Author Topic: Altium Circuit Studio??  (Read 111116 times)

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Offline hikariuk

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #75 on: February 04, 2015, 05:00:43 am »
You can add it to your basket and get next day delivery.....I wonder what UPS will deliver!

For that price a gold plated thank you note, I hope.
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Offline c4757p

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #76 on: February 04, 2015, 05:17:33 am »
That's actually been in Kicad for years. You don't have to use CvPCB (and I don't, because you're right, it's stupid.)

Each symbol has a "footprint" field, which you can populate with whatever you like. And recent versions of the symbol editor have a button you can press which will open the list of footprint libraries, so you can select the library and then select the footprint you want (graphically!) and then the footprint and the library it's in will show up in the symbol.

+1

actually, +42

KiCad's default libraries are stupid. God-awful in every way. KiCad itself is fine. Assign your footprints in the libs. You can modify them in the schematic too, and leave cvpcb to die.

(I read a somewhat recent bit on the mailing list suggesting they want to do away with cvpcb too, so that's good.)

Quote
The formats are versioned. There has been discussion about this. One issue is: a user creates a board design with an older version of the tools. And then he shares the design with someone using a newer version, who saves it, which automatically upgrades the file format version. That friend then sends the design back, and now the originator can't open the design because his version of Kicad is too old.

You misunderstand, I think (or I do :-\). Version control in the file format. Version control of changes to the schematic/PCB. I think that'd be really nice, but probably more of a "stretch goal" considering all the other things they need to get done first.
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Offline Bassman59

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #77 on: February 04, 2015, 07:12:08 pm »
The formats are versioned. There has been discussion about this. One issue is: a user creates a board design with an older version of the tools. And then he shares the design with someone using a newer version, who saves it, which automatically upgrades the file format version. That friend then sends the design back, and now the originator can't open the design because his version of Kicad is too old.

You misunderstand, I think (or I do :-\). Version control in the file format. Version control of changes to the schematic/PCB. I think that'd be really nice, but probably more of a "stretch goal" considering all the other things they need to get done first.

I think maybe we're both confused :)

If ehughes was asking about version control of changes to the schematic/PCB, then it's already there, because the files are text and compatible with Your Favorite Source Code Control System. OK, diff-ing can be tricky depending on whether the file is entirely rewritten and things are moved around.
 

Offline FivePoint0

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #78 on: February 04, 2015, 10:27:06 pm »
Has anyone downloaded the trial now it's available?  Any comments on it?

What do you not get with CS that you do get with AD?

I love extra features but if this could mean dealing with Premier Farnell instead of Premier EDA I would be over the moon!
 

Offline FivePoint0

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #79 on: February 04, 2015, 10:58:25 pm »
Couldn't install it:-
 

Offline Rigby

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #80 on: February 05, 2015, 12:36:15 am »
They must be in a real hurry with this.  Their documentation pages are mostly empty.

edit: I was able to install it, no problem.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 01:07:12 am by Rigby »
 

Offline ludzinc

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #81 on: February 05, 2015, 01:47:15 am »
Tried installing Circuit Studio trial at work today, but Corporate Rules stopped the fun.

So I enquired about an Circuit Studio, and Circuit Maker, and got this response:

Hi Simon,

I have been told very soon it will be released that is Circuit Studio is scheduled for release early Feb and then following that circuit maker will come out just after that but i just can't commit on an exact date until the announcement will go out just in case it moves.

Thanks for your comments it will be exciting times for Altium and obviously more options for our clients.

Best regards,



Viktor Haddo

Technical Sales Manager,
APAC

____________________
Altium APAC

3 Minna Close
Belrose NSW 2085 Australia


I'll try installing Circuit Studio at home tonight, and I wait for Circuit Maker with baited breath.
 

Offline corax

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #82 on: February 05, 2015, 04:42:47 am »
Couldn't install it:-

I got that error too; then I realized that right before that, the login name/password was auto-filled with my Altium Designer credentials (I already have Altium installed on this machine).

I see from the download page that they are supposed to email you a password for the trial after you fill out the contact form.  Guess I have to wait for that to show up.

Edit:  Got it set up and working.  I was able to play around with it for a little while on the schematic side- I wasn't able to try out the PCB side yet since I installed it in a VirtualBox VM and the PCB wouldn't render (inadequate implementation of DirectX in VirtualBox, I guess- AD has the same issue).  Will play around with the PCB editor tomorrow.

