Altium Designer new pricing model and high end / low end tool in development

[peter.mitchell]

there is a lot that I want to see in altium, and it has a UI i quite like, this is what keeps me paying the subscription.

Only real things I'd like to see are;
multi board designs better supported
support for multi board tools/features, eg, board to board interconnects with mapped nets in schematics, mechanical alignment of boards
integrated library sorting - basically sort libraries in the way f_e sorts his, but do it within the program, not as separate libraries for each thing
an option to do a side-by side footprint library/schematic library so you can check your pins easier (though, you can do this with multiple windows)
an easier way to make non-polarized passives that auto pin swap
a better way to manage vias in pads in footprint, and polygonal pads
better support for multiple grounds

Even so, it isn't too important to me; the tool does everything I need it to do so far (aside from the multiple boards)
I'm not fussed if they don't bring out a low cost version, i'm already paying for a sub and i don't mind it so it doesn't bother me.

[free_electron]

Multiple boards is being worked on. They gave a demo on the users group using a trick.
Simply define a flex layer (which you do not export in the gerber). Draw the connects there so the tool now knows this pin of this connector is electrically connected to that pin.

Then do your two or more boards . In board planner, set your folding lines and altium will verify mechafically that the connectors do align when the board is being stacked.

Schematically you create two top levels with hierarchy. There is on pcb design holding all sub boards, and a flex layer to give the interconnect matrix.

Works like a champ.

[peter.mitchell]

Multiple boards is being worked on. They gave a demo on the users group using a trick.
Simply define a flex layer (which you do not export in the gerber). Draw the connects there so the tool now knows this pin of this connector is electrically connected to that pin.

Then do your two or more boards . In board planner, set your folding lines and altium will verify mechafically that the connectors do align when the board is being stacked.

Schematically you create two top levels with hierarchy. There is on pcb design holding all sub boards, and a flex layer to give the interconnect matrix.

Works like a champ.

Holy cow, thanks! I had never thought of that! Legend!

[halfwalker]

Kicad doesnt come close to altium. even after all the work will be done in the Cern roadmap it doesnt come close

Absolutely agree.  Same goes for Eagle, nowhere close to Altium.  But look at the user-base for Eagle, simply because it's "good enough" and free for what they're doing.  Once CERN gets closer, it too will be "good enough", and while we may pine and long for the cool features in big-boy Altium, we'll sigh and turn back to our Eagle/KiCAD setups, in many cases based purely on price.

What hobbyist/make who's been playing with Arduino for a while and wants to branch out to his/her own designs and board is going to pay the Altium price ?  They'll check it out, go "WOW, this is cool, I want this" and then have a coronary at the price.  "Eagle ?  KiCAD ?  FREE ?  Sign me up !"  And bang goes another potential convert, who is also going to tell his friends or blog-readers "I use the free version of xxxxx" so now THEY'RE going to check it out.

Altium sees the low-end as of minimal income-impact.  At face value, that's probably accurate.  But as Dave said in his video, going after the low-end is virtually NO COST to Altium.  And by sheer gravity, it will pull others along, and lead to more seats sold.

It's FREE MARKET SHARE, and they're leaving it on the table.  "Meh, no thanks".

[DerekG]

Kicad doesn't come close to Altium.

Fully agree. People are comparing mandarins with oranges. With Kicad you can't even change the background colour of your pcb. You can only have black!

I find that a black background when working on pcbs for hours on end provides too much contrast for my eyes. I prefer a dark grey with black through hole pads ............... but perhaps that's just me.

[Mechatrommer]

Altium sees the low-end as of minimal income-impact.

i dont know how they calculated it. maybe in their study there are 100 potential, high grade engineers or big organizations. but there are 1000 nonpotential hobbiests. since Altium is $5K a pop (cheapest) , and eagle is what? $500 a pop? (highest) so altium saw the $500K market, and decided the other similar $500K market as not worth it? too many support workload for 1K customers instead of just 100 customers? etc. or really the hobbiests market is like 100 potential customers only? the rest of the hobbiests are just white noise generators? using only limited free version or hoping for the cracked version to come out. hmmm Altium maybe right!?

[T3sl4co1l]

Well, the big-buck strategy seems to be working for some people... *cough* Mentor Graphics

[DerekG]

I was looking at this link which indicates that Altium reduced their price of AD in April 2009 to US$3995.

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1311978

This must have been too cheap to keep the directors & the design staff in a job (& the shareholders happy) as the price has almost doubled in just 5 years.

[AlfBaz]

I'm sure I can remember Protel 99se being around the AUD$13k mark

[Kean]

Interesting that Altium have just announced a price rise from July 2014, up by AU$2,000 to over AU$9,000 for a new licence.

