board, so the support matrix at Linux-Meson (http://linux-meson.com/doku.php?id=start) fully applies.  GPIO Pinctrl, PWM, interrupts etc. are built in to the kernel.  For example, GPIO pins are accessible via the standard kernel /dev/gpiochipN character device(s).  So, technically, as long as you can find the Meson docs, you don't actually need any manufacturer specifics except for the schematic.  This was also a core point: you are not dependent on the manufacturer support or documentation of the various subsystems; you only need to know what they are, and the community has the rest, because the hardware itself is supported at the kernel level.

If you were to ask me, I'd recommend an Odroid (https://www.hardkernel.com/) instead.  (I have a HC1 and a C1+.)  They have much better documentation, and the user forums are quite active (as in, manufacturer answers questions and takes advice very actively; it's not just us users talking amongst each other).  The hardware hasn't failed me yet.  I am thinking of getting a HC4 (https://wiki.odroid.com/odroid-hc4/odroid-hc4) (to replace my HC1 as a firewall/server), but the price (USD $65 as of now) is higher than 'Pi.  The base C4 (https://www.hardkernel.com/shop/odroid-c4/) (USD $50) matches 'Pi 4 performance, has a rock solid Amlogic S905X3 (see Linux-Meson), and 47 GPIO pins supported in the vanilla kernels, in case you need those.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on October 27, 2020, 04:59:05 pm
For example, a $20 La Frite (1GB RAM, AML-S805X-AC) with a $15 (8MB) or $20 (16MB) EMMC 5.x module (for OS) runs upstream Debian ARM port and a vanilla upstream kernel without vendor-specific patches.
I'm struggling very hard to find a reason to buy this board other than the price (which I admit, is nice).
The hardware is much better (reliable) than 'Pi, at the same price range.  That's why I used it as an example.  Libre Computer completely fucked up the Kickstarter, though; I was/am a backer.  Drived off a LOT of developers/users.  (Didn't get the EMMC, which was a mistake.)  You can find the pinouts in the schematics (https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Dl3lLTs407OZ7HhPYjjlvDX2_FPfKHMr/view) and at the LoverPi forum (https://forum.loverpi.com/categories/libre-computer-aml-s805x-ac).  Or you can ask Libre Computer directly; they're absolutely not hostile, quite friendly, but .. neglectful.

Can't trust the schematic because it doesn't align with one of the two identically marked but blatantly different boards I can find pictures of.. :-//

Swing and a miss with those guys, sadly. Which is why the Pi is still going strong (despite being objectively a turd, it's a half way well documented turd one can easily buy). Odroid definitely much closer to the mark.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 27, 2020, 07:55:03 pm
New X/Y 0.9 stepperzz are here!

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1098522;image)

Now how to connect them to the ender5?

I was thinking to cut a JST-XH 4 pin 24AWG extension cable (5,50 Euro a pop  :scared:)

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/EY0AAOSwOFFdib4d/s-l1600.png)

for Lipos and solder the two ends, one to the motor one to the E5.

Please tell me there is a better solution.

EDIT: Yes there is
JST SM 4pin, much better IMHO cheaper and with mechanical secure latch.

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/higAAOSwa~BYSw2N/s-l1600.jpg)

eBay auction: #123184607756


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 28, 2020, 03:21:39 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1097986;image)

I'm having fun with mine too.  :P Tiny Toothless is 28mm tall.

Nice beast, one day I will go below 0.2mm Z layer too, but first I have to design custom plates for the dual Z upgrade on my E5.
Oh the 0.9 steppers are coming today, ohhhh another upgrade.

Thanks. Lots of Sharpie touchup, but he'll be a kewl custom token for Monopoly night.  ;D

I'll be honest... I didn't expect much after shrinking the model down to ~25% of original, then printing at that layer height. But the TMC2208 micro-steps evidently isn't all hooey even on a Single-Z, and if I'd remembered to turn ironing off would've been much better... that probably obliterated like the top 5 layers on his ears.  :palm:

mnem
 :=\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 28, 2020, 11:19:39 am
Been playing with an interesting plug-in for Octoprint called Arc Welder, read more here  -

Arc Welder (https://plugins.octoprint.org/plugins/arc_welder/)

"Arc Welder attempts to replace G0/G1 (linear move) GCodes with G2/G3 (arc move) GCodes. This can substantially compress many GCode files, and may reduce stuttering caused by sending many tiny movements in rapid succession over a slower serial connection. "

So far I've tested Arc Welder on several models and I can't detect any difference in their quality comparing prints before & after being processed, but the file has less commands and thus prints a little faster. I attached a screen shot of the Arc Welder processing report for one model I created for a project I'm working on - road transition between model railroad tracks.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 28, 2020, 12:38:35 pm
 :-+

mnem
(https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/coffee_L.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 28, 2020, 12:47:24 pm
Interesting but my spider senses are telling me that apart less gcode, as you said and touched with your hands, there will be no printing quality improvement.
...you still have a X and Y stepper not a new nozzle rotation stepper which is triggered by G2 G3.
stuttering? Go for dual Z or something mechanical. For mechanical sickness the best cure is always a mechanical therapy, not a SOFTware one.

Anyway related to that I deactivated G2/G3 Arc Support (https://marlinfw.org/docs/configuration/configuration.html#g2/g3-arc-support), it save memory on my tight ass melzi board and AFAIK no slicers SW support arc anyway.

Another intersting fact I read is that slicers eat only lines and points not arcs, so computing properly arc G-Code is a big PITA for the slicer software. I think on Firmware/Octoprint level is the same music.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 28, 2020, 12:59:44 pm
Oh I didn't have any stuttering at all (my machine  :) ), I just wanted to test it for the file size compression. As long as the model comes out the same it's good for me.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 28, 2020, 01:13:53 pm
How big is your mini train world multiple rooms or just one?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 28, 2020, 01:22:57 pm
How big is your mini train world multiple rooms or just one?

See pic (a slightly old picture).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 28, 2020, 01:44:43 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1098956;image)
Currently abusing myself with Frustion360; working on a insert to organize all my favorite drivers in this little SS box. In theory they should all go; in practice...(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=971254;image)

mnem
"The Devil is in the details."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on October 28, 2020, 02:16:38 pm
Added some signage which seemed appropriate.....

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1098974;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 28, 2020, 02:22:39 pm
Added some signage which seemed appropriate.....

LOL.

The wee people asked me "What's holding up their world?", and I told them "A turtle."

They asked "Well what holds up the turtle?"

I told them "Another turtle you nitwits!"

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 28, 2020, 04:20:36 pm
You just made the most concise, incisive analogy for religion I've seen in at least a decade.  :-DD

mnem
Well done. :clap:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 28, 2020, 04:43:27 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1099108;image)

Currently printing at 20% infill and 0.28 LH. It's like watching firehose laid down after printing Tiny Toothless. :-DD

Still a 17 hour print.  :palm:

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1099116;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 28, 2020, 05:26:57 pm
Currently printing at 20% infill and 0.28 LH. It's like watching firehose laid down after printing Tiny Toothless. :-DD

Still a 17 hour print.  :palm:

It looks like a menacing array of rocket launcher tubes.  :wtf:

All these road transitions were done in F360 as well as this last piece. But what I wanted to show is, sometimes the surface quality of 3D prints turns out to be useful in surprising ways.

I printed this one upside-down and had supports under the ramp (underneath the top slab it is cut out to save materials). I lightly sanded most of the part anyway so the surface would not be so smooth and so it would take paint better. Then I realized I had a cool effect that I didn't plan for, and exactly in the right place. It was caused by the print supports. I set out to sand it down more but realized I was looking at a desirable effect.

It looks just like those no-slip ridges put in concrete roads, and it ended up in the right place - the ramp! I stopped sanding that area because it looks perfect like that. I love these kind of surprises.  :clap:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 28, 2020, 09:11:43 pm
I am now with Octoprint on a shiny FreeBSD 12.1

https://community.octoprint.org/t/freebsd-12-1-guide-with-rc-d-script-to-start-octoprint-automatically-and-as-a-service/14316 (https://community.octoprint.org/t/freebsd-12-1-guide-with-rc-d-script-to-start-octoprint-automatically-and-as-a-service/14316)

https://community.octoprint.org/t/setting-up-octoprint-on-freenas-11-3-server-inside-iocage-jails/7440 (https://community.octoprint.org/t/setting-up-octoprint-on-freenas-11-3-server-inside-iocage-jails/7440)

even an idiot like me has done it!  :phew:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 29, 2020, 11:46:06 am
Temped now to go for KDE and setup a little FreeBSD Octoprint laptop station for my E5, the old Lenovo Yoga I am using has touch screen it could be a winner.

Maybe one day.

EDIT: I am very lucky (https://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-announce/2020-October/001993.html), just installed the 12.1  |O :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 29, 2020, 01:31:44 pm
After seeing this video, I just updated my Marlin firmware (to version 1.1.9.1) to enable Mesh Bed Leveling.

Sure but, look at here (https://marlinfw.org/docs/configuration/configuration.html#bed-leveling)

Quote
AUTO_BED_LEVELING_UBL (recommended) combines the features of 3-point, linear, bilinear, and mesh leveling. As with bilinear leveling, the mesh data generated by UBL is used to adjust Z height across the bed using bilinear interpolation. An LCD controller is currently required.
MESH_BED_LEVELING provides a custom G29 command to measure the bed height at several grid points using a piece of paper or feeler gauge. See G29 for MBL for the full procedure. This type of leveling is only compatible with PROBE_MANUALLY.

Moreover according to here (https://marlinfw.org/docs/features/auto_bed_leveling.html), the auto bed leveling can be used also in manual mode by activating the PROBE_MANUALLY.

I think as soon I get home I will activate AUTO_BED_LEVELING_UBL with PROBE_MANUALLY
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 29, 2020, 03:07:44 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1099108;image) Currently printing at 20% infill and 0.28 LH. It's like watching firehose laid down after printing Tiny Toothless.:-DD Still a 17 hour print.  :palm:

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1099116;image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1099808;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1099812;image)

Ehhh.... A mixed bag. I had misgivings when I previewed it in Cura; I could see I'd been a bit too aggressive with the the middle row of holes, and Cura exaggerated the gaps in the slicing process. But I REALLY wanted to get more of my favorite drivers in there, so I decided to see how it would work out.

Overall it's quite serviceable; I did get the 8 jeweler's drivers and the 6 large ones I most needed in there. A couple of the holes drag a little when putting/pulling a driver, and the divider with the smallest cross-section snapped out first time I put a driver in. We'll see how it continues to serve; I may have to revisit the design and shrink most of the holes in the center area so that all the other slots are properly supported.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 29, 2020, 04:05:51 pm
Well done, now you should stick a little dragon on the side.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 29, 2020, 04:31:11 pm
I think as soon I get home I will activate AUTO_BED_LEVELING_UBL with PROBE_MANUALLY

FUUU I do not have enough memory.....

EDIT: With Mesh Bed Leveling:

Code: [Select]
Linking .pio\build\melzi_optimized\firmware.elf
Building .pio\build\melzi_optimized\firmware.hex
Checking size .pio\build\melzi_optimized\firmware.elf
Advanced Memory Usage is available via "PlatformIO Home > Project Inspect"
RAM:   [==        ]  21.6% (used 3541 bytes from 16384 bytes)
Flash: [========= ]  88.2% (used 114682 bytes from 130048 bytes)
=============================================================================================================================================== [SUCCESS] Took 41.44 seconds ===============================================================================================================================================
Environment      Status    Duration
---------------  --------  ------------
melzi_optimized  SUCCESS   00:00:41.436

when I switch to AUTO_BED_LEVELING_UBL with PROBE_MANUALLY no go....  :-//  :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on October 29, 2020, 04:46:54 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1099808;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1099812;image)
I see you've never stuck your hand awkwardly in the cutlery basket of a dishwasher and had a fork tine stuck deep under a fingernail.

I will never, ever store my tools pointy bits up or towards myself; my coordination means it only becomes a miniature impalement device.

The scalpels in particular make my old wounds ache.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: SilverSolder on October 29, 2020, 05:14:29 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1099808;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1099812;image)
I see you've never stuck your hand awkwardly in the cutlery basket of a dishwasher and had a fork tine stuck deep under a fingernail.

I will never, ever store my tools pointy bits up or towards myself; my coordination means it only becomes a miniature impalement device.

The scalpels in particular make my old wounds ache.

Easy to see what the tools are, when stored like that.  -  I have mine lying flat in a tray, as a compromise!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on October 29, 2020, 05:45:31 pm

when I switch to AUTO_BED_LEVELING_UBL with PROBE_MANUALLY no go....  :-//  :o

You'll have to comment out other features, suggestions on the internets ...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 29, 2020, 10:44:02 pm
I know but >12% memory for that feature, no thanks I keep my MESH and done.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on October 29, 2020, 10:58:35 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1099808;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1099812;image)
I see you've never stuck your hand awkwardly in the cutlery basket of a dishwasher and had a fork tine stuck deep under a fingernail.

I will never, ever store my tools pointy bits up or towards myself; my coordination means it only becomes a miniature impalement device.

The scalpels in particular make my old wounds ache.

Easy to see what the tools are, when stored like that.  -  I have mine lying flat in a tray, as a compromise!
Sure; I can definitely see why having the bit end up is useful.  It is just my stabby-stabby sausage fingers that would impale themselves automagically.  (Although I have about a dozen visible scars on my hands, I still have all fingies and full mobility and no nerve damage.  Only by pure luck, though.)

That said, I do like having a simple thick shelf with holes, so you can drop the drivers from above through the hole, and see the pokey bit below the shelf.  For a desk holder, that'd make it shaped like a 9 or a c with a thicker top, though, and I don't know if it'd work as well.  The handles tend to weigh a bit, so a desk holder of that design would be terribly tippy.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr.B on October 30, 2020, 12:10:19 am
Is this an appropriate thread to throw out SLA 3D Printer questions, or should I start a new thread – SLA 3D Printer yet?

I have had about 3 years experience with FDM now, followed this thread since its inception, now wanting to print models with much more precision – although FDM will still have a place in my workshop.

I am very close to pulling the trigger on an ANYCUBIC Photon Mono X 3D Printer 4K 8.9 Inch LCD UV Resin Printer 192*120*250mm.

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 30, 2020, 12:33:10 pm
Is this an appropriate thread to throw out SLA 3D Printer questions, or should I start a new thread – SLA 3D Printer yet?

I have had about 3 years experience with FDM now, followed this thread since its inception, now wanting to print models with much more precision – although FDM will still have a place in my workshop.

I am very close to pulling the trigger on an ANYCUBIC Photon Mono X 3D Printer 4K 8.9 Inch LCD UV Resin Printer 192*120*250mm.

Thanks in advance.

Don't know I am not a SLA expert. Maybe a new thread with "SLA" in the title could attract the SLA experts in the evvblog.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 30, 2020, 01:10:14 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1099808;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1099812;image)
I see you've never stuck your hand awkwardly in the cutlery basket of a dishwasher and had a fork tine stuck deep under a fingernail.   I will never, ever store my tools pointy bits up or towards myself; my coordination means it only becomes a miniature impalement device.   The scalpels in particular make my old wounds ache.

I got tired of stabbing myself rummaging around in a drawer; this is my preferred solution. Besides, a little bloodletting is a good thing; lets you know you're alive. ;)

mnem
A machine isn't truly yours until it has tasted your blood. >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: SilverSolder on October 30, 2020, 02:49:27 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1099808;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1099812;image)
I see you've never stuck your hand awkwardly in the cutlery basket of a dishwasher and had a fork tine stuck deep under a fingernail.   I will never, ever store my tools pointy bits up or towards myself; my coordination means it only becomes a miniature impalement device.   The scalpels in particular make my old wounds ache.

I got tired of stabbing myself rummaging around in a drawer; this is my preferred solution. Besides, a little bloodletting is a good thing; lets you know you're alive. ;)

mnem
A machine isn't truly yours until it has tasted your blood. >:D

If you try hard enough, you can hurt yourself with any storage solution!  :D

Taking up as little space as possible is a worthy goal on a busy desktop.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on October 30, 2020, 09:45:40 pm
Is this an appropriate thread to throw out SLA 3D Printer questions, or should I start a new thread – SLA 3D Printer yet?

I have had about 3 years experience with FDM now, followed this thread since its inception, now wanting to print models with much more precision – although FDM will still have a place in my workshop.

I am very close to pulling the trigger on an ANYCUBIC Photon Mono X 3D Printer 4K 8.9 Inch LCD UV Resin Printer 192*120*250mm.

Thanks in advance.
I'm eyeing the Elegoo Saturn, but would like a suitably sized washing and curing station to be available. It's still a dicky process with one, but somewhat less so. If you ask me FDM and SLA printers functionally barely overlap. Both are rather different tools with different applications, strengths and weaknesses.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr.B on November 01, 2020, 01:22:54 am
...If you ask me FDM and SLA printers functionally barely overlap. Both are rather different tools with different applications, strengths and weaknesses.

Agreed.
I will start a new thread to solicit more detail and not pollute this one.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 01, 2020, 05:33:06 pm
FUUU I couldn't resist

New X motor, here (https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/nema-17-stepper-motor/nema-17-bipolar-0-9deg-36ncm-51oz-in-0-9a-5-4v-42x42x40mm-4-wires.html?mfp=149-step-angle%5B0.9%5D%2C148-bipolar-unipolar%5BBipolar%5D)

New Y motor, here (https://www.omc-stepperonline.com/nema-17-stepper-motor/Dual-Shaft-Nema-17-Bipolar-09deg-44Ncm-6248ozin-168A-28V-42x42x48mm-4-Wires.html?mfp=149-step-angle%5B0.9%5D%2C148-bipolar-unipolar%5BBipolar%5D%2C71-single-shaft-dual-shaft%5BDual%20Shaft%5D)

and .... installed!

doubled the steps for X and Y!

I also adjusted the reference voltage. An the silent creality board I found 1V for the small steppers (X-Z), and 1.2 V for the bigger one (Ex, Y).
With the new X stepper I set 1.4V, it's running a little more louder than the stock, warm but not hot to touch. I'm unsure If I leave it there, for now I call it done.
The new Y it's a beast, 1,6A so I cranked the Vref to 2,3V. It's running cold with no noise...

The ebay connectors pissed me off:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1101254;image)

I had to switch direction in the Marlin.

BTW I installed rails Hiwin on the X, Y. Before I tensioned the belt they were moving smooth like a hot knife in butter, after still a joy but the friction increased.
Would a belt tensioner like this  (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000127067311.html)improve the situation here?
Do you guys use them?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 01, 2020, 09:24:16 pm
You could have swapped the pin pairs around pretty easily. Is it friction or the normal cogging of the stepper motor?

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 02, 2020, 07:47:34 am
You could have swapped the pin pairs around pretty easily

But the flat cable would be become a cross cable and not so flat anymore. I tripled check everything and assumed the connectors color will stay the same...
Anyway not a big deal, it was just a single bit change in the FW.

Is it friction or the normal cogging of the stepper motor?

I think it is friction, see with the Hiwin the XY cars are sitting about 2-3 mm higher than before so this increase the belt tension a bit and make everything a little more stiky.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 03, 2020, 04:29:03 pm
No... I meant to swap all 4 at once; in other words, reverse the order on one end of the cable so the connector flips over. This is usually the cause of this kind of issue. I usually prefer to fix the hardware so it matches the default config; that way when upgrading FW, I don't have a hundred little changes to remember/figure out. I have a horrible memory. ;)


You mean there's excessive offset in the anchor points for the belts? If so, then you need to design/print new anchors that bring the anchor points inline/parallel with the transit of the belt off the roller.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1102384;image)

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 03, 2020, 07:33:48 pm
No... I meant to swap all 4 at once; in other words, reverse the order on one end of the cable so the connector flips over. This is usually the cause of this kind of issue. I usually prefer to fix the hardware so it matches the default config; that way when upgrading FW, I don't have a hundred little changes to remember/figure out. I have a horrible memory. ;)

Not so easy, the pins are asymmetric. It would not work. Regarding FW, I keep my config.h in the upgrade process, so no worries.

You mean there's excessive offset in the anchor points for the belts? If so, then you need to design/print new anchors that bring the anchor points inline/parallel with the transit of the belt off the roller.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1102384;image)
mnem
 :-/O

Bingo mnem, spot on. Exactly what I was thinking. These  (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3774993)could help, I hope.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 04, 2020, 12:16:56 am
No... I meant to swap all 4 at once; in other words, reverse the order on one end of the cable so the connector flips over. This is usually the cause of this kind of issue. I usually prefer to fix the hardware so it matches the default config; that way when upgrading FW, I don't have a hundred little changes to remember/figure out. I have a horrible memory. ;)

Not so easy, the pins are asymmetric. It would not work. Regarding FW, I keep my config.h in the upgrade process, so no worries.

You mean there's excessive offset in the anchor points for the belts? If so, then you need to design/print new anchors that bring the anchor points inline/parallel with the transit of the belt off the roller.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1102384;image)
mnem
 :-/O

Bingo mnem, spot on. Exactly what I was thinking. These  (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:3774993)could help, I hope.

Looks like the E5 is a box-frame Cartesian, not CoreXY... what did they do; use a stepper with 2 shafts on the Y-axis? Pretty much all of the printers with v-slot/roller actuation have built-in belt parallax issues. Because of the necessary gear ratio for direct-drive off of cheap NEMA-17 steppers, you can't use a cog big enough to bring the belt transit clear of the extrusion; and adding an idler cog to make it run flat is pretty much at odds with the fundamental intent of this type of design: low production cost prioritized over absolute precision.

Fixing that is easy. You disassemble all 4 pins from the housing; fix the little retainer clips if you crushed them getting the pins out. Then, hold the flat of the cable in one hand and twist the individual wire/pin one at a time so that the retaining clip faces 180° from original orientation. Now, reassemble with connector flipped over. ONLY do one end; you are fixing the fact that one end of the cable was flipped during assembly.

I get that you prefer to just fix it in the FW; I just wanted to make sure that you and those playing along at home know it is easy to fix either in hardware or software.
:-+

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 06, 2020, 12:17:34 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1103596;image)


It finally arrived; only 4 months late.  :palm:   I'm afraid to open the fucking box. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=693504;image)

mnem
No, still no word on when all my add-on accessories, which were supposedly the reason this printer was held back another 2 months, will ever ship. |O
Shockingly, after months and months of reading people asking where their add-ons were and when they would ship, my package came with them all inside.  :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 06, 2020, 12:27:40 am
Oh great - another horror story to follow!  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on November 06, 2020, 12:41:49 am
Tell me when he's about to open the box so I can get the popcorn ready.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 06, 2020, 03:41:19 am
While it wasn't the the "zipless fuck" experience of my first hands on with the Diggro, I did have it up & printing in less than a hour, including time spent fondling the included tools and extra bits.  >:D

I completed the assembly without issue and without once having to crack the manual or look at a vid. Worst problems were: Wrong IEC cable for North America (and consequently, PSU set to 230V), Defective 4mm Allen wrench, X-Axis loose as a goose on the beam, extruder jumper unplugged.

Shockingly, after months and months of reading people asking where their add-ons were and when they would ship, my package came with them all inside.  :-+

Today has been a long day; I'm up to my armpits in building one of those Arrow sheetmetal garden shed kits.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1103694;image)

CR-6SE is printing a little dragon/dinosaur gewgaw off the card. I'll post more pics of it and the tools and my extras sometime soon.

mnem
 :=\

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 06, 2020, 05:33:00 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1104018;image)

Heh. Slinki-T-Rex is actually quite appealing. Just flopping him back & forth & the clikkity sound he makes is viscerally pleasing. :-+

EDIT : And now he is no longer mine. The boi saw him and just HAD to have him... and now I have orders requests from all the fam for one of their own.  :palm:

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 07, 2020, 03:38:27 pm
FUUUUUUUUU

with the raspi:

Code: [Select]
2020-10-04 12:28:56,671 - octoprint.util.comm - ERROR - Unexpected error while reading from serial port
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/home/pi/oprint/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/octoprint/util/comm.py", line 2916, in _readline
    ret = self._serial.readline()
  File "/home/pi/oprint/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/octoprint/util/comm.py", line 5069, in readline
    c = self.read(1)
  File "/home/pi/oprint/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/serial/serialposix.py", line 501, in read
    'device reports readiness to read but returned no data '
SerialException: device reports readiness to read but returned no data (device disconnected or multiple access on port?)

with FreeBSD

Code: [Select]
2020-11-07 13:06:19,975 - octoprint.util.comm - ERROR - Unexpected error while reading from serial port
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/home/octoprint/OctoPrint/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/serial/serialposix.py", line 501, in read
    'device reports readiness to read but returned no data '
serial.serialutil.SerialException: device reports readiness to read but returned no data (device disconnected or multiple access on port?)

During handling of the above exception, another exception occurred:

Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/usr/home/octoprint/OctoPrint/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/octoprint/util/comm.py", line 2916, in _readline
    ret = self._serial.readline()
  File "/usr/home/octoprint/OctoPrint/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/octoprint/util/comm.py", line 5069, in readline
    c = self.read(1)
  File "/usr/home/octoprint/OctoPrint/venv/lib/python3.7/site-packages/serial/serialposix.py", line 509, in read
    raise SerialException('read failed: {}'.format(e))
serial.serialutil.SerialException: read failed: device reports readiness to read but returned no data (device disconnected or multiple access on port?)

FUUUU Silent Melzi shit board....

in the market for a new board now.

EDIT: wasted about 10m of PLA now starting over, I also went down with the serial baud rate 57600. Let's see if helps.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 07, 2020, 03:52:28 pm
Not understanding the problem. Is the USB-serial toast, or are you trying to flash and it has no bootloader?

There is usually another serial port you can use to flash a bootloader via FTDI or USBasp. I've read that on some boards this is also the only reliable serial connection available.

Reading aboot these kinds of headaches over and over and over again is why I still SneakerNet my files and use the BabyCam for monitoring... it just works. :-DD

mnem
"There's enough misery to go around without grabbing for more." ~me
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 07, 2020, 04:06:08 pm
Sorry, I should have wrote:

"Gentlemen I am loosing serial connection with the printer sporadically, so the printer stops moving and everything melts around the nozzles if I am printing. Because I am printing through FreeBSD using the serial USB connection"

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32980090169.html (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32980090169.html)

any 32 bit suggestions?

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 07, 2020, 05:21:12 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1104614;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1104618;image)

CR-6SE Add-Ons & included Tool Kit.

I bought a spare build plate cuz only $10, complete hotend, a couple of the  auto-leveling load cells as they were only $7 and incorporate the hotend mount, and an extruder which to my surprise included the stepper for only US$5.20.  :wtf:  Essentially, everything that handles filament.

I wanted to get the interface board that the load cell connects to, but it wasn't available. I may work on figuring out how to adapt the load cell to a generic build; that idea was kicking around the back of my mind as well way back when I ordered. :-+

The extra bit of PTFE Bowden tube, 10 0.40mm nozzles, and the optical sensor were all freebies. I thought the optical sensor was supposed to be for the X-axis; but it's identical to the one already on the Z-axis, and they did not include any bit to break the lightbeam so...  :-//

The tool kit came packed in fitted foam-rubber bits; those immediately went in the "stow it with the carton in the shed" baggie. With the exception of the defective (a die-cut mishap that deformed the end so it wouldn't fit in the bolt) 4mm Allen wrench, I used the included tools to assemble and test.

The 6mm socket wrench and real 6mm x 8mm open-end wrench, while still cheapies, are a welcome improvement over the usual stamped-sheetmetal utter garbunge that usually comes with these printer kits.

The little baggie came with 2 spare nozzles and 2 each of the plastic Bowden clips and locks; I added the 10pcs of freebie nozzles after taking that pic.

The spatula... it's just.... naah. While heavy enough to use for prying a part up, the edges are pretty thick with a heavy burr. I don't want it anywhere near my coated buildplate. Prolly perfectly okay if I were to flip it over on the plain glass side, tho.

The little nippy flush cutters are totes adorbs; they lock closed and were obviously chosen to fit in the drawer with the spatula.

No, your eyes aren't playing tricks on you; that really is a acupuncture needle they included as a nozzle cleaner. It measures right at 0.40mm, but when I ran it through one of the spare nozzles it required a fair bit of force, and the end result was a visibly larger diameter orifice than an untouched nozzle.  :o

The drawer itself has two 12mm neodymium magnets incorporated; they pull the drawer shut with a satisfying clunk and hold it closed pretty well. I'm still undecided whether or not it's more assache than it's worth due to tools randomly sticking to them.  :P

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 07, 2020, 06:41:03 pm
that really is a acupuncture needle

The more you dig in the more this 3DP circus looks like sadomaso activities. I just got bitten by the wobbling wobbling wobbling wobbling ender 5 single Z bed. After 2 hours printing I was hearing rat rat rat rat rat rat rat rat rat rat rat rat rat rat rat rat rat rat: it was the nozzle hitting the infill.

Today I learned that the wobbling bed is a positive feedback system. The more it jetks the more it will jerk down the road.

with this scrap printing we are a 22 meter wasted PLA and about 8 hours printing just today.  |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 08, 2020, 04:20:19 am
LOL... my first big project on the Tornado failed 3 times at aboot 14-16 hours of a 22 hour print due to corners lifting up on a really broad piece.

Unfortunately, this IS part of the territory; these machines are hobby grade, not additive manufacturing. ;) You can either pay megabucks for commercial-grade to have near-zero failed prints, or you can allow budget for wasted filament.   :P

I'd probably have paused the print and tried to snug up the rollers as soon as I heard the noise, m'self. Of course, highly unlikely there wouldn't be some layer shift afterwards, but hey... at least try.  :-//

As far as your serial connectivity problem... I would definitely scour the documentation for your Melzi board and see if you can locate that alternate serial connection for your OctoPrint. Especially if it is already 32-bit.

mnem
All sacrifices upon the altar of IoT...  :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 08, 2020, 09:43:29 am
As far as your serial connectivity problem... I would definitely scour the documentation for your Melzi board and see if you can locate that alternate serial connection for your OctoPrint. Especially if it is already 32-bit.

I'll tell you, I lowered the baudrate. Right now 14 hours into this print, no issue so far. 2 hours left. Will see.
My spider senses are telling me that the USB repair I did don't like high baudrate.

32bit? I have an Atmega 1284P on the freaking board. It's 1990 8 bit Atari game console.

(https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Kc_Collins/publication/262309733/figure/fig2/AS:694796872081408@1542663891658/Original-vector-based-Asteroids-game-Atari-1979-showing-ship-in-centre-and-floating.ppm)

Let's buy a time machine and go back:

1) never have bought the second Zaxis motor (reused the old X motor)
2) never have bought the silent crap board, went straight to 32 bit
3) never have bought the red alu extruder without the pneu fitting

How much more money I have to sacrifice on the IoT altar before I get it right?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 08, 2020, 11:55:43 am
and done....  :phew:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1105062;image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1105066;image)

as mnem said, "My balls still ache".

PS: Yes the corner are lifted up, cardboard box ghetto style?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 08, 2020, 04:08:29 pm
32bit? I have an Atmega 1284P on the freaking board. It's 1990 8 bit Atari game console.

Sorted (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4001051286569.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 08, 2020, 04:38:39 pm
Ooohh.... yeah, lifting corners is  probably as much to do with the design as anything. You have a broad expanse base with corners that merge into vertical walls; as it transitions from the base to the walls, the walls start pulling the corners up because that's where the force concentrates. These are indeed problem objects. ;)

You can either revise the design or seek out specialty build surfaces; the cure for corners lifting on my PSU endcaps was some clone Build-Tak I got with a roll of Overture filament. That schizz just plain STICKS like a mofo; it requires extra care and extra-hard shoving with a plastic putty knife to break 'em free. Same with the CReality Clone UltraBase (coated glass) build-plate on my CR6-SE. Timmeh the Tiny T-Rex sticks so well I'm afraid I'm gonna break the backbone joints; I have to stick a 4mm drill bit in his eye and use it to lever his head off unless I catch it at exactly the right time in its cooling-off period. :-DD

Alternately, I've found that circular shapes are much less prone to lifting this way; you might want to try revising the design to an oval-shaped base and cup.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1105174;image)

Also, I use Brim Adhesion, not Skirt. I set to 2-8mm wide depending on part size. For objects with a 2mm or more rounded fillet on the base, I'll set 0 Brim distance (space between Brim and object); for squarer base objects, I'll set  with ~1 line width or 0.15-0.20mm. This helps the brim come off easily without exaggerating the tendency to "elephant's foot".

My advice... try the above, and/or get a roll of Overture PLA and play with it. Decent filament, and it comes with a 200mm x 200mm sheet of clone Build-Tak to play with.

https://www.amazon.com/OVERTURE-Filament-Consumables-Dimensional-Accuracy/dp/B07PGY2JP1 (https://www.amazon.com/OVERTURE-Filament-Consumables-Dimensional-Accuracy/dp/B07PGY2JP1)



Cheers,

mnem
As always, take any advice I may give with a pinch of salt big enough to pickle a dragon; IIRC, IMHO, YMMV, DQMOT, DILLIGAF...? ;)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on November 09, 2020, 12:44:40 am
These printers require constant diligence to get good results.  I was having an intermittent but serious layer skip problem and was getting material together to ask for help here when I got it sorted.  The answer may save some of you from some head scratching someday.

A loose string of filament had wrapped itself around the shaft of the Z-axis stepper, between the motor and the coupler.  This was apparently grabbing occasionally and that then caused a cascade of problems through the controller ending with an X-axis skip.  Don't know the mechanism, just know that removing the string stopped the problem.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 09, 2020, 04:30:47 am
I had exactly that kind of skip as well on my Diggro a while back... Was a loose pinion on the X-axis stepper. I wouldn't be surprised if the "mechanism" was coincidence. ;)

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 09, 2020, 07:25:18 am
a loose pinion

I used purple threader lock for all the screw related to motion... will see if it helps.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 09, 2020, 11:58:41 am
a loose pinion

I used purple threader lock for all the screw related to motion... will see if it helps.

Purple is good. They only sell the blue (next higher strength) in the local home improvement stores so had to order it. It's good for many small tasks around the house.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 09, 2020, 03:57:20 pm
LokTite Blue on grub screws comes apart easily; just put the tip of a soldering iron in it until you smell cyanide smoke.  >:D

mnem
*glances around suspiciously*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on November 09, 2020, 04:19:34 pm
Went around and checked grub screws per your suggestion, and was glad I did.  No evidence of problems on any translation axis, but the extruder did require attention.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on November 10, 2020, 03:04:38 am
It would seem there are several people around here with a screw loose.



* Glances in a mirror ..... (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/Smileys/default/facepalm.gif) *
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 10, 2020, 03:17:22 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=948886;image)

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=693519;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 10, 2020, 04:24:33 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1106048;image)   

*taps mic, looks around the room*

"Hello, my name is mnem, and I have a problem. I keep printing unicorn butts..."

mnem
"...and I swear, it's not on purpose!"

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 10, 2020, 09:02:23 am
I tought the Bency was a small boat not a small horse butt.
Anyway I am designing two custom CNC 4mm plates for the dual Z upgrade on my Ender 5. Stay tuned it will be fun.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: SilverSolder on November 10, 2020, 01:35:15 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1106048;image)   

*taps mic, looks around the room*

"Hello, my name is mnem, and I have a problem. I keep printing unicorn butts..."

mnem
"...and I swear, it's not on purpose!"

For a moment there, it looked like you were 3D printing molars for your dentist to install!  :D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on November 10, 2020, 01:46:57 pm
For a moment there, it looked like you were 3D printing molars for your dentist to install!  :D
No, they mill those from biocompatible ceramic of some sort.  Only takes half an hour or so.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 10, 2020, 03:38:41 pm
I thought the Benchy was a small boat not a small horse butt.   Anyway I am designing two custom CNC 4mm plates for the dual Z upgrade on my Ender 5. Stay tuned it will be fun.
We won't talk aboot my Benchy habit...  :scared:


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1106362;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1106366;image)

This Ponicorn Monopoly piece for my wife (counterpart to Tiny Toothless) has been a problem model from git-go.  First there was the problem of separating the model from the buildplate, which required an alternate approach to get the part off in one piece as the legs kept breaking off.  :palm:  The first one I printed with "Support everywhere" turned out as a little blob of PLA that was pretty much inseparable from the supports.  After that, I tried "Touching buildplate", which gave predictably stringy results on all the scallopy underhangs that went unsupported. I toyed with learning how to do tree supports BUTT...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1106370;image)

...I had bigger problems. Much more important were these layer lines of poor adhesion in the belly area caused by poor extrusion. ALWAYS in the same area of the print. Repeated scrutiny of the slicing in Cura revealed no obvious defects in the model itself, so to determine if the problem was the printer or something else, I tried printing on my Diggro and that's when the poor extrusion turned into... unicorn butts.

It would just stop extruding, always in the same area of the print. Not the same exact line, but always this general area, even scaled at two different sizes. ??? At first I thought it was a nozzle clog; but releasing the extruder drive & feeding filament by hand... awesome extrusion with very little backpressure. Nozzle was okay.  :wtf:


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1106374;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1106378;image)

It wasn't until I just sat there and watched the damned thing print that I was able to figure it out. Every once in a while the extruder drive would make this horrible buzzing sound, so I watched it feed filament. This area of the print is all very small amounts of extrusion, with repeated retracts over and over again. Eventually, the cogs in the extruder drive would "iron out" the filament, mangling it to the point that the rollers just couldn't get past. Loosening the tension on the extruder drive aboot 3 turns eliminated the problem and I was able to get the above mostly successful print. I'm guessing the CR6-SE extruder drive was eventually able to get past the mangled spots, but still underextrusion in that area of the print.

In retrospect, that is probably because using cheap filament included with the CR-06SE; it seems much softer than the filament I've been using. But just goes to show... there's always something new to learn with these things.

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/repair/tinkering-101-borked-bolt-extraction-by-slotting-with-a-dremel/?action=dlattach;attach=1012872;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 10, 2020, 06:36:28 pm
Wonky filament... bleahh

Anyway tonight I stripped the magnetic layer from the hot bed. Pretty pleased it came off nicely and now I have a better thermal contact between hotbed and the glass.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1106434;image)

There is only a thin plastic transparent layer, which is good so the glass bed will not slip all over the places.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 10, 2020, 06:44:21 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1106438;image)

And so began my descent into Hell...  :o

mnem
(https://media0.giphy.com/media/fny0atxTgO5SRg7QlQ/source.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 10, 2020, 07:39:19 pm
If both are running can you sleep at night?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 10, 2020, 11:29:36 pm
I buy doxylamine in the big bottle. No prob.  :-DD   And both are done printing, turned off now.

Also, smoke defector. Tested for effectiveness with smoldering napkin right above the build plate. ;)

mnem
where are my pants...?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 10, 2020, 11:36:26 pm
If both are running can you sleep at night?

At first I thought you were referring to failing to fall asleep due to worries about catastrophic failures occurring. But I think you meant too much noise.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on November 11, 2020, 02:00:18 am
Also, smoke defector. Tested for effectiveness with smoldering napkin right above the build plate. ;)

I find that a somewhat tenuous test.  If something is going thermal, you are going to get rising air currents that are going to take the smoke up to the ceiling - right away from the smoke detector, which will be monitoring the cool air drawn in from the sides/below.  A smouldering napkin isn't going to have even moderate rising air currents.

If you want to try the napkin trick, I suggest you crank up the hot end and the bed to maximum, let them settle for 5 minutes and then see what happens.  (Or did you do that already)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 11, 2020, 02:51:22 am
Yup.

If I start making it a habit to print overnight, I'll probably make some sort of bracket to clip it to the top of the printer. :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on November 11, 2020, 03:54:13 am
... then you'll start getting false alarms from the printer just doing it's thing...  ;D

Well - that's what Murphy would have me believe.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 11, 2020, 09:09:06 am
If you put a 5mm or so metal plate below them only the printers should burn and melt and nothing else...
In the morning you will find a lot of smoke and nasty smell and that's it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 11, 2020, 03:45:09 pm
... then you'll start getting false alarms from the printer just doing it's thing...  ;D   Well - that's what Murphy would have me believe.
If you put a 5mm or so metal plate below them only the printers should burn and melt and nothing else...   In the morning you will find a lot of smoke and nasty smell and that's it.

*puts both printers out on the curb*

mnem
 :scared:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 11, 2020, 04:15:09 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1107050;image)

This pleases me.

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1107046;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 11, 2020, 07:12:19 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1107146;image)   Oooohhhh... shinyyyyy....   Cura 4.8 is out, at the usual location: https://ultimaker.com/software/ultimaker-cura

It finally has a printer profile for CR-6SE, instead of having to flerp my own from the crunky old version of Cura (https://forum.creality.com/topic/477/how-to-switch-to-cura-4-7/12) that CReality molested for fun & profit. :palm:

Look at all these delicious print profiles... and those just for 0.40 nozzle!

mnem
*lunchtime*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 11, 2020, 07:52:39 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1107264;image)         (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1107268;image)


Currently printing at .016LH and ~40mm tall.  >:D

mnem
So wrong. ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 11, 2020, 09:18:02 pm
I am finishing designing the dual Z on my ender 5.
I have to CNC a 369x210x4 mm aluminuim plate.

