Author Topic: Altium Circuit Studio??  (Read 108515 times)

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Offline Lromine

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #200 on: April 15, 2015, 05:12:53 pm »
Hello Everyone, My name is Lawrence Romine, Director of New Business Development, here at Altium in San Diego. I am very pleased to let everyone know that we are now in Beta with v1.1 of CircuitStudio. We have been paying very close attention to the feedback from the evaluators, our initial customers, feedback via e14 support personnel, and social media channels. You guys can all expect to see this version released mid-May. Along with the typical maintenance one should expect for this product, we are adding the capabilities I've listed below to the toolset. Please know your participation in forums like EEVblog greatly assists us in getting the product fine tuned. Here's what's coming:

- Importers Updated - AD10 and older, Protel, PCAD (these are in addition to the Eagle/OrCAD/PADs importers in there now), and yes, that includes AD10 Board files
- Mixed Mode Simulation
- .STEP Export
- DXF Import

Again, we appreciate the dialogue! Keep it coming!
Lawrence Romine, Altium Inc.
 

Offline jmarkwolf

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #201 on: April 15, 2015, 07:14:41 pm »
Hello Everyone, My name is Lawrence Romine, Director of New Business Development, here at Altium in San Diego. I am very pleased to let everyone know that we are now in Beta with v1.1 of CircuitStudio. We have been paying very close attention to the feedback from the evaluators, our initial customers, feedback via e14 support personnel, and social media channels. You guys can all expect to see this version released mid-May. Along with the typical maintenance one should expect for this product, we are adding the capabilities I've listed below to the toolset. Please know your participation in forums like EEVblog greatly assists us in getting the product fine tuned. Here's what's coming:

- Importers Updated - AD10 and older, Protel, PCAD (these are in addition to the Eagle/OrCAD/PADs importers in there now), and yes, that includes AD10 Board files
- Mixed Mode Simulation
- .STEP Export
- DXF Import

Again, we appreciate the dialogue! Keep it coming!

Excellent news, indeed. Go, man go.
 

Offline Lromine

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #202 on: April 15, 2015, 08:31:31 pm »
Excellent news, indeed. Go, man go.
[/quote]

We very much appreciate your business and your loyalty to the Altium Brand, Mark!
Lawrence Romine, Altium Inc.
 

Offline DerekG

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #203 on: April 16, 2015, 03:19:19 am »
My name is Lawrence Romine, Director of New Business Development, here at Altium in San Diego.

Lawrence, it is good to see that Altium is keeping an eye on the comments here on EEVBlog.com

It is a shame that Altium felt it necessary to hassle Dave Jones about his website some time back.

As I'm sure you are aware, Dave's website gets more hits everyday than Altium manage on their own website.

As you Altium's "Director of New Business Development" will you kindly answer the following for us:

Is the development team spending:
A/ more time,
B/ the same amount of time,
C/ less time,
on CircuitMaker than on Circuit Studio?
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Offline Lromine

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #204 on: April 16, 2015, 10:21:28 pm »
Derek, et al, We have quite a large development team and those resources are allocated as needed across all our products.  Also, note that some IP is shared across our product range. So, not really an easy questions to answer. I can only assume that the motivation for your question is because you would like to know when CircuitMaker will be available. We have already announced publicly that CircuitMaker will be in Open Beta (available to anyone and everyone) on May 16th to coincide with the Bay Area Maker Faire

http://blog.circuitmaker.com/#Blogs/The-Road-to-Maker-Faire

Lawrence Romine, Altium Inc.
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #205 on: April 17, 2015, 02:55:55 pm »
Lawrence, I have some questions:

1- will CM have offline project storage without the need to share the project If one wants this?

2- if one worked well with CM, will he be good with CS (an AD)? i.e, the same (or close) menus, shortcuts,.... etc?

thanks for your support.
 

Offline Lromine

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #206 on: April 17, 2015, 05:11:00 pm »
VEGETA, There does seem to be some misconceptions in the storage area. So, I'm glad you asked. There is no local storage, cloud only. However, this does not mean that you will have to share those designs with anyone. Simply tick the box that says "private", and it is just that, private and not shared nor seen by anyone else in the community. That said, you can, however, set up "teams" of people and share/collaborate on designs with just the people in your team. As and for the consistency from CircuitMaker to CircuitStudio, absolutely yes. It is the same interface and, and therefore, any muscle memory you've developed will definitely be retained. As and for moving to Altium Designer from there, all these products share the Altium DNA. So, things like workflow, project structure, etc and, of course, your libraries and designs definitely do carry over. As well, we've made this easy for you via a credit should you decide to step-up from CircuitStudio to an Altium Designer Board license. That credit is now listed on both our website here http://www.circuitstudio.com/#how-to-buy and the e14 website here http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-73741



