Author Topic: Direct Drive?  (Read 3799 times)

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Offline xrunner

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Re: Direct Drive?
« Reply #25 on: June 29, 2021, 12:24:18 pm »
One thing I will be watching is how well they age. My first thought is that the drive cable might start flexing with age, or wearing at the connection points. I'm not familiar with using drive cables, so I don't know if these are problems they suffer from.

The cable looks like a wire-wound steel job. Looks pretty beefy. They had a few issues at one time with the ends of the cables but it was an issue with the supplier's mistake fabricating them.
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Offline Brumby

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Re: Direct Drive?
« Reply #26 on: June 29, 2021, 01:45:51 pm »
My caution with the mechanical cable drive is the torsion stress.  This will present as backlash - but I'm unsure as to how much of an issue it would be.
 

Offline Microdoser

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Re: Direct Drive?
« Reply #27 on: June 29, 2021, 01:52:06 pm »
My caution with the mechanical cable drive is the torsion stress.  This will present as backlash - but I'm unsure as to how much of an issue it would be.

Torsional flexing is my concern also. Still, the proof of the pudding is in the eating and if the prints turn out as good but faster, or better but the same speed, then the upgrade was worth it.

As I said above, seeing before/after print quality comparison images will be very interesting.

Myself, I upgraded to deal with reliability issues with the Bowden setup. I'll accept slower prints at the same quality as a trade-off for far better reliability
 

Offline towe96

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Re: Direct Drive?
« Reply #28 on: June 30, 2021, 05:14:16 am »
I've upgraded my X5S and CR-10S so far - absolutely worth it.

The X5S is my main machine, and I've designed a custom carriage for it to hold an E3DV6 and a BMG extruder.
Yes, it weights more, but the reliability and lower stringing is easily worth it - also, I'm using Klipper with the "Input Shaper" resonance compensation, so there's no ringing either.
 

Offline Microdoser

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Re: Direct Drive?
« Reply #29 on: June 30, 2021, 12:33:41 pm »
I've upgraded my X5S and CR-10S so far - absolutely worth it.

The X5S is my main machine, and I've designed a custom carriage for it to hold an E3DV6 and a BMG extruder.
Yes, it weights more, but the reliability and lower stringing is easily worth it - also, I'm using Klipper with the "Input Shaper" resonance compensation, so there's no ringing either.

That is something I am interested in, Klipper running from a Pi4, but I've spent more time upgrading my printer than printing lately, and I need a break, so it's a plan for the future when I've figured out how to do it.
 

Offline xrunner

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Re: Direct Drive?
« Reply #30 on: July 04, 2021, 10:39:29 pm »
I don't know when the Zesty Nimble V3 is going to be shipping and they aren't selling the previous versions. All you can do is pre-order it. I sent them some questions about it using their contact form on the website. I got no response in over a week.

Not direct drive, but I'm going to try this out and see how it goes. A clear-case BMG clone dual-gear extruder. Has a 30:1 gear reduction. I'll do some before and after prints.

 :popcorn:
My friends say they're procrastinators. I say I've been meaning to tell them for years, but I just keep putting it off.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Direct Drive?
« Reply #31 on: July 04, 2021, 10:44:33 pm »
Has a 30:1 gear reduction.

I'm not sure you have the step rate for that before complicating it with a bowden. ;)
 

Offline xrunner

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Re: Direct Drive?
« Reply #32 on: July 04, 2021, 11:01:02 pm »
Has a 30:1 gear reduction.

I'm not sure you have the step rate for that before complicating it with a bowden. ;)

Not sure I understand Monkeh. It's just a matter of increasing the E steps from something like 95 to around 415 (as people have been using) for the stepper. The speed into the bowden tube is no different than before, this just grips tighter and has more torque than the original Ender extruder. That's how it's used - there are plenty of demos of this type of extruder to look at. Can you clarify what you mean for me?
My friends say they're procrastinators. I say I've been meaning to tell them for years, but I just keep putting it off.
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: Direct Drive?
« Reply #33 on: July 05, 2021, 02:25:33 am »
Has a 30:1 gear reduction.