Once it is done I will catch you at .016LH mnem...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 11, 2020, 10:01:07 pm
Then we can both try 0.12.  >:D

I think 0.10 is possible, but maybe not with the microsteps on 8mm pitch leadscrew. I'd have to do the math; might have to drop down to 0.08mm, not likely possible.

Then too, the CR-6SE is a native mesh-leveling design with fixed bed height and belt-synchronized Dual-Z, so maybe we CAN get that much precision out of a V-Slot design, if we're ready to run it slow enough... :-//

You mean nobody has a Dual-Z kit out for that model yet...? It's been out a while, hasn't it?

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 12, 2020, 12:16:11 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1107392;image)

wowzers.

mnem
 :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 12, 2020, 12:37:37 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1107408;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1107412;image)   

"Tree Everywhere" support. Interesting.... like he's been sealed in Carbonite. Have to cut the shell away a little bit at a time; like peeling a grape.


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1107416;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1107420;image)

One last snip and he's free... just in time for family night.  ;D

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1108002;image)

EDIT: Here... have another. :-DD

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1107478;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 12, 2020, 07:26:00 am
You mean nobody has a Dual-Z kit out for that model yet...? It's been out a while, hasn't it?

I googled it, all what I saw was chinesium or a solution that reduce the XY area.
So I decided to DIY.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 12, 2020, 03:41:28 pm
Well, in their defense, it is a Chinesium 3DP so... I mean, stamped-aluminum-plate level of precision should be all that's required...  :o

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 13, 2020, 06:31:36 pm
So, rnd Zucking department just called me. They are done with the plate for dual Z upgrade

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1108576;image)

it will be installed where the stock one is (you should filp the above plate left-right, oh well)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1108580;image)

note the second Z will be outside the 2020 alu cube structure, so I will get the full 230x230mm XY area...

I give you all 48 hours to review my design before I go in production on Monday.

 8) 8) 8) 8)  :bullshit:

oh, another call from Zucking EE department, the new touchy touch me display and 32 bit board are here

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1108584;image)

It will be a fun weekend....  :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 14, 2020, 04:05:40 am
They are going to be belt-synchronized, correct...?

mnem
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/11d9ce95e1be95dd30b634389b18cfa6/tenor.gif?itemid=3735321)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 14, 2020, 07:58:18 am
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/219cbc37f06f4b5d52587b4959604d00/tenor.gif?itemid=13697285)

No, no synch belt.

Improved design

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1109000;image)

the one before had weak point/axes exact where the higher flex will be.
I fired the rnd mechanical chief.

EDIT: see tech draw in attachment

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 14, 2020, 02:28:40 pm
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/219cbc37f06f4b5d52587b4959604d00/tenor.gif?itemid=13697285)   No, no synch belt...

eeewwww.

mnem
and a half.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on November 14, 2020, 02:31:42 pm
Independent drive and leveling > sync belt. You do need three, though.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 14, 2020, 03:24:53 pm
Independent drive and leveling > sync belt. You do need three, though.

I tend to agree (https://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/G034.html)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 15, 2020, 10:05:55 am
I am blown away...
schematics, manual, top and bottom layer everything is super well documented and available here (https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-SKR-mini-E3/tree/master/hardware/BTT%20SKR%20MINI%20E3%20V2.0/Hardware)

BIGTREETECH finally someone in china is swimming upstream!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 15, 2020, 12:02:10 pm
The upgrade has begun

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1109766;image)

Very glad that inspired by this (https://www.reddit.com/r/ender5/comments/cvphu3/latest_mod_moving_the_electronics_box_to_the_rear/) I used 3mm L alu profile to mount the electronic in the back of the Ender5.
Unwanted safety feature: you can't remove the elec box panel without removing the main plug  first :-+

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 15, 2020, 03:38:21 pm
Independent drive and leveling > sync belt. You do need three, though.

I tend to agree (https://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/G034.html)

With 2mm pitch leadscrew, I'd agree. With the usual 8mm pitch, just one more assache to keep retuning over and over and over again. |O

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on November 15, 2020, 04:23:12 pm
Independent drive and leveling > sync belt. You do need three, though.

I tend to agree (https://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/G034.html)

With 2mm pitch leadscrew, I'd agree. With the usual 8mm pitch, just one more assache to keep retuning over and over and over again. |O

mnem
 :popcorn:

There's no assache, it just does it. And if you don't turn the steppers off, it only has to do it once.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on November 15, 2020, 05:10:19 pm
I am blown away...
schematics, manual, top and bottom layer everything is super well documented and available here (https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-SKR-mini-E3/tree/master/hardware/BTT%20SKR%20MINI%20E3%20V2.0/Hardware)

BIGTREETECH finally someone in china is swimming upstream!
You know, I think having v1.3 be a variant of the OSHW SmoothieBoard (http://smoothieware.org/smoothieboard) made them realize it is a good way to do this business.  (Make no mistake, SmoothieWare has always explicitly encouraged others to do this (http://smoothieware.org/policy); this is a positive thing for all involved.  Props to Arthur Wolf!)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 16, 2020, 01:53:03 pm
Printed parts for a scrap yard office for N scale railroad. Came out great.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 16, 2020, 02:06:51 pm
why don't you install a 0.2mm nozzle?

Nice stuff btw.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 16, 2020, 02:33:24 pm
why don't you install a 0.2mm nozzle?

Nice stuff btw.

I have one and I have tried it for some very (ridiculously) small items to see what would happen. A guy had designed a VW engine (the old air-cooled one) in 1:160 scale and wanted me to see if it would come out OK on my 3D printer. I said Hell No not with a 0.4 mm nozzle. I printed it to show him and it was basically a little blob of goo, but I bought a 0.2 mm just to see. It sort of kind of looked like the CAD mode - but it's not that obvious. It' just not worth it for what I'm printing out.

You know what "weathering" is right? Making perfect things look beaten and worn like the real world. It seems counter-intuitive at first, but it's actually not always good to have perfect things printed out, at least for what I'm making for this model railroad. The fact that models have small defects when 3D printed is sometimes a good thing.  :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: SilverSolder on November 16, 2020, 03:00:05 pm
[...]  The fact that models have small defects when 3D printed is sometimes a good thing.  :o

Nothing's so bad it ain't good for something!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 16, 2020, 03:06:43 pm
xrunner once I have taken all the chinesium parts out from my ender 5, I will sell everything to you.
Very messy, realistic old looking, imprecise, and fuzzy 3D print results guaranteed.

 :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 16, 2020, 03:09:00 pm
xrunner once I have taken all the chinesium parts out from my ender 5, I will sell everything to you.
Very messy, realistic old looking, imprecise, and fuzzy 3D print results guaranteed.

 :-+

LOL

I was referring to general weathering from sunlight, storms, vegetation, and people. Not air to ground munitions.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 17, 2020, 01:57:11 am
What aboot fireballs, claw slashes and tailstrikes...?  >:D

mnem
Oh, and I think that little doggie is peeing on one.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 19, 2020, 01:53:02 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1114396;image)

Currently cogitating on something to make this a thing, rather than just a mockup with tape & paper-clip...

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=938592;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 20, 2020, 07:12:59 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1114396;image)
Currently cogitating on something to make this a thing, rather than just a mockup with tape & paper-clip...
mnem

How the headphones are charged? Do you want a charger station as well?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 20, 2020, 09:12:40 am
BTW can you confirm me that the nozzle fan (not the cooling part fan) is connected straight to 12V/24V for safety reasons?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on November 20, 2020, 05:07:41 pm
Cheapness reasons, really.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 20, 2020, 06:14:35 pm
Thanks but since I can PWM only two fans on the new board, I will keep the nozzle fan always on.
The two PWM fans will be the cooling part and the heat sink board fan.

I think it is a good compromise.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 22, 2020, 09:14:43 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=957052;image)

I found that annoying AF; my solution was a nice quiet always-on 80mm Arctic fan blowing across the mainboard to replace the always-on 40mm screamer. Cost aboot $6.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=984878;image)

Later, I did this mod to enable PWM control of the hotend fan (my board had only ONE PWM fan available); I incorporated the 12V reg for that fan and LED lighting into that little sub-board along with the PWM pass-transistor connected to D7.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg3051586/#msg3051586

Totes worth it; made my annoying little E3 clone into a civilized 3DP. :-+

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 22, 2020, 09:31:35 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1114396;image)   Currently cogitating on something to make this a thing, rather than just a mockup with tape & paper-clip...

How the headphones are charged? Do you want a charger station as well?

Naahhh... I'm not into that waste of real-estate headset-hanger bunk, and it uses off-the-shelf AAA NiMHs which it recharges using a jack for the same 5V power-pack as the transmitter.

I MAY add a pigtail for charging the headPwns to whatever part remains visible; I'm still vacillating over whether to make the adapter plate or just hack in an old iPud dock I found and stash the transmitter inside my credenza. :-//  I think the deciding factor will be whether I ever get around to adding a switchbox for input from the Roku.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 23, 2020, 07:11:53 am
Later, I did this mod to enable PWM control of the hotend fan (my board had only ONE PWM fan available)

nice job, you inspired me.

My plan:

1) Get a ABL Probe (I have a glass bed so I think it will be BLtouch) to do also the Zmin sensor.
2) With the free Z Min sensor do a PLA runout sensor
3) with the free Zmin pin (in my board the BL touch pins are separated) control the board fan
4) hot nozzle fan controlled by µC and not straight to 24V where now the board fan is.
 
Now I am doing my homework regarding the ABL probe.

Thanks!

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 23, 2020, 04:22:25 pm
You're welcome. ;D

I have had my dalliance with the BLTouch, and to be quite honest, it was a clusterfuck from day one. In principle a good idea, but QC on the sensor (yes, I bought direct from them) was utterly craptacular; it simply did not give consistently repeatable results. After replacing it twice, I cut my losses and went back to manual leveling and a glass bed; I have never once regretted that choice.

My curiosity was piqued by the CR6-SE's approach: mount the entire hotend on a load cell and use that as the leveling sensor. It does seem an elegantly simple solution; one that takes away all the adjustment and offset calculations inherent in using a separate sensor with constantly-changing nozzles, print surfaces, etc.  :-+


Monkeh, if you're still around and can answer this one... How is the mesh leveling implemented in current Marlin FW and slicer profiles?

It seems to me that unless the firmware and/or slicer profile uses some algorithm to average out the difference between the mesh leveling offsets and a virtualized reference flat plane in the first few layers, ultimately mesh leveling just takes the 1-time assache of properly squaring the frame and leveling the bed away, and makes it a 100% duty-cycle assache for metal parts that wear on your machine: the Z-leadscrews/nuts/stepper.  :-//

It also seems to me that constantly moving the Z-axis per the stored mesh-leveling offsets for the entirety of a print would add another place for microstep errors vs increasing weight of the printed part  to creep in and fuck with your head as well.  ???

Maybe once machines that come from the MFR with mesh leveling get more common, we'll have changes in the slicers and firmware that make this a more interactive process with manual control...?

mnem
 :blah:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 23, 2020, 05:59:38 pm
My curiosity was piqued by the CR6-SE's approach: mount the entire hotend on a load cell and use that as the leveling sensor.

and why I can't use the sensorless Z home of mine new shiny TMC2209, to detect when the nozzle is touching the bed? I can set the sensitivity...
Ohh FUU with the 2mm Z screw it will be a shit show... got it.

PS: When you have a magic brillant idea, 99% is just BS  :bullshit:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 23, 2020, 06:56:36 pm
Even on 8mm pitch leadscrew I suspect the force applied to get a valid reading would still be orders of magnitude greater; I suspect repeatability would be a total crapshoot and I doubt soft print surfaces like Build-Tak would survive, even if that approach didn't habitually crack glass, which I'm not sure it wouldn't.  :-//

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 23, 2020, 07:12:51 pm
Just enable & use manual mesh bed leveling in Marlin. It has a menu selection in the Marlin menu that starts it and you just follow it from point to point. I'm doing 16 points and it works great. I leveled it once months ago and haven't had to touch it since.  :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 23, 2020, 08:12:25 pm
Just enable & use manual mesh bed leveling in Marlin. It has a menu selection in the Marlin menu that starts it and you just follow it from point to point. I'm doing 16 points and it works great. I leveled it once months ago and haven't had to touch it since.  :-//

I am using the 3x3=9 mesh with good result too. But I love to explore.
Anyway according to here (https://marlinfw.org/docs/configuration/probes.html) :

Quote
Bed Leveling Methods

Marlin includes various methods of probing and leveling:

    “3-Point” probes a triangle to determine the height and tilt of the bed plane. During printing the nozzle is adjusted in X, Y, and Z, so you can even print on a badly-tilted bed. However, this method requires a very flat and even surface.
    “Linear Grid” probes a square grid (as much as possible on DELTA) to determine the height and tilt of the bed. After that it works just the same way as 3-point leveling.
    “Bilinear Grid” probes a grid in the same manner as Linear Grid, but during printing the Z axis is adjusted according to bilinear interpolation between the measured points. This allows the printer to compensate for an uneven surface,
    “Mesh Bed Leveling” works in the same manner as “Bilinear Grid” but takes different G29 parameters. (This feature is superseded by combining the manual probe option with bilinear leveling, and will not be included in future versions of Marlin.)
    “Unified Bed Leveling” combines elements of bilinear and planar leveling and includes extra utilities to help improve measurement accuracy, especially for deltas. See (link) for an article specifically about this feature.

soo I am moving to AUTO_BED_LEVELING_BILINEAR  Grid with PROBE_MANUALLY, I want to go 4x4 too.

EDIT: I am also doing that because the new board has 512KB of juice (https://www.reddit.com/r/ender3/comments/dsct5x/in_fact_the_flash_size_of_skr_mini_e3_v12_is_512kb/)!!!! Even if the the spec are 256KB  :scared:
that's also the reson why I got that baby...  >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 23, 2020, 08:38:30 pm
soo I am moving to AUTO_BED_LEVELING_BILINEAR  Grid with PROBE_MANUALLY, I want to go 4x4 too.

I see, well I haven't seen them remove Mesh leveling yet, but yea if they do I'll go with the other procedure of course.  8)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 23, 2020, 08:48:10 pm
Yeah, I'm not talking aboot the marketing wank  ;);  I'm wanting to know the nuts & bolts of how it actually works in the course of a print. How it THINKS. How many layers does it take to compensate? How exactly does it calculate compensation?

Obvi, with my CR-6SE I have little choice ATM. I'm just ready to grok a little deeper so I can decide whether to adopt this tech for my "dinosaur" 3DPs.

mnem
 :P
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 23, 2020, 10:37:41 pm
Yeah, I'm not talking aboot the marketing wank  ;);  I'm wanting to know the nuts & bolts of how it actually works in the course of a print. How it THINKS. How many layers does it take to compensate? How exactly does it calculate compensation?

You mean you didn't GOOGLE?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multivariate_interpolation

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilinear_interpolation

...

That's a start
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on November 23, 2020, 10:57:58 pm
There is a fade height option, how that's specifically implemented is documented by the code. I don't even know if there's a default value or whether it effectively defaults to off without being explicitly set.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 23, 2020, 11:18:48 pm
There is a fade height option, how that's specifically implemented is documented by the code. I don't even know if there's a default value or whether it effectively defaults to off without being explicitly set.

It's default Zero somewhere deeper down because that's what it's always been in my menu, this is all there is about it from configuration.h -

#if ANY(MESH_BED_LEVELING, AUTO_BED_LEVELING_BILINEAR, AUTO_BED_LEVELING_UBL)
  // Gradually reduce leveling correction until a set height is reached,
  // at which point movement will be level to the machine's XY plane.
  // The height can be set with M420 Z<height>
  #define ENABLE_LEVELING_FADE_HEIGHT

There is a set option in the Motion - Bed Leveling menu, mine is set to Zero (apply leveling to all layers). I've never set it to a height, but they seem to imply the leveling can be ignored after a certain height. My machine is printing well with it left at Zero, so why not leave it be.  :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 24, 2020, 12:02:35 am
Yeah, I'm not talking aboot the marketing wank  ;);  I'm wanting to know the nuts & bolts of how it actually works in the course of a print. How it THINKS. How many layers does it take to compensate? How exactly does it calculate compensation?
You mean you didn't GOOGLE?   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multivariate_interpolation   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilinear_interpolation   ...That's a start

That's how it generates the entire offset table from the 16-point (or however many points) matrix, isn't it? That does NOT tell me how that table gets turned into an actual flat plane over several layers, or even if it does in fact "average out" rather than just apply that table throughout the entire print.

I've looked several times, and all the documentation (especially what's in the code... well, duh ;)) seems to assume a certain much-higher-than-average knowledge of the programming involved; nowhere could I find any clearly defined (as in basic principles using English rather than math with no clearly defined target) "theory of operation" for the mesh-leveling or whatever it is evolving into now.

I run into this almost any time I try to wrap my brain around some concept in Marlin; I mean, I get that this is mostly volunteer-generated code, and parsing user-level documentation takes time that could be used to refine the code. But having the majority of the documentation buried in the code is a large part of why these things remain perpetually hobbyist-grade...  |O

So then comes the balance between making a tool that's turn-key ready enough that even management-types can use it (whereupon it will instantly become a commoditized, closed-source system available only for retail) vs leaving the personal, intellectual cost-of-entry high enough to keep the professional grifters out so that "the few who bother" can have a working product at an affordable price through their own efforts.

*sigh*

mnem
"It's always sumthin'." ~Rosanne Rosanna-Danna
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 24, 2020, 12:13:23 am
That's how it generates the entire offset table from the 16-point (or however many points) matrix, isn't it? That does NOT tell me how that table gets turned into an actual flat plane over several layers, or even if it does in fact "average out" rather than just apply that table throughout the entire print.

It will interpolate every layer if the Enable fade height is left at Zero. If it is set to a height other than zero it stops interpolating at that height (gradually until it gets there), because it's already manufactured a surface to build upon - the actual model layers.

It interpolates a Z height wherever the X and Y position is at any point in time (from the initial points you measured to begin with). I'm not sure what it is you want to know beyond that. I think you are making it harder than it is.  :(

Maybe Monkeh can 'splain it better ...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 24, 2020, 12:33:04 am
Are you sure that's what it's saying here? What I see sounds more like a description of different methods of generating the offset table; not explicitly how that table, once generated, is used in each mode to affect the movement of the Z-axis.  :o

Obviously, how it affects the first layer or three is pretty self-explanatory; but after that, once the first few layers go down and adhesion is achieved, then what? I guess I'm not seeing where it explicitly states that it averages out in small increments to a zero offset, or if it just stops using the offset table, or if it does something else entirely.  :-//

That's what I'm looking for; a brief ELI5 explanation of how each of these modes affects the movement of the z-axis after the offset table is created; not a deep-dive into how the math for that table is derived.

EDIT: Oh, wait... I was looking at the wrong post; let me look into that bit of config.h...

mnem
 ???
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 24, 2020, 11:46:52 pm
Oh, fuck me... that section of the FW for my Diggro is buried in layers of ELSE IF conditionals because the Longer LK4 it is based on has an autolevel package available from the factory.  :palm:

Every time I poke around in this thing it's like that; it looks like there are 3 or 4 different machines and a dozen variations of screen/UI, printbed, hotend and accessories that are all serviced by this one firmware.  |O

Okay, yeah it does look like that section does exactly what you suggest. Exactly the way I want to do it. Now all I have to do brave the conditional statement jungle and figure out exactly what is and isn't enabled here.(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=693504;image)

mnem
*girding my loins*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 25, 2020, 12:03:08 am
Obviously, how it affects the first layer or three is pretty self-explanatory; but after that, once the first few layers go down and adhesion is achieved, then what? I guess I'm not seeing where it explicitly states that it averages out in small increments to a zero offset, or if it just stops using the offset table, or if it does something else entirely.  :-//

Yea after the first few layers you can have it fade-out until it doesn't use any corrections at all. At that point (what ever the fade-out height is you set in mm) it just follows X & Y "machine true" because your rails aren't going to have any imperfections like the bed had. It's past the point it needs to follow the bed. The malleability and "smooshyness" (new tech term) of the PLA enables it to go from an initial phase of following imperfections to a (hopefully) flat plane which is machine true.

I had just left mine with a fade-out of Zero which meant that it used the corrections all the way up. Since my glass bed is really flat I didn't see any issues. But since I have re-thought this I did go to a 3 mm fade-out today. I did check to see if the Z screw did stop small adjustments after 3 mm and sure enough it did. The parts still look just as good to my eye, so I'll leave it at that.  :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 25, 2020, 12:19:27 am
Yeah, especially with a single-Z machine like my Diggro, I can see a lot of potential for gremlin playtime if it never stops making those constant little adjustments. Leadscrew/nut/tire wear, acceleration of the x-axis settlement/leveling issues endemic to the design, and adding one more place for microstep errors to creep in.

I find myself thinking it's time to really test my mettle and load a plain vanilla version of Marlin on there; but my poor understanding of how the touchscreen interacts with it scares me. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=693504;image)

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 25, 2020, 10:03:11 am
but my poor understanding of how the touchscreen interacts with it scares me.

Was the same for me when I upgraded to this TFT touch (https://www.biqu.equipment/products/biqu-tft35-v1-1-smart-controller-display-3-5-inch-touch-screen-compatible-with-mks-gen-v1-4-cntrol-board-for-3d-printer), but 10 minutes later I was back on the horse with no fear.

Basically it has two mode:

- Marlin Emulation (over the ribbon cable)
- TFT Touch color wankery (over RS232)

The TFT mode is lke an octoprint conneted to the main board over serial.
Good reading here (https://crosslink.io/2020/06/12/skr-1-3-1-4-tft35-display-installation-and-marlin-2-0-configuration/).

I am wondering now if all 3DP touchscreen has a Marlin emulation mode....

If I want I have full access to the FW of the touch screen on GIthub, which is very nice to tune stuff.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 25, 2020, 02:56:24 pm
but my poor understanding of how the touchscreen interacts with it scares me.

Was the same for me when I upgraded to this TFT touch (https://www.biqu.equipment/products/biqu-tft35-v1-1-smart-controller-display-3-5-inch-touch-screen-compatible-with-mks-gen-v1-4-cntrol-board-for-3d-printer), but 10 minutes later I was back on the horse with no fear.

Keep encouraging him Zucca. I'll do so as well - between you and me we can get him to brick his machine real good.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 25, 2020, 04:58:30 pm
After 3 days of pain I was able to make Octoprint powering off the FreeBSD box and make the firmware upgrade by the plugin...
It was a wonderful learning experience.

On other news I just tried the AUTO_BED_LEVELING_BILINEAR 4x4 with PROBE_MANUALY everything went well!
Now I have to print something and I let you know....
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 25, 2020, 05:57:35 pm
but my poor understanding of how the touchscreen interacts with it scares me.
Was the same for me when I upgraded to this TFT touch (https://www.biqu.equipment/products/biqu-tft35-v1-1-smart-controller-display-3-5-inch-touch-screen-compatible-with-mks-gen-v1-4-cntrol-board-for-3d-printer), but 10 minutes later I was back on the horse with no fear.
Keep encouraging him Zucca. I'll do so as well - between you and me we can get him to brick his machine real good.  :-DD

ppppppppttttttpppplllbbbbbbbbbbb!   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1061336;image)

No, the TS on my Diggro doesn't have a 128x64 emulation mode; no encoder. Sometimes I wish it did. It uses the same dwin D5 ARM-processor-based touchscreen as the Wanhao D9 discussed here: https://bleughbleugh.wordpress.com/2018/07/10/wanhao-duplicator-9-d9-technical-stuff/ and here: https://bleughbleugh.wordpress.com/2018/07/11/wanhao-duplicator-9-d9-technical-stuff-part-deux-the-lcd-part-number/

TL/DR: The TS is a little proprietary-processor ARM PC (with its own FW and menu/image library) that communicates with the 3DP controller via serial. There is also a connector on the Diggro MB that I think supports a standard 128x64 UI panel per RAMPS 1.xx pinout.

I toyed with the idea of building one of the alternate UI boards that uses a cheap encoder and a cheap OLED display; I put it off figuring someday soon I'll have access to my bin of old RAMPS 1.2 bits & pieces. Maybe I'll buy a standard 128x64 UI panel next time I shop 3DP parts; they're cheap. :-//

mnem
*punt*

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 26, 2020, 01:46:30 pm
My printer never had an anti-bnacklash nut for the Z axis. Now it does. When the lead screw was still disconnected from the motor I can definitely tell a difference.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 26, 2020, 02:01:12 pm
xrunner, I was just on the phone with Santa.
I told him about your new post and guess what, since you were a good boy this year he will sent you a 2mm pitch Z screw with brass anti-bnacklash.
He just need to stop first in china to grab one, then he will drop one at your home.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 27, 2020, 03:54:53 am
My printer never had an anti-bnacklash nut for the Z axis. Now it does. When the lead screw was still disconnected from the motor I can definitely tell a difference.

Ayup. One of those things I install during the initial build.  :-+ Along with a rigid/semi-rigid coupler on the Z-axis, or my "5/16 inch ball bearing mod".

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=976990;image)

But uhhhh... the lash & spring are supposed to be on the unloaded side, not the load-bearing side.

mnem
*toddles off to ded*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 27, 2020, 09:27:51 am
But uhhhh... the lash & spring are supposed to be on the unloaded side, not the load-bearing side.

So you are saying the hotbed weight should not compress but release compression on the anti-bnacklash coil spring? Or it is just related to that 3DP model?

rigid/semi-rigid coupler

picture? Thanks
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 27, 2020, 12:39:41 pm
But uhhhh... the lash & spring are supposed to be on the unloaded side, not the load-bearing side.

So you are saying the hotbed weight should not compress but release compression on the anti-bnacklash coil spring? Or it is just related to that 3DP model?

LOL here we go folks!  :-DD I'm sure we can argue this for several pages, it's an EEBBlog feature!

I see plenty of examples of it mounted either way. I find no explanation of which way it "should" go. I really don't think it is going to make much of a difference anyway, because I see no difference in the quality of the prints I'm making after I installed it (which is the same way as many other knowledgeable people have installed it) for example -

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG8X26UtLVw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hG8X26UtLVw)

If it was reversed, the threads are going to push hard on the first section of it which is the one screwed down, so where is any backlash going to come into play? The second section of the coupler won't even do anything on the way up. It's simply going to screw the platform up, up, up until it's done and backlash is not even an influence. There is no backlash because it's not going "back". Now if the X or Y axis used screws then yea it would be a good part ...

It's more suited for a side-to-side sort of mechanism anyway. So I don't see any reason to mount it differently. In fact, I really don't see much use for it now at all.  :-\ However, if the machine is off, it does help keep the platform from slipping down making it easier to work on.  :P

I think now it's "Hey lets design and sell an anti-backlash nut for 3D printers because they don't come with one!" sort of thing. But go ahead and 'splain why all the examples I see on the internet (even by sellers) mounting it this way are in error ...  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 27, 2020, 05:44:07 pm
This has to do with people who have no experience building with linear actuators designing and building things with linear actuators. Like the rubber motor mounting plates, they make assumptions as to how they're meant to be used. ;)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118798;image)

I spent close to a decade working in semi-automated manufacturing related to welded product mass-production... building welding/drilling/machining jigs and parts placing/moving linear actuators was a big part of that work, as was building with 8020 extrusion. Not all of it used this bronze-nut rubbish; much of it required recirculating ball leadscrews like the one above. But for applications where space did not permit, or dusty/dirty environments, or high precision in both directions of travel wasn't necessary, bronze nuts/leads did get used. 

I learned quite a bit in that apprenticeship... some of it translates directly to 3DP; however not nearly as much as I'd originally taken for granted when I got into this hobby.
:-[

But yeah... that is a pretty fundamental design principle for these things. The lash goes on the unloaded side.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118794;image)

Picture your printer stock, with no spring & lash on the nut. The weight of the X-axis carriage presses down on the nut pretty much all the time. Most of the time, that constant downward force is all that is needed to get relatively consistent results. Force from the leadscrew is applied upward. You want the force of the spring under the lash to be always pressing in the opposite direction to that of the applied force from the lead; in other words, if the lead is pressing upwards, the base of the spring needs to be pressing downwards.

All the lash & spring are supposed to do in this case is resist any tendency to push back in the wrong direction (unless your actuator needs to be able to apply force against a workload in both directions; then the preload of the spring under the lash needs to be greater than the maximum applied force in either direction) and to prevent bounce.

If we designed this with a proper bidirectional anti-backlash (the spring applying greater force than any anticipated loading in either direction) it wouldn't matter. But that would require a much stronger motor to overcome the drag of such an arrangement, and wear would be greater, so larger leadscrews, nuts, motor control electronics...  |O

So, in this case, we design so it works with the prevailing preload of gravity instead of against it, and the lash & spring go on the unloaded side.

People who don't know any better design printers with the nut on the Z-axis lead going either way, and if using a standard nut it doesn't matter. They don't take into account that someone might want to put a proper anti-lash nut on there. That is when you run into these problems.


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118802;image)

Another design consideration that gets completely ignored is proper thrust loading geometry. Steppers are not meant to handle ANY thrust loading; they are supposed to only provide torque. A properly designed actuator has a leadscrew which is fully supported by bearings in all axes such that those bearings take all thrust and lateral load. The stepper is then pretty much an afterthought. ;) It will get mounted solidly to a bracket, then connected to the leadscrew with a flexible coupler that makes up for any slight misalignment between the centerlines of the two shafts.

Partly out of ignorance, and partly out of cost-cutting, most cheap 3DPrinters pretty much completely ignore all of this basic engineering. They use no thrust bearings, and in fact not only apply thrust load directly to the Z-axis stepper, they apply it through a flexible coupler with all the thrust-loading capacity of a wet noodle.  :palm:

"You can't push a string." is the engineering maxim which applies here; they may not be pushing a string, but the flexible couplers which are cheapest are pretty close; they're a (more or less precision) helical-cut spring which connects a stepper to a leadscrew. These are intended to handle torsional load only. they are not intended for even a gram of thrust loading. ::)

Worse, the cheapest ones use grub screws against the shaft; this, combined with usually abysmal precision in the manufacturing of the bores, makes a coupler that by its nature goes off-center as soon as you start tightening things down. Their only saving grace is the fact that they are essentially a spring, and can make up for several thou out-of-round and even a degree or two off-axis. But that generally self-curing nature of the design does not cure the problem of trying to apply thrust load through a spring.  :P

Knowing this, you can then either completely redesign the X-Axis actuator with proper bearing plates and thrust-loading design, or you can take some minimal steps to ameliorate the impact of the poor design endemic to the product. I choose the latter course.

The fact is that the thrust loading on the stepper motor is pretty low; low enough that even if the bearings do fail as a result, it will be long after the rollers and belts and pretty much every other part of the printer wear out from just plain moving constantly on a chassis made with pretty poor tolerances. And a replacement stepper is $10-20, so really almost a consumable supply anyways. :-//

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118806;image)

So then we look at the coupler. There are two basic ways to resolve this issue: either spend the money on a proper semi-rigid coupler that is designed to handle thrust load, or modify the springy one to handle thrust load.

CReality, to their credit, figured this one out a long time ago and went with the first solution. These semi-rigid couplers have a slot cut approx 75% of the way through the body. This will flex enough to make up for a few thou misalignment, however not enough to give at all under thrust loading. The clamp-style attachment used on these by its nature self-centers on the centerline of the shaft it is attached to, and once tightened down, does not work loose like grub screws in this application.

The single drawback of this approach is that to work, these couplers need to be machined to pretty high precision. An order of magnitude higher than most of the cheapo China-direct stuff out there. That is not hard to get... it just costs money. These couplers may not look like much, but they cost easily 3-5x as much to make as those helical-cut cheapies.

I ran up against this issue ages ago with my Tarantula builds... and I came up with a solution back then that still works, for the most part; but you have to have balls. Loose ones.  >:D

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=498647;image)

Being a tinkerdwagon with interests in a multitude of disciplines means that one of the things I keep in my little bag of dirty tricks is an assortment of loose ball-bearings. When I first started building the Tarantula, I could literally see the coupler bunging up & down while it was running (The Tarantula was a horrible design... it loaded up the Z-Axis really badly), so I tried to find something just like the CReality coupler above. It simply was not available, except in SAE sizes from US machinery suppliers for almost as much money as the whole printer.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118810;image)

So I started thinking, and I realized a thrust bearing was needed here... but it just needed to apply against compression, so a single ball situated between the ends of the stepper and leadscrew shafts was all that would be needed. Even then, most 3DP used a 5mm x 8mm coupler here (due to using the cheapest leadscrew vs cheapest steppers); I found that a 5/16" ball-bearing was just small enough that it would drop inside the coupler and would self-center without binding anywhere.

I found that by adjusting the placement of the coupler so that the ball was a little off-center in the coupler vertically, then pulling the bottom of the coupler down before tightening, I could put a little preload on the ball, and all thrust-loading would be translated directly to the shaft of the stepper, with zero load taken by the spring errr, coupler. :-+

I've been doing them that way ever since. But I still prefer the CReality solution of simply using a better quality semi-rigid coupler. And my CR-6-SE uses two of em.  ;D

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1099846;image)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 27, 2020, 06:34:07 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118826;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118830;image)

Printed this at 0.28mm DRAFT quality, with support everywhere and 3mm walls/2mm top/bottom thickness, concentric pattern. It's a bumper/toeplate for my son's longboard; he keeps whacking it into curbs and has chunked the point off one end. :palm:

Next is to trim/deburr and see how it fits. :-+ I really like how the coarse print actually becomes a nice grip surface.  ;D

mnem
*punt!*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: SilverSolder on November 27, 2020, 07:50:38 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118826;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118830;image)

Printed this at 0.28mm DRAFT quality, with support everywhere and 3mm walls/2mm top/bottom thickness, concentric pattern. It's a bumper/toeplate for my son's longboard; he keeps whacking it into curbs and has chunked the point off one end. :palm:

Next is to trim/deburr and see how it fits. :-+ I really like how the coarse print actually becomes a nice grip surface.  ;D

mnem
*punt!*


What type of plastic is it made of - ABS?

Can you 3D print Nylon?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 27, 2020, 08:24:23 pm
Damn mnem I have to reverse my anti-bnacklash, thank God the second Z axis is not installed yet.
After reading your post I think also I will be able to get more Z dimension out of my 3DP in this way.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 27, 2020, 08:42:35 pm
Heh ,

TH3D -

https://www.th3dstudio.com/product/upgraded-leadscrew-nut-for-creality-printers-anti-backlash-nut/ (https://www.th3dstudio.com/product/upgraded-leadscrew-nut-for-creality-printers-anti-backlash-nut/)

Sells them and they are a reputable company. They mount them just like I did. I was going to call them and have them explain it so I can relay but they only do tech support via email.

In any case I'm leaving mine alone.  :)

But thanks for your opinion Mnem.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 27, 2020, 08:44:23 pm
Controller Board FAN upgrade

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118880;image)

So again mnem pushed me to take care about the fans. I pulled out from under my bench a unused fan from my junk yard that could do the trilck.
Same dimension as the 24V Creality stock one but double the thickness and 12V.

First I measured the stock one
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118884;image)
and I got 6700 rpm at 24V.

After doing some stupid math, the new one to push the same amount of air should be run at 2800rpm. Nice! the sound of silence!
Then I measured the new one and I got 3975rpm@8,2V and  3050 rpm at 6,7V... I was shooting for 3000rpm at least... so at least 6,7V.

I will mount the new fan outside the case, so I drilled and tapped the holes to be able to fix the new fan with some 30mm screws.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118888;image)

Then I pulled out a DC DC LM2596, and after cutting some traces I was able to switch it on and off by using the enable pin.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118892;image)

So the DCDC is not only converting the 24V to 7V but also acting as a switch for the µC. booom.

After that some Marlin magic:

Code: [Select]
#define USE_CONTROLLER_FAN
#if ENABLED(USE_CONTROLLER_FAN)
  #define CONTROLLER_FAN_PIN PC12        // Set a custom pin for the controller fan // Zuk PWR-DET
  //#define CONTROLLER_FAN_USE_Z_ONLY    // With this option only the Z axis is considered
  //#define CONTROLLER_FAN_IGNORE_Z      // Ignore Z stepper. Useful when stepper timeout is disabled.
  #define CONTROLLERFAN_SPEED_MIN      0 // (0-255) Minimum speed. (If set below this value the fan is turned off.)
  #define CONTROLLERFAN_SPEED_ACTIVE   0 // (0-255) Active speed, used when any motor is enabled // Zuk FAN on LOW
  #define CONTROLLERFAN_SPEED_IDLE   255 // (0-255) Idle speed, used when motors are disabled // Zuk FAN off LOW
  #define CONTROLLERFAN_IDLE_TIME     60 // (seconds) Extra time to keep the fan running after disabling motors
  #define CONTROLLER_FAN_EDITABLE      // Enable M710 configurable settings
  #if ENABLED(CONTROLLER_FAN_EDITABLE)
    #define CONTROLLER_FAN_MENU          // Enable the Controller Fan submenu
  #endif
#endif

Note that I was able to invert the output because the LM2596 has an inverted enable pin.... another miracle.
Now I have to wait the 30mm M3 screw to finish it up.
 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 27, 2020, 09:52:24 pm
Be very careful using that buck converter, unless you know your source well.    (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1107972;image)   

I had a handful of similar 6A-rated LM2587-based buck converters I bought a couple years ago; one of them failed pass-element-short in my T12 Soldering station build and took out my first T12 OLED controller board. When I related the story in the TEA thread, bd139 or Spec warned me that there were just shedloads of cheap China-direct buck converters with counterfeit ICs in that whole family that were known to fail short, even though the genuine chip is designed to fail or failsafe open.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1082614;image)   That was when I was building this version with the KSGER T12 controller; I immediately dumped all those buck converters in the "parts scavenging bin" and went with this 12A CC/CV Buck/Boost unit instead.  :-+

mnem
 :-/O



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 27, 2020, 10:19:30 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118826;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118830;image)   Printed this at 0.28mm DRAFT quality, with support everywhere and 3mm walls/2mm top/bottom thickness, concentric pattern. It's a bumper/toeplate for my son's longboard; he keeps whacking it into curbs and has chunked the point off one end. :palm:   Next is to trim/deburr and see how it fits. :-+ I really like how the coarse print actually becomes a nice grip surface.  ;D

mnem
*punt!*
What type of plastic is it made of - ABS?   Can you 3D print Nylon?   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118944;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1118948;image)

Nahhh... PLA. The CR-6SE supports PLA/TPU/ABS stock out of the box, but I have the family to consider and no garage right now. I've printed this extra-heavy-walled, and then potted the chunked-out end inside with epoxy to give the board a little reinforcement. If it doesn't hold up, well it really is intended to be a sacrificial part; I'll just print another.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVfopcz4nas (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bVfopcz4nas)

This is all more of a "Let us see what Squirt does flying solo..." (01:35 in the vid) kind of scenario anyways; this thing sat all summer after he dusted his knees & elbows and now he's after me to fix it up so he can try again. If he actually gets back on it and tries to learn to just ride competently instead of beating the crap out of it failing at stunts you aren't supposed to on a longboard anyways, he may find something a little higher on the food chain under the tree this Xmas. ;)

Right now waiting on another roll of filament from Amazon to start on one for t'other end; by my calculations I have like 36 grams left and that just ain't gonna cut it. ;)

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1089934;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 28, 2020, 12:27:06 am
...Right now waiting on another roll of filament from Amazon to start on one for t'other end; by my calculations I have like 36 grams left and that just ain't gonna cut it. ;)
Filament arrived, but it's not a perfect match to what I've been using. That was black-black and high-gloss; this is a little brownish and semi-gloss or satin. The brand I've been using was sold out, so I bought a 1Kg roll of FlashForge branded filament cuz it was on sale. Toeplate #2 is printing, so we'll see how it matches up tomorrow morning, I guess... :-//


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1119004;image)
But what is this...? What from BTT could've sneaked into my order...?

mnem
It was like $18; how could I resist...?    >:D

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 28, 2020, 12:46:26 am
Does that box have a yellow rubber ducky in it? That's what my bigtreetech box had inside (along with the controller board).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 28, 2020, 01:55:41 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1119022;image)

 >:D

mnem
"Oh rubber duckie, you're the one;
You make bathtime lots of fun.
Oh, rubber duckie, rubber duckie, rubber duckie...
I'm awfully fond of you."

*sqweek-sqweeeek!*


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 28, 2020, 05:29:59 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1119112;image)

Isn't it just adorbs...?  :-DD

Oh, and the duckie too...  ;)

I have to admit... I WAS hoping for the thing to just work, as the DIGGRO is already configured for serial control. I tried every baudrate available in the menu and swapping TX & RX in case it was labeled wrong but no joy; it wouldn't even finish booting then.  :P

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1119116;image)

I'll have to see if I can find any documentation; it appears the FW has been revised as it is dated April 2020. I'm pretty sure the 6-Pin header is AVR-ICSP; I'm hoping the 8-pin is most of the pins for EXP-1 but that will probably require tracing out to the CPU.

mnem
*toddles off to ded*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on November 28, 2020, 08:19:00 am
Because it is morning hereabouts, and I'm not a morning person, I initially thought that LGT_KIT_V1.0 board was by BTT (and not Diggro), and wanted to check the details at BTT website.  This is a screenshot of what I found.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1119150;image)

I wonder if their bolg tells more about the cheap wedding dresses they sell? :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tautech on November 28, 2020, 08:37:01 am
Because it is morning hereabouts, and I'm not a morning person, I initially thought that LGT_KIT_V1.0 board was by BTT (and not Diggro), and wanted to check the details at BTT website.  This is a screenshot of what I found.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1119150;image)

I wonder if their bolg tells more about the cheap wedding dresses they sell? :-DD
This is a trick some AliExpress sellers use to make private listings after discussion to organize a private deal.
Normally the price is firmly set as the same as you have privately negotiated and once agreed the seller sends you the link to the listing for which you have a set time to hit Buy.
They feel more confident using AliExpress and have the security of Escrow.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 28, 2020, 10:33:00 am
to fail short

If this is the case the 24V 20A car blade fuse will blow up, thanks for the head up.

oh wait, my main PSU is rated 24V 14,6A, uh?

