Author Topic: Altium is killing off perpetual AD  (Read 32297 times)

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Offline thm_w

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #175 on: December 12, 2024, 10:43:32 pm »
Is the "3 year price lock" really a 3 year contract?

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As your Altium Account manager, I’d like to discuss an opportunity to maximize the value of your off-subscription Altium Designer perpetual licenses.
I’d like to make you aware of and discuss a special program we’re offering to customers like you who have not had an upgrade path since we announced our transition to term-based licenses this year.
Here’s a quick summary of the offer I’d like to discuss with you:
•   A limited-time price: Get the latest and greatest innovations from Altium by leveraging the investment you’ve already made. 
•   3-year price lock: Rest easy knowing your renewal rates are locked in for the next three years.
•   Flexibility to retain your perpetual licenses: If you decide not to continue with the program at any renewal cycle, you’ll still own your existing perpetual licenses.
The offer is available until December 31st, 2024, so, if you’d like to discuss the details, I recommend we connect soon. If you’d like to have this conversation, you can:
•   Reply to this email to arrange a time to chat or
•   Put a time on my calendar using the link in my signature line below
Looking forward to catching up and helping you unlock the full potential of your Altium Designer investment!
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Offline asmi

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #176 on: December 12, 2024, 11:15:55 pm »
Is the "3 year price lock" really a 3 year contract?
They are offering a guarantee that the subscription price will not increase for 3 years for you. Basically, they are offering you to buy a new subscription license in addition to your existing perpetual one, saying that even if you stop renewing your sub license, you will still retain existing perpetual license. The question is - would you be able to work with files created by newer sub-based versions, with your older perpetual version. I suspect not, though I don't know for sure.

Offline thm_w

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #177 on: December 12, 2024, 11:53:16 pm »
Is the "3 year price lock" really a 3 year contract?
They are offering a guarantee that the subscription price will not increase for 3 years for you. Basically, they are offering you to buy a new subscription license in addition to your existing perpetual one, saying that even if you stop renewing your sub license, you will still retain existing perpetual license. The question is - would you be able to work with files created by newer sub-based versions, with your older perpetual version. I suspect not, though I don't know for sure.

You can work with newer version files, yes, this has always been the case with Altium.
If it is a parallel license then your old perpetual license would not get upgraded, would be too good of a deal if that is the case. Which is why I was wondering if its 3 year lock in.
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Offline rfindley

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #178 on: December 13, 2024, 12:09:48 am »
If it is a parallel license then your old perpetual license would not get upgraded, would be too good of a deal if that is the case. Which is why I was wondering if its 3 year lock in.

Unfortunately, it's not parallel.  According to my rep, you won't be able to use multiple version of Altium without a separate seat.  I asked what discount they could offer for a separate seat, and it was only 20% off list price, which is still about 2x what I've been paying annually.

If you do decide to go for it, I would suggest waiting until the day your subscription expires.  They're as brutal as used-car dealers, and that's the only day you're going to see their final offer.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #179 on: December 13, 2024, 10:56:38 am »
Quote
You can work with newer version files, yes, this has always been the case with Altium.

One of the great things about it. But that should be have "so far" appended.
 

Online tszaboo

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #180 on: December 13, 2024, 01:17:02 pm »
If it is a parallel license then your old perpetual license would not get upgraded, would be too good of a deal if that is the case. Which is why I was wondering if its 3 year lock in.

Unfortunately, it's not parallel.  According to my rep, you won't be able to use multiple version of Altium without a separate seat.  I asked what discount they could offer for a separate seat, and it was only 20% off list price, which is still about 2x what I've been paying annually.

If you do decide to go for it, I would suggest waiting until the day your subscription expires.  They're as brutal as used-car dealers, and that's the only day you're going to see their final offer.
Sounds like a lot of bullshit to me. I can start up a previous version of Altium, log in ,and use a license file whenever I want. On perpetual.
Don't let them "trade-in" your perpetual license. We have to tell those bean counters that we are not going to play that game.
 

Offline bookaboo

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #181 on: December 13, 2024, 01:51:07 pm »
If it's for full "Standard Altium" then it's actually a great deal, list price for that on the UK site is £3960 / year.