I'm not sure you have the step rate for that before complicating it with a bowden. ;)

Not sure I understand Monkeh. It's just a matter of increasing the E steps from something like 95 to around 415 (as people have been using) for the stepper. The speed into the bowden tube is no different than before, this just grips tighter and has more torque than the original Ender extruder. That's how it's used - there are plenty of demos of this type of extruder to look at. Can you clarify what you mean for me?

Just a slight magnitude error - it's a 3:1 reduction, not 30:1. That'd be, uh, a lot of steps. Also a really big gear.
 

Offline xrunner

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Re: Direct Drive?
« Reply #34 on: July 05, 2021, 02:31:24 am »

Just a slight magnitude error - it's a 3:1 reduction, not 30:1. That'd be, uh, a lot of steps. Also a really big gear.

Oh yea I made a mistake there. I thought I made a mistake once before in my life but it turned out that was an error.  :-DD
My friends say they're procrastinators. I say I've been meaning to tell them for years, but I just keep putting it off.
 

Offline Microdoser

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Re: Direct Drive?
« Reply #35 on: July 05, 2021, 09:35:03 am »
Has a 30:1 gear reduction.

I'm not sure you have the step rate for that before complicating it with a bowden. ;)

Not sure I understand Monkeh. It's just a matter of increasing the E steps from something like 95 to around 415 (as people have been using) for the stepper. The speed into the bowden tube is no different than before, this just grips tighter and has more torque than the original Ender extruder. That's how it's used - there are plenty of demos of this type of extruder to look at. Can you clarify what you mean for me?

Just a slight magnitude error - it's a 3:1 reduction, not 30:1. That'd be, uh, a lot of steps. Also a really big gear.

Or a couple of small ones.
 

Offline xrunner

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Re: Direct Drive?
« Reply #36 on: July 09, 2021, 12:37:56 pm »
Received the BMG clone dual gear extruder. Seems to be of good quality construction. We shall see ...
My friends say they're procrastinators. I say I've been meaning to tell them for years, but I just keep putting it off.
 

Offline xrunner

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Re: Direct Drive?
« Reply #37 on: July 11, 2021, 09:10:31 pm »
The BMG clone (clear) dual-gear extruder is now installed using a printable mounting plate. There didn't seem to be a clear statement as to which was the filament "input" port. I found it was installed both ways in the wild, and from observation I did not see any difference it would make. I did observe that the the bowden coupler closer to the release-lever was pressed in and not easily removable. The other one was simply screwed into an aluminum fitting. That was the one I used as the output port. Also, this was nice because I didn't have to invert the direction of the stepper motor. The recommended E steps value was 415, but after calibrating that parameter, I found that 427 was the number for this machine. Other than that it went smoothly.

The results certainly are no worse than the previous single gear extruder. Both models looked good (printed at 0.2 mm). But of course I was looking for more than that. The model produced by the original extruder is on the left.

I will say that, yes, it does yield better results in places. Using the benchy model, the bottom first layer came out better. The back lettering was a little better. The top of the deck came out nicer. The light is reflecting from it as you see because of that nicer surface - not because of the placement of the light. The top of the bridge had a nicer surface, as well as the inside of the cargo box. The rear window was a little bit more rounded. The layer lines looked a little more precise.

So, I'd have to give this extruder a passing grade and I'll keep it on the machine. At this point on this type of printer you aren't going to get many more eye-popping improvements. But for the small details, yes it does work better than the stock-style extruder.

If the Zesty folks get to the point of shipping their product, I'll do another face-off between this extruder and that one.
My friends say they're procrastinators. I say I've been meaning to tell them for years, but I just keep putting it off.
 
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