Author Topic: 3D printer for starting  (Read 2631 times)

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Offline hiei27Topic starter

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3D printer for starting
« on: January 24, 2025, 10:16:14 am »
hi everyone,

i am looking for suggestion for  a 3D printer for someone (me) that wants to approach this world from scratch. This means that budget is tight (max 200€) since i can't really justify a bigger expense for something that maybe i won't bring forward (i could expand the budget if there is a good enough reason for starting at something like 300€, like some incredible feature that makes life easier).

Is there any printer that can work with most of the filament materials so that i can get to test most of the things?
 

Offline amwales

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #1 on: January 24, 2025, 11:51:34 am »
People say a lot of good things about the Bambu Lab A1 which is in your budget. The Bambu p1s and x1c are more expensive units and again get some pretty favourable reviews.
3d printing is not as consumer ready as we are led to believe but Bambu seem to be pushing it that way.
I do not own a Bambu printer, I have an old Prusa mk3s but I am jealous seeing the prints and print times coming from Bambu users.
Right now people are getting their knickers in a twist over some statements that were made by Bambu about support for 3rd party slicers, it seems like a lot of noise.
Whatever you get its always interesting to hear feedback so post something here.
 

Offline wilfred

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #2 on: January 24, 2025, 12:39:09 pm »
It recently popped up in my YT feed that Bambu Lab has changed the terms of sale and a bunfight is playing out regarding firmware updates now. Just search on YT about Bambu firmware update and you'll get a rash of hits including Louis Rossman. It might not matter to you but you ought to make an informed choice.

Just something else to consider.

Whilst I'm not a 3d print expert I will suggest getting a printer with an auto bed level sensor. It doesn't physically level the bed but it does scan the bed for high and low spots where the bed is not flat. Then it can adjust the print to take these into account to improve the first layer adhesion and hence print reliability.

Open frame printers are generally the cheaper ones and are fine for materials that are less sensitive to rapid cooling and consequent warping. But some materials need an enclosed printer and a heated print environment to control warpage that can lead to failed prints. You will have difficulty finding a cheaper printer that does a broad range of materials well.
 

Offline hiei27Topic starter

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #3 on: January 24, 2025, 05:13:59 pm »
so bambu a1 mini is a recommendation got a recommendation, there are any others? i hope it's not the only choice Oo
 

Offline ejeffrey

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #4 on: January 24, 2025, 08:28:30 pm »
The creality ender 3 family is still popular as an inexpensive starting printer.  There are also a lot of people who have bought one, used it, decided it wasn't capable enough and upgraded it.  So there are a lot of howtos about upgrading it out there should you want to.

 

Offline hiei27Topic starter

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #5 on: January 24, 2025, 09:21:03 pm »
do you have any example of this kind of upgrade, just in case i want to start cheap and upgrade, this can be a viable path
 

Offline Lindley

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #6 on: January 24, 2025, 09:28:44 pm »
As said above , the Bambu A1 and Mini do get very good user reviews as a ready out of the box printer, though at the top end of your budget.

The Creality Ender printers are one of the most popular budget printers , you can get one  new for just €169, but like anything else you get what you pay for. We have the earlier Ender3 v2.
https://store.creality.com/eu/products/ender-3-v3-se-3d-printer?spm=..collection_f039d777-5efa-459f-ae24-276dcb248e28.header_1.1&spm_prev=..index.products_display_nav_1.1

If you just want to avoid the expense of  buying something new, look on the usual selling sites for a second hand model such as the Ender 3 or Ender 3 V2  there are usually lots around, though do make sure you can see it printing as they do need a bit of setting up.  The advantage is they will usually come fully set up and working plus with some extras like spare filaments  for well under €100, so other than your time not too  much to loose.
 

Offline Lindley

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #7 on: January 24, 2025, 09:37:53 pm »
do you have any example of this kind of upgrade, just in case i want to start cheap and upgrade, this can be a viable path

For those earlier Enders there were many upgrades available some as little as a few  € to something like expensive new print heads or adding extra motors to the Z axis etc etc.