Lawrence Romine, Altium Inc.
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #207 on: April 17, 2015, 08:51:44 pm »
VEGETA, There does seem to be some misconceptions in the storage area. So, I'm glad you asked. There is no local storage, cloud only. However, this does not mean that you will have to share those designs with anyone. Simply tick the box that says "private", and it is just that, private and not shared nor seen by anyone else in the community. That said, you can, however, set up "teams" of people and share/collaborate on designs with just the people in your team. As and for the consistency from CircuitMaker to CircuitStudio, absolutely yes. It is the same interface and, and therefore, any muscle memory you've developed will definitely be retained. As and for moving to Altium Designer from there, all these products share the Altium DNA. So, things like workflow, project structure, etc and, of course, your libraries and designs definitely do carry over. As well, we've made this easy for you via a credit should you decide to step-up from CircuitStudio to an Altium Designer Board license. That credit is now listed on both our website here http://www.circuitstudio.com/#how-to-buy and the e14 website here http://www.element14.com/community/docs/DOC-73741

Well, thanks! that was a new info there. There was a big misunderstanding by me and others about cloud-only. But I really prefer to have local storage option as it is essential. not always you have a connection and sometimes it is not good. cloud is nice, but local storage is a must in my opinion.

Nice to have that consistency between the 2 as most people who use CM will buy CS if they want to get a pro tool I guess. So, any idea now about the limitation of CM? Can one make a commercial board with it (regardless of it's size or importance)?

thanks.
 

Offline DerekG

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #208 on: April 18, 2015, 04:55:58 am »
So, any idea now about the limitation of CM? Can one make a commercial board with it (regardless of it's size or importance)?
You can find out more in the CircuitMaker thread:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/circuitmaker-dead/
I also sat between Elvis & Bigfoot on the UFO.
 

Offline miguelvp

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #209 on: April 18, 2015, 07:10:32 pm »
Actually you probably find out more here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/eda/circuit-maker-it-lives!/

Since the beta testers seem to be able to talk about CM now.

 

Offline PM33AUD

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #210 on: October 07, 2015, 03:45:01 pm »
I've been giving this software a good run through and figured I'd post some feedback.  I've also been evaluating Pulsonix, and DipTrace

I'm a long-time AD user so maybe that's some bias.  I'm doing commercial work now so I need to purchase my own tools.  AD is so far out of my price range, I can't even consider it.

Circuit Studio is still a bit pricey but my heavens, it's far better than Diptrace which is going to cost me something like 600USD.  Diptrace is not even close to being in the same league in my experience thus far and I guess the pricing ensures that.  The plus with DT is that the team is extremely responsive and that tool will grow quickly, I'm sure.  For me, CS is still roughly worth it, considering the alternatives.  It's also on sale now so that helps.  If they get it under 2k, it's a no-brainer.  Pulsonix has been tough for me.  I've given it it's fair due and I've tried to ignore best I could what I know about AD.  Pulsonix is very nice but it's just not as nice as the AD stuff as far as polish and general usability is concerned.  The 3D is dodgy and a little outdated when compared to CS or AD which is very much integrated.  I also had a bit of trouble with the Pulsonix import process.  If CS wasn't around, I'd say Pulsonix would be my 'AD alternative.' 

CS also has the benefit of being able to handle AD projects, schematics, libraries, and PCBs.  And AD can read all the CS stuffs.  This is nice to know for consulting work where folks are more likely to work in AD.

CS does have a lot of the AD stuff I thought it wouldn't.  I haven't run into any rule limitations thus far for how I normally scope things out.  I do miss my shortcuts but there are shortcuts for nearly everything and just have to relearn (or unlearn!) them.

Anyways, I figured I'd post my thoughts on the software.  It is a *very* good tool.
 

Offline jmarkwolf

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #211 on: October 07, 2015, 05:45:09 pm »
Thanks for the post PM33AUD.

My experience parallels yours.

Although I have checked out Diptrace, I had not tested Pulsonix.

I've been using Altium/Protel daily for almost 20 years and was not looking forward to learning a new package when I no longer had access to Altium (retirement/consulting).

Circuit Studio fills the bill nicely for me.
 

Offline DerekG

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #212 on: October 08, 2015, 12:47:00 am »
CS does have a lot of the AD stuff I thought it wouldn't.

Thanks for your comparisons.

Does Circuit Studio miss out on anything (that you would use) that is offered in Altium?
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Offline PM33AUD

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #213 on: October 08, 2015, 01:30:13 am »
CS does have a lot of the AD stuff I thought it wouldn't.

Thanks for your comparisons.

Does Circuit Studio miss out on anything (that you would use) that is offered in Altium?