If we didn't already have 2x perpetual licences I'd take $1k a year in a heartbeat.

List price is $2k/year for the individual license: https://www.altium.com/altium-designer/licensing/individual
You can't get two of them.

Ah thanks, I never failed to get confused by their pricing.
 

Offline bookaboo

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #182 on: December 13, 2024, 01:55:35 pm »
Is the "3 year price lock" really a 3 year contract?
They are offering a guarantee that the subscription price will not increase for 3 years for you. Basically, they are offering you to buy a new subscription license in addition to your existing perpetual one, saying that even if you stop renewing your sub license, you will still retain existing perpetual license. The question is - would you be able to work with files created by newer sub-based versions, with your older perpetual version. I suspect not, though I don't know for sure.

We already have issues with this, one perpertual licence is on 22.x (can't recall which) and another was updated to 24.x (we were basically forced to re-subscribe in order to move the licence from another location), now the 22.x can't open certain files that the 24.x made.

It's probably only when certain features are used, but in any case the answer for us is that all devices are rolling back to 22.x
 

Offline hwasti

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #183 on: December 13, 2024, 06:02:58 pm »
You can work with newer version files, yes, this has always been the case with Altium.
Quoting finance bros: "Past performance is not a guarantee of future results"

So far, Altium has always allowed you to open files created in newer versions with older versions of the software, but they have not always allowed you to reliably use them in the older version. Over the years, there have been many complaints that the program misbehaves in strange ways when working on files created in newer versions. This is the case even when none of the newer features are being used.

Even if you ignore those reports as user errors, the files can only work reliably as long as newer features are not used. Why are you paying support if you cannot use the new features?

With this new offer, they have strong incentives to make future file format incompatible so you can not go back to the old version without losing all the interim work.

Right now, there are only two viable options for staying with Altium:

1) Keep your perpetual license and accept that when your support expires, you will be stuck permanently with the then current version.

2) Switch to time based license and accept that you are stuck paying Altium every year, and paying them whatever they demand, otherwise you do not get access to your data.

Pick your poison. Some times, a good outcome is not on the table and all you can do is to minimize your down side. This is one of those situations :(
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #184 on: December 13, 2024, 06:20:28 pm »
You can work with newer version files, yes, this has always been the case with Altium.
Quoting finance bros: "Past performance is not a guarantee of future results"

So far, Altium has always allowed you to open files created in newer versions with older versions of the software, but they have not always allowed you to reliably use them in the older version. Over the years, there have been many complaints that the program misbehaves in strange ways when working on files created in newer versions. This is the case even when none of the newer features are being used.
Yep. That is my experience as well. I have worked on a design (schematics) in an older version (19 IIRC), handed it over to somebody to create the PCB layout in a newer version and when opened with the older version all the 'do not place' markers are gone in the schematic. Very frustrating as there are many of those in the design!
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline jayk

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #185 on: December 13, 2024, 06:25:09 pm »
Talked to Altium (in the US).  Apparently the $999 is only for existing CircuitStudio customers.  New Individual licenses are $1985/yr, with no guarantee if prices will go up in the future.

Maybe will stick with KiCad for now.
 

Offline rgarito

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #186 on: December 13, 2024, 09:07:59 pm »
They "turned up the heat" today on their renewal message when I launched...  I wonder how desperate they are getting.
Interesting that they are now saying "Subscription renewals are no longer available" even though technically I have 18 days left.



 

Offline Someone

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #187 on: December 13, 2024, 09:24:40 pm »
They "turned up the heat" today on their renewal message when I launched...  I wonder how desperate they are getting.
Interesting that they are now saying "Subscription renewals are no longer available" even though technically I have 18 days left.
A similar message (that blocks access to things under it until you dismiss it) pops up every time you open a perpetual licensed instance. Do it our way or we'll annoy you about it forever!
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #188 on: December 13, 2024, 10:47:29 pm »
Yep. That is my experience as well. I have worked on a design (schematics) in an older version (19 IIRC), handed it over to somebody to create the PCB layout in a newer version and when opened with the older version all the 'do not place' markers are gone in the schematic. Very frustrating as there are many of those in the design!