Car fuse spec
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1119244;image)

uuu I have to get a 15A fuse  :scared:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 28, 2020, 12:29:44 pm
I have to admit... I WAS hoping for the thing to just work, as the DIGGRO is already configured for serial control. I tried every baudrate available in the menu and swapping TX & RX in case it was labeled wrong but no joy; it wouldn't even finish booting then.  :P

I'll have to see if I can find any documentation; it appears the FW has been revised as it is dated April 2020. I'm pretty sure the 6-Pin header is AVR-ICSP; I'm hoping the 8-pin is most of the pins for EXP-1 but that will probably require tracing out to the CPU.

I had to muck around with serial port settings in FW before my touch screen would communicate (the default settings would not work). I'm talking about Marlin FW for the BTT SKR Mini. Here's my serial settings for what it's worth -

/**
 * Select the serial port on the board to use for communication with the host.
 * This allows the connection of wireless adapters (for instance) to non-default port pins.
 * Serial port -1 is the USB emulated serial port, if available.
 * Note: The first serial port (-1 or 0) will always be used by the Arduino bootloader.
 *
 * :[-1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7]
 */
#define SERIAL_PORT -1

/**
 * Select a secondary serial port on the board to use for communication with the host.
 * :[-1, 0, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7]
 */
#define SERIAL_PORT_2 2

/**
 * This setting determines the communication speed of the printer.
 *
 * 250000 works in most cases, but you might try a lower speed if
 * you commonly experience drop-outs during host printing.
 * You may try up to 1000000 to speed up SD file transfer.
 *
 * :[2400, 9600, 19200, 38400, 57600, 115200, 250000, 500000, 1000000]
 */
#define BAUDRATE 115200
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 28, 2020, 02:45:32 pm
Yeah, remember that this port is already configured in Marlin; I unplugged the original TS and swapped the pins around to match the BTT serial input. Should be the only thing that needs configuring is baudrate; but I see lots of posts from people head-scratching because no matter what they do, they keep getting "No Printer Connected!" on the screen.

My guess is that there must be something it expects to see in the datastream... or maybe just the refresh rate... and it's not happy. :-//

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1005859;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 28, 2020, 02:49:15 pm
Yeah, remember that this port is already configured in Marlin ...

Yes, but what port number? Mine had to be port 2 before it would work.  :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 28, 2020, 04:34:01 pm
...Right now waiting on another roll of filament from Amazon to start on one for t'other end; by my calculations I have like 36 grams left and that just ain't gonna cut it. ;)
Filament arrived, but it's not a perfect match to what I've been using. That was black-black and high-gloss; this is a little brownish and semi-gloss or satin. The brand I've been using was sold out, so I bought a 1Kg roll of FlashForge branded filament cuz it was on sale. Toeplate #2 is printing, so we'll see how it matches up tomorrow morning, I guess... :-//

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1119382;image)

Toeplate for other end was done printing when I woke up this morning; holding them together side by side, you can see a slight difference in color but at the other end of the board it's indistinguishable.

Here's hoping the boi steps up & puts it to good use. Or bad use. ;)

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 28, 2020, 04:37:53 pm
Yeah, remember that this port is already configured in Marlin ...

Yes, but what port number? Mine had to be port 2 before it would work.  :popcorn:

This same port already works with the Diggro TS. :-// That tells me that this isn't a reserved port in Marlin, and that the port should be properly configured for serial, no matter what device is connected to it. Unless one or the other of these uses some non-standard protocol or handshaking, which of course is very possible.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 28, 2020, 07:46:34 pm
Oklay... I think I get it.

After reading the manual: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1119474 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1119474)

it appears that this control panel works in 3 different modes: (1) 128x64 Emulation Mode, (2) Ender 3 SWD mode, and (C) Serial Mode.

Apparently, the FW will auto-switch (depending on what is present) or manually switch between 128x64 emulation mode and the other two; however, Serial mode vs CReality SWD mode each have their own firmware.

Trying to figure out which FW is on this thing right now...  |O

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 28, 2020, 08:12:30 pm
Trying to figure out which FW is on this thing right now...  |O

Just download and install the latest FW, there's nothing you need to figure out.  :-//

They upgrade the FW all the time, heck I've updated mine (the TFT35 V3.0_E.26) probably 15 times since I've had it. In fact they just put up one with some changes since a few days ago. Your screen is included in the .zip file as well as all the others, like mine.

https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-TouchScreenFirmware

Just put the TFT .bin file for your board, the TFT directory for your board (it contains the bmp and font files), and the config.ini on an SD card and upgrade. That's all there is to it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 29, 2020, 04:11:51 am
I was beating my head against GitHUB for a few... couldn't get the TFT folders to save. Finally gave up and downloaded the entire Git as a ZIP. It's late; I'll look into it some more tomorrow.

mnem
 :=\

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 29, 2020, 12:29:03 pm
Just updated the screen FW again this morning. Like I said, they make changes to it all the time, which I suppose is better than them not caring any more.

This time I noticed an error that has appeared during the upgrade process for several upgrade cycles, regarding some mis-match of a .bmp file, has also been fixed.

The only things I change in the config.ini file are these - however there are other things you could play around with. Remember - nothing can go wrong,  :-DD

#### Auto Save Load Leveling Data
# The TFT will auto-detect if Auto Bed Level is available.
# Enable this will send "M500" after "G29" to store leveling value
# and send "M420 S1" to enable leveling state after startup
# Options: [enable: 1, disable: 0]
auto_load_leveling:0

^^^ I changed it to 0

#### Persistent temperature info
# show persistent temperature info on all menu screens
# Options: [enable: 1, disable: 0]
persistent_info:1

^^^ I changed it to 1

#### Default Marlin Mode Background & Font Color Options
# Options: [ WHITE: 0,  BLACK: 1,  RED: 2,  GREEN: 3,      BLUE: 4,       CYAN: 5,  MAGENTA: 6,    YELLOW: 7,
#           ORANGE: 8, PURPLE: 9, LIME: 10, BROWN: 11, DARKBLUE: 12, DARKGREEN: 13,    GRAY: 14, DARKGRAY: 15]
# Or set the color(RGB888 format) hex value directly(start with “0x”).
# Such as: 0xFF0000 : Red, 0x00FF00 : Green, 0x0000FF : Blue
marlin_bg_color:1
marlin_fn_color:7

^^^ I changed it to 7
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 29, 2020, 04:10:08 pm
Yup; I just updated to the version released yesterday.

Still no joy, even after trying all the available baudrate settings one at a time and resetting the panel each time. While I was doing that, I realized it should not be a surprise; this thing has to be set up as serial comms. If it were set up for SWD, there shouldn't be a baud rate setting.  :palm:

There must be something else; either that, or the Serial port I'm using is actually a pair of multi-I/O pins and this thing requires a hardware RS-232 port. That might explain why yours needs to be on a specific serial port. :-//

I'm going to take the deep-dive on the config.ini that I saw posted in the GitHUB. in a minute. Or three. Well, after I have some breakfast & coffeee in me. ;)

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1119804;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 29, 2020, 04:44:48 pm
Ugggh. The "deep-dive" on the gitHUB was just filehandling instructions for config.ini; not any kind of in-depth study of the various settings. As usual with Marlin, I'll have to scroll through the whole effing thing and parse it as I'm reading.

This is going to be at least 2 coffees worth...  |O

mnem
(https://media1.tenor.com/images/36744b451950d5091d703b78c2221a5f/tenor.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 29, 2020, 05:14:42 pm
Ugggh. The "deep-dive" on the gitHUB was just filehandling instructions for config.ini; not any kind of in-depth study of the various settings. As usual with Marlin, I'll have to scroll through the whole effing thing and parse it as I'm reading.

This is going to be at least 2 coffees worth...  |O

Man you should be thrilled - you can't buy fun like you're about to have.  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 29, 2020, 05:56:02 pm

oi.

Quote from: config.ini
#--------------------------------------------------------------------
# Supported Marlin Firmware Version
#--------------------------------------------------------------------
Minimum Marlin Firmware Version: 2.0.5.4
#  Distribution date: 2020-05-12
#  Source: https://github.com/MarlinFirmware/Marlin/releases
#

#  Note: Ensure that following options are enabled in Marlin firmware
#
#  M115_GEOMETRY_REPORT (in Configuration_adv.h)
#  M114_DETAIL  (in Configuration_adv.h)
#  REPORT_FAN_CHANGE (in Configuration_adv.h)
#  EMERGENCY_PARSER (in Configuration_adv.h)
#  SERIAL_FLOAT_PRECISION 4 (in Configuration_adv.h)
#  HOST_ACTION_COMMANDS  (in Configuration_adv.h)
#
# For printing from onboard SD
#
#  SDSUPPORT (in Configuration.h)
#  AUTO_REPORT_TEMPERATURES (in Configuration_adv.h)
#  AUTO_REPORT_SD_STATUS (in Configuration_adv.h)
#  LONG_FILENAME_HOST_SUPPORT (in Configuration_adv.h)
#  SDCARD_CONNECTION ONBOARD (in Configuration_adv.h)#

#--------------------------------------------------------------------
# General Settings
#--------------------------------------------------------------------

Welp, that didn't take long. Evidently there is something this thing expects to see from the serial comms that is only supported in Marlin 2.x.x. I'm still running the default FW
(with a few toggles switched on), which is based on Marlin 1.1.9.

Yeah.... not gonna eff with this anymore until I have the wiring for EXP-1 & EXP-2 figured out and I can at least run the thing in 128x64 emulation mode. That was the primary reason for having this stoopit thing in the first place. Don't really care if the TS works at all; it was just a novelty. The novelty of which... has worn off. ;)

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 29, 2020, 06:08:44 pm
Ugggh. The "deep-dive" on the gitHUB was just filehandling instructions for config.ini; not any kind of in-depth study of the various settings. As usual with Marlin, I'll have to scroll through the whole effing thing and parse it as I'm reading.

This is going to be at least 2 coffees worth...  |O

Man you should be thrilled - you can't buy fun like you're about to have.  :-DD

 :-DD

Uh-huh... and of course, now I'm thinking aboot going through and making sure all those "required items" are toggled on... just to see what it does. ;)

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1119948;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 29, 2020, 06:26:42 pm
Welp, that didn't take long. Evidently there is something this thing expects to see from the serial comms that is only supported in Marlin 2.x.x. I'm still running the default FW
(with a few toggles switched on), which is based on Marlin 1.1.9.

You need two serial ports - Marlin 1.1.x only supports one. That's why I was asking you what your second serial port was set to ...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 29, 2020, 08:25:06 pm
I am blown away...
schematics, manual, top and bottom layer everything is super well documented and available here (https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-SKR-mini-E3/tree/master/hardware/BTT%20SKR%20MINI%20E3%20V2.0/Hardware)

BIGTREETECH finally someone in china is swimming upstream!

Well I take it back.... the relay board V1.2 is funny....   :horse:
fully story here, warning  :bullshit:

https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-Relay-V1.2/issues/7#issuecomment-735447011 (https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-Relay-V1.2/issues/7#issuecomment-735447011)

BTW, I want to sell my TFT touch... after one week of using it I do not like it and I miss my marlin, which is more useful to get the job done.
My personal opinion.....
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 29, 2020, 08:26:42 pm
Welp, that didn't take long. Evidently there is something this thing expects to see from the serial comms that is only supported in Marlin 2.x.x. I'm still running the default FW
(with a few toggles switched on), which is based on Marlin 1.1.9.

You need two serial ports - Marlin 1.1.x only supports one. That's why I was asking you what your second serial port was set to ...

Ahhh... now I see what you were getting at. I didn't see any reference to such anywhere in any of the documentation or install vids/articles I found. :-//

I think "need" is a bit excessive. Obvi, Longer/DIGGRO figured out how to do it with 1.1.9. ;)

I tried enabling what looked like the correct equivalents in Configuration_adv.h; still no joy. I've reverted now & packed the TFT 2.4 away; I have a couple other higher priority projects right now.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 29, 2020, 08:44:14 pm
I am blown away...   schematics, manual, top and bottom layer everything is super well documented and available here (https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-SKR-mini-E3/tree/master/hardware/BTT%20SKR%20MINI%20E3%20V2.0/Hardware)   BIGTREETECH finally someone in China is swimming upstream!   
Well I take it back.... the relay board V1.2 is funny....   :horse:   fully story here, warning  :bullshit:   https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-Relay-V1.2/issues/7#issuecomment-735447011 (https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-Relay-V1.2/issues/7#issuecomment-735447011)

BTW, I want to sell my TFT touch... after one week of using it I do not like it and I miss my Marlin, which is more useful to get the job done. My personal opinion.....

Hmmm... I guess I don't get why, unless you just want some of the money back; your controller has the EXP-1/EXP-2 ports, right? So either mode is dead-easy; switchable right from the panel... ???

re: the relay board... I certainly wouldn't bother with hot air just to remove a single SOIC-8; just a 4mm chisel-tip tinned a little heavy. Much less chance of damaging surrounding bits, especially fracture-prone MMLCCs.  :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 29, 2020, 10:36:50 pm
BTW, I want to sell my TFT touch... after one week of using it I do not like it and I miss my marlin, which is more useful to get the job done.
My personal opinion.....

I didn't like it at first but now I use it all the time. The only function I can't get to in the touch screen is the mesh levelling, but I just switch to the Marlin menu to do it if needed.

BTW Zucca, all I have to do to get to the Marlin menu is hold down the rotary knob for a few seconds - it clicks a few times - then two icons appear. One is for the touch screen mode and the other goes into the original Marlin menu. Do the same to return.

Does yours not have that capability?  :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on November 30, 2020, 04:02:08 am
Question?  Is mesh leveling convenient, but potentially harmful to print quality?

Here is my reasoning.  With manual leveling you are lining the bed up with the movement axes of the machine.  During printing the z-axis need only increment, making any backlash in this axis moot.  With mesh leveling the machine finds the best fit plane to the measured points and tries to construct the model perpendicular to that plane.  If the best fit plane is not perpendicular to the movement axes then z-axis travel up and down will be required,  possibly making backlash an issue.

For those using mesh leveling there might not be any observable problems if there is effectively no backlash, or if the table is actually perpendicular to the z-axis.  Has anyone noticed any cases where mesh bed leveling did have a negative effect on print outcome?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 30, 2020, 08:27:59 am
For those using mesh leveling there might not be any observable problems if there is effectively no backlash, or if the table is actually perpendicular to the z-axis.  Has anyone noticed any cases where mesh bed leveling did have a negative effect on print outcome?

I am pretty new in this 3DP circus, so here only my 2 cents based on my little experience.
Marlin is pretty much tested by a big army of people, very very common FW for a 3D printer. If mesh leveling would have been  the cause of a negative effect, me and you will be not the first to notice it.
I trust every function in Marlin, and if you read the configxxx.h they describe as "experimental" the functions which are still not mature as the other ones.. so I trust that Marlin mesh leveling will do his job.

In real life this is what I learned: a glass bed makes the real difference not the leveling process. Of couse you need to get that bed aligned. If you do the alignment correctly the difference are minimal in the end regardless which alignment you choose. Glass bed is a must. IMHO
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 30, 2020, 08:31:11 am
Does yours not have that capability?  :-//

Yes and every single time I ask myself why I need the touch mode, I have octoprint a Marlin display. I do not need anything else.
the TFT touch is just an annoying extra which most in the cases is on my way.

Example when I print with octoprint I do not see a print status as in the marlin display. This is very annoying for me and I need to go switch to marlin all the time.
Of course I could leave it there in Marlin mode, but meehh I prefer optically the original LCD one.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on November 30, 2020, 12:19:39 pm
Question?  Is mesh leveling convenient, but potentially harmful to print quality?

No. Never seen any issues with it.

Quote
Here is my reasoning.  With manual leveling you are lining the bed up with the movement axes of the machine.  During printing the z-axis need only increment, making any backlash in this axis moot.  With mesh leveling the machine finds the best fit plane to the measured points and tries to construct the model perpendicular to that plane.  If the best fit plane is not perpendicular to the movement axes then z-axis travel up and down will be required,  possibly making backlash an issue.

For those using mesh leveling there might not be any observable problems if there is effectively no backlash, or if the table is actually perpendicular to the z-axis.  Has anyone noticed any cases where mesh bed leveling did have a negative effect on print outcome?

Yes what you said is true, there are slight up and down adjustments at first. Very slight. However, you set a parameter called fade-out and the adjustments will cease after x.x mm set in a menu. My fade-out is set to 4 mm. After that the print runs machine-true level, the bed is no longer an issue.

There is effectively no backlash anyway on such a very slowly moving vertical system as this, with weight pressing down all the time. The weight of the Z axis components are constantly pushing down whether its going up or down. The top of the lead-screw threads are in constant contact with the bottom of the nut threads. For the existing backlash to come into play, the system would have to accelerate down faster than the weight of the Z components could compensate for. It will never do that.

If it was X/Y movement there would be backlash using a lead screw (if not compensated by an anti-backlash nut or some other system). But the printer uses belts for those. Even TH3D states this about the anti-backlash nut you can get for it:

Quote
"Helps prevent Z gantry from dropping down when motors turn off"

https://www.th3dstudio.com/product/upgraded-leadscrew-nut-for-creality-printers-anti-backlash-nut/ (https://www.th3dstudio.com/product/upgraded-leadscrew-nut-for-creality-printers-anti-backlash-nut/)

That's really the only claim they make for it.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on November 30, 2020, 01:38:36 pm
just a 4mm chisel-tip tinned a little heavy. Much less chance of damaging surrounding bits, especially fracture-prone MMLCCs.  :-//

PTTC-704!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on November 30, 2020, 03:35:22 pm
just a 4mm chisel-tip tinned a little heavy. Much less chance of damaging surrounding bits, especially fracture-prone MMLCCs.  :-//

PTTC-704!

Tweezers are nice, but not a necessity with chips this small. Technique is all that's needed. ;)

mnem
*missing my MetCal*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on December 01, 2020, 08:27:09 am
Marlin display says fan 100% but the cooling part fan does not spin.  |O
I hope it is not a (µC) HW problem.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on December 01, 2020, 12:31:00 pm
Marlin display says fan 100% but the cooling part fan does not spin.  |O
I hope it is not a (µC) HW problem.

Fan no worky ...  :(

 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on December 01, 2020, 01:31:36 pm
Fan no worky ...  :(
Fan or fan power pin b0rked?  When testing the fan power pin, do remember to load it with a small power resistor (say 200 ohms) when measuring the voltage.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 01, 2020, 02:58:09 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1121400;image)

Most likely a pin assignment issue in your extruder fan definition and/or layer fan definition; FAN and FAN0 do each have a open-drain FET in the (-) side of the circuit. Schematic sez the MINI E3 has the (+) pin on both connected directly to VBB; I don't see any evidence of a fuse or polyfuse in those power supply circuits.

mnem
 :popcorn:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on December 01, 2020, 02:59:34 pm
Damn you Zucca! All this talk of broken fans came through the internet and zapped mine!

 :wtf:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 01, 2020, 03:10:13 pm
Oh, what's a little metal fatigue between friends...?  ;)


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=953118;image)

Now you know why I'm so anal aboot doing proper strain reliefs during the initial build; if you don't do it then, it doesn't happen until something like this happens. By then, who knows how many wires are hanging on by a thread...  :scared:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2974438/#msg2974438 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg2974438/#msg2974438)

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on December 01, 2020, 03:14:27 pm
I am sorry, I did not know to have such super powers.
well time to get a better one.

anyhow if I disconnet the cable and apply 24V the fan spins...

Will find out...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on December 01, 2020, 03:14:50 pm
Oh, what's a little metal fatigue between friends...?  ;)

Yep - repetitive motion injury.  :-DD

How about me putting a little dab of hot snot there over both wires mnem - whatddya think?  :-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 01, 2020, 03:17:45 pm
Hot snot on a part of the printer which entire raison d'etre is to melt thermoplastic... What could possibly go wrong...?  :-DD

No, seriously... once you get it all soldered back together, either make a bit of bracketry out of metal or design & print one up which holds the entire wire bundle fast against the X-Axis/Extruder roller bracket, so none of the wire ends move when the X-axis moves. You don't have to make it as uber as I did mine; I just had some aluminum strip exactly the right size handy.

mnem
 :P

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on December 01, 2020, 03:19:05 pm
Hot snot on a part of the printer which entire raison d'etre is to melt thermoplastic... What could possibly go wrong...?  :-DD

mnem
 :P

No it won't melt there. Here, I'll do it and prove it.  8)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 01, 2020, 03:23:59 pm
Uh huh.... and what if the fan stops working? Where will all the heat from that radiator radiate to...? ;)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1121420;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1121424;image)

No, seriously... once you get it all soldered back together, either make a bit of bracketry out of metal or design & print one up which holds the entire wire bundle fast against the X-Axis/Extruder roller bracket, so none of the wire ends move when the X-axis moves. You don't have to make it as uber as I did mine; I just had some aluminum strip exactly the right size handy. :-+

mnem
 8)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on December 01, 2020, 03:58:03 pm
Uh huh.... and what if the fan stops working? Where will all the heat from that radiator radiate to...? ;)

LOL - if it ever gets hot enough due to a failure to melt a small dab of hot glue on the back of the fan (which wouldn't be of any concern in any case) - I'll have a lot more worries than that.  :-DD

But it won't melt there. If it ever does you will be the first I'll report it to.

Repair done.  :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on December 01, 2020, 04:07:45 pm
FWIW, I always use (gasket) silicone for those.  Also works to reduce vibrations if the fan touches metal.  The lower the modulus, the better.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on December 01, 2020, 04:11:26 pm
FWIW, I always use (gasket) silicone for those.  Also works to reduce vibrations if the fan touches metal.  The lower the modulus, the better.

These machines can certainly be improved upon that's for sure.  :-+

Like the fan wires. I'd have used silicone insulated highly flexible wires for the fans. I have some of that kind of wire, but right now I'm not going to re-run wiring. I have some things to print ...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on December 01, 2020, 04:16:43 pm
There is so much chinesium here.... but my friends, we will win.
My dual Z cnc plate is coming....

now back to that stupid fan
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on December 01, 2020, 05:28:31 pm
Okay, I swapped in FW the two pins FAN1 and FAN0 and now the colling fan is working but the other one is not.
So it is a Firmware problem not an hardware one.

Maybe since I hack a fan more with the DCDC to control the controller fan, Marlin knows my board can support only two fans and somehow drop the first fan....
Will investigate.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 01, 2020, 09:18:50 pm
Uh huh.... and what if the fan stops working? Where will all the heat from that radiator radiate to...? ;)

LOL - if it ever gets hot enough due to a failure to melt a small dab of hot glue on the back of the fan (which wouldn't be of any concern in any case) - I'll have a lot more worries than that.  :-DD

But it won't melt there. If it ever does you will be the first I'll report it to.

Repair done.  :)

I guess my point was that there are so any easily broken wires right there; NOT putting a proper strain relief on the hotend is just inviting Murphy to make an example of you.

Next time it may be something you can't just solder together; like the thermistor or the hot wire to the heater cartridge. That's always fun when it gets loose near a similarly exposed wire connected to that big open-sink FET.  ;)

Bottom line is sure, I'm playing up the worst case scenario for the sake of argument. Even so... everything I suggested is a real possibility. :-\

mnem
"Bad crispy... BAD!!!" ~The Violator
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on December 01, 2020, 09:24:19 pm
Maybe since I hack a fan more with the DCDC to control the controller fan, Marlin knows my board can support only two fans and somehow drop the first fan....
Will investigate.

Took me only 5 hours but I won!

This (https://3dprinting.stackexchange.com/questions/6535/controlling-more-fans-with-ramps-board) saved my ass!

Basically:

Code: [Select]
#define USE_CONTROLLER_FAN
#if ENABLED(USE_CONTROLLER_FAN)
  #define FAN2_PIN PC12                  // Increase number of fans in Marlin // Zuk
  #define CONTROLLER_FAN_PIN FAN2_PIN    // Set a custom pin for the controller fan // Zuk use pin PWR-DET
  //#define CONTROLLER_FAN_USE_Z_ONLY    // With this option only the Z axis is considered
  //#define CONTROLLER_FAN_IGNORE_Z      // Ignore Z stepper. Useful when stepper timeout is disabled.
  #define CONTROLLERFAN_SPEED_MIN      0 // (0-255) Minimum speed. (If set below this value the fan is turned off.)
  #define CONTROLLERFAN_SPEED_ACTIVE   0 // (0-255) Active speed, used when any motor is enabled // Zuk FAN on LOW
  #define CONTROLLERFAN_SPEED_IDLE   255 // (0-255) Idle speed, used when motors are disabled // Zuk FAN off HIGH
  #define CONTROLLERFAN_IDLE_TIME     60 // (seconds) Extra time to keep the fan running after disabling motors
  //#define CONTROLLER_FAN_EDITABLE      // Enable M710 configurable settings
  #if ENABLED(CONTROLLER_FAN_EDITABLE)
    #define CONTROLLER_FAN_MENU          // Enable the Controller Fan submenu
  #endif
#endif


Marlin counts how many fans you have by counting the FANx_PIN used... since I had only FAN_PIN and FAN1_PIN defined, it was not playing well with 3 fans.
My balls ... yes you know.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 01, 2020, 09:38:20 pm
Yup. Been dere, dunnat.

It's a bit of a dick aboot adding thermistors when you don't have a extra extruder too... the easiest way is to just define it as CHAMBER TEMP. ;)

EDIT FOR THOSE PLAYING ALONG AT HOME: Be mindful that if you want to control fan speed, you have to find a free pin that can do PWM output. If just ON/OFF, pretty much any multi I/O pin can be assigned.

mnem
Well played!  :clap:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on December 01, 2020, 10:00:55 pm
Bottom line is sure, I'm playing up the worst case scenario for the sake of argument. Even so... everything I suggested is a real possibility. :-\

Mnem's contributions as "devil's advocate" are well appreciated .... so much so that I've heard Lucifer has brought in his lawyers for preparation of a "cease and desist" order, 'cause Mnem is making him nervous.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on December 01, 2020, 10:03:51 pm
Even so... everything I suggested is a real possibility. :-\

So is being struck by a meteorite ...

From the anti-devil's advocate  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 02, 2020, 12:41:37 am
I can't believe I actually have to argue this...  strain-reliefs on a thing made of moving wires is nothing less an obvious necessity, FFS. :palm:

We all know the ol' tinkerdwagon can agitate with the best of 'em... and I do love me a joke. But these things are defined as "hobbyist" and "experimental prototyping" for a reason; they simply are not inherently safe.

The technology on the whole is half-finished at best; every last component of the things has a dozen ways it can fail spectacularly, and every last part of the thing is full of fire, just looking for a place to get out. Even the best-known names have a history of shit burning up; Hell, there are two safety advisories for things than can catch fire on my brand-new CR6-SE, and that's aboot as close to turnkey as you're going to get in this class of printer.

We STILL haven't even established a mandatory thermal runaway protocol; manufacturers are still today shipping units with it disabled in firmware, and lets be frank... a little software is hardly a proper replacement for at least a single thermal fuse, which is required even on a $8 hairdryer.

So please, don't be so flippant... it encourages a careless attitude in those playing along at home, and the odds of a printer catching fire are a helluva lot higher than being struck by a meteorite, or lightning, or a car, or even getting free money from the ATM.

Cheers,

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1035040;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 02, 2020, 12:51:18 am
FWIW, I always use (gasket) silicone for those.  Also works to reduce vibrations if the fan touches metal.  The lower the modulus, the better.

Yup. I was aboot to suggest that as a better choice. ;)

If you have 2 smooth clean surfaces with ~1cm2 covalent area or more, clear silicone has remarkable holding strength and heat resistance.  I use ordinary household 100% clear silicone sealant/caulking for a host of applications up to 200°C or so... some can be used up to 250°C, and it doesn't have to be any of that special "Hi-Temp" stuff that costs a fortune.

mnem
It pays to read the label.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on December 02, 2020, 01:09:46 am
I can't believe I actually have to argue this...  strain-reliefs on a thing made of moving wires is nothing less an obvious necessity, FFS. :palm:

Sorry but the repair I made is sufficient and will likely not fail again. There is no need for more strain relief in the area at this time. The other wires show no signs of any wear. The reason this wire broke is due to insufficient length from the last repair - not because of insufficient strain relief. The strain relief I have is more than adequate.

I would like to quote from the old TV show Kung Fu, when Master Po was teaching Caine another lesson, his advice -

"Accept the ways of others, respect first your own"

Good evening.  :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 02, 2020, 03:37:13 am
I can't believe I actually have to argue this...  strain-reliefs on a thing made of moving wires is nothing less an obvious necessity, FFS. :palm:

Sorry but the repair I made is sufficient and will likely not fail again. There is no need for more strain relief in the area at this time. The other wires show no signs of any wear. The reason this wire broke is due to insufficient length from the last repair - not because of insufficient strain relief. The strain relief I have is more than adequate.

I would like to quote from the old TV show Kung Fu, when Master Po was teaching Caine another lesson, his advice -

"Accept the ways of others, respect first your own"

Good evening.  :)
So you do have some form of strain relief? Why are we having this discussion then? You already know it is important. ;)

mnem
*toddles off to ded*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on December 02, 2020, 06:00:06 am
Sorry if I came across as dismissive to any safety related matters.  I am anything but.

The role of devils advocate is often an essential one - and that's in addition to offering aid based on experience.  I would consider withholding any advice on safety as negligence and culpability if anything were to go sour.



As for the extension of the concept to a cease and desist order ... that was meant purely as fun (in a sideways dig at our resident dwagon.)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 02, 2020, 04:01:55 pm
And it was taken exactly that way... don't worry. The dwagon's hide is thick; he can handle a little poking. ;)

As for the Devil... he kicked me out for trying to take the place over.  >:D

mnem
Lawyers can be tolerated... I prefer mine ground to a fine paste. Then applied directly to the buttocks.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1122052;image)


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on December 03, 2020, 11:06:53 am
As for the Devil... he kicked me out for trying to take the place over.  >:D

Yep....  That's the path I was heading down.   ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on December 03, 2020, 08:34:32 pm
Today is the day.
Today we will rejoyce togheter.
We won the battle.
We did it.


8 888888888o.      8 8888      88        .8.          8 8888                    8888888888',8888'
8 8888    `^888.   8 8888      88       .888.         8 8888                           ,8',8888' 
8 8888        `88. 8 8888      88      :88888.        8 8888                          ,8',8888'   
8 8888         `88 8 8888      88     . `88888.       8 8888                         ,8',8888'   
8 8888          88 8 8888      88    .8. `88888.      8 8888                        ,8',8888'     
8 8888          88 8 8888      88   .8`8. `88888.     8 8888                       ,8',8888'     
8 8888         ,88 8 8888      88  .8' `8. `88888.    8 8888                      ,8',8888'       
8 8888        ,88' ` 8888     ,8P .8'   `8. `88888.   8 8888                     ,8',8888'       
8 8888    ,o88P'     8888   ,d8P .888888888. `88888.  8 8888                    ,8',8888'         
8 888888888P'         `Y88888P' .8'       `8. `88888. 8 888888888888           ,8',8888888888888 


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1122868;image)

I can't believe that CNC plate was just perfect,

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1122864;image)

I love my Mitutoyo even more than before..... I need to buy another one.
Print size stock: 220x220x300
Print size now: 230x230x320.

... and when I say nothing wobbles, I mean


 #     # ####    #    #  ####  #####  ######    #    #  ####  #####  #####  #      ######  #### 
 ##   # #    #    ##  ## #    # #    # #         #    # #    # #    # #    # #      #      #     
 # #  # #    #    # ## # #    # #    # #####     #    # #    # #####  #####  #      #####   #### 
 #  # # #    #    #    # #    # #####  #         # ## # #    # #    # #    # #      #           #
 #   ## #    #    #    # #    # #   #  #         ##  ## #    # #    # #    # #      #      #    #
 #    #  ####     #    #  ####  #    # ######    #    #  ####  #####  #####  ###### ######  #### 

                                           
                                                                                               

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 03, 2020, 09:36:46 pm
I thought you were going with a 3-stepper arrangement...? :o

That price included the plate? Looks like 4-5mm thick... ~US$83... pretty reasonable considering the work involved. Hydro-cut? Did you tap the threads yourself?

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on December 04, 2020, 08:59:34 am
I thought you were going with a 3-stepper arrangement...? :o

If you have a Fiat 500 you can't turn it in a Ferrari, the best you can do is

(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_H0LxxWmlPg8/RvBHitzqUjI/AAAAAAAAACc/xQFf2A9eSm4/s1600/hot500-dragster.gif)

68 Euro just the plate, total upgrade cost was about 100€.... I believe was laser cutter and normal CNC stuff...
No, I did not cut the threads myself.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 04, 2020, 03:52:45 pm
 :-DD Understood.

I meant did the ~US$83 include material, or was that just the labor. If he threaded the holes too, then def a good deal; usually as much time in that as the rest of the job put together.  :-+   Especially if a tap breaks, which is not uncommon with aluminum plate. :palm:

As for 3-steppers... I thought your plan was to have on the front one slider/rail in the center, two leadscrews at the corners, not t'other way around. That's also why I strongly suggested a sync belt. ;)

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on December 05, 2020, 07:20:08 pm
Regarding the Marlin bed leveling, I found this video on UBL very interesting:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONpKxkil16Q (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONpKxkil16Q)

I will try now the UBL manual on 4x4.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on December 05, 2020, 08:44:15 pm
Done with cold bed

Send: G29 T
Recv:
Recv: Bed Topography Report:
Recv:
Recv:     (  1,229)              (229,229)
Recv:         0       1       2       3
Recv:  3 | +0.015  -0.020  -0.020  +0.050
Recv:    |
Recv:  2 | -0.055  -0.105  -0.120  -0.045
Recv:    |
Recv:  1 | -0.070  -0.105  -0.115  -0.045
Recv:    |
Recv:  0 |[+0.025] -0.010  -0.005  +0.070
Recv:         0       1       2       3
Recv:     (  1,  1)              (229,  1)
Recv:
Recv: ok


UBL FTW!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 06, 2020, 07:10:44 pm
*pokes xrunner's avatar with a stick*

boo!

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on December 06, 2020, 07:21:29 pm
Okay I am now 100% UBL 5x5 with no probe! I will never go back, it is fantastic!
The documentation on Marlin for an UBL with manual probing is not the best, bur with a little bit of patience I managed to get it up and running.
Problem you need a board that can handle >256KB of juice.

On other news:
I am now using the old magnet bed as a mouse pad.
I never felt a mouse flying under my hand like now! Why I did not put it under my mouse immediately after installing the glass bed?
whoooosh...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 08, 2020, 03:13:45 am
CR-6 auto-leveling just plain works. Even my Diggro is pretty close to zero assache since I replaced the crunky rollers on the Y-axis. :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on December 08, 2020, 10:10:03 am
CR-6 auto-leveling just plain works.

Mine worked too, I just wanted to test the next level... UBL!
Is the CR-6 the one with a load cell? Oh yes it is.....

The idea is nice... but I think it is overkilling.... A shim gauge set will be my next toys for allignment, and then I call it done for ever.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 08, 2020, 04:09:45 pm
Naahhh... there are just too effing many variables involved in using measured current from a leadscrew/motor(s) as a bed sensor; too many places where a change in the inherent loading/friction of the setup can create an inaccurate reading, ultimately leading to a smashed glass or damaged polymer print surface. The engineer in me just shrieks at the idea of having the measurement device be part of the motor device; it's like having a PID loop programmed so the changing weight of the PID loop itself affects the self-calibration of the PID loop. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=693504;image)

Enjoy at your own peril, he says. ;)   The load cell in the hotend is the obvious choice, and it is so cheap. You can build the whole thing, bespoke design hotend and all for ~US$30. Only weakness is I dunno if it can handle the added weight of a DD extruder; that of course would be a matter of empirical design.  :-//

mnem
"Good night, and may your god go with you."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 08, 2020, 06:32:40 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1125946;image)   

This will be the back leg for a 10" digital photo frame I picked up at the Thrift. :-+

Getting better at Frustion360; I had a clear plan of how to make this from the start, including optimizing the design for flat printing. Total design time ~45 minutes. Currently printing at 0.20 LH, 40% Infill, Concentric pattern, 1.5mm wall/top/bottom thickness. We'll see how it works out; this is the first iteration based on my best guesses & rough measurements.

mnem
I prepared Explosive Runes this morning.


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on December 08, 2020, 10:40:04 pm
I would like to see how much patience you will loose with FreeCAD. Personally if I can't save the project on my HDD... I go  :scared:
UUhhh "concentric pattern" I need to try that, did you choose it because that thing need to flex?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 09, 2020, 04:24:38 am
I chose concentric for cosmetics and for the fact it builds the deposition mostly in the longitudinal direction, which makes it strongest in the correct plane.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1126432;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1126436;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1126440;image)

This is the promise of home 3DP fulfilled; a few minutes designing, set the machine to work and go on aboot your business. Come back in a few hours and you have a complete, ready to use part waiting to be popped off the bed and put to use.

And now a digital picture frame that was destined to become eWaste becomes an extra Xmas prezzie to mom-in-law; one we know she'll love as it comes loaded with pics of us she hasn't seen. :-+

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on December 09, 2020, 04:35:47 am
Totally agree.  Action figures and Millenium Falcon models are fun, but the real benefit for 3D printing for people with some technical skills is making repair parts, making custom devices and the like with low input of personal time.  Telling the robot to go fabricate is far more appealing than a day of milling, filing, drilling and otherwise shaping.  And there is a lot of satisfaction out of recovering a previously unusable object.  Battery compartment covers alone are worth it, even though they are usually fairly challenging to 3D print.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 17, 2020, 06:40:20 am
No comment...  >:D   https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4589796 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4589796)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1133446;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1133450;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1133454;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1133466;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1133470;image[img])(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1133478;image)

mnem
*toddles off to ded*    :=\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr.B on December 17, 2020, 07:24:44 am
...but the real benefit for 3D printing for people with some technical skills is making repair parts, making custom devices and the like with low input of personal time.

This!
The majority of my 3dp projects are practical, replacements for broken parts, specialist parts or adapters that you cannot just buy, or improvements on existing designs.


*toddles off to ded*    :=\

I hope that is *Bed* and not *ded*...   ;)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tautech on December 17, 2020, 08:14:41 am
...but the real benefit for 3D printing for people with some technical skills is making repair parts, making custom devices and the like with low input of personal time.

This!
The majority of my 3dp projects are practical, replacements for broken parts, specialist parts or adapters that you cannot just buy, or improvements on existing designs.
You are aware of this thread are you ?
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/)
*toddles off to ded*    :=\

I hope that is *Bed* and not *ded*...   ;)
Ded as in out to it in bed. Yep just mnem saying he's had enough for the day and if truth be known after an evening tipple I'll be right behind him.  :phew:
Most of the day at the lathe was damn tiring work !  :=\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr.B on December 17, 2020, 08:29:52 am
Semantics of language.
I get it...
*Dead to the world* in your bed...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 18, 2020, 04:02:57 am
Yup. I put the last dash on DP just before 2AM. I was beyond dead on my feet; all I wanted to be was dead to the world in bed. :-+

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1049326;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 20, 2020, 11:37:19 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1135588;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1135724;image)

Boring mundane household object print number 137: Hooks to hang my headphonezz up.

mnem
*yawwnnnn*

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 21, 2020, 03:13:17 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1135918;image)

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4679704 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4679704)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1136014;image)

 :-DD

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4670812 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4670812)
Gallows humor; Please don't jump my shit. Even tho I probably deserve it. ;)

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1135922;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on December 21, 2020, 08:17:46 pm
I like the BMG direct-drive extruder; it uses standard parts... except the cloners have produced a nice CNC version for 1/2 the price. And it's not very 'fang-friendly due to tension lever placement.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1086954;image)

https://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?catId=0&initiative_id=SB_20201011072619&SearchText=Titan+direct

Then of course there's the clone Titan direct-drive extruder, which can be had for ~$50 plus you figure out the mounting. I've toyed with that one for a while myself, but it is only single-side drive on the filament and... *head explodes*

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=818235;image)

Well now I want to go direct drive hot end... I was waiting until Xmas to pull the trigger, now it is about time in my crazy life.
The links above are expired and I need some advise I can't find what I need on aliex...