Yes, it does.  So far I've missed dxf export, slotted holes (this one actually is a bit baffling why it's missing, to be honest), some handy board insight options, SMD rules (currently in progress on some workarounds), 'Shift-F', rooms (no multichannel PCB rooms), scripted filtering, SVN support, and some KB shortcuts are missing (and the ones that are there are weird... H12, HHH, nothing for move selection commands, no 'jump to', etc..).  Those are the main ones.  All of these have workarounds so haven't slowed me down all that much.  I'm still only 3 weeks in so it's possible I've missed some things.

I haven't done a multichannel PCB design since I've been using CS.  For me, that one is going to hurt the most and by a great margin of pain.  For that, I'd probably go to the local hacker spot which has a commercial copy of AD and just do it on that.

I will also say there are a few things that are there that I originally though were missing.  One example is 'update from PCB libraries' which was an option available from the PCB document in AD.  Now it's only done from the library itself.  In other cases, I think there are some bugs but that's not really anything new to AD folks  :).  The documentation says Shift F, which I used a ton in AD, is there but it doesn't work.  I can still do the same things by using the filter window albeit a bit slower.  I am trying to figure out how to get what I call a scripted filter to work in CS... it seems ppl end up hiring me for my ability to do a design then spin off an assembled one-off in a very short time (I love poor planning!).  So when placing SMD components 'manually', I need to be sure there are no mistakes.  I usually copy all RefDes directly from the BOM to the 'InComponent' argument which will highlight everything I need to place for that BOM line.  Since I'd been doing that, I've never made a placement mistake, which is a worry when placing 0402 and 0603 sized parts that have no markings.  Anyways, I'll see if I can figure that one out.

I think some scale back is reasonable considering the price.  I do think some things are silly not to have in any PCB package (the slotted holes one is an eg.).  But all in all, none of these missing items are worth paying 3-4 times what is already really at the limit of my budget.  If they start putting some of this stuff in, it just makes CS better.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2015, 01:35:11 am by PM33AUD »
 

Online Bud

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #214 on: October 08, 2015, 04:06:53 am »
Did they still go with the stupid ribbon type GUI which the first trial version had ?
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Offline PM33AUD

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #215 on: October 08, 2015, 04:10:23 am »
Did they still go with the stupid ribbon type GUI which the first trial version had ?

Yes!  But I hide that ugly monster 98% of the time and just use the shortcuts.  When you hit a shortcut it pops up but when the command is completed it goes back away.  I never used any icons and whatnot in AD either so differences there don't really bother me!
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #216 on: October 08, 2015, 10:30:48 am »
So is it worth it to learn CS instead of AD? are there companies that actually bought it and will stick to it? because if someone wants to learn PCB design like myself in the near future, he must know the tools used in the industry he aim for.
 

Online Bud

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #217 on: October 08, 2015, 08:10:37 pm »
Did anyone else receive a 15% discount offer for CM from A ?
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Offline PM33AUD

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #218 on: October 13, 2015, 03:37:58 am »
So is it worth it to learn CS instead of AD? are there companies that actually bought it and will stick to it? because if someone wants to learn PCB design like myself in the near future, he must know the tools used in the industry he aim for.

I think if you learn CS, you will have no problems with AD.  That's definitely not the issue.  Will it be around for awhile?  I don't know.  I am still in evaluation of CS and this is one of my concerns.  I tried asking Newark what the deal was and if they had any sales figures but no go.  It seems they are still playing with pricing which makes me feel they are trying to find the sweet spot and don't know otherwise.  CS is in a weird spot.  It's still too expensive for any hobbyist and any professional has to make the decision of whether or not to risk 1) CS being around 'x' years from now, and 2) whether cross-talk between CS and AD will be maintained.  All it takes is one update to no longer allow import of CS PCB files and then you're not able to consult for anyone who wants the more common 'AD' projects on hand.  If I were paying a consultant, I'd probably request the same considering how new CS is. 

Now for some speculation, which is absolutely just that.   :)  If you were to put CS under ~1.5k USD, I think now you start to dip into the hobbyist sector and surely into 'pro-byists' - folks who do hobby work but at a high level... or who already have jobs and just want nice tools.  At 3k or wherever it is now, you are really ruling out any hobbyists and they will spend the extra time learning/using an inferior tool simply because the cost isn't justified.  You will say things like "Is CS 'N' times better than diptrace?"  "Will it ever save me thousands of dollars?"  "If so, how long would it take to get that savings back?"  "Also, how do I justify maintenance?"  New CAD tools every 5 years is a good rule of thumb.  "Can I support that as well or will I just have to use outdated tools to recoup the initial expense?"  For a hobbyist, you can get a nice 2nd hand T&M rig for that kind of $ and hardware is always easier to justify.  If you're making $ with CS, then the price isn't so bad.  But professionals need to know the tool will be supported and will be compatible with other tools as requested by their clients.  It's also missing some really basic features that make me think they aren't targeting the tool for professional use.  So right now, it's in a weird purgatory of sorts.  Out of reach of the hobbyist 'sinners' and not safe enough for the pro 'saints.'   >:D >:D >:D