Are you talking about variant markers? Those depend on user settings.
Seems to work for me, though I had to toggle the user setting first in 19 before it showed up. So its definitely a bit buggy.
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Offline asmi

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #189 on: December 13, 2024, 11:00:05 pm »
A similar message (that blocks access to things under it until you dismiss it) pops up every time you open a perpetual licensed instance. Do it our way or we'll annoy you about it forever!
Doesn't happen for me. But I still got about half a year until my update sub expires.

Offline nctnico

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #190 on: December 13, 2024, 11:27:16 pm »
Yep. That is my experience as well. I have worked on a design (schematics) in an older version (19 IIRC), handed it over to somebody to create the PCB layout in a newer version and when opened with the older version all the 'do not place' markers are gone in the schematic. Very frustrating as there are many of those in the design!
Are you talking about variant markers? Those depend on user settings.
Seems to work for me, though I had to toggle the user setting first in 19 before it showed up. So its definitely a bit buggy.
It is not the variant markers. Just 'regular' do not place (not in bom) markers (as part properties).
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline thm_w

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #191 on: December 13, 2024, 11:37:26 pm »
It is not the variant markers. Just 'regular' do not place (not in bom) markers (as part properties).

So the part property itself for "Type: Standard (No BOM)" changed to "Standard"? I didn't know it was possible to display that state in the schematic.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/altium/altium-exclude-schematic-component-from-bom-with-grapichal-cross-over/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Altium/comments/1ddkssk/auto_hide_3d_bodies_of_components_set_to_standard/
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Online tszaboo

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #192 on: December 14, 2024, 11:18:49 am »
It is not the variant markers. Just 'regular' do not place (not in bom) markers (as part properties).

So the part property itself for "Type: Standard (No BOM)" changed to "Standard"? I didn't know it was possible to display that state in the schematic.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/altium/altium-exclude-schematic-component-from-bom-with-grapichal-cross-over/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Altium/comments/1ddkssk/auto_hide_3d_bodies_of_components_set_to_standard/
I thought that's for parts that are placed on the PCB that are not BOM parts. For example trace antennas, capacitive buttons and such.
I think removing parts from pruduction happens always with a variant. Though I saw people use the software in a variety of ways, and maybe I missed something.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #193 on: December 14, 2024, 12:27:12 pm »
It is not the variant markers. Just 'regular' do not place (not in bom) markers (as part properties).

So the part property itself for "Type: Standard (No BOM)" changed to "Standard"? I didn't know it was possible to display that state in the schematic.

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/altium/altium-exclude-schematic-component-from-bom-with-grapichal-cross-over/
https://www.reddit.com/r/Altium/comments/1ddkssk/auto_hide_3d_bodies_of_components_set_to_standard/
I thought that's for parts that are placed on the PCB that are not BOM parts. For example trace antennas, capacitive buttons and such.
I think removing parts from pruduction happens always with a variant. Though I saw people use the software in a variety of ways, and maybe I missed something.
I didn't start the design; the creator used the 'not in bom' part property to mark components which shouldn't be placed (like option strapping resistors). To me this is a rather common workflow as option strapping resistors aren't really a variant as they won't be placed in any version. But maybe making a variant is the better option to use in Altium to have compatibility between versions. The project uses variants but I have not checked whether that information has survived across Altium versions. A big downside I see is that the same (never to be placed) parts will need to be replicated and maintained in all variant versions.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline Someone

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #194 on: December 15, 2024, 10:12:29 pm »
A similar message (that blocks access to things under it until you dismiss it) pops up every time you open a perpetual licensed instance. Do it our way or we'll annoy you about it forever!
Doesn't happen for me. But I still got about half a year until my update sub expires.
yes it is about the subscription being expired, here is the text:
"Subscription expired
This licence can't be used with upcoming versions of Altium Designer.
Trade in your legacy Altium Designer for the latest version.
Trade in ->"
 