Here are my choices so far:

1) Trianglelab Matrix Extruder 86.60 USD (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/1005001723097241.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.e2d6627dfQgSjI&algo_pvid=5df33ae0-cba2-4951-aa6f-b5df44d55b68&algo_expid=5df33ae0-cba2-4951-aa6f-b5df44d55b68-5&btsid=0bb0624416085785581377578e0897&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_)

(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H2409f9bc1cbb4250b81d7072bb8ad96c6.jpg)

I like it. very good review here (https://3dprintbeginner.com/trianglelab-matrix-extruder-review-hemera-alternative/).

2) Trianglelab titan extruder full kit Titan Aero Volcano 67.95 USD (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32948416008.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.26172b8dMcR3Jz&algo_pvid=c2cbafce-93e9-4ccf-ac85-e8993a23d789&algo_expid=c2cbafce-93e9-4ccf-ac85-e8993a23d789-0&btsid=0b0a555e16085803550404793ea2e3&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_)

(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H5c89a72885b04ce0947e7ce65391b68d3.jpg)

this is less sexy for me...

3) trianglelab AL-BMG-MQ Extruder Mosquito HOTEND 56.90 USD (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000091579318.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.4e5a68f25qNcuw&algo_pvid=59dde0de-76f3-4541-8d75-152c2a8f1607&algo_expid=59dde0de-76f3-4541-8d75-152c2a8f1607-1&btsid=0bb0622a16085793523956192e774d&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_)

(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/H0dd1d98005634be6acb683b101c9d7a94.jpg)

but no hotend included... bah...

I also want to buy a cooler fang thing, like this one (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000312309571.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.26172b8dMcR3Jz&algo_pvid=c2cbafce-93e9-4ccf-ac85-e8993a23d789&algo_expid=c2cbafce-93e9-4ccf-ac85-e8993a23d789-26&btsid=0b0a555e16085803550404793ea2e3&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_) but I donno know if it is better to print something.... I would prefer metal but ... meeehhhh... I could survive without.
My point is since I buy a new hotend I would like to have something which can play well with a good coolind fan system... and here I get lost in the www...

Can you help me to waste my money properly?

Thanks
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 21, 2020, 10:19:41 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1136142;image)

LOL... the PetsFang works well, you just have to align it so it just clears the work so it mostly doesn't blow on the nozzle. Also, a hotend with a silicone sock that covers most of the nozzle really is a necessity, not an option; but I think that's true with any 'fang. 

When I say close, I'm talking like clearing the work by 1mm or so. The drawback to that is that if you have a print-fail that curls up, it'll do this. :palm: OTOH, that kind of fail is much less frequent with the 'fang because it will freeze the extrusion in midair... so then the choice becomes a matter of tuning.

I'm rocking the stock parts cooler right now on the Diggro; I never got around to putting the 'fang back on after I figured out that the SS nozzle was what was fucking with my head.

I liked that BMG-Mosquito clone I linked to a few pages back; I prefer the BMG extruder to the Titan in general, especially since I started using the CR-6, which stock extruder is similar geometry only pinion-idler instead of dual-pinion drive.

Definitely don't care for the Hemera clone; if you're going to clone a thing and make it weigh a ton... least you can do is get rid of the fucking modded stepper motor.   ::)

Non-standard stepper motor is a big non-starter for me.  :--

My best educated guess would be that the first thing to figure out is what you're looking to get out of DD... more precision/cleaner prints vs higher flow/faster prints vs working with more demanding filaments...?

mnem
 :popcorn:

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on December 21, 2020, 10:43:21 pm
Just to say thanks to you dwagon, you never let me down. Now I have to process what you wrote.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 21, 2020, 11:08:48 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1136158;image)

Here's attempt #2. Changes were:

Rotate 180° to present work better towards cooling fan.

Enable Bridging mode.

Flip so opening of whistle allows support on end of piston.

This prevents it from moving and falling off (Those loose bits in the above FAIL photo), giving the bridging filaments a solid base to be "thrown" from. In case you didn't know; the first cable or lattice crossing over any span to start the build is called "throwing the bridge" for this very reason. It is always the most hazardous part of the build. :-+

Meanwhile, I simply cannot get the vertical one to complete at ALL. It keeps printing voids in the walls and breaking in half. |O

EDIT:

Ahhh... I think I've figured it out. The profile for the CR6-SE has wall thickness at 1.2mm or 3 lines thick. After carefully following the preview in Cura, I can see several layers where this results in only one or two lines rendered in the GCODE because the walls of the model are only 2mm thick. After trying several different wall thickness settings and not being able to fix it, I blew up the model to 150% so the walls were thicker; this makes a 2 hour print now 5 hours... we'll see how it turns out.


mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1064602;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: raptor1956 on December 22, 2020, 03:19:22 am
Picked up an Anycubic Mono X resin printer as well as the Wash and Cure 2.0 and some resin and accessories.  Made the test print (cube) using the black Anycubic resin but when I went to use the Wash and Cure 2.0 I had a problem.  Put the print into the basket and the basket into the tub with a couple liters of IPA 99.9%, set the unit to 2 minute wash, pressed the button and ... nothing.  The display was on and counting down but the impeller didn't spin.  So I manually agitated the print then dried it then set the unit up for cure with the little turn-table and reflector. 

Set the cure to 2 minutes, pressed the button, the UV LED's came on but the turn-table did not spin.  I then manually rotated 90 degrees four time at 30 seconds each and the print appears just fine.

So I unplug the unit, remove the four top screws and peak inside and discover that the motor is not connected -- there is no cable and the cable isn't lying at the bottom of the box -- it was never installed.  Interestingly, I did receive a QC card indicating the unit had been tested and passed the tests!

I'd order from Amazon and have started the return process with replacement of the defective unit, should take a couple days to get so lets hope this one works.

I should add that my interest is in making engineering/prototype scales models and have little interest in the action figures that seem to dominate the 3D printer world for application -- I just don't get the whole idea of 40 year old guys playing with D&D figures.


Brian
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr.B on December 22, 2020, 03:38:18 am
My Anycubic Mono X resin printer and Wash and Cure machine arrived a couple of weeks ago.
I have not had a chance to even get them out of the boxes yet.
Been too busy building a new workbench and well lit fume cupboard for them.
I will post further in the *SLA 3D Printer yet?* thread when I get closer to testing.
Hope mine works...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 22, 2020, 05:36:17 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1136224;image)

Now I have "successful prints" in 100% & 150% scale. "Successful" in that they printed as they should and I was able to separate the supports, and the slides work...

But neither one whistles worth a shit, and for sure they don't slide-whistle.  :palm:

After several attempts at filing a sharp edge on the lip, I was able to get them to whistle with the plunger all the way down if I was careful and got the embouchure and breathing just right. Move it even slightly and nada.

I have to wonder if the designer ever actually tried the damn thing...  :o

mnem
*Toddling off to ded*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on December 22, 2020, 07:15:25 am
Did a web search to find the whistle you are printing and found the comment by the designer "I never designed whistles before".  The design seems somewhat off of the classics that have been around for centuries, made from willow sticks.  The "notch" seems both steep and deep.  While looking for that design I found several that seem more likely to work, though those also have comments on tuning to make them work better.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 22, 2020, 04:37:40 pm
Yeah... Thingiverse was sucking out loud yesterday morning. I couldn't get search to work at all; zero results on any query. That was the first "likely suspect" I found on MyMiniFactory. :P

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1062766;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 22, 2020, 05:04:57 pm
From the JUST BECAUSE YOU ASKED Dept...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1136544;image)

Wife (Looking at filament loaded on my Diggro): "I see you have my favorite color blue... why don't you make me something?"

"Okay... look on Thingiverse.com and find something you like."

"Thingy-verse... with a 'y'...?"

"No... t-h-i-n-g-i-v-e-r-s-e-dot-com..."

*we continue our Monopoly game while she looks on her smartPwn; a few minutes later she shows me a TARDIS model*

"Didn't I just give you one of those that levitates...?"

"That's on my desk at school. This is perfect for that color; I want a ornament for the tree."

"Of course my love... I'll get it started right away."

I scale and slice the model between turns; it is printing before the game is over. The next morning, I come down to see it finished; I'm not exactly best pleased. I do cleanup and solder-melt a hanging eye into it anyways, figuring I can try again with TARDIS2.0.

"I'm sorry baby... the POLICE BOX lettering didn't turn out that well due to having to scale it down to ornament size."

"Oh honey... it's perfect." *smoooooch*
Sometimes, it's just the doing what she asked that's the important part. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=938592;image)

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1136540;image)


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on December 22, 2020, 05:19:44 pm
Yeah, I have problems with thingiverse too.  I often get results I like better with an image search (search engine of your choice) for 3D models of xxxx.   Then browse the images for things that look promising.  Which is how I found what you used.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 23, 2020, 04:49:52 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1136886;image)     https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:225714 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:225714)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1136882;image)     https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1183522 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1183522)

Currently printing these two overnight.  :-//

mnem
*knocks self unconscious with a leadscrew mallet*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 23, 2020, 06:24:41 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1137216;image)     https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:225714

This one actually works, but it took a half-hour of sanding to get the slider to fit and to get a decent sharp edge on the ramp.  |O

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA-7epVDcIE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sA-7epVDcIE)

Tone is fair decent, as per demo vid posted with the Thing.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 24, 2020, 01:31:19 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1137422;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1137426;image)

Boring mundane household object print number 138: Feets for the borked-up legs on my bedframe.

Non-default Settings: 0.28mm LH, no adhesion aids, bottom layer 5mm with Zig-Zag pattern for strength against the thin edge of the tube, 1.2mm wall thickness, Infill manually set to 1mm spacing and grid pattern for rigid sidewalls.

mnem
*yawwnnnn*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 24, 2020, 02:15:24 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1137438;image)

Just to see if it'll work. 

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1137448;image)

               Yup. >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 28, 2020, 03:56:21 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1139842;image)

Currently printing this to go under my 54645A; idea is to make the space occupied by my new UTG962E arb a little more user-friendly. Well, printing the first half of it. Even at 0.28 LH and 20% infill, still 11 hours worth. :o

At least that's what Cura sez; It's been printing for 2 hours and only at 8%.  :P

mnem
*toddling off to ded* :=\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 28, 2020, 03:35:02 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1140142;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1140146;image)   

Left side finished. Looking good, fits the 54645A like it was made for it. Which it was. ;) Now printing right side. :-+

mnem
*wanders off in search of caffeine*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Canis Dirus Leidy on December 28, 2020, 06:30:09 pm
Don't throw away your VHS tapes! You can always make a filament for a 3D printer out of it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fh9-WyRe9s&feature=emb_title (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fh9-WyRe9s&feature=emb_title)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 28, 2020, 10:31:58 pm
Now I'm waiting for Part II and Part III; where he makes filament out of the ABS shells and the Nylon spindles & rollers.

Poor bastard... I guess it's true what they say aboot people being desperate for everything over there.  ;) What's his address? I'll mail him a roll of real filament.  :-DD

mnem
 >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 28, 2020, 10:37:08 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1140142;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1140146;image)   Left side finished. Looking good, fits the 54645A like it was made for it. Which it was. ;) Now printing right side. :-+

mnem
*wanders off in search of caffeine*

7.5 hours; 40% done. Fortunately, printing a wedge does progress exponentially. :P

mnem
*goes back to hoeing out his drawers in anticipation of the new cart setup*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Simon on December 28, 2020, 10:54:42 pm
why don't you stop posting like this is your personal blog? No one gives a toss what you are printing, sod off!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tautech on December 28, 2020, 11:05:48 pm
why don't you stop posting like this is your personal blog? No one gives a toss what you are printing, sod off!
Bit harsh.  :-//
Acting on a complaint are you ?

Others may well be interested in what 3d printers can do as I am.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Canis Dirus Leidy on December 28, 2020, 11:56:03 pm
Now I'm waiting for Part II and Part III; where he makes filament out of the ABS shells and the Nylon spindles & rollers.
(grinning by all 42 teeth)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRwdie6QDPY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XRwdie6QDPY)

P.S. Well, there is a rational grain here, if you look at the prices of conductive filaments.  And then the idea of making a filament from an old magnetic tape does not seem so barbaric anymore.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 29, 2020, 12:22:01 am
why don't you stop posting like this is your personal blog? No one gives a toss what you are printing, sod off!

What the actual fuck...?

Seriously? Who gives half a damn if I post that...? At least I put something here from time to time. Sure, we can let the thread dry up and blow away; just that much less content for Dave.

Because you know, there's so much aboot 3DP on here already... :palm:

Aside from that, like most of my posts I include actual details of what I'm doing, the settings I use, and why. This is the sort of thing people into 3DP do care aboot.

mnem
*back out into hell*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 29, 2020, 12:51:17 am
Now I'm waiting for Part II and Part III; where he makes filament out of the ABS shells and the Nylon spindles & rollers.
(grinning by all 42 teeth)   https://youtu.be/XRwdie6QDPY (https://youtu.be/XRwdie6QDPY)

P.S. Well, there is a rational grain here, if you look at the prices of conductive filaments.  And then the idea of making a filament from an old magnetic tape does not seem so barbaric anymore.

Oklay... interesting from a novelty standpoint, yeah; I'm not sure this guy intends to actually try and make it something viable. The process control required to make that highly resisitive filament something refined and predictable enough value to actually be useful is probably beyond this guy's amateur lab; and then there's the simple assache of acquiring sufficient raw materials to produce any real volume. His testing shows resistance of ~1MΩ/inch; it is pretty much useless for anything at voltages low enough to use it safely. And then there's the fact of being a resistor composed of thermoplastic... it's like making a potholder out of butter.  :-//

As for the filament from face masks project... I'm not in the least bit convinced the end product is safe to expose other people to; just too many vectors for contamination in his process.  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1107972;image)I'm literally cringing here just looking at that.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on December 29, 2020, 01:34:23 am
why don't you stop posting like this is your personal blog? No one gives a toss what you are printing, sod off!

Simon as you are supposed to be a MODERATOR here act like one. NO ONE is making you read this or if you are subscribed then unsubscribe from the topic. Seriously way out of order AGAIN  >:(
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr.B on December 29, 2020, 04:58:03 am
MTCW…

I think Simon is being too harsh.
There are very few threads here covering 3DP.
Personally, I purchased my printers for making enclosures for my projects, as well as the odd adaptor, etc.
I like to see what people are doing with their printers. It helps fuel the imagination.
All credit to @mnementh for posting layers, walls and infill – that is good information.
Even a follow-up with things like *Well, 20% infill was not enough for that boat anchor, try again*.

By the end of the week I will have finished my fume cupboard.
Since I started the other thread *SLA 3D printer yet?*, you can be sure I will be contributing to it…

Keep it up @mnementh.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 29, 2020, 06:42:59 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1140142;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1140146;image)   Left side finished. Looking good, fits the 54645A like it was made for it. Which it was. ;) Now printing right side. :-+

mnem
*wanders off in search of caffeine*

7.5 hours; 40% done. Fortunately, printing a wedge does progress exponentially. :P

mnem
*goes back to hoeing out his drawers in anticipation of the new cart setup*

Uggh. 14 hour print... test fit and I find I made a 5mm error on one of the walls, which put the rear foot pocket offset wrong by 5mm.  :palm: And I measured it twice! only thing I can figure is I must've measured the same side again...

Now printing V2.  ::) Fortunately, fixing that error does save me ~2 hours of print time and filament.

For those who're interested:

BLACK PLA, Default Temps of 200°C/60°C, 0.28mm LH, 20% Infill Cubic pattern, 1.2mm walls, Brim adhesion, Only on Outside, 2mm wide, with Brim Distance at 0.2mm to make Brim easy to separate. No supports as no overhangs.

Printing Left side, I had RETRACTION turned OFF as it saved over 2 hours on the print (I always check on rectangular shapes; it can make a lot of time difference for just a little extra cleanup); however there were literally handfuls of strings diagonally across the inside corner. It cleaned up well as seen in my pics, but as I'm letting this one run overnight, I think I'm gonna let it do the work instead of me. ;)

mnem
*toddles off to ded* :=\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Simon on December 29, 2020, 08:14:29 am
Well I have had a few complaints but the topics that long that meh, do as you please only a few people will still be reading maybe those that don't like it should stop readitg.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on December 29, 2020, 08:22:44 am
And our complaints about YOU being rude? Ignored as per usual. Seriously learn some manners OR handle it via a PM even as is done elsewhere to keep the tone more civil instead of aggressive rants from a Mod >:(

Back when I started pushing THIS topic as a bit of a catch all for 3D printing along with some others it has ALWAYS contained projects of random, settings and non electronic items. There has been precisely ZERO complaints in the topic about frequency or posts or style of those of us posting here. It is an Informational thread and contains a lot of good background on the topic. No one is forcing ANYONE to read or be subscribed to this thread and non  contributing whiners should avoid doing so.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: RobinSm89 on December 29, 2020, 11:24:59 am
I watched a video about 3D printers all weekend. This is awesome. Now I really dream of buying this car for myself, I somehow did not pay attention to them before, but it turned out to be a very interesting thing!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: olkipukki on December 29, 2020, 12:51:44 pm
Now printing V2.  ::) Fortunately, fixing that error does save me ~2 hours of print time and filament.
:-+

Uggh. 14 hour print... test fit and I find I made a 5mm error on one of the walls, which put the rear foot pocket offset wrong by 5mm.  :palm: And I measured it twice! only thing I can figure is I must've measured the same side again...



I have a model that estimated printing time is.... over 40 hours (!!!)  :palm: :palm: :palm:
Not yet press 'Start' button, will keep for a couple weeks to cool my brain off until I forget how did all measurements etc
 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on December 29, 2020, 03:46:28 pm
What the actual fuck...?

Seriously? Who gives half a damn if I post that...? At least I put something here from time to time. Sure, we can let the thread dry up and blow away; just that much less content for Dave.

Because you know, there's so much aboot 3DP on here already... :palm:

Aside from that, like most of my posts I include actual details of what I'm doing, the settings I use, and why. This is the sort of thing people into 3DP do care aboot.

mnem
*back out into hell*
If I'm totally honest using the exact same posts here and in the TEA thread is bit much. Sharing is fine, double posting may be a bit overboard.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Simon on December 29, 2020, 03:48:21 pm
Shall we just drop it? The thread is that old that it does not matter.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 29, 2020, 04:32:39 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1140994;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1140998;image)

Okay... now what WAS a annoyance has cost me actual productivity and wasted filament: The shitty filename handling in printer firmware, which is compounded by Cura's insistence on prefixing all filenames with a printer descriptor in a really wasteful way. Between them, I have exactly 8 characters of useful filename on the CR-6SE, and what is displayed wastes 9 characters.  ::)

My Diggro's implementation is better; it handles 24 characters in the list, and up to 32 characters in the file Dialog when you select a file, but for some reason it turns a underscore into 3 wasted spaces.  ???  Neither firmware has any way to see the whole filename.  :palm:

I realize some of this is Marlin and some is the FW in the touch panel... but it's still a PITA to have to outwit the slicer and the FW when someone somewhere in either product should have seen what a dicksore it is and fixed it by now. I feel like I'm back in the stone age of MS-DOS with 8-character filename limit FFS.

HOW did this cost me productivity and wasted filament? Cura saved the revised file to my camera card which was plugged in elsewhere on the PC, and it did so without asking which card to save to. If I'd actually been able to see the entire filename on the printer, I'd have caught it at time of launch. But between the confluence of these 3 factors, I ran the print job all night... approx 7 hours of a 13 hour print... and didn't realize it was the same wrong model I'd already made.  |O

Yeah, sure... I coulda shoulda triple-checked the card from within Windoze before I plugged it into the printer... but in a 32-bit/64-bit world, we really shouldn't still be hamstrung this way.

The takeaway for me...? No matter how much you want the job done, it's not wise to launch a print run at 3AM when you're so tired your eyes are watering... :-\

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=985906;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 29, 2020, 08:02:46 pm
Urrrgh. Oklay... the prefix Cura uses is determined by using the first character of each word in the printer name in the Cura Profile, but this is not the same as the name you give it in Cura. So to set a simple 2 or 3 char prefix, you need to edit the Cura profile. And keep editing it every time Cura updates.  :palm:

Yup... just gonna turn the prefix off altogether: Settings> General> Opening and saving files> UNTICK Add machine prefix to job name.

mnem
Next.... victim.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on December 30, 2020, 12:16:40 am
Shall we just drop it? The thread is that old that it does not matter.

A bit like your SECOND Off topic post here dismissing the threads relevance within a day? Please unsubscribe as clearly YOU have no interest here while others reading and posting do :palm:

Urrrgh. Oklay... the prefix Cura uses is determined by using the first character of each word in the printer name in the Cura Profile, but this is not the same as the name you give it in Cura. So to set a simple 2 or 3 char prefix, you need to edit the Cura profile. And keep editing it every time Cura updates.  :palm:

Yup... just gonna turn the prefix off altogether: Settings> General> Opening and saving files> UNTICK Add machine prefix to job name.

mnem
Next.... victim.

So do I take it I shouldn't install Cura and use it anytime soon  ;D I did load up Cura in the middle of the year to try and went back to Prusa Slicer.

Tiredness and the file saving issue aside I have been keeping a one SD/printer thing 'standard' on my three. The LABELLED SD holders sit in the bits tray in front of the printer when the cards are in the printers. Touch wood this has worked fine 'so far' and it means that any sliced models on that card 'should' suit the printer it is in front of. Karma will no doubt bite me for this comment within the next ...... :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 30, 2020, 01:09:52 am
I like Cura... to me it the most user-friendly of the freebies, easily by a factor of 10; plus the feature-set just keeps getting better and better.  :-+

If I could be arsed to tinker in the Cura Profiles I could make a lot of stuff better aboot it; there are whole workshops online for Cura, just like every other bit of software involved. I think it's just a matter of what you get used to more than anything. I got used to EAGLE FFS...  |O

As for the cards... yeah, I have a similar sorting factor built-in, as the DIGGRO uses Micro-SD while the CR6 uses a standard SD card. And I have a couple old SanDisk PlusUSB SD cards I keep for just such devices. ;)

mnem
 :-/O

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 30, 2020, 01:38:01 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1141520;image)

This is probably my most ambitious design to date in terms of tolerances; it is a filament guide for my DIGGRO which uses PTFE tube tails and incorporates the filament sensor switch. Ever since I upgraded to the red dual-cog extruder, I've had the sensor just hanging off the filament. :palm:

Location of the switch against the filament feed and absolute location of the filament exit with regards the inlet on the extruder need to be pretty precise; we'll see how well I did.

Printing at 0.16mm LH, Default 200°C/60°C, NO Adhesion aids, Support Everywhere for the mounting slot, Walls 1.2mm/Top/Bottom 0.8mm thick, and infill again set manually at 1mm/Grid pattern as I'm putting screws through the piece and this makes thin plate-like parts much more rigid against compression. Bridging Mode is enabled in hopes it will make cleaner inside surfaces on the mounting slot. Orientation as seen left-to-right to best present work to cooling fan.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on December 30, 2020, 01:43:47 am
Way back when I did a similar one for the Ender/CR10 https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg1913924/#msg1913924 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/msg1913924/#msg1913924) The sweep up was to allow for top mounting of spools.

Also a non sensor version with the STL in a Zip file.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Tomorokoshi on December 30, 2020, 02:18:38 am
I just got a Creality CR-6 SE. By whatever measure it isn't the ideal machine, but it appears to have enough features that I can learn from and utilize it quite a bit for the initial intended applications.

I shopped around a little, and as a resource I used this actual thread. The "personal blogging" nature of the posts here are a good resource about issues one may encounter with a 3D printer, the nature and application of projects that are possible, techniques for using the software, methods of design for best results, sources of design files that may be useful, time and material estimates, and other such things.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 30, 2020, 04:01:41 am
I agree; like all of CReality's product, the CR6-SE is not the best printer out there; lots of others make more accurate and neater prints. There is only so much precision you can get out of V-channel and urethane rollers. :-//

That said... a few quirks aside (primarily the cheap power switches first-production-run units came with, and a sporadic QC issue with the MB), the CR6-SE is the closest to a turnkey solution I've seen from any of the China-Direct cheapies. Turn a few screws, plug in a couple cables and the fucking thing just plain works. 8) I see it as the perfect entry-level machine; cheap enough to get you started without major wallet pain, good enough a printer that it isn't wasted money when you are ready for a better machine.

Definitely a world of hurt less misery than my first Tevo Tarantula, I tell you whut.   :-+

@bean - OMG... page 6.  :o Was it really that long ago...?  :-DD

mnem
98 fukkin-percent!!!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 30, 2020, 05:19:41 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1141622;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1141626;image)   

Right side of wedge base is finally effing finished... and it fits the scope like it was made for it.  ;D This wedge raises the 54645A up 90mm at a point just behind the front feet; I put on rubber feet which adds another 5mm. This base does not block any airflow out of the 'scope; in fact, it directs the exhaust right towards the vented back of the UTG962E to keep air moving through. :-+

I'll post lots more pics tomorrow in the 3DP Knobs & Feet thread. Just got the DIGGRO Filament guide started printing...

mnem
Everybody needs something to believe in; I believe I'm going to bed.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: MarkF on December 30, 2020, 10:36:39 am
A few comments on Cura:

Cura has been my only slicer since I bought my CR-10 Mini.
I updated it several times on two laptops that I use (one Win10 and another Win7).

Recently, I started having problems running versions 4.7 and 4.7.1.
I can no longer run the newer versions.
On one computer I was running 4.7 and after updating to 4.7.1 it would no longer start.
I can not even go back to version 4.7 that had been successfully running.
Essentially, Cura will not complete the few initial configuration popup windows after a new install.

I now have reverted back to Cura 4.6.2 (the newest that runs on both computers).

Anyone else having problems running the newest versions of Cura?

________________________________________________________________

Checkout my changes to Marlin 1.1.9.1 to display the current layer number while printing instead of the elapsed time. 
It will work on any printer that uses the original CR-10 display. 
I never found the display of elapsed time while printing to be very helpful. 
The change defaults back to displaying the original elapsed time if the Cura layer comments are not found.
    https://www.eevblog.com/forum/embedded-computing/show-layer-number-while-printing-on-creality-cr-10/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/embedded-computing/show-layer-number-while-printing-on-creality-cr-10/)
Also, try out the three frame fan animation.  Much better than the default.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 30, 2020, 04:54:03 pm
No problems with Cura loading for me, and I've updated 5 or 6 versions now. I suspect a uninstall failure in your case; I'd look in the Cura forums for advice on how to manually uninstall everything and start over.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 30, 2020, 05:29:37 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1141520;image)   This is probably my most ambitious design to date in terms of tolerances; it is a filament guide for my DIGGRO which uses PTFE tube tails and incorporates the filament sensor switch. Location of the switch against the filament feed and absolute location of the filament exit with regards the inlet on the extruder need to be pretty precise; we'll see how well I did...

Sooo close. I could use it if I wanted to do some filing and shim the switch out with washers; I did in fact do so to figure out how far off I was on the offset. I took a few pics while I was doing the prep work to test & fit.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1141918;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1141922;image)

"Supports Everywhere" does just that... it puts them everywhere. This one looks like it's going to be a major PITA... long holes can be especially miserable little gawddammitts.

One thing that helps greatly on holes where a screw will thread into the plastic, is to do a CHAMFER-2 DIRECTIONS in the design stage. Small m2-m3 screws like this I'll chamfer 0.1mm in the diameter direction, with a depth direction of 2-3mm. You can see them in the design pic below.

A side benefit of this habit is that supports inside the hole come out much more easily; press against the sides of the support inside the hole and wiggle with a jeweler's screwdriver or dental pick to break them loose and even this 20mm long support just pushes right through. :-+

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1141930;image)

Large flat support structures sandwiched between plates like the bottom of this part can be a real PITA; here a razor scraper is your best friend. Slip it between the part and the support  like so; go all the way around the perimeter and repeat at the covalent area on each plate to separate both sides of the support.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1141934;image)

Then force a screwdriver under the support at the back of the slot, and lever outwards; the support will come out in a single piece.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1141938;image)

This one is usable as-is; sometimes you'll have to do a little cleanup scraping inside the slot with with an old paring knife.



(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1141942;image)

Since I wasn't happy with Rev 1, I am now printing Rev 3; Rev 2 got canned in redesign stage. This is what Iterative Design is all aboot; a couple hours and 50c worth of filament later and I'll have one that should fit exactly as desired.  ;D

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1090558;image)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: MarkF on December 30, 2020, 05:55:29 pm
No problems with Cura loading for me, and I've updated 5 or 6 versions now. I suspect a uninstall failure in your case; I'd look in the Cura forums for advice on how to manually uninstall everything and start over.

mnem
 :-/O

The strangest thing is that the one laptop had been running Cura 4.7 okay and now I can't get it to run anymore after trying 4.7.1.

Like you, I have updated many versions before. Versions 4.7 and 4.7.1 are the first ones I've had problems with.  I have always uninstalled the previous version before installing a new one.  All the uninstalls appeared to run okay and all of the program files were deleted.  I even went so far as to remove anything I could find related to Cura from the registry.  I believe Cura is having problems with the graphics card.  Except 4.7 was running okay with the graphics card before trying to install 4.7.1.  Cura does't seem to want to display the main window after running through the initial popup configuration windows.

No luck.  Haven't tried version 4.8 that was just released.

I'm back to running Cura 4.6.2 without problems.  Don't know if I'm missing any goodies in the new versions.
______________________________________________
Just passing on some issues I've had with Cura.
Thanks all.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Tomorokoshi on December 30, 2020, 07:16:55 pm
mnementh, what software are you using for 3D design?

In perhaps 6 months from now I need to start designing a bracket that would be made from 3 or 4 pieces, similar to how your scope base connects together, but with each individual piece approaching the complexity of your filament guide. However, I will start out with little things first for practice.

I just started to dabble with FreeCAD 0.18. For reference I'm familiar enough with Altium PCB layout to get a general idea of the tools. I will be trying other software as time permits.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr.B on December 30, 2020, 08:59:55 pm
mnementh, what software are you using for 3D design?...

He has probably gone to bed...
But, I will throw in MTCW.
I use the *Not for commercial use* free version of Fusion360.
Steep learning curve, but very powerful design software.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on December 30, 2020, 09:59:56 pm
mnementh, what software are you using for 3D design?

In perhaps 6 months from now I need to start designing a bracket that would be made from 3 or 4 pieces, similar to how your scope base connects together, but with each individual piece approaching the complexity of your filament guide. However, I will start out with little things first for practice.

I just started to dabble with FreeCAD 0.18. For reference I'm familiar enough with Altium PCB layout to get a general idea of the tools. I will be trying other software as time permits.

I have been using the Startup Free version of Fusion 360 for the last couple of years and this topic might give you a few ideas and some links for good you tube tutorial videos to look at  :) Stated before my 2020 got slightly derailed  :palm: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/fusion-360-mechanical-design-tips-tweaks-and-discussion-(not-eagle)/msg3084200/#msg3084200 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/fusion-360-mechanical-design-tips-tweaks-and-discussion-(not-eagle)/msg3084200/#msg3084200)

Will leave mnementh to confirm but he was getting to terms with Fusion after a little initial pain  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 31, 2020, 01:25:52 am
Yup. Frustion360 "Not For Commercial Use" version.
It's a love/hate relationship; I love tinkering and printing useful stuff, it loves to (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image)...

Anybody else having problems with page loads and "SMF Couldn't connect to database" errors...?

mnem
My freezer gel-pack has become permanently molded to the contours of my junk, I swear...  :-[
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on December 31, 2020, 01:57:11 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1142244;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1142248;image)

Rev 3 finished while I was out grocery shopping... it fits perfectly, and alignment is perfect as well. I can feed filament in at the end of the PTFE tail and as long as I make the usual diagonal cut on the end with nippers, it feeds through everything without a miss. Switch cavity, exit tube, inlet of extruder and through the pinions all the way down to the Bowden tube and hotend. :-+

I'd post more pics, but evidently eevBlog is having database connectivity issues; it keeps (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image) me.

I'll get on that later; think I'm gonna make my dinner and torment the kiddles over TV time.

mnem
 >:D

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tautech on December 31, 2020, 02:23:59 am


Anybody else having problems with page loads and "SMF Couldn't connect to database" errors...?
Yep, intermittent and been reported:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/website-error-reports/msg3394026/#msg3394026 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/website-error-reports/msg3394026/#msg3394026)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: MarkF on January 01, 2021, 09:12:29 pm
mnementh, what software are you using for 3D design?

In perhaps 6 months from now I need to start designing a bracket that would be made from 3 or 4 pieces, similar to how your scope base connects together, but with each individual piece approaching the complexity of your filament guide. However, I will start out with little things first for practice.

I just started to dabble with FreeCAD 0.18. For reference I'm familiar enough with Altium PCB layout to get a general idea of the tools. I will be trying other software as time permits.

I have been using FreeCAD also.
I found the videos by Joko Engineeringhelp (https://www.youtube.com/c/JokoEngineeringhelp/playlists) very helpful.
Just noticed that he has some Fusion 360 videos also.


These two in particular have been very helpful:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ns_pZRUwFQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ns_pZRUwFQ)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXfEf8D-JDk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXfEf8D-JDk)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 02, 2021, 04:58:16 am
Just spent the afternoon unbricking my CR-6 after it had a cow over the SD card I used for a FW update. Now it is doing a 36-hour print; the first layer took 1 hour 41 minutes and covers nearly the entire bed.

Should be interesting. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=693504;image)

mnem
*knocks self unconscious with a NAND mallet*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on January 02, 2021, 05:03:49 am
Never to old 98 year old using a 3D Printer  :-+ https://youtu.be/9sKKan_Q9VU?t=690 The whole video is worth a watch and contains gratuitous tinkering and uplifting content  :)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Tomorokoshi on January 02, 2021, 05:57:21 am
mnementh, what software are you using for 3D design?

In perhaps 6 months from now I need to start designing a bracket that would be made from 3 or 4 pieces, similar to how your scope base connects together, but with each individual piece approaching the complexity of your filament guide. However, I will start out with little things first for practice.

I just started to dabble with FreeCAD 0.18. For reference I'm familiar enough with Altium PCB layout to get a general idea of the tools. I will be trying other software as time permits.

I have been using FreeCAD also.
I found the videos by Joko Engineeringhelp (https://www.youtube.com/c/JokoEngineeringhelp/playlists) very helpful.
Just noticed that he has some Fusion 360 videos also.


These two in particular have been very helpful:
...
I kept getting stuck with FreeCAD. Many of the operations would produce errors, and I couldn't get good online solutions for them.

I looked at Autodesk Fusion 360, and decided to try it out. I made an account and worked through a collection of videos. While it's way more than I need for my project, it looks usable without too much overhead.

From there I went back and looked at Autodesk Tinkercad. The same Autodesk account works with it, so I'm trying that out also. While it's seems to be targeted to schools and "amateurs" (me), it should cover the needs I have. It appears to be a nice way to start with 3D methods before getting overwhelmed with software meant for corporate use.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on January 02, 2021, 01:17:25 pm
Many obscure errors occur in all CAD programs due to geometry errors.  Matching edges so they visually match isn't enough.  For reasons I can't explain FreeCAD does seem more susceptible to this, but understanding the class of problem will assist in any software.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: MarkF on January 02, 2021, 02:58:44 pm
The biggest 'aha moment' for me with FreeCAD is expressed in the 2nd video.
The 'Part Design' workbench does NOT play well with others.

I now design most parts by creating multiple bodies within the 'Part Design' workbench.
By creating sketches and then padding or pocketing, I'm able to make most parts.
I'm by far still a novice with FreeCAD.  But, the workbench interaction made a big difference for me.

The same author has a nice comparison between FreeCAD and SOLIDWORKS.

Hope that helps those wishing to pursue FreeCAD.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 02, 2021, 04:00:03 pm
I spent aboot 30 minutes with FreeCAD when Frustion360 servers went down a week or so ago; I couldn't figure out how to actually open a project and start creating anything. I figured if it was that obtuse, I had no hopes of figuring shit out like splitting bodies and rescaling in a single axis.

One thing I did discover recently aboot Frustion360 is that it appears they've quietly reintroduced the ability to select a body from the browser, right-click on it, and "Save as STL" which is rendered locally.

That went away for a while shortly after I started using it; it was how I used to save everything locally because I couldn't figure out how to EXPORT as STL.  :P No idea how long since it came back. :-//

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1143502;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 02, 2021, 07:41:08 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1143702;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1143706;image)   

To put that last pic in context... here's my wife's "Perfect Art Supplies Caddy" drafted (hopefully) to specification. :o

Aaaand... she doesn't like the grab holes. :-\

mnem
*drops back and punts*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 03, 2021, 12:20:55 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1143862;image)

So now edited, and in process.

We be farmin'... for the sake of domestic tranquility.
   :-DD

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 03, 2021, 06:07:25 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1144320;image)

urrrk. 36 hours printing, and the handle area just snapped off picking it up and shaking it a little. I thought a 8mm cross-section ought to be more than enough; the cups are only 2mm across and strong enough to stand on.  :-//

I had random brittleness/layer adhesion problems with this filament before, when I was making the slide whistles; in fact, this project was partly just to use up this filament I got for free with the CR6.

The rest of the print seems very strong, so I'm thinking of mitigation solutions right now. Top of the list is to design and print a new handle out of the blue filament with concentric pattern in the stress plane, and epoxy it to the thing. We'll see how that works out once gird my loins for another wrestle with Frustion360.  ;)

mnem
Hell is other people's software.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Tomorokoshi on January 03, 2021, 07:39:55 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1144320;image)

urrrk. 36 hours printing, and the handle area just snapped off picking it up and shaking it a little. I thought a 8mm cross-section ought to be more than enough; the cups are only 2mm across and strong enough to stand on.  :-//

I had random brittleness/layer adhesion problems with this filament before, when I was making the slide whistles; in fact, this project was partly just to use up this filament I got for free with the CR6.

The rest of the print seems very strong, so I'm thinking of mitigation solutions right now. Top of the list is to design and print a new handle out of the blue filament with concentric pattern in the stress plane, and epoxy it to the thing. We'll see how that works out once gird my loins for another wrestle with Frustion360.  ;)

mnem
Hell is other people's software.

How about instead of a 3D plastic handle, rivet a leather strap as a handle on it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 03, 2021, 10:01:22 pm
Naaahhh... it'd get in the way of it being used.

I figured out the why and the fix; the why is just plain stress in the wrong plane, where the print is weakest. Not designing with the material in mind. D'oh! :palm:

I'm working on the part now; if I lay it face down and slice with concentric pattern, the part will be inherently much stronger in the stress plane, without making the center cup unusable.

mnem
Iterative design, yo.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on January 03, 2021, 10:22:17 pm
That's why so many printing channels test materials in two orientations.  :) Though sometimes it pays to have a two part solution just so your layers aren't working against you. Like with any other process, design for manufacture saves a lot of pain.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 04, 2021, 03:01:48 pm
That's why so many printing channels test materials in two orientations.  :) Though sometimes it pays to have a two part solution just so your layers aren't working against you. Like with any other process, design for manufacture saves a lot of pain.

Yeah, I really haven't figured out what the magic combination is with that filament. I did DP-icorn (several of him, actually) with the stuff and it printed just fab. The slide-whistles and vertical region of this part... not so much.  :-//

I figure it's mostly a matter of "you get what you pay for" and this was the roll they threw in for free with the CR-6SE. :-\

The body of the caddy turned out pretty  decent, and the grab handle I designed actually does kindof tie it all together, so a net win. Epoxy is curing on that; now it's just a matter of churning out another half-dozen bins.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1144852;image)

I had a print fail yesterday due to worn-out roller on the hotend plate; rather than wait for new rollers I reinstalled the CR-10 plate/MicroSwiss hotend & 'fang parts cooler, and I'm now using the CR6 0.40 nozzles on both printers.  :-+

It's working awesome; problem is, it's printing too pretty now.  :o   I may have to reprint the ones I already did so the finish texture matches. :P

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: pipe2null on January 06, 2021, 02:28:03 am
I have successfully 3D printed G1/4 to 1/2inch hose barb pipe fittings that are fully air and water tight, but my yield is just awful, only 1 out of maybe 10 have the planets align just perfectly enough that the part actually passes my "water submerged with low pressure compressed air" test.

The biggest source of leaks for my parts have been the seam of the outside perimeter, and inner perimeters that have the seam aka start/end points aligned with the outer perimeter seam within the same layer, which makes for an effective micro air/water duct through the wall.  I'm sure there are plenty of other micro-gaps in the print, but it's hard to see other issues when all the bubbles from the biggest culprit is obscuring all the other problems...

Does anyone know of a slicer that that exposes settings to control "over-running the perimeter" and/or "inner/outer perimeter start offset within each layer"?
Basically, in an attempt to seal the perimeter and eliminate the micro-duct created between the start and end point of the perimeter (usually referred to as the seam"), I want to see if squishing in a bit more plastic after the normal end point of the perimeter will fix the majority of through-the-part-wall leaking.  Same question for offsetting perimeter starts within the same layer.  I've been using Prusa Slicer exclusively and they have settings to adjust where the seam is located layer-to-layer, but that is the full extent of applicable settings I am aware of...  I do not expect to get 100% perfection for air/water tight prints, but increasing the yield better than 10% would be a nice start.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 06, 2021, 03:43:34 am
I have successfully 3D printed G1/4 to 1/2inch hose barb pipe fittings that are fully air and water tight, but my yield is just awful, only 1 out of maybe 10 have the planets align just perfectly enough that the part actually passes my "water submerged with low pressure compressed air" test.

The biggest source of leaks for my parts have been the seam of the outside perimeter, and inner perimeters that have the seam aka start/end points aligned with the outer perimeter seam within the same layer, which makes for an effective micro air/water duct through the wall.  I'm sure there are plenty of other micro-gaps in the print, but it's hard to see other issues when all the bubbles from the biggest culprit is obscuring all the other problems...

Does anyone know of a slicer that that exposes settings to control "over-running the perimeter" and/or "inner/outer perimeter start offset within each layer"?
Basically, in an attempt to seal the perimeter and eliminate the micro-duct created between the start and end point of the perimeter (usually referred to as the seam"), I want to see if squishing in a bit more plastic after the normal end point of the perimeter will fix the majority of through-the-part-wall leaking.  Same question for offsetting perimeter starts within the same layer.  I've been using Prusa Slicer exclusively and they have settings to adjust where the seam is located layer-to-layer, but that is the full extent of applicable settings I am aware of...  I do not expect to get 100% perfection for air/water tight prints, but increasing the yield better than 10% would be a nice start.

Maybe experiment a little with deliberate over-extrusion, and put up with the additional cleanup required...? Maybe get a die to run over the finished part if it's got pipe threads on it...?

For testing, I suppose you could coat various areas with epoxy to isolate where the problem spots are.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on January 06, 2021, 06:46:14 am
I feel like these prints will be much like castings.  Hard to assure zero porosity.  A low viscosity epoxy, an anaerobic curing material (like loctite) or other sealing solutions may be the fast and easy way to watertight parts.  Or as I have done on several items, just accept the leak rate.  In my applications it didn't affect function, it was just a desire for perfection which I was able to get over.


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 06, 2021, 03:07:13 pm
Yes, Cura has a whole passel of layer seam settings, including random location.

I was just trying to think of a solution which might improve pipe2null's yield, even if parts weren't pretty. Endgame here is that a successful design may simply have to be made by molding & casting rather than 3DP the final product.

Molding/casting really is not that difficult; there are a number of reinforced resins out there that can easily produce serviceable small fittings airtight up to 50-100 PSIG.

And of course, Cura has a mode explicitly for slicing a model into a mold. ;)

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on January 06, 2021, 04:14:18 pm
For low pressure water use a dip in hot paraffin will probably do the trick.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 06, 2021, 07:46:41 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1143862;image)   We be farmin'... for the sake of domestic tranquility.   :-DD

mnem
 :-/O

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1146432;image)

Printed the last bin this morning. Wife didn't even let me finish the thing; she's been filling bins as they come off the printer. :o

Vital stats:

230mm W x 210mm D x 130mm H

650gr Bloo filament, 325gr White filament, 10gr epoxy.

~4 hours total design time, 2 hours post-production, 2 hours head-scratching, mostly after the handle broke off the base. :-DD

~45 printer hours in blue filament, ~35 hours in white filament.

White filament cost: $0 (project largely to use up free roll that came with CR-6SE)

Bloo filament cost: $15 (US$23 *.650kg)

Teacher wife made all happy with her "Perfect little caddy that fits right where I want it!" : Priceless.

mnem
Next victim...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on January 07, 2021, 06:17:50 am
Somewhere in here there might be a 3D Printer or more likely a custom PCB/Thin board engraver/mill. eBay auction: #184604850121 Estimated start date 2022-2024  :palm:

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/k04AAOSwz7Jf7-99/s-l1600.jpg)

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/xlsAAOSwy41f7-g7/s-l1600.jpg)

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/v2UAAOSwm0tf7-tn/s-l1600.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 07, 2021, 05:08:30 pm
Somewhere in here there might be a 3D Printer or more likely a custom PCB/Thin board engraver/mill. eBay auction: #184604850121 Estimated start date 2022-2024  :palm:   (https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/k04AAOSwz7Jf7-99/s-l1600.jpg) (https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/xlsAAOSwy41f7-g7/s-l1600.jpg) (https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/v2UAAOSwm0tf7-tn/s-l1600.jpg)
Didjoo win it...?

Yeeg... all that for ~US$109.  And that seems to be the norm, not an exception. People spend so much on multiple printer kits and stoopit upgrade BS; but not willing to spend a dime on actual fundamental parts.  :wtf:

There's a reason I gave my last Tevo Tarantula away... it was worth more to me as a gift than the cash I could extract from it.  |O

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1055152;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on January 08, 2021, 12:39:51 am
Yep I brought it  >:D

Seemed like a good box of bits to add to the kit with the Large format Laser build coming up and I was planning to dismantle and rebuild a little 3018 CNC I have had for a few years that was always just 'ok'.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on January 08, 2021, 03:31:08 am
I still dreaming to get a crappy DIY laser cutter or wood CNC with all the chinesium parts I took off my E5.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 08, 2021, 05:13:02 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1147268;image)

I made this for my Fluke today; so tired I can't see right now so gonna post the whole thing tomorrow. :P

mnem
 :=\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 08, 2021, 06:31:22 pm
Ughh. Usage testing reveals a fatal flaw in the above part... it is just plain inconvenient to use. I've revised the design; of course now it's twice as big and uses twice as much filament. :-\

We'll see. A complete re-envisioning of this part may be required.  :P

mnem
 :bullshit:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Canis Dirus Leidy on January 08, 2021, 07:48:01 pm
Want a sea of wild outrageous sex? Then build a 3D printer with CoreXY mechanics. Of course, it does not reach such an extent as in the joke about the fairy and the tankers, but it still gives a lot of new interesting sensations.
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1147588) (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1147592)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 08, 2021, 11:13:27 pm
 :wtf: did he just say...?  :o

mnem
             (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1062790;image)
*obviously looking in the wrong Russian-English dictionary*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on January 08, 2021, 11:21:22 pm
I suspect something is lost in translation :-DD

Nice printer build though  :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Canis Dirus Leidy on January 09, 2021, 12:05:29 am
:wtf: did he just say...?  :o
It was a reference to an old anecdote about a dialogue between a tank crew (engaged in field repairs) and a fairy who offered to have sex for real: “Then the fairy waved her magic wand and the tank's tower fell off” (in another version, it was a student and a genie who poured out the whole cup coffee on the just finished drawings).

P.S. Adapter for installing a 6 × 30 Chinese finder on Meade Polaris:
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1147722)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 09, 2021, 03:13:37 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1147798;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1147802;image)

89%... (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=693504;image)

mnem
i suppose i can finish it out with bloo...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 09, 2021, 03:53:50 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1147824;image)

Guess you can't cut it much closer than that! :-DD

mnem
I really need to run out and get a Lotto ticket right now...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 09, 2021, 10:40:41 pm
Bench Stand for FLUKE 189 & 87/IV DMM

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1148526;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1148530;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1152648;image)

This is what I've been doodling around with the last couple days... a properly rigid bench-use stand for my Fluke 189 that incorporates a lead holder. This unit snaps in place of the molded rubber test-lead keeper usually found on the back of these meters; it does not interfere with the original flip-out stand in any way. The idea was to have all my most-used accessories and the leads all tidy and right there when I need them. The design scope was:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1148518;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1148522;image)

A) Easy to print: Stand base is designed to print flat on its back, while both parts make heavy use of gradual tapers and curves; this means they print well without supports as long as you have Bridging Mode enabled and rotate the part to present areas that need bridging best to the fan. Any stringing caused by printing without supports tends to be much easier to clean up than the mess left behind by supports.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1148534;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1148538;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1148542;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1148546;image)

B) Easy to use: Once assembled, entire unit snaps in/out easily. The oversized back disc serves a purpose; it makes it easy to loop the wires over the groove one-handed and the optional wire across the middle allows similar one-handed clipping of favorite alligator leads up to 24" long as well as IC grabbit leads. Reliefs in the stand serve to keep loose alligator wires from causing trouble, and magnets in the pockets keep the screw-on alligators in place.

*continued in next post*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 09, 2021, 10:46:09 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1148550;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1148578;image)

2) Minimal BOM: Aside from ~150g filament, all you need is (2) 10mm neodymium disc magnets and some ~8mm round dowel, tube or rod approx 300mm long. I found this closet widget which can yield 5 segments of straight tubing 285mm long for $2 at the local Dollarama. Magnets are glued in with epoxy or CA gel.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1148554;image)

Same epoxy, CA gel or hot-glue can be used on the tube sockets at final assembly; the entire assembly lies flat which makes it easy to get it all perfectly square. Hot-glue has added benefit of being easy to undo; just hit the tube with hot-air gun and it'll come right apart.


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1148558;image)  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1148562;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1148566;image)

C) Easy assembly: The stand base snaps into the Hanger accessory slots on back of the Fluke 189; one side has a deep tab that fits precisely, while the other side that snaps in is designed a little too thick so you have to sand/trim with a knife to get it to snap in just right.


 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1148570;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1148574;image)

E) Better with Upgrades: 1mm holes at 90° angle for the wire are part of the model; tin-plated steel mechanic's wire or the center core from a scrap of CATV R6 works well here. Push through the hole, pull tight then melt-embed in the plastic with a hot soldering iron. Cut wire flush with nippers, then pot hole from iron with epoxy. If you can't be arsed, 1mm hole is easy to ignore. If you just want the base, I've got multiple versions with no hole in the top.

Cheers!

mnem
 :-DMM
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 16, 2021, 06:19:44 pm
STLs are posted here in the Knobs & Feet thread in .ZIP format (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/msg3417422/#msg3417422). Enjoy!

Direct link; right-click then "Save Link As" to your desired location:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/?action=dlattach;attach=1152546 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/?action=dlattach;attach=1152546)

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on January 18, 2021, 10:07:17 pm
Sorry I was/am busy designing a plate for my Trianglelab Matrix hotend, and a new belt attachment to keep them finally alligned...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1153790;image)
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1153794;image)

 :popcorn:

PS: Had to jump on FreeCad 0.19, because it has Assembly 3.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: raptor1956 on January 19, 2021, 10:53:55 am
There's been some talk about different 3D CAD/CAM programs to create 3D models but I'd like to make this a more formal question.  I've looked at FreeCAD and am not all that pleased at how it works and have largely ignored Fusion360 but I have no experience with the free version of Fusion360 to know how useful it could be for the kinds of 3D models I want to make.  I mentioned before that I'm not all that interested in making action figures and am much more inclined to designing 3D models as engineering scaled prototypes.  I have used one version of CAD or another for nearly 40 years but almost exclusively 2D CAD so I would have some learning to do no matter which program I was to settle on.

So, what are the strengths and weaknesses of FreeCAD and Fusion360 and what other programs are either free or reasonable and what our there strengths and weaknesses?


Brian
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on January 19, 2021, 11:58:02 am
I never touched Fusion360 because it is a cloud thing. Many people are happy with it.

I jumped in FreeCAD and:

Pro:
- no subscription / cloud
- open source / python hackable
- if you post on the FreeCAD forum, you get your problem solved in hours...
- integration with KiCAD (for me big +)
- decent manual and how to available on internet

Cons:
- not stable, sometime you solve the problem by restarting and reopening the file
- jungle of tools. Because it is a free development platform if you have an idea you can implement it, and you do not know there is another tool that could do 50% of the job. then you put the backwards compatibility and it's a mess. you end up with 1000 tools that overlap in functionality.
- slow as hell sometime.
- I am sure it takes 3 steps to do in FreeCAD what in others you can do with one click (sorry I have no concrete examples but it's my feeling). Unless you play the Python magic card...

Basically it boils down to this IMHO:
Do you hate cloud, love to stay indipendent, need to do simple stuff and have some patience to burn: FreeCAD.
All the others Fusion360.

Unless you don't want to put money on the table for a CAD SW....
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CJay on January 19, 2021, 04:10:32 pm
Dislike cloud based continually licensed software, it can be changed or withdrawn at any time.

Having said that, I do like Designspark Mechanical, it's not sophisticated but it does more than enough for  most of  my needs.

I am also blessed with free copies of my employer's CAD packages for when Designspark doesn't do enough but they're of little relevance here as they're ridiculously expensive to buy.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 19, 2021, 11:51:29 pm
Agree with all of the above complaints. But bottom line is for the most part, Frustion360 just works. It is confusing, there are many things that are counterintuitive, yet it is by far the most usable thing out there.

Most of what they've taken away from the free version is tools primarily used for corporate-level collaboration and specialized formats for manufacturing. Very little that you might want for design of components one can reasonably make with home 3DP has been taken away, and by far more than anyone needs for such use remains.

My solution to it being in the cloud is as follows:

I export a copy of my project locally as .F3D as soon as I finish it. Other formats are available: https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/fusion-360/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/How-to-export-a-design-in-Fusion-360.html (https://knowledge.autodesk.com/support/fusion-360/troubleshooting/caas/sfdcarticles/sfdcarticles/How-to-export-a-design-in-Fusion-360.html)

I now create my STLs by exporting individual bodies to STL one at a time; this tactic means my models are rendered locally. Much quicker.

I have given up on the notion of privacy in this aspect. I know some asshat at AD can probably see everything I ever designed. Big fat hairy deal.  :-//

:rant:

FUCKING. FUSION.

Why the FUCK is it so gawddamn HARD to add text to an object? Why the FUCK does Fusion automagically HIDE SHIT all the fucking time?

This is supposed to be software to HELP me create... I should be able to just select a fucking surface and add text to it, for FUCK's sake.  :palm:

Instead, it just  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image)  every time I try to do what other people show me in a dozen different videos. I should NOT have to fucking outwit the gawddamn software that's supposed to be HELPING me.
|O

/ :rant:

mnem
*toddles off to put ice on my aching balls*
Welcome to CAD. You get to pick where it hurts, not whether it hurts.
Scram is absolutely right here; this exchange pretty much sums up working with any 3D CAD program. Speaking as a user with very weak Kung-Fu, Frustion360 is the one you will more often get progress along with your   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=779856;image)   instead of just repetitive testicular trauma with no visible cause or end in sight.

mnem
"Since I gave up all hope, I'm much better now. I used to be constantly disgusted; now I'm merely amused."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: sleemanj on January 20, 2021, 12:05:05 am
I use OnShape for the most part.


*  Cloud, runs in your browser, no install, just go to onshape.com
*  Huge feature set way more than I ever use
*  Versioning built in
*  Pretty easy to use and fairly intuitive
*  Free if you don't mind everything you do being technically publically available
*  Very much made for "engineers" not "artists"

The main downsides are that it's cloud (yes this is an upside too, depends how you look at it), and if you want to progress beyond free everything-is-public then it's $$$, and of course, free could easily go away (you can of course export your designs in common formats if you want local backups to account for that danger).


 
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 23, 2021, 09:25:12 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/?action=dlattach;attach=1156524;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/?action=dlattach;attach=1156528;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/?action=dlattach;attach=1156532;image)   

Boring Mundane Print number 144.

120mm fan bracket and feet to allow turning Hitron CODA cable MODEM/Gateway on its side so I can deploy under my desk.

Details & STLs on the Knobs & Feet thread here: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/msg3428390/#msg3428390 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/msg3428390/#msg3428390)

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on January 24, 2021, 11:11:16 pm
The Trianglelab Matrix upgrade is definitely a challenge, there is no space for it on the Ender5.
I have to redo and custom design a lot of stuff.  :box:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 25, 2021, 10:08:29 pm
*cringe*   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=971254;image)

mnem
*currently modding LED COB lighting onto my CR-6SE*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on January 25, 2021, 10:13:45 pm
You do the LED, I am fighting with this custom 5015 blower mount, WIP
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 26, 2021, 03:34:49 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1158324;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1158328;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1158332;image)   

Current progress. Something interesting here; on the CR-6SE, CReality has started doing something I've been doing for years: ordinary heat-sink compound on the heater and thermistor. I knew it was a good idea; it ensures good thermal performance, and as a side benefit it reduces corrosion and the tendency for these parts to seize up in the aluminum heater block.

All those asshats in the Tevo forums who concocted all sorts of bunk nightmare scenarios as to why I shouldn't (no, seriously; days of argument :palm:) can now officially kiss my scaly dwagon arse.  :-DD

I usually prefer to make these kinds of bits out of aluminum, but this bit of plated sheetmetal (an old DIN radio pull-tab) was exactly the right dimensions so I used it. Total weight is only 4 grams, plus the steel raises the resonant frequency of this little tuning fork much higher than a similar bit of aluminum, which I think is a good thing here. :-+

Right now I'm potting the wires with epoxy after soldering; once my packet of 1W metal-film resistors arrives, back on the printer she goes and I'll start working on the electrical bits and the overhead LED. ;D

mnem
*tinker-tinker... putter-putter... tinker-putter-tinker...*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on January 26, 2021, 04:01:46 pm
ordinary heat-sink compound on the heater and thermistor

In the assembly Matrix Triaglelab they not mentioned it, they recomend to put a little of it on the heat break.
So you are telling me to put regular CPU heat-sink compound on 285 max °C part? It sound an aggressive question but I only want to understand.

Thanks.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 26, 2021, 05:05:58 pm
Never had a lick of trouble with it; just silicone grease and zinc oxide for Ifni's sake.

Even the cheap stuff is rated for 205-300°C, depending on the formula of the silicone grease. Even when I was having trouble with my Diggro because the new CR-10 hotend had a 12V heater and it was glowing red-hot, it still slipped right out afterwards. The compound was a bit dried-out & gummy is all.  :-//

I have years of positive experience with it; I'm going to go with empirical evidence.  :-+

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on January 26, 2021, 05:24:48 pm
I will probably do it, for reference here the Matrix manual quote:

 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1158378;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 26, 2021, 08:29:26 pm
Yeah, I use it there too. Cheap insurance, sez I. :-//

mnem
*punt*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 28, 2021, 06:32:38 pm
On the Bench today: CR-6SE LED Mods

Just a quick pic dump; no time for my usual tech teardown. Time to get productive again.  >:D

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1158328;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1159622;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1159626;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1159630;image)

First, the Hotend COB LED. Driven at 50mA, approx 0.4Watts. These little COB LEDs used here and on the Diggro were all scavenged from a smashed driving light bulb found in a parking lot. Parts is parts, sez I.  ;)


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1159634;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1159638;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1159642;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1159646;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1159650;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1159654;image)

Overhead LED Bar is driven at ~700mA; approx 8 watts. 1Ω/1W metal film ballast so adjusting current is easy by measuring voltage drop across resistor. I know... lazy, lazy...  :P Wire kept in place inside channels with 11.1mm wide strips of blister-pack plastic. :-+

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1159658;image)   

I love it when a plan comes together. Excellent flood lighting, just like with my Diggro. Contact area with the extrusion is thin, but plenty to keep everything barely warm to the touch, even after running all afternoon in testing.

Winner, winner pork chop dinner!!!  :-+

(CONTINUED)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 28, 2021, 06:33:58 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1159662;image)

The money shot; all that work comes down to this. Being able to see exactly what the printer is doing: PRICELESS.  :-+

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=900426;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on January 30, 2021, 09:18:16 pm
Nice LED mod! I do not feel the need to do it, I have my Ikea goose neck light on the side if I need to... one day maybe.

Anyway today I investigated my new cooling fan, the Sunon MF50152VX-1L02C-A99

(https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/DdoAAOSwApxf54tx/s-l1600.jpg)

According to the datasheet this fan is designed to operate in this voltage range 20.4V - 26.4V.

So I did a couple of measurement

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1161682;image)
(the fan is lighten up to make the rpm reading easier)

by controlling the fan with

Code: [Select]
M106 P0 S[pwm]
and indeed:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1161678;image)

so I edited the Marlin like this:

Code: [Select]
/**
 * PWM Fan Scaling
 *
 * Define the min/max speeds for PWM fans (as set with M106).
 *
 * With these options the M106 0-255 value range is scaled to a subset
 * to ensure that the fan has enough power to spin, or to run lower
 * current fans with higher current. (e.g., 5V/12V fans with 12V/24V)
 * Value 0 always turns off the fan.
 *
 * Define one or both of these to override the default 0-255 range.
 */
#define FAN_MIN_PWM 216 // Zuk, new fan starting point
#define FAN_MAX_PWM 251 // Zuk, new fan max point

and then in the Slicer SW I changed the Min% from 35% to 1% to have the max range available:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1161686;image)

this last step is not important, but meh it costs nothing.

Of course do not forget FAN_KICKSTART_TIME:

Code: [Select]
// When first starting the main fan, run it at full speed for the
// given number of milliseconds.  This gets the fan spinning reliably
// before setting a PWM value. (Does not work with software PWM for fan on Sanguinololu)
#define FAN_KICKSTART_TIME 100 // Zuk new Sunon Blower

So far the theory part I let you know if everythink works as expected.

Yes it could be the PWM frequency it not the right one for that fan, but meh... I do not want to make my like more complicated with FAST_PWM_FAN in Marlin ... BTW do we really need 255 different speeds for the cooling fan?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on January 31, 2021, 07:56:04 pm
It's binary steps, buddy. 8 bits resolution=0-255. ;)

When you set up your printer, you figure out the minimum cooling RPM (enough to do any good for the filament chosen) and maximum RPM (slow enough that it doesn't blow the filament out of place in bridging mode and create flossy fuzz everywhere) for your fan and your layer cooling duct by trial & error. This means your actual usable range can be very small depending on the combination of the two. 8 bits of resolution is actually not much, considering that.

Thanks on the LED mod! Quite pleased with m'seff on it, especially since I've had a chance to use it. ;D

I will suggest that even if you don't get all anal with one on the hotend like I do, that you really do want to install some cheap aluminum-backed COB strips in your printer chassis. The floodlighting effect is just so nice when you're working, and they are sooo cheap. Like 2/$8 on the strips (https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B01N13UAB1/), and you can even get a cheap CC/CV buck converter for like $12 (https://www.amazon.ca/Yeeco-Converter-1-25-36V-Regulator-Transformer/dp/B06X6BTRBK) to make it dead-easy. The only reason I bothered to build my little regulator/ballast PCB is because A) I needed those resistors & perfboard for other projects I have in mind and 2) I have literally a couple dozen of those 2A buck regulators to use up, and they fit so nicely in that space.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on February 02, 2021, 10:16:27 pm
it doesn't blow the filament out of place in bridging mode and create flossy fuzz everywhere)

like this?  :-DD

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1164074;image)

retraction tower calibration from 1mm to 6mm retraction distance. It does not change anything.

Oh well it could be humidity in my PLA filament.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqUcrIsSHak (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uqUcrIsSHak)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAXUjZZER5E (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FAXUjZZER5E)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on February 07, 2021, 06:34:41 pm
My cooler part fan sporadically does not work, it has nothing to do with the new fan installed.
I saw the problem also before.
When I am in the error state, the fan does not spin,
M106 P0 S255 respond with ok but the fan does not spin.

After I reset the board (5V power off and back on again), I am able to get the fan spinning again.

I do not know how to debug it, it is not a classic hardware issue.

Or better said, could it be that the µC is damaged and just that pin does not want to behave?

I am lost.

EDIT: I found the root cause, it is a communication idle timeout after M81

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1168926;image)

after that my part cooler fan is gone and I have to reset the board.  :-//


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on February 08, 2021, 02:17:09 pm
dood... I'm not gonna be any help on that one. I wanted to repurpose the LED lighting channel in my CR-6SE as a thermally-controlled hotend fan; that seemed to me like a much more sensible priority than stoopit bling lighting.  ::)

So I installed and tried to figure out PlatformIO, as the CR6-SE uses Marlin 2.x 32-bit... and my fucking brain melted. :-DD

Good luck... you're our trailblazer on this one. ;)

mnem
 :scared:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on February 08, 2021, 02:26:39 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1169660;image)

In other news... AD is fuckerizing their product users again. Guess it just hurts them so much that everybody actually expects them to keep their promise that it would be free for non-profit use.  :palm:

So from now on, I'll be making multiple copies of every damned thing I design, in every conceivable permutation, just to be sure I can go back to it later when I want to.
Oh, what... does that waste precious server space, AD...? Then maybe you should make it less of a dicksore for me to archive my shit locally, dickwads. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=876074;image)

Or maybe, just maybe, they should actually make a sanely-priced tier for personal use... instead of demanding commercial-product prices, period, end of discussion. ::)

mnem
Adapt or die, motherfuckers.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Kean on February 08, 2021, 02:27:24 pm
EDIT: I found the root cause, it is a communication idle timeout after M81

https://marlinfw.org/docs/gcode/M081.html
Quote
Turn off the high-voltage power supply. If the board is not powered from another source, this may also shut down the electronics.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on February 08, 2021, 10:57:39 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1170070;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1170200;image)

Boring Mundane Everyday Print #148: Fridge Door Thing

Our fridge has a huge butter thing in the door, but not big enough for a big margarine tub; so we usually store our sliced cheese there. Problem is that if we close the cover on it, the cheese grows fur prematurely because butter thing doing its job and keeping it warmer in there; if we leave the cover up our cheese falls out every time we open the door. |O So, making a couple of end-pieces to turn leftover clothes-hanger tubes from 189 Meter stand project into an openwork substitute.

It took several iterations of trial & error printing just the first 2mm of the shape to get the relationships right between the hinge pegs and the edges of the recess in the door; then I used the mirror function in Frustion360 to make a flipped copy of the final sketch. Then just doing the same extrusion, pulls & fillets on both pieces at the same time to make the completed shapes.  :-+

Currently printing in BLACK PLA, 215°C/60°C, 0.28mm LH, infill manually set at 2mm grid pattern, 1.2mm walls, 0.84mm top/bottom w/concentric pattern, no adhesion, no supports. I'm bumping up print speed 10 ticks to 60mm/Sec; this and 0.28mm LH are why the bump to 215°C. Estimate is 3.75 hours both pieces with both printers running. :-+

UPDATE: Actual print time 3 hours 29 min.  :-+

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Bassman59 on February 08, 2021, 11:41:38 pm
A friend bought a little album stand to show what record is being played, and I figured, I can do that, too! So a few minutes with F360 and here ya go.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Bassman59 on February 08, 2021, 11:42:29 pm
And with a record installed!
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Bassman59 on February 08, 2021, 11:44:03 pm
Buy this record.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Bassman59 on February 08, 2021, 11:44:54 pm
Updated version, with an arch for rear support. To be printed tonight ...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on February 09, 2021, 12:44:08 am

In other news... AD is fuckerizing their product users again. Guess it just hurts them so much that everybody actually expects them to keep their promise that it would be free for non-profit use.  :palm:

So from now on, I'll be making multiple copies of every damned thing I design, in every conceivable permutation, just to be sure I can go back to it later when I want to.
Oh, what... does that waste precious server space, AD...? Then maybe you should make it less of a dicksore for me to archive my shit locally, dickwads. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=876074;image)

Or maybe, just maybe, they should actually make a sanely-priced tier for personal use... instead of demanding commercial-product prices, period, end of discussion. ::)

mnem
Adapt or die, motherfuckers.

There you go fixed your sooking for the next three years on 'this topic' at least  :-DD https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/fusion-360-mechanical-design-tips-tweaks-and-discussion-(not-eagle)/msg3447212/#msg3447212 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/fusion-360-mechanical-design-tips-tweaks-and-discussion-(not-eagle)/msg3447212/#msg3447212)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on February 09, 2021, 04:08:40 am
Duly noted, inappropriate comments left as usual.  >:D

In other news, I did update my cheesy-arse fridge-thing post above. Fit right the first time.    :-+

mnem
*toddles off to ded*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on February 10, 2021, 11:20:42 am
Quote
Turn off the high-voltage power supply. If the board is not powered from another source, this may also shut down the electronics.

Correct, but my board is powered from another source.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on February 13, 2021, 06:26:57 am
This is sort of off topic or maybe even deserving of being its own topic in the Mech Eng section but here it is :-//  :)

Making Vacuum Formed Plugs/Molds with a 3D printer. Plenty of other interesting videos on the same channel too  :-+ The entire fuselage of the Windex is also 3D printed.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnnJT5HA0PE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MnnJT5HA0PE)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on February 25, 2021, 06:00:41 pm
Upgrade to Matrix hotend done, I had just to design a custom fan cooler holder and a custom 3mm alu plate to hold everything on the X car

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1181984;image)

What a royal PITA, files here (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4775568)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on February 25, 2021, 09:39:41 pm
Yeeeowwwch. Looks like a lot of moving mass.  :o

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on February 25, 2021, 10:09:28 pm
Yeeeowwwch. Looks like a lot of moving mass.  :o

I prefer to sacrifice speed and have better results.  :P




(I hope)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on February 26, 2021, 01:00:50 am
Yeeeowwwch. Looks like a lot of moving mass.  :o
I prefer to sacrifice speed and have better results.  :P   (I hope)
LOL... well, you've got the nice slickery railzz everywhere... but yeah, I get it. I've been experimenting with small increases in print speed at larger LH; my last few projects have been a fair amount of material so it does make a difference.

What seems to be the biggest deal appearance-wise does not seem to be speed, but rather thinking aboot the shape and choosing the outer wall start point rather than leaving it randomized. I've gotten to where I spend a lot more time looking at the preview layer by layer; it does not always seem to wind up where you think it should.  :o

I know... pretty elementary stuff to some... honestly, I'm usually much more concerned with functional over attractive, so just hadn't given it any thought. :-//

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on February 28, 2021, 08:05:26 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1183896;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1183900;image)

Deceptively simple...

This filter grille is to go over the rear case fan on my PC, which is now reversed to pull instead of the usual push configuration. Normally, I'd just put a cheap magnetic filter grill there and be done with it. The weird part is... and I don't know what the case designer was thinking... this grill is 120mm x 140mm with slotted screw holes.  ??? But the space between the MB IO header/shield and the side of the case right there is only 130mm, so there's no way in hell you could actually put a 140mm fan in there... :wtf:

Maybe that's why the stoopit case was on 70% off sale when I bought it... it really is a stoopit case.  :o

So that's why I decided to try and print something custom up real quick; but the "real quick" bit turned out to be a bit more work than expected. This simple filter screen was quite difficult to produce, as there appears to be some limit to the number of polys the free version of Frustion360 will handle; or maybe it's a deliberate RAM access limitation... :-//

Bottom line is I couldn't deal with the whole design due to the huge number of tiny holes; I had to make 1/4 of it to be able to make the pattern and manipulate anything. Any revisions I needed to make, even a simple press/pull, I had to go back to the 1/4 design and make mods there, as if I tried to do it with the whole object it would just hang.

I'm guessing this is a deliberate limitation in the free version that I just didn't understand in one of the "we're taking this away from you now" updates they send every few weeks now. I let it try for over an hour to render one time and it never, ever used more than aboot 8 gig of RAM total (out of 32GB) in ResMon, instead of the usual ballooning RAM usage during the render then back down to a sane level once the render completed. Weird also, it seemed to hammer the fuck out of only two cores... and only rarely did it use another two cores... but again, no progress, and only when it "hung". I really do think it's an artificial limit baked into the "free" version.

But I did learn a lot with this deceptively simple design. The syntax of the pattern tool is effing infuriatingly dynamic; what the dialog boxes mean changes with how it thinks you've clicked and dragged, and while you'd think that selecting "spacing mode" would make the spacing fixed and increase the number of iterations, it does not for some reason.   ???

I also finally figured out how to get the damned Search function to come up when I want it, not just when it feels like being available... and figured out how to get it to do the MIRROR and JOIN function in the same operation, which everybody with a tutorial does so effing fast you can't even see WTF they're doing. |O

Currently printing a 2nd copy as the screen area is literally 1 layer thick, and I needed to do a little releveling to get the squish right in one quadrant.

Current Settings: PLA, 215°C/60°C, 0.28LH, no adhesion, no supports, bridging mode enabled, CONCENTRIC top/bottom pattern, part rotated to place longer side in the X-axis so that it presents better to the layer cooling fan.

Separating the part from the OVERTURE print surface has taken some creative thinking due to the thin screen layer; last one came off intact by squirting alcohol all over the inside of the part as soon as printing completed, while the bed was still hot. The quick cooling seems to make a big difference. :-+

We'll see if that works again or if it was just a fluke. :-//

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=900426;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on February 28, 2021, 10:20:46 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1184006;image)

Okayyy... so tweaking first layer just traded one kind of void for another, and made it much harder to remove.

The OVERTURE print surface is a mixed evil; it makes big flat things without the corners curling up dead easy, and I really love the sandstone texture it leaves on the finished part... but getting the part off without damaging it or the print surface can be a bit of a horror show.  The alcohol trick definitely did help tho, for those of you playing along at home.  :-+

As either of these filter grilles will actually work just fine, I'm going to pick the one I like best and use it.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1184010;image)

Installing these little magnets is the first project where I've actually had a need for my new ceramic tipped tweezers (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07H1GVCBP). Better than advertised! :-+

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1184014;image)

And here it is slapped on the back of my PC, doing its job. I'm hoping it will work like the magnetic stick-on air-electrostatic filters they sell to go on a PC case (https://www.amazon.ca/s?k=magnetic+pc+filter&i=electronics&ref=nb_sb_noss_2); if not, I can always cut the mesh out and use this as a frame for that material, or maybe find some 2mm-3mm thin filter foam to go under it.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on February 28, 2021, 11:32:04 pm
Dust Bunny Protection :-DD I just did a full cleaning of my box and apart from the front fan area generally it runs well.

(https://nerdbot.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/killer-rabbit.gif)

Re Fusion mega holes or mass features can be an issue depending on the system. Manipulating high count mesh bodies is a no go on all versions and you need to look at something like Blender for that  :-- Not an issue with the actual models made in fusion but if you import a mesh to use as part of it a huge PITA.

With repeat patterns like your cover the way you draw the first and then pattern it seems to play a part. The Laser cut Glasses Case file was a horror on my old I3 Box with 8Gb but on my current 32Gb box not an issue in particular as I went back into it later and re worked the initial sketches.

The more recent cooling tray for my Coffee Roaster worked easily even with the partial holes and extra number crunching around the perimeter but as I used some of what I now know about timeline management and patterning no issues at all with this one. The Hole Layout btw is maximized for a bit over 70% open area for better airflow and hence cooling.

Keep up your Fusioning Grasshopper  :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 01, 2021, 12:43:07 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1184076;image)

Thanks... everything is a learning experience.  ;)

Yeah, my design was deliberately as fine squares as I could get away with in hopes of getting that electrostatic filtering action. 1mm squares with 0.5mm web between. I think it may have been the fact I made the holes square; maybe Frustion360 is more efficient working with round holes, as a lot of the examples I saw online showed similar density (mine is 39 x 49 x 4 sections =7644 holes) with round holes and they processed almost instantly. Of course, those guys were probably running Quadro-powered workstations optimized for their workflow as well. :-//

My original intent was to optimise the design for printing the webbing as straight lines, but no matter which pattern I chose Cura still insisted on printing every little fukkin' hole individually anyways.   :wtf:  If I'd known it was going to do that, I'd have made the holes round. |O

Fortunately, since the screen portion was only 1 layer thick, it still only took 1.75 hours per copy. :phew:

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on March 01, 2021, 05:19:35 am
I saw someone do something similar by specifying the filter area as a normal body - with selecting the infill pattern to provide the mesh.  Then, having the bottom and top layer thickness of zero left it exposed.

Why work harder than you need to?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 01, 2021, 12:37:30 pm
A flurpiderp did what with who for how many jellybeans...?  :o :o :o

mnem
I think I heard a loft in there somewhere...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 01, 2021, 12:46:52 pm
No, seriously... that sounds like something you can only do when you're modeling and slicing in the same piece of software. Please, please don't get me going down a new 3D modeling software rabbit-hole... I'm already (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=693381;image), what with falling down this dozen or so other rabbit-holes all at the same time...

mnem
(https://media.giphy.com/media/fWDGc1vqxlrWw/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 01, 2021, 12:51:01 pm
Can be done fairly easily as a bit of 'filter' but the frame would then need to be printed separately unless you play with the mesh with modifiers in blender or the slicer you are using. Personally that is really clunky but it can be done. Get used to Fusion/CAD and it is a better way to go with far more control.

The main issue with fine plastic meshes is always going to be the % of open to closed to get the right mix of keeping out what you need and not having the bars of material be way larger than the holes (under 50% open space) and choking the airflow.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 01, 2021, 01:11:48 pm
Okay... so what you're saying is that the way I did it was probably the right way to go...? Aside from maybe trying round holes if I feel like it next time...?

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 01, 2021, 01:15:41 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1184354;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1184358;image)

Boring Mundane Everyday Print #166: Play Tent Foot

I got my daughter a cheap 2-man tent for her birthday to have as a playhouse; she loves it, but the metal ends of the poles scratch on the living room floor. This snap-in foot took aboot 20 minutes to lay out in Frustion360; much less grief than the filter grille.  :phew: Made to fit standard 38mm dia self-adhesive felt floor protector pads; snap-fit into 8.7mm dia x 7mm hole.  :-+

Printed in BLACK PLA, 215°C/60°C, 0.28mm LH, infill manually set at 2mm grid pattern, 1.2mm walls, 0.84mm top/bottom w/concentric pattern, no adhesion, no supports. Print speed 60mm/Sec; printing took 2.5 hours all pieces including single test print which was used as final product.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on March 01, 2021, 01:36:31 pm
This is what I saw.....

https://youtu.be/xc-6xVB9H4I (https://youtu.be/xc-6xVB9H4I)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 01, 2021, 02:06:20 pm
Well okay... that is technically doing it in the slicer, but jeez... using Cura for your primary CAD modeling is like doing brain surgery with a hatchet.  :-DD

Trying to make the fillets and ribs and recesses for the little disc magnets... just thinking aboot that gives me heartburn.  ;)

mnem
:o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on March 01, 2021, 02:16:31 pm
using Cura for your primary CAD modeling is like doing brain surgery with a hatchet.
A tool is a tool is a tool.  Chainsaws were invented by surgeons to cut bone, predating any use with timber by at least a quarter of a century.  :o

I'd say that jobs where you wish to control the extrusion process to the teeth (without a chainsaw), like filter grids, are appropriate places to reach for oddball tools.  I prefer metal meshes, but if I were to 3D-print one, I'd like to do a triangular grid with single continuous extruded strands, round-robin interleaved in the three directions...  I think I'd probably generate the Gcode for this programmatically.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 01, 2021, 04:03:57 pm
(https://64.media.tumblr.com/631641804e21a4a45810ab0dc79f6e22/tumblr_inline_mocmirmhCa1rlpk9c.gif)

mnem
So... I should use a chainsaw instead of a hatchet...?   :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on March 01, 2021, 06:49:18 pm
So... I should use a chainsaw instead of a hatchet...?   :o
For brain surgery, most definitely.

As to the problem at hand, I really don't know which tool would be best to do the mesh grid.  The more I think about it, the more I sway towards creating the overall part without the mesh itself, say with a thin cross (X) where the mesh would need to be, in whatever program.  Then, I'd slice that, and use the thin cross to determine where the mesh generation part would go, replacing it with externally generated Gcode for the filter mesh only.

Granted, I'm a weirdo; I've often done that sort of stuff, ever since I learned PostScript to do that sort of thing to preprocessed output, oh, almost three decades ago now.  (I think my first one was a serial number generator, where each sheet had several separate parts with their own serial number each.  Yes, they were some sort of admission tickets.)

This is also why I'd like to see more programming options in the slicing phase.  For example, the filter layer could be defined just as a volumetric region - say, defined as the union of cuboids and spheres and convex polyhedra - with the mesh definition as a property, with the slicer generating the mesh part parametrically, just like it does for infills and such.

But anyway, I know nothing.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on March 01, 2021, 11:27:27 pm
Well okay... that is technically doing it in the slicer, but jeez... using Cura for your primary CAD modeling is like doing brain surgery with a hatchet.  :-DD

Trying to make the fillets and ribs and recesses for the little disc magnets... just thinking aboot that gives me heartburn.  ;)

mnem
:o
I would have approached it like this....

Create 2 bodies - one with all the CAD glory you care to impart and the other just a simple shape which defines the mesh volume.  Bring both into the slicer, align and then apply the appropriate settings to each.  This completely offloads the filter mesh creation to the slicer, saving your CAD engine from herniating.

You also get to play with different infill patterns really easily, to find the best mesh design.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 01, 2021, 11:52:20 pm
And I would have done this with a bit of filter fabric or stainless mesh I have in my stash and made the plastic bit the holder for it for more airflow and better dust trapping :-DD

Added front end shot of my Coolermaster case as the back end is the exhaust and the case has a positive pressure no need for a filter back there  ;)

101 ways to skin a ....... and to agitate a Dragon >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 02, 2021, 12:19:28 am
Yeah, but if I'd done it any other way, I wouldn't have learned that Cura would process the grid that way, and I wouldn't have learned how to wrangle patterns, and I wouldn't have learned that for all the hype, Frustion360 is just like my son when it comes to making it think hard: A whiny little punk-ass.  :-DD

I get that we have a regiment's worth of tools at hand... I'm still at the "This is a ratchet, this is a socket, these are extensions and they help you get your worky bits where they need to be so you can put your engine together" stage. Let's not break my brain with the Sonic Screwdriver just yet.  ;)

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on March 02, 2021, 12:26:14 am
The last time I made a filter for my computer case, it consisted of a piece of plywood cut to the shape of the hole, some cardboard glued to it, shaped to provide the duct, a piece of expanded metal for a grille and some black speaker cloth to make it look pretty.