The other interesting thing I've noticed on the AD side of things is that it has a ton of stuff many folks will never use.  There is limited upgradability for it.  You don't buy add-ons like you do with other softwares (Cadence, etc...)  This means it's just more expensive because it's all in there.  Before the lower cost option of something like CS, you had to be a professional to justify paying for AD.  Because of AD's very high cost (and it's gone way up from when I remember it being about half what it is now), I'm sure they are worried about CS stealing away some AD customers.  If they make CS cheaper, the switch gets more and more appealing.  So I'm sure part of the decision on pricing (and feature limiting) CS was careful enough not to loose a ton of customers paying 3x what CS costs.  That's a big hit.

What they should have done, in my ignorant and completely over-reaching opinion, is simply made AD what it is.  An excellent PCB layout tool.  The FPGA/embedded stuff has been there for quite some time.  Never once thought to use it instead of the Xilinx or Altera tools I've used that work very well.  But you pay for that.  Or high speed tools.  Some people don't need that.  But you pay for it.  And so on... AD should just be released in a 'standard' form which would be very similar to CS in feature set.  And then you just bill up from there.  Each add on you pay for and each has subscription/support fees.  If you need it, you have to buy it and will.  But why buy everything?!?  I'm sure they've looked at this model.  Many other competitors do just this.

I also wondered why companies didn't price software products based on revenue.  I'm in this weird spot where all of the powerful tools, which would help a startup immensely, are the same price whether I make negative dollars or millions of dollars.  The sad part is that we find our alternates and will stick with them far past the point in the future of being able to afford 'better' tools simply due to legacy.  You could just send a tax document :)  I guess you'd get too much exploitation or something. 

Enough jibber-jabber for me!
« Last Edit: October 13, 2015, 03:40:26 am by PM33AUD »
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #219 on: November 01, 2015, 05:45:56 am »
Quote
Before the lower cost option of something like CS, you had to be a professional to justify paying for AD.

Well, you hit the truth there. CS is meant to be a very efficient lower cost tool that does just the important stuff which is PCB design. If one need other stuff, he can look elsewhere. < they defined it like this in their video.

Now, I am not an expert in PCB design market but surely I want to be one in the future... I really liked CS and think it is a true professional tool without any doubt. However, if I want to get into PCB design industry and have a career there... how to do that? is CS a good choice?

I saw that AD is like the industry standard out there so any PCB designer must know how to use it. And from what I read here and in other places, CS seems to be very near to AD. Meaning, if one masters CS, he can use AD with no problems. Is that correct?

I still have to get into PCB design industry but I don't know where and how to start. I see people actually buy a license for themselves of eagle/diptrace/cs... while the companies they work in have their own licenses. That is weird to me. what about consulting? how is it done here?

thanks
« Last Edit: November 01, 2015, 10:50:02 am by VEGETA »
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #220 on: November 02, 2015, 11:42:45 am »
I tried CS on my weak laptop (HP ProBook 4510s) and it keeps telling me "out of memory"! this is just to load a component from a library! meaning all core2due laptops are nearly useless (I know they are too old and retarded now, so it is not really a con).
 

Offline blueskull

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #221 on: November 02, 2015, 11:51:53 am »
I tried CS on my weak laptop (HP ProBook 4510s) and it keeps telling me "out of memory"! this is just to load a component from a library! meaning all core2due laptops are nearly useless (I know they are too old and retarded now, so it is not really a con).

Altium software are always resource hunger. When loading a large PCB layout, even with the latest Intel integrated GPU it still lags, and I'm talking about its 2D mode!
 

Offline VEGETA

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #222 on: November 02, 2015, 01:26:29 pm »
I tried CS on my weak laptop (HP ProBook 4510s) and it keeps telling me "out of memory"! this is just to load a component from a library! meaning all core2due laptops are nearly useless (I know they are too old and retarded now, so it is not really a con).

Altium software are always resource hunger. When loading a large PCB layout, even with the latest Intel integrated GPU it still lags, and I'm talking about its 2D mode!

I plan to buy an Asus laptop which has at least 2GB GDDR5 nVIDIA GPU card with 8 GB ram and i7-quad-core cpu along with 17.3' screen. If this is not capable of running these software on full capacity... then I will just retire!
 


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