However would upgrading such a printer and the time and cost involved result in a printer as good as the Bambu, not really, so we have been told by folk who have done that and bought a Bambu.



 

Offline ejeffrey

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #8 on: January 24, 2025, 10:13:11 pm »
do you have any example of this kind of upgrade, just in case i want to start cheap and upgrade, this can be a viable path

A friend of mine has one and replaced the extruder.  Upgrading the cooling fans can improve performance as well.  Enclosures (often based on Ikea Lack endtables) are another popular modification for any open frame printer.  Some people flash klipper firmware and use a raspberry pi to control it.
 

Offline kripton2035

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #9 on: January 24, 2025, 10:54:43 pm »
if you want to spend more time tweaking your printer than actually 3d printing, then buy an Ender
if you want to 3d print only, then buy the Bambulab...
 
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Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #10 on: January 25, 2025, 01:40:20 am »
I started with the Basic Ender3 and have been happy with the result.  It is still in use even though I have upgraded to a Bambu with filament management.

I have done several minor upgrades to the Ender, but the only I really feel is a must do is replacing the build plate.  A coated magnetic build plate really makes life easier.  That is an easy and inexpensive upgrade.

 

Offline MarkF

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #11 on: January 25, 2025, 03:49:21 am »
I've had my Creality CR10 Mini (similar to and preceded the Ender 3) for many years.  I very pleased with it and the only upgrades I've done is put on a Capricorn PTFE Bowden Tube and a stainless steel extruder gear.  The wheels are starting to wear after all this time and need replacing.

I imagine automatic bed leveling would be nice.  But not having it isn't something to run away from.  It takes a little to get the knack of.  I tend to only need to do it every 3 or 4 months though.  I can't say I print every day but a few prints a week.

I print on glass with a thin coat of cheap hair spray.  The prints easily come off if you let the bed cool to room temperature.  I believe most printers have gone away from glass.

My only complaint is that I'm now trying to print smaller and smaller objects.  I have problems with small lettering that is only 2mm tall.  It's readable but barely.  I'm really asking too much of the printer at this point.  Actually, any filament printer.

Printers are much better today and if you don't have the funds I wouldn't be afraid to get the Ender 3.  You might also checkout the Elegoo Neptune 3.

One issue that has not been brought up is Marlin or Klipper firmware.  You NEED to decide before buying.  You can't change after the fact.
 

Online mwb1100

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #12 on: January 25, 2025, 04:15:48 am »
One issue that has not been brought up is Marlin or Klipper firmware.  You NEED to decide before buying.  You can't change after the fact.

Why is that?  I'm a complete novice - actually not even a novice as I don't have a printer yet, but from my reading you can reflash whichever firmware you want to the printer.  The catch is that if you reflash Marlin you need to recalibrate which can be time consuming.

What is it that I don't understand?

The need to recalibrate Marlin (if that is in fact the case) raises another question for me - why can't the current calibration be saved so it can be easily restored?
« Last Edit: January 25, 2025, 04:19:28 am by mwb1100 »
 

Offline ejeffrey

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #13 on: January 25, 2025, 04:25:42 am »
The ender 3 now has auto bed levelling, even in the base version I think.

Another big factor is size.  I probably wouldn't recommend any of the "mini" size printers unless you were sure that's was going to be enough.  Or, if what you want to print is something like small figurines with fine details maybe consider resin printing?  Creality makes some inexpensive but high resolution resin printers.  I haven't tried it, the resin handling, part cleaning, and UV curing sounds a bit too annoying to me.
 

Online brucehoult

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2025, 04:59:37 am »
I'm looking at getting into 3D printing again after 10 years not having one (since I moved from NZ to Russia in 2015, to USA in 2019, and back to NZ in 2020)

Bambu has been looking like the thing to get, and Jaycar stocks them and there's a branch in my local town (~35 minutes drive).

So the kerfuffle this week is concerning. See Geerling's video from a few days ago:



I was part of a small group that jointly bought and built a Makerbot Thing-O-Matic in I think 2011.