Maybe this is to make room for a low end product...  or maybe doing software development in China isn't as cheap as they'd hoped. 

Subscriptions costs haven't increased thankfully. 

[Mechatrommer]

its worth the same as my mini car there that i used to work daily. buying altium is like buying another car sigh.

[EEVblog]

Maybe this is to make room for a low end product...  or maybe doing software development in China isn't as cheap as they'd hoped. 

The move to China failed as far as getting cheap (or any) programming talent. They now do a lot (majority possibly) of development in the Ukraine last I heard.

[EEVblog]

I'm sure I can remember Protel 99se being around the AUD$13k mark

Altium at one point did hit the US$12K mark or thereabouts before they decided to slash the price by about 70%. It has slowly crept back up since then.

[Macbeth]

Maybe this is to make room for a low end product...  or maybe doing software development in China isn't as cheap as they'd hoped. 

The move to China failed as far as getting cheap (or any) programming talent. They now do a lot (majority possibly) of development in the Ukraine last I heard.

It's not THE Ukraine, it is simply Ukraine, just like THE Australia is actually known as our former Prison Colony.   

However,  ,moving into Ukraine just as it's the spark plug of the next World War is a pretty bold move for Altium, I'll give them that!   

[EEVblog]

However,  ,moving into Ukraine just as it's the spark plug of the next World War is a pretty bold move for Altium, I'll give them that!   

As I understand it, when the company moved to China, Altium had an key programer who wanted to move back to home, and used the opportunity to set up a programming division there. They found they could get good cheap and talented programmers there.
China on the other hand, they found out the hard way that whilst you can get good programmers there, they are not cheap, and they are not loyal either. So even if you can find them and afford them, they don't stay long. So as I now understand it, the bulk of the core programming is done in (not the) Ukraine, with a few in China, and one or two possibly still left in the US. China does a lot of the grunt work like libraries, that used to be done in the original Tasmanian division (maybe a few left there?).

[Macbeth]

Aww, bugger. Reminds me I just decided to get into Qt programming for Nokia Symbian, the dev stuff HQ'd in Australia, then the bastards destroyed traditional Nokia in favour of shitty Windows Mobile CE/Phone/ whatever. What a fucking waste of my life that was. Sheesh. Thankfully only a week or two.

I never knew Altium was Tasmanian? Damn! I hope those little Taz Devils are on their way to recovery from all that mouth cancer and stuff (crazy blighters keep biting each other in sex game stuff but spread a terrible disease, makes me sad)

By the bye,

From my experience programmers and electronic engineers from the former Eastern Bloc countries are excellent. Why on earth we bring in Indians on "skilled visas", etc., when they have clearly only got the job by cheating using braindump.com. testking, etc. is beyond my understanding. We have plenty of unemployed graduates in this country.

I've had to deal with these teams both in India and when they are brought over to the UK. A lot of them are young and cry for home as they realise passing a testking does not make them a MCSD. But they can't go home, because their parents have paid thousands of rupees for them to be "the best IT guy ever" to the agent. It is nothing more than endentured/slave labour.

 

... I think I need to go to bed...

[Mechatrommer]

From my experience programmers and electronic engineers from the former Eastern Bloc countries are excellent. Why on earth we bring in Indians on "skilled visas", etc., when they have clearly only got the job by cheating using braindump.com. testking, etc. is beyond my understanding. We have plenty of unemployed graduates in this country.

same here, employment of immigrants where there are still lot of local talents unemployed. i can think of 2 things... one is immigrants are cheap and they are willing to work cheap. cheap is your definition, in their country (your currency) its not cheap. second, is local are too picky, they want a good job in the aircon, and to get paid premium...

[zapta]

same here, employment of immigrants where there are still lot of local talents unemployed. i can think of 2 things... one is immigrants are cheap and they are willing to work cheap. cheap is your definition, in their country (your currency) its not cheap. second, is local are too picky, they want a good job in the aircon, and to get paid premium...

or third, the immigrants are the top talents at their countries and they beat the left-over locals hands down.

[AlfBaz]

So, to summerise, not only is altium not releasing a cheaper feature limited version, they're upping the price of their current offering, withholding content by making you use their vault and charging yearly subscriptions for bug fixes that would otherwise render the product "not fit for purpose"

[DerekG]

So, to summerise, not only is altium not releasing a cheaper feature limited version, they're upping the price of their current offering, withholding content by making you use their vault and charging yearly subscriptions for bug fixes that would otherwise render the product "not fit for purpose"

I could not have explained it any better.