Offline djsb

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #195 on: December 15, 2024, 11:19:43 pm »
I'm on 21.4.1 and I can use release 10 for perpetuity. I can do designs in Altium and import them into Kicad. I'm happy with using Kicad forever from now on. If Altium comes begging in the next few years they can forget it. They've had enough money off me as it is already.
David
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University Electronics Technician, London, PIC16/18, CCS PCM C, Arduino UNO, NANO,ESP32, KiCad V8+, Altium Designer 21.4.1, Alibre Design Expert 28 & FreeCAD beginner. LPKF S103,S62 PCB router Operator, Electronics instructor. Credited KiCad French to English translator
 

Offline hwasti

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #196 on: December 16, 2024, 02:43:46 am »
I'm on 21.4.1 and I can use release 10 for perpetuity.
Not for perpetuity. Only for as long as you can have a version of Windows that allows that version of AD to run.

Microsoft constantly "improves" the internals of Windows, which breaks old software and it seems to be happening more frequently in recent years. To use AD10 or AD21 in perpetuity, you will have to be able to run discontinued versions of Windows, which may not install on newer hardware and/or may require you to run offline due to vulnerabilities.

When will things break? I do not know, but unless Microsoft has a major change in direction, it will happen sooner rather than later.

Good luck.

KiCAD seems like a better option. But I am holding out for a few more years with my AD24. I am hoping they will add more features and move more towards an Altium like UI. Maybe it is just wishful thinking.
 

Offline aries1470

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #197 on: December 28, 2024, 07:32:09 pm »

I bought Circuit Studio because I didn't need full blown Altium Designer.
[/quote]

Hi 2N3055,
I wanted to ask for your experience with it, since on their website it is on "special" at  $495, $200 off, but just entered my details with a promo they have going for 40% off, but I think that that is for Altium, but no harm in asking when they contact me, right?
My question is, and to anyone else too for that matter, that I am still using the free version of Eagle and it still needs to dial home once in a while, to verify its licence once every 90 days or so. I have been using it since the early naughties, and would like to know, since it can import easily Eagle files, is it worth purchasing, and I do not care about "cloud" as I use it only a few times in a month every quarter or so, so a total of maybe 1 month in a whole year.

I need only schematic, board, bom is an extra. I use "SamacSys" (Component Search Engine) for parts that I do not have and it works great and also another website - SnapEda - and they both output Altium lib's too.

TIA everyone.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #198 on: December 28, 2024, 08:04:34 pm »
I used CircuitStudio to design a resonably sophisticated product. I'd otherwise have done it in Proteus so it was a bit of a learning experience too. After having done it, though, I wouldn't go back for new projects.

It has the flavour of adult Altium but the GUI is quite different. Nevertheless, if you're au fait with CS then AD is just a matter of learning menus and toolbars rather than the ribbon that was once the rage. Oh, and the extra features. The guts of it are there, though, and things like design rules are essentially the same.

If you want to get into the Altium style and have little money then CS might be the way to do it legally. But bear in mind it is a dead product and any bug you find won't be fixed. It may or may not work on future OS upgrades (though I guess that's the same with Eagle, now). It's also artificially limited by slowing down when the project gets big enough for them to think you should be using AD. Don't know what that limit is (it's apparently not fixed but a gradual thing) and I don't think I've hit it yet.

I'd suggest you get a trial of it if you can, and realistically anything different to what you've been using will seem terrible UI-wise. But I've used lots worse than this one, and few better.

FWIW I just fired up my copy I last used 5 years ago, and was pleasantly surprised that it Just Worked. Opened an old project and it felt OK - I could use this to do stuff, I reckon. But won't because I ugpraded to AD when it was cheap :)
 

Offline Smokey

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Re: Altium is killing off perpetual AD
« Reply #199 on: December 30, 2024, 03:38:48 am »
I'm on 21.4.1 and I can use release 10 for perpetuity.
Not for perpetuity. Only for as long as you can have a version of Windows that allows that version of AD to run.

Microsoft constantly "improves" the internals of Windows, which breaks old software and it seems to be happening more frequently in recent years. To use AD10 or AD21 in perpetuity, you will have to be able to run discontinued versions of Windows, which may not install on newer hardware and/or may require you to run offline due to vulnerabilities.

When will things break? I do not know, but unless Microsoft has a major change in direction, it will happen sooner rather than later.
...

Nothing a virtual machine can't fix :)
 
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