A few random observations:

- So far it looks a LOT like Altium Designer, except for the new ribbon interface at the top.

- It uses .SchDoc, .PcbDoc, etc. files; I was able to open a couple of my Altium projects in it without trouble.  So it looks like it uses the same file formats natively.  *Edit: I was wrong about .PcbDoc; appears that the PCB files are incompatible.

- The schematic editor wants to keep all of the wires connected to a part when you move a part- wires are stretched/redrawn to maintain connections.
Not sure if there's a way to disable that or change the default.  Control-click-dragging a component avoids keeping all of the connections.  This is reversed by default from AD's behavior.

- The gerber output generation dialog looks similar to the Altium outjob screen, but simplified.
- File output seems to be native .SchDoc (etc) format only; save-as only allows the native file type and I didn't see an export option.
- File import appears limited to Eagle files.
- Tabbed document display seems the same as AD, as does the projects tree panel on the left and the libraries pop-out panel on the right.
- A new panel called 'Comments' appears to be for collaboration.
- Most of the preference pages for schematic and PCB look like pared down versions of the AD equivalents

The whole thing looks/feels very much like a limited and slightly modified version of AD, certainly not a whole new product.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 07:18:03 am by corax »
 

Offline tan98010

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #83 on: February 05, 2015, 07:05:13 am »
The PCB document is not compatible with Altium, the ALTIUM extension is .PcbDoc, but the CircuitStudio is .CSPcbDoc Oh noooo |O
 

Offline DerekG

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #84 on: February 05, 2015, 07:22:34 am »
The PCB document is not compatible with Altium, the ALTIUM extension is .PcbDoc, but the CircuitStudio is .CSPcbDoc Oh noooo |O
What happens if you simply change the extension to .PcbDoc?
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Offline corax

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #85 on: February 05, 2015, 07:27:58 am »
The PCB document is not compatible with Altium, the ALTIUM extension is .PcbDoc, but the CircuitStudio is .CSPcbDoc Oh noooo |O
What happens if you simply change the extension to .PcbDoc?

I tried changing a .PcbDoc to .CSPcbDoc, but CS wouldn't open it.

CS DOES recognize .PcbDoc files in a PCB project, but if you click the file in the Projects panel, it launches AD to open the file.
 

Offline tan98010

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #86 on: February 05, 2015, 07:42:50 am »
well maybe these are the trick that ALTIUM use to protect their "premium customer" who pays alot........
 

Offline wreeve

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #87 on: February 05, 2015, 07:44:32 am »
Does it import Protel .Sch and .PCB files?
 

Offline DerekG

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #88 on: February 05, 2015, 07:55:06 am »
We know that Altium (in conjunction with Farnell) will be shortly offering an upgrade path from Circuit Studio users to Altium Designer.

I'm assuming therefore that the next release of AD will read/import Circuit Studio files without an issue.

I also sat between Elvis & Bigfoot on the UFO.
 

Offline corax

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #89 on: February 05, 2015, 08:00:09 am »
Does it import Protel .Sch and .PCB files?

No to both; I tried it.  Didn't recognize either format.

I imagine that AD will eventually be able to import PCB files from CS.  But maybe Altium doesn't want to provide a less expensive alternative to AD users who maybe don't need all the fluff and are maybe tired of $2000/year subscriptions.

It seems that there would be some market for a less expensive tool for users with AD experience, maybe at a previous job, etc., but not being able to open your existing PCB designs would probably kill it for many such users. 

Maybe an AD PCB importer will be a paid option or something.
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 08:05:50 am by corax »
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #90 on: February 05, 2015, 08:09:47 am »
The installer SUCKS!!! I tried to log in with my altium account, and this attemption RENDERED MY ACCOUNT UNUSABLE. Now I can not even log in to my AD14!!!

It says my account is an invalid organisation. I will call Altium tomorrow, and see if they can recovery my account.
 

Offline corax

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #91 on: February 05, 2015, 08:21:46 am »
Looks like there IS also an OrCad importer/exporter.
From the 'Home' screen, there's an extensions/updates option.  The extensions/updates section looks identical to AD from what I can tell, with
tabs for Installed, Purchased, and Updates.

From there, under 'Configuration', is a section for selecting/downloading importers/exporters, same as in AD.