I built my own printer from a kitset designed and sold here in NZ by Vik Olliver. one of the original reprap people in the UK. I that that was late 2012. I see the designs I uploaded to thingiverse were in August 2013, but I'd been sitting on them for a while.

I print on glass with a thin coat of cheap hair spray.  The prints easily come off if you let the bed cool to room temperature.  I believe most printers have gone away from glass.

The DiamondMind printer came with a plywood bed and you were supposed to use 3M blue tape, but I never thought that was satisfactory. I visited a nearby window glass guy who operated out of his garage and he gave me an offcut for free (cut it to the size I wanted). I used that with, yes, the cheapest hairspray. Things stuck really well. If they had a large base area then they could be very hard to get off by hand, but popping the whole bed in the freezer for 10 minutes always did the job.

I used 3M Picture Hanging Strips (available in every supermarket) to attach the bed to the printer. They're kind of like a cross between velcro and very fine pitch lego and actually give AMAZING reproducibility of the positioning in the vertical axis (with horizontal strips). Precise enough that taking the bed off and putting it back didn't need any recalibration to make the first layer of the next print work correctly.
 

Offline ejeffrey

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2025, 05:50:30 am »
Yeah, most printers even the cheap ones have moved to heated beds w/ magnetic build sheets.  They are great.  It's a thin piece of spring steel that is held to the bed with magnets.  The are available with different coatings and textures.  You print, wait for the bed to cool down, then pop the build sheet off and flex it and the print comes right off.  The build sheet can be removed for easy cleaning, you can get different textures, and if they get damaged are easily replaceable.
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2025, 06:17:43 am »
Is there any printer that can work with most of the filament materials so that i can get to test most of the things?

That's the problem.  I have a basic but newer Ender 3 V2 and it is great for PLA, no plans to upgrade as it churns out all sorts of things I need with very few problems.  However, if you want to to TPU, Nylon or ABS you go off into another dimension of difficulty.  The good news is that good PLA filaments accomplish most of what I need as far as making spare parts, tools, fixtures and stuff around the house.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 

Offline hiei27Topic starter

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #17 on: January 25, 2025, 06:56:41 am »
i was looking at a flashforge adventurer 5m, but that would require stretching the budget to 300€, is it worth to move to a XY type? they say it's the best thing, but i ask the experts here:

 going to 300€ budget will net me tangible benefits (like more accuracy or speed or the ability to print a new type of material) or it's a dumb idea for starting out?

Keeping in mind that my idea is to be able to try most of the things u can do with 3d printing, so i think being able to use different kinds of filaments is important for this sort of "test all the things" approach.

It's probably more cost savy to spend a little more initially to be able to print all kind of filaments then maybe go with a cheaper thing and finding out u need another, different printer for other materials.

The more i search, the more confused i become, too much choice is as bad as no choice ahah
 

Offline ejeffrey

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #18 on: January 25, 2025, 07:55:38 am »
i was looking at a flashforge adventurer 5m, but that would require stretching the budget to 300€, is it worth to move to a XY type? they say it's the best thing, but i ask the experts here:

This is a tricky question.  There is definitely a perception that core XY is the "best" and makes cartesian "obsolete".   But you should think about what tangible benefits it brings and how that affects what you want.  The most unarguable benefit of core-XY is that for a given build volume it make a smaller printer that is easier to enclose.  It also has less moving mass.  This *can* lead to higher speed.  With input shaping (resonance compensation) both cartesian and core-XY printers can actually go quite fast at reasonable quality, but mid-priced core-XY printers are usually considerably faster than inexpensive cartesian printers.  The maximum speed of core-xy printers can be much higher but print quality suffers due to limitations of the extrusion process.  You can either decide you don't really care about speed, or you should compare speeds of reasonable quality prints, not just the maximum speed of the kinematics.

Quote
Keeping in mind that my idea is to be able to try most of the things u can do with 3d printing, so i think being able to use different kinds of filaments is important for this sort of "test all the things" approach.