As I have said in several of my previous posts, I do not like Altium the software nor do I like Altium the Corporation. Perhaps others are slowly coming around to also see my point of view.

[gregariz]

Why on earth we bring in Indians on "skilled visas", etc., when they have clearly only got the job by cheating using braindump.com. testking, etc. is beyond my understanding. We have plenty of unemployed graduates in this country.

There's no shortage of engineers in the west and hasn't been for many years. The only shortage is in cheap engineers. There's also plenty of older/underemployed engineers out there who have fallen under the bus in various waves of industry shutdowns.

[techydude]

So, to summerise, not only is altium not releasing a cheaper feature limited version, they're upping the price of their current offering, withholding content by making you use their vault and charging yearly subscriptions for bug fixes that would otherwise render the product "not fit for purpose"

I could not have explained it any better.

As I have said in several of my previous posts, I do not like Altium the software nor do I like Altium the Corporation. Perhaps others are slowly coming around to also see my point of view.

so what's your poison of choice?

[DerekG]

As I have said in several of my previous posts, I do not like Altium the software nor do I like Altium the Corporation. Perhaps others are slowly coming around to also see my point of view.

so what's your poison of choice?

As most forum members know, I own Altium 6.9 & the current version of DipTrace. I am currently using Altium 14 (supplied by an outside company that I'm doing some design work for) & 18 months ago I worked on a 4 month project using Labcenter's Proteus design software (also supplied by an outside company that I was completing some design work for).

These days I am finding more companies supply their own copy of the software for their new designs as this gives them complete control over the finished format. They then advertise for contractors who are familiar with the software on offer. It also means they have no issues later on with contractors using unregistered software.

My thoughts:

1/ Altium 14 has improved some of the productivity features over 6.9 & the screen drivers have been further improved (however both versions work fine under Windows 7 Professional). It has the steepest learning curve for new comers but is also probably the most powerful software in the 6K to 10K price range.

2/ DipTrace is much faster & easier to move from the Schematic to PCB than Altium & the auto-placer is quick to set up & painless to use & actually does a great job. The autorouter works fine [but freerouting does a better job & is used just the same in DipTrace as the Spectra autorouter which is excellent (gives pretty much the same results as the Altium autorouter-sometimes even better]. DipTrace costs less than US$1000 which is pretty good value-but they do need to work on their screen interface, components libraries & cut/copy/paste clipboard. A new beta version addresses some of these but currently it has some placement/movement issues that need resolving.

I regularly export diptrace files (both schematic & pcb) into Altium (via the P-Cad export filter) with excellent results. This lets me finish off some specific layout functions to the pcb that Diptrace does not offer.

3/ I was pleasantly surprised with the ease of use & the power of Proteus. It has a straight forward menu interface, good screen drivers & was actually a pleasure to use. The pin limited versions start at around US$250 & rise to US$2000 for the unlimited pin version. It is definitely more powerful & polished than DipTrace & has fewer bugs in it.

The most important thing is to determine what you require of the software. Many people purchase Altium & then never utilise its more powerful features. Some people squibble & buy DipTrace (& similar software) & then spend a lot more time on manual tasks that would have been much quicker/easier in Altium.

Many people think they will require unlimited pin versions, then find that they are only designing pcbs with 50 to 100 components.

Many people think they will make a living out of contracting their services, yet find it difficult to score those contracts (remember most companies that have on-going designs have their own employees doing this design work).

What would I do next time around?

If it were not the fact than many companies view Altium as the "defacto standard" (& hence demand the design be done in Altium) I would probably have just chosen Proteus ......... and saved more than $20K over the past 20 years.

This thread refers to a (possible) new Altium low cost version for those just starting out. I agree with Dave that Altium is allowing other pcb software companies to keep their foot in the door by not offering an entry level version. I would limit it to say 750-1000 pins but would still offer all the bells & whistles so that users are encouraged to move up once their designs become larger. This would push out many of the smaller guys who survive on low costs offerings at the bottom end.

Altium have made some pretty poor corporate decisions over the past 20 years (even refused to offer a demo package in the Protel days - how dumb is that!) ............ so a low cost limited version may never eventuate.

Just my thoughts of course. I hope the information helps.

[n3wbie]

These days I am finding more companies supply their own copy of the software for their new designs as this gives them complete control over the finished format. They then advertise for contractors who are familiar with the software on offer. It also means they have no issues later on with contractors using unregistered software.

I didn't realize licenses could be shared. How does that work, exactly?

[T3sl4co1l]

The company usually makes a computer available for you to work on, with access to the software and licenses.

Tim