The only options in there right now are Eagle, Orcad, and STEP. I suppose that this may change.

The extensions section also includes a subsection for 'Hardware Devices', which in AD refers to the FPGA stuff but is empty here.
 

Offline wreeve

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #92 on: February 05, 2015, 08:25:32 am »
I am not being funny but this isn't a BETA? I expect an out of the box finished product?
« Last Edit: February 05, 2015, 11:15:47 am by wreeve »
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #93 on: February 05, 2015, 08:38:14 am »
This is a 3000 usd beta. I found numerous gui bugs in it, and many crucial functions for studios are not there.

1. I can not find global preferences, only project options.
2. This thing can not do any simulations, from basic spice to high end electromagnetic sims.
3. The file format is creepy. You don't want a thing that doesn't work with your existing packages. It accepts schdoc, but not schpcb.
4. Since it is already 3k usd, why not spend another 3k to buy a real AD?

Thumbs down.
 

Offline corax

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #94 on: February 05, 2015, 08:53:57 am »
This is a 3000 usd beta. I found numerous gui bugs in it, and many crucial functions for studios are not there.

1. I can not find global preferences, only project options.

Global preferences are under the 'File' menu; at the bottom of the menu, there's a 'System Preferences' button.

Agreed on other points though.
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #95 on: February 05, 2015, 09:01:17 am »
Yep, I found the global preferences.
 

Offline ludzinc

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #96 on: February 05, 2015, 11:00:30 am »
I too have been tinkering, and I wonder how different the PCB formats are.  Perhaps a little hex editing might make files compatible?

Anyway - my observations so far:

Fast to load than AD, but so it should be.  Still shows as DXP.EXE in the task manager though :)
Loads existing Altium projects, can open / edit libs, schdocs.  NOT PCBDOC.
Wont load CAM files from AD
Hotkeys are a mess.  Some you are used to from AD work, some don't.
i.e. "select all connected" (CTRL-H) works.
ZA / ZB (Zoom All, Zoom Board) don't work.  It's right click and hunt time.
PT (Place inTeractive Routing (aka Place Track) DOESN'T WORK.  You have to hit the Route icon on the ribbon.  EVERY. SINGLE. TIME.

That's a deal breaker for me, right there.

Generated new pcb quick - imported using libs as defined in existing sch files

Option to change colours to AD colours.  Red and Blue top / bottom layers FTW!  THe light blue / lighter blue defaults of Circuit Studio is stupid.

CANT DEFINE BOARD SHAPE FROM SELECTED OBJECTS.  NOOOOO
CANT IMPORT DWG/DXF - arrrgh (i.e. case drawing)

CAN define polygon pour from selected items.  Oh come on!
Netlist tools are there - win - i.e you can colour individual nets, hide / show selected ones.
Hierarchical sheets work, but no rooms, so multichannel duplication isn't there.  Old school copy paste it is hen.

To be frank, these are limitations that I'd accept for Circuit Maker, not a paid tool. 

Come on Altium, let us edit the hotkeys at least!!

 

Offline ludzinc

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #97 on: February 05, 2015, 11:06:39 am »

- The schematic editor wants to keep all of the wires connected to a part when you move a part- wires are stretched/redrawn to maintain connections.
Not sure if there's a way to disable that or change the default.  Control-click-dragging a component avoids keeping all of the connections.  This is reversed by default from AD's behavior.


I can confirm this.  I can also confirm that I made a whole bunch of short circuits moving ports around.  Poor hotkeys in PCB and stupid wiring in SCH are a deal breaker for me at the moment.

Let's see what the update brings.  I'll be passing my comments onto Altium from work tomorrow.
 

Offline ludzinc

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #98 on: February 05, 2015, 11:08:38 am »
Couldn't install it:-


Had the same issue from behind the corporate firewall at work.  The installer is an initial 8MB download, that then grabs a further 500MB to complete the installation.

I hate it when programmes do that.

They should offer a stand alone installer - you need it install a license file anyway...
 

Online blueskull

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Re: Altium Circuit Studio??
« Reply #99 on: February 05, 2015, 11:14:37 am »
Unfortunately you can not do any (easy) hex magics to make it schdoc compatible. Both schdoc and csschdoc are zip files, and if you have ever extracted any of them, you can discover that the file hierarchy of the 2 file types are NOT the same. schdoc names directories in human readable format, while csschdoc uses guid.
 


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