The main thing is that if you want to print materials other than PLA, an enclosure is helpful or necessary depending on the material and environment.  You can build or buy an enclosure to go around any printer, you just have to consider the cost vs. just buying a nicer printer.   For the low end of the market, spending $50 on acrylic panels to build an enclosure is a big fraction of the cost.  If you are trying to keep to a budget and tolerate something a bit janky you can get a cheap collapsable tent type enclosure like https://www.amazon.com/Enclosure-Fireproof-Temperature-Protective-28-7%C3%9725-6%C3%9721-6/dp/B0CDXCTQP1/ref=asc_df_B0CDXCTQP1 which will probably do what you want.

Quote
The more i search, the more confused i become, too much choice is as bad as no choice ahah

Yeah, there are a lot of options and a lot of differences that can be hard to tell how important they are.  It also seems you don't have a single overriding application you know you want to optimize your choice around.  My advice would be to buy a popular printer and don't stretch your budget too much.  Compared to even 5 years ago, pretty much any printer you buy will basically work out of the box.  A popular printer mostly guarantees you won't get a complete piece of garbage and that if you have problems will be able to find help.  Avoid stretching your budget too much because if you actually use it you are probably going to want to spend money on accessories and filament.
 

Online brucehoult

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #19 on: January 25, 2025, 09:29:31 am »
It's probably more cost savy to spend a little more initially to be able to print all kind of filaments then maybe go with a cheaper thing and finding out u need another, different printer for other materials.

Coming back and looking at getting at a modern printer after not having one for ten years, it seems that PLA, ABS, Nylon, HDPE, PET/PETG are not the only materials any more. It seems there is now also filament with glass or carbon fibres embedded, which according to the Bambu materials needs one of their higher-end printers with a harder material in the print nozzle.

I'm curious whether the kind of I assume very short fibres you can get in a meltable and extrudable filament can actually make a significantly stronger product, and whether it comes anywhere near to e.g. commercial carbon fibre products.

Does anyone here have experience with it?
 

Offline kripton2035

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #20 on: January 25, 2025, 10:37:51 am »
I had the same reflexion last year, and ended up buying a X1C. I don't regret it ! even with the recent polemic about the locked firmware.
 

Offline hiei27Topic starter

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #21 on: January 25, 2025, 12:03:51 pm »
I had the same reflexion last year, and ended up buying a X1C. I don't regret it ! even with the recent polemic about the locked firmware.

that is more than 1k € here, definetly too much for my budget
 

Offline Lindley

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #22 on: January 25, 2025, 03:32:11 pm »


Quote
Keeping in mind that my idea is to be able to try most of the things u can do with 3d printing, so i think being able to use different kinds of filaments is important for this sort of "test all the things" approach.


Its worth checking with the manufacturers as to what filament types each printer uses.
As you can see here Bambu A1 does not recommend  ABS or Carbon Fibre Petg.

Though feel sure plenty of A1 owners will print with them.
Even we have used CF PETG on our old Ender after changing the nozzle to a steel one.

https://wiki.bambulab.com/en/general/filament-guide-material-table
 

Offline ejeffrey

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #23 on: January 25, 2025, 03:56:06 pm »
I'm curious whether the kind of I assume very short fibres you can get in a meltable and extrudable filament can actually make a significantly stronger product, and whether it comes anywhere near to e.g. commercial carbon fibre products.

Does anyone here have experience with it?

It doesn't make the result noticably stronger, if for no other reason that the fibers don't cross the layer lines which are the weak part. 

I have some that I have used.  I'm not sure if any other physical properties are improved but it does look cool.  My printer came with a brass nozzle.  I just bought a hardened steel nozzle to use for the CF filament.
 

Offline CatalinaWOW

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Re: 3D printer for starting
« Reply #24 on: January 25, 2025, 04:30:04 pm »
My Ender 3 has handled PLA, PETG, and TPU just fine.  Not Nylon or ABS.  But the materials it can print cover almost everything I want.  The only thing that might be nice but isn't covered is easy vapor smoothing.  I don't really miss it.

I would emphasize the comment about choosing a popular brand.  If you use your printer a lot things will wear out or fail.  Nozzles if nothing else.  Replacements for popular printer parts are easy and inexpensive to source, and plenty of advice on tuning and repairs is available.
 


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