Works really well, too.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on March 02, 2021, 01:56:56 am
As neat as 3D printers are, they sometimes aren't the best tool for the job.  Or for the whole job.   
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 02, 2021, 02:44:36 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1184014;image)

Arguably, it was Frustion360 was the weak link here... the printer turned out the design just fine, once the modeling was done. Was it perfection? No. Was it usable? Damn skippy. And at 40¢ worth of filament, plus another 40¢ for magnets, definitely the cheapest solution by far. Okay, 80¢ worth of filament, as I printed it twice.  ::)

The knowledge gained, IMO, far outweighed the time spent. A whole new class of objects I know how to design now. Plus, a better understanding of the strengths and weaknesses of my chosen 3D modeling environment. :-+

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 05, 2021, 10:51:08 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1187326;image)



Boring Mundane Everyday Interesting Fun Project Print #772: Bracket for Matrexx 70 Case

My son and I are building his first Gaming Rig; A Ryzen 5/Aorus Elite machine with my old RX580 GPU. I'm kicking my old case down for the build; that way I get the fun of building mine into a case designed for dual AiO liquid-cooling.

One of the nice bits of this thing is a glass shelf inside; it is supported by a HDD cage in the PSU tunnel. For obvious reasons, I wanted that to go away, so I'm printing up this bracket to attach to existing architecture inside the case.

Printed in BLACK PLA, 215°C/60°C, 0.28mm LH, infill manually set at 1mm grid pattern (this to produce adequate rigidity as I need to hand-fit to get the screw holes exactly right), 1.2mm walls, 0.84mm top/bottom w/concentric pattern, no adhesion, no supports. Cura sez 1 hour 55 min; I'll report back with pics when it's been fitted.

I'm bumping print speed up again to 70mm/Sec; pray for me.  >:D

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Mr. Scram on March 09, 2021, 07:39:18 am
As neat as 3D printers are, they sometimes aren't the best tool for the job.  Or for the whole job.
I'd argue they usually aren't, they're just a useful shortcut to quickly arrive at so-so results.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 09, 2021, 07:50:15 am
As neat as 3D printers are, they sometimes aren't the best tool for the job.  Or for the whole job.
I'd argue they usually aren't, they're just a useful shortcut to quickly arrive at so-so results.

What a load of Rash Generalized dismissive CRAP !  "So-So" massively understates the results of even the cheap end of the market printers can do let alone what the commercial end of the market produces.

Want a fight over this then happy to provide examples  :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 09, 2021, 11:54:00 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1190036;image)

Boring Mundane Everyday Interesting Fun Project Print #774: Wherew0lf Escutcheon Plate for AiO CPU Cooler

My son and I are building his first Gaming Rig; we're getting down to the last few items. A special thing for him; I'm making an escutcheon in the form of his custom-commissioned Wherew0lf gamer avatar to go on the pump for his AiO CPU liquid-cooler.

STL created by one of those online Lithopane generators. KISS principle, sez I.  :-+

Tonight, trying something I haven't done since my Tarantula days; 0.12 LH and 0.20 nozzle for super tiny detail work. :scared:

Printed in BLACK PLA, 215°C/60°C, 0.12mm LH 0.20 nozzle, infill manually set at 1mm grid pattern 0.84mm walls, 0.84mm top/bottom w/concentric pattern, no adhesion, no supports. Cura sez 1 hour 57 min; I'll report back with pics when it's been fitted.

I'm bumping print speed down to 40mm/Sec in hopes of better finish; pray for me.  >:D

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 10, 2021, 12:21:13 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1187326;image)

Boring Mundane Everyday Interesting Fun Project Print #772: Bracket for Matrexx 70 Case

My son and I are building his first Gaming Rig; A Ryzen 5/Aorus Elite machine with my old RX580 GPU. I'm kicking my old case down for the build; that way I get the fun of building mine into a case designed for dual AiO liquid-cooling.

One of the nice bits of this thing is a glass shelf inside; it is supported by a HDD cage in the PSU tunnel. For obvious reasons, I wanted that to go away, so I'm printing up this bracket to attach to existing architecture inside the case.

Printed in BLACK PLA, 215°C/60°C, 0.28mm LH, infill manually set at 1mm grid pattern (this to produce adequate rigidity as I need to hand-fit to get the screw holes exactly right), 1.2mm walls, 0.84mm top/bottom w/concentric pattern, no adhesion, no supports. Cura sez 1 hour 55 min; I'll report back with pics when it's been fitted.

I'm bumping print speed up again to 70mm/Sec; pray for me.  >:D

mnem
 :-/O

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1190062;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1190066;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1190070;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1190074;image)   

This took several iterations to get it exactly how I wanted it; end result is considerably different from the crude clip angle above.

However, fit is perfect and required zero modifications to the original PC case.  :-+

mnem
*back to father-son time*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on March 10, 2021, 03:47:23 am

...pray for me.  >:D


Well.....?    >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 10, 2021, 04:01:43 am

...pray for me.  >:D


Well.....?    >:D

A loop of molten high speed filament spurted sideways and strangled him?   >:D Never really been to worried about 'speed' as most of what I do is for me or I can always fire up a 'spare' printer if needed  :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 10, 2021, 06:43:47 am
Actually, going 70mm/s worked a treat on the T-bracket. Saved me more than a hour over the course of several iterations of trial & error getting to the final version that fit exactly as desired. :-+

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1190202;image)

Dropping down to 0.12LH/0.20 nozzle on the Wherew0lf water pump badge was a bit of a hot mess; seemed no matter what different settings I tried, just made the cosmetics of the last few layers worse and worse.

In the end, I just kept the 2nd one I'd made at 0.20LH/0.40 nozzle.  :palm:

The boi plotzed when he saw it anyways, and he loves it. Once it's inside under the glass side cover, I'm sure I'll be the only one who cares that it wasn't better resolution. :-//


mnem
Never challenge Murphy.  ::)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 15, 2021, 04:55:26 am
For more cool factor than just the application of 3D printed bits. Plenty of other reaction wheel stuff on the channel if it floats your boat.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRYWyitRFRw (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xRYWyitRFRw)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT9be_IoEw8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sT9be_IoEw8)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 17, 2021, 02:15:50 am
Worth having a look at what HP is up to in 3D printing tech https://www8.hp.com/us/en/printers/3d-printers.html (https://www8.hp.com/us/en/printers/3d-printers.html)

and also much as it is outside of the 'normal' EE sphere Velo is worth a look at for Metal printing and their software https://www.velo3d.com/ (https://www.velo3d.com/)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 17, 2021, 04:06:08 am
Yeah... I linked to their partnership with VW a while back in the TEA thread. Will be interesting the see how this infant technology grows from first wobbly steps to a full-production gallop in a decade or two. Star Trek transtator-based Replicators are still a ways off... but the kind of fabbers from Schlock Mercenary could be here before I die.  :-+

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 24, 2021, 01:17:59 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1201192;image)

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4773714/files (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4773714/files)

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on March 24, 2021, 07:10:09 am
 :-+ :-+ :-+ :-+

(Should be black, though.)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 27, 2021, 05:37:42 pm
Yeah; that's just the default from the creator's 3D Modeling program. I see that a lot; guess I'm weird in that I have my Frustion360 defaulted to black PLA material type. ;)

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: AVGresponding on March 27, 2021, 05:46:57 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1201192;image)

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4773714/files (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4773714/files)

mnem
 :-/O

:-+ :-+ :-+ :-+

(Should be black, though.)

Should be leaking fuel like it's going out of fashion...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 27, 2021, 07:31:42 pm
You mean power-steering fluid.  >:D

mnem
 :bullshit:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 28, 2021, 06:35:34 am
Finally got around to opening "The Box"  (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/msg3404176/#msg3404176) today as I have another 'idea' percolating in my pile of grey matter  :palm: Of course the bits I want are at the bottom and the several heated printer beds are not shown :-DD

It will require 3D printing, 8mm rods and ballscrews and no electronics - what am I  >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: AVGresponding on March 28, 2021, 01:46:12 pm
You mean power-steering fluid.  >:D

mnem
 :bullshit:

Possibly that also, but they famously had leaky fuel tanks on the ground because of the thermal expansion at operating speed.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mawyatt on March 28, 2021, 03:56:41 pm
You mean power-steering fluid.  >:D

mnem
 :bullshit:

Possibly that also, but they famously had leaky fuel tanks on the ground because of the thermal expansion at operating speed.

A former colleague's dad flew the SR71, what an airplane!! Yes, they did leak fuel which was a special type fuel, not the standard jet fuel. Many fascinating stories on-line, like the transportation from Lockheed Skunkworks to the test area 51. Here's a couple images from the Air & Space Museum from 2013.

Best,
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mawyatt on March 28, 2021, 04:04:25 pm
A few more.

BTW a fun story behind these SR71s. Back in 1980s was an experimental program called Homing Overlay Experiment, see details here.

https://www.smdc.army.mil/Portals/38/Documents/Publications/History/Eagle%20articles/TheHomingOverlayExperiment.pdf?ver=2019-01-11-144934-457 (https://www.smdc.army.mil/Portals/38/Documents/Publications/History/Eagle%20articles/TheHomingOverlayExperiment.pdf?ver=2019-01-11-144934-457)

A video was made of the successful ICBM intercept in space will a "Kinetic Kill", and later provided to the media without an explanation of who took the video. The media assumed, as did most, that the video was from a satellite looking down on the ICBM intercept. Reality was it was from a SR71 that flew to max altitude, turning upside down and opened the underbelly doors and took the video!!

Impressive airplane indeed!!! 

Best,
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on March 28, 2021, 06:42:25 pm
You mean power-steering fluid.  >:D

mnem
 :bullshit:
Possibly that also, but they famously had leaky fuel tanks on the ground because of the thermal expansion at operating speed.
A former colleague's dad flew the SR71, what an airplane!! Yes, they did leak fuel which was a special type fuel, not the standard jet fuel. Many fascinating stories on-line, like the transportation from Lockheed Skunkworks to the test area 51. Here's a couple images from the Air & Space Museum from 2013.

Best,

The fuel was JP-7, specially formulated to be extra-low volatility (due to Mach3 heat generation) and with lubricants added to serve as hydraulic fluid for all the power-assisted flight control surfaces. It was done this way such that the fluid was recirculated back into the tank for cooling, as it is essentially the biggest heat sink mass in a vehicle which is mostly fuel tank.

www.habu.org

http://www.sr71.us/

If you follow the links on these sites... you will be very deep in the rabbit-hole before you know it. Let us know how you fared when you resurface in a couple weeks. >:D

mnem
"tongue-tied and twisted, just an earth-bound misfit; I..."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mawyatt on March 28, 2021, 06:55:56 pm
Already been down that rabbit hole ~45 years ago, still not out ;D

Quite a bit of info about the SR71 in the early days as we supplied the IMU which were based upon the Electrostatically Suspended Gyros, ESG. I didn't work directly on these but a few colleagues did. Amazing stories behind the development and initial deployments, like something out of James Bond, even Tom Clancy would have liked these stories >:D

Best,
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on March 31, 2021, 08:12:22 am
Todays Useful Print idea and because filling 15 holes is 'aspirational'  :-DD

Plan is to print it on edge with supports for the flange for strength and support marks will be completely hidden by the frame of the iron. Not on the printer yet just going to think about it some more. Rear row sits about 15mm higher but still 45mm of the tip is supported inside the block.

Heavy on the Layers and 20-25% infill at this stage.

EDIT
Also tweaked it for a less aspirational and likely more 'practical' 5 Banger providing the sample one works out both will get posted.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 01, 2021, 08:54:57 am
Ok so like WOW  :o 90 degree overhangs without supports.... https://xyzdims.com/2021/03/03/3d-printing-90-overhangs-without-support-structure-with-non-planar-slicing-on-3-axis-printer/?s=09 (https://xyzdims.com/2021/03/03/3d-printing-90-overhangs-without-support-structure-with-non-planar-slicing-on-3-axis-printer/?s=09) Still a work in progress but really worth following.

Other good news is the last of the Stratasys  :horse: Patents on heated chambers is expiring so time for off the shelf heated chambers to become more widespread.

(https://xyzdims.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Screenshot-from-2021-02-28-11-34-43.png)

(https://xyzdims.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/slicing-20deg-waterm.png)

(https://xyzdims.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/20210304_183122.jpg)

Discussed here and some other good stuff as always but skip to 30 minutes for 3D printing content unless you like a ramble on life  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_O9hvhrL78 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o_O9hvhrL78)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 14, 2021, 07:05:21 am
Out of the stash of bits from a while ago there was two MKS boards I have dropped GRBL onto for CNC jobs rather than 3DP. Firmware upload was easy but no go on the stepper drives  :--

Using the rule of checking voltages no Volts to the stepper Vmot so off to Github https://github.com/makerbase-mks?tab=repositories which is fairly comprehensive in particular for a Chinese company  :-+ Schematics, BOM, Layouts and it turns out these boards have five fuses on them. Both have blown F2's 12 and 15A respectively in a 1206 package.

Guess which of the items I have NONE of in SMD  |O So the SMD equivalent of a 2" nail was deployed for 'testing' purposes until the replacements get here.

Easy fix and if you have a dud MKS or find a 'dud' it might be all that is needed if the former owner was a Butcher.

Smoothieboard is heading for my Laser but I was playing with Steppers on the bench so it was out of the box for a play.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 18, 2021, 05:15:38 am
More of an artistic (Mesh Mixer/Blender too) thing than a strictly Fusion thing but a nice simply way to take a 2D image and convert it into a Mesh then a Form and into a printable/machinable surface.

Should work best with higher contrast or grayscale images. Extrude it to a thin wall and make Lithophanes or like mine a flat base for inclusion into other projects.

Fusion addin https://github.com/hanskellner/Fusion360Image2Surface (https://github.com/hanskellner/Fusion360Image2Surface)

Simple well explained how to

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChdJ8nL7qQA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ChdJ8nL7qQA)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 18, 2021, 05:48:27 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1190202;image)

I found myself doing just that the hard way with the badge for my son's CPU cooler; eventually gave up and dropped the pic into one of those webpages that will generate a STL for 3DP lithophane. That's probably why I had so much trouble tuning the print for higher resolution; but at the end of the day... well, it was the end of the day and I was fucking tired.  :-DD

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on April 26, 2021, 04:23:43 am
So I think I need to stop watching 'recommended videos' on Youtube  :palm: The Random questionable device is an Eggbot. Already a heap of variations and derivations out there but if you have a junked 3D printer or a few spares you can make one for not much for no reason at all.

I am planning to make the sliders and arm assembly from Laser cut 4mm acrylic but fairly simple to tweak it to make the bits from 3D printed models. All the bits for the build so far came out of the recent Evilbay junk box including all the electronics which will be an Arduino Mega and Ramps Shield. Will fit from 100mm diameter Balls down to small eggs or less.

Still having a bit of a think on the clamping mechanism but two cups and the right side will have a shaft and spring of some sort.

Model here for a looksee up close or to take some measurements from https://a360.co/2QumNYY (https://a360.co/2QumNYY)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wc1LZkNO6A (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Wc1LZkNO6A)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: AVGresponding on May 01, 2021, 10:44:04 am
Has anybody tried printing drive belts with TPU or whatever, yet?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 02, 2021, 08:36:58 pm
Ever, anywhere...? Certainly: https://hackaday.com/2017/11/03/3d-printing-belts-for-vintage-hardware/


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD1J54ccrR0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD1J54ccrR0)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEON9Oi89L8 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEON9Oi89L8)


Users in here...? Not sure. I've only done TPU a few times back when I had my Tornado, and then mostly bumpers and antenna holders and the like  for my whirry little flying things.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 03, 2021, 02:56:06 am
Because using an undetermined stretchy rubber band for a positional reference device is a 'good idea'  :palm: As to using a relatively low temperature capable TPU on a car engine with no internal reinforcement then  :palm: :palm:

If all you want the band for is to spin up a turntable platter for example then yep print away, just not for conditions where temperature, undetermined tension or stretch will cause issues.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: AVGresponding on May 03, 2021, 03:06:08 pm
It's for functional drive in a linear tracking turntable. Basically the small square section type stuff that you find in a lot of old mechanical audio equipment.

tbh it's probably simpler to order some, so I have...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 04, 2021, 02:14:31 am
You mean that uber-long serpentine belt in the loading/robotics mechanism?

Ehhh... I'd def buy that. Aside from TPU being stretchy, its consistency will be different from the original so will tend to "walk" on the pulleys. As you will not be able to make it perfectly square, especially at that small a cross-section, I'd be concerned aboot it rolling, which will probably also affect positional accuracy. While these kinds of mechanisms can deal with some slippage, they often cannot handle more than a few mm one way or another when trying to perform a task.

IIRC, your TT is DD, so not for the platter. On those, I found the hard way that slap caused by using those "cut to fit & glue" belts almost always translates into cyclic rumble while playing. I would expect the same from the irregular surface you'd get from printing it in TPU.

mnem
:-//
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 04, 2021, 02:18:56 pm
Might be interesting to load up for a play for any of you using Fusion. I will give it a bit of a bash tomorrow on a few of my more challenging models and see how it goes.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toTw9TQas7w (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=toTw9TQas7w)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 09, 2021, 07:05:24 pm
This weekend's 3DP Project:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1217895;image)

18650 Li-Ion Battery for the headlight on my fatBike.

This is "iterative design" at its best; even if a bit time-consuming. 6 partial and complete iterations before I got a final product that fits perfectly inside and out, but I got it just right without making it thin & flimsy.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1217899;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1217897;image)

Here's final assembly; the battery pack has all what I call "electronic LEGOs" parts in it; a TP4056 charger/protection board, and there's a toggle switch for main power. To keep the walls from being too thin and weak, I had to use a strip of FPC for the battery negative. The cable is made of common 5.5mm coaxial DC power pigtails with 1/4 turn lock sold for CCTV; they are another of the "electronic LEGOs" type parts I keep on hand. At ~$2 each for 18650 cell, TP4056 PCB, switch and cable pigtail, total CAD$8-ish plus another couple dollars worth of filament, including extra iterations.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1217901;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1217907;image)

I really liked this little CNC headlamp the moment I saw it on Amazon; it was crazy cheap (like CAD$12), but it's got a genuine Cree XML (probably a reject for color; it is a bit on the bluish side even for a T6) so good for legit 180-ish lumens from a single 18650 cell. It has a CC driver in it that'll power safely from 3-9ish volts.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1217903;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1217905;image)

Here it is on the bike. Entire thing slips inside the hollow handlebar stem riser. Main power switch and u-USB charge port are recessed so nothing protruding.  :-+ When I had to go with the handlebar riser tube because my extended handlebar neck simply wasn't high enough, it  seemed obvious that this was just how the thing had to be... ;)

Printed on my Diggro Alpha3 in 3D SoluTech brand PLA, 0.20LH, 60mm/s, support touching buildplate only, infill manually set to 1mm, 1.2mm top/bottom thickness & 0.8mm walls, and bridging mode enabled.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 10, 2021, 05:28:20 pm
Today's 3DP Project: Battery for my son's BT Speaker.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1218164;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1218166;image)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyQIZdR9wGE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NyQIZdR9wGE)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1218168;image)

Approx 8 hour print; most of what you see here is waste/supports which will be removed as the bottom of the part has a 5mm deep ridge all around it. I started out with the smaller part, just to fit against the speaker as a reality test; I realized as I was handling it that it could be the cover for the battery box if I designed carefully.

Battery box designed to fit Velcro'd to back of iHome iBT25 speaker; wing-loops will act as protective ridge for 5.5mm DC plug.

Lets hope I designed it right. ;)

Printed on my Diggro Alpha3 in 3D SoluTech brand PLA, 0.28LH, 60mm/s, support touching buildplate only, infill manually set to 1mm grid, 1.2mm top/bottom thickness & 0.8mm walls, and bridging mode enabled. Supports set to 40% and GRID.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 11, 2021, 01:35:09 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1218275;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1218277;image)   

And finished printing. Drill a hole for the wire, add battery pack & Velcro, glue together.
   
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1218279;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1218281;image)

Fits & works great; and only looks slightly ridiculous stuck on there. ;)

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on May 11, 2021, 01:20:18 pm
For bonus points you could have followed the taper of the speaker - or are you just not that into masochism?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 11, 2021, 05:46:35 pm
Naaahhh... that was the original idea, but laying out with a few scraps of cardboard showed that the yield space of the battery compartment was iffy, and the wing-loop would've interfered with the DC plug.

Also, as you suggest, not interested in that much misery for dubious benefit. ;)

mnem
"There's enough misery to go around without grabbing for more." ~mom
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 14, 2021, 03:22:22 am
Todays Coffee Fueled Fusioning because I needed to drill some 2020 sections out for tapping the ends. Included in the Zip is the STL file for 3D printing and a DXF and SVG for Laser cutting (** 0.17mm kerf already allowed for in the Laser files)

3mm pilot drill hole is deliberate as a spotting/pilot size then drill to 5mm for the M5 bolt for the 90 degree thread. Also would allow a few resizes as it gets some wear in the bore over use. Body size is 40x40mm for easier measuring off the face in the case of the lateral jig. Print it HEAVY  ;)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 15, 2021, 04:14:50 am
@bean -

Yeah, they make a jig specifically for doing that; it has a hardened insert and there's even a stepped drill now that will cut reliefs in the wings of the 2020 for the head of the bolt. But of course, they are crazy expensive unless you're doing production quantities of holes.


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1219319;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1218785;image)

Current project; a 6S 18650 cell holder for cell testing with my big charger. Uses the Keystone #209 battery clips I posted in the TEA thread; only, unlike every other motherplucking one of these cell holders on ThingiVerse, it actually uses them right side up.  :palm:

Just goes to show you, not everybody who knows 3DP and CADD knows WTF they're doing.  ::)

Those with a sharp eye will notice a separation line; that's where I cut the first cell off and made a STL of just that one for future use and Lego-ing as many as I want together in the slicer.

That one is printing; when it's done I'll post pics if everything fits as expected before moving on to the full 6S model.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 15, 2021, 05:22:41 am
@bean -

Yeah, they make a jig specifically for doing that; it has a hardened insert and there's even a stepped drill now that will cut reliefs in the wings of the 2020 for the head of the bolt. But of course, they are crazy expensive unless you're doing production quantities of holes.


Current project; a 6S 18650 cell holder for cell testing with my big charger. Uses the Keystone #209 battery clips I posted in the TEA thread; only, unlike every other motherplucking one on ThingiVerse, it actually uses them right side up.  :palm:

Just goes to show you, not everybody who knows 3DP and CADD knows WTF they're doing.  ::)

Those with a sharp eye will notice a separation line; that's where I cut the first cell off and made a STL of just that one for future use and Lego-ing as many as I want together in the slicer.

That one is printing; when it's done I'll post pics if everything fits as expected before moving on to the full 6S model.

mnem
 :-/O

Cut them out today along with another drilling jig for mounting my Microscope to the chopping board base. Stick the template down, Zero mark out 3 holes at 35mm PCD - done  ;)

I have a decent range of thin walled stainless tube so no reason really not to add a bush to MK2 but I will see how these are lasting first. Reality is they are only for spotting the hole as much as anything with a drill press so you could in theory clamp the 2020 and remove the jig before drilling.

The question should be with your model why didn't you make and induvial one that will clip to it's neighbor for solo or multi cell printing  >:D Keep on Fusioning .....
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 15, 2021, 04:01:25 pm
...The question should be with your model why didn't you make and individual one that will clip to it's neighbor for solo or multi cell printing  >:D Keep on Fusioning .....

Yeah, I thought aboot doing that... then I realized that A) Those kinds of projects always look like ASS because of keystone/dovetail joints, B) they always use a lot more material, 3) they're never as rigid as a single printed piece, and D) I don't have to do that much work just for the sake of other lazy dumbasses who can't be arsed to do a couple minutes' layout work in the slicer for their custom-sized 18650 cell holder.  :-DD

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1219464;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1219466;image)

Here's the 1S version; as you can see, it looks nice & tidy as-is just hacked off the whole model. I made it slightly oversized; 19mm wide slot and the contacts are a bit loose (on a plain cell with no button they compress the contacts aboot 2mm each) to accommodate both button-end cells and xP cell groups like this where the tab is still attached and folded over.

3P cells like this are probably the single most common layout I've found in busted laptop packs; it is easiest to work with multiples of 3 either as a 3P cell or if you need 1P packs, to build from these 3P cells as they are likeliest to still be pretty well-matched to each other. All you have to do is find 2 3P cells with similar IR and tested capacity to make a half-decent 6S1P pack, for example.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1219468;image)

Right now I'm printing a 2S version made of just this part overlapping itself in Cura; preview looks perfectly happy with this, so we'll see what the ol' DIGGRO turns out.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 15, 2021, 06:14:20 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1219502;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1219504;image)

And here's the 2S version. I ran out of filament between these two; obviously I need to tweak temps and extrusion for the new filament. But even with large print faults like these, still a usable part. I trimmed off the random curly hairs and the contacts snap right in with good engagement of lock tabs and cells slide in/out easily. That's what I call a good design.  :-+

I do need to get in the habit of cutting my wires to length and soldering up first tho. ;)

Both parts printed on my Diggro Alpha3 in 3D SoluTech and (2S version) FLASHFORGE brand Black PLA; 0.28LH, 60mm/s, no supports and part rotated to benefit bridging, infill manually set to 1mm grid, 1.2mm top/bottom thickness & 0.8mm walls, with bridging mode enabled.

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 16, 2021, 06:22:39 am
Ok used the Acrylic ones today. Drill vice and everything locked down. After the first one (slight removal of acrylic on the bore) the Guide was then removed and drilled for an easy accurate setup. Much as it is only a cosmetic thing adding another pair for the 8.5mm opening for the bolt heads might be nice too.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 16, 2021, 05:09:51 pm
Yeah; that's how they get you, the bastards.  >:D The jig kit from the 8020 suppliers has a special drill bit with 180° face and a pilot dowel so it's just a quick zip after drilling the main hole.

Don't get me wrong; it looks good. That's aboot as good as you can possibly get short of doing a plunge-cut on a Bridgeport with an appropriate-diameter end-mill.  :-+

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 17, 2021, 03:33:46 am
Bit of AliExpress poking around yielded a good result for the counterbore drill M5 (5.5/9.5) TiN coated 180 degree (https://www.aliexpress.com/item/4000349882710.html?spm=a2g0o.productlist.0.0.320345feVy03PX&algo_pvid=null&algo_expid=null&btsid=0b0a556716212211217066437ec45b&ws_ab_test=searchweb0_0,searchweb201602_,searchweb201603_) Instead of what I drilled to clear the larger diameter will give a neat clearance for Button Heads due to the 9.5mm major diameter. The 5.5mm minor bore is a touch loose but the 8020 standard one is 5.2mm so not to worried.

(https://ae01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1ocnZarr1gK0jSZR0q6zP8XXa9.jpg)

Ordered the counterbore drill as it will get a lot of use when I get to my large Laser build. And I will re upload a tweaked set of templates in this post with a 4mm hole as I did a little more thinking (it hurt a lot ;) ) and given it is aluminium skipping the pilot hole and straight to a 5mm hole isn't a real stretch. Turns out the generic automatic punch runs a 4mm pin so easy sorted or grind a point on a 3 or 4mm parallel pin punch :-+

edit zip file below. Anyone Laser cutting it already allows for a 0.17mm Kerf in the files. Also maybe try a triple stack for a flip over single template.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 19, 2021, 04:49:02 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1220707;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1220709;image)

I used circular pattern in frustion360 today.

mnem
toddles off to buy bolts... and a vise...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 30, 2021, 03:03:00 am
Interesting alternate material sort of like PETG on steroids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FtnXYDi7z0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FtnXYDi7z0)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: AVGresponding on May 30, 2021, 08:44:47 am
You mean that uber-long serpentine belt in the loading/robotics mechanism?

Ehhh... I'd def buy that. Aside from TPU being stretchy, its consistency will be different from the original so will tend to "walk" on the pulleys. As you will not be able to make it perfectly square, especially at that small a cross-section, I'd be concerned aboot it rolling, which will probably also affect positional accuracy. While these kinds of mechanisms can deal with some slippage, they often cannot handle more than a few mm one way or another when trying to perform a task.

IIRC, your TT is DD, so not for the platter. On those, I found the hard way that slap caused by using those "cut to fit & glue" belts almost always translates into cyclic rumble while playing. I would expect the same from the irregular surface you'd get from printing it in TPU.

mnem
:-//

Sorry for the tardy reply, I haven't gotten into the habit of checking this part of the forums regularly yet. It's a belt drive, the main belt is fine, fortunately.

It's the small one that drives the (fecking heavy) drawer mechanism, 40mm diameter or so. I ordered a pack with various sizes; there's always something that needs one, I believe my surround amp power volume needs one too as it sometimes sticks, symptom of an aged belt I reckon.

That drawer mechanism is too slow for my liking, I might have to fit a bigger motor, I wonder if I have a spare 540...   :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Microdoser on June 01, 2021, 01:31:44 pm
Interesting alternate material sort of like PETG on steroids.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FtnXYDi7z0 (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-FtnXYDi7z0)

It does indeed look interesting although for my printer (CR10s Pro V2), I would need an aftermarket hotend to get over 260C although I am thinking of getting one because of bowden tube issues and if I'm getting a direct drive anyway, why not upgrade the hotend, eh?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 04, 2021, 08:42:54 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1225039;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1225041;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1225043;image)

Random FUN bit of 3DP around the house...

Started these a few days ago, after printing med's 454 feet. Purpose is to recycle these reclaimed bed-slats into quickie-deploy goals for RC Rocket League with the boy. :-+

At only ~40% infill, still plenty strong enough to pound into the ground with the palm of my hand; even stood up to a couple whacks with a 4 ft 2x4 to set them firmly. Approximately 22 printer-hours between the 4 parts.

Printed on my CR-6SE in the free white filament that came with, and my Diggro Alpha3 3D in Overture Blue PLA; 0.28LH, 60mm/s, 215°C/60°C Bed, no adhesion, no supports, infill manually set to 2mm grid, 1.2mm top/bottom thickness & 1.2mm walls, with combing & bridging mode enabled and part rotated to benefit bridging.

mnem
I know... I have a strange definition of "fun". :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 06, 2021, 06:32:49 am
Just need to double check the dimensions of a Galvanised M16 Nut (minor tweak to 5/8" if needed) before punching the print button on this. Part of a leather stitching pony because all activities are better with proper jigs and workholding ....

Had a good trawl around locally for an M16 speed knob and it is either a no or loads of $ so a little fusioning and this one was the result. It will need lots of support under the handle and printed heavy at 6 layers and 40% infill nearly 10 hours. $2 worth of PLA vs $40+ for a commercial one.

Also just for Randomness the PDF drawing of the Pony is in attached below along with the STL of the Speed Knob and also the Pony if you want to tweak the knob for other sizes.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: tautech on June 06, 2021, 07:28:12 am
Just need to double check the dimensions of a Galvanised M16 Nut (minor tweak to 5/8" if needed) before punching the print button on this.
You do as M10 nuts can be 16 or 17mm.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 09, 2021, 11:16:06 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1226604;image)

Boring Mundane Everyday Print #188: FrankenFan Foot Fillers

Printing up these filler pieces to make it so the rubber feet on FrankenFan can reach the floor; I resurrected my favorite fan by grafting a base off a different one to it, but had to stretch the fu** out of the base, which warped the bottom all to Hell. But it works. :P

Printed on my Diggro Alpha3 3D in FLASHFORGE Brand BLACK PLA; 0.28LH, 60mm/s, 200°C/60°C Bed, no adhesion, no supports, infill 20% grid, 1.2mm top/bottom thickness & 0.8mm walls, with combing & bridging mode enabled and part rotated to benefit bridging.

mnem
I can't hear you saying how ugly it is over the sound of that cool breeze from my favorite fan being back in service.   :-DD
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 10, 2021, 05:47:55 pm
Boring Mundane Everyday Interesting Fun Project Print #788: Thumb Throttle for eBike

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1226793;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1226795;image)   

While I wait on bits for my fatBike, I've dragged out the boy's 26" MTB which has that hub motor already installed. This kit came with a motorcycle-style twist-throttle; it simply will not work with the MTB which is equipped with twist-shifters both sides already. I could order a thumb-throttle, but anything that would get here before the summer is almost over costs $40 plus, and still won't reach around the body of the twist-shifter like this one is designed to do.

Object is to bond the thumb-ring using epoxy to the little bit with the magnet (even this little cheapie uses a Hall sensor) cut off of the old twist-throttle; this whole assembly will then be sandwiched between the twist-shifter and the brake lever inboard.

Lets see if it works as well as I hoped; the layout was much easier than originally planned for trying to design the whole thing with magnet holder/retainer/return spring stay, and the wall thickness was just not reasonable for any real strength with FDM anyways.

Printed on my Diggro Alpha3 3D in FLASHFORGE Brand BLACK PLA; 0.28LH, 60mm/s, 200°C/60°C Bed, no adhesion, no supports, infill set manually to 2mm grid, 1.2mm top/bottom/wall thickness, with combing & bridging mode enabled and part rotated to benefit bridging. Total time:67 min

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 10, 2021, 08:49:54 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1226830;image)

And here it is, all put together on the bike; while I was in there, we upgraded to a 4" riser gooseneck and installed the brake levers from the eBike kit which have kill-switches for the ESC in them.

With all that crap in one spot on the handlebars, getting everything right where it needs to be is a bit of a juggling act. For now, I have the thumb ring bonded to the magnet ring with just 3 dots of CA until we have a chance to test it, just in case I have to break it apart and re-clock the thumb-peg to a different idle position.

I really like this arrangement; it feels quite natural with the thumb-peg wrapping around the body of the twist-shifter. I like it better even than the thumb-throttle I paid money for to put on my fatBike.  :o   I may wind up doing this again real soon... ;)

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 11, 2021, 03:41:50 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1227045;image)
  https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4299193 (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4299193)


mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 13, 2021, 02:26:50 pm
Needed a fascia mount for a Deans Connector and no way in hell I am paying $10 for one and having to wait for it as well :palm:

So Rolled my own. I really need a slimline one  for a particular job so a custom was needed really. It is something I had sort of been going to do for some time. Stupid thing had to be measured in both fractional and decimal thousand of an inch before I modelled it :palm:

Plan will be scuff up both bits and a little Epoxy for grip and hold.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mawyatt on June 13, 2021, 02:30:47 pm
Needed a fascia mount for a Deans Connector and no way in hell I am paying $10 for one and having to wait for it as well :palm:

So Rolled my own. I really need a slimline one  for a particular job so a custom was needed really. It is something I had sort of been going to do for some time. Stupid thing had to be measured in both fractional and decimal thousand of an inch before I modelled it :palm:

Plan will be scuff up both bits and a little Epoxy for grip and hold.

Nice work!!!

What do you use for the electrical connections and what filament is good for this kind of application?

Best,
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 13, 2021, 02:37:50 pm
Stock R/C connector good for around 60A is the base components. There is also plenty of junk copies out there but 'some' are sort of ok if you have to. The pin alignment on some of the clones is terrible (really stiff) and the gold plating is trash unlike the real deal.

(https://www.batteryspace.com/ProductImages/adaptor/dean2.jpg)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 13, 2021, 03:12:41 pm
Fuck Deans' connecters with a shovel. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=876076;image)

Then set fire to all of 'em and use the shovel to bury 'em. The only thing I'll use 'em on is my floor sweeper, and that only because recycling them saves decent connectors for real work. I will never have a unshrouded connector on any of my RC craft ever again. :rant:

No, seriously... good design work, but I have misgivings, as I know these connectors intimately, and I know their weaknesses.  :palm:

Even if your caps only have 1mm over the part, that's 2mm of contact area taken away from a connector that has always been sub-par. I would also be concerned that there will not be adequate pin engagement to prevent fall-apart, something I know from personal experience that these things are prone to do under the best of circumstances.  |O

You can get AMASS XT60s next day from Amazon over here for ~$20/10 pairs; these are known decent quality and they come in bulkhead and PCB mount varieties now. I know you hate Amazon, but they have the right thing at a sane price, so...  :-//

mnem
Friends don't let friends use Deans'.   (https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/nah.gif)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 13, 2021, 03:31:16 pm
Boring Mundane Everyday Interesting Fun Project Print #789: Dual Kobalt Drill Battery Clip for eBike

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1227435;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1227437;image)      (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1227439;image)   

Those bits came for my fatBike, so I'm back to work on it. I rebuilt the rear wheel with proper CNC aluminum spacers for the brake rotor to get rid of the printed mockup part, and a extra-long axle so I could bolt the original kickstand back on it. Now that's done, it was time to make up a proper battery holder; since my trials with a single 24V Kobalt Drill Battery with wires gaffer-taped in place went so well, I decided to make the actual battery clip so it could hold 2 in parallel for twice the joy. ;)

I downloaded the original design from Thingiverse: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4331642 but didn't feel like going through the hassle of converting to work with it in Frustion360, so to make the thing a bit thinner, I just moved the X axis -8mm such that the bottom 8mm of the part was "submerged" below the build area. This forced Cura to start the slice at that point, making the stack 16mm thinner. :-+

I originally thought to "merge" the two parts in Cura as I'd done with my 18650 cell holders; then I realized that A) this would mean lots of unsupported intricate areas on the bottom clip, and 2) it meant a looooooong print with pretty low chance of success. (https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/nah.gif)

However, by printing each clip as a single piece, I got high chance of success as there are few unsupported areas, and in this orientation they present well to the layer fan for bridging. Also, I can run both printers and cut total time in half... tho I did wind up with one glossy and one satin finish part. meh. :-//

Once the wiring was done, I then glued the two pieces together with CA; doing it this way allowed me to use the natural shape of the part to keep wires nice & tidy. Those screwed on covers do hide a multitude of sins however; there's some ugly soldering and because I'm not using the same connector blades it was designed for, I had to melt the connectors in place.  meh and a half.  :-// :-//

All in all, I'm quite happy with the result; it is not exactly pretty, but will function exactly as intended.   8)

Printed on my CReality CR-6SE in XINGTONG ZHI LIAN Brand Black PLA, and my Diggro Alpha3 3D in FLASHFORGE Brand BLACK PLA; 0.28LH, 60mm/s, 200°C/60°C Bed, no adhesion, no supports, infill set manually to 2mm grid, 1.2mm top/bottom/wall thickness, with combing & bridging mode enabled and part rotated to benefit bridging. Total time:5.2 Printer Hours

mnem
*zoom-zoom*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 13, 2021, 03:51:28 pm
Fuck Deans' connecters with a shovel. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=876076;image)

Then set fire to all of 'em and use the shovel to bury 'em. The only thing I'll use 'em on is my floor sweeper, and that only because recycling them saves decent connectors for real work. I will never have a unshrouded connector on any of my RC craft ever again. :rant:

No, seriously... good design work, but I have misgivings, as I know these connectors intimately, and I know their weaknesses.  :palm:

Even if your caps only have 1mm over the part, that's 2mm of contact area taken away from a connector that has always been sub-par. I would also be concerned that there will not be adequate pin engagement to prevent fall-apart, something I know from personal experience that these things are prone to do under the best of circumstances.  |O

You can get AMASS XT60s next day from Amazon over here for ~$20/10 pairs; these are known decent quality and they come in bulkhead and PCB mount varieties now. I know you hate Amazon, but they have the right thing at a sane price, so...  :-//

mnem
Friends don't let friends use Deans'.   (https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/nah.gif)

 :bullshit: I have 20 years plus of use of Deans connectors and dozens in use. I am yet to have one fail or cause issue. Apart from my big Helis which run 6mm bullets and the small stuff they are what I am invested in.

AMASS / ST's were not even a glimmer when I started flying Electrics and I see ZERO resaon to change.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on June 13, 2021, 04:18:33 pm
From my point of view the only "valid" complaints against Dean connectors are:

1. They are un-shrouded.  You can imagine cases where this could cause a problem, but only a tiny bit of care solves the problem.

2.  They can be quite difficult to disengage.  Hard to grip and significant removal force.  Never had one come close to falling apart.  This problem is worse on clones and extends to engagement. 

3.  Due to their popularity there are numerous inferior clones.  It can be difficult to assure that you are getting the real deal.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 13, 2021, 04:30:29 pm
They're crap, their claims of lower contact resistance have been thoroughly debunked, and where it really counts, they just can't carry surge current like an XT60, which is why nobody runs them on any high-performance quadcopter: They starve the motors for current, and it wobbles and falls out of the sky.

Meanwhile, XT60s happily pass more than 200A of surge current,  XT90s even more. Deans' are maybe on a par with XT30s. :-//

Even on the entry-level 250-class acro quads, you can literally feel the difference just by changing connectors. I have proven this literally dozens of times in the pits just by giving people a set for free.

No, Deans' are and always have been over-hyped shit. The original ones were fucking plated steel shit. :palm: So are the claims that all the crap ones are cheap knockoffs.

I used to swear by Deans' ; now I swear at them.

Just like when Anderson bought out SERMOS industrial connectors, and renamed them PowerPoles and they suddenly cost 10x more.  ::)

mnem
"Invested" is a poor excuse. ;)


Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 13, 2021, 04:56:47 pm
At a rough guess I have been using Deans since the early 90's. Most of my airframes run BEC and no issues caused by poor connections and the genuine Deans are smooth to insert and unplug unlike most of the clones.

Deans were never "overhyped shit" we tested 4mm bullets (short and long), 6mm Bullets (stubby), Deans, Sermos and a few others. This was all done prior to the mid 90's F5 World Championships in Oz where I was involved and flew in a couple of lead up events.

The 4mm short bullets which are more or less what the XT's are with a case are better and we used them on the F5B and D packs at the time and soldered them straight on the cells which were end soldered into sticks. There was no shrouded options at that time and for ease of use and safety in handling the Deans were the easy choice.

There is simply Zero need or technical reason to change so skip the rants and heaping of shit !
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on June 13, 2021, 06:14:27 pm
They're crap, their claims of lower contact resistance have been thoroughly debunked, and where it really counts, they just can't carry surge current like an XT60, which is why nobody runs them on any high-performance quadcopter: They starve the motors for current, and it wobbles and falls out of the sky.

Meanwhile, XT60s happily pass more than 200A of surge current,  XT90s even more. Deans' are maybe on a par with XT30s. :-//

Even on the entry-level 250-class acro quads, you can literally feel the difference just by changing connectors. I have proven this literally dozens of times in the pits just by giving people a set for free.

No, Deans' are and always have been over-hyped shit. The original ones were fucking plated steel shit. :palm: So are the claims that all the crap ones are cheap knockoffs.

I used to swear by Deans' ; now I swear at them.

Just like when Anderson bought out SERMOS industrial connectors, and renamed them PowerPoles and they suddenly cost 10x more.  ::)

mnem
"Invested" is a poor excuse. ;)

A lot of this is experiential.  Sounds like an audio forum describing the depth and intense feeling of sound.  Any measured data to back it up? 

I am at least stating that I have an opinion.  The only data I have is experience.  So we are both re-enacting the audiophool style.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 13, 2021, 06:20:29 pm
What bean is talking aboot is a completely different animal; current demands were much less as we didn't have ESCs that could pass the high surge currents a modern multirotor ESC can. Steady current draw was high, but surge current is another thing altogether. In helis and planks, you have inertia on your side. With acro and race quads, you are fighting inertia every millisecond.

EDIT:
And yes, being starved for current for a few milliseconds can make a noticeable difference in an acro quad; it's not just your reflexes that matter here, but those of the processor in the flight controller. It does have reaction times that fast, and if the voltage sags instead of pushing a fast change in multiple ESCs at once, that turns into oscillation in one or more PID loops which ultimately becomes a wobble the eye can see, and lag in response you can "feel" when flying FPV.
/EDIT

The difference is in the logs... and I had years of log files showing voltage sag and surge current differences between the two on my acro quads; which proved what my experience racing dirt oval made me suspect all along: Deans' don't perform like XT60. Period.

I'm done arguing... Like I said; I used to swear by Deans', now I swear at 'em. They're a blight on RC.

mnem
Just say "No, thank you."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Monkeh on June 13, 2021, 09:07:11 pm
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 13, 2021, 11:48:00 pm
What bean is talking aboot is a completely different animal; current demands were much less as we didn't have ESCs that could pass the high surge currents a modern multirotor ESC can. Steady current draw was high, but surge current is another thing altogether. In helis and planks, you have inertia on your side. With acro and race quads, you are fighting inertia every millisecond.

Circa Mid 90's we were using the first of the Brushless motors from Aveox and Pletenburg and pulling 2000W plus from the NiMH packs for F5B/D which is why we tested the available connectors, best AVAILABLE option here was 4mm bullets. Electric Helis were just about unseen due to flight times from the battery technology. With the battery limitations of the time local non F5 contest classes were typically sub 80A draw on 7 cell packs so Deans were still a reasonable option but it was a mix of Deans and 4mm bullets.

You need to stop inflating what the needs of Quads are, the peak currents on my 3kg Electric Helis with 6S 5000's doing Acros will dwarf the typical 800g Quad loads let alone those running 5kg 12S 5000's. Fairly 'normal' to see XT90's or 6mm bulets here.

Current F5B 'Gliders' are running circa 3-5 second bursts at about 3000W. SPACE is why they don't generally use XT's the plastic shroud and wire lead in and out, you need a shoehorn to get the packs in. There is simply no one shoe fits all!

Quote
EDIT:
And yes, being starved for current for a few milliseconds can make a noticeable difference in an acro quad; it's not just your reflexes that matter here, but those of the processor in the flight controller. It does have reaction times that fast, and if the voltage sags instead of pushing a fast change in multiple ESCs at once, that turns into oscillation in one or more PID loops which ultimately becomes a wobble the eye can see, and lag in response you can "feel" when flying FPV.
/EDIT

The difference is in the logs... and I had years of log files showing voltage sag and surge current differences between the two on my acro quads; which proved what my experience racing dirt oval made me suspect all along: Deans' don't perform like XT60. Period.

I'm done arguing... Like I said; I used to swear by Deans', now I swear at 'em. They're a blight on RC.

mnem
Just say "No, thank you."

You are completely WRONG on this! Raving and heaping more generalized sweeping and emotively written  :bullshit: with no foundation about Deans Connectors while considering only one narrow use case while making a definitive 'demand' for non use is DUMB. Use of the 'appropriate' connector that delivers extreme reliability is what is important and has ZERO to do with brand A or B!

And while I am at it using a fairly basic spade type connector on your e-bike while preaching XT supremacy is kind of 'interesting'  >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Microdoser on June 14, 2021, 09:54:49 pm
:popcorn:

 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on June 15, 2021, 02:53:54 am
:popcorn:

 :popcorn:

 :popcorn:


(Sorry, I couldn't help myself)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 15, 2021, 04:20:20 am
:popcorn:

 :popcorn:

 :popcorn:

(Sorry, I couldn't help myself)

Nothing to Eat here you bunch of pervs  >:D

Sort of related to a video on making timing belts back a bit but more for calculating and making models of Racks and Pinions but I included a Belt designer too. I have tweaked the Parameter to create a GT3 version so just change the static dimensions should be fine for other belt geometries.

Suggested use is only use it to generate the base plain components then use the insert derive functionality to bring it into another project at the required size/tooth count THEN SEVER THAT LINK or your new model will update to this one in the current tooth count! So keep this as a master gear/belt/rack creator. https://a360.co/357uhVM Then in your main model add holes bosses and cheeks or tweak as needed.

Only modify the circled Parameters as needed to generate the models. It is possible that some of the models Tangencies will break when you change Parameters so you might need to retweak Sketch Ones Seven Tangent constraints (remove then redo if needed) to look like the attachment below for reference.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 15, 2021, 02:50:45 pm
What bean is talking aboot is a completely different animal; current demands were much less as we didn't have ESCs that could pass the high surge currents a modern multirotor ESC can. Steady current draw was high, but surge current is another thing altogether. In helis and planks, you have inertia on your side. With acro and race quads, you are fighting inertia every millisecond.

Circa Mid 90's we were using the first of the Brushless motors from Aveox and Pletenburg and pulling 2000W plus from the NiMH packs for F5B/D which is why we tested the available connectors, best AVAILABLE option here was 4mm bullets. Electric Helis were just about unseen due to flight times from the battery technology. With the battery limitations of the time local non F5 contest classes were typically sub 80A draw on 7 cell packs so Deans were still a reasonable option but it was a mix of Deans and 4mm bullets.

You need to stop inflating what the needs of Quads are, the peak currents on my 3kg Electric Helis with 6S 5000's doing Acros will dwarf the typical 800g Quad loads let alone those running 5kg 12S 5000's. Fairly 'normal' to see XT90's or 6mm bulets here.

Current F5B 'Gliders' are running circa 3-5 second bursts at about 3000W. SPACE is why they don't generally use XT's the plastic shroud and wire lead in and out, you need a shoehorn to get the packs in. There is simply no one shoe fits all!

Quote
EDIT:
And yes, being starved for current for a few milliseconds can make a noticeable difference in an acro quad; it's not just your reflexes that matter here, but those of the processor in the flight controller. It does have reaction times that fast, and if the voltage sags instead of pushing a fast change in multiple ESCs at once, that turns into oscillation in one or more PID loops which ultimately becomes a wobble the eye can see, and lag in response you can "feel" when flying FPV.
/EDIT

The difference is in the logs... and I had years of log files showing voltage sag and surge current differences between the two on my acro quads; which proved what my experience racing dirt oval made me suspect all along: Deans' don't perform like XT60. Period.

I'm done arguing... Like I said; I used to swear by Deans', now I swear at 'em. They're a blight on RC.

mnem
Just say "No, thank you."

You are completely WRONG on this! Raving and heaping more generalized sweeping and emotively written  :bullshit: with no foundation about Deans Connectors while considering only one narrow use case while making a definitive 'demand' for non use is DUMB. Use of the 'appropriate' connector that delivers extreme reliability is what is important and has ZERO to do with brand A or B!

And while I am at it using a fairly basic spade type connector on your e-bike while preaching XT supremacy is kind of 'interesting'  >:D

All you show here is what you don't know, bean. I've been through this over and over with non-acro/non-race flyers, and you just don't WANT to understand. That's fine.

What I can tell you is, if you go to any event/park/model airfield where they're actually racing quads with Deans' on your rig, they'll literally laugh you out of the pits. Same with acro flyers.

You seem to think I know nothing of Helis... they were what I flew before I got into quadcopters. And no, you have no idea how those have evolved since you used to fly, either; it is obvious. ::)

Today's multirotor aircraft are doing amazing things... and they are doing it because the amount of instantaneous current they can pass through the power system has evolved non-linearly over the last decade. Literally an order of magnitude greater than what you are familiar with.

YOU are the one who's wrong here, bean. I literally don't have enough time to fully educate you either... this is more than a decade's worth of knowledge earned the hard way working with the people who make the damned things. If you actually bother to dig deep into it and educate yourself, you'll find out that what I'm talking aboot is common knowledge among those who do race and fly acro quads.

Just like the disagreement I had with C aboot how these ESCs actually work; these are not just a simple H-bridge speed controller operating with fixed timing anymore.  ::) They are much more complex than any ESC you ever used on any plank or Heli you ever flew, and they literally cannot fly the way they do with the kind of ESC you are familiar with. Those are just plain too slow, too stupid, and cannot pass enough current fast enough to do the job.

All the really cool innovation in RC over the last few generations has been driven by the demands of these craft; the sophisticated telemetry, ultra-low latency RC protocols becoming the new minimum standard, HD FPV and HUD, even process control based on the input from that telemetry... it is all trickle-down from the boom in FPV multirotors.

As for the spade connectors... who fucking cares...? This is not a electric motorcycle; this is a 250W booster motor with VERY low demand. It draws a 2AH drill battery down in ~15-20 minutes; and that is a 4-5 yr old pack that is nowhere near optimum anymore. I'll let you do the math. :palm:

The spade connectors, BTW, are what come in the kit; they are clearly adequate for the load this kit is intended to handle. I just recycled them as they work very well with the connectors in the battery itself. The OEM main wiring is 14ga, which is why the jumpers wired to the 2nd pack are 16ga; there is no need for more.

EDIT:
Okay; that all does sound a bit condescending... and maybe there is a bit of that tone. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be that way. Just... how would you feel if I told you everything you know and have learned the hard way aboot making coffee is wrong, irrelevant or BS just because you cannot distill it down into a few sound-byte-sized sentences...? You get tired of having to argue stuff that you know is right and had to learn yourself the hard way with people who just won't admit that what they already know does not apply here.

I've many times conceded that you know a whole lot more aboot the science and art of how to make somebody a good cup of coffee... mostly our differences arise from A) I just can't be arsed to roast & grind every pot fresh and 2) I grew up on ranch coffee, and as a result any coffee that hasn't been "fully cooked" doesn't taste right to me.

That last point, BTW, is a disagreement that has been argued back and forth in countless forums over the internet over the years; it is a discussion I've seen and been part of at least a dozen times going back to useNet days. :-//
/EDIT


mnem
*goes back to doing things that are actually interesting*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 15, 2021, 03:39:50 pm
All that aside... much of my hatred for Deans' has to do with having actually dealt with them directly as a distributor; their attitude towards small vendors was literally punitive, and they made claims to their resellers (which they expected you to propagate) that were obviously false to anyone with actual electronics knowledge.

That compounded with my own personal experiences as a racer at the same time has soured me on the brand, much the same way as Samsung's consumer electronics products.

Lets just call it irreconcilable differences. ;)

mnem
Yeah... like the fact I couldn't reconcile their marketing wank with Ohm's Law, for one... |O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 15, 2021, 04:12:14 pm
If you continue down the path of condescending and arrogant 'education' you don't have time for :wtf: As to experience yep we both have some and if you continue to try and make this a pissing contest - DONT because no one wins those!

XT's remain an 'option' where appropriate and not 'the only option' and they never will be something that you fail to remotely even consider it seems. If you attend any world championship F5B or D you generally wont see XT's in use they simply won't fit in the airframes. Use of small twisted lantern 4mm or 6mm bullets is what is used.

Going back to Deans and their use the bottom line is it Sucks for you to be WRONG. Deans work and are reliable for general use and since I started using them 25+ years ago I have had ZERO failures with them. No amount of multi paragraph rants from you will make this not so. Are they ok at 100Amps nope but I don't use them for the few Airframes I own in that class. Likewise they are not ok for my sub 8 oz indoor and micro gear either nor would XT's be.

Offering up old debates or really off topic strawman topics is to what end? None of this is even close to having any relevance and is now way way off the topic of 3D printing.

Yep I mentioned the spade connector for a reason it is like the use case for Deans not inappropriate and FIT FOR PURPOSE and works that is the bottom line.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 15, 2021, 08:05:02 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1125428;image)

Enough. My reasons for hating Deans' are legitimate and manifold; both because of the design and the way they did business with me.

Sure, there are still places where they can do little harm; my floor sweeper is one of them. Good place for 'em. I will still recommend that's where they all go, along with the company.

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=1089186;image)



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 16, 2021, 03:01:29 am
Quit with the condescending dismissive crap now it is NOT a technically valid point! The reply I penned last night was rewritten multiple times before I hit the button, I tried to play nice but your ongoing tone SUCKS and you are way way over the line!

Your clash with the company is of ZERO consequence and letting Ego intrude into a debate on an items technical merits it frankly pathetic.

As you want to continue a meritless argument shove it where the Sun doesn't shine  :--
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Brumby on June 16, 2021, 03:06:48 am
In all the noise, has it been established that we are talking about the SAME product?  Just because it's called the same, doesn't necessarily mean it IS the same.

For example, there are XLR connectors and there are XLR connectors.  Comparing one of these sourced from a budget manufacturer against one sourced from an aerospace certified manufacturer could end up with a similar, pointless debate.

As an objective exercise - do you each have a couple of examples you could send to the other party for comparison?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 16, 2021, 03:38:10 am
In all the noise, has it been established that we are talking about the SAME product?  Just because it's called the same, doesn't necessarily mean it IS the same.

For example, there are XLR connectors and there are XLR connectors.  Comparing one of these sourced from a budget manufacturer against one sourced from an aerospace certified manufacturer could end up with a similar, pointless debate.

As an objective exercise - do you each have a couple of examples you could send to the other party for comparison?

When it comes to WS Deans and Co there is only one standard http://www.wsdeans.com/products/plugs/ultra_plug.html (http://www.wsdeans.com/products/plugs/ultra_plug.html) The cloned product was always hit or miss and the Australian importer I was buying Genuine Deans from had also sourced an 'ok' clone from China. I stocked that Clone along with the real thing as part of the R/C sideline to my Kite Business and anyone going cheap was given appropriate caution as to overloading them and the fit. I also brought in some other samples direct from China that finished up in the Bin they were so bad.

The simple reality of the 'average' R/C electric flying is done below 30Amps and generally 2-3S Lipos so even the better clones were fine - just. The average 'Park Flyer' would run around 10Amps and even the Aerobatic ones under 20 in most cases even my favourite 100MPH hunk of foam ran 22-23Amps on the ground on 3S.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 16, 2021, 05:09:22 am
Nope, not gonna drag me back into it. You were the one who said it didn't belong here, and that's right, so please stop trying to drag me back in.

mnem
*toddles off to ded*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Nominal Animal on June 16, 2021, 07:17:32 am
Dudes.  Your experiences differ.  You are also pretty much at opposite ends of the world.
The only reason you disagree so strongly is because you care about the experience/opinion of each other; if you didn't, you wouldn't care.

Now hug it out, and get back to the topic. :-*

Kidding aside, I don't even see a contradiction in your experiences, as the use cases differ enough to explain the different experiences.
Critical stuff like vibration patterns are completely different in your use cases.  Not to mention what Brumby wrote, too.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 17, 2021, 02:53:18 am
Just downloaded for a perv  8)

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 18, 2021, 03:01:07 pm
Another Fun Project: Print #790 Servo Saver Hub & Servo Mount

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1228919;image)   https://a360.co/35zf0Nv (https://a360.co/35zf0Nv)

So the slow boat from China finally surrendered my latest order from TomTop; a FS-GT3B 3-Ch surface transmitter (https://www.tomtop.com/p-rm319.html) and the rest of the bits & bobs to convert my WLToys 4WD RC Truggy to fully "Hobby Grade" electronics with separate RX, ESC, and normal 3-Wire steering servo. I have one of these in the trailer held hostage against the Canadian Bureaucracy; someday I'll see it again...  :-\ These are one of the best non-telemetry RC transmitters ever made; easily modded to ball-bearing action, and if you're not afraid of a little JTAG action, it can be reflashed with one of the best-developed alt firmwares (https://github.com/semerad/gt3b) out there. :-+

This car uses a bit of a oddball slim servo; nothing available on Amazon is a direct fit, and most standard size servos won't even fit between the base uprights, so I ordered the closest TomTop had which happened to be also metal gears for a whopping $4. I figured worst case, I'd use the controller PCB to convert the stock 5-wire servo to a proper 3-wire signal. When it got here, I was actually quite impressed with the strength and speed of the servo, and build quality appeared very good as well, with even hybrid brass/steel gears in the last 2 gear stages.
However... (there's always a however (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1021934;image)) it wouldn't quite fit in the original servo mount, and even as close as it would go with ghetto-fab mounting, the geometry was wrong to fit the OEM fixed-length steering links. Oh, and it has an oddball 21-spline output shaft, which is probably why it was on sale for only $4, so no go on the servo-saver.

I fiddled and futzed around with the regular servo horns that came with, but even they refused to cooperate... so finally, I gave up and decided to take the time to design and print these parts. The servo mount was pretty straightforward; just direct measurement to make the correct offset so the servo hub is in the same location as stock.  :-+

The servo saver hub was actually a lot easier than I thought it would be though; all concentric circles, and I was able to keep them in order in my head for the pushes & pulls to make the shape as needed, and I was able to make the base flange a little extra thick so more meat around the output shaft area.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1228921;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1228944;image)    (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1228923;image) 

This was the output of my CR6-SE at 0.12LH with 0.2mm nozzle; the precision on both outer and inner dimensions (even holes, which I've always had to fiddle around with the get anything even close to an exact diameter) is effing amazing.  :-+

I guesstimated on the necessary diameter of the hub opening and got it right the first try; I dismantled the servo and took the output gear, then after screwing an extra-long m2 screw through the hub as a pilot, I was able to press the brass shaft into the printed hub with my soldering iron, melting the correct splines into the printed part for a perfect fit. This worked astonishingly well; a quick squirt with alcohol to make things cool quickly and the part slipped off snug but perfectly intact!

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1228925;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1228927;image)   

And here it is all assembled; I've packed the gearboxes with light PTFE grease, so now all that remains is to replace the axle hubs and drive hexes with the bling parts. And then do that again on my son's car.  :-DD

Hub Printed on my Creality CR-6SE in FLASHFORGE Brand BLACK PLA; 0.12LH, 0.2mm nozzle, 60mm/s, 200°C/60°C Bed, no adhesion, no supports, infill set manually to 1mm grid, 0.8mm top/bottom 1.2mm wall thickness, with combing & bridging mode enabled and part rotated to benefit bridging. Bracket printed same settings, only 0.20LH/0.4mm nozzle.

mnem
vroom-vroom!

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on June 27, 2021, 02:34:39 am
Use some heavy fast forward but interesting to see how the process is actual done from the raw ingredients to the end. Definitely no Electronics applications  ;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2xqnx0EwOk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s2xqnx0EwOk)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 29, 2021, 01:23:05 am
More Useful Stuph: 4x18650 Battery Box for Bicycle Headlamp

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1231368;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1231378;image) 
https://a360.co/3h3VOOI

I picked this headlamp up for the boi's bicycle a few weeks back; it was approx $4 more than the one I got for my fatBike (which had gone up considerably since my purchase), and came with the battery pack, a charger and even a headband so you could use it for spelunking or whatever.  :-//  But (there's always a butt :palm:) the stupid webbing pouch that came with it for the battery was simply abysmal. https://www.amazon.ca/gp/product/B07QQ4CCXJ/

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1231370;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1231372;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1231374;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1231376;image)

So I designed this and printed it up; the main box has brass melt-set threaded inserts for the m3 clamping screws, and the battery pack is potted into the lid with clear silicone sealant so the whole thing slips in & out of the box for recharging just like the little one in my fatBike. It works a treat and my son was very thankful for the switch, as having to unplug the battery due to the pilot LEDs on the headlight was a bit of a PITA.

Main body of box printed on my Creality CR-6SE in FLASHFORGE Brand BLACK PLA; 0.28LH, 0.4mm nozzle, 60mm/s, 200°C/60°C Bed, no adhesion, no supports, infill set manually to 1mm grid, 0.8mm top/bottom 1.2mm wall thickness, with combing & bridging mode enabled and part rotated to benefit bridging. Cover printed on my Diggro Alpha 3 same filament/settings, only 0.20LH/0.4mm nozzle.

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Canis Dirus Leidy on July 07, 2021, 08:12:58 pm
Note to retro-computing fans. How to make a make a new monoblock case for modern clone of old home computer:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGdbD257v-I (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CGdbD257v-I)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 08, 2021, 09:17:14 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1234301;image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1234591;image)

Fitted the final piece of a lightsaber build with my son last night; I needed to add a 5.5mm charge port, but had to support it somehow while still having it slightly recessed in the handle.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1234589;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1234587;image)   https://a360.co/3xwzNOi

I ultimately contrived this little fiddly bit; the main body is exactly the right height to wedge snug inside the handle tube, and the little ear fits on the same screw as the rearmost brass standoff on the lightsaber core to keep it in place. It holds the 5.5mm charge port with a single set screw hot-threaded into the plastic boss; once that is loosened, the 5.5mm port can be pressed out the top and the little holder slides out the back along with the rest of the lightsaber core.

My son loves it, and the fact that together we were able to resurrect the lightsaber he killed so long ago. :-+

Printed on my Creality CR-6SE in FLASHFORGE Brand BLACK PLA; 0.12LH, 0.2mm nozzle, 60mm/s, 200°C/60°C Bed, no adhesion, no supports, infill set manually to 1mm grid, 0.8mm top/bottom 1.2mm wall thickness, with combing & bridging mode enabled and part rotated to benefit bridging.

mnem
*waves hand dismissively* "These are not the CC LED Drivers you are looking for..."
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on July 10, 2021, 07:11:20 am
Well it's here and out of Beta. Not perfect but very useable to convert STL's to Solid bodies in a few clicks.

The Red body is the original Fusion model I created some time ago and the one in front is the imported STL I used to make these from. Follow the few steps in Kevin's tutorial and a few clicks later the STL is a solid body you can work on. Dimensionally the conversion on this fairly straightforward model is dead on accurate but I will have a play with something more complex over the next few days.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVGtG-UjlYg (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tVGtG-UjlYg)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: PlainName on July 10, 2021, 09:14:59 pm
Quote
a few clicks later the STL is a solid body you can work on

But it doesn't have the original component parts, right? That is, if you have a cylinder and placed a torus around it to form a lip, the stl conversion would be a single solid: a cylinder with a bulge around it.

Freecad will read the stl and let you do normal drawing things with it. (As will Turbocad, but the converted part is a big thing and very slow to manipulate.) But you can't change it in the way of, say, moving the lip a bit along (because it doesn't know it's a torus on a cylinder). Presumably Fusion hasn't found a magical way around that?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on July 10, 2021, 10:31:35 pm
Personally I would want to take whatever STL I was working on and get it into a solid body ASAP before manipulating it as STL's suck. Working on triangulated faces to approximate a solid body is always going to be a 'guess'. Then do your mods in the solid workspace/CAD and re export or convert it into a mesh again if needed.

However providing you have changes and mods captured in the timeline you can edit them later and create new face groups and remesh them to keep it better in order. Still running through some of the resources and it is pre coffee this end of the world https://help.autodesk.com/view/fusion360/ENU/courses/AP-C-MESH-MODELING
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 10, 2021, 11:52:20 pm
So... takeaway is "It's still made of suck, but better than a sharp stick in the eye..." ?

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on July 11, 2021, 02:46:43 am
Ok so 5000 triangles and some complex radii on swept surfaces breaks it or the STL needs repairing first. First Coffee of the day inhaled and still a WIP. Even in this state ripping a quick model from the broken conversion would still be way faster than starting from scratch with guessing the STL dimensions.

Might have found the culprit Straight cut geometry across a Continuous Radius.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on July 11, 2021, 04:19:44 am
So after some more playing and looking at a few different STL's I know are good seems it doesn't do well at curves on curves and it gets lost recreating them as CAD geometry. This bottle opener I modelled ages ago and STL came out of Fusion.

The continuous radius on the bottle opener gets broken part way around the conversion (jagged line across it on the 'sort of ok') but most of the conversion is fine and comes up at an accurate 2mm as per the original model but the broken sections are approximated to a curved surface with non ideal geometry. The Radius where the keyring goes is then more of a problem as it is a radius that breaks the curve of the part so a curve on a curve that is before you get to the angled rear face (hole is at an angle to it and then is a radius on a hole across a curve) causing the major breakage.

You could fix these broken bits in the surface modelling environment but I suspect it would be faster to use this converted but broken model as a ghost and recreate the model from scratch.

I think for fairly plain geometries without complex radii/curves it will be fine but still needs more work before it can cope well with
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on July 11, 2021, 04:55:46 am
Quote
a few clicks later the STL is a solid body you can work on

But it doesn't have the original component parts, right? That is, if you have a cylinder and placed a torus around it to form a lip, the stl conversion would be a single solid: a cylinder with a bulge around it.

Freecad will read the stl and let you do normal drawing things with it. (As will Turbocad, but the converted part is a big thing and very slow to manipulate.) But you can't change it in the way of, say, moving the lip a bit along (because it doesn't know it's a torus on a cylinder). Presumably Fusion hasn't found a magical way around that?

Just tried something similar to what you were describing simple shaft as a one piece and a two bit option (so a collar) both worked with no fuss and came out with correct dimensions. Same thing applies convert it to a solid first then do your tweaking.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: PlainName on July 11, 2021, 11:45:08 am
Sorry, not quite deciphered what you were saying! Did the part come out as two pieces, or did you convert to solid then manually separate them?
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on July 11, 2021, 11:58:44 am
Sorry, not quite deciphered what you were saying! Did the part come out as two pieces, or did you convert to solid then manually separate them?


I deliberately did it two ways when I ran up the model and exported both the single and two part option as one file then re imported it as shown. You can work with a mixed workspace of formats so I just left the initial solid model in place as a reference.

As to manual separation of mesh bodies you are really limited to simple planer cuts using offset planes. There is options to have the then split body remeshed across that split or you can leave it as an open body. Both shown below are from the single piece model.

The split shown below of the collar in two pieces came from the two part STL import so I was able to select and seal just that one part or both if needed.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: PlainName on July 11, 2021, 02:44:34 pm
OK. I am hard pushed to think of a use case for this, to be honest. If I have the stl then I probably have the original design files, which would be preferable to work with. If I don't have those then I would find it difficult to trust the stl (if, for instance, it was someone's 3D model of a part). Kind of like having gerbers or gcode - OK for running off the physical part, but not so hot for manipulating the design.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on July 11, 2021, 11:08:27 pm
One obvious use case is with cheap 3D scanners which output only stl format.  Accuracy of these scanners is good enough for many applications, particularly if key dimensions are measured by traditional means.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: PlainName on July 12, 2021, 01:14:09 am
Ah, that's a possibility, yes.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on July 12, 2021, 02:06:22 am
Take this random.

Creality sent me an STL a few years ago as one of my Enders arrived with a rubbish print covering the power supply. Just an example but say I wanted to fit an auxiliary switch to it for the lights.

Or you want to use the IEC mount and general layout for a different PS then punch the now solid model to suit using the rest of it.

Take the STL convert it to a solid with a few clicks align the switch to be used and use in with a combine body command to cut a hole. Export back out as an STL. Under 10 steps and 5 minutes work and it's done.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: PlainName on July 12, 2021, 11:54:19 am
That's a reasonable use case.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 14, 2021, 03:51:29 pm
OK. I am hard pushed to think of a use case for this, to be honest. If I have the stl then I probably have the original design files, which would be preferable to work with. If I don't have those then I would find it difficult to trust the stl (if, for instance, it was someone's 3D model of a part). Kind of like having gerbers or gcode - OK for running off the physical part, but not so hot for manipulating the design.

The obvious use case is pretty much anything downloaded from Thingiverse, et al that is "almost exactly what you need, but needs a little tweak"...

In other words, pretty much anything downloaded from Thingiverse, et al... because 94% of the stuff out there is posted by well-intentioned ding-dongs (like me, for example ;)) who just got it close enough they could use the finished product then posted it (almost always in .stl format and nothing else) and wandered off to live their lives...  :-DD

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 14, 2021, 04:31:49 pm
Boring Mundane Everyday Print #199: Bicycle Wheel Spoke Protector Disc   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1236219;image)   https://a360.co/3ejgIr8

This is for my spare bike; an older 700C-sized "unisex step-through frame" Road/MTB made by CCM. The cheap freewheel on it crunched up the ratchet, so I'm swapping over a Shimano freewheel from the parts mule bike.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1236221;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1236223;image)

This actually is the better of the two spoke discs; the other literally disintegrated into powder and chips just from handling the gear cluster. :o I already spent more than I wanted to on the tool set to swap the freewheel over (a whopping US$17!!! ;)), so cost + hassle factor and drive to get one locally made me give this a try so I can put the damned thing together instead of waiting on the slow boat from China.

Designed this yesterday; on Rev1 the dish was a bit too deep so now working on Rev2. Flange at center hole under the freewheel/cluster gear is a little extra thick to allow adjustment by slicing off layers to exact shim thickness needed to allow clearance for chain without interfering with gear cluster. At Less than a buck a copy worth of filament, I can afford a 2nd attempt. >:D

This one will test your printer tune... there is a lot of covalent area on the support region and the part is thin (1.5mm); if you are over-extruding or your layer adhesion is poor, you'll play hell separating the support without breaking the part. Probably would be better made of PETG or ABS, particularly for sun/UV resistance; but I have PLA on hand and it's what I have dialed in pretty well on my printer, so that's what I'm using.

Printed on my CReality CR-6SE in XINGTONG ZHI LIAN Brand Black PLA, 0.28LH, 60mm/s, 200°C/60°C Bed, no adhesion, Supports enabled/touching buildplate otherwise all Cura defaults, infill set manually to 2mm grid, 0.8mm top/bottom, 1.2mm wall thickness, with combing & bridging mode enabled and part rotated to benefit bridging. Total time: 6.8 Hours

mnem
And yes, I will post this on Thingiverse... in .STL and nothing else.  >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on July 15, 2021, 02:25:03 am
That's a reasonable use case.

A bit more learning and a useful video later.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tMEtHIJV6c (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3tMEtHIJV6c)

Same Random Ender Power Supply cover but this time never converted from an STL to a solid. Insert derive the switch (solid model) then convert it using the 'tessellate' function to turn it into a mesh. Then use the combine bodies command in the mesh workspace to cut the hole in the unmodified mesh from Creality.

It is less steps than converting the earlier option and potentially a good approach for simple mods. So what you would do is create in the solid space (or insert like I did) your cutting tools then tessellate them into mesh bodies then combine them so join, cut etc as required.

Anything beyond simple holes or additions I would still be converting the STL into a solid body first.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 15, 2021, 04:44:08 pm
Boring Mundane Everyday Print #199: Bicycle Wheel Spoke Protector Disc   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1236219;image)   https://a360.co/3ejgIr8
(SNIP)
mnem
And yes, I will post this on Thingiverse... in .STL and nothing else.  >:D

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1236509;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1236511;image)

3DP Fail...?

So... Rev2 was an abject fail; decreasing the chamfer of the dish made things worse, not better. Turns out I was not reproducing the "bubble" around the center where the spokes join the hub, and that was holding the entire thing up against the back of the freewheel/clustergear.  :o

Frustionated, and feeling that 14 hours of print time was enough to spend on the project, I took advantage of the fact I was working with a thermoplastic and worked on Rev1 with my cheap hot air gun, then reformed it around the hub/spoke area with my hands while spinning it on the hub.

Add a 2mm spacer under the clustergear and Voilips!!! a near-perfect fit, and spin-test shows only tiniest bit of wibbly-wobbly going on. As the end-result was pretty much exactly what I had in mind when I first started, I have no interest in spending any more time on this... but I can't in good conscience put this model up for anyone else to use.  :-//

mnem
 :popcorn:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 15, 2021, 07:49:40 pm
Boring Mundane Everyday Print #200: Bicycle Chainring Guard   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1236552;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1236550;image)   

https://a360.co/3wIQLYg

This is also for my spare bike; an older 700C-sized "unisex step-through frame" Road/MTB made by CCM. Hopefully, the last item I need to call it 100%. This part goes on the chainring like so; supposed to keep you from getting your legs gouged on the chainring and keep your pantsleg out of the sprocket. Like the spoke disc; a cheap plastic part if ordered from China, but a PITA and a long wait for the slow boat, or quite expensive locally. Aboot $2 worth of filament on this one; hopefully only 1 copy will be needed.

Printed on my CReality CR-6SE in FlashForge Brand Blue PLA, 0.28LH, 50mm/s, 200°C/60°C Bed, no adhesion, Supports enabled/touching buildplate, infill set manually to 2mm grid, 1.2mm wall/top/bottom thickness, with combing & bridging mode enabled and part rotated to benefit bridging; otherwise all Cura defaults. Total time: 10.8 Hours

mnem
moo. or don't; it's completely up to you.  >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 16, 2021, 06:52:20 pm
Boring Mundane Everyday Print #200: Bicycle Chainring Guard Part 2   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1236762;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1236764;image)   

Here's the part straight off the printer; the supports stuck better than the part due to small feet, and everything came away just this clean. The top side looks even better; while prepping it this way did add ~2.5 hours to the print, obviously it does make a big difference in the top surface. :-+

The first pic is actually closer to the real color; it is much darker than it appears in these photos, and matches the color of the bike itself to within a shade or two.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1236766;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1236768;image) 

Here we are with the part on the bike; even using the original screws. You'd think this was made for the bike or something.  :-DD

Designing this part was actually less hassle than the spoke protector disc; either I'm getting better at Frustion360 or the work lent itself to the way I think aboot making stuff.  :-//

The only real hassle was figuring out what the bolt circle actually is; fortunately, there's a website right here with both the maths needed and a handy chart:   https://owlcation.com/stem/How-to-Calculate-Bolt-Circle-Diameter


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1236770;image)

This is the dream (when it works ;)) of 3DP fulfilled; need a part, make a part. I've spent aboot CAD$30 fixing this old bike up so it could be ridden; the repair parts made for it saved me aboot $25.

Being able to make the battery pack for the headlight (the black thing on the side of the handlebar stem) saved me another $25 over anything even remotely comparable in quality, plus it allowed me to add a switch where even on the "premium" model one had to unplug the wire every time you quit. ::)

mnem
ride.  >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Canis Dirus Leidy on July 19, 2021, 02:21:29 am
Homemade filament made of old polycarbonate lampshades:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp68UPts9Kc (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vp68UPts9Kc)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 01, 2021, 04:34:00 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1241085;image)   https://a360.co/3yoCRfS

This is probably my most time-consuming 3DP project yet; completely reworking the guts of my UltraSabers lightsaber to fix all the cut corners it came with, and upgrade to 18650 power source with BMS and charging circuit. Original Obsidian e-gyro controller only does sound and lighting effects and used 14500 cells in a battery holder.  ::)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1241097;image)

First up was several iterations before I came up with a workable design for the battery pack. Ultimately I went with a split assembly as this allowed me to completely encapsulate the 18650 cells & BMS PCB. Cells are staggered to allow as much room as possible for wiring from one end of the hilt to the other.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1241099;image)

Here I've bonded the Obsidian controller PCB to the battery pack with a blob of good ol' silly-cone RTV sealant. This is roughly how it will reside in the hilt; the space behind the pack is where the LED ballast PCB and speaker go. The space forward of it are where the power switch and emitter module go.

There's a space of aboot 50mm right in the middle which is all the space available for the switch and excess wiring to scrunch up when this is assembled. This problem is a major part of why it took several days of tinkering in my off-time to get everything figured out. :scared:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1240266;image)

In the middle of all this came some R&D work. I wanted to replace the original ballast resistors with some CC LED driver PCBs I found online; however after multiple test scenarios, they proved not durable enough mechanically or electrically for the abuse intended. I eventually abandoned this testing after smoking a couple LED emitters and half-dozen CC driver boards. I am toying with the idea of mixing up my own 3-ch CC LED driver PCB to fit in this space; I might follow through with that if I find a chipset that actually handles the abuse under testing. :-//

When I first got my saber, I changed the color to a deep royal purple to match my generally lawful neutral alignment; getting that requires mixing red & blue at drive current levels determined by trial/error. On top of that there is another channel for "flash on clash" functionality in the sound/light controller PCB, so I use all 3 elements in this one. As I had already done the headache work with the ballast resistors, ultimately I returned to that arrangement when the CC LED drivers proved inadequate.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1240319;image)

Here is the ballast PCB, LED emitter module and battery pack before adding the charge circuitry; I've covered the LED wires with Kapton tape to make it act as a ribbon cable, and to add a layer of protection against pinch damage. Yes, they are made of multi-strand Cat5 cable; I use what works, and it has the right mix of flex and just enough rigidity to push back into place rather than bunch up as the parts are assembled in the hilt.

One of these days I'll get this 10W LED emitter on the left working. These require a completely different emitter housing and collimator lens; also aboot 4x as much VA power source so will take a lot more finagling, and will absolutely require a working CC driver array to fit in a usable-sized hilt. Future plans... :o

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1241110;image)

Component density is pretty high for a fabricobbledy project. The sub-board plugs into the controller via a short pigtail of Dupont connectors...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1241087;image)

...and the LED channels are broken out into another row of Dupont connectors facing back towards the front of the hilt. There's a Schottky diode in there so that we don't have sparks if something shorts the charge port, and the ugly soldering is to ensure the heavy resistors are anchored to multiple vias in the perfboard so they stay put under heavy impact from mock combat. :-+

Before you ask, yes I've repaired the potting over that inductor with a fresh layer of epoxy. It's just not really visible here. ;)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1241089;image)

Here I've designed and printed the speaker bracket and the charge port; they go together in layer cake fashion...

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1241091;image)

...with the charge port poking up like a smokestack.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1241093;image)

Once I add the pommel ring, it looks a lot better. The battery, speaker and charge port layer cake required an additional 3mm clearance overall; I was able to gain that by printing up the random-looking spacer ring in the first pic. Once sealed up, the entire insides of the thing becomes a resonating chamber for the little speaker; the difference in sound is amazing once you tighten the pommel ring down. In this case, that perfboard PCB actually works in my favor.  ;D

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1241095;image)

And here's the money shot; this lightsaber has e-gyro controller with flash-on-clash, motion sound effects, fully-programmable sound library, 18650 power source with more than 2X the power density of original, and charge/BMS circuitry the original design never even thought of. As a bonus, it works perfectly with the 8.4V charger I already have for my bicycle headlight.

Printed on my CReality CR-6SE in XINGTONGZHILIAN Brand Black PLA, 0.16LH, 60mm/s, 200°C/60°C Bed, no adhesion, Supports enabled/touching buildplate, infill set manually to 1mm grid, 1.2mm wall/top/bottom thickness, with combing & bridging mode enabled and part rotated to benefit bridging; otherwise all Cura defaults. Total time: Fuck if I know... :o

mnem
And my son is more excited aboot it than I am... :-DD






Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 09, 2021, 05:15:32 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1242764;image)   https://a360.co/37CE8El   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1242733;image)

Today's Project: A23 Battery Holder Shell and Sleeve for Cheap RF Active Probe

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1242520;image)
Recently I purchased a cheap FET probe based on this article from ELEKTOR (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hi-z-probe-for-50-ohm-spectrum-analyzer/?action=dlattach;attach=1060862) and  discussed here on eevBlog (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/rf-microwave/response-of-cheap-rf-active-probe-from-ebay/25/); all the boring details of that adventure, with pics of the final product in use are in these threads:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3621622/#msg3621622

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3622871/#msg3622871 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/msg3622871/#msg3622871)

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hi-z-probe-for-50-ohm-spectrum-analyzer/msg3623444/#msg3623444 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/hi-z-probe-for-50-ohm-spectrum-analyzer/msg3623444/#msg3623444)


Thinking myself pretty clever, I contrived to design a shell for it which includes a holder for A23 car remote battery while it was on its way to me; however, testing once I had it in hand showed that the ~20mA current draw of the device does suck that battery down pretty quick.  :o

However, the probe is still quite usable with this battery, which is readily and cheaply available at Dollarama and Amazon, and the integrated design makes it mucho convenient for occasional use, especially with the outer sleeve to protect delicate pogo pins.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1242522;image)   https://www.ebay.com/itm/332393676082

I ordered from the above link for aboot $20 delivered; I bought the probe and a 300mm soldered-shield RG174 SMA cable recommended by the designer, 60dbm. The eBay listing still shows his old design, which is green PCB and does not have the gimmick cap as per the original Elektor article; this is what arrived.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1242530;image)

I figured that since I have no intention of ever putting this away with a battery in it, a switch was just an invitation to be stoopit and do so anyways; so decided to apply KISS principle and make popping the battery in/out super-easy. I thought I was quite clever when it popped right in and held in place with the (+) peg in a cup in the battery contact exactly as intended. The 3DP part is made with a matching indentation to make this possible.

Several iterations took me to the current design which revolves around an A23 cell; as part of that I added  this delicious emerald green LED which made a very usable gas gauge with considerable difference between ~7V (the VReg's cutout voltage) and 12.5V as measured on a brammy new battery. Additional current draw was only 100uA at 12.5V applied, right down to ~40uA at 6-7V. :-+

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1242532;image)

Adding it was dead-easy with a 0603 resistor and some creative soldering. :-+ Here you can also see how I leveraged the mass of the SMA connector to serve as anchor for the batt (-) spring.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1242534;image)

Here I've printed up the last parts and made a battery terminal to match; you can also see the little dimple I designed into the side of the shell as a window for the LED.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1242556;image)

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1242731;image)

And here it is in the storage sleeve.

ZIP package below includes both STL and .F3D files so you can you can conveniently print directly as-is or remix as needed.

This fits the new, blue version of this probe/PCB as shown above pretty snugly. PCB dimensions are 9mm W x 1.6mm thick exactly; approx 57mm long not including the SMA connector. I don't know if it will fit the old green version; the cutouts for that cap and diode in the battery compartment are specific to the blue one.

Printed on my CReality CR-6SE in FlashForge Brand Blue PLA, 0.16LH, 60mm/s, 200°C/60°C Bed, no adhesion, Supports enabled/touching buildplate, infill set manually to 1mm grid, 1.2mm wall/top/bottom thickness, with combing & bridging mode enabled and part rotated to benefit bridging; otherwise all Cura defaults.

Protection sleeve printed with 3mm BRIM adhesion as part was printed vertical orientation; supports enabled everywhere for battery compartment.  Body takes approx 25 min, inner cover approx 10 min, protection sleeve approx 2 hours.   


mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Kean on August 09, 2021, 05:44:37 pm
ZIP package below includes both STL and .F3D files so you can you can conveniently print directly as-is or remix as needed.

Thanks for posting that.  I asked a few hours ago in the Hi-Z probe thread if you could share the files.   :-+

I think mine may be the green version (purchased 2018), so I'll check and if needed modify and post an updated F3D (with your permission).
It won't happen in the next few days though, as I'm WFH (Sydney lockdown) and all my RF gear and 3D printers are at the office.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 09, 2021, 05:52:53 pm
No prob. Your request was why I posted both.

I'm still using the "Free Hobbyist License" version of Frustion360; I don't believe that allows any of the collaborative features to be turned on. Or at least, I haven't figured out how.  :-//

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Kean on August 09, 2021, 06:01:14 pm
I'm still using the "Free Hobbyist License" version of Frustion360; I don't believe that allows any of the collaborative features to be turned on. Or at least, I haven't figured out how.  :-//

OK, so when you choose the share public link option there is no option to allow downloads?
(As per attached image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 09, 2021, 07:38:05 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1243534;image)

Confirmed. Sub only.  :P

mnem
*cue embarrassing "wah-wah-wahhhh...!!!" sound now...*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 12, 2021, 04:40:55 pm
Boring Mundane Everyday Print #207: Tool Caddy Insert

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1244330;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1244332;image)   https://a360.co/3Az6xYf

Today's project is this little fitted insert to produce some semblance of order in my desktop tool catchall. This had a similar insert I printed aboot a year ago; it didn't self-support properly and eventually fell apart. Then I took my 6 most-used mini-drivers and put them in that bit of CNC aluminum and... well, time for a revisit.

Printing this one at 0.20LH to make the walls a little smoother; this will make it a 23 hour print. Should be done ~11AM tomorrow.

Printed on my CReality CR-6SE in FlashForge Brand Blue PLA, 0.20LH, 60mm/s, 200°C/60°C Bed, no adhesion, no supports, infill set manually to 2mm grid, .8mm wall/top/bottom thickness, with combing set to ALL, bridging mode enabled and part rotated to benefit bridging; otherwise all Cura defaults. Total time: 23 Hours.

mnem
it goes 'round and 'round and 'round and 'round... :o



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Canis Dirus Leidy on August 13, 2021, 09:45:07 pm
OK, Google. How to stop screaming? 3D printed 2.2 kW spindle mount for CNC3020 in action. (https://www.reddit.com/r/hobbycnc/comments/f2h068/22kw_spindle_on_the_3020/)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on August 14, 2021, 01:57:28 am
OK, Google. How to stop screaming? 3D printed 2.2 kW spindle mount for CNC3020 in action. (https://www.reddit.com/r/hobbycnc/comments/f2h068/22kw_spindle_on_the_3020/)

Well sort of ok when you read down the comments it is a prototype prior to making an Aluminium one. The stupid is really there is no tool that won't deflect or twist the frame of the 3020 into a pretzel that needs more than a few hundred watts before you get to how much deflection and acceleration issues you generate on the gantry with that lump.  :palm:
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 16, 2021, 11:41:03 pm
Yeah, this reminds me of a review I saw of a PCB CNC machine that was made out of laser-cut lauan plywood. No matter how good the software is, that was a master-class in being politic.  :-DD

I did the same "prototype it in plastic" thing on my e-Bike a few months ago:

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1220707;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1220709;image)

I used circular pattern in frustion360 today...

mnem
*rollin'...*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Canis Dirus Leidy on September 20, 2021, 03:51:38 am
Soldering wire dispenser with battery powered DC motor. Assembly video from author:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XzmDtJj-OI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XzmDtJj-OI)

Thingiverse page with STL files (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4968267).
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 21, 2021, 02:40:10 am
Not sure I am quite ready to abandon the sometimes painful STL's yet but for new designs it makes sense and it seems their days are numbered FINALLY :clap:

Fusion based but most of the points are relevant regardless of CAD package.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KSB38FYREo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KSB38FYREo)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: xrunner on September 21, 2021, 11:28:38 am
Not sure I am quite ready to abandon the sometimes painful STL's yet but for new designs it makes sense and it seems their days are numbered FINALLY :clap:

Fusion based but most of the points are relevant regardless of CAD package.

Thanks. I had heard of 3MF but if this is "the future" fine. I just opened F360, hadn't used it in a while so it updated itself. Expected save as .stl to be gone but it's still there. Not sure why the video title had "Save as STL is gone!" maybe it was just a phrase to draw in viewers.

However, I opened a previous design of mine, saved it as .3mf, and it opened in Cura OK (set down to the lower left corner but not a problem at all). Sliced and diced same as usual. So sure, why not transition over from now on? I do sometimes hack up a model in Tinkercad from an .stl, but there are converters out there to go back and forth. Onward into the future ...
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on September 21, 2021, 01:31:23 pm
Not sure I am quite ready to abandon the sometimes painful STL's yet but for new designs it makes sense and it seems their days are numbered FINALLY :clap:

Fusion based but most of the points are relevant regardless of CAD package.

Thanks. I had heard of 3MF but if this is "the future" fine. I just opened F360, hadn't used it in a while so it updated itself. Expected save as .stl to be gone but it's still there. Not sure why the video title had "Save as STL is gone!" maybe it was just a phrase to draw in viewers.

However, I opened a previous design of mine, saved it as .3mf, and it opened in Cura OK (set down to the lower left corner but not a problem at all). Sliced and diced same as usual. So sure, why not transition over from now on? I do sometimes hack up a model in Tinkercad from an .stl, but there are converters out there to go back and forth. Onward into the future ...

If you haven't used Fusion for a while then you want to look at the completely revamped Mesh space. This is a good start point https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/msg3604371/#msg3604371 (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/msg3604371/#msg3604371) and some discussion just after it and some examples.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 21, 2021, 05:07:04 pm
Meh. Sounds to me (as it is the product of a committee of 3DP corps) that is is more likely intended to ultimately serve as a container for some form of DRM once it has large adoption.

Don't care ATM... I've tried both formats and Cura doesn't seem to care either.  :-//

mnem
still Model T stage of development... :o
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on September 29, 2021, 02:39:41 pm
Boring Mundane Everyday Print #217: Screen Door Striker   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1285255;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1285507;image)

https://a360.co/39OL5TC

Just what it says; fixing the ripped screen and found I didn't have a striker for the front screen door, so it doesn't latch tight. A little measuring showed the usual ~13mm high strikers would barely catch, so designed this to fit exactly in the existing space so it butts up against the screen-door frame for strength. Took 20 minutes to get it designed and printing, including setting up the printer which was just sitting in the corner after the move. 2.2 hours and ~61¢ worth of filament.

Printed on my CReality CR-6SE in XINGTONG ZHI LIAN Brand Black PLA, 0.20LH, 60mm/s, 200°C/60°C Bed, no adhesion/supports, otherwise all Cura defaults, infill set manually to 1mm grid, 1.2mm top/bottom, 1.2mm wall thickness. Total print time: 2.2 Hours

mnem
*currently engaged in the battle of the front screen door*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 03, 2021, 07:49:21 am
Make a Coffee or open a beer and spend an hour learning some of the Basics of STLs and Meshes regardless of CAD software then some well explained how to's on the FUSION mesh space  :-+

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlbHz1rlppU (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MlbHz1rlppU)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 09, 2021, 07:41:52 pm
Boring Mundane Everyday Print #222: Latch Thingum for TV Wall Mount   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1293805;image)

Bought the cheapest TV wall mount I could find on Amazon; didn't realize the "safety lock" was a stoopit screw you're supposed to screw up under the bottom rail. :palm: Decided to make this to fit; bonus, it will make these mounts fit on the rail already mounted on the wall.

If I designed it right. :-DD

We'll see; I couldn't be arsed to model the mounting bracket this is going on, so I'm 100% flying by the seat of my pants here. :P

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1293811;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1293817;image)

Got the latch part right first try; the slider rod needed to be just a bit longer. Fortunately, that part only takes aboot 20 min to print.

Together, it works exactly as expected; a little pull loop of mechanic's wire and ready to go. Parts for the 2nd TV mount printing now.


Printed on my CReality CR-6SE in XINGTONG ZHI LIAN Brand Black PLA, 0.16LH, 60mm/s, 205°C/60°C Bed, no adhesion/supports, otherwise all Cura defaults, infill set manually to 1mm grid, 1.2mm top/bottom, 1.2mm wall thickness. Print time: 1.4 Hours per set; 2.7 hours total.

mnem
Yes, the wall is olive drab. Honestly, I don't mind it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on October 11, 2021, 02:33:05 am
And this is in part why Makerbot / Stratysys / Thingiverse are a mob of  :-X 's Completely petty  :bullshit:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPYb7msNN9Q&t=3935s (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VPYb7msNN9Q&t=3935s)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 13, 2021, 02:05:45 am
annnd I am back....

Finally my Ender5 is back up and running after the relocation to USA.

A few updates.... and gotchas....

remember this problem I had?

My cooler part fan sporadically does not work, it has nothing to do with the new fan installed.
I saw the problem also before.

well this is why (https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-SKR-mini-E3/issues/459)...
It drove me crazy for months... now it looks like it is fixed.... double finger crossed....
I had to deactivate the speaker function in Marlin....

If you design a part cooler fan holder.... like I did... see here (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4775568)... print TWO copies... so if one melts down (other story)... then you have a spare to continue to print.



Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 13, 2021, 02:28:29 am
BTW we made it... we are famous!

https://teachingtechyt.github.io/calibration.html#steppers (https://teachingtechyt.github.io/calibration.html#steppers)

in the middle of the page

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1296244;image)

link to here (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/msg3271034/#msg3271034)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 14, 2021, 09:49:50 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/?action=dlattach;attach=1298482;image)

I recently had a forum member ask aboot a 3DP part for the Datalogging IR Transceiver for the Fluke 87-IV/187/189; in response, I whipped up this quick little universal bracket to fit my Benchtop Meter Stand and updated my post in the Replacement Knobs, Feet and Fittings for Test Equipment thread. (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/msg3417422/#msg3417422) It provides a 30mm x 50mm flat plate one can use to attach either the OEM IR Module or your own homebrew module with double-faced foam mounting tape or adhesive-backed Velcro strips.

It is bundled together with the correct version of the meter stand in the zip file linked here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/replacement-knobs-feet-and-fittings-for-test-equipment/?action=dlattach;attach=1298407

For strength, both parts should be printed 0.20-0.16LH, laying flat on largest flat surface (back of Meter Stand, front face of IR Adapter bracket), and with infill set to yield a grid pattern with 1-1.5mm spacing. Both parts will print well with no supports.

Cheers!

mnem
*3DP-ily*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on October 15, 2021, 12:29:26 am
annnd I am back....

Finally my Ender5 is back up and running after the relocation to USA.

A few updates.... and gotchas....

remember this problem I had?

My cooler part fan sporadically does not work, it has nothing to do with the new fan installed.
I saw the problem also before.

well this is why (https://github.com/bigtreetech/BIGTREETECH-SKR-mini-E3/issues/459)...
It drove me crazy for months... now it looks like it is fixed.... double finger crossed....   I had to deactivate the speaker function in Marlin....

If you design a part cooler fan holder.... like I did... see here (https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4775568)... print TWO copies... so if one melts down (other story)... then you have a spare to continue to print.
Or a spare printer.  >:D   Huh... so you found a actual bug, ehhh? :-+

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1298611;image)

Nice; you designed your own 'fang. But uhhh... what are the two little rectangular nozzles side x side?

mnem
 :-/O
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Zucca on October 15, 2021, 01:24:40 am
Nice; you designed your own 'fang. But uhhh... what are the two little rectangular nozzles side x side?

mnem
 :-/O

hi mnem, honestly no idea. I tool one 'fang that I liked and fittted to my needs. It prints well PLA. Done for now.
Hoping that TPU will als obe no problem. I will cross the bridge once I'll see it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on November 12, 2021, 12:46:22 am
Another whole level of insanity to take your 3D printing further  :-+

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AaujAPghhE (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9AaujAPghhE)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: CatalinaWOW on November 12, 2021, 04:00:05 am
In my list is doing investment casts using 3D printed forms.  Hasn't made it into this years actual action.  That wall hook is a beautiful piece of work.  With quite a bit of emphasis on work.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: RoGeorge on November 14, 2021, 09:16:17 pm
A chicken egg is a 3D printer.   ;D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on November 15, 2021, 04:00:52 am
Contains Naked Naomi  :o

Depending on pricing per item it might make a lot of sense for me at least to not buy into a Resin printer with all the downsides of DIY mess muck and pong. Nothing I have FDM printed so far has needed more detail or a finer finish but it would open up the option if needed and there is a few jobs that have had to be split into parts to make it FDM printable.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONDiTeAO9CI (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONDiTeAO9CI)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on February 05, 2022, 06:55:38 pm
Boring Mundane Everyday Print #288: Keyboard Tilt Feet   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1401689;image)

Been using my Tevo Tornado since we landed stateside in Hartford, CT for all sorts of everyday prints. The latest was for this old HP keyboard stuck in the bottom of a bin forever since one of the rear tilt legs broke. Well, right now it's the only standard keyboard I have to throw on my laptop in the living room; so its time has finally come.

Took me a good 30 minutes to draw this up; I had to figure out how to do those compound fillets. Turned out perfect first iteration, though; even the recesses for the silicone rubber feet.  :-+

Printed on my Tevo Tornado in Inland Brand Purple PLA+ (From 2018!!!), 0.20LH, 60mm/s, 200°C/70°C Bed, no adhesion/supports, hairspray on mirror tile for sticky assist,infill set manually to 3mm grid, 1.2mm top/bottom, 1.2mm wall thickness. Otherwise all Cura defaults. Print time: 38 min total.

mnem
Ehhh... the boi is gaming on my laptop. I'll get you a Frustion360 screencap when I can get to it.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Bassman59 on February 06, 2022, 11:22:37 pm

Along this line, here are some risers for the Apple Magic Keyboard. I started working from home and the Das Keyboard is way too clicky when someone else is in the room, so I started using the Apple keyboard. It's way too close to the desktop, so these little risers (with rubber bumpers on the bottom) work well.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: RoGeorge on February 07, 2022, 09:07:46 pm
JWST's mirror actuators are AMAZING!
Breaking Taps

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MxH1sfJLBQ (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5MxH1sfJLBQ)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 13, 2022, 01:59:10 pm
Boring Just for Fun Everyday Print #312: Sword Gamepiece   


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1444690;image)
           "Congratulations son; you just printed a... pubic hair."    ;)

I recently unpacked my Creality CR-6SE and have been putting it to work for myself and my son. I recently set up my son's gaming rig as well; so the obvious thing to do was put Frustion360 and Cura on it and start teaching him a useful skill.  :-DD


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1462075;image)

So the other day he decided he wanted a Claymore sword as a gamepiece...  :o   Took me a good 30-40 minutes to draw this up; I had to figure out how to make the handle and quillion. The boi did design the base, but I pretty much had to take over after that. Lots of sketches in weird places.  :-DD

Because it is small (base diameter 30mm/75mm height), and I wanted it be sharp-ish looking, and I knew I'd need to get some infill grid inside the blade itself, I decided it was time to get into the finest setting available on the profile for 0.40 nozzle: 0.12mm LH. That's 625 layers!   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=81471.0;attach=693504;image)

So came about a fair bit of work tuning and tweaking the CR6-SE... After reassembling it post-move, I was having accuracy issues and problems with random "missing layer" print faults eventually determined to be under-extrusion; I went through and cleaned/adjusted every roller and tensioner on the thing, as well as tightening up the self-alignment mechanism on the Z-axis leadscrew nuts, and I finally had to go through the extruder as the drive cog had worn a bit dull...  :scared:


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1462081;image)

But all that work paid off... 3rd iteration (first one failed a couple mm above the base; next one completed, but several void layers made it fall apart during removal) printed beautifully. I enabled Tree Supports, then tweaked the TREE settings such that the base and contact areas are a bit oversized.

Note that this can make Cura automatically change from a single largish tree to 2 smaller ones as seen here! hmmmmm...!   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=938592;image)


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1462087;image)
   
And here it is after post-processing. My son and I are both dead chuffed with the results. Honestly, I'm amazed we can get this level of precision from a V-roller build at all


Printed on my CReality CR-6SE in Inland Brand Grey PLA+ (From 2018!!!), 0.12LH, 60mm/s, 210°C/60°C Bed, BRIM adhesion 4mm, TREE supports EVERYWHERE, infill set manually to 1mm grid, 0.8mm top/bottom/wall thickness, Bridging Modes Enabled. Otherwise all Cura defaults for CR6-SE profile. Print time: 2 hours 28 min.

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=901704;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: devflair on April 16, 2022, 08:19:11 am
What are peoples thoughts on the Anker 3d printer? I've had all sorts of printers in the past, but seem to be slightly attracted to this one.. not sure I'm going to do the kickstarter though... not got much faith in that!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYNZ0VzvywY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cYNZ0VzvywY)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Bassman59 on April 18, 2022, 03:03:19 pm
What are peoples thoughts on the Anker 3d printer? I've had all sorts of printers in the past, but seem to be slightly attracted to this one.. not sure I'm going to do the kickstarter though... not got much faith in that!

There's no point in giving them cash now and hoping they'll delivery a good product at some point in the future. Even though Anker is an established brand, why would you want to fund their R&D?

Wait for the products to ship and see what the (hopefully unbiased) reviews have to say before buying.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on April 18, 2022, 05:14:51 pm
My reaction to this is:

It looks like a more polished version of my CR-6SE. All of Andy's usual gripes (and mine) about the "not yet ready for prime-time" nature of hobbyist-grade 3DP were answered by the CR-6SE. 4 bolts and a few cables plugged in and I was literally printing 30 minutes after opening the box. It has fixed bed height with a reliable integrated self-initializing head that needs no "first-layer" zeroing and does automatic 16-point auto-leveling. It has great print quality right out of the box and continues to do so even after oodles of all-day prints. I love the printer; and in all honesty, it already delivered a year and a half ago the "ready for an average non-techy user experience" that the Anker M5 promises now.

What I hate about the printer is the same thing Andy hates most about the M5: KICKSTARTER. And how the company can take advantage of you; because of the terms of the site, they can literally take your money and never deliver jack-shit.

I was an early backer on the CR-6SE, and CREALITY fucked us all. HARD.

They did eventually deliver our printers, but not until AFTER delivering the first several dozen or so containerloads of printers to their wholesalers, and certainly not in the timeframe they promised, by at least 2 months.

We who bankrolled the production of their "new hawtness" languished for 2-6 months while watching other people show off their printers in their hot little hands for about $50 more than we paid via the Kickstarter... sometimes, even less than we paid in cases of "Lightning Sale" customers who got in on a promotion.

In short... Fuck Kickstarter, and fuck any company releasing a 3DP on Kickstarter.

 I watched Alex's review on ShortCircuit; I like his generally leery attitude towards new gear and MFR claims, and I know he knows a fair bit about 3DP, but this was a very cursory examination, not a in-depth analysis of the whole ecosystem. Also, as with most of LTT, his idea of what is a "reasonable price" for things tends towards the upscale end of the market.

While I do like direct-drive hotend & strain-gauge leveling, and the promise of 250mm/S printspeeds (I am highly dubious that it can actually deliver this for any large portion of an average utility-object print) and AI camera print defect detection, this printer is pretty much made entirely of bespoke parts. I see maintenance potentially being a closed-ecology nightmare, and I would damn sure not just throw money at a company who knows they don't have to deliver as promised, especially to supposedly save $60 over retail.

Wait and buy it retail. After real 3DP gurus like Andy, Thomas and Chuck have a chance to use production models firsthand and pass judgement.

If I had the money to spend and they say it delivers, or even mostly delivers on most of its promises, I'd buy it.

Or, if you're in the market for a 3DP right now, or can't justify the $700-800 pricetag, or have a deep abiding dislike/distrust of any closed-ecology tech widget, I'd say buy the CR-6SE. it's about half the price and is mostly made of easy-to-acquire and cheap standard parts.

Here's Alex's vid; he does take the bottom off and you get to see the insides and the milled casting of the base:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E581GZ_dZbY (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E581GZ_dZbY)

mnem
*inspecting some linear actuators for future... projects*   >:D
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 03, 2022, 02:40:37 pm
Boring Mundane Everyday Print #307: Bed Leg Riser   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1477387;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1477375;image)   AutoDesk Online 3D Viewer (https://myhub.autodesk360.com/ue2ce096c/g/projects/20190413188313856/data/dXJuOmFkc2sud2lwcHJvZDpmcy5mb2xkZXI6Y28uT3dLWWxZb1pUblc4RGJrazJYVzE4UQ/dXJuOmFkc2sud2lwcHJvZDpkbS5saW5lYWdlOi1rSTBfNEVkUkxTc3hhOTBxWGk3NEE/viewer)

Simple problem; easy fix with 3DP. We have these beds that are designed to be used without boxspring; they're awesome in that they're just tall enough (~12.5"/320mm clearance) to slide a full-size 57L Sterilite storage bin under. Except when they're not... like on carpet where the bed sinks in a little. |O

So I designed these polygon block risers to go on the 30.5mm square tube legs; they'll lift the whole bed up 25mm to make up the difference, and will also allow use of some other bins we have that are ~6mm taller than the Sterilite ones.

As these are supporting 2 people, I made all outer surfaces 1.2mm thick, and to ensure good layer adhesion with old, unknown condition PLA filament in .3mm Draft Print Profile, I've dried the filament in my air fryer/dehydrator at 40°C for 4 hours, and set up the print at 210°C hotend and 110% feed rate. These are a pretty high-density print and 65mm tall, so I broke the job up between two printers.

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1477381;image)   

Here you can see my Tevo Tornado set up in the basement; for sanity's sake I watch the print using a video baby monitor when I'm upstairs.  :-+ Yes, yes, I know about OctoPrint. Not worth the PITA to me when this just works and consumes zero bandwidth.

Printed on my Tevo Tornado in Inland Brand Purple PLA+ (From 2018!!!) AND on my CReality CR-6SE in Inland Brand Grey PLA+ (also from 2018!!!), 0.30LH, 60mm/s, 210°C/70°C Bed, no adhesion/supports, hairspray on mirror tile for sticky assist, infill set manually to 1.5mm grid, 1.2mm top/bottom, 1.2mm wall thickness. Otherwise all Cura defaults. Print time ~15 hours with both printers running, ~625 grams filament total.

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=900426;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 03, 2022, 06:36:40 pm
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1477522;image)

And of course, no successful project comes to term without something going wrong; in this case, I ignored one of the cardinal rules of enginerdery, and drew up my plans from memory, resulting in a design that was 5mm too effing big.    |O

Remember boizz and grrlzz... ALWAYS write down your measurements!

Of course, I will find some good use for the reject part! ;)


mnem
This PSA brought to you by angry pixies running down a wire.

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: georges80 on May 08, 2022, 01:29:54 am
I tend to use anderson powerpoles for most of my vehicle 12V stuff, charger cables, water transfer pump, mobile ham chargers, LED lighting etc etc.

So, to that end I've made a bunch of different things to allow easy use of the powerpoles.

From vehicle power outlets to inline switches to powerpole 'expanders'. They get used when I'm out camping in my 4wd.

cheers,
george.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 09, 2022, 10:14:26 pm
APP/Sermos connectors... Ewww, yuckyputz!  :P

mnem
Nice panelwork, tho. :-+
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: georges80 on May 09, 2022, 11:43:43 pm
^ Actually, the powerpoles are great for temporary power connections. Since they are genderless and mate with each other, you can easily configure extensions, switches, port expanders etc. Self wiping, high current in a small package, fairly rugged, easy to field maintain if necessary with minimal tools. I used the SB50 stuff for higher current and they are pretty common for 4wd usage.

Powerpoles are common in the HAM area.

For my temporary usage, 12V drill, water pump, camp lights, charging cables for various 12V stuff etc., they are perfect compared to cigarette lighter plugs that are designed to push/fall out :)

I've used powerpoles on many camping trips out bush and have not found a downside in how I use them.

For more permanent connections, Deutsch/delphi/weatherpack etc are clearly a better choice, especially if subjected to 'weather'.

cheers,
george.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 10, 2022, 12:51:05 am
I have extensive and intimate experience with them; I used to use them racing RC on carpet oval, dirt oval and scale drags. Too fragile, too easy to eff up the leaf-springs inside and then the wiper surface has inadequate tension against the flat of the contact, then their much-vaunted low contact resistance goes to crap.

The one thing I did like about them was being able to stack them and make a permanent multi-pole connector with just a dot of CA on each shell.

mnem
 :-\
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 10, 2022, 12:52:12 am
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1482766;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1482778;image)

Starting small... very small.

As in ~8mm x 19mm x 9mm tall.  :o

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1482772;image)

Why is this something new...? This is my first part in TPU with my CR6-SE; actually my first time printing TPU on any printer I own. This is a replacement for missing rubber snubbers in the drawer glides in my big effing toolbox.

Hmmm... this is a very firm TPU; I'd guess Rockwell 90A, maybe harder. Really good for rubber bumpers; I might even use a belt printed of this stuff. Not a cogged/timing belt, but like if I needed a loader belt for a VCR or tape deck... yeah.

The detent action with the new bumpers is excellent... and now I can start sorting all my tools back into my box.  :-+

Printed on my CReality CR-6SE in Priline Black TPU from Amazon (https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B074DV9JMX/), 0.20LH, 20mm/s & 15mm/s, 230°C/45°C Bed, no adhesion/supports, 100% infill, 1.2mm top/bottom, 1.2mm wall thickness, Flow rate 110%.  Otherwise all Cura defaults for CR-6SE profile. Print time ~15 minutes/copy, 1 gram filament.

mnem
*toddles off to sort some tools*

Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: thm_w on May 10, 2022, 10:17:18 pm
Yeah amazon says "The shore value of our TPU filament is 98a." So that is quite high, but, also would be easier to print. I used some 95A and it was good for a hard shoe rubber.

Incorrectly assumed all TPU would be the same stuff, obviously not. It looks like the lowest available is 60A: https://all3dp.com/1/flexible-filament-tpu-tpe-tpc-best-brands/
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: metrologist on May 11, 2022, 09:10:19 pm
Did I miss where we are printing our PCB traces by now? I know conductive filament exists but last I read it wasn't a suitable replacement for copper traces.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: beanflying on May 12, 2022, 02:32:58 am
Did I miss where we are printing our PCB traces by now? I know conductive filament exists but last I read it wasn't a suitable replacement for copper traces.

Around a year ago nothing I have seen shows much progress on it as an option.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/creating-a-homemade-pcb-with-the-voltera-v-one-pcb-printer/ (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/creating-a-homemade-pcb-with-the-voltera-v-one-pcb-printer/)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 14, 2022, 05:28:01 pm
Yeah; same with the PCB mill options out there aside from LPKF, which are just ridiculously priced for any hobbyist use.

Everything I've found that's affordable is just low-precision CNC mills for acrylic, etc repurposed... and IMO, they just can't make a clean, precise cut in a PCB. At least not clean & precise enough to work with common SMD parts, which is of course what we'd most want the process for. And none of them have a complete ecosystem including all the peripheral bits like vias, etc known to work rather than "you figure it out for yourself" options from multiple different vendors.

I suspect a real CNC mill... even a small one, will probably be my next rabbit-hole... *sigh*

mnem
*drowning in sawdust*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 22, 2022, 04:34:58 am
Boring Mundane Everyday Print #312: Meanwell PSU Endcaps   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1441948;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1493053;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1493059;image)   AutoDesk Online 3D Viewer (https://a360.co/3MGz9p0)

I've had this ugly-ass Meanwell 24V PSU on my desk ever since the original power brick from my 32" Cinema display kakked. I finally got tired enough of looking at it to do something; I decided to whip this out so I could put it away.

Design is thin enough that I can stash it under the CPU, but my desk has a shelf underneath, so I wanna put it there. Endcaps are a press-fit, and allow for use of a salvaged C14 socket and DC power cord from an old AiO PC. And I finally found a use for Deans' connectors that doesn't make me wanna cringe.  :-DD

This is actually part 1 of a bigger project; if part 2 is successful, I'll update with more pics.

Printed on my CReality CR-6SE in Inland Brand black PLA+, 0.28LH, 60mm/s, 210°C/60°C Bed, flow 110%, no adhesion/supports, infill set manually to 1.5mm Grid, 1.12mm top/bottom, 0.8mm wall thickness. Otherwise all Cura defaults for CR-6SE profile. Print time 7.5 hours, 98 grams filament total.

mnem
(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=900426;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on May 23, 2022, 05:07:59 pm
Boring Mundane Everyday Print #313: Camera Battery Door Bungee Bits  >:D

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1494166;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1494172;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1494178;image)     
Fusion360 Online 3D Viewer (https://a360.co/3yTfzl3)

"heh-heh... he said bungee bits... heh-heh... heh-heh..." :P

I had the idea for this while fumbling with my poor old Sony DSC-H2 to take pics for the print above; I've had this camera for over 10 years and I just can't seem to give up having it on my bench for stuff just like this. The optics on the thing are world-class; it takes amazing macro pictures right up to the point of hitting the lens with the subject, and taking pics on the bench, the fact of only being 6MP is actually a help rather than a hindrance. Means I can often post without having to resize.  :-+

That said... it has suffered being right next to the ol' BumbleButt dwagon for a decade... it's been knocked off onto the floor a time or three, and this family of cameras is known to have a failure where the catches for the battery door break, and the bit that breaks is part of the battery box inside the camera.

A fair assache to fix; and yes, I have toyed with the idea of modeling and printing a replacement battery box, or at least some little bit to patch the thing. (https://filedn.com/lEDSGUXnO7mp9lWR3BbARrR/Emoticons/nah.gif)

So I've been using the thing for over a year with a piece of masking tape holding the battery door shut... but today I realized I could replace the tape with a gumband stretched between a screw in the base and the strap loop. So I worked these bits up real quick to make that happen.

I'm dead chuffed with the results; short of actually fixing the battery door like it came new, this is pretty much as easy to use as it can possibly be. Friction keeps the loops of the gumband from falling off the screw, and the hook is captive so can't fall off. Definitely puts my old beast back on the "good enough to use everyday" side of the bench.  :-+

This is my first successful attempt at printing a working thread; the hole in the camera base is 1/4-20 UNC x 7mm deep. For those who use Fusion360 in metric like I do, you start out with a 6.35mm cylinder the length you want the thread in mm; once you select the cylindrical object, the thread tool becomes available in the CREATE menu.

I've never actually tried before, as it has taken me a while to get to where I know how to prep rod-shaped structures with any real integral strength; today I used a couple tricks developed while figuring out how to print DeadPool-icorn (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/msg3373902/?topicseen#msg3373902)...

First, I used the finest LH in the profile: 0.12mm. Then I set temp up a wee bit over normal for the filament; 205 instead of 200, etc as needed for the particular filament.

After that, I set my infill manually to a very small size... in this case, 1mm in grid or cubic pattern.

And finally... I tell Cura I'm using a 0.2mm nozzle... even tho I'm using the 0.4mm. This makes it slice with a lot more lines, but the extrusion rate is correct for a 0.2mm nozzle; this results in the lines overlapping due to oversized nozzle.

Effect is that outer surfaces are not quite as precise as if printed with a 0.2mm nozzle due to the smearing effect... but it is still far better than if printed using the 0.4mm profile. The adhesion strength doing it this way is phenomenal, because we are essentially making every pass a lap joint rather than layers of butt joints. I can tighten this 1/4-20 bolt as tight as I can hold it between my fingers and it doesn't break. :-+

Printed on my CReality CR-6SE in Inland Brand black PLA+, 0.12LH, 0.2mm extruder profile with 0.4mm nozzle, 60mm/s, 205°C/60°C Bed, flow 110%, no adhesion/supports, infill set manually to 1.0mm Cubic, 0.8mm top/bottom, 0.8mm wall thickness. Otherwise all Cura defaults for CR-6SE profile. Print time 30 min/piece, 2 grams filament total.

mnem
DeadPool-icorn (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/msg3373902/?topicseen#msg3373902):   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1133470;image)
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on June 11, 2022, 07:27:14 pm
Boring Mundane Everyday Print #319:
Battery Holder For Harbor Freight/BAUER Hedge Trimmer
   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1508836;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1508842;image)   AutoDesk Online 3D Viewer (https://a360.co/3tvKHnm)

So... one of the things we realized this spring is that this property has actual deliberately planted, groomed hedges by the front door... and lots of bushes that need to be kept trimmed away from the house to discourage pests.

A couple weeks ago I picked this up because cheap-cheap; I was looking at used cordless trimmers on CL for $75 and more and just going "No way in Hell I'm paying that..." Well, Horror Fraught popped this in my inbox as a "Global Price Reduction" item (lots of retailers are slashing prices on housewares, since the COVID lockdowns are over, people are spending money going out and on travel instead), then Memorial Day a coupon that brought it down to $37 with tax. SOLD!

I've had it apart for a while figuring out the control PCB; at first I wasn't sure it would work, as the BAUER packs are a "dumb" battery with all the balancing terminals brought out (they copied DeWalt; including their pinout) to the header. But it turns out it is directly compatible with the KOBALT smart batteries as long as you also implement the thermistor circuit; it even appears to be a similar curve to the thermistor Kobalt used.

So once that was established, it was time to make up a battery adapter like I did with my Makita SawzAll shown above; this holder is actually a remix of that one.


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1508848;image)

Once the part was printed and successfully test-fitted with a battery, it was time to make the contacts. As I didn't have any of the copper bits I used for the Makita adaptor, I decided to use some of this copper door weatherseal, as I have yards of the stuff. It's pretty thin, so even doubled over I was worried about it just collapsing under the pressure of the battery springs. So I cut some little strips with the corrugation going the opposite direction and soldered them in place at the back of the contact to keep them captive. As always, the Metcal takes anything I throw at it in stride.


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1508854;image)

Next came soldering the contacts to the controller PCB wires; this was a job for the 700°F tip, as one needs to work hot and fast when soldering right on PLA.  ;)


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1508860;image)

Here it is all hooked up. The controller PCB has a dual interlock to keep you holding the thing with both hands; if either switch opens, it immediately kills power and shorts the motor to brake the mechanism to a halt almost instantly. A bit startling as the sparks do fly at the motor brushes when you let go!  :o


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1508866;image)

Here it is with the new battery holder screwed down...


(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1508872;image)

And all buttoned up, ready to go to work tomorrow morning!

Printed on my CReality CR-6SE in Inland Brand black PLA+, 0.28LH, 60mm/s, 210°C/60°C Bed, flow 110%, no adhesion/supports, infill set manually to 1mm Cubic, 1.12mm top/bottom, 0.8mm wall thickness. Otherwise all Cura defaults for CR-6SE profile. Print time 3.2 hours, 47 grams filament total.

mnem
I fought the lawn and the lawn won...  :P
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 14, 2022, 11:32:06 pm
Boring Mundane Everyday Print #333: SSD Adapter for MacPro HDD Sled   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1538554;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1538560;image)    https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1630550

Picked up a cheap SSD from Amazon Prime to wake up the MacPro a wee bit; of course, this old iron is designed around fast Barracuda spinning rust, not little 2.5" format SSDs. Numerous adapters have been around on Thingiverse for a while; this one looked like the quickest and simplest print.

Printed on my CReality CR-6SE in Inland Brand black PLA+, 0.20LH, 60mm/s, 205°C/60°C Bed, flow 110%, no adhesion/supports, infill set manually to 1mm Cubic, 0.8mm top/bottom, 0.8mm wall thickness. Otherwise all Cura defaults for CR-6SE profile. Print time 0.9hours, 10 grams filament.

mnem
Now to do battle with MacOS Migration Tool...  :P
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on July 29, 2022, 04:02:45 pm
Boring Mundane Everyday Interesting Fun TE-Related Project Print #832:
Shell for TK's Siglent/HP Logic analyzer Pod Adapter
   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1550560;image)       3D Model Web Viewer (https://a360.co/3zfRO5p)

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5444184   

This is the 3DP part of a pretty complex project I've posted here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/diy-logic-probes-alternate-approach-using-tks-adapter-pcb/msg4326775/#msg4326775

   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1549606;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1549612;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/diy-logic-probes-alternate-approach-using-tks-adapter-pcb/?action=dlattach;attach=1551412;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/diy-logic-probes-alternate-approach-using-tks-adapter-pcb/?action=dlattach;attach=1551424;image)

Printed on my CReality CR-6SE in Inland Brand black PLA+, 0.16LH, 60mm/s, 205°C/60°C Bed, flow 110%, Supports TOUCHING BUILDPLATE, infill set manually to 1mm Cubic, 1.2mm top/bottom, 0.8mm wall thickness. Otherwise all Cura defaults for CR-6SE profile. Print time ~3 hours per complete shell, ~30 grams filament.

mnem
*currently nuking a 54621D*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: mnementh on August 09, 2022, 12:25:02 am
Interesting Fun TE-Related Project Print #844: HP Logo Filler Plate for 546xxx Family Scopes   

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/test-equipment-anonymous-(tea)-group-therapy-thread/?action=dlattach;attach=1554850;image)   https://a360.co/3zNKW0M

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing: 

(https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1561174;image)   (https://www.eevblog.com/forum/3d-printing/3d-printer-yet/?action=dlattach;attach=1561180;image)

This was part of my restoration of a HP 54621D; filler plates for the bail holes on my 54645A as I robbed the bail off it for the 54621D.  :-DD


Printed on my CReality CR-6SE, face down on Build-Tak surface for grainy texture. Printed in Inland Brand black PLA+, 0.20LH, 60mm/s, 205°C/60°C Bed, flow 110%, NO Supports, BRIDGING MODES enabled, infill set manually to 1mm Cubic, 0.8mm top/bottom, 0.8mm wall thickness. Otherwise all Cura defaults for CR-6SE profile. Print time ~1 hour per plate, ~12 grams filament.

mnem
*currently nuking a 54621D*
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Ranayna on August 09, 2022, 07:09:09 am
Interesting decision printing this face down. I don't think i would have tried that, considering the long bridging distance, but the pattern looks quite nice.

I think i need to consider such long bridges in one of my printing projects.
Title: Re: 3D Printer yet?
Post by: Jeroen3 on July 11, 2023, 09:44:08 am
I would like to make one more post to this topic, answering "3D printer yet?"

I have bought an Prusa MK4.
It is literally plug&print, no calibration required at all, never, just tapping the nozzle once.
Perfect first layer out of the box (well, after assembly). With their input shaping firmware it prints fast.
A 6h50m print on the mk3 is 2h on the mk4is!

I think 3D FDM printing is "done" now. What